>> good evening keir starmer gives a very big speech today and says about the nhs it's reform or die. is he right.7 does labour's war on pensioners continue? because that might mean that the discount individuals get on council tax of the living on their own , of the living on their own, might go in the budget because he refused to deny it yesterday. and leader of the commons lucy powell, now appears to be launching an all out assault on myself and lee anderson being members of parliament and also appearing here on gb news. i haven't said a dicky bird on this all day, but tonight, let me promise you i will. all of that comes after the . news. that comes after the. news. >> thank you very much, nigel. i'm lewis mckenzie in the gb newsroom. sir keir starmer says the nhs is broken but not beaten, delivering a stark message after a report into the

health service. the review highlights ballooning waiting times, a&e delays and poor cancer care. speaking earlier, the prime minister warned there will be no more money without reform and said big shifts are needed to secure the nhs future. >> only fundamental reform and a plan for the long term can turn around the nhs and build a healthy society. that won't be easy, it won't be quick. it will take a ten year plan, not just the work of one parliament, but i know we can do it . i know we can do it. >> ukraine has called on the uk and us to lift restrictions on using western weapons against russian targets. during a visit by the foreign secretary and the us secretary of state. at a press conference in kyiv, david lammy and antony blinken praised ukraine's bravery but avoided committing to president zelenskyy's request to use long—range missiles for strikes

inside of russia. discussions will continue in washington on friday. harvey weinstein has been hit with new charges as the disgraced movie producer gears up for a possible retrial. his 2020 rape conviction was overturned in april after a judge allowed testimony from accusers not formally involved in the case. prosecutors in manhattan are now investigating new sexual assault claims as more women come forward. he continues to deny all allegations . the 17 year old boy allegations. the 17 year old boy has been arrested as part of an investigation into a cyberattack on transport for london. the national crime agency says the teenager was detained on suspicion of offences under the computer misuse act. it comes as tfl says some customer names and contact details have been compromised in the security breach . in a sign that major

breach. in a sign that major changes could be ahead for the uk's workforce, health and care work visas applications have plunged by 83% from april to august this year. new figures from the home office reveal dependent visa applications also dropped by 73%. meanwhile student visas saw a i7% drop, but dependents of students took a sharper hit with 83% decline in contrast, applications for skilled worker visas rose by 18% over the same time period . a over the same time period. a royal navy warship has seized £160 million worth of cocaine in the caribbean , intercepting the caribbean, intercepting a so—called narco sub in a joint operation with the us. hms trent, sailing around 200 miles south of the dominican republic, seized 2000 kilos of cocaine , seized 2000 kilos of cocaine, marking the ship's eighth drug bust in almost seven months and

taking to space exploration. two civilians just completed the first ever commercial space walk. billionaire jared isaacman and crewmate sarah gillies floated out from their spacex dragon capsule 400 miles above earth using experimental spacesuits without the usual safety of an airlock. the daring duo tested life support systems in the vacuum of space. now that the hatch is closed, they are safely inside . well, those are safely inside. well, those are your latest gb news headlines. more from me at 8:00. >> for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gb news. com forward slash alerts . com forward slash alerts. >> good evening . lord darzi was

>> good evening. lord darzi was a health minister when gordon brown was the prime minister. he produced his much anticipated report into the state of the nhs. it doesn't really tell us anything that we didn't already know. the health of the nation has deteriorated. spending is poorly distributed. waiting times have become unsustainable . times have become unsustainable. cancer care has declined, austerity hit the nhs hard. yes, of course, we've inherited a situation that was worse than we thought and there is a rising demand for healthcare, which is put down solely to the ageing population. now off the back of this. keir starmer picked up and gave a very major speech today. this was the key line. >> so its reform or die . >> so its reform or die. >> so its reform or die. >> now of course i agree with the sentiment reform or die. but let's talk about this in the context, shall we, of the national health service. starmer goes on and talks about the fact that it's not working. and as i said at the start of this, we all know that. no mention. no mention made at any point about

the harm that lockdowns did. no apologies from anybody in either party, actually, or anybody in the nhs. the fact we closed it down, the fact we stopped testing people for diabetes, for cancen testing people for diabetes, for cancer, for much else. and that's one of the reasons why we've got this enormous backlog and absolutely zero mention of the fact that the population is now 10 million people bigger than it was when tony blair came to power. it's as if we have these conversations, whether it's on housing, whether it's on health, whether it's on crime. and we've completely forgotten the impact that mass immigration and population growth has had on this country . and population growth has had on this country. but i wonderjust how radical is the labour party going to be now? wes streeting, the health secretary, wrote a piece in the times last year that i found really very, very encouraging. but willie's boss really let him put in place the

reforms that are needed. well, i don't think so . and here's why. don't think so. and here's why. here's starmer again from this morning . morning. >> so the problem isn't that the nhs is the wrong model. it's the right model . it's just not right model. it's just not taking advantage of the opportunities in front of it. and that's what we need to change. >> well, i don't agree with that. i think the model is wrong. i think the funding model is wrong. the principle of healthcare being free at the point of delivery, that's all anybody cares about. i don't think the labour party actually have got the guts to do it. so you tell me, is it reform or die for the nhs? farage gb news. com i think it needs to be far more radical than that. i'm joined now by lie—in, by lucy johnson, the health and social affairs editor of the sunday express. lucy, the point i was making there is we've heard some some talk from, you know, over the past from wes streeting about really, really big changes. did we see that today ? we see that today? >> no we didn't. and before they

were elected, he did talk about doing some radical reforms, including getting weekend work including getting weekend work in by the for the doctors. but he hasn't done that. he has paid them more about what they were asking for, and they're still suggesting they may still strike. and interestingly enough , strike. and interestingly enough, the darzi report that you mentioned earlier suggests that some of these other models are more expensive, and it's just not true that we have the netherlands and switzerland , for netherlands and switzerland, for example, that spend just as much of their income, annual income or the same amount on healthcare at about 11%. but they don't have waiting lists like we do, and they have high performing healthcare systems. so it's not true to say that this is the only model that works. there are other models that work better and that that spend the same amount. >> yeah. interesting. so what do you think is going to happen here? because i mean, he basically says there's no more

money until there's reform. genuine reform. but that will take years and it's just not achievable. he's going to have to pump in more money isn't he? >> well, they haven't really said what these reforms will be. the darzi report was very laudable in its aims , but a lot laudable in its aims, but a lot of them were very nebulous. and as you said before, we've they're nothing new. they successive governments have talked about prevention , but talked about prevention, but successive governments have tried to increase public health and improve public health. but nothing's really worked. and what we need to do is go out and trial things and see what works and see what doesn't. it's not just about poverty. it seems to be that in many countries, the ficher be that in many countries, the richer the nation, the fatter and the more unhealthy we get. although poverty is linked, he also talks about having a better it system. we know that in the blair—brown years we spent, we had £10 billion put towards a new. it system, and that was shelved by by the next government because it was too

expensive and he also talks about, just trying to put money from the hospitals into the community. so moving that and winter's coming , starmer has not winter's coming, starmer has not keir starmer hasn't answered the question that was put to him at conference today about what he's going to do in the short term. he seemed to dodge that. but good luck. if you're thinking you can move money or close wards or shut down beds and move money right now from hospitals into the community, because we have 7.6 million on the waiting list , it's have 7.6 million on the waiting list, it's going to be very tough. >> lucy johnson, thank you very much indeed forjoining us here live on gb news. i'm joined in the studio by well, he said he'd retired but i knew he hadn't retired but i knew he hadn't retired really. trevor kavanagh, former political editor of the sun newspaper and scarlett mccgwire, former labour adviser scarlett. there's no doubt they have inherited a very , very have inherited a very, very difficult position and i accept that and i understand that. do you really think they've got

what it takes to turn this around? >> yeah, i think i think they're determined. >> and i actually think wes will take on wes streeting the health secretary will take will take people on because he's he he's not worried about fights, possibly sometimes one felt in in the past too much. but actually, i mean, what they said is, is there are simple things that you can do. i mean , the that you can do. i mean, the thing that i do not remember a time when, you know, we were not complaining about agency staff and part of it obviously is about recruitment. and it's, it's, it's and that's why it was really important that you paid people properly. because, because the problem about the health service was, was retaining retention. now if we're talking about, public health. right. she said nothing's worked . actually, the nothing's worked. actually, the one thing that has worked was the smoking ban in pubs, much as smoking has gone down, not because of that. oh come on. well, well , it just happened to

well, well, it just happened to be at the same time. i mean, i mean people, people very, very much fewer people are smoking, fewer people are taking it up. we now have a vaping problem. but and so we do need they're absolutely right. we need to start talking seriously. but every time you talk about public health measures, i mean, you were opposed to the to the smoking ban in pubs. oh, totally. every time you talk about public health measures, you know, people like you go nanny state. but actually obesity is one of the biggest problems. no no no no. >> look, you know, i mean life expectancy in america is falling the richest country in the world. and it's falling because of obesity above everything else , of obesity above everything else, diabetes and everything linked to it. now i get the point . to it. now i get the point. there are preventative measures we can take that will make people healthier. but what i'm really interested in is the model, trevor, he says. the model, trevor, he says. the model is fine, but we can reform from within, you know, the strictures of that model. don't we need to rethink the whole funding model on how we do this? >> i was very surprised,

actually, to hear keir starmer say that the model is fine because just about everybody else, i don't know of anyone who thinks that the model is fine, including wes streeting, who made it very clear before the election that the national health service system was broken and needed drastic repair. the big question is the reform issue.i big question is the reform issue. i remember vividly interviewing gordon brown when he was chancellor, saying that there would be not a penny for there would be not a penny for the health service without reform, and there was no reform because the bma and other vested interests simply block it. and this is what sirjohn bell, the this is what sir john bell, the oxford regius professor of medicine , said today. and i medicine, said today. and i thought very eloquently that the bma block everything that they're not being paid a lot of money to do. for instance, there's this new injection to lower cholesterol for an entire year at a stroke. they refuse to administer this injection without extra payment. they want their mouths stopped with gold and that is the biggest problem. now all reform costs money, so

there's no way that even wes streeting with all the determination that you may feel he's got, is going to do anything without spending that money and paying the people who administer it a great deal more money and they're already being paid. >> so the bma are the new obstructers. >> there's nothing new about it. >> there's nothing new about it. >> i mean, the bma tried to stop the nhs and what did nye bevan aneunn the nhs and what did nye bevan aneurin bevan say? >> give them money. i mean, the problem is trevor's right. i mean , and actually that's that's mean, and actually that's that's one of the things we've got to stop is we've got to say, i mean, i didn't know about the cholesterol thing. it is completely and utterly ridiculous. and in the meantime, you know, you go into a hospital and people are working their guts out, and then you have doctors saying, well, i'm not going to give this this. i'm not going to give this this. i'm not going to give this this. i'm not going to give this injection that will save me work without extra money in their guts, out at the sharp end of the nhs. >> and i know to my benefit that thatis

>> and i know to my benefit that that is true . but the moment you that is true. but the moment you start drifting away from that sharp end , the life or death sharp end, the life or death element, you are into a quagmire of lost notes and bureaucracy and bureaucracy and people aren't working their guts up. >> yeah, i wonder, i mean, i just wonder if we look at the french model, it's kind of an insurance based model. they pay a little less than we do now in terms of gdp into health, their returns. if you believe the numbers on strokes, cancer and heart disease are very much better than ours. and lucy made the point. there are other european countries spending similar sums of money. shouldn't we? i mean, shouldn't a review? shouldn't darzi perhaps have considered maybe a different funding model would be more efficient? >> well, i mean, darzi looked and said, it can be fixed. it can be fixed. it's going to take time and it will certainly take money. but but i mean, if you look at if you look at the basic problems, right, it's i remember a gp saying to me, if you, if you stop the old people and the obesity, the hospitals would be

practically empty. right. so there are a lot of old people that we need to get into the community who should not be in hospital, they shouldn't be in hospital, they shouldn't be in hospital for their sake, and they shouldn't be in hospital because they cost they cost an absolute fortune , we should be absolute fortune, we should be doing we should be doing more , doing we should be doing more, more preventative stuff so that we don't have lots. i mean, the thing about obesity is it's not just fat diseases, but you have you know, hips, the heart, everything, knees, everything . everything, knees, everything. right? of course. and that's what is actually we are an unhealthy nation. and that's the problem with the state. you talk about the states. it's an unhealthy nation and what we've got to. so one of the things we have to do is we have to work out i don't disagree i don't disagree with any of that. >> but i just think we've got to rethink a funding model. i don't agree where the more money we, the more money we pour in, it seems, the less we get out. and when you think about it, you know, we've been spending 11 to 12% of our gdp on health over the course of the last four

years. go back a decade. we were spending 8 to 9%. well, you ask yourself that bigger slice of the national cake is the nhs better now than it was a decade ago? the answer? well, i think you all know at home what the answer is in a moment is labour's war on pensioners going to continue in the budget? are they going to take away the discount for single people on council tax? it would be called the widow's tax. and yet when starmer was challenged it yesterday, he give an answer.

time for a couple of your reactions to our nhs debate, janet says i've worked in the nhs for 30 years. the nhs model doesn't work. it needs to be scrapped, yes, but replaced by with something better. jerry says the problem with the nhs is there are far too many managers, so many in fact, that the only

solution would be to introduce another layer of management to manage the managers wait and see that sounds, doesn't it? very, very like. yes, minister. when they tried to reduce the department of administrative affairs, now moving on, it was very interesting yesterday , very interesting yesterday, obviously we've had the big row over the winter fuel allowance being taken away from 10 million pensioners, but a question was asked of keir starmer yesterday, which he didn't answer. he said wait for the budget. but it was could this attack on pensioners, as some see it go, even further, could it go to the single person discount? and that means if you're living on your own, you get a 25% reduction on the council tax on your property. and as a lot of speculation about that and worth noting, actually, while we're on the cost of living, be it council tax, be it electricity bills , tax, be it electricity bills, gas bills and all the rest of it, that keir starmer and rachel reeves, well, they're in a very, very good position because in their grace and favour homes, they will only have to

contribute about 10% of their income to cover all of their services. and their utilities. and actually, there's no prospect, even with the energy price cap rise, that that will go up. so some people say, well, it's one rule for them and it's one rule for us. scarlett you know, do you think this 10 million people paying , they're million people paying, they're paying, you know, they're not going to get their winter fuel allowance. the serious talk now about the single person discount, it could go even further than that. have labour just decided, you know what. the pensioners aren't going to vote for us anyway. of course they have.it for us anyway. of course they have. it feels like that. >> no. so. so if we're talking about 10 million pensioners, an awful lot of those pensioners do not need the £300. right. if it was taxed they'd lose a lot of it in tax. right the problem is that there is a, there is a narrow but very deep band of people who really , really are people who really, really are desperate, who don't have

pension credit. but actually but i mean , frankly, in britain i mean, frankly, in britain there are lots and lots of well—off pensioners. i mean, you know , i might be sitting with know, i might be sitting with two myself. but but i have many friends who who give it to charity. other people, you know , charity. other people, you know, i know one woman i don't know, i have read of a woman who buys a cashmere jumper every year for £200 with it, but the majority are not in that category. >> no. >> no. >> isn't actually the majority. the majority of the 10 million pensioners are okay. there is there is a band and that's. and i think , i think it could have i think, i think it could have been handled a lot better. and people and certainly a lot of labour mps are feeling very, very unhappy. >> but here's the funny thing, trevor cabinet, there are a lot of pensioners who've got small, not necessarily significant, but small private pensions that come in, which means they can't qualify for pension credit. therefore they won't get the winter fuel allowance. who are

going to find themselves for the next two years paying tax. yes, because all the tax bands have been frozen. i mean, do you see this as a war on pensioners? a cynical? >> well, it does seem as if labour has got it in for the aged somewhat. i mean, it's not just the heating allowance, there are suggestions, as you say, that the single parent single person discount there is, there is talk and it hasn't been denied about the bus pass being meddled with in some way. denied about the bus pass being meddled with in some way . and i meddled with in some way. and i think that some of the measures that, rachel reeves will bring in in the, budget on pension contributions, which is another attack. now, i personally think that the £300 a year which was gordon brown's way of winning the votes of pensioners , was the votes of pensioners, was wrong in the first place. it's a it's an anomaly. it's a, it's a subsidy which is always going to cause distortions. it would be much better if the money was simply added to the pension. i'm also against the triple lock

system for the pensioner. i think that that's a really costly anomaly. you need to focus on the pensioners, not on those 10 million people who might not need that sort of help, might a better way. >> two suggestions here. one, that you don't give the winter fuel allowance to those who are paying fuel allowance to those who are paying higher rates of tax. that strikes me as being quite a simple way of working out who can afford, you know, not to have that money. and the second one, why not tie the pension increases to average wage increases, therefore keeping in line the average working population and pensioners? wouldn't that be simpler? >> i think it would. and i think all of these subsidies and bungs or whatever you want to call it, bnbes or whatever you want to call it, bribes for the electorate , could bribes for the electorate, could easily have been made much simpler for the in the inland revenue. what did we call it, hmrc , and you know, the actual hmrc, and you know, the actual implementation of this decision by rachel reeves smacks of such appalling hypocrisy. when you go back over the period of time since it was introduced, when

labour's constantly harangued the tories for planning to get rid of it and indeed warned that it would cost the lives of 4000 pensioners who cult from cold and suddenly, without warning, without anything in the manifesto, nothing in the election campaign. it's gone. >> i have to say, sort of final thought on this scarlet sort of slightly more broadly, sitting there looking at the labour benches yesterday, with just a few weeks on from an extraordinary i mean, we can argue about the electoral system, but an extraordinary victory, the shine's gone off pretty quickly, hasn't it? >> yeah , but it always. >> yeah, but it always. >> yeah, but it always. >> don't you remember 97 when it was. >> no, no they were like the royal family, the blairs. >> they were amazed when it was, when it was, it was the single parent benefit. >> i mean, i mean there's all there's always something that's that's very tough. and i mean, i actually agree with, with trevor that the 300 should always have been targeted. i mean, it was it was ridiculous to give all

pensioners a and, and, and we need to target the money at the people. the thing about the triple lock is the reason you can't get rid of it is, is politics. i mean, i mean, of course, of course, you know, rich pensioners shouldn't have. yeah, absolutely. and there are an awful lot i mean, among the pension population, an awful lot of them are rich. but the, the ones who are poor can do nothing about it. i mean, you can't, you know, you can't go out to work. you can't. i mean that that is the and the point i'm making that not only are those in that 13 to sort of 15 zero zero £0 band going to lose. >> but those were small occupational pensions are going to be dragged into the tax system next year as well. i think something has gone badly wrong. in a moment. let's talk about defence. let's talk about our contribution to ukraine. i know that people are bored with ukraine, but i want to find out we're giving massive support to ukraine. but are we doing so at great damage to our own

defence? we've just had a general election and i have to say there was precious little talk of defence debates about how quickly the conservatives would get to 2.5% and spending labour saying they were aiming to get there. now there's a defence review and it seems very doubtful that we're headed towards 2.5%. at least that's the interpretation i get . having the interpretation i get. having watched john healey, the defence secretary, in action. but what i'm particularly keen to talk aboutis i'm particularly keen to talk about is the contribution that we are making to the ukraine war and whether that's damaging our own ability to train our own people. and what about our stocks of ammunition and artillery shells, etc? pleased to be joined by robert fox, defence editor of the evening standard. robert, we have trained an extraordinary number of ukrainians. 46,000. yeah. and i the other week in kent, i saw them leaving lydd barracks after

their training with their rifles heading back towards the front. i thought , crikey, what does i thought, crikey, what does that meant? what's the impact of that meant? what's the impact of that being on training our own soldiers? >> well, the nro reported that it has deprived a quarter of the training facilities that might otherwise be available for training british soldiers, but it's not quite as obvious as that, actually, in training, there has been a dividend because the british army has learnt a hell of a lot from ukraine and training ukrainians and the consequences are quite eye—watering in the implications for their own inadequacies. right. our army couldn't fight that kind of war. now because it's so problematic with drones and information and so on. they're underfunded and under—resourced . but the under—resourced. but the contribution as far it has gone has been quite good for ukraine. but it has revealed that we can get new equipment, innovative equipment into ukraine at speeds

so much quicker than you could ever possibly dream of doing for uk armed forces. >> and it sounds bizarre. >> and it sounds bizarre. >> it sounds completely bizarre . >> it sounds completely bizarre. it's an alice in wonderland world. it's full of paradoxes that we could do that for ukraine. and there is a real crisis in defence. and as you say, of course, that wouldn't come up in the general election, would it? >> no, no, no, no, it really wasn't discussed very much at all. but but also i mean, our, our, our, our stock of artillery shells is to down almost nothing. >> and we haven't ordered new ones as far as i could make out from latest checks. >> and did i see the other day that of our nuclear subs, that basically there wasn't one at sea? at one point a couple of weeks ago, the only one carrying the nuclear deterrent? >> but you're absolutely right. we need the hunter killers there. all alongside because we haven't built the built the deep docks. they've just accelerated one. and i think that this is ominous in view of what you've just been describing with health policy, don't expect too much from from the defence review.

they thought it was going to be like the glorious one again done by george robertson, who's now my age , for goodness sake. all my age, for goodness sake. all of how many years ago, 97, 98, it came out. it was seen as a great thing, tara. and the thing that george gets very sensitive about, it wasn't properly costed. none of them has been properly costed. there's a simple thing that most of the defence review is to look over the last 20 or 30 years, they've been predicated on at least 2.5% growth in the national economy . growth in the national economy. we're at one or under. yeah, it isn't there again. yeah. >> no, i mean it's extraordinary isn't it? you know , when you've isn't it? you know, when you've got the middle east as it is, you've got ukraine, russia, who knows what might happen with china, taiwan, and we've run ourselves down to this degree. how long will the defence review take? >> they say i'm looking at scarlett and trevor here. i wonder whether they believe it, that they will have a draft out by christmas. i very, very much doubt it because i look up the defence bulletins and find

somebody else has been brought in as a consultant to do this. i mean, the consultants will be consulting and reporting on each other as far as i can make out. and meanwhile we're not getting enough soldiers, men, women going into the armed services. they're all under recruiting . they're all under recruiting. >> recruitment is at a terrible low, and it's a you've talked about the ammunition. >> yeah. the equipment. yeah. but it's the ammunition and the people. that's the thing that they've got to focus on. and that's the thing. have you heard john healey talk about it? i'm afraid not, scarlett. >> you know, it was kind of labourin >> you know, it was kind of labour in the election campaign that we will get to 2.5% as and when we can afford it. pretty clear from what john healey is saying, that there's going to be no increase in defence spending. >> well, when we can afford it, i mean, there's no point in, in, in putting up 2.5% if, if, if we can't do anything else. i mean, you know, we do have to protect this country in an awful lot of ways. >> but priorities, though, isn't it? >> yeah, but but there are a lot of priorities for this country,

right? i mean, we have to protect the citizens who live here by giving them a decent health service as well. i mean, it's very important, but isn't but isn't. >> and perhaps i'm being a bit old fashioned here. isn't defence of the realm actually the single most important role of government? no. >> well, what i'm trying to say is, is it an emergency? what did you say? >> we're facing an emergency. you're way off on this. i'm afraid we nearly had a chapter five. well, it was a chapter five. well, it was a chapter five incident with russian drones armed drones flown over nato member territory, the romanians. i'm talking about the beginning of the week . asked beginning of the week. asked permission from nato headquarters. should they shoot the darn things down with their f—16s? that would have been an article five incident. mom said no, but i said, guide them, push the drones and see if you can towards an odesa. it's going to happen again. you say, oh, we've got to have priorities. do you know what? do you know what nato allies are saying? that britain should contribute. if it's really going to you know, punch its weight, not above its weight .

its weight, not above its weight. it's actually about 3.5% of gdp. >> the interesting point here, robert, and trevor pick up on this. it's very interesting, isn't it, what robert said. article 5 of course being the clause in nato where we defend each other, we go to war basically. isn't it extraordinary that the incident that roberts just talked about is getting so little national debate, let alone politicians, but the media aren't talking about it either. >> no. and i think that robert's point that this is an emergency is absolutely true. and it may not have been an issue in the last election, but i suspect it's going to be a major issue by the time of the next election. and maybe very much soonen election. and maybe very much sooner. and i think that we've been still capitalising on the fall of the iron curtain, the berlin wall and all the rest of it. oh, the peace dividend, peace dividend. we've been living off that peace dividend for 25 years. and this is actually very serious indeed because putin is watching all of the things that are and not just putin, the chinese and so on, iran and korea. so they're

looking at the weakness of the west. and we are one of the weakest of the west. i mean, we keep criticising germany and the european union, but we're no better. we've got no training, no weapons and no new coming, no incoming recruits. no, no. >> well, i have to say, i find, as i say, not just the lack of priority in a general election on this very important subject. depressing, but the lack of media debate. robert. of course you do. your bit to try and wake everybody up on this, and we thank you for coming in, my what the farage moment of today was the farage moment of today was the statement by the mayor of london, sadiq khan, who says, wait for it. i'm not making this up. that prisoners who've been released should jump the housing queuein released should jump the housing queue in london. yes, jump the social housing queue and go right to the front, because that's the way they become better people. good policy trevor. >> well it's fantastic. i mean, no wonder they're jumping for joy no wonder they're jumping for joy and breaking out the champagne and saying they'll vote labour forever. i mean, if

you're going to jump the queue as a convicted , wife abuser, as a convicted, wife abuser, drug pedlar , you name it, drug pedlar, you name it, i mean, some very serious crimes have been committed by the people are coming out early. none of them are likely to find an occupation. they're going to be homeless and they're going to return to crime very quickly. but it's the ones who are to prone the really violent crimes that we must worry about. and i can't imagine, frankly, that the people who are actually already at the top of the queue are going to be very happy about being jumped by some of these guys. i mean, scarlett of course, it's labour bashing time because they're in government and i know, we know that's how it works. >> but it is a mad statement, isn't it? >> okay, what he meant and what we both know is there is a real problem with with offenders going back. right. and re—offending. and one of the reasons that they reoffend is because they've got nowhere to live. they they can't get jobs now, we're not talking actually about violence. most people in

prison are pathetic, right? they're not violent. they just actually can't manage the world. and so they come out. they they they do petty crimes again. they go back in and it goes on and on and on. there is absolutely no question that i mean, i wish the violent people had not been let out, but those are the people he's talking about is how actually to begin to get our prison system working so that we don't have re—offending. and one of them is to give people lives when they get out and that's what he meant. and he certainly wasn't trying to put all these white. >> well, i tell you what, it came across very, very badly. >> all i can say on this subject is, you know, one of the people let out of one of those northern prisons had 109 previous convictions. now, these were for non—violent crimes. but just think of the amount of misery that one individual has heaped on that number of people over all of those years running their shops, running their businesses. and i'm all for prison being

about rehabilitation. i'm all. i'm all for training scarlett in prison and trying to help people genuinely to learn a skill that they can use when they come out. but when it comes to serious repeat offenders , frankly, we repeat offenders, frankly, we need to build more prisons and put them away for a very, very long time. that's my view now in a moment, it would appear that lucy powell, the leader of the house of commons, is coming for me and lee anderson. they are suggesting that as an elected member of parliament, if i'm here talking to these good people on gb news, that somehow thatis people on gb news, that somehow that is a conflict of interests, they're coming after us. i haven't seen a dicky bird

will. i am not a winger. i am not a whiner. i'm a very happy, jolly, positive person who's always looking forwards. but excuse me, if you will, i'm going to have a little whinge. so there are 26 house of commons committees, 26

of them. and would you believe that the five members of parliament elected for reform uk, each of whom have 800,000 voters behind them? not one of us. not one of us is on the 26 committees. no, we've been gotten rid of. and today, lucy powell, who is leader of the house, has set up a new committee, a new modernisation committee. when you hear that word, you should always have a slight shiver down the spine. and she herself, unusually, is going to chair this committee. it has 14 members. nine of them are labour. and i tell you what they're really going for. they're talking about second jobs. but in particular what they're talking about is broadcasting . and it says the broadcasting. and it says the committee will consider what advantages , if any, outside paid advantages, if any, outside paid engagements such as media appearances, journalism and speeches furnished to the public versus potential conflicts of interest ? well, folks, i want to interest? well, folks, i want to tell you this . i don't see any

tell you this. i don't see any conflict of interest between being an mp and coming here three evenings a week for an houn three evenings a week for an hour. and by the way, if there are crucial votes, i just won't be here. i don't see any conflicts of interest whatsoever. in fact, i might make an argument that's slightly different that i'm here with a panel of people . some agree with panel of people. some agree with me, some disagree with me. we have open debate. i'd like to think that through programs like this, what we actually do is take what's really happening in politics and bring it to a bigger audience. so i think it's complementary. so all i can say to lucy powell is this really affects lee anderson and myself. and if you're coming after us and think you can bully us, you've picked on the wrong people. i'm not going anywhere . people. i'm not going anywhere. if you want to martyr me, please have a go. so what about this conflict of interest, trevor? i know we wouldn't have thought years ago that mps would be doing broadcasting, but mps have always written for newspapers , always written for newspapers, haven't they? >> absolutely. and this new

modernisation committee has a slightly sinister orwellian or cromwellian , tang to it. i think cromwellian, tang to it. i think that there's going to be a lot more coming out of that modernised modernisation committee, which we aren't ready for , and i think that the target for, and i think that the target for, and i think that the target for this is quite certainly the right of centre politicians . and right of centre politicians. and where where would they be pointing if david lammy was still on lbc for instance? and i think that it's not just right wing politicians or people like yourselves who appear on gb news. i think it's gb news thereafter as a voice, which is an uncomfortable, amplification of many people in this country's political point of views. and i think you actually summed it up there that this is a more valuable way for people like yourselves who get very little in the way of oxygen in the house of commons. to get your point across on a more broader spectrum. >> and yes, it's a channel that has an opinion. but, >> and yes, it's a channel that has an opinion . but, scarlett, has an opinion. but, scarlett, you know, we invite everyone to

come on and say and say their piece. >> and i'm always in a tiny minority, right? because i'm always 150 over 50 is not bad, is it ? my nigel, you disagree is it? my nigel, you disagree with me? trevor disagrees with me . come on. no, but actually, ho. >> no. >> let's put your argument with respect. >> you. >> you. >> you. >> you do always, always. >> you do always, always. >> lee anderson doesn't. lee anderson has lefty in the corner, which is why i refuse to go on his show anymore. >> but that's lee. but yeah. >> but that's lee. but yeah. >> yeah, because i'm supposed to take a joke, but the right can't. no, seriously , i'm very can't. no, seriously, i'm very old fashioned. i believe that an mp is a proper job, i think. how mp is a properjob, i think. how much do you get paid? 94,000 a yeah much do you get paid? 94,000 a year. yeah, 94, which i think is perfectly reasonable. >> how many hours a week should know? >> and i think i think it should be a full time job. and i just think that that's a full time job. full time job is anything up to 100 hours a week, you know that. i mean, you know that lots and lots of lots and lots of people working, i think i thought, i thought, i thought the labour party wanted us to have fridays off and work from

home and do a four day week. no, the labour party actually knows that people work very hard and just because, quite reasonably, keir starmer says that he would like, when possible, to spend friday evenings with his family, which is something that he instituted when he was, you know, a very hard working barrister and it was his way of getting of marking out that time, which he doesn't always do, is fine. we on the left , we do, is fine. we on the left, we do, is fine. we on the left, we do work quite hard. >> i just think, no, no, no and hold on. >> and all this, all this paranoia, all this paranoia. jaw—jaw gordon brown thought that mps should just have one job, right? this goes long, long before gb news. >> what should i do with my company, which does a variety of things and pays money every month to 5 or 6 different people, depending on what services they provide for me, to help me do all the different things that i do, should i just get rid of them all? >> oh, i mean, somebody else can run your company, can't they? i mean, i don't i mean, it happens over and over again, right? that other that but but i just think

this, this thing about having to have oh i've got to have this and i've got to earn what is it. you earn a million a year. no. that's jobless. well that's what you said. you know, i read it in the register of interest. >> if you read the register of interest, you'll see my gb news earnings for august were. do you know how much? >> well, presumably almost nothing, because you weren't there. right. i was there, i was there, it was zero. >> anyway, we won't argue about that. there's a broader, more important point. do we want our members of parliament simply to be party lobby fodder? is there not some advantage in having a hand still in the real world? >> no, i think i think what they should also be doing is, is, is spending a lot of time in their constituency and, and finding out, you know, going out and about. out, you know, going out and about . right, rather than i about. right, rather than i mean, and of course, you go on tv programmes you always have done, frankly , nigel, long done, frankly, nigel, long before you were given one. sure, sure, sure. that's why we've all heard of you. the bbc gave you your time. >> there's lots of jealousy out there, too. >> i think there's a lot of jealousy in the commons, i

think. i mean, why, if a labour. let's just say for argument's sake that a labour mp as a general practitioner might be quite a good thing for he or she one day a month to actually be in the surgery to talk to people, to hear what's going on. >> yeah, no. and a lot of them actually, one of the things that mps do is they quietly write books. but but i think, i mean, what a lot of mps do is, is their chairs of things in their constituencies. they do a lot of things for free. right? i think that's fine. i just don't i do not understand why mps have to have a second income. >> what do you think trevor overall are? do you think labour are going to crack down hard on this? >> probably if they can get away with it. and i think they are in a position where they can get away with almost anything at the moment. i think your point about gps is quite interesting because what do they do in the national health service for medical practitioners who want to do some private work on the side, they allow them to do it and they allow them to do it and they they allow it, and they have allowed it for a very long

time in order to make the nhs work . what's the difference? not work. what's the difference? not much. none. >> not much. no. i think i rather agree . i don't know, rather agree. i don't know, jacob. you've been through all of this. well, there are two really important things. >> first of all, scarlett being an mp is not a job. it is an office. and the difference with an office is that you are answerable to your voters for how you've conducted yourself. and if they don't care if nigel is a presenter on a tv programme, that's their business. nobody else is. and the second thing is that you cannot change conditions of membership without legislation , membership without legislation, that it membership without legislation, thatitis membership without legislation, that it is by law that mps are elected , and by law that they elected, and by law that they are restrained in what they can and can't do. it is not sufficient to do this by motion of the house of commons. and if, nigel, you were ever suspended by the house of commons by a mere motion, you should do what wilkes did and stand in a by—election. and if your voters think your behaviour is good enough, it's good enough. and if

you stand in such a by—election, even if you're not standing as a conservative, which by then i hope you will be, i would encourage people to vote for you against these absurd rules. it should be for voters to decide whether the mp is good enough. and this is purely vindictive, to stop conservatives putting across a conservative argument. and i use a small c as well as a large c. >> well, jacob, i must say that's brilliantly put and in fact, i'd never thought that i should take you on as a paid political consultant. but clearly, but clearly i should, because, no, i mean, i meant what i said at the end of my little monologue on it. if they want to martyr me, that's fine. you will win. you will win a by—election. i mean, ijacob's point about it being an office is quite a good point, isn't it? >> look, i just think that we need to take being an mp seriously. and i think that if you've got a programme, is it now only three nights a week that it's not taking it very seriously? >> should i have weekends off as well? holidays? >> i don't have any come on. i

work all the time. yeah, i'm sure you do. so the situation was reversed. >> if i had votes, nigel stood in for me and did an extra hour. we did it. being an mp was my first responsibility as an office holder, and gb news has been completely understanding about this. sometimes i could only give 20 minutes notice that i wasn't going to be in and it was taken care of. >> we dealt with it and he does it brilliantly and in a moment you're going to get an hour of jacob. but first, and thank you very much to my panel this evening, as ever. let's get the weather with annie shuttleworth. >> it looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello. good evening. it's going to be a very cold night tonight with a chance of frost, particularly across northern areas, but also a chance of spotting the aurora or the northern lights across parts of scotland and northern england. we've got cold arctic air at the moment, but that will be replaced by atlantic air as high

pressure builds in for the last day of the week into friday. so that will develop clear skies quite widely. so a good chance of spotting the aurora. aurora as far south as northern areas of england, parts of northern ireland, too few showers still clipping the coast of east anglia overnight tonight, but for many of us it's going to be a clear, dry and cold night. chance of frost rurally just about anywhere away from the very far south—east towns and cities should be above zero by tomorrow morning though, and it will be a fairly bright start to the day on friday. the sunshine still got some warmth to it and the winds will be much lighter tomorrow morning, so it should still feel fairly pleasant. first thing across coastal areas there is still a risk of the odd shower and more in the way of cloud, particularly as we look further north and west to parts of western scotland, northern ireland, where there is a greater risk of a few showers first thing tomorrow as those westerly winds are bringing in the next weather front through friday afternoon, that will spread into parts of northern ireland, western scotland turning the sunshine much hazier as we head towards lunchtime. but elsewhere across the uk it's

going to be actually a dry and fine day . a much more settled fine day. a much more settled day to come tomorrow compared to today. less of a risk of any of those showers rattling through. it won't feel too bad in the sunshine. temperatures are still below average, but it's definitely warmer than it has been lately and it will become even warmer as we head into saturday as well as we pick up that westerly wind more widely. still potentially a fairly chilly start, though across parts of england and wales, but it's quite windy and wet weather will push into parts of western scotland, northern ireland through saturday and we'll see the rain persist here all the way through until saturday evening, and then when it will sink further south into more central areas, with further wet weather to come early next week across the north by a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight, the government spending watchdog has confirmed what we all expected owing to low birth rates and net zero policies the western world is facing bankruptcy. meanwhile, the government nhs review has revealed that in spite of record funding, the system has failed. i'll be speaking to a frontline paramedic in a moment. a new committee has been set up to assess whether mps having second jobs is in the public interest, as nigel did earlier tonight. i will be speaking out. plus, state of the nation book club returns with conservative philosopher madsen pirie as he publishes his latest book, the philosophy of conservatism, and, most excitingly of all, somerset beat surrey by 111 runs at taunton, state of the nation starts now . starts now. i'll also be joined by my most intellectual panel, gb news senior political commentator

nigel nelson, and the journalist and conservative