>>a >> a very, very good evening to you. i'm martin daubney and this is gb tonight. rachel reeves gave her first speech as chancellor today and used the opportunity to defend her decision to cut the winter fuel allowance. and this is despite a £10 billion injection into pubuc £10 billion injection into public sector pay rises and the bank of england's £10 million to the government. we'll be speaking to a labour mp. live from the labour party conference in just a short moments time . in just a short moments time. and is call of duty the perfect training ground for our future combatants? well, today the defence secretary called on gamers to put down their controllers and sign up to the armed forces, an idea which may have merit, and it could see gamers utilise their skills they have gained playing games like call of duty to save their country, and the gb news exclusive for you this evening,

as it's revealed that 25,000 migrants have crossed the channel since january, with some 12,000 coming since the labour party took to power . cracking party took to power. cracking show ahead . all of that to come. show ahead. all of that to come. so do get in touch with your thoughts on tonight's topics by going to gbnews.com/yoursay. but first, here's your headlines sophia wenzler. >> martin. thank you. good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines just after 7:00. rachel reeves has accused the last conservative government of choking off investment and suffocating growth in living standards. in her speech at labour's conference in liverpool today, but not before she faced a protester. we are still selling arms to israel . selling arms to israel. >> he accused labour of selling

arms to israel before being removed with shouts of free palestine heard from backstage. >> getting back on track, the chancellor declared labour as a party that represents working people, not a party of protest, earning her a standing ovation. she went on to promise to repay the trust of voters and set out what her first budget on the 30th of october will focus on. >> so it will be a budget with real ambition, a budget to fix the foundations, a budget to deliver the change that we promised a budget to rebuild britain. and my budget will keep our manifesto commitments. every choice we make will be within a framework of economic and fiscal stability. you'd expect nothing less. we said we would not increase taxes on working people, which is why we will not increase the basic , higher or increase the basic, higher or additional rates of income tax. national insurance or vat. and we will cap corporation tax at its current level for the duration of this parliament. >> meanwhile, hundreds of pensioners staged a protest outside the conference centre as part of unite's campaign against

the cut to winter fuel payments. the unions, demanding a u—turn on the policy , which removes on the policy, which removes payments from 10 million pensioners. unite's andy green called it an outrage, claiming the labour leadership have attempted to take out the debate on the cuts . almost half the on the cuts. almost half the total number of migrants who have crossed the english channel this year have arrived in the 11 weeks since labour came to power , weeks since labour came to power, despite worsening weather. over 1400 migrants arrived in dover this weekend, pushing this year's total to 25,000. 11,500 have now crossed in the space of just two and a half months since labour won the general election to the middle east. now, where 274 people have been killed and more than 1000 left wounded. in the most widespread wave of israeli airstrikes against hezbollah in the last year. residents in southern lebanon reported receiving calls this morning telling them to evacuate, with warnings also

broadcast across lebanese media. meanwhile, a security source has told reuters news agency an israeli strike on beirut's southern suburbs was targeting senior hezbollah leader ali karaki, but that it's not clear yet what happened to him. and in the us, the suspect in the second assassination attempt on donald trump wrote a note detailing plans to kill the former president. prosecutors have revealed today. ryan routh was arrested near trump's west palm beach golf course, where he had been tracking trump's movements for nearly a month. the 58 year old is expected to appear at a federal court later today, and could face further charges. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. now it's back to martin for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gb news. >> com forward slash alerts .

>> com forward slash alerts. >> com forward slash alerts. >> thank you sophia. now welcome to gbn. tonight with me martin daubney. now, the only memorable moments in rachel reeves speech today was not so much the content, but the heckling. and despite pensioners coming out in their droves to protest against their droves to protest against the winter fuel cuts, the chancellor used the opportunity in her speech to defend labour's decision, made the choice to means test the winter fuel payment so that it is only targeted at those most in need . targeted at those most in need. >> i know that not everyone in this hall or in the country will agree with every decision that i make , but i will not duck those make, but i will not duck those decisions , not for political decisions, not for political expediency , not for personal expediency, not for personal advantage . i judged it the right advantage. i judged it the right decision in the circumstances that we inherited. i did not take those decisions lightly. i will never take the responsibilities of this office lightly . lightly.

>> will the chancellor say that she will make hard but fair choices ? so one can't help but choices? so one can't help but wonder why she is banking a £10 billion windfall from the bank of england, despite calls from her own party to use the funds to reinstate the winter fuel payments for struggling pensioners. and joining me now live from the labour party conference is the labour mp for plymouth moor view, fred thomas. fred, welcome to the show . fred, welcome to the show. always a pleasure. so today was meant to be the honeymoon period, the sunlit uplands. but it was overshadowed by protests from inside and more potently from inside and more potently from outside the arena. today pensioners from unite saying it was crucially and vitally unfair that the labour party are axing the winter fuel allowance. what do you stand by? that decision ? do you stand by? that decision? >> well, firstly, it's great to be on the show, so thank you very much for having me. it's my first time on gb news and it's a pleasure to join you. i think the mood here is really positive

to be honest. the incidences you mentioned have really played a big part in the day. people are really excited by the first serious budget we've had, the first serious speech by chancellor we've had in a long time. i would suggest strong decisions and an actual conviction behind them rather than politics. on the hoof. and yes, there are tough decisions that we've had to make because of what we've inherited the mess after 14 years of failure. but those are decisions that nearly everyone here are completely unhed everyone here are completely united behind . and so the mood united behind. and so the mood here is much more positive than i think a couple of minor incidences might make out well, 10 million pensioners losing their winter fuel allowance wouldn't qualify as a minor incident. >> do you think that looking back, it was a mistake to do something so emotive , so high something so emotive, so high visible when you've just given £10 billion to your union mates in teaching and the nhs? and by the way, one of those was rejected today during the speech by the nursing union.

>> look, i'm absolutely furious that we've had to do this . the that we've had to do this. the economic mess we've inherited is a disgrace to this country. i represent hundreds , thousands of represent hundreds, thousands of pensioners in plymouth , and pensioners in plymouth, and people are really angry that the conservative government, who were in power until just 11 weeks ago, by the way, have left this country with a completely unworkable economic situation and that has forced us to make really hard decisions about identifying who are the most in need of support from the government. i completely stand by rachel's decision, but i also understand the frustration that's caused amongst some pensioners who aren't eligible. and look , that's the harsh and look, that's the harsh reality we're faced with. you know, we've got a really tough mountain to climb as a government, as a country. together we can do it . government, as a country. together we can do it. i'm really optimistic and i think today marks the first steps of change beginning. and a government who are going to make the tough decisions. finally,

not hiding behind popular and unfunded schemes that sound good but end up costing us more . but end up costing us more. >> okay, fred, i'm glad you mentioned about your furious about the decision in your constituency. i've got a map on the screen i'd like to show you now because i made this map. it's called the list of shame of the people who voted to kill the winter fuel allowance. you're on that list. if we can go to your constituency there of plymouth moor view your majority, fred, is 5604. do you know how many pensioners lost the winter fuel allowance? and your seat ? allowance? and your seat? >> well, as i say, i'm furious about the inheritance that we've received from the conservative government. that is what is driving the hard decisions that we are taking as a responsible government. finally putting long term growth first. and as i say, i understand my constituents concerns , and i'd like to concerns, and i'd like to reassure them that the reason the chancellor has taken with the chancellor has taken with the prime minister these

decisions is because we need bold action. we've set fiscal rules. what can never happen again is for government to introduce a completely unexamined budget, which we saw the conservatives do with liz truss, that crashed the economy. thatis truss, that crashed the economy. that is the price we're all paying that is the price we're all paying at the moment. i completely, as i said, stand by those decisions and that's why i voted for it. but of course, i understand the human impact that's real. and that's why in my constituency in plymouth moor view, i'm holding a number of pensioner focused surgeries. and, you know, i suggest to your viewers all around the country that they should reach out to their mps who may not be doing this. and what we're going to be doing is signposting pensioners to all the available support. just so make sure that all our community has everything available to them and we can get the support we need. >> okay, fred thomas, just go back to that graphic of your constituency. 5604 is your majority the number of pensioners who've lost to winter fuel allowance in your constituency is 11,915. now to

flip your seat will take half your majority. by my maths is 2802. so you can see quite simply, if your constituents voted to punish you on your decision to kill the winter fuel allowance, it would only take just over a third of them for you to lose your seat. are you concerned that a pensioner backlash might come back to bite you on the backside ? you on the backside? >> i'm really confident that come the next election we'll have had time and it is going to require time for this labour government to turn the country around. now we've had 10 or 11 weeks, so that does not count as enough time to change around a huge economy. you picture turning around a fuel tanker, you can't do it quickly. okay? these things take time. these tough decisions are part of that. and i don't for a second sit here and tell you those are easy, easy decisions to make. they're not they're not easy decisions to consume. okay. the reality is really harsh. but that's what it is. it's reality.

that's what we're faced with. and so i think that come the next election in a few years, our community and my constituents and the patch i represent in plymouth will have had time to see that this labour government are going to turn the country around . change has country around. change has already begun and there's been so many fantastic things the government have done. i'm really excited to see what comes next and we always were up front with the nation and i was up front locally in plymouth. it's not going to be overnight. we're not going to be overnight. we're not going to be overnight. we're not going to get in. >> your manifesto to axe the winter fuel massively. it was never mentioned. >> and these things do take a little bit of time. you know , little bit of time. you know, that's the honesty of these matches. >> the fact of the matter is angela rayner, rachel reeves, sir keir starmer , you maintain sir keir starmer, you maintain time and time again that the tories, considering acts in the winter fuel allowance, was something you totally stood against. and then, less than a few weeks in power, you did the same thing. fred thomas. that's what happened. look as you know, when we came into government, we were finally able to fully examine the country's finances and what we discovered in

department after department, after department was unfunded commitments by the previous conservative government. >> what that represents is a black hole in the economy. and at the same time, they had completely avoided really important choices that , frankly, important choices that, frankly, any government needed to do to keep the nhs running, paying pubuc keep the nhs running, paying public servants properly, you know, not paying them a lot , know, not paying them a lot, just paying them properly. and there were some decisions we had to make. and look, i've spoken to make. and look, i've spoken to pensioners in my constituency and they understand the decision. you know, there is concern about it, of course, because we're talking about money that people used to have in their pocket that some of them, and bear in mind, the most needy absolutely will still have the money in their pocket. that's important to remember here, but what are the other pensioners understand? and they come to me and they say is okay. labour have completely committed to the triple lock on pensions, which is going to end up being much more valuable to pensioners than the winter fuel allowance. so labour is completely on the side of pensioners and completely on the side of the economy, because it's growth thatis economy, because it's growth that is going to get us out of

the situation that the conservatives have left us in. that's the reality we're in. >> okay. fred thomas, thank you very much. you've got a tanker. you say the tanker has got to turn around. let's hope it's got winter fuel on board. fred thomas, thank you very much for joining us on the show. appreciate your time. labour mp for plymouth moor view. well joining me now in the in the studio is the director of the poplar conservatives, mark littlewood and my panel of nigel nelson, junior gb news senior political commentator and moutaz ahmed, the associate editor at the telegraph. gentlemen welcome to the show. let's start with you. mark littlewood , i think i you. mark littlewood, i think i gave him ample, ample opportunity there to, to face up to the facts. the facts are stark. you know, mps like fred thomas could be in major, major trouble if a fraction of the people in their constituents, in their constituencies decide to vote against them. on the issue of pensions, do you think he was convincing in his response? >> not really. i also found it a little hard to believe, if i'm honest, that pensioners are mobbing him on the streets of plymouth to say how much they understand that labour is committed to the triple lock. i

would like to know exactly how many such conversations he's had. look, this was a political choice. don't buy any of this. we opened the books and we discovered something far worse than we could possibly have imagined . and i'd also add to imagined. and i'd also add to that i'd have more sympathy with the labour government if, over their 14 years of opposition, they had continually been saying to the conservatives, we've got to the conservatives, we've got to tighten our belts, we're spending too much, i think you should rein this in. i think you should rein this in. i think you should cut this. i think you should cut this. i think you should cut this. i think you should cut back on that. quite the opposite. any attempts by the opposite. any attempts by the conservative party to keep expenditure down were criticised by the labour party. so i think the books would have been a lot worse if labour had been in. so it's a choice. 22 billion, which is the mystical number they've come up with and have not justified, is a rounding error in the public finances. as i've said before, it's a bit like worrying that your house is burning down because you might have left a £5 note behind the sofa. the overall state of the pubuc sofa. the overall state of the public finances is colossally worse than any rounding error on

a spreadsheet of 22 billion, and the labour government doesn't seem to be getting to grips with that at all. i fear they're going to put that tax to such high rates that more people will be scared off and revenues will fall, and there doesn't seem to be with this modest and rather cruel cut aside any serious view about how to get public expenditure under control. >> let's bring my panel in now. let's start with you, nigel nelson. now, i know as as a supporter of the labour party, you've been exasperated by the timing of this. everybody's talking about it still now there are pensioners outside in the rain, in wheelchairs, some with dementia. the gb news spoke to earlier. it's still dominating the agenda for a £1.4 billion saving. why in the name of all that's holy, did rachel reeves decide to single out pensioners? i don't understand it. >> well, first of all, if you need 1.4 billion and you need it really quickly, it's probably the only way you can get it to actually, because i can't think of another way it would come in quite so quickly. however, what rachel reeves hasn't explained is why she needs it so quickly .

is why she needs it so quickly. i would have favoured, rolling the £300 into the state pension and then taxing it so richer pensioners would have given a substantial amount of their money back if she'd had longer, because she could have saved money by. we've got a sort of, a ridiculously old fashioned system of giving up cash to old people. so for instance, prescription you get a free prescription you get a free prescription at the age of 60, why not 66? that would save a phenomenal amount of money. do it on retirement age , not 60, it on retirement age, not 60, when most people are still working. >> but what's your take on this? we're still talking about it. do you think that rachel reeves and the labour party just made an historic blunder in, in singling out, i mean, look, this is outside the labour party's own conference. this is unite no, a labour the biggest labour supporting union coming out in their droves against the government at their maiden conference. it's a terrible look. this was meant to be positivity week. >> it's like donald trump's infrastructure week. that never

happened. we waited four years. that never came. they were supposed to be positive this week and they can't stop the doom and gloom. what was his justification? oh, the tories left us a mess. the truth is that they need this money because they want to increase spending further than the tories were going to were going to spend. were going to were going to spend . that's the fact. that's spend. that's the fact. that's why they need the money. and there is actually a justification for cutting winter fuel payments. you talk about intergenerational fairness. you talk about the triple lock. he only came to that at the end of his interview, because he spent so much time talking about how tories messed it up, that it is a mess. whether they cut it now or not. they're in trouble. they're in trouble both ways. that's the worst outcome you can get in politics and they've managed to achieve it. >> mark, final word to you, they're hoping fred thomas was saying, you know, in a few years time, they'll have all forgotten about this. there will be nothing to see. pensioners will be grateful for our experience. is that true or can these things unger is that true or can these things linger on for a long time? poll

tax maggie thatcher, milk snatcher. we're still talking about that now, decades later. >> no, that's right. look, the memory fades after a while and i'm rather with nigel. i think the sensible thing to have done would have been to wrap up all the various pensioner benefits into the state pension. we still have this ludicrous thing where pensioners get an extra tenner in christmas week. i mean, just put an extra tenner on the pension and spread it out over 52 weeks. but here's what i think they've done wrong. and whilst i'm in favour of getting pubuc whilst i'm in favour of getting public expenditure under control, why it's rather cruel. you've got to give people time to plan. and it's not as if people in their 80s can decide to sort of re—enter the workforce, to make ends meet, and i would like to see a lot more long term planning, talking to people like me in my in my very late 40s. well, i'm 52, in my very, very late 40s. but if i was told my pension date was going to be set back somewhat, i'm not going to get free prescriptions when i'm 60. all of that should be put on the pubuc of that should be put on the public ledger, but i've got time to plan. these people should have been told. i think, before the election rather than after it. but this was the plan. there

was no need to concoct this after the election. and in the pensioner community, you can't really do a great deal to change your income stream. so really, the long term savings need to be aimed at warning people like me that i'm probably not going to get all of these benefits in 15 or 20 years time. >> the reason they kept schtum about that is because in seats like fred thomas's seat, you might well have the majority of 5600, almost 12,000 pensioners lost their winter fuel allowance. those outcomes would have been very, very, very different . you'd have to leave different. you'd have to leave it there. and thanks to my panel it there. and thanks to my panel, we're back to you shortly. excellent as ever. now coming up next is call of duty, the perfect training ground for our future combatants. we're speaking to an avid gamer and the defence secretary on that

next. welcome back to gbn tonight with me martin daubney. now, today, the defence secretary, john healey, urged for call of duty

gamers to join the armed forces in order to solve their recruitment crisis, setting up a new direct route for cyber military recruits . military recruits. >> because if you're a top gamer or a coder , your country needs or a coder, your country needs you and we will always maintain the highest standards and we will create will create an armed forces that draws the very best of britain's talent. >> so put down your joysticks and enlist. the defence secretary is also preparing to water down the fitness requirements for joining up, to make it easier for them to get in, scrapping rules that block people who suffer from hay fever, eczema and even acne . fever, eczema and even acne. now. could virtual reality be an ideal training ground for the actual real world combat? well, joining me now to discuss this is a student at the university of edinburgh and an avid call of duty gamer , the magnificently duty gamer, the magnificently named rocko . kraken. rocko, named rocko. kraken. rocko, welcome to the show. so when we

hear the defence secretary saying gamers , sign up and my saying gamers, sign up and my panelin saying gamers, sign up and my panel in the studio here, they were away. but do you think, rocko, there could be some merit in this? >> well, i mean, firstly, i don't love the part where it says people have hay fever, skin problems and everything, i mean, then there's the assumption that gamers are kind of unfit or something isn't ideal for, i mean, for, gamers reputation, but also it's not a new thing that call of duty is, is something that, can recruit people for the army. it's always been made in consultation with the us military in the credits for most call of duty games, it will say the us military, will or some section of it were made in consultation. the game was made in consultation with them. and, yeah. so i don't i'm not sure that, this is a revelation from the defence secretary, but i do think it is good. it is, it

is good to encourage people , is good to encourage people, especially people who have struggled with gaming addictions or spend a lot of time on it, to give them a hope and a prospect of going into the army, because it's always a good career path to have. >> and i wonder if rocko, some of these skills are transferable, like we saw for example, with lewis hamilton, one of his test drivers now was found because they were a gamer and the skills they developed driving computer games enabled them through a filtration process. their brains were highly adept at spatial awareness in real time, in very, very quick time. and so there is definitely a merit. is there not for using it as the beginnings of a screening process to find people who might have the skills, for example, to operate drones. it's not about going to actual warfare, increasing these days. it's about, you know, virtual warfare anyway. so it's the same skills, right? >> oh, absolutely. the ability to yeah, have that kind of, i mean, already with that kind of mind to muscle connection to your games consoles would be a slightly scary way of,

recruiting people to the army to kind of gamify, gamify the way war is done. i mean, encouraging gamers to go around on drones doing actual murder is i'm sure it'd be a it's a crazy concept , it'd be a it's a crazy concept, especially because the way games like call of duty are made to, to encourage people to enjoy or to encourage people to enjoy or to commercialise warfare and make the idea of shooting people easy, fun and stimulating , but easy, fun and stimulating, but yeah, it's a fun, it's crazy. but, also, it is a fun idea for gamers to think and to have the possibility of going into , their possibility of going into, their kind of their game, their fun becoming a career path is, and it would be i'm sure it would be effective if that were the reality where you could go straight from playing your game to, to the army, but, with i'm sure there's so much in between that would, probably make it a lot harder, less glamorous. >> all right. we'll have to

leave it there. thank you very much for joining leave it there. thank you very much forjoining us, rocko. krakeni now, let's come back to the studio and discuss this with my panel, nigel nelson. and also mutaz ahmed. let's start with you, mutaz ahmed. you were you were kind of guffawing away dunng were kind of guffawing away during some of that about the possibility of people fiddling with their joysticks in their bedrooms, suddenly becoming trained killers on the front line. well, i'm an expert. >> i'm an ex call of duty addict. yeah, i used to play it, you know , at my peak, i play it you know, at my peak, i play it eight hours a day. and i'm glad this is just we're talking about cyber jobs because it does make you trigger happy. you do kill a lot of people without consequences. so i'm glad we're not talking about people on the field. i think generally though, it is a good idea because people who play call of duty, they understand the weapons. you again, i don't want them on the field immediately, but they know what's happening. they understand the sort of the basics of army strategy . they, basics of army strategy. they, they understand the settings that these things happen in. so it is a good idea just don't put

them on the field straight away. >> you're still trying to get hold of jeff who's at nigel nelson. let's talk to you in the interim. so look, the fact of the matter is we've got a recruitment catastrophe, let alone a crisis in the army. we've got the smallest army since the napoleonic times . the since the napoleonic times. the air force, the smallest since it was formed at the end of world war one. and so few sailors were scrapping ships. something's got to be done. one look for gamers. >> and one of the other things he's doing is, which is part of this program, is that he's going to improve recruitment because some of the figures he came out in his speech today were saying that a million young people tried to join the armed forces over the last ten years, three and four dropped out because it took so to long get through. so the idea is to speed this up. you can actually get a decision in ten days and be in training in ten days and be in training in 30 days, which is good. now when it comes to the gamers, they're not going to go from call of duty straight into flying drones over people and actually killing in real life what they're going to do is

they'll be trained properly. what you're after is the skills they've got with their eyes, their brains, their fingers. that's the key thing. and it won't matter. there'll be a new recruitment process for them. and why that's good is it won't matter if they're a bit overweight. they've got acne. whatever. they don't need to actually be fighting fit to go out there and fly a drone. >> can i just say i wouldn't worry so much about. i think we worry so much about. i think we worry too much about recruitment . worry too much about recruitment. history shows that when there is a war, when there's a reasons to sign up, young men in this country sign up . so you know, country sign up. so you know, when we need men, we get men. there's not. >> you kind of need them before the war starts. not necessarily ready for it. i mean, if we're in a critical situation and we have plenty of men, please don't just say we only need men. >> don't forget trans people. well, don't forget women. yeah, don't forget all of those, because otherwise we might get in major, major trouble. thank you very much to my panel being facetious there. why not? what i do now, coming up next, almost half of the illegal migrants crossing the channel this year did so under the labour party's

leadership . we'll have a home leadership. we'll have a home security editor, mark white, on that

next. welcome back to gbn tonight with me , martin daubney. the home me, martin daubney. the home office has confirmed that 25,000 small boat migrants have crossed the channel so far this year, and half of them patrick christys and half of them in the 11 weeks since the labour party took power. now, this weekend alone, more than 1400 small boat migrants arrived in dover. and to discuss this, i'm now joined by gb news homeland security editor mark white. mark welcome to the show. so an astonishing total. to the show. so an astonishing total . sir keir starmer told us total. sir keir starmer told us time and time again he would smash the gangs the same way rishi sunak told us he was. he would stop the boats. they're

not listening, mark white. the gangs aren't listening. the numbers are getting bigger and bigger and bigger, as is the headache for the prime minister >> well, if anything, martin, i think the gangs are becoming more emboldened. i was speaking to a senior maritime security source over the weekend who was very surprised that we were seeing these small boats being pushed off by the criminal gangs into the english channel over a weekend in which we had, of course, these storms in the channels pretty high winds at times in the channel as well. it was only just possible. yet we saw the kind of bumper days that you get on a very hot, saw the kind of bumper days that you get on a very hot , flat, you get on a very hot, flat, calm summer day. so they're taking much bigger risks. and that's why, of course, we are seeing a death toll that's now almost 50 for the year so far. you remember earlier this month, eight people died when their boat got into difficulties near calais. and then just a week or

so before that, 12 drowned when their boat also got into difficulties. and i think as we get into the winter months, we could be seeing more loss of life in the channel, which will of course, pile the pressure on the government for some kind of action. keir starmer, as you mentioned in your introduction, has vowed to smash the gangs, but the gangsters, the organised criminal groups are certainly not listening. >> and mark white do you think there's a sense here? there might be a bit of a last minute rush to get as many over as possible. there's a lot of tough talk about what the labour party is going to do. we haven't seen anything precipitate that seems to be that much of a deterrent thus far. i mean, the most i've seen is 100 civil servants. wow that must really put the terror into the boots of the people smuggling gangs. more people with clipboards .

with clipboards. >> yeah, i mean, it's a good point, but i think we fall into a trap when we think here they are rushing to get the migrants across, making this illegal journey before the winter comes in. quite frankly, as we've seen in. quite frankly, as we've seen in previous years, they do it anyway whenever the conditions just about allow for these boats to get into the channel that's what they do. this is a very significant business for international people smugglers. the channel crossing can bring in millions of pounds in a very busy day for these people smugglers . so of course, every smugglers. so of course, every opportunity they will take, they will do that. and the fact is , will do that. and the fact is, martin, there are at least 3000 people along the coast of northern france at the moment waiting to get across to the uk. and that doesn't begin to tell the story of just how many people are waiting to get

across, because what the people smugglers do is they have the bulk. the vast majority of those who have paid the money to make this illegal crossing further inland. and then when it's their turn to make that journey either hours before or a day or so before, they're transported up to the coast of northern france and mark white, with just 4000 away now from surpassing last year's tally. >> if you're a gambling man, you'd have to say it looks like we're going to go for a record yeah we're going to go for a record year. mark white, thank you very much for joining year. mark white, thank you very much forjoining us on the show. much for joining us on the show. let's get the reaction now of my panel let's get the reaction now of my panel. i'm still joined, of course, by nigel nelson, gb news senior political commentator, and mumtaz ahmed, who's the associate comment editor at the telegraph. gentlemen, welcome back to the show. nigel, let's start with you. let's face it, rishi sunak couldn't stop the boats. no way on earth keir starmer can smash the gangs. they're simply not listening. this is the tide that even king canute cannot stop. >> well, i mean, bear in mind

that the border security command is setting up. hasn't really started work yet. we've only just got got ahead of it from last week, so it's going to take time . we're not going to stop time. we're not going to stop the boats immediately if the tactic works. if you're using m15 tactic works. if you're using mi5 spies, which we didn't use before, if you're using counter—terror tactics to go after the gangs, which we didn't use before, it might have an effect. it won't stop the boats completely. we're not going to do that. and i think that, keir starmer has been very wise by not making the same promise that rishi sunak did. >> okay, over to you, moutaz ahmed, do you think there's any chance, do you think the hawks, evenin chance, do you think the hawks, even in it, of the labour party to do this, or do they know this is the battle they just cannot win? >> i don't think their heart's in it. there was one thing that was beginning to work, and it was beginning to work, and it was called rwanda. we saw lots of migrants going to ireland instead, an island raising that as a problem because that deterrence worked. all keir starmer has done so far is he's rebadged officials. he's given them scarier titles and hope that they could do a different

job. that's not how it works. you've got to introduce a proper deterrence and, you know, smashing the gangs. the tories were talking about that. they tried. it didn't quite work. it's not going to happen. this time. even if you've got mi5 agents on the beaches, it's not going to work. you need you need to make it clear to people through evidence, through rwanda, would ever have been a deterrent. >> i mean, the idea deterring people, the idea that people going to ireland, some indeed did say they were trying to avoid rwanda. exactly. but i mean, not not all of them. they're going to ireland for other reasons. and not that many were going. so they're still they were still crossing the channel while rwanda was threatened. rwanda was never going to be something that was going to be something that was going to be something that was going to scare them off. and it cost far too much money. 700 million. we gave rwanda 10 billion. if we'd actually carried on, carried on with the programme. >> i think given the numbers, people will be willing to for government to pay whatever at this point, not just to stop people coming, but to stop people coming, but to stop people dying on the on the channel but the other point is you are seeing the deterrent

effect, not just in ireland, but on tiktok. you know, these gangs advertising half price before rwanda comes into force. you are seeing it in chatter. people in third world countries knew what rwanda was . they knew that if rwanda was. they knew that if you came to britain, there was a risk that you'd be deported to africa. that was a deterrent. i don't see a similar deterrent being even discussed by the labour government. >> well, the only two deterrence programmes that have ever worked in the history of these programmes is operation sovereign borders and australia. tone return to papua new guinea . tone return to papua new guinea. but you can't do and well hang on and in italy right now they tow back to libya and tunisia 60% reduction because they gave to money africa and tow boats back. they knew if they set off and they were intercepted, they would not make it to europe until we do the same with france, we've got no chance. yeah. >> i mean, first of all, the australian thing that there were large there was 150 miles of international waters between indonesia and australia. the boats were much bigger, so turning them around wasn't a

problem as far as towing them back goes again. in the mediterranean, the boats are bigger. you're talking about tiny little dinghies , and the tiny little dinghies, and the moment you start playing around with those dinghies, they're going to capsize. >> this is why rwanda was such an innovation, right? we were developing a new legal framework to allow us to ship, not ship, but to fly people to a different country. the only deterrence that works is if you tell people, if you come here, you might end up somewhere else. that's the only thing that works well. >> they might well end up in albania. if keir starmer's, talks with with the italian premier, meloni, do you think that's going to work? >> he's already been called far right by the guardian and labour supporters. >> i mean, you wouldn't go. there's a different system if you went to if you went to albania, it would for be processing. that's what the hauans processing. that's what the italians are doing. they're using it for a processing centre. those people are entitled to asylum would come back to britain. those people who aren't would go, would go back to their home countries. >> so they get a nice little houdayin >> so they get a nice little holiday in albania before coming back to blighty.

>> not sure it'd be a great holiday. >> that's what happened. >> that's what happened. >> i mean, the problem with that also is that some nationalities have a 90% asylum approval rate, so you'll be sending them to albania with a 90% chance of coming back. that's not such a deterrence, is it? >> precisely. thank you very much to my panel. now then, in a moment, the metropolitan police say they aspire to be truly anti—racist once again as it unveils a new action plan. but what does this really mean? we'll have top cop on show to discuss this

next. and welcome back to gb news tonight with me martin daubney. now, the metropolitan police commissioner, sir mark rowley, has set out new plans for the police force to be truly anti—racist. whatever that means, which it says will rebuild trust with london's black communities. a new race action plan includes a new stop and search charter, an overhaul of its policy on intimate searches on children and also measures to help black victims

of crime. i'm delighted to say now i'm joined by the former police superintendent, leroy logan leroy, always a pleasure. will any of this make a blind bit of difference? and isn't the real problem that black people don't seem to want to join the police forces? because the police forces? because the police forces? because the police force keep calling themselves racist? >> well, that's one of the reasons why the metropolitan black police association have got a recruitment boycott, because the commitment of the commissioner, sir mark rowley, has not been total. he won't even acknowledge institutional racism. and that's a prerequisite when you're doing a race action plan, you have to acknowledge there is a problem before you go on and do things . before you go on and do things. unfortunately, he's given the wrong signal to the culture. the operational culture will think, well, nothing's changed. we'll just do what we're doing. you know, we do the stereotyping, we do the forms of assumptions. you know, the disproportionality will continue and people's

experience of policing will not change a jot . and if you don't change a jot. and if you don't change a jot. and if you don't change the culture, you won't have all these different action plans worth a jot, because culture eats action plans and strategies for breakfast, lunch and dinner. and so it's not worth the paper it's printed on. >> if part of the problem as well is a cultural one, not just the culture of the police, but the culture of the police, but the culture of the police, but the culture of the black community, tell me if i'm wrong, but why is it that so few black men in particular seem to want to join the police? is it because it's not seen as a worthwhile job? is it seen? perhaps he might be betraying the community if you join up and be a copper . be a copper. >> well, yes, i had that in the 80s. you know, certain people thought i was . i was a traitor thought i was. i was a traitor for joining the met police in forjoining the met police in 1983, but that has moved on. and but the thing is, if you don't treat your people right, they will walk. you know, if you don't actually show that you're an employer of choice, you

respect people of difference. you celebrate diversity and you don't allow the culture to be the dominant factor. don't allow the culture to be the dominant factor . then people the dominant factor. then people will not join because you know, at the moment you're five times more likely to leave the met if you're black than your white counterparts. and that's been the case for many years . and so the case for many years. and so the case for many years. and so the culture has to change. it has to be seen as an embracing organisation that understands that if there's an inextricable link, the way in which you treat your diverse personnel actually helps you to serve the needs of a diverse public. >> leroy, if you change other rules, such as stop and search and searching children to be less racist, don't you empower criminals? we know that drug gangs, for example, are increasingly employing and grooming children to carry drugs, to carry weapons for them because they're less likely to because they're less likely to be searched . and therefore, if be searched. and therefore, if you strengthen the rules in

protecting them, the real winners are the criminals of the crime lords. >> that's why you really need to get the trust of the community, because the community, the more they trust you, the more information will give you so that you can actually start targeting the drugs, gangs , the targeting the drugs, gangs, the ones who are getting our young people to do county lines. the ones that are getting them to do all sorts of, gang initiations, you know, stabbings , rapes, even you know, stabbings, rapes, even certain types of, robberies and so forth . so, you know, you so forth. so, you know, you really need to get, a proper structure in which communities feel, yes, the police are for them and they're actually making a more safer and more secure neighbourhood that will only happen when you deal with the culture and officers are starting to make the police experience much better for black people, because at the moment, they're still 6 to 7 times more likely to be stopped and searched. they are 3 to 4 times more likely to be tasered and it

goes on. so these are the experience of black people in the community has to change so that people say, yes, the police are for us. they're starting to look like us. and as a result of that we'll work with them. but at the moment, that action plan won't do it. that won't cut it at all. >> but , leroy, at all. >> but, leroy, you're six times more likely to be stopped and searched. if you're a black man, but you're also five times more likely to stab somebody to death. if you're a black man in london and you're four times more likely to be stabbed to death if you're a black man in london, it's just targeted policing. it's not racist. >> no, but you've got the same thing in leeds. you know, you're five times more likely to be stabbed if you're white in leeds and other in glasgow, it's the same thing. but the violence in glasgow, 93% of people stop and search were white working class men targeted in the council estates where that crime was. >> they just happen to be black in london. it's not racist. >> no. not necessarily. no i agree, but you have to have the information and intelligence based stop and search unfortunately still seen as an

expedition, a fishing expedition that people are thinking , you're that people are thinking, you're only stopping me because i'm black and white. look what happened to the young actor that was stopped, by officers, pepper sprayed and heavy handed and body slammed because he was informing the police about a stolen car. these are the sort of things that are showing that there's a lot to do. and until there's a lot to do. and until the police acknowledge there is institutional racism from the top, mark rowley, you'll get the culture change and from that you'll start to see a more, structured policing service that is fit for purpose. >> okay. leroy logan, excellent as ever. we have to leave it there. thank you very much. let's get back to my panel. mr ahmed, let's start with you. what do you make about all this , what do you make about all this, this notion that actually, black men in particular just don't men in particularjust don't want to be coppers? >> well, first of all, i really dislike this language of the black community because all that empowers is spokespeople who come on tv and speak on behalf of the black community. there are black people in different communities, and the fact is

that black people are disproportionately more likely to be in poorer communities where there is more stop and search and unfortunately, there's more crime. what we know is that to build confidence in all these communities, you need to crack down on crime. when there's a few people dying, when fewer people, when fewer people are experiencing experiencing theft, confidence grows in the police. we know that as a fact. but i have personal experience here. my brother is a copper. he joined the met police two years ago. he's a very proud copper. he has no qualms about the institution. he's very proud. right what he's concerned about is that in his borough, often you find just 14 police officers policing a london borough, right? yeah. that's his concern. i'm afraid we have to move on. >> we've got jacob rees—mogg here. thank you very much. we've got a quick blast. what's on your menu? oh we're talking once again about frog gate, donor gate or whatever you want to call it. >> and the extraordinary tax loophole that means that if you're a dustman, you get taxed on your tips at christmas. but if you're an officeholder, an mp, you can have £107,000 of

freebies. and it's tax free. a wonderful tax avoidance scheme is the socialist chancellor going to crack down on it in her budget marks out of ten for rachel reeves today? >> oh four is generous. >> oh four is generous. >> as generous as generous as that. thank you very much. superb stuff. jacob rees—mogg. up superb stuff. jacob rees—mogg. up next, of course, state of the nation. thank you very much. nigel nelson and moataz ahmed. it's been a fabulous show. i'll be back tomorrow at 3:00. and also i'm doing this show again. i'm coming in for farage this week. first is your weather though, and here's alex deakin. have a fantastic evening. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> thanks for joining weather on. gb news. >> thanks forjoining me weather on. gb news. >> thanks for joining me for your latest weather updates from the met office here on gb news. it's been another very wet day, but the rain will at least be easing for many areas overnight and generally much drier day tomorrow , although there will tomorrow, although there will still be some rain across scotland, scotland, northern ireland been largely dry today. it's been across england and wales where we've had the heavy

and persistent rain from this area of low pressure still. met office yellow weather warning remains in place as that rain does start to ease from central parts, but staying pretty soggy across eastern england well into the night drier elsewhere. but we will see some rain just creeping into northern scotland. temperatures in scotland , with temperatures in scotland, with some clearer skies dipping to single figures but mostly staying in double digits. on to tuesday. overall, a much , much tuesday. overall, a much, much dner tuesday. overall, a much, much drier day, particularly where we've seen the heavy and persistent rain today over these central areas, it will be a wetter day though, in northern scotland and with the wind coming in from the north—east feeling pretty cool as that rain sets in across the moray firth in particular, a few scattered showers coming into northern ireland during the morning and the odd one over northern england too, and the remnants of today's rain still clinging to the coasts around to east anglia and kent. but generally speaking, across england and wales are much, much drier day. thankfully, compared to today, the rain will keep going across northeastern scotland . if you northeastern scotland. if you see a few more showers coming

into southeast scotland and across northern england and north wales too, across the midlands, southern england quite a bit of cloud, but some bright spells coming through a bit of sunshine in northern ireland is possible. also on the cool side, temperatures struggling up into the low, teens across the north, maybe high teens further south. a chilly start to wednesday. by and large a dry start, but we will see more rain creeping in from the southwest as the day goes on. some showers in northern scotland, but many areas dry and bright for much of the morning until this next area of rain comes in. and that is a sign of things to come for much of this week, before things then turn colder towards the end of the week. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hello. good evening. it's me,

jacob rees—mogg on state of the nafion jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight , trying to nation tonight, trying to accommodate as much as we can. >> wait wait wait . >> wait wait wait. >> wait wait wait. >> the labour party is beset by scandal after scandal as it discovers that government is harder than it thought. tonight i will be revealing how special tax privileges apply to freebie receiving mps that aren't afforded to you . afforded to you. >> billions of pounds of public money handed out to friends and donors of the conservative party as chancellor announces plans to investigate covid contracts will show how it was she who petitioned michael gove to give covid contracts for ventilators to a football agent. >> i'll also be discussing the now disgraced former owner of harrods, mohamed fayed, and explaining what everyone knew to be true. plus, the battle of the boilers returns with a new enemy. yes, you guessed it, it's the labour party with warnings from industry insiders suggesting more costs are coming to you. state of the nation starts now