£50,000 each. by the time they reach pension age. so what do we do with that information? the prime minister is in washington, d.c, right now, where the west is threatening action to support ukraine. that russia would view as extremely

ukraine. that russia would view as extrenthat's all to come in anyway. that's all to come in the next hour. don't go anywhere. first, though, the very latest news headlines with tatiana sanchez. >> bev turner. thank you. the top stories from the gb newsroom. a man from sunderland has become the first person to be convicted of riot in the city following the recent disorder across the country. kieran usher admitted to charges at newcastle

crown court after cctv footage captured him, leading violence dunng captured him, leading violence during the sunderland riots on the 2nd of august. footage showed the 32 year old masked throwing missiles at police and inciting others to join the chaos. the violence caused significant damage to local businesses and forced police to briefly retreat. seven men who committed a string of child sex abuse offences against two teenage girls in rotherham have been jailed for a total of 106 years. the men were all convicted after a nine week trial, which was the result of an investigation by the national crime agency called operation stonewood. the victims, who were aged between 11 and 16 at the time of the offences and were both in care, were groomed and often plied with alcohol or cannabis before being raped or assaulted. they would often be collected by their abusers from the children's home where they lived at the time. over the course of the hearing, the seven men were handed jail sentences between 7 and 25 years. bbc

presenter jay blades has between 7 and 25 years. bbc presenterjay blades has been presenter jay blades has been charged with engaging in controlling or coercive behaviour towards his estranged wife. court documents reveal his charges include physical and emotional abuse. the 54 year old appeared in court this morning and he will appear in court again on the 11th of october. russia's claims against six british diplomats of espionage and sabotage are completely baseless, according to the foreign office. the fsb security service claims the diplomats actions prompted the response amid what it called numerous unfriendly steps by the uk. it comes as the prime minister, sir keir starmer, meets president joe biden in washington to discuss ukraine's request to use western weapons on russian soil. concerns over escalation have delayed approval for ukraine's use of ballistic missiles. what would have been the uk's first coal mine in 30 years is now in legal limbo, as planning

permission has been quashed by the high court. climate campaigners argued the decision to grant planning permission for the whitehaven coal mine in cumbria smacked of hypocrisy and contradicted the uk's climate commitments. the government had withdrawn its defence, but developer west cumbria mining still contested the claim. however, in today's ruling, the judge said giving the go ahead for the development was legally flawed. the prison population in england and wales has dropped by over 2000. in just one week following the start of the government's early release scheme. today's figures are the first to be published since labour's plan took effect, reducing the number of prisoners to just over 86,000, down from 88,500 under the scheme implemented. this week. about 1700 inmates were freed who had served 40% of their sentences. on the 22nd of october, it'll be the turn of those with sentences of five years or more. but the government insists that won't apply to the most serious

offenders, like killers, rapists and terrorists . robert jenrick and terrorists. robert jenrick is proposing to drastically limit the number of migrants entering the country. the leading candidate for the conservative party leadership told gb news political editor christopher hope that he wants to see a cap of just a few thousand people per year. if the conservatives win the next election. he discussed what he called a more controlled and restrictive approach to immigration, except that what i'm arguing for will not be plain sailing. >> it requires a big change in our economy , in our public our economy, in our public services, but it is the right thing to do to get a gang of thousands, could it, could it? >> and net figure. >> and net figure. >> well, i think we'd have to give that careful thought. but my point is that it should be in the tens of thousands or lower. >> and the former us president donald trump says he's done debating and won't participate in another head to head before the november election , despite the november election, despite polls showing kamala harris won their first face off. several top republicans said harris came

out on top with one poll showing 53% of voters agree. over 67 million viewers tuned in for that debate, but harris insists voters deserve a rematch, calling for another round. however, the majority of registered voters believe one debate was enough , and those are debate was enough, and those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm tatiana sanchez. now it's over to bev turner for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> very good evening. welcome to dewbs& co. it is me bev turner in this evening for michelle dewberry. we've made it to friday night. now they tell me to bring a drink at the end of the show today. frankly, it's the show today. frankly, it's the only reason i'm here. i've got bill rammell with me and lord daniel moylan. i want to get you involved at home. of

course. gbnews.com/yoursay before we get stuck in, though, gentlemen, to our first big debate. good and bad news. good news, daniel, is that the prison population in england and wales has dropped by 2188 people in a week. the bad news is, we've got 2188 criminals on the streets. bill, we had no we had no alternative, really. >> i think of all the things the tories left us with, this is the most indefensible. sunak was repeatedly warned by his justice secretary either to build more prison places or agree to early release. he did neither and he left this problem for us. let's hear what robert jenrick said. >> just today. obviously he's the leader at the moment to be the leader at the moment to be the next head of the conservative party. >> i think we should be locking up more hyper prolific offenders to get dangerous people off our streets. i think what keir starmer is doing is very dangerous. you know, thugs and criminals are now being let out onto our streets and i predict that people could die as a result of these decisions. >> daniel, will people die as a

result of these decisions? >> well, i'm not going to be very popular about this. i think bill's just making politics out of it. the fact is that the prisons are full because we keep increasing sentences and we keep increasing sentences and we keep increasing sentences and we keep increasing sentences to not not because for any other reason than that people are screaming for sentences to be longer and longer and longer. now, what you have to remember about all these people who've been let out, these 2000 or so that have been let out , is that every single let out, is that every single one of them would have been let out in a few months time anyway. any danger that they represent to us the day would have been represented. we would have had to face that danger down the road. it happens every day of the week that people are let out of prison at the end of their sentences, or when they've served their tariff or whatever it is they're let out of prison. and if even if they're dangerous, they have to be let out of prison because they've been sent, sent. i mean, there's a group of people who don't get let out, but but they're sent a particular term. they have to serve. they come to the end of that term, they come out. so any talk about, you know, people die

on the streets. yeah, it's possible, but it would be possible, but it would be possible just as much down the road a few months down the road anyway. so you're actually so i think the sentences are far too long. they have got longer and longer and longer. they do not serve any purpose. most of them . serve any purpose. most of them. and we need to rethink what we're doing and go back to having the sort of sentencing regime we had 10 or 20 years ago. crime has not come down as ago. crime has not come down as a result of this sentencing. there's no evidence that this has resulted in less crime, because there's no evidence that reoffending rates have fallen as a result of longer sentences . a result of longer sentences. >> there's an argument for that, daniel. but, you know, i'm not playing politics with it. you are. this is a crisis that we faced. if we hadn't agreed to the early release scheme, then people who are arrested for very, very serious offences there wouldn't have been a prison place for us. and that is a problem left to us by sunak. >> it's not a problem is not a thatis >> it's not a problem is not a that is not the problem. the problem is we have more people in prison than ever. 20 years

ago we had 45. we had about that and we've had that. we've had that. and your solution is to say the crisis has been left because he didn't build enough prisons. that isn't the right answer. if there's a problem in the system, it's a systemic political problem. that is about the sentencing that we've been imposing. that's the cause of the crisis. >> sorry, rishi, we should not have been building more prisons. rishi sunak, your party, your government agreed to build more prisons , but then they backed prisons, but then they backed off because of local opposition. >> so what? and does local opposition not actually matter to you? you'd override local opposition? >> yes, i would in terms of prison places, that's national strategic priorities. >> you just dial the postcodes in where you put it and then people can respond as they think appropriate. >> so this is just so interesting, isn't it? so, daniel, as somebody from the conservative party you're saying that we don't need more prisons. we don't need such long sentences. and i've got bill rammell former labour mp here saying we need more prisons and we need tougher sentences. >> well, that happened because

you know, tony blair, tony blair caused all of that. the labour party had a proud history of commitment to penal reform going through the 50s. 60s and 70s and so on. then tony blair comes along and says, tough on crime, tough on the cause of crime. and all we've heard from labour party since then , from 1997, party since then, from 1997, from david blunkett on is lock em up, lock em up, longer sentences. you know why ipp sentences. you know why ipp sentences dpp sentences? >> because we learn from our mistakes and we listen to people . mistakes and we listen to people. and there is a responsible demand from people that they want. people who commit serious crimes to be locked up. and we faced a crisis where if we hadnt faced a crisis where if we hadn't agreed to early release, we wouldn't have been able to lock up. serious. >> what do you do? what do you achieve? but the reason these prisoners were released early was off the back of the riots in response to the southport killings. it's easy to forget that. no, no, no no no no, we agreed early release before then. really? yeah because okay. well then it's a terrible comms performance from labour in that case because to the british pubuc

case because to the british public it looks like there was the stabbings in southport. there were the riots which keir starmer wrote off as being far right protesters in a most unbelievably simplistic assessment of that situation, 900 of those people were arrested. a lot of them went to prison. some of them for putting things on facebook bill that were stupid, tweets they deleted. and yet we've seen this week champagne swilling thugs coming out into car parks and celebrating their release. if this was all planned already, it's landed horribly within days of the general election. >> shabana mahmood, the justice secretary, announced. we were facing such a crisis in terms of a lack of prison places that we would have to agree to early release, and if we hadn't done that, you know, if we hadn't acted responsibly, then people arrested guilty of really serious crimes, we wouldn't have been able to put them behind bars. that is not something that any responsible government can do. now, you know, in terms of daniel's argument, i think there's a debate to be had about

there's a debate to be had about the length of prison sentences for people who commit lesser crimes. but you do that in the longer term. you don't do it when you face a crisis like the new government was facing. >> and can we please everybody of every political persuasion? talk about making sure that when people come out of prison they don't reoffend, that if anything comes out of this debate about prisons, it has got to be i totally agree, and you know, that goes back decades. >> 30% of people who come out of prison reoffend. and, you know, the overcrowding crisis contributes to that because rehabilitation education programs within prison are not able to take place and people come out and they just they've got to take these bad people and send them out as good as we can make them. >> surely. right. that wasn't meant to be our first debate, but it turned into it. but let's move on to what was. it's low skilled migrants. we now find out have cost the uk taxpayer, or do cost the uk taxpayer £150,000 each. that's the migrant, not the taxpayer. this is according to new analysis from the office of budget responsibility. the report has intensified, of course , the intensified, of course, the debate over immigration policy

the government is facing rising pressure to reduce the number of low paid migrant workers. so what do we do with this information, daniel? >> now, i'd ignore it. yeah. first of all, it comes from the obr and i don't believe anything much that comes from the obr, and secondly, but secondly, even if credible , even if it was true if credible, even if it was true and meaningful, even if it was true and meaningful, there are lots of reasons why we need less migration into this country and why we should be taking active steps to reduce it, but this is not one of them. the main one is that we've built an economic model, which is overly dependent on importing low paid labour, and we have to break that on importing low paid labour, and we have to break that economic model if we're going economic model if we're going to, increase productivity in to, increase productivity in this country and actually this country and actually advance economically. and the advance economically. and the only way of breaking it is to is only way of breaking it is to is to cut off the supply, if you to cut off the supply, if you like, to the businesses, because like, to the businesses, because as long as they can get cheap as long as they can get cheap laboun as long as they can get cheap laboun as long as they can get cheap labour, they will not do the labour, they will not do the automation, they will not do the automation, they will not do the

investment, they will not do the investment, they will not do the modernisation which we need to modernisation which we need to do. and that's where the do. and that's where the argument should be focused and argument should be focused and that will benefit us all over a that will benefit us all over a period. and figures like this, period. and figures like this, which you know, say these which you know, say these figures which will just set off figures which will just set off an argument now already they're an argument now already they're being disputed already there being disputed already there people are arguing who's right, people are arguing who's right, who's wrong. some people are who's wrong. some people are saying they have no validity. saying they have no validity. they've made mistakes. they've made mistakes. everything else and all our time everything else and all our time and energy will be focused on and energy will be focused on arguing about those figures. i'd arguing about those figures. i'd ignore them when we should be ignore them when we should be arguing about the economic arguing about the economic consequences of low migration, consequences of low migration, what it's doing to labour, what it's doing to our country , what it's doing to our country, not just socially but economically. bill >> well, my starting point is that net migration is far too high and is unsustainable. you know, it's three times higher than when the last labour government left office. and one of the ironies of this situation is that when labour was last in power and we were within the european union, the majority of migrants were higher skilled and youngen migrants were higher skilled and younger, coming from elsewhere in the european union. we've now

got a much different mix, which i think does present a problem, but i think there's a degree of agreement between daniel and i on this. we do, for example , as on this. we do, for example, as yvette cooper has committed, need to review the eligible business sectors that can recruit foreign workers because i think they have become far too reliant on them. we need to educate and train british workers to take the jobs that are necessary. and this is the really tough bit. don't want to doom though, bill, and that's exactly where i was coming to. you need some welfare benefit reform as well because i will say it, there are some jobs that british people won't do . and i british people won't do. and i think that the care sector that needs to be changed and needs to be tackled and you need a living wage, do that though, i think you just said take them off benefits and make them go and work in the old people's home. >> well, i think you need i think you need some real direction to force people in that direction. >> but you also need to change the pay levels. one of the really important things we've done since the general election is to change the rules of the

low pay commission, so they have to take account of an eligible living wage that will drive up, for example, in the care sector, the wages that are being paid and make it more attractive to british people. >> would it make it more attractive though, daniel, if you paid care workers more money, would it make it attractive to a british born 20 year old lad who has aspirations of living an instagram life? is he going to go and work in social care? >> well, everyone has aspirations. there's nothing wrong with that. the fact is, i think you know , working in the think you know, working in the care sector is something of a vocation and it's either something if you're going to do it well, you're going to be devoted to it. but being a vocation doesn't mean that you're going to do it for nothing. and i think if you have a vocation, it helps if you're paid properly at the same time. so we need to find and i think pay so we need to find and i think pay is a really important part of this. then you need to sort of this. then you need to sort of start educating people to understand what the attractions of looking after other people actually are, the rewards that come from that. and it can be a real vocation. >> and one of the realities of

this situation is that without migrants, the care sector would have collapsed. my dad ended up in a care home, and without migrants, god knows what would have happened. yeah and also, well, not just migrants. >> it's the nhs as well, isn't it? it's got an enormous amount of people now you would say, daniel, then if we reduce migration, then the british people will want to do those jobs. they will want to be the doctors and the nurses and the porters and the cleaners. >> well, they won't be allowed to be doctors because the bma, the british medical association, which is their trade union, has put a cap on the number of doctors we're allowed to educate. so it needs to change. so that's got to go. i mean these these restrictive practices that are gripping our economy and our social sector here have got to go. we need to train more doctors at home and we can do it. the universities are available, the places can be expanded, but the unions are standing in the way. >> what i'm interested, daniel, that you say this figure is divisive and it is divisive because there are those people who say there's too many people coming here who are low skilled,

and we do. our eye off the ball when we do. >> yeah. and i think you can take issue with some of the figures for example, it says, well, it's 150,000 over the course of your working life when an awful lot of migrants aren't here for the whole of their working life. also it says within the report that they put in more in taxes than they take out with services. so i'm a bit struggling where that figure comes from. but undoubtedly there's an underlying truth in what the report says that, you know, lower skilled migrants cost more than higher skilled

migrants . and that points at the migrants. and that points at the direction where we need to reform the system. okay. >> right. thank you gentlemen. great start. gbnews.com forward slash usa to let us know your thoughts. we're going to take a quick break because as starmer faces a threat of retaliation against russia, we're going to be debating. would you see sir keir starmer as a man to lead you into war? don't go anywhere

good evening. it is 6:23. this is bev for in michelle this week. lord daniel moylan, conservative life peer, is still with me and bill rammell former labour minister. okay, so the prime minister is in america to talk to joe biden. he's still the president. easy to forget. they're talking about lifting restrictions on weapons that could be used in the

russia—ukraine conflict. it's led to a swift reaction from the kremlin. six british diplomats have been expelled for allegedly spying on russia. let's go now to gb news political correspondent katherine forster, who is in washington, dc, this evening. good to see you , evening. good to see you, catherine. hi. so what's happening over there now ? happening over there now? >> yes. hello, bev from washington. well, the prime minister is back again. this is his second trip. he was here less than a week after he was elected at the nato summit in july. but the white house say that britain requested this trip and in the next couple of hours, he will be meeting the current outgoing president again for about 90 minutes. we're told, along with the foreign secretary, david lammy, the national security adviser, tim barrow, karen pierce, the i'm so sorry, catherine, i'm so sorry to interrupt you. >> we're going to go live to

donald trump, who's making a statement here. he is really something very special, john cruickshank. >> and he'll say a few words about , about two >> and he'll say a few words about, about two miles up the road. they're having some problems with slides into a thing called the pacific ocean. and a lot of people would like to hear about it and what the mayor is doing to get it remedied, and he'll take care of it. so, john, please . it. so, john, please. >> well, i was only expecting to come. okay, so donald trump is going to talk in just a moment. >> we want to hear what he says because of course, this is the first thing that he's said. this is his first statement since that debate with kamala harris. so let me ask you both here about the situation in america, kamala had an interesting bounce in popularity following that debate. daniel, only small depending on which media outlet you looked at. because of course, in america it's incredibly partisan, their media

even more so than here, but it certainly looks for the first time, like trump is going to be on to me on much more shaky ground than he was when biden was his in opposition. >> that's true. although it's fair to say that when he started out, he was on shaky ground against biden and biden was a credible candidate. and biden, in a sense threw it away completely through his debate with with trump up to that point, i think it was very , very point, i think it was very, very touch and go between the two of them. and trump was a credible candidate. so in a sense, he's been here before and he's recovered from that, whether he can recover or not. i'm not sufficient expert on us politics to be able don't don't ask me for a prediction and certainly don't put any money on it. if you if i give you one bill, i don't know whether you watch much of the debate, did you? >> trump got stitched up, didn't he, by the hosts. the abc hosts were so biased towards kamala harris. it was three against one. >> but look you know, a lot of the things that he was saying

were just simply untrue. and so was she. and no no no no nothing. nothing like to the same extent that the employment figures that trump left her with, it was complete lie. >> they didn't they didn't fact check her on that in terms of scale and substance. >> very, very different. and the reality is what i thought was really interesting was her tactics of just provoking him. and for someone who's going to be the leader of the free world, the president of the united states, who can get so rattled and get thrown off piste so much by that, what's he going to be like? well, we know what he's going to be like when he's sucking up to dictators as he the last time he was in power. >> well, he managed to keep them war free, unlike the democrats before him. we're going to hear what trump has to say now. he's in la here. he is a motto. >> but we never have to advertise because it's always loaded up with golfers, very good golfers. it's a world championship course. it fronts on the pacific ocean. as you can see, it actually fronts, you know, most very few courses

front on the pacific ocean. it's pebble beach and there's some others. but i always say i have the ocean. pebble beach has the bay. the ocean is better than the bay. and this course is one of the best courses anywhere in the world. and it's done really well and we've had a lot of fun with it. so it's been great. it's a major property, as you can imagine. we do also lots of weddings and lots of events . weddings and lots of events. and, in the ballroom, right behind you and people get married literally on a nightly bafis married literally on a nightly basis looking over the pacific ocean. so we have something that's very special. we're proud of it . well, thank you all for of it. well, thank you all for being here, before we begin, i want to express my support for all of the families affected by the landslides in rancho palos verdes . the slides are something verdes. the slides are something can be taken care of. this area is very solid, but you go down a couple of miles down, you'll see something that's pretty amazing.

the mountain is moving and it can be stopped. but they need some help from the government, some help from the government, so i hope they get the help. and i'm sure john will have the help. and i want to thank the mayor for the great job he's doing. i tell that to the people. what a great job he's doing. i just met with the mayor and especially want to salute all of the. >> so that's donald trump in los angeles, ostensibly holding a press conference, also appears to be hosting an advert for his golf course. >> so let's go to gb news. political correspondent katherine forster, who is in washington. catherine i'm so sorry to have interrupted you. we thought that we were going to get some sort of revelation from donald trump there. following his debate with kamala harris earlier in the week. now, the main event effectively is happening where you are. so this is biden versus meeting keir starmer , discussing the starmer, discussing the situation in ukraine. what's the latest ? latest? >> yes, that's right. i think in some ways, though, it's quite helpful that donald trump just popped up

helpful that donald trump just popped up because of course, come november the 5th, this american election is shaping up to be the closest in history . to be the closest in history. it's no way of knowing whether donald trump will be back in the oval office or whether it will be kamala harris, whichever one it is, is going to have a very big influence on what happens in ukraine. but in the meantime, our new prime minister is here meeting joe biden before he leaves office and discussing now , leaves office and discussing now, number 10 is very keen to say a wide range of international issues. ukraine, the middle east, tensions in the indo—pacific. but make no mistake, top of the agenda is ukraine and specifically vladimir zelenskyy's very specific request to be able to use our british, french storm shadow long—range cruise missiles to fire into russian territory itself. now there won't be an announcement today. we may or may not get an

announcement at the united nafions announcement at the united nations general assembly . i nations general assembly. i think more likely is that we won't know that permission has been given until those weapons are actually deployed, because why would you want to signal to russia and give them that advantage? but clearly a very delicate situation , and we're delicate situation, and we're heanng delicate situation, and we're hearing all sorts of noises off yesterday. putin threatening the west, saying that if these weapons are used into russia, it would mean that nato countries are at war with russia and threatening to respond to that. also. we've heard zelenskyy today has been on x saying it's difficult to repeatedly hear we are working on this. while putin continues to burn down our cities and villages. so he's really piling on the pressure . really piling on the pressure. meanwhile, former prime minister bofis meanwhile, former prime minister boris johnson, remember him, has

beenin boris johnson, remember him, has been in kyiv today meeting zelenskyy and he's been saying that it's obvious that ukraine should be able to use these weapons. grant shapps , the weapons. grant shapps, the former defence secretary, also wading in saying this is a defining moment for supporting democracy , a very difficult and democracy, a very difficult and delicate situation. >> it really is. thank you very much . katherine forster there in much. katherine forster there in washington, dc. let's let's let me ask you both about this, daniel, just, just react to that because this this could be the moment at which history changes forever. it's no exaggeration to say that if we allow zelenskyy to use these missiles into russia, putin has been very, very clear. he said this the use of these strikes, these these long—range precision systems is only possible with the use of satellite intelligence that ukraine does not have. this data

is only available from the eu and the united states, from nato satellites . he said. it will satellites. he said. it will mean nothing short of the direct participation of nato countries in war with, in a war with, in the war in ukraine, and it would mean that nato countries, the united states, are at war with russia. >> yeah. well the nato countries have been involved in the war in ukraine almost from the beginning . and he has , bullied beginning. and he has, bullied and blathered about that from the beginning. and there is a simple solution to it, which is that he shouldn't have started the war. and he needs to withdraw from ukrainian territory . now we can find ways territory. now we can find ways of making that as easy for him as we possibly can if necessary. but that's what he needs to do because the alternative is , and because the alternative is, and this is equally a threat to the west, is that this war continues and continues, and that ukraine, as a country just bleeds out in front of our eyes and that putin effectively gets his way. and the threat expands to eastern

europe and beyond . and we're not europe and beyond. and we're not members of the eu anymore, but the effect on the eu as a whole and on western europe, it wouldn't stop at the polish border. there would be a debilitating effect on morale. there would be an effect on what people who remember the cold war would remember what was called finlandisation. as the eu loses all its, the western europe loses its its spirit and its confidence and starts to think always what the russians want us to do. and that would have a feed through to us and the rest of the free world. so it's absolutely vital. it seems to me that this war is terminated in ukraine's favour and sooner rather than later, but that that kind of that kind of, sort of assessment of this situation for me is going to just lead to more dead russian men, more dead ukrainian men, potentially more dead british men. >> and i just think the british

pubuc >> and i just think the british public don't feel they're just they're just not onside with this idea that we have to protect ukraine at all costs. we're edging towards a thermonuclear war here. no, i'm not hearing anybody talk about peace. >> i don't think we are. when you look at putin's statements, look, as a foreign minister, i've negotiated in moscow and i've negotiated in moscow and i've been diplomatically beaten up i've been diplomatically beaten ”p by i've been diplomatically beaten up by them. they are bullies. these are the tactics that they they undertake. what's important about the meeting between keir and joe biden is they will be looking at the intelligence and trying to work out what will really be the russian reaction if they launch the missiles. i think there is a case for what does okay. >> what does victory look like? what do you think? i find this fascinating, as you're saying, if putin gets his way, daniel, what does putin want? >> well, he he wants a broader russia that takes in the whole of ukraine. >> he's never said that. >> he's never said that. >> he's never said that. >> he's literally never said that. he's never said that. he didn't say that on the eve of the invasion. and don't be emailing in and saying, i'm a putin apologist, i want peace. i

don't i don't have any, i don't have any love lost for any of them. do you know what i want? >> peace. but you need to put pressure on the russians. they only stand. they only respect strength. so i think there is a for case these missiles being used, but very tight. kill russian people. >> innocent civilians. no, no, no, that's what will happen. >> no no, no. >> and that's what i was going to say. very tight rules of engagement so that you can only target military assets at the risk of them at the risk of us in this country edging towards war with russia. >> no, no, no, because that is the risk. >> at the same time, what we need to do is to get a dialogue back on track now, just before no one's saying that, bill. >> yeah, but hold on. just before ukraine went in to russia a few weeks ago, there were talks pencilled to take place in qatar. >> mediated. we need that dialogue to take place because this is ultimately only going to be resolved by a negotiation and a negotiation. >> and boris johnson torpedoed. torpedoed that daniel i don't think that absolute nonsense. it isn't nonsense. >> it is nonsense, not nonsense.

they were all saying, you know, putin and zelenskyy were just about to have a meeting and zelenskyy said, hang on before we agree to sit down, i'll just i'll just ring my mate boris and see what he thinks. >> boris. why did boris go? did bofis >> boris. why did boris go? did boris go over well? why did bofis boris go over well? why did boris go over well? why did boris go over? >> whatever boris, whatever bofis >> whatever boris, whatever boris might want ? i don't know boris might want? i don't know what he's what conversations took place, but whatever boris said or did, the idea that that promising peace talks between ukraine and russia were stopped because boris johnson said it's a bad idea, it's preposterous. >> that's not what i'm saying i am, i am no, no, i'm absolutely saying that that's not i think what that's what i'm absolutely saying. >> ridiculous. well, i'm absolutely saying that you don't know for a fact. and you can say that i don't know for a fact, but i know incredible to think thatis but i know incredible to think that is this issue is this issue or is it not one of those issues when you talk about when we talk about russia, we have to all subscribe to this orthodoxy. putin is evil. the west is good. it is that simple. >> no, it isn't that simple . it >> no, it isn't that simple. it isn't that simple. it's more complicated than that. but the

west is our home and we have responsibilities to our home. and putin is not necessarily evil. i'm not saying he's evil. maybe he has good qualities. even hitler had good qualities, but he has set himself deliberately on a course of aggression contravenes international law, invading a country that isn't his, claiming it is his. when only 16 years ago or whatever it is. he signed ago or whatever it is. he signed a treaty with ukraine in which russia made it clear that ukraine was independent and there was a treaty about all that. now that's all thrown away, and he's decided it's his country and he thought he could get it in a few weeks. >> but the minsk agreements would have would have helped to avert a lot of this had that been signed at the time. right. and america said, no, but you know, it's a proxy war. >> i don't want to talk about evil. but he's utterly malign. and if i go back to my time as a foreign office minister in six, seven, eight, russia was in a very different place. and it's regressed. it's it's, you know,

gone far more in a hostile direction. we need to drag them back. but part of the way you drag them back is with strength , drag them back is with strength, because that's all that putin respects , right? respects, right? >> i see that completely different. but anyway, listen, we've got to take a quick break. we might pick this up after break. don't go

welcome back to dewbs & co. lord welcome back to dewbs& co. lord daniel moylan is here. and also bill rammell former labour minister. we've opened the dewberry tavern early. we all need a drink at the end of a week like this. we were talking about russia, ukraine. but we're going to move on because you're both wrong. cheers. right. the decision to approve the uk's first coal mine in 30 years has been quashed by the high court. it follows legal action by two campaign groups, which argued planning permission contradicted the uk's climate commitments.

was this a mistake? are we bending to the green agenda bill? >> i don't understand how the previous government ever gave this planning permission in the first place. it's clearly going to contribute if it went ahead to contribute if it went ahead to a net increase in emissions. i understand to the extent of about half of the uk's whole, emissions and how it ever went ahead, i don't know, and i think it's right that the court has overturned it. >> so that would so it would add to the uk's emissions, our emissions compared to other countries are vanishingly small, aren't they, daniel? would it have mattered, wouldn't it, if this had been good? yeah, but it's about global leadership. >> and you know, we're encouraging the development about global leadership. we're encouraging the developing world. we are paying their minds. what like china. >> how sorry we're paying the developing world. >> how can we do that if we're if when we stop building them, they'll start building them. >> carry on daniel i'll just be very quick. >> first of all, net zero is destroying our economy. there's

no doubt at all about that. but more worrying about this in my view, is what you know, bill said. it's right. the decision should have been stopped. he's entitled to that view. it's not right. the decision should have been stopped by the courts . one been stopped by the courts. one of the legacies of the blair system is that we now we have lost all sense of judicial restraint or any recognition, any recognition. but if the blair constitutional legacy. listen. hear me out, is that there's lost all sense of judicial restraint. and it used to be the case that judges would say there are some things that should be decided by in political terms, by parliament. now, strangely enough, this one was decided because we actually had a general election and we changed the government from one that was in favour of it to one that was in favour of it to one that was in favour of it to one that was against it. okay that's how the system is meant to work. it is not meant to have judges coming in and making those essentially political decisions on trivial and narrow and legalistic and often process dnven legalistic and often process driven grounds. and it is absolutely disgraceful that this decision has come in the courts , decision has come in the courts, perfectly reasonable if the

labour government, because i see you can have two views on the subject of whether it should go ahead or not. perfectly reasonable for labour government's elected, having made it clear it's going to stop it, that it should stop it. that's politics. that's democracy. this is anti—democratic and it's anti—people. >> well, the government's removal of its support for the mine contributed to the court decision, but it shouldn't be a court decision. >> but it was a democratic decision. and if the court had decided the other way, imagine what what that would have meant for democracy. >> i'm just looking at all these. >> why are you putting up with it all? >> all these hippies on the telly looking like they've somehow they've saved the planet? bill but don't we have to also, i mean, i think the science on whether they're saving the planet or not is decidedly flaky. anyway but the idea that we have to lead the way and show the third world how to save the planet, at what cost to save the planet, at what cost to us and our fuel bills, we

will still be importing coal if we significantly move to renewables, we will reduce our fuel costs . fuel costs. >> and you know, the net zero economy is growing by 9% a year on the basis on the basis of taxpayer subsidies, we you , you taxpayer subsidies, we you, you and i have debated this before. if you look at the evidence, the pubuc if you look at the evidence, the public subsidy to fossil fuels is about 20% more than the renewables. of course, there's a subsidy, a subsidy, there's no subsidy, a subsidy, there's no subsidy to fossil fuels. >> there is a huge subsidy. just look at the auctions that were held a couple of weeks ago in the last week for the for the next round of offshore and onshore wind farms and the pnces onshore wind farms and the prices per watt or whatever. it's whatever, however it's measured being paid in those that go straight onto our bills. thatis that go straight onto our bills. that is a straight subsidy from the bill payer, which is effectively all of us like the taxpayer to those companies that are doing that, it is absolutely huge and it is crippling the economy. we are paying more for our energy than countries that

are really successful economically , economically, like economically, economically, like the united states. they think we're completely bonkers and we're completely bonkers and we're slipping down the league table of prosperity as a result. >> i don't believe you, daniel. don't believe me. one the source i was quoting was the house of commons library paper, and you know, across the parties at westminster, the house of commons library is credited for its credibility. >> 20% shut me up. i'm out of the debate. you're not interested. just shut me out of it completely. if you disagree with the house of commons library, you're a total idiot. so get off the stage. that's that's the message. >> well, i think it's more objective than you are, daniel. >> okay, gentlemen, i think we should go and take our drinks. >> i would like my drink after this. >> sounds like a fun place to be on a friday night. >> no, but we've got to take a quick break. >> we've got chris. chuck us a chris. >> daniel, we've got chris. >> daniel, we've got chris. >> and there's a we have chris. >> we're going

very good evening. we're just saying there's nothing like that first taste of champagne. oh, it's obviously it's cheap gb news. but, you know, right . news. but, you know, right. listen, we're eating, chris, because labour has confirmed a watershed ban on junk food advertising before 9:00. this is in order to tackle childhood obesity. bill, i have to say i all credit to labour for doing this. i didn't think they were going to make any sort of restrictions on the corporations themselves. >> yeah, and i think it's absolutely the right move when you look at the stats, 1 in 3 primary school kids leaves school being obese, obese by the age of 11, the biggest reason children are admitted to hospital is tooth decay. we have got to do something about this, and i think it's absolutely the right move. >> the only problem, daniel, is that children don't watch tv. they don't watch linear tv, they don't watch adverts to watch everything on their phone or on a laptop.

>> completely bonkers. i couldn't agree more. if there is a problem, we need to deal with it . this stopping me from having it. this stopping me from having this at 6:00 7:00 in the evening on the telly, which is what they're going to do, because i'll be, you know, the next thing. this is not advertising strictly speaking, but it's not paid advertising. but they'll say you won't be allowed to do that. ofcom will be round like a dose of salts next october to stop me doing this. dose of salts next october to stop me doing this . and i just stop me doing this. and i just don't think there are kids out there who are waiting and saying, you know that lord moylan. we want to be like him . moylan. we want to be like him. i just don't think they're saying that that is right. >> they're not saying that. >> they're not saying that. >> they're not saying that. >> they're not saying that they've seen me dancing on tiktok . tiktok. >> it's another matter. but not watching me on television . watching me on television. >> what you need to do if you've got a hotline to starmer, can you tell him what we need, please? we need sports facilities , swimming pools, facilities, swimming pools, tennis courts, skate parks . tennis courts, skate parks. you've got to get kids moving and off their screens. it's the only way you're going to get them, not you're going to get them, not you're going to get them thin. >> i think you need everything. yeah you know, when i was growing up as a kid, sport, recreation, physical exercise

was part of what you did every day of the week . now they're on day of the week. now they're on their phones all the time, and i think that's a retrograde step. but you've got to do this as well. >> and they don't walk to school. >> i know i'm the same generation. >> and look what it's done to us. >> us. >> you two fine figures of men we have here, i don't know how much time we've got, but i just want far be it for me to promote a show on another channel. but this is not just gb news it's a gb news family. and our very own christopher hope , our political christopher hope, our political edhon christopher hope, our political editor, has an amazing daughter , editor, has an amazing daughter, pollyanna. now pollyanna is 19 now. she was hit by a bus actually in west london when she was about two years old. it was an awful accident. it affected the whole family. pollyanna's grandmother was also killed in the accident. now pollyanna lost her right leg below the knee. she was like, i say, just two years old. she's become one of the country's top para ballerinas, and she's performing this evening at the homecoming for the paralympic british team. and it's going to be on the

telly on channel 4 tomorrow night at 530. so if you like gb news, you'll love pollyanna. so please watch it. sorry to whoever's on gb news tomorrow night. i shouldn't really have done that, but great story. it's a great story. an amazing woman. and the paralympics was fantastic. bill wasn't it? >> oh, absolutely. you know, the level of competitiveness, the level of competitiveness, the level of competitiveness, the level of fitness is absolutely fantastic. but chris hope's daughter is a real inspiration to all of us. she is, she is, she is. >> how's your ballet, daniel? >> how's your ballet, daniel? >> i my ballet is not particularly good, but i couldn't agree more. this is a terrible tragedy for the family that they've overcome. yeah. in the most wonderful way. >> yeah, yeah, they are absolutely amazing. right thank you so much. i'm so sorry i didn't get to many of your comments this week. as you might know, i'm not a big fan of technology. if you watch britain's newsroom and my computer this evening completely broke. so that's pretty much fitting end to the week. daniel. bill, thank you so much. i'll be back on britain's newsroom on monday morning at 930. but up next here's lee anderson. have a great weekend .

great weekend. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news . news. >> hi there and welcome to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news. following a topsy turvy week of weather, it's been a reasonable end to the working week for many of us and it stays clear over the next 24 hours. in the south, a chilly start to the weekend there, but further north it will be an increase in the cloud overnight as this weather system moves in. that's going to bring the thickest cloud and the more persistent and at times heavy outbreaks of rain to western scotland through the evening and northern ireland. however, the rain does turn lighter and more patchy through the night and by the end of the night, even in the end of the night, even in the north, it will be mostly dry, albeit cloudier and milder compared with how we started things on friday. the clearest skies will be further south and again temperatures approaching zero, so a bit of a chill in the for air southern counties of

england, parts of south wales into the midlands and east anglia. i think in main towns and cities. temperatures at 8 or 9 celsius in sheltered rural spots, more like the low single figures. however, for northern ireland, northern england, parts of scotland a very different story. first thing saturday 10 to 13 celsius with an awful lot of cloud out there and some outbreaks of persistent rain and drizzle over the hills of western scotland. otherwise actually eastern scotland seeing good shelter from that and some brightness coming through, and it's going to feel milder with the winds picking up from the southwest. meanwhile, for much of england and wales, a bright, albeit relatively cloudy afternoon to come, the best of the sunshine will be in the south with lighter winds, 18 or 19 celsius feeling perfectly pleasant now the rain that will increasingly arrive in the northwest on saturday night will spread south by sunday so that it's across cumbria, north and west wales. during the day . west wales. during the day. still some sunshine to be had in

the south and southeast and some brighter skies for scotland and northern ireland, albeit with a few blustery showers around. monday starts off drier for many of us and then increasingly sunny and increasingly warm through next week. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather gb

now. >> welcome to lee anderson's real world tonight on the show. he's back. he's a menace. it's matthew stadlen. he's going to go head to head with lizzie cundy and dame andrea jenkyns.

we've also got the godfather of hospitality and that's mr robert walton. but coming up now, we've got the . news. got the. news. >> good evening. the top stories from the gb newsroom. the prime minister, sir keir starmer , is minister, sir keir starmer, is due to meet the us president, joe biden, at the white house this evening to discuss ukraine's request to use western weapons on russian soil. ukraine's request to use western weapons on russian soil . and for weapons on russian soil. and for more on this, we can bring