i'm live from birmingham. what am i doing in birmingham? >> well, of course it is. the reform uk's conference. it is just finished live here tonight. what an atmosphere. i could have been forgiven, quite frankly , been forgiven, quite frankly, for at one point thinking i was at some kind of rock concert. concert. anyway, look, there is lots to discuss. nigel farage reckons that he and his party

are coming of age. what do you think to that? i also want to look at this whole democratisation of the party also as well. keir starmer, rachel reeves, angela rayner, they reckon they're not going to take any freebies anymore and also have you seen as well jenrick. he has been speaking out as well. he's had some harsh words to say about the future of britain, the culture of britain and so on. we are going to get into it all live tonight . sorry into it all live tonight. sorry i didn't read any of that article . all of that and more. article. all of that and more. but first, the 6:00 news headunes. headlines. >> at 6:00. the main news from the gb newsroom. the prime minister will no longer accept donations for clothing after the row over gifts. chancellor rachel reeves and deputy prime minister angela rayner have also

announced they will take the same approach moving forward. the move comes as labour seeks to put to bed a row about the prime minister and his wife, lady victoria starmer , accepting lady victoria starmer, accepting gifts, including clothing from prominent labour donor and peer lord alli. sir keir has accepted around £39,000 from lord alli since december 2019. reform ukip leader nigel farage has said the party should model its campaigning strategy on the liberal democrats. mr farage received a standing ovation as he took to the stage at reform's annual conference in birmingham. he admitted that amateurism had impacted the party at the last election and said reform could learn lessons from the way in which the lib dems won more than 70 seats in their campaigning. >> now, the liberal democrats bill branches the liberal democrats win seats at district,

county and unitary level. the liberal democrats build on that strength. the liberal democrats put literature and leaflets through doors repeatedly in their target areas, and despite their target areas, and despite the fact they haven't got any policies at all. in fact, the whole thing is really rather vacuous, isn't it? but but they managed with a vote much lower than ours, to win 72 seats in . parliament. >> one of mohamed al fayed alleged victims has said the billionaire businessman was highly manipulative. a survivor's news conference heard the former harrods owner, described as a monster enabled by a system that pervaded the business. one lawyer said the case combined some of the most horrific elements of the jimmy savile, jeffrey epstein and harvey weinstein abuse scandals.

natasha, who worked at harrods , natasha, who worked at harrods, said al fayed, who died last yean said al fayed, who died last year, was a predator who preyed on the most vulnerable . on the most vulnerable. >> these incidents lasted seconds, but the fear instilled left me paralysed. al fayed brushed off these moments like they had never happened, but i was always reminded not to mention them to anyone. he would know if i did. >> the hezbollah terror group has suffered another major blow after one of its most senior commanders was killed in an israeli airstrike. ibrahim akil is reported to have died when warplanes struck the building he was in earlier today in the lebanese capital, beirut. security sources said he was killed alongside members of hezbollah's elite, radwan unit, as they were holding a meeting throughout the day. more than 140 rockets were fired by hezbollah fighters into northern israel. the barrage started a

number of fires when some rockets landed in open areas of the israeli countryside. a campaigner whose niece was killed by her ex—partner , killed by her ex—partner, despite calling the police multiple times, says domestic violence victims need to be heard the first time they dial 999. raneem oudeh and her sister were murdered by masood's ex—partner in 2018. her aunt, nur norris , says those calling nur norris, says those calling the police for help need to be given the opportunity to be saved. some police forces will start embedding domestic abuse specialists in their 999 control rooms early next year. home secretary yvette cooper has promised things will change. >> victims of domestic abuse need to know that the police will be there for them in an emergency. that didn't happen for raneem oudeh when she lost her life. and that's why we're bringing domestic abuse experts into 999 control rooms like

this, to make sure that the emergency response is right. we saw when raneem oudeh called 999 four times on the night she was killed. no one came. we cannot let that happen again. so we'll begin with the first wave. then we want to roll this out right across the country so that domestic abuse victims can know the police will be there for them when they call. >> four members of staff at a welsh prison have been arrested on suspicion of assault and misconduct in public office. south wales police arrested the four, who all work at hmp parc in bridgend, following a series of incidents at the prison. the police have not said what the incidents relate to, but 13 inmates are known to have died at the g—4s run jail this year. finally, anthony glees anthony joshua says he's ready to take revenge on daniel dubois when the british rivals clash at wembley tomorrow night. joshua

admitted he was hurt by his younger opponent during a sparring session at team gb headquarters in sheffield in 2016. at the time , dubois was 2016. at the time, dubois was just 18 years old and still an amateur, but the power he displayed against the olympic gold medallist that day convinced promoter frank warren to sign him up as a pro. convinced promoter frank warren to sign him up as a pro . and to sign him up as a pro. and those are the latest gb news headlines. we'll be back in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gb news. >> com forward slash alerts . >> com forward slash alerts. >> com forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that, mark. well, i am michelle dewberry and you, if you're very observant, you might have noficed observant, you might have noticed i'm not in the studio.

that's right. where am i? i'm live in birmingham. i'll refrain from doing my brummie accent. i'll spare you that one. but yes. here we are. why are we here? well, of course, it's because it's the reform uk party conference. well, alongside me till 7:00 tonight. i've got my panel till 7:00 tonight. i've got my panel, the pollster and academic mark goodwin, and a man that probably never thought he'd see himself at reform uk's conference. the former labour minister, bill rammell. good evening to both of you. you're very welcome tonight in birmingham. yeah. from birmingham. yeah. from birmingham. i mean , i think his birmingham. i mean, i think his accent was 100% worse than mine. i won't even bring you into it unless you want to demonstrate it's better than yours. well, then, for the nation. >> i'm from birmingham. >> i'm from birmingham. >> i'll let you be the judge. you can all judge our brummie accents. but look, it's not just about us. it is about you guys at home as well. >> what's on your mind tonight? >> what's on your mind tonight? >> i want to talk to you about the reform uk conference. some of the things we've said, we've heard being said there. but i also want to talk to you as well about keir starmer. apparently he's not going to take any more freebies. neither is angela rayner or rachel reeves. and

also i want to talk to you as well about some of the things that robert jenrick been saying about england. the culture and the impact that immigration has. so get in touch with me all the usual ways. email gb views @gbnews. com tweet or text me . @gbnews. com tweet or text me. or of course, go to our website and you can chat to us on your show. but look, let's kick off then with no further ado with then with no further ado with the man, nigel farage, he's had a lot to say about his party and how it has been developing. let's take a listen to the infant . infant. >> the reform uk was has been growing up . we had the teenage growing up. we had the teenage tantrums, which were those that caused us harm in the general election, but we're now at a different point. the party is an aduu different point. the party is an adult and this weekend , this adult and this weekend, this weekend is when reform uk comes of age . of age. >> matt goodwin i can tell you

now , when nigel farage said that now, when nigel farage said that speech, i was in the room watching. he was talking about how how reform uk is coming of age. essentially this weekend is when things would really get serious. your thoughts? >> well, i think he was right to say that. i mean, all political parties go through two phases. you have that initial take off penod you have that initial take off period and then you have what you might call a stabilisation penod. you might call a stabilisation period . and i think what we're period. and i think what we're seeing is reform sort of taking off at that general election, getting 4 million votes, five seats, but now having to think about , well, what does it take about, well, what does it take to stabilise and what farage said today was, well, they have to change their internal structure. they can't be just a private company with him owning all the shares. what he said to the members in the room is, well, you're going to own the party and i'm going to decentralise power to you. what was also interesting today , was also interesting today, michel, is he said they've established more than 200 branches across the country in constituencies. now, i've been told today they think they're

going to get close to 600 within a year, and they want to emulate the liberal democrats. so they want to start focusing on that local intensive activism , which local intensive activism, which is in a first past the post system as labour and conservatives know, is what you need to do if you're ever going to have a chance of winning seats. so i don't think reform have grown up. i think they're still in adolescence, but i think they understand that they need to do more than what, say, the ukip uk independence party or the brexit party did because they never really came of age. i think this is farage saying, okay, after 30 or 40 years of watching and being in politics, i actually understand what you need to do to get to that next level. and now they seem to want to try and do that. >> and i'll come back to that democratisation a little bit later on in the programme. but this whole kind of concept, bill that reform, you know , that reform, you know, potentially could be in with a shot at the next general election, could potentially be in for a big shock at the next council elections. do you back that idea?

>> i don't think they're in contention at the next general election. i think the county council elections next year, they could do well. but, you know, it's very glitzy. it's very glamorous. but i still think . think. >> reform are you secretly enjoying yourself at the reform uk party? is that what i'm detecting here? >> i as you said, i never thought i would be at the reform conference. however, i think nigel farage and reforms big challenge is he's fantastic at mobilising 15 to 20% of the electorate, but he repels a significant number of more people . and that's the problem people. and that's the problem that he's going to face. and if they are coming of age , then they are coming of age, then they're going to face much greater scrutiny over their policies. the detail, you know , policies. the detail, you know, their membership and all the rest of it. and that's where i think they'll have they're going to fall short. >> but when he says about the membership and stuff like that, one of the points that nigel was keen to kind of labour was that

there were challenges in the last election, matt, that were kind of what he would call teenage angst, i think was how it was described . he was it was described. he was explaining that he doesn't want bigots and people like that within the party, whether that's membership or standing as not contestants, but candidates. what do you think to this nofion? what do you think to this notion? what bill is saying, though, that the party essentially, in his words, still repels lots of people. >> so i think there's a legitimate question around how does a party like reform go from 14, 15% of the national vote to 30%? now, i was talking with the new chairman earlier on today, yusef, who was saying their goal at the next election is to win the next election. now, of course, we might all sit here and think, well, that's ridiculous. >> do you think it's ridiculous? >> do you think it's ridiculous? >> well, i was just going to say one of the interesting things right now about british politics is, is what political scientists would call the volatility in the system. so how do you go from bofis system. so how do you go from boris johnson winning an 80 seat majority to keir starmer winning the biggest majority since 1997?

the reason is we don't have tribally loyal voters anymore. we don't have tribal allegiances. what we've got are loads of voters out there just swinging around from one party to another. so could reform win the next election? i think very, very challenging. would i say absolutely not? no, because i think actually in a world of trump in a world of giorgia meloni in italy, in a world of, you know, all of these outsiders that seem to be doing quite well, i think anything's possible. what is interesting , possible. what is interesting, lastly, though, is i've never seen and i've been interviewing and writing books on british politics for 15 years. i've never seen the quality of people around nigel farage, as you've seen with reform. so, you know, today giving the talks, the mps, you know, i thought rupert lowe was very credible. i thought zia yusuf as chairman, he sold his company for 200 million, 300 million. he knows what he's doing. i think you saw people who have experience. >> basically, i take the point

about volatility, volatility. we are in much a much more volatile age. but farage has still got this problem. you know, you look at his net disapproval rating in the polls. it is significant even amongst leave voters. he's in negative territory . so in negative territory. so really. yeah. >> —4% brexit. don't like nigel farage. >> everybody's in negative territory at the moment including mr starmer who's on —30 which is what i call prince harry territory. >> nigel farage. his figures are far worse. so i think he's got a really big challenge. but also he talks about winning seats in the county council elections. we've been here before. i remember 2014 when ukip in my former constituency of harlow topped the poll and got a significant number of councillors because they were so inexperienced, they imploded after a year. and you talk, matt, about the people around nigel, the very close knit team, it's going to be the people they select up and down the country. and i see nothing of any

evidence that they're recruiting and selecting high quality people. >> if i was being provocative, which, you know, i like to be what i would say is what i sense from you, bill, is fear, because i think people in the labour party know that with reform having just helped decimate the conservatives, i think everybody in the labour party knows that the main challenger to labour in the main challenger to labour in the industrial heartlands, in the industrial heartlands, in the red wall in northern england, it isn't going to be the tories, it's going to be these guys. >> the challenge the labour government is delivery. if we deliver on growing the economy, if we deliver on rebuilding the national health service, if we deliver on cutting net migration significantly, we don't need to worry about farage and reform and he is at heart still a populist , presenting very populist, presenting very simplistic solutions to complicated problems. now that can get you so far. and you know, he had an impressive performance at the general election . he got to that 15%

election. he got to that 15% figure. i think there's a ceiling of about 20%, beyond which he repels people. and i don't think they can advance further than that. >> well, i think if you look at where labour look where you look at where labour are at the moment, it's a perfect marketplace for somebody like farage. small boat numbers, rising record levels of legal migration, a prime minister who, to be frank, a labour prime minister. i thought keir starmer would be would struggle at the role of prime minister. i didn't think he would be this bad in terms of, you know, amateur mistakes, taking clothing from a labour party donor, giving that donor access to number 10. we'll talk about it, i'm sure later on we certainly will. you know, a stagnant economy bill, the cost of living crisis, taking money off pensioners. how can bill but bill when you when you talk about the boats crisis, did you really expect that after 77. >> can i ask you just to turn it around. >> just just please answer this question because you are labour man right through and through,

probably like lots of lots of the people here used to be, taking two and £300 off pensioners , while david lammy is pensioners, while david lammy is announcing, giving 100 best part of 100 million to middle eastern. you know , tinpot eastern. you know, tinpot dictatorships in his crazy idea that that's going to stop the small boats. there's something gone wrong in the labour government. >> well, hold on, if you want to tackle illegal migration, you are going to have to spend money and in terms of the winter fuel allowance, there has always been allowance, there has always been a case for means testing. i actually think they've got it wrong in terms of the threshold, and i'd wait for the budget and see, because i think that's going to change. >> every speaker here today made a point of saying this isn't a party political point, but they've made a point of saying they've made a point of saying they opposed the cut to winter fuel payments. they were absolutely opposed. so what i think what i'm saying is, i think what i'm saying is, i think you've got a new formula in british politics. i think you've got a party with reform thatis you've got a party with reform that is leaning a little bit left on these economic policies saying, actually, no, we want to ring fence benefits, we want to ring fence benefits, we want to ring fence benefits, we want to ring fence protections for

pensioners, but is leaning to the right on cultural questions, illegal migration, stop the boats, clamp down on diversity eqtu boats, clamp down on diversity equity policies in public institutions with an increased profile . profile. >> the scrutiny on reform is going to be much more significant. and it doesn't add up. you can say all of that, but their manifesto committed to £70 billion worth of cuts to public spending. you can't ring fence benefits. you can't ring fence. i remember you can't invest in the national health service if you're cutting expenditure by £70 billion. >> i remember a certain party that happens to be in government saying to all of us, it wasn't going to raise taxes. now, is that going to happen next month? >> well, i mean, that feels like a lifetime. >> three core taxes are not going to change. >> well, look, we will be coming on to the labour party. worry not. richard tice. he had some harsh words to say as well about keir starmer. we'll come on to that before the end of the programme. i also want to look as well what robert jenrick had to say, but i do also want to look at this whole kind of

criticism about reform uk when it comes to how democratic they actually are. we'll look at that after the break this monday. >> the king of breakfast tv is back. that's right, britain's favourite tv host eamonn holmes returns to britain's hottest breakfast programme , breakfast, breakfast programme, breakfast, every day from 6 am. only on gb news. britain's

>> hello there, i'm michelle dewberry and i am live. we're out and about. we are coming to you from birmingham. why? because today has seen the start of reform uk's conference. we were there watching lots of the speeches. the reaction i've got to tell you , the energy in that to tell you, the energy in that conference room was like it was almost akin to some kind of rock concert. personally, i've never seen anything like that when it comes to british politics. would

you watching at home, what do you watching at home, what do you think to that? get in touch. give me all your thoughts alongside me. of course. mike goodwin and bill rammell remain now. one of the criticisms that's been levelled a lot at reform uk is the whole notion that they're not very democratic. this came under attention . let's listen to nigel attention. let's listen to nigel farage today. >> so as i stood after the count in clacton in those early hours of july the 5th, i said that yes, of course i would represent the constituency. the constituents in parliament. but i had a job, and my job was to professionalise and democratise reform. uk that was a solemn promise and pledge that i made to you, the members. well, yeah , to you, the members. well, yeah, apparently there's going to be a vote on this apparently at the conference tomorrow. >> ben habib, though he's quite a former well, quite a high profile, shall we say. reform uk member. let's listen to what he

has to say about some of these proposed changes . proposed changes. >> i am not seeking the removal of nigel farage. this has got nothing to do with nigel farage. but any organisation, whether it's political, private , it's political, private, governmental, if it has a leadership that cannot be held to account, that don't have checks and balances in place to ensure that they behave properly and where the leadership don't, don't recognise that they can be removed if they perform badly, that leadership and that organisation will fail. >> so ben habib, in essence, is not really having any of it. he doesn't really believe it's as democratic as we're being to led believe. what do you think to that? >> matt goodwin well, for a number of months now, there have been rumblings around reform with members saying they want to have more of a voice and they want to have more influence over the direction of the party. now, what you heard from farage today on the stage is he was essentially saying, look, there were two problems that they were struggling with. one was this was a brand new party and they

just needed to be able to make decisions quickly. and the other one, which i thought was quite interesting, was they're worried about infiltration. so he's worried about what he called extremist infiltration. you know, whether from the right or the left. you have to remember too, the assumption in british politics has been that reform is going to infiltrate the conservatives. but of course, what they're worried about is the conservatives also infiltrating reform. so i think partly there's a nervousness among the leadership that if they just give all of this power and influence away what farage is worried about is he'll end up back in the days where he was with the uk independence party and in the 1990s, in the 2000, with constantly getting bogged down with all of these, you know , down with all of these, you know, fractious committee meetings and divisions within the party. so i suspect, you know, ultimately we'll end up with a model where, you know, he retains strong control, but members have more influence than they do now. >> i don't know if you just heard that loud bang by the way, but i did mention to you, didn't

l, but i did mention to you, didn't i, about rock concerts. one of the things that happened at the end of nigel farage's speech, we had fireworks, we had balloons, and we had streamers. and a great number of people have taken those balloons as souvenirs. so if you do any of those random bangs, i think it's one of those balloons that's probably not going to make it home. bill rammell what do you make of this whole democratisation? well, it's undoubtedly the case that at the moment, reform is a democratic monstrosity. >> it's essentially a business where nigel farage owns a majority of the shares. that's how he was able, without any reference to the membership, to replace richard tice during the election campaign and the members have no say now. he says he wants to reform it. but i listen very carefully to that section. i didn't hear the whole speech, but that section on democratisation and reform, he said. there's going to be a board within the party on which members will be represented. that sounds to me like it's not majority representation . he's majority representation. he's still going to effectively have that control. and i think that's

why ben habib, who until a few months ago was the deputy leader of reform, is saying it's a con and will be a dictatorship with nigel being the dictator as everybody within the labour party knows, giving away complete power and influence on an equal basis to people in the grassroots is something you can't really do. >> if you want to run a viable, effective political party. i mean, if labour were to do that, there'd be a lot more corbynistas on the benches of the house of commons. >> well, the labour party has changed fundamentally because it changed fundamentally because it changed its constitution and its structure at grassroots level. as well. but with the increased scrutiny that will come to reform, i don't think this is going to hold , and we need to going to hold, and we need to see the written detail tomorrow of what nigel farage is proposing. but the fact that someone like habib is saying it will continue to be a dictatorship, i think very speaks, speaks very loudly about what will be the outcome. >> and of course, people like richard tice, nigel farage, they would very strongly push back against ben habib. they were

here and say that that's not the case. it's not a dictatorship. you at home, you will have your own thoughts on it. tell me what they are. >> of course there's going to be a vote on this as well at conference tomorrow. >> one of the other things that i thought was quite interesting was how much of a inspiration i'll use that word. it wasn't no one else's word. the lib dems seem to be to reform uk at the moment. your thoughts? >> yeah, i mean farage was quite explicit. he said. they're going to basically emulate the liberal democrats, which is something he never thought he'd ever say. but of course the lib dems were the masters. i mean, they are the masters. i mean, they are the masters of using local politics, talking about, you know, fox, fox, poop dog poop on the pavements, cracked pavements. you know, why my dog is constantly covered in fox? but that's another issue, fixing pavements, fixing potholes . pavements, fixing potholes. that's always been the lib dem way to winning constituencies under first past the post. and of course , that's how they've of course, that's how they've done so well in the southwest and parts of scotland. here's what's interesting. if reform emulate that strategy down the east coast of england into kent,

essex round that south coast where there's lots of reform friendly seats , mainly lots of friendly seats, mainly lots of working class seats, older seats, conservative seats. you then begin to see a serious political rebellion forming because their support is concentrated in particular kinds of areas, like labour is big in the big cities, university towns and so on. now that could get interesting if they get serious about that local activism. >> i really do want to get i want to come to keir starmer towards the end of the programme, but there's so many questions that i'm going to put to you because i do ponder the labour party always kind of pnded labour party always kind of prided themselves on being the party for the working class. and i wonder, so i will give this one to you at home to think about, because we'll come on to keir starmer imminently. did you vote for the labour party? are you the working class and do you actually think that once you've elected that labour party that they are delivering for you? because i'd be really interested on your take bill as to how well you think that the actual labour

party is delivering for those working class struggling in some cases, people, this whole democracy of reform uk, it does divide opinion. there will be strong opinions of yours at home. i also want to come in. >> yeah. no, i was just going to say there's a broader question about nigel farage. you know, i do gb news quite a lot and i come into contact with lots of ukip's brexit members. yeah. and 75% of them have very bad things to say about nigel farage. and he has a history on which on whose poll. no on not being able to work with people at a high level. and that's 75%. that's my experience of talking to ukip brexiteers. >> right. so this is a very scientific poll , ladies and scientific poll, ladies and gents. 75% of the people at bill rammell encounters that are in a gb news green room and a gb news green room are anti nigel farage. i've got to say, i speak to a lot of people on a daily bafis to a lot of people on a daily basis @gbnews. i don't think that reflected that sentiment that reflected that sentiment that a significant number have

real criticisms of his leadership style, and that links back to whether he's prepared to relinquish control. >> and i think the reality in the world of party politics, the reality in the world of smaller challenger party politics, is you've got to ruffle feathers, you've got to ruffle feathers, you've got to ruffle feathers to get things done. >> and i think you know, the blunt reality here is we all know, i think even if you disagree with everything nigel farage says, we all know. we all know he is a raw talent. he's got something that cuts through in a way that very few politicians can cut through. the question now is, can he get the apparatus, the organisation around him? and i would add another challenge to farage. can he bring about the generational turnover in this movement? because when he returned as leader, he said quite clearly i'm coming back for five years, but as part of that i'm also going to be handing the baton down to the next generation, the 40 somethings, the 30 somethings, the 20 somethings. there is a generational challenge in this movement. you

can see it here at this conference. i think that is one of the big things farage and his team need to think about. >> i think that's absolutely right. you look around this hall andifs right. you look around this hall and it's not the demographic that's going to be that insurgent mending the pavements approach that the lib dems have specialised in. so where he gets the troops who are prepared to take that on, i think is a serious challenge. >> how do you know from looking at someone whether or not they're passionate about mending they're passionate about mending the pavements? >> i'm making a point about the age profile, which is similar to the point that matthew is making, that if you want a new generation to take over, then you've got to train them, you've got to develop them , they've got got to develop them, they've got to take on leadership, responsibility and there's i mean, let me give you one example. >> they had ant middleton speaking at this conference, the sas who dares wins guy celebrity fairly well known, especially among the younger generation. i thought that was a really interesting move because, you know, he's younger. he talked about, you know, how you build a nafion about, you know, how you build a nation versus how you build a

squad or a battalion in the army. clearly not a party political guy, but somebody who has things he wants to say about the state of the country and also the state of our military. now, i was sat there thinking, well, if reform continue to do things like that, if they make this movement look cool, if they make it look countercultural, they make it look fashionable, then i think farage will begin to break into 2,025%. if instead they go back to their comfort zone and they say, okay, this is about they say, okay, this is about the ukippers, it's about the brexit party and all of that stuff, then maybe they won't break out of the 15 to 20% range. so, you know , ultimately, range. so, you know, ultimately, again, it comes down to, well, what does nigel want to do. >> well there you go. million dollar question. what do you make to what you're hearing. look after the break we will talk about robert jenrick and what he's had to say. have you seen that about the change in demographics, if you like, within this country and the role that immigration is playing for that? also, want to talk to you as well about keir starmer and the

hello there. michelle dewberry dewbs& co with you till 7:00 tonight. and yes, indeed we are live here from birmingham tonight. why? because it's the reform uk party conference. bill rammell and matt goodwin keep me company till 7:00. look, nigel farage, he was speaking out today about his view on who the next tory leader should be. take a listen. you know, have a look at what we're up against. >> the journalists are obsessed with who is going to be the next conservative leader and the truth is, i don't give a who the next leader of the conservative party is. >> so, yeah, there you go. that's nigel farage basically saying he don't give a who the next tory leader is. well, one tory leadership contender. he

had a lot to say earlier on today. take a listen to robert jenrick england in particular in recent decades, identity has started to fray and we've seen that in our children not being taught to celebrate english history in our schools, our pubuc history in our schools, our public institutions , denigrating public institutions, denigrating and dismissing our history and our identity. >> and as a result of illegal migration and legal migration , migration and legal migration, putting immense pressure on our ability to successfully integrate people into our country, sir. >> i mean, that's robert jenrick they're basically saying that so many people are dismissing the engush many people are dismissing the english identity. we're doing things like refusing to teach proper history in institutions, almost like we're ashamed of our culture and who we are. he blames migration for a lot of it. mark goodwin well, robert jenrick sounds a lot like a reformer, and it's uncanny timing that he's making this

intervention at the same time that we have the reform party conference, which again, reflects the strategic dilemma facing the tories. >> one of the interesting things jenrick said he talked about an elite in our country that no longer feels pride in who we are now on that point, i, i agree with him now for a long time, going back to george orwell, who of course was the first person to make this point, george orwell on the left, said that there were members of the elite who would rather steal from the poor box than for stand god save the king have made this argument that what we have is a ruling class, that that really accrues social status by denigrating their own country, by saying it's racist, by saying our history is a source of shame , by history is a source of shame, by saying that we are somehow a problem in the history of the world. and i think this culture of what roger scruton, a conservative philosopher, once called a culture of repudiation , called a culture of repudiation, the elite repudiate who they are because they want to feel

morally righteous. they want to feel good around other elites that, hey, i get it, you know, not like those those masses down there, me and you, we're special. we're part of the elite. we derive our sense of status from other things , from status from other things, from being socially liberal and being global and being part of this anywhere culture where you can be just as home in berlin as you could be in new york. and of course, most people don't think like that. most people do think there's something special in engush there's something special in english identity and history and culture and ways of life. and they're sick of being told that those things are somehow a problem and that as a consequence, they are somehow a problem . problem. >> i don't think that's what they are being told. look, populism has been around for about 150 years, and it's built on the notion always and always has been that there's this elite that's out of touch with ordinary people and ignores them. i don't think that is the reality. and jenrick, when he says immigration is a danger, you know, this is the guy who was a member of a government that allowed net migration to get up to 685,000. so you know,

that's the reality of just just a question. >> do you think we should be teaching children in britain that they have white privilege? >> no. >> no. >> well, labour ministers have said no, no, no, no, we should be teaching kids about white privilege. >> no no no no. there's a review of the curriculum being undertaken , among others, have undertaken, among others, have been on public record saying that we should teach kids the outcome of it. and i believe in british culture, i believe in british culture, i believe in british history. and i think it's important that we have that identity. but i think we're an institutionally racist society. i think there are institutions that are institutionally racist. you go back to the stephen lawrence inquiry and the metropolitan police. i think the metropolitan police. i think the met were right to describe themselves as institutionally racist, because i think that is a real problem. are we as a whole society institutionally racist? no, because there are people in the labour party who would say, we are stop quoting people out of context. >> but they would say that, i

mean, the reason that they attacked tony sewell is because he said britain is not an institutionally racist society, and that violated the new religion, which says everything is about institutional racism. >> but the reality is, when it comes to immigration, people have every right to criticise it, that the levels that it has and express their views where i think jenrick starts to go wrong is he eliding that with the riots and, you know , you're riots and, you know, you're perfectly entitled to have your views on immigration, but it doesn't justify absolute lawlessness just on that point because i get this a lot right. >> i was very outspoken at the time. i said, this is clearly about the borders. people don't feel safe in their own country. but when people were polled by reputable pollsters, yougov, opinium, among others, they said, who do you blame for the riots and the protests? over 60% of brits said they blamed recent immigration policy. of brits said they blamed recent immigration policy . they felt immigration policy. they felt that the riots and the protests were at least partly about the changes that both labour and the

conservatives have introduced. now, either they're making that up or they all share a sense that broken borders, mass uncontrolled immigration have left communities in rotherham and elsewhere that have also, let's be frank, had to deal with things like child grooming. and they've left those people feeling profoundly unsafe. and this is where, again, i think keir starmer made a massive error early on in his premiership. he should have come out and said, i get it. this isn't just about criminality. this is about the pace of change in our country. >> quick response. but he's made it very , very clear that we are it very, very clear that we are determined to reduce net migration and we understand people's concerns. but when you're talking about people like you, even your new border security chief says if you want to smash the gangs, you need to have some form of deterrent as well. yeah, and watch this space in terms of what we're doing. >> it's going to be called the botswana safety partnership. mark my words. i let's i bet you a pint, bill. i bet you a pint in 2029 at a pub of your choice. labour will have something

called the botswana safety partnership scheme, which will be rwanda. in another name. >> but the difference is and look, as a minister, i explored offshore processing, but we will be doing it in terms of processing, not sending people there for good and not doing it to a country with a really dodgy human rights record. and just because you pass legislation saying that rwanda is safe in terms of human rights doesn't make it a reality to make a good point. >> yeah, i honestly am. >> yeah, i honestly am. >> i i'm brimming with quick points all of us want to be. >> but if we don't get a break in a minute, we won't be able to talk about keir starmer because apparently he's now said that he isn't going to accept any free clothes. >> i what a laughable sentence that even is. see you in two. >>

i. >> i i-- >> don't i. >> don't know why that michelle dewberry with you live from birmingham. the reform uk party

conference taking place here bill rammell and matt goodwin keeping me company. lots of you guys getting in touch. phil says, michelle, why is robert jenrick just talking about england and the issues faced here in england? he says it spans way beyond northern ireland, wales , scotland, he ireland, wales, scotland, he says, and so on and so forth. lots of people feel optimistic when it comes to the democratisation of reform uk and believe it when nigel says that actually he is going to turn things around. there's lots of optimism as well, for there's lots of optimism for the energy, i think, of the conference that people have seen and they've enjoyed that today. look, one of the things that richard tice he had to say today, take a listen . had to say today, take a listen. >> who knew i don't know. what do i call him? do i call him sponger starmer? do i call him scrounger starmer ? do i call him scrounger starmer? do i call him free gear? keir or or do i call

him starmer? the granny harmer ? him starmer? the granny harmer? >> bill rammell that's richard tice basically running through a list of nicknames that he could choose to use . keir starmer, the choose to use. keir starmer, the later one there being starmer, the granny harmer. how do you think it's going for the labour party right now? >> i think it's been a bad week. if you're referring to just a week. yeah i think we've done an awful lot. you know, workers rights renationalising the railways, setting up a structure so that we can get more renewable energy. >> in talking about any of that , >> in talking about any of that, everyone's talking about the winter fuel allowance and all the freebies in keir starmer getting more freebies than any other mp since 2019. >> and let me come on to deal with that directly. look, you know, it's been declared in that sense. it's legitimate. it's not corruption as we saw in the last tory government. however, it is not a good look . and i welcome not a good look. and i welcome the fact that keir has made clear he's not going to take donations from clothes for clothes. i think he's going to have to go further than that.

>> but why would he do it? why would keir starmer? i think naivety. so you're telling me a man that's been in politics for goodness knows how many years? he's only been an mp for nine years. he's only been an mp for a decade, and he doesn't know. he's so naive that he doesn't know that. on the one hand, telling the country that tough times are ahead, stopping pensioners potentially from being able to keep themselves warm in the winter. doing that on the one hand, while simultaneously taking more freebies across all different sectors taylor swift, concerts, you name it , football and you name it, football and getting grown men to buy his wife's clothing. you're telling me he doesn't realise because he's naive, that that's a bad look after almost a decade in politics? >> come on, i'm being straight with you, right? >> i don't think you are. >> i don't think you are. >> no, no, i am. so undoubtedly, we are going to have to take some very tough decisions, bill, because it's not because he's naive. >> that does not wash with people, including me. >> it is a significant political misjudgement and it's motivated. it i think it's carelessness and not thinking it through. so now thinking about ministers careless that it's being presented, prime minister,

that's careless. let me tell you what i think the solution is. part of the solution is today. but i think he's going to have to go further and not take any donations from party donors for what essentially would be seen as freebies. >> can i just come in? i think for most people in the country and this isn't a comment on what bill just said, but i think it's the hypocrisy here. absolutely stinks. we all know that if this had happened under boris johnson's regime, liz truss, rishi sunak's labour and much of the media class would not have stopped talking about it. it would have been a sort of moral meltdown. they would have gone on and on and on and on and the fact is, keir starmer, since 2019, has taken more freebies and gifts than any other member of parliament. the times own analysis showed he took two and analysis showed he took two and a half times more than the next mp in the list from 2019, when he was leader of the labour party. knowing he could well become prime minister now that is a remarkable lack of judgement on my part . and the

judgement on my part. and the other thing, by the way, michel, is he did all of that while taking away winter fuel payments for britain's pensioners, 10 million pensioners and his government, giving the best part of £100 million to foreign regimes because they think it's going to somehow stop migration now. there's lots of people, including, by the way, people in my own family who are living alone, who are widowed and they are worried terribly about the cost of living crisis before they got to the winter fuel payment cut. and now they're heanng payment cut. and now they're hearing rumours that council tax reductions for people living alone might also be chopped in the budget. the so—called widow's tax that has been going around the newspapers in recent days. people out there are scared. they're anxious, they're worried about money. and i've got to say, you know, i know, bill, you're not here to represent the government. but this government looks fundamentally out of touch with with the mood in the country. >> i don't think it is what, what what we're trying to communicate, and i think it is

cutting through, is that we have inherited a dreadful situation. no, no, no, hold on. we have the money. the money isn't there. >> irrelevant to keir starmer getting every single freebie he can get his mitts on and there are two separate issues. >> one, we do have to take difficult decisions because of the inheritance. and any one, matthew, who pretends that that is not the case is deluding themselves. >> so why give 100 million to other countries? why not give 100 million to some of our own british pensioners? >> do you not think, as someone who is concerned about migration, that we will have to spend some money overseas in order to cut the numbers here? >> that can be the million dollar question, can't it? because i know my viewers, you will have very strong opinions to that one at home. i just can't believe what i've heard. someone's been in politics for nearly a decade and apparently they still don't realise you can't take stuff from pensioners while simultaneously filling your hands at every opportunity. really? anyway, look, that's all from us here at birmingham. up next, we've got an exclusive interview. christopher hope, nigel farage. i'll see you tomorrow night. night >> a brighter outlook with boxt

solar, sponsors of weather on gb news . news. >> evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. tomorrow's weather patterns similar to today as much of the north dry in the south. again, we need to watch out for some thunderstorms developing. we've seen a few today. low pressure is heading up from the south, high pressure dominating to the north of scotland , bringing, as north of scotland, bringing, as i say, much of northern britain a dry day today and a dry and a fine night. having said that, the cloud is thick enough in the east for a little bit of drizzle here and there in the south, we've seen some big downpours today. they are going to fade through this evening, but later in the night we could start to see a few more heavy showers coming in. it will be quite a mild night in the south, but with clear skies in parts of scotland. temperatures will be well down into single digits again, though western scotland having a cracking day if you like. september sunshine. meanwhile, in the south we have another thunderstorm warning. not everywhere in this large

warning area will see downpours , warning area will see downpours, but where they do occur, like today, they could cause some issues, potentially some flooding. there's going to be lots of lightning and large hailstones as well. eastern scotland, north—east england likely to stay fairly glum. a bit of drizzle is possible along the coast and over the hills, but generally staying dry and certainly plenty of sunshine once more . in western scotland once more. in western scotland there will be some sunshine further south as well. the hit and miss nature of those thunderstorms, though. that's why we've got the warning in place. they could cause some disruption. certainly a lot of spray and surface water on the roads, so bear that in mind. parts of the midlands , wales, parts of the midlands, wales, southern england most susceptible, but some heavy showers across eastern england too. in the sunny spells it'll feel quite warm, mid 20s, possibly 20 or 21. in western scotland, but where it stays glum in the east coast it will be cooler. and that cloud is back again on sunday and the heavy showers across the south as well. we have another yellow met office warning in place for sunday, covering large parts of england and wales for wet weather, with the thunderstorms

today and tomorrow , that extra today and tomorrow, that extra rain could cause some further disruption. the warnings are available on the met office website. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

welcome back. to >> welcome to lee anderson's real world. and tonight on the show, i'm joined by author emma woolf. she's going head to head with former labour party advisor matthew laza. also got tv personality ingrid tarrant and top british comedian paul cox.