as were released, who shouldn't have been a mistake, if you will. and get this, we've got no idea where some of them even are. oh, well, let's look on the bright side. at least people who tweeted stupid, silly things are behind bars.7 and speaking of keir starmer, right.7 the freebie fiasco continues. we've seen now though, that the unions at the labour conference have massively voted against the winter allowance, the fuel allowance at conference. but simply, will it make a blind bit of difference? do you reckon it will? do you reckon it should? and look, let's all face it, we all agree that benefit fraud is bad. but what's the solution then? is it to allow officials the ability to allow officials the ability to snoop on your bank accounts? is this a common sense or a breach of civil liberties? also, has protecting the reputation of the nhs been put above

protecting patients ? all that protecting patients? all that and more. but first, at 6:00, news headlines . news headlines. >> good evening. the main news from the gb news centre. the prime minister has told gb news there are legitimate concerns over migration levels. sir keir said he tended to agree with those levels being too high. but he told our political editor , he told our political editor, christopher hope, that those concerns were no excuse for violence. >> do you understand people have legitimate concerns about immigration and we should debate them. and where they say to me, we think there are migration is too high. then i tend to agree with that. and the reason is because among the reasons is because among the reasons is because of the skills failure over the last years. and we need to fix that. many, many people across the country are concerned about immigration, but they

wouldn't for a minute go on to the street and throw a brick at a police officer. and i think it is wrong to pretend or that they are one and the same. they are not. >> the prime minister was speaking ahead of his speech to the united nations, where he called for british nationals in lebanon to leave immediately. the prime minister said that now more than 1200 uk troops, aircraft and ships were on standby to evacuate britons if necessary . warning sirens necessary. warning sirens sounded in tel aviv this morning as a missile was intercepted by air defence systems after it was detected crossing from lebanon , detected crossing from lebanon, hezbollah has confirmed. it launched a missile targeting mossad headquarters . it claims mossad headquarters. it claims the intelligence agency is responsible for assassinating leaders and blowing up pagers and walkie talkies in lebanon . and walkie talkies in lebanon. will. the prime minister is at the centre of fresh controversy over a decision to accept,

accept several weeks accommodation at a luxury property in london? the accommodation was made available by labour donor lord alli and the stay was valued at around £20,000. sir keir defended his decision to accept the offer, saying it was because his son needed somewhere to revise for his gcses. he said the family home was besieged by journalists dunng home was besieged by journalists during the election campaign . during the election campaign. detectives investigating the attempted abduction of a baby on attempted abduction of a baby on a train in nottinghamshire have released an image of their prime suspect. british transport police say the man grabbed a baby girl from her mother's arms and took off down the carriage as the northern train service approached worksop station. a relative managed to grab the baby back from the man. the attempted abduction happened in august , but police have now

august, but police have now released the image as other inquiries have been unable to identify the suspect . and a new identify the suspect. and a new weather warning for heavy rain has been issued by the met office, which could cause further widespread flooding and travel disruption. the yellow warning has been issued for much of england and wales, parts of the west midlands and the north—west of england between 5 pm. tomorrow and 10 am. on p.m. tomorrow and 10 am. on friday. the met office says there is some uncertainty in the details of this warning, but some areas could see up to 30mm of rain in 2 to 3 hours. phillip schofield is returning to television 16 months after his departure from itv's this morning. the former tv star will appear on the channel five show castaway . the programme's castaway. the programme's producers released the promotional video, as the 62 year old told his followers on instagram now you know how i

spent my summer alone for ten days? no food, no water, no crew. while schofield resigned from itv last may after he admitted an affair with a younger male colleague . and younger male colleague. and those are your headlines. you're right up to date. now it's over to michelle dewberry for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gb news. >> .com forward slash alerts . >> .com forward slash alerts. >> .com forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that, mark. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you until 7:00 tonight. i'm with you until 7:00 tonight. i don't know about you, but sometimes i feel like almost putting my head in my hands when i listen to some of the headunes i listen to some of the headlines of what goes on in this country. that story there about some guy apparently trying to snatch a child. can you imagine if that was your child? you're minding your own business and this happens? i certainly wouldn't be that pleased about

his mug shot potential mug shot, should i say, have been released. a month. and so down the line, would you also that phillip schofield thing weird. do you not think? anyway look, there's lots that i want to talk to you about tonight and alongside me until 7:00 tonight. i've got my panel, i've got aaron bastani, the co—founder of novara media, and i've got peter hitchens, the columnist at the mail on sunday. good evening, gents, to both of you. good evening. good evening. and you know the drill, don't you? it's not just about us. it is about you.so not just about us. it is about you. so what is on your mind tonight? you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. email gb views @gbnews. com go to twitter or x or whatever you want to call it. reach me there or go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay now we've all seen that keir starmer speech at the conference yesterday. well fast forward to today. the prime minister, is in new york. very well , very minister, is in new york. very well, very good to minister, is in new york. very well , very good to see that minister, is in new york. very well, very good to see that he's taking his commitment to climate change seriously. he's there for

a summit at the united nations. and he has sat down with our political editor, christopher hope. christopherjoins political editor, christopher hope. christopher joins me political editor, christopher hope. christopherjoins me live now. christopher good evening to you . so bring us up to speed you. so bring us up to speed then. how was the prime minister today ? go on. today? go on. >> of course. yeah welcome to new york city on the banks of the hudson river. yesterday, on the hudson river. yesterday, on the banks of the mersey and liverpool, where, of course, sir keir starmer spoke to his activists and members and mps, members of the cabinet. now he's members of the cabinet. now he's here in new york, where he's here in new york, where he's trying to deal with two massive trying to deal with two massive issues on for him globally. issues on for him globally. we're trying to evacuate britons we're trying to evacuate britons from lebanon. right now, we've from lebanon. right now, we've got two warships in the region, got two warships in the region, many might move to cyprus. many might move to cyprus. separate to that, there's the separate to that, there's the war in ukraine. zelenskyy is war in ukraine. zelenskyy is here, the leader of ukraine. here, the leader of ukraine. he's trying to get the americans he's trying to get the americans and the brits to sign up to his and the brits to sign up to his victory plan. one final push to victory plan. one final push to try and beat russia and force a try and beat russia and force a concern that might be if donald concern that might be if donald trump wins the presidency in trump wins the presidency in november. he might try and force november. he might try and force

ukraine to sue for he's ukraine to sue for a peace that they don't want. but while i'm here in new york city, i've been able to interview sir keir starmer and he has been saying some quite interesting remarks @gbnews tonight. he's saying how people are absolutely not far right. if they're worried about migration issues. he says that migration issues. he says that migration he thinks net migration he thinks net migration is too high. it will come down under labour. he's not trying to excuse the violence. we saw the riots. we saw back in the summer. but he is trying to say he goes towards where many of our viewers are certainly on your show, michel. they are concerned about migration , where concerned about migration, where they are and they feel they can't express those feelings without being attacked by the left. and that irritates them. he also said he would pursue and go further and not go. go back on his plans to withdraw the winter fuel payment from pensioners. we know that was passed into law just last month. that will not be changed despite, labour members today in that conference, as conference

in liverpool has wrapped up voting voting against and we also he also said and maybe a relief to many viewers that last orders will not be cancelled by the labour government. they may look at stopping smoking in pub gardens, but not limiting opening and closing hours for pubs. i did ask him, though, whether he felt that the nanny state is now going to be bedded in to this, this country over the next five years. he just said that it's quite important to take issues for all received

likes of veterans. that received a lot of support from you guys. he was asked about that from christopher. let's just listen . christopher. let's just listen. >> it's a very important commitment that we've made because, too many veterans who have , you know, given so much to have, you know, given so much to their country , find themselves their country, find themselves without a roof over their head. so because we've taken the difficult decisions on planning decisions that were not taken for years , we can guarantee that for years, we can guarantee that they will have a roof over their heads. so homes for heroes becomes a reality and not just a slogan ahead of other groups. so importantly, yeah, that will require regulation to be passed to make that priority. but it's not, ahead of all other groups. this is unlocking, you know, a real step forward on homelessness for many people who are homeless in. >> i'll tell you what i want to know. if there's one house available, social housing available, social housing available, and you've got two people, both equal, one's a veteran, one's an asylum seeker

who gets the priority to that property. i still don't think i'm clear on the answer to that. are you at home, peter hitchens is a lot. we can digest from what keir starmer had to say yesterday and again repeated and drilled down on again today. what do you make of what he's had to say so far? >> not much. the speech was largely the sort of thing that labour leaders always say. it contained no news about what the government is going to do , nor government is going to do, nor any particular news about what sort of person he is or what he's thinking. it did contain some sausages , which i think we some sausages, which i think we must always remember in future, but i think beyond that it was a disappointing and rather wearisome speech without any particular content. and what we've just heard is of a similar event and we he's supposed to have said something about prioritising military veterans for housing, but when you actually hear him speak, he departs from the english language into some strange formula from which it's impossible to tell who actually

will get priority. so we'll see what happens to that when it really happens. for me, as someone who has some respect for the old labour movement, i'm absolutely astounded and appalled by the way in which the labour party was so quick to distance itself from any moves to restore sensible alcohol licensing laws to this country, which were idiotically destroyed by both labour and the tories in the 1980s, and which have resulted in the most appalling outbreaks of drunkenness, violence and disorder ever since. as anybody with any sense knew they would. it's not just i don't expect. i never expected labour to do anything about it. although labour was once the party of temperance and of opposition to widespread drunkenness and departed from that only quite recently. i wasn't expecting them to suddenly recover their conscience on this, but to be so embarrassed and sending out the rapid denial squads to say so quickly that something a senior member of the party had said wasn't true , and that there was wasn't true, and that there was absolutely no intention of reducing the hours available for drinking alcohol was quite

striking. some of us may remember the text sent out dunng remember the text sent out during an election by the labour party . don't give a for during an election by the labour party. don't give a for x for last orders vote labour. this is crude . populism would be a crude. populism would be a polite way of describing the sort of politics. i think it's very distressing to see a once great party resorting to this kind of pandering. >> leave my last orders alone. that's what i beg everybody. it's one of the small pleasures in life, isn't it? i don't know what's your thoughts are on having drunks rolling about the street all night. >> yeah, but is that a great pleasure? >> if people are going to get drunk, they're going to get drunk. no, they leave the pub. michelle, you're so young. 7 or 7. >> michelle, you're so young. you don't remember what this country was like before the first the tories and then labour actually abolished the 1915 licensing laws, under which it was much, much harder to get a dnnk was much, much harder to get a drink and there was much less drunkenness as a result. one of the quotients on this that you could actually tell there was a survey. it used to be done in, in, in glasgow. the less the

less drink that was available, the less the less spousal beating. there was. and it's a very simple thing which anybody should want to reduce. and it's a result of making drink more readily available. >> well, i don't have i can't claim to be really old, but what i do remember is having an alcoholic father, and he was very into spousal beating. and it was irrespective of what time he left the pub. i can tell you that aaron bastani your overall thoughts on keir starmer? >> well, i hope peter is encouraged by the fact that younger people drink less. they do. so maybe that doesn't need to be legislated for because there is a shift there in terms of the speech. boilerplate meandering imparts nonsensical. and peter's right. just a moment ago, we saw that keir starmer has pledged to end homelessness for veterans is possible because of wait for it planning regulations. are they going to build the houses in the next six weeks, the next six months? that strikes me as very strange, it was a very unimpressive speech. and here's the analogy. keir

starmer has been campaigning for years that the country has broken, that it needs immense change. and yet we finally got the medicine offered, not just yesterday, but in recent months. it's equivalent to somebody saying a patient has cancer and then responding by saying, well, if you want to get better, here's a herbal tea. it's ridiculous. you can't say the problems are immense, and yet the solutions are so trivial. so, so much about keir starmer . so, so much about keir starmer. this labour government is for pr take again that veterans pledge. that's exactly the kind of policy you do. day one entering 10 downing street. they announced it during this conference because the proverbial has hit the fan with regards to polling. 6 in 10 brits don't trust keir starmer 29% in one general election poll . 29% in one general election poll. and last weekend he was more unpopular than rishi sunak. so this is really throwing the kitchen sink at the problem. and the issue is when you throw the kitchen sink at problems, actually they may not have thought about it. actually, it may not be that deliverable.

>> well, one of the challenges. >> well, one of the challenges. >> so do we believe him? i mean, we all remember gordon brown's great gillian duffy mess up where he left his microphone on and he referred to her as a bigoted woman. i believe that thatis bigoted woman. i believe that that is the view of the labour party elite towards people who are worried about mass immigration. i don't think it's changed. they've just learned to keep quiet about and to hide their real opinions on what their real opinions on what their own voters think. on that subject, and i don't i struggle to believe that keir starmer respects the views of people who are worried about mass immigration in the way in which he says he does. let's see what action he takes to back that up. i think you'll probably find two years hence that yet again, a government which says it's against large scale net immigration has done nothing to kerb it . kerb it. >> well, he said, didn't he, when he was asked again by christopher hope about, you know, if you're concerned about immigration, are you far right. he did go to on say no, you're not. but then you shouldn't conflate people being concerned about immigration with the same people throwing bricks at the

police. well, no, of course you shouldn't conflate those two things. you shouldn't be throwing bricks at the police. but i would be interested then. does that mean that keir starmer regards the harehills rioters then as being far right rioters? all makes a very strange, confusing sense to me. but look, keir starmer again, under pressure again. i mean, just when you think he's kind of freebie fiascos seem to be drying up . the latest episode of drying up. the latest episode of this is that apparently he used lord alli mansion or one of them to provide safe studying space for his son during his gcses. a value has been attributed to that of £20,000. >> yeah, that's what we all do. yeah if our children are studying for their gcses and it's and it's difficult. there's noise or disruption. we find a multi—millionaire friend and we get him to put them up in a flat in covent garden. that's what we all do, isn't it, lord alli. it's just there are many, many other ways of particularly of well—off middle class people in north london, presumably having family and neighbours of solving

this problem without calling on a multimillionaire. >> quite lord alli is the michael jordan of labour cronyism . you know, it's quite cronyism. you know, it's quite funny. when he was questioned about this. well, who paid for it? was it lord alli and keir? someone, of course. who else? who else could it be? this is an £18 million apartment in covent garden, spitting distance from the royal opera house. and what's interesting is that actually the duration for which his son stayed there extended to a month after the end of the gcse exam period. so maybe starmerjunior gcse exam period. so maybe starmer junior was enjoying himself with a few friends. by the way, he's perfectly entitled to, but that shouldn't be paid for in this glorious penthouse by a donor who, by the way, was given access to number 10 when he probably shouldn't have. and he probably shouldn't have. and he is a very successful business person. he's worth several hundred million pounds. lord alli. and i think there's a huge potential conflict of interest there shouldn't be happening. >> the words ali, what's in it? because it almost reminds me, i'm not suggesting this is an inappropriate stuff going on, but when i think of like a sugar daddy relationship type thing, when you've got a man buying all

of this clothing, this, it's all a little bit weird. >> but the downing street access, you see. yeah, this is this, this gives you a clue. but there's also i mean, he he is on record, i believe, as having been quite keen on press regulation. i bet he's even keener on it now. but whether he whether he can have any influence on policy, i don't know. but the feeling of being a political insider with access to downing street for some people is an immensely valuable and desirable thing. and he gets it. and there it is. your explanation, given the question , explanation, given the question, has to be asked after so many years of this sort of stuff, and it is bipartisan, let's face it. how do politicians still not realise how much it annoys people and also how bizarrely simple it is for people to see this is wrong. it's obviously wrong if somebody else is buying your wife's clothes for you, it's just obviously wrong. >> the flip side, and i've got

to say this, is that there's lots of people who don't actually think this is wrong, and there's lots of people that think this is all absolutely above board, and there's lots of people that are saying, hang on a second, why are you putting all this scrutiny onto starmer? you wouldn't have done it when it was anyone else? briefly, aaron i'll reply to that quickly. >> well then what's absolutely certain is that what keir starmer is accused of is not a touch on what many conservatives were getting involved in under the last government. the point is the phrase that we heard time after time in his election, in his speech yesterday, rather, was politics in the service of the people. that does not look like free designer sunglasses , like free designer sunglasses, free christian dior ties, free football tickets. your son's staying in a £20,000 rent. £18 million penthouse. that is not politics at the service of the people. so i think keir starmer is being judged very harshly when you compare him to the conservatives, but he's being judged harshly because of the rhetoric he is saying he asked he asked to be judged harshly by the way he campaigned. >> well, there you go. >> well, there you go. >> the words, the words lame

excuse come trundling across the table again. it is the business about his sons. yes, he's one of my viewers. we all want his son to do well, and one of my viewers, dave, he wants to get to the crux of the matter. >> he says, michelle, can you try and find out whether or not it's true that keir starmer's suits were made on savile row? i see what you did there, dave, i like it. i like it. look, there's lots to talk about after there's lots to talk about after the break. prisoner release. get this. almost 40 prisoners released by mistake. and also the unions now voting about the winter fuel allowance. will it make a blind bit of difference? i'll see you in

>> servants of the people. >> servants of the people. >> hello there. michelle dewberry peter hitchens and aaron bastani alongside you until 7:00 tonight. one of my viewers has just got in touch and said, oh, you're the best three people on television . he three people on television. he went on to say, if peter is like

a god to him, well then let's get carried away. >> but lord alli for keir starmer. >> yeah, there you go. >> yeah, there you go. >> look who's not letting you have my penthouse. >> dale has said , michelle, >> dale has said, michelle, everyone needs to pack it in about this whole sausage remark. yes, it was funny, but everyone needs mistakes and everyone needs mistakes and everyone needs to move on. that's the problem though. it was quite funny. >> it's the only memorable thing about the speech is the sausage. well, lots of people. it's bound. it's bound to linger on. >> after the speech, lots of people got in touch with me on twitter, particularly yesterday, and said they thought that, speech from keir starmer was absolutely tremendous. i'll tell you what's not tremendous from sir keir starmer is remember this prisoner release. we all know what we're talking about by now. free up prison space and so on and so forth. well, it turns out everybody, that now 37 prisoners in this cohort were released accidentally because of an error. basically, the way that their crimes had been categorised meant that they shouldn't have been released, but they accidentally were. it's all to do with things like breaking restraining orders. now

most of these have gone back into prison, but at least five of them that we're aware of have gone awol. what do you think to this aaron bastani . this aaron bastani. >> well, unless unless one of them does something awful , which them does something awful, which obviously perfectly possible. i mean, it's not a huge pr disaster because as you said, most of them were. >> have you ever had anyone subject to a restraining order? not yet . for harassing you? not yet. for harassing you? >> not yet. it's come close. >> it is one of the most when rather attractive woman. when you've got somebody that's harassing you, threatening you, and you've got a restraining order out on them, that restraining order gives you a small sense of comfort when they're behind bars for breaching that. it gives you a renewed sense of comfort that actually the justice system is working to know that that individual that has put you through hell is now out and about when they should not be. they will be victims that will be absolutely terrified because of this. and i actually think that this is appalling. i think

it's so appalling when you start talking about halving, abuse towards women and girls. and then we find out that actually people , on restraining orders people, on restraining orders are out and about and we don't know where they are, but hey, it's all right, everyone, because someone that tweeted something absurd on twitter is behind bars, so, hey, high five us. i'm really concerned about this , but it's not all of them. this, but it's not all of them. >> but you're quite right. i mean, and also, i suppose there's a speech, that

starmers speech, nothing that this government proposes is going to make any difference to that. if people don't like it and they shouldn't like it. and i completely appreciate what you say about restraining orders, then they really do need to start considering the seriously examining the people who who stand for government in front of them and not listening anymore to promises of bobbies on the beat and more law and order, because they're not going to deliver them until our politics is revolutionised. and i've been saying this now for 20 years. i wrote a book about it. it is called the abolition of liberty. it goes into detail about what needs to be done, and i keep on saying it. i cannot get anybody to pay any attention to it. but i promise you, these things are soluble, but they're only soluble, but they're only soluble if we break with these politics of treating crime not as an act of evil, but as a as a social disease caused by bad housing and abuse and, and things like that, which needs fundamentally to be tackled by social workers . crime is done by

social workers. crime is done by people because they think they can get away with being wicked, because the police are weak and the courts are weak and the prisons are weak, and you don't encounter punishment in our system until you've already become a habitual criminal fix. those things would take about five years, starting with, as i say , replacing the existing say, replacing the existing police with a proper one. and you can do it. but you will neven you can do it. but you will never, ever hear any politician in the major parties even speaking as if they understand these problems. they don't know. they don't want to know. if you want to change it, change our politics. otherwise it will go on as it was before and people will just have to get stronger front doors and better locks. >> gosh, what a what a honestly, honestly, i think sometimes society and what goes on in society, i do think it's actually quite depressing in lots of instances. >> it's not depressing, would be irrational . to be depressed is irrational. to be depressed is to be unhappy without any reason. it's actually disgraceful. and infuriating. but what's most infuriating about it is, is any attempt to initiate a public debate about it dies at birth because nobody

is seriously interested in our in our thinking classes, in our governing classes, in our media classes. they swallow slogans and rubbish over and over again, and rubbish over and over again, and they never do anything about it. and it's taken years to get to the point where people are beginning to accept a point. i made 20 years ago that our police are simply not doing the job for which we pay them and need to be replaced, and you'll have views on that at home. >> i'm absolutely sure . winter >> i'm absolutely sure. winter fuel allowance. you've seen the unions today. they wanted a vote at conference on monday. the vote was pushed back to today. they're not happy about that because loads of people have basically gone home, there's been tough talk from a couple of the unions basically saying that keir starmer must, reverse this decision on winter fuel allowance. do you think he will? >> no, because of course, that's the admission of making a mistake, which, by the way, keir starmer has never done ever in his political career. i think a really instructive thing with regards to this is his new found nimbyism. yes, in my backyard we need to build, build, build. if you look at his voting record in 2015, keir starmer, opposed hs2.

why? because it meant knocking down euston. why does he care about that? well, because it's in his constituency. he was a nimby, not in my backyard. >> and so people can change. >> and so people can change. >> people can. that's true. >> people can. that's true. >> people can move constituency . >> people can move constituency. >> people can move constituency. >> although at that point it's important to say, you know, he was in his early 50s. it's not like he was some young political whippersnapper. but you're right, people can change. but he's gone from arch, you know, remainer free movement to saying to your colleague earlier today that we need to have low immigration, and he's gone from being a nimby to the arch yimby. and i think given all that, you look at the winter fuel allowance, i suspect it's going to be very hard for him to change course on this. i have to say, even if you think it's sensible, insomuch as we need to reduce spending here or there, i don't. i don't actually think that. but park that for a moment. if you think we need to reduce government spending, it's incredibly ambitious to say, here's a benefit for 12 million pensioners. we're going to cut it to 2 million, not 8 million,

6 million, 4 million. they've basically eliminated it. 6 million, 4 million. they've basically eliminated it . and one basically eliminated it. and one thing that really interests me, and i hadn't heard it until a conference this week i was up in liverpool, was a point put to me by somebody who's really got their finger on the pulse. they said that the winter fuel allowance was a brainchild of gordon brown. it was when he was chancellor and the blairites, who very much form starmer's retinue, wanted to destroy one of the legacies of brown. it was very much a political impulse. so it might not necessarily be electoral thinking here. it's not really going to make that much of a difference to the to the deficit or to sort of the fiscal probity that starmer keeps on talking about. i do feel perhaps there's a little bit of a political grudge playing out between the blairites and the brownites. >> also, i should point out, starmer won't be sorry to have been attacked by the trade unions at a part of the conference. he couldn't even be bothered to attend this will, he almost certainly believes, do him good with the middle england voters. he still needs to woo , voters. he still needs to woo, so he won't be troubled about that. it'sjust

so he won't be troubled about that. it's just as labour education secretary has always loved being shouted down and heckled by teachers union conferences because it makes it look as if they're tough on education, when in fact they're not. it's triangulation. it's an old trick. i don't think he'll be at all at all bothered by that vote. >> what do you make to her? >> what do you make to her? >> there's very strong opinions. i know what you made of it at home this winter fuel thing. you tell me. you think it's appalling that one of the first prioritised priorities of this government has been to tackle this payment to pensioners. when you've got all the other seemingly endless spending priorities going on all over the place, i know you're very angry about that. one of my viewers has said, look, your earlier view was right. mike from salford says enough with the sausages. what we need to talk aboutis sausages. what we need to talk about is serious subjects like mass migration. we have to see where we have. >> but we've also talked about sausages, mash , migration. sausages, mash, migration. >> this. honestly, i know you all want everyone to move on from this, but it's going to rumble on for a long time. but look, lots that i need to

discuss with you tonight. the nhs have people basically worshipped at the altar, put its reputation and protecting that before protecting patient safety, and also to try and clamp down on benefit fraud should the authorities then essentially have free reign when it comes to looking at your bank accounts, you tell

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till seven. and alongside me, aaron bastani, co—founder of novara media, and peter hitchens, a columnist at the mail on sunday, remain now the wes streeting. our health secretary. he's been giving a speech, it's all about the nhs, as you would expect. but he says the nhs is broken but not beaten, and that now he feels, is a two tier health care system because of tory neglect. he was also saying interesting

things around this kind of religion, almost a protecting the nhs and being so kind of it's almost become like a religion to some people. that perhaps has been prioritised over patient safety. peter hitchens well, how can it is it is interesting, isn't it, the two areas of government which ministers and indeed people working in them are allowed to say this is all rubbish. >> one is the prisons and the other is the nhs. as since wes streeting pronounced that the nhs is broken and anybody can say it's a hopeless mess, what is the point of this is to take some of the heat off them, but the whole, the whole debate about the nhs, such as it is the one which labour wants to have, is shall we continue to have this enormous public sector monster which was designed in 1948 for a different world, which the trade unions like and, and which we have made into a fetish, or do we actually want a proper health service which serves the people but labour like to confine this to? it's a

choice between if you don't have the nhs, you'll go straight over to the american system, where you have to pay a quarter of $1 million for a broken ankle, and everybody has to have incredibly expensive and inadequate insurance. this is not the choice , and it's time people who choice, and it's time people who were interested in this and everybody ought to be interested, because most of us are going to end up in hospitals sooner or later. one way or another is that there is another way of doing this which the french do, which is a mixture of insurance and state, which is far more effective for similar amounts of money than our system, and serves people far, far better. it's not a choice between america and britain. there are other things they could do, and if they would stop making such a making such a fetish out of the nhs as it is, and recognise that there were perfectly good alternative systems available which deliver better health care to more people, more fairly than the nhs does, and they start doing that. then we will get nowhere with this. but you never see any sign of it at all. it's always the implication, the only choice is either you have this or you have completely rampant, out of control private medicine, which

will leave people drowning in its wake untreated. that's not the choice. it's time people started looking just across the channel at what you can do. in a country of a similar size and similar wealth to us. >> aaron bastani france's healthcare system is fantastic. the counter argument would be that the costs of transferring from one system to another would be very high. and of course, that's a question for the electorate. are you willing to spend hundreds of billions? probably. over five, ten, 15 years to, to transition to what peter is suggesting may be a better system? my view is that the nhs worked pretty well until 2010, i think it does need significant investment in things like kit , people say it's a like kit, people say it's a bottomless pit. actually, if you look at things like mri, cat scan, per capita, we have far fewer of those than the european average in 2010. >> are you basically saying it was fine until the tories got hold of it? >> yeah. well, if you look at well, actually, even if you look at until 11, 12, 13, people's

experience of the nhs was was pretty good in terms of their surveys. it's really fallen off a cliff since covid. that's that's when it's become an awful, abject service . and i awful, abject service. and i think even if you said to the average punter out there, look, we think we can get the nhs back to where it was in 2017, 2018. the average person will go, okay, i think ambulance waiting times appalling, obviously waits in a&e are appalling. but also another quick point. it doesn't really matter if we have a us system or a uk system or a french system if we don't. hold on. peter if we don't train enough doctors and nurses , and enough doctors and nurses, and if we rely repeatedly on bringing health care workers from some of the poorest countries in the world being told off by the world health organisation, which, you know, we're not meant to be doing that, and so i think that's the kind of thing that you need to get political consensus on. we need to be training far more midwives, nurses and doctors, >> the artificial limits on the training of some of some there are there are restrictions which are there are restrictions which are restrictions that the bma support, which are which are ridiculous. and also it is in

some way a reflection on our education system, which is another crisis ridden mess. fascinating figures this week on the number of people supposedly home schooling. in fact, they've just deserted schools, which which children often refuse to go to anymore because they're so bad and disorderly. all our all our major, all our major planks of our state are not working . of our state are not working. and each of these things affects the other, but it is. take one example of the french system. it's some years ago now since the french minister of health went into a hospital and closed the last open ward. if you go into a hospital in france now, you get a private room as a matter of course everybody does. they don't have open wards anymore. our system is basically still struggling, along with open wards and mixed wards. something from the 1920s which should not be tolerated. >> did it start this way or did it evolve into that? >> we have what what nye bevan did in 1948 was he created a health care system for a completely different country, a

working class, generally manual working class, generally manual working class, generally manual working class, exhausted , often working class, exhausted, often injured, and made ill both by the working conditions they endured and by the living conditions they endured. and that was the sort of health service it was. we don't need that kind of service anymore. also, the there's an enormous amount of it, which is basically maintained because the unions want it to be like that. the unions have ceased to be powerful industrial organisations. they don't in general go on strike, particularly the public service ones. but what they are is immensely powerful lobbies for high public spending on them and their members. and this doesn't necessarily produce the right result for organisations like the health service. you want to spend money, not on employing people because the unions want to. you want to spend money on making sure that people who go into hospitals come out cured and that fewer people go into hospitals in the first place. >> can i quickly say on the on the open wards thing, my wife, you know, she we were we were lucky enough to have a child come into the world ten months ago she gave birth. she was in an open ward for two nights with three other new mothers and of

course, babies crying non—stop. no sleep. you've just been through this incredible physical trauma you need to recover. sleep is an incredible restorative form of medicine and i couldn't agree more with you , i couldn't agree more with you, peter. we should not be having open wards in the 21st. >> this is the other, the other end of life. this happens as well. people who are old and very sick are kept awake by people shouting and screaming at night in open wards. it's disgraceful. the chances of anyone getting any good out of a hospital where they can't even sleep are pretty thin, actually. >> well, what do you make to it at home. dean says the topic i'm most concerned with tonight is the mps on the onion gravy train for freebies . oh, you're good, for freebies. oh, you're good, you're good. let's talk about your bank accounts. do you think authorities should be able to have free reign to be able to access. look at what's going on. all in the quest to try and reduce benefit fraud. see you in two.

hello, everybody. michelle dewberry peter hitchens and aaron bastani remain alongside me . now let's talk. shall we? me. now let's talk. shall we? benefit me. now let's talk. shall we? benefit fraud? i mean, everyone , benefit fraud? i mean, everyone, surely, if you're right, thinking you're going to say that benefit fraud is wrong, great. but what's the answer to it then? because keir starmer now, he said essentially that labour's going to crack down on this brilliant. but one of the things that's been reported is that information from claimants bank accounts essentially could be used to try and stop people swinging the lead. when it comes to benefit fraud, what do you think to this? >> aaron bastani well, i'm on the left. i'm a socialist. i generally trust the state, perhaps a little bit more than some of your viewers and your listeners, but i think it's quite worrying because of course, it's other people's money. yes it's wrong. yes. but if one state agency starts doing it and that expands, then of course another state agency can

do it and another and another and personal finances is something of a red line. i think if there's a limited , targeted if there's a limited, targeted use of it , fine. but that's not use of it, fine. but that's not often how these things end up. and the figures we're talking about here, by the way, are relatively small, i think it's several hundred million pounds a yean several hundred million pounds a year, basically £1.6 billion over five years. obviously, that's a lot of money. but when you actually look at the welfare bill in this country, housing benefit and of course, pensions, if you want to consider that part of the welfare bill, that is big, big money. and of course, pensions are going up because we're getting older. >> fraud and error in the social security system apparently costs the taxpayer almost £10 billion a year. peter hitchens, what do you think? >> well, i looked into this some months ago because the one of the liberty organisations was concerned about it. and my initial response was, was to say, well, i don't really think that the state peeping into people's bank accounts can possibly be right. but when i

looked into the levels at which an experiment was conducted some time ago, i think the levels at which fraud was discovered were quite astounding . and if you quite astounding. and if you could devise a system where it was wholly limited and could only be launched on suspicion and a real suspicion, and was utterly ring fenced so that it couldn't be used as a precedent, then i can see a justification for it. i wouldn't say absolutely , instinctively and absolutely, instinctively and without any further thought , without any further thought, don't do this. but i would say you would have to be very, very careful because again, i agree with aaron, personal finance is very much a private matter. and once the state is able to look into it, then you are in trouble. but benefit fraud is particularly nauseating. crime people are claiming to have things wrong with them, which they don't have or disadvantages they don't have or disadvantages they don't have or disadvantages they don't have, and they're taking away money from people who are often poorer than themselves . and it costs an

themselves. and it costs an awful lot to pay for these benefits. so it does. it does make my gorge rise a bit that these, that people are behaving like this. so i'm, i can't quite bnng like this. so i'm, i can't quite bring myself to say never. >> well, i'm sure that there was like a tory proposal for this . like a tory proposal for this. it was voted down not that long ago. it was. it was, i think it was not that long ago, my issue with all of this is. yes, of course, i don't want people to be able to defraud the benefit system, but i just don't trust the when you look at some of these institutional failures that we have, the horizon scandal and stuff like that, i just don't trust the government to make the right kind of decisions on this. and once you start allowing en masse access to bank accounts, isn't that a slippery slope? one of my viewers says michelle, he would support this as long as all of the accounts of ceos and all this and that and the other are also, opened up for people to look at because he says much of bad activity happens there. he also says he's keen to clamp down on all forms of tax

avoidance . lots of tax avoidance avoidance. lots of tax avoidance is legal. well, tax avoidance. when anyone says they want to clamp down on tax avoidance, you want to ask yourself how you feel about isis, which is something that many premium bonds. exactly. >> they are tax avoidance indeed. >> lots of you getting in touch as well about this one. i've got to say, you're kind of, as well about this one. i've got to say, you're kind of , split on to say, you're kind of, split on this one, but this whole sense of not trusting the government and being worried about them getting it wrong is coming through thick and fast, so many people as well. just worried about general fraud. not just this whole notion of people defrauding benefits, but fraudulent activity, scamming activity. once you start opening bank accounts and allowing mass surveillance, people worried, are you perhaps exposing yourself to that? one of my viewers as well, natalie says, michelle, i'm really not appreciating people laughing at this sausage thing that keir starmer says, you're saying that the situation about the hostages is no laughing matter, and it's quite insulting. i've just got

to say, just for the record, nobody thinks that the situation when it comes to hostages is funny in any way, shape or form. it is absolutely not. so please don't be confused by laughing at a gaffe from the prime minister thatis a gaffe from the prime minister that is in no way intended to undermine the awful situation thatis undermine the awful situation that is going on. jan has been in touch as well, saying she completely agrees with you, peter hitchens , when it comes to peter hitchens, when it comes to open wards and getting rid of them, she says you're in trauma already. when you're in the hospital and all of this noise and all the rest of it simply just adds to it. well, she's right. >> can i say , because one of the >> can i say, because one of the to come back to something that aaron said, if you if you had a, if you did get rid of open wars, i think more people would be cured more quickly by our hospitals. >> there you go, charles, he has beenin >> there you go, charles, he has been in touch saying, i'm telling you, michelle, central bank digital currencies are coming. mark, my words. he says, slippery slope, small steps in that general direction , you're

that general direction, you're not having any of that. someone else, please . michelle, can you else, please. michelle, can you get in touch and tell everyone to stop calling the state pension a benefit? it is not. people have earned it. she says. look, anyway, time flies. that's all we've got time for tonight. thank you very much for your company, aaron bastani. thank you for yours. and mr hitchens for yours. thank you for yours, michelle. thank you for each and every one of you for spending your hour with us. but don't go anywhere. farage up next and i'll see you tomorrow night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb. >> news . >> news. >> news. >> hi there, welcome to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news rain. for many of us over the next 24 hours. heavy in places once again, but there will be a few clear spells around, particularly in the far south and the far north, as this low pressure sends its frontal systems north. they will stall across northern ireland, southern scotland, northern england during the rest of the

day and that rain will turn heavy at times, especially for south—east scotland, northeast england, where there is the risk of localised flooding through the day on thursday because of the day on thursday because of the amount of rain we're expecting to fall further south. showers soon follow the main area of rain , a gusty wind and area of rain, a gusty wind and a mild night to come. a colder night for northern scotland where there will be some sunshine first thing on thursday. actually caithness, sutherland, western scotland the place to be for blue skies dunng place to be for blue skies during thursday morning. showers though, will start to move in from the north. some patchy cloud around through central scotland but south of the central belt . we've got a lot of central belt. we've got a lot of damp weather as well as for northern ireland. we'll see outbreaks of rain, but the heaviest rain will be affecting north wales and northern england. like i say , there's england. like i say, there's going to be some significant accumulations in places, particularly the north york moors and the pennines, through the morning and early afternoon to the south across parts of the midlands, east anglia, the south of england and south wales. a

mixture of sunny spells but also some blustery showers and some rumbles of thunder as well. these showers are going to be fairly lively, but we've got mild air moving back in 17 or 18 celsius whilst cold air affects northern parts of the country that cold air spreads south dunng that cold air spreads south during friday after some heavy rain first thing through the m4 corridor into the m5 as well could cause some problems during the morning rush, but that rain does move through and then brighter skies for many and a chill in the air as northerly winds arrive. so a cold start to the weekend. but saturday and sunday are looking much brighter with highs of 15 or 16 celsius looks like things are heating up . looks like things are heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> a very good evening to you. it's wednesday the 25th of september. i'm martin daubney covering for nigel farage now just a day after the prime minister promised he would house all military veterans in need, he admitted in an interview early today with gb news political editor christopher hope that he could not guarantee that asylum seekers would not take priority in the housing queue. veterans once again betrayed and a shocking story that's been broken within the last few hours. 37 prisoners have been wrongly released and the labour's prisoner release scheme, with five still yet to be put back behind bars. and france has joined germany's bid to get tough on migration. but its interior ministers are blaming brexit, of course, for the small boats crisis and are urging the uk to sign up to an eu asylum deal. all of that to come. but first, here's your news and here's mark