cameron walker? >> good evening. the time is 7:00. i'm cameron walker here in the gb newsroom and breaking news this evening. iran has launched nearly 200 missiles at israel. the attack is now over, according to the israeli military. but a spokesperson says it will have serious consequences. well, let's go straight to our homeland security editor , mark white. security editor, mark white. mark, what is the latest in this rapidly unfolding situation . rapidly unfolding situation. >> well, an indication of just how normalised the threats are in israel. the population are now being told that they can leave their air raid shelters, but stay close by in case, of course, they need to get back into those air raid shelters again. you're looking at now some earlier images of one of two waves of iranian ballistic missiles that rained down on israel. in fact, i've never seen

this before. the alert system that i have here that shows me about individual sirens that are going off the whole of the country was put into lockdown effectively. everyone told to get into an air raid shelter because they had no idea really where the missiles would be targeting. then it became clear that many of the missiles it seems, landed in open areas . we seems, landed in open areas. we had dramatic images of missiles raining down, and it looked as though we were seeing multiple impacts on the ground. but the iron dome system, and we're looking at those images now of these clearly missiles coming down and impacting. but as i say, the iron dome aerial ray system that protects against incoming aerial threats is so sophisticated that it can

project the trajectory of an incoming projectile and where it's due to land. and if it's landing in open territory, such as the negev desert, then it is allowed basically through to impact the ground, because clearly these defence systems that israel have are precious. they need to keep the missiles for the threats that are the missiles that are going to hit populated areas and cause real damage. so that's what we were seeing with these impacts, i think, on the ground, because we've just been hearing from rear admiral daniel hagari, who is israel's main military spokesperson. he said that he was not aware of any significant casualties as a result of these missile strikes. he said that a number of missiles did impact, but there appeared to be no

major issues in terms of damage or casualties. but of course, that could change as a proper assessment is carried out in the minutes and hours ahead. so 200 close to ballistic missiles were launched. this confirmed by the iranian regime as well, who again sent out a warning to israel to say that if israel responded, then it would escalate its response back towards israel once more. and thatis towards israel once more. and that is the real concern here, that is the real concern here, that we could see a for tat escalation, that there is no doubt that israel will respond in some manner. but quite what that response will be if you remember back in april of this yean remember back in april of this year, there was an unprecedented missile attack that took place

over from iran into israel in response to what they said was the israeli military targeting and killing two of their generals in the syrian capital, damascus , in an iranian embassy damascus, in an iranian embassy compound building there. so they launched 320 missiles, drones and ballistic missiles. at that point, as well, 99% of those were intercepted. now israel responded, but iran , it seems, responded, but iran, it seems, felt that that response they could live with. so that was it. there was and then there was tat and then it stopped. but depending on just how israel decides to respond now , then decides to respond now, then clearly there is the potential for it to escalate further. so the hope will have to be at this hour that as far as israel is concerned, they will respond. but they will respond in a

manner, perhaps, that iran can live with. because from israel's point of view , they're already point of view, they're already very engaged in the north of the country, taking the fight to the hezbollah terror group who have been launching over the past yean been launching over the past year, 8000 missiles and rockets into iranian into israeli territory. and israel has decided enough is enough. they are taking that fight to hezbollah to push them back, to degrade their capacity, to still pose a threat, to israel. so from israel's point of view , and from israel's point of view, and i'm sure the iranian government's point of view as well, they don't want a full fledged war between the two countries. so we can only hope that calmer heads prevail here. but tonight it is a very dangerous situation that we find ourselves in as we continue to look at those live images of tel aviv . aviv. >> okay. mark white, our home and security editor , thank you

and security editor, thank you for that and we will have more on this breaking news story throughout the evening. but for now, back to nigel farage for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> good evening . well, israel >> good evening. well, israel have had a very busy couple of weeks and many would say a highly successful couple of weeks taking out many senior commanders and they've been very, very busy in lebanon. but there had to be they just had to be a response from iran. and tonight earlier on, we saw it with a couple of hundred missiles being fired. and once again, the protective domes that tel aviv and jerusalem have appear to have been very effective. so kind of is that it? do iran launch another big

wave ? is there a danger of wave? is there a danger of escalation? just where does this whole thing go? joining me down the line is chris newton, defence analyst and, chris, one of the points that was made to me was earlier on this year, thousands of missiles were fired against israeli cities. so in one way, perhaps we could argue no great big news here. >> good evening. good evening. yeah i mean, this is the second iranian direct attack on israel. and as you write earlier, as you said, earlier on in the year, the in april , said, earlier on in the year, the in april, iran said, earlier on in the year, the in april , iran attacked the in april, iran attacked israel, sent around about 300 projectiles to israel. and what happenedin projectiles to israel. and what happened in in terms of the israeli response was that israel mounted a calibrated limited response attack, air strike against iran , against air against iran, against air

defences on one of its nuclear research facilities, and that was it. and for that round in april that, that, that was it. now the question is, is how do israel respond this time? does it mount another, calibrated limited attack? and, you know, it gives both sides to mount their show of force, their show of defiance, or do or does israel mount a more larger attack, to achieve escalation, dominance? >> well, i guess the answer to that, chris, is american intelligence will tell us before it happens, because it seems that everything that happens here, we're told by the americans first what it's going to be. >> yeah. and, and the us today again was, you know, was very much spot on in terms of, you know, very quickly telling us that there was going to be an iranian, attack . and within

iranian, attack. and within hours there was an iranian attack. so, so, so us intelligence seems to be extremely good. and of course, israeli intelligence has been extremely effective over , over extremely effective over, over the past few weeks. and especially with its strike and ultimate killing of the hezbollah leader, hassan nasrallah. >> chris, thank you very much indeed for joining >> chris, thank you very much indeed forjoining us for that indeed for joining us for that reaction. i now go to sir william patey, former uk ambassador to afghanistan , saudi ambassador to afghanistan, saudi arabia and indeed iraq. sir william , thank you for joining william, thank you for joining us at short notice. this evening. in some ways, in some ways, israel must have felt in the last few days that it was beginning to win by taking out so many senior military commanders and yet isn't the problem here that they'll just get replaced by a new generation? >> well, that's been the experience. every time nasrallah came to prominence as a young 30 year old, after they killed the

previous hezbollah leader, moussawi. so there will be other replacements ? i don't think replacements? i don't think they've lost quite so many people in quite such a short space of time. i think israel has seriously weakened hezbollah for sure, and that must be the israeli calculation that they're on a bit of a roll. they feel confident to ignore the president of the united states in calling for a ceasefire and a de—escalation, and the same calls that have come from british and other governments, the netanyahu government seems pretty confident that they can ignore that. so this escalation is one that has been predicted, as israel has ratcheted up its attacks on lebanon . attacks on lebanon. >> yeah. and i mean, israel, i presume, responds again in kind, but i mean, as someone that knows the region as intimately and for as long as you do, how worried are you about the risks of really large scale escalation ? of really large scale escalation? >> well, you know, it looks as

if and we'll have to wait and see. is this this attack has not been particularly effective that the israeli defence systems have performed well and have managed to shoot down most of the missiles, if that is the case, then we might get a more restrained response from israel. but if some of the missiles have got through and there were serious civilian casualties, we can expect a significant israeli response. and that in itself could lead to a, you know, a further iranian response. so we are in a dangerous period of possible escalation, which could lead to a wider war because, as your reports were saying, it could suck in the americans. the americans are committed to the defence of israel , as is the defence of israel, as is the united kingdom, so other countries could get sucked in if this this was to grow. iran doesn't want a direct war with israel, this is probably what they regard as the minimum, to respond after all, the what they

would regard as slight loss of face and direct attacks on their interests. >> sir william, thank you very much indeed. joining me tonight, my panel, joe phillips, former press secretary to paddy ashdown and claire purcell, press secretary to paddy ashdown and claire purcell , former spad and claire purcell, former spad to immigration minister caroline nokes. joe, as i say , it is the nokes. joe, as i say, it is the big news of the day. not that surprising in a way, though. >> not really. and i think, you know, it's absolutely true. this is exactly what happened in april. and i think, you know , we april. and i think, you know, we can wait and see what america does. but frankly, you know, there are five weeks away from an election. nobody much cares what joe biden or kamala harris or donald trump say at the moment, i mean, netanyahu certainly doesn't care about anybody . anybody. >> well, does does does netanyahu trust biden? >> well, probably not, because the americans were saying, well, you know , israel are going to go you know, israel are going to go into lebanon tomorrow. >> well, yes. >> well, yes. >> i mean, there is that but i mean, netanyahu was unbelievably ,

mean, netanyahu was unbelievably, he was actually offensive when he was actually offensive when he went to speak to the un at the weekend or last week. and, you know, and then they carried out the attack, which obviously they hadn't told america about at that time, and i think, you know , although people say who's know, although people say who's going to be drawn into it, hezbollah is extremely weakened with the death of hassan nasrallah, who is going to be his successor . as william peta his successor. as william peta just said . and where does that just said. and where does that leave iran , but it's all the leave iran, but it's all the other people around it. i mean, jordan tries to hold the centre of you know, some sort of not quite neutrality, but some sort of reason. but you've got people in syria who would be delighted to see the end of hezbollah because they have supported al—assad. >> so there's all sorts of. >> so there's all sorts of. >> where do you start? >> where do you start? >> i know, i know, and claire, you know, you're a conservative. this is rather overshadowed the conservative conference. >> well, the conservative conference, i don't think anybody is actually paying any attention to it. and when you've

got scenes like we're seeing with rockets coming over central tel aviv, then it's only right that we concentrate on that. i think the conservative party and their own little crisis of confidence can fade into the background, and i haven't heard any of it. >> i've not. i mean, perhaps i've missed it, but i've not really heard any of the four lead candidates to become the next conservative leader. even talking much about this, you haven't missed. >> no. well, i mean, it's interesting because you would have thought somebody like tom tugendhat would be straight up there and giving us the benefit of his wisdom, given that he has beenin of his wisdom, given that he has been in the armed forces. but no, unfortunately they haven't seen. >> i've been very surprised. well, talking of wisdom, i'm joined by the veteran defence edhoni joined by the veteran defence editor. i mean, i use the word veteran, robert fox. i'm old, the kindest, in the kindest possible way . i've taken it on possible way. i've taken it on the chin now i'm old. i'm in my 80th year. we're always delighted. breaking news. we're delighted. breaking news. we're delighted to have you in the studio. i guess in many ways the last couple of weeks has been pretty spectacularly successful for israel, but very difficult.

they're on, they're on a big gamble and i'm going to take issue with this discussion. >> this is not a rerun of what happened on april the 13th. the analysis of the flight of these weapons will be absolutely deep and searing, because they look as if they're different. and remember, some of those weapons took two hours to get from iran took two hours to get from iran to the targets designated in israel. this time we're talking about 12 minutes. 12 minutes. yeah and next time. and by the way, there will be a next time. it will be even shorter than that. and this is the problem. and i also rather step back. yeah, we can say , yabu about the yeah, we can say, yabu about the political personalities in the states. the states are and the british intelligence services are apprised of this. they're very worried about this. there is a synergy. hey, i haven't gone off my rocker. there's a synergy with ukraine. and what is the synergy is russia and

iran are upping the game with cyber and satellite guidance warfare. all these weapons depend on satellite guidance. and we've been watching , quite and we've been watching, quite rightly, iran's slowly ramping up of the nuclear arsenal. we have not been watching nearly carefully enough their space programs, which is not sending are the do the iranians sending their own satellites into space so they have their own expertise? >> yes. so they're further developed the battleground. >> and the battleground may well be within a year or two. gps and guidance systems like that. and thatis guidance systems like that. and that is the real worry. and i think that this is what the americans were of their informing the brits. and to an extent, the french. but it's the five eyes community. look, watch this one. and it's beginning to look like the outright confrontation between israel. sorry to bring you really bad. no no no no no. is a when and not if and that's why as you say netanyahu has been the most difficult ally of all. but

finally they have to go with it. i think the prospects are quite frightening. and that's why we've got a government here in the uk, which is completely frozen in its tracks. yeah, well, you would have expected a foreign secretary, a defence secretary, even a pm, to talk about what we can expect from this instead of saying we're sending a charter plane tomorrow into beirut. >> yeah. and i and robert, no , i >> yeah. and i and robert, no, i mean, they are very sobering words. i must admit, i hadn't realised that technologically, the iranians could do this stuff without support from somebody else, but they're doing it and promoting it with russia. >> and we've got to watch what russia is doing, because russia is saying and potentially doing very naughty things in space. we've seen that their proclivity of the putin regime to cancel treaties, the intermediate nuclear force treaty and the conventional forces europe, two things, but they're very important , things, but they're very important, obama and his predecessors got it to work. they got it to work with gorbachev and to an extent, with yeltsin. putin has said he's not

going to have anything to do with that. 1967 the, the outer space or the space security treaty, as it's called, saying, we will not weaponize space. and we've heard from putin land, we're thinking of putting nuclear weapons in space. this is not a fantasy. it's becoming extremely worrying . what is also extremely worrying. what is also worrying on the backside, you can say that, you know, he's raving. but whatever the vocabulary about nuclear warfare has become terribly cheap. people are talking about it. you get medvedev, the extremely capable deputy, because we've never we never heard this in the cold war. >> did we know there were never any threats from soviet russia? yeah. >> they're breaking the rules and shaping the rules. and this is why the collusion between tehran and moscow is worrying. it is there. moscow needs tehran's weapons. as we know, the intermediate missiles, two hundreds of them have got the drones, the shahid one, one, three, six. and what i'm wondering with this blow, you're

quite right. it has been struck at hezbollah. the favourite client, the favourite pal, the favourite cousin of tehran. are they trundling off to moscow and saying, come on, it's payback time. can you help us in our problem? so hold your breath. it's to all play for now. >> america. absolutely committed politically to the defence of israel . even if, you know biden israel. even if, you know biden isn't particularly trusted by netanyahu, but still, that american bond with israel. very, very great push comes to shove. do america intervene? >> i think america is trying to do and say a lot as you rightly said, that they tried to restrain . i don't think restrain. i don't think necessarily they tried to stop the land incursion into lebanon. this is very unclear. show a bit of restraint. don't they think, because they're very worried about the egregious level of collateral damage that we've seen?i collateral damage that we've seen? i mean, when they killed nasrallah, 80 bombs on a very densely populated part of south

beirut , densely populated part of south beirut, eight apartment blocks , beirut, eight apartment blocks, it really is very, very difficult. and sadly to say, as the americans look particularly for israel, actually, gaza is still unresolved and they have got an endemic chronic terrorist campaign to deal with. >> yeah, i mean, this is the problem. and i mentioned this to sir william petty a moment ago that however successful israel are at taking out enemy commanders, it seems in a in an endless conflict like this, there's always somebody else to fill the space. >> there's an awful thing to say. i think it was one of the cromwellians in the civil war. and it's a very good thing. instead of the king, you can lose many times you still remain king. i lose once and we all hang. and there is that slight megiddo. it's awful to raise this sacrifice thing of israel if we really screw up bad. and that's why october the 7th last year was such a shock, we could be in real trouble. and that's why people who are politically

very opposed to netanyahu, even people like benny gantz, moderate but strong military background, they are absolutely behind him with this. and actually they're behind the incursion into south lebanon . incursion into south lebanon. but where you are, right, and the absolute implication of all your questions is, where is the world system? and it was netanyahu. and, you know, i have some sympathy with starmer on this, saying , look, the un this, saying, look, the un mechanism is not working. and one of the biggest examples is resolution 1701 from 2006, in south lebanon. it's a complete nonsense. it never even started the disarming of hezbollah there and there. we are. watch this space. >> robert fox, brilliant as even >> robert fox, brilliant as ever. please. >> i just want to ask robert what he thinks about israel, whether they might be overextending slightly because there also have been attacking there also have been attacking the houthis, you know, the houthi rebels in yemen. and, you know, we've got these shipping lanes. and of course, iran controls the strait of hormuz

and all of that sort of stuff. all of those things will have a direct impact. >> i don't want to give you a tablet tabloid account about the attack on hudaydah. oh, they did what the brits and the americans wouldn't do because it's a big aid hunt, a hub. wouldn't do because it's a big aid hunt, a hub . why the aid hunt, a hub. why the israelis bombed hudaydah is simply this. it's exactly what i was explaining to nigel was that they're worried about the sophistication which is going up and up of the weapons from iran being used by the houthis, and also the tactics they're doing multiple attacks. we are not. thatis multiple attacks. we are not. that is the allied . the civil that is the allied. the civil world is not winning in the red sea and the arabian sea and the bab al—mandab. >> there's a lot to think about there. and it's very, very sobering indeed. thank you. in a moment we will talk about the conservative party conference, because some of you at home might care about it. probably not very many

it's the tory party conference and the four hopefuls will be giving their 20 minute speeches tomorrow. i have to say, i think they're deluded. they talk about things like are voters as if they have some sort of divine right to govern the centre right. they also seem to be completely obsessed with me and with getting back the reform vote. let's have a look at genenc vote. let's have a look at generic and cleverly today in action. >> my view of reform is this i think it's a symptom, not cause. >> it exists in its current state because we failed. and by that i don't mean you, the members of the party. i mean we in westminster, we made promises we didn't keep them. so i'm not going to disparage reform. i think in a way that's denigrating the millions of people who for vote them, who are our people? what i am going to do is set out with your

support to make them redundant, to retire nigel farage, he need to retire nigel farage, he need to demonstrate that we are a proper conservative party because reform is a pale imitation of us. >> we don't need to be a pale imitation of them. we need to be the best version of us. >> nigel farage, is he a tory? will you allow him in if he stops a tory? >> he's not a tory. he's not he. he never claims to be a tory. he said he hates the tories. he wants to destroy our party. he is not one of us. this is my family. this is my clan. these are the people i serve . are the people i serve. >> you know, they really, honestly, truly think. just pick a new leader. only the sixth since 2016. get a few new policies and hey, you know he bingo all be no problem. they'll win the next election. there seems to be no comprehension that their brand is broken. at least that's my view. claire pearsall you can't tell people in 2010 and 15, 17 and 19 that you're going to do a number of

things and not do them. >> no, you absolutely can't. and i think the one thing that they're missing when they keep going on about reform, or they keep going on about you or any of your other mps, what is it that makes them conservative? because what i want to hear is how the conservative party are going to be conservative, how they're going to lead, how they're going to lead, how they're going to put policies together and are they actually going to do stuff that the membership and the country wants? i think that all of this obsession with getting you to retire, congratulations. >> there's no chance of that. >> there's no chance of that. >> i can assure you. >> i can assure you. >> i can assure you. >> what is that obsession about? because all they're doing is going well. look over there. there's your problem. there's your problem without looking inside and saying, do you know what the problem is? us. >> it's a very fair point. now, whilst they obsess about votes lost to reform, there's also much talk about votes lost to the liberal democrats. >> and what was interesting, they don't want to retire ed davey. they didn't even mention them. >> it doesn't sort of i don't think ed davey cortes quite the level of controversy. i do, but i can't think why. but what was interesting was they may have only lost 7% of their vote to

the lib dems, but it was lost in a very targeted way geographically, you know, so theresa may yeah. tom tugendhat saying, look, you know, i'm the candidate that lib dems like the most. do you think the lib dems should fear the conservatives getting those votes back? >> i think the conservatives are so far away from getting the votes back from our people. whoever the hell they are. i know, i mean, it is so arrogance of it. it's so arrogant and there doesn't seem to be any, as claire says, any self—awareness of actually you completely screwed up over 14 years and whether or not you think, you know, keir starmer and the new government are doing very well, which i happen not to at the moment. actually, what they have inherited and what we are all paying inherited and what we are all paying the price for, whether it's housing, transport, money wasted and everything else is because of these people. the other thing i find astonishing about this conference is you don't really get to hear them very much apart from robert jenrick banging on about, the

european convention on human rights and this absolute nonsense about our armed forces, special forces, which he then couldn't answer. the question about, and kemi badenoch you know, attacking maternity pay. but where are the big speeches from the conference floor? where is this it? because that's what it looks like. >> well, i'm guessing we're going to get that tomorrow, aren't we? >> yeah, yeah, i think. who is it? well, it'll be the forum will be all four of them. >> but i mean, you know, the big speech, you know, because sunak came. >> oh well, there isn't going to be one as such. no, there isn't going to be one. but i mean, i mean, the there was a by—line in the telegraph today, you know, big beasts fight it out, but they're not really that big a beasts, are they? >> well, they're not, and we've kind of seen all of them before as well. so none of this is new because, you know, whichever round of the beauty contest that we've been through, most of those have been present through it. so we've heard from them. we know what they're going to be, you know, pretty much what they're going to be saying. so i

think that this is just the last sort of, you know, spit and poush sort of, you know, spit and polish moment to go to the membership. but the problem with conferences is that you're speaking to rooms of people that generally agree with you. if you're going to pay that to money go to a conference, you're not going to go there and say, actually, you're wrong. >> you should be saying many will be councillors and have position of something. >> absolutely. and what's quite interesting is that tom tugendhat has now polled better with younger conservatives, which is a demographic that we've struggled with for decades. let's be honest, membership tends to be a lot older, so if you're looking to attract new people into the party, some of those younger people do need to come up through the ranks and you want to make them feel welcome. and he seems to be doing that. but i think tomorrow's speech is largely most people won't tune in. i think most people will forget. we'll get a few headunes forget. we'll get a few headlines out of them. but when you're in opposition, you are largely going to be irrelevant. >> well, isn't this what happened to william hague in 97 that, you know, and hague, actually, i mean, to be fair to him, very witty, well—educated, erudite, a fabulous but kind of couldn't really make the news in the same way. >> as, you know, ming campbell

was a disastrous leader for the liberal democrats, you know, and hugely respected, a great parliamentarian, fantastic on defence and foreign affairs. but a disaster as a leader, and actually what they don't seem to be what the tories don't seem to recognise is that they need to be talking beyond their membership, their members point. and that's claire's point exactly. >> it's a room full of people that support you anyway. you know, it's ridiculous. well, i have to say, folks, i believe the brand. i think that's their problem. the brand is broken too many broken promises from just too many manifestos. i think they're going to find it really, really hard in a moment. let's have a look at the implications of our net zero policy, what it means for british industry, what it means for electricity prices, all of that just a

i'm going to keep returning to this story in the week that

harland and wolff, of course, the company that

harland and wolff, of course, the company itiat harland and wolff, of course, the company it will make us he also says it will make us more reliant on importing power from europe, and will impact upwardly on bills. joe phillips, just what do we think we're doing to ourselves? >> well, edf have keep coming out with these things and they did it actually a few months ago. also it doesn't mean they're wrong. no, it doesn't mean they're wrong. but they are pushing their own agenda. i think one always has to look at where a story comes from and where a story comes from and where it is placed. and this was actually, funnily enough, at the conservative conference. it was an event that edf were sponsoring, and what they're saying is that they can't meet the aims by 2030 because we won't have enough alternative. i mean, you know , there are mean, you know, there are several things here. one is, i suppose, on a sort of well, for the people of port talbot , it's the people of port talbot, it's an absolute disaster. it's ghastly, you know, 2000 people are losing their jobs. some of are losing theirjobs. some of them may get other jobs in are losing theirjobs. some of them may get otherjobs in new industries, but you can't put it

all on ed miliband and net zero. what you what you can do, nigel, is to look over the last 20, 25 years. we have increasingly de—industrialized and we haven't replaced it because we haven't been training people. >> we've de—industrialized because we're pursuing because of the net zero policies we're pursuing. >> i don't agree with that. >> i don't agree with that. >> why is our electricity so much more expensive than anywhere else in the world? >> well, mainly because of the energy companies making an absolute fortune, because we've got more renewables than anybody else. >> we've cut carbon emissions more than anybody else, which is great, and we should be pleased with that as long as we're prepared to close down industry and have our old people and poor people paying big bills, well, the industry being closed down is separate to this. >> some of it is part of it. but look at what's happening to car manufacturing in germany. >> the biggest single, the biggest single price, even above wages for all heavy industry is energy. and claire, i suppose you know, in a sense i can't really blame ed miliband because it was your lot that started all

this, wasn't it? >> but it was. and boris johnson and his obsession with getting to net zero, and it was always a bonkers strategy to start with. i don't think that anybody would suggest that you didn't need to look at alternatives, but you don't need to rush for some arbitrary date when the country isn't ready to do it, and you can't do it at the expense of businesses and industry and just general consumers, because we've all seen how expensive it is to heat our homes. we've all seen the effects of harsh winters and what's going to happen. the grid isn't going to be able to cope, and we're going to have blackouts. that's my prediction. this is how bad this is going to get, because this obsession with cutting it down, and we've given it all. >> we've set up the national energy system operator, another quango, another one which is going to run the whole thing absolutely beautifully. a final thought on this. we have to think about winter fuel payments in the context of all of this. and, you know, i've never really been for universal benefits, but it kind of seems to me that given just the sheer cost of our energy prices, is perhaps a very

good reason to not get rid of it. >> i think the policy of getting rid of giving it to people who can well afford not to have it is fine, but we could do that through a tax system, couldn't we? you could do it through a tax system. i think the way the labour party have handled it has been absolutely ridiculous. it's entirely of their own making. but in principle i don't have a problem with wealthy people. not getting an automatic benefit. it is quite ridiculous. >> nor do i actually. clare. and it could be if we raise the level it would cost money, but if we raise the level across the board at which people start to pay board at which people start to pay tax and we could say anybody that has to pay tax on a pension doesn't get the fuel allowance, surely, surely there's a better way of doing this, i think wrapping it up in the state pension. >> so it starts to reform what's going on with the state pension and put it onto that, because the minute you do, even those people that you think are wealthy would then get taxed on it. so that would bring in money, because at the moment this policy isn't going to bring

in anywhere near what labour thought it was going to because of the amount of people that are now going to claim pension credit that didn't do so previously. so it's a bit of a null and void point, and they've just handled it so incredibly badly. i mean, freezing granny at christmas is never going to be a good look. and if the tories have done it, they would have been screaming from the rooftops. yeah. >> well i think there's no doubt about that. there's no doubt about that. there's no doubt about it. final quick thought on this segment. another report out today saying that gdp per capita is falling again. this is something now like seven consecutive quarters in a row that the more the population goes up, living standards are falling in this country. are we finally going to get the message ? finally going to get the message? you did mention skills and training a moment ago. it's very relevant to this subject, isn't it? >> absolutely, absolutely. and one of the reasons, as i'm sure you would to love point out now, is because of the number of people coming to this country. there are thousands, tens of thousands stuck waiting to be processed. there are 137,000 cases on appeal that haven't been processed. part of the

problem is the backlog that was that we have to have mass migration tthe use was that we have to have mass migration tthe backlog that built up under the previous problem is the backlog that built up under the previous government . then rishi sunak government . then rishi sunak government. then rishi sunak called an election before he government. then rishi sunak called an election before he called an election before he called an election before he called the election, he made it called the election, he made it illegal for anybody or anyone illegal for anybody or anyone who had arrived illegally, who had arrived illegally, couldn't claim asylum, which put couldn't claim asylum, which put the whole system into total the whole system into good for staff . staff. >> that's part of it. but also we've got legal migration massively exploding the population as well. >> but, you know, some of these people could possibly be working. some of them might be trained engineers, carpenters , trained engineers, carpenters, electricians, it specialists, nurses. >> i suspect i suspect, i suspect very few. well no, no, i don't know. >> but i mean it's interesting we were talking about lebanon a little while ago, you know , little while ago, you know, there will be some sad reasons. there will be some. i remember when i was out there being dnven when i was out there being driven around by a taxi driver who was driving a taxi, but he was an engineer. >> but if we allow people to if we allow people to come illegally to work, goodness knows how many more will come. claire, you know, the one argument that kept being made to me during the conservative years was that we have to have mass

migration because migration because it's good for the economy, and we can now clearly see, as i say, going over the course of the last couple of years, that the bigger the population and that's driven almost entirely through migration into britain, the poorer we're becoming . poorer we're becoming. >> yeah. and i think it's you have to have that conversation about migration, and you have to have it in a really sensible manner, because there will have to be a cut off point. but also it goes back to the conversation that we've just had about what industry we also have left in this country, because if you aren't producing anything, if you aren't getting people out to work in those kind of places anyway, then how are you going to feed your own population, let alone anybody else coming in? so i think you need to look at it from both sides. yes, you need to look at migration. you have to look at migration. you have to have a serious conversation about who is coming in and why they're coming in, and not just letting anybody work. i mean, i think there are so many conversations. >> i think probably for another day, i think it begins to change the whole debate myself. my thanks to my panel now, did you know that from today, if you've got a couple of chickens in your

backyard, you have to register them. if you don't, it's going to be a criminal offence. in a moment, i'll talk to the boss of kelly's turkeys. i'll ask the question we know about bird flu, but isn't this too excessive

bird flu is horrid. i remember a day, a few years ago. 2 or 3 years ago, i was out off the cornish coast and seeing a trail of dead gannets coming past the boat and thinking, gosh, this is horrid. so we know that . but is horrid. so we know that. but is the law that's come in today not somewhat excessive? it says that if you keep poultry outside, even if it's a tiny number, even if it's just a couple of chickens, you have to register them or you face. and we're told very, very clearly on the dove gov.uk website that it is a

criminal offence not to register the chickens in your backyard. is this not completely and utterly over the top legislation? well, i'm joined by paul kelly, ceo of kelly, turkeys and paul. i can only imagine what the last few years has been like for you in that industry. with bird flu and number one, have we got bird flu now under control? and number two, is this legislation excessive or is it right? >> okay. in answer to your question one, nigel, have we got a bird flu under control? no, i don't think we have. i don't think you'll ever have bird flu under control as such. but we're not seeing the outbreaks that we were. we're not. it would seem as if the wild bird population maybe has got some sort of form of resistance. resistance there, or indeed, the virus may have burnt out a little bit. it's still there 100%. it's still there and it's not. if it comes back, it's when it comes back. and how badly will it come back? >> okay, now look, you know, obviously someone like you, you're terrified of the spread

of bird flu, but come on. i mean, somebody with a couple of chickens in the backyard having to register on pain. on pain of it being a criminal offence. i mean, isn't this over the top, >> and you know what? when it first came out, i was right. i was with you. i think this is just ridiculous, isn't it? it's bureaucracy gone mad. but when you. we were affected by bird flu, but when you actually have a look at the situation and defra apha, when you get an outbreak, they need to know all those flocks of chickens and turkeys or poultry that are in the area. so they can go and inspect and get things sorted very quickly because it's and it's for the good of the industry, really for the poultry industry, really for the poultry industry, because if they cannot lift those zones quickly, huge amounts of imports and exports , amounts of imports and exports, exports, i should say, are lost and movement restrictions just stop people doing business. and i agree with you. it would seem to be absolutely mad, wouldn't it? and it's a using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. but yeah, i can. i can assure you

it's all it's all for the right reasons. and none of is it for the wrong reasons. that really is the case. >> but but isn't the point, paul >> but but isn't the point, paul, that, you know, a wood pigeon could spread bird flu from one place to another? >> yeah. no, it is absolutely. and you will never you will never eliminate the risk. all you are doing here is reducing the risk. and trying to have as much control as possible. >> i would have thought wild mallards flying around were probably going to be a greater chance. an opportunity of spreading the virus than somebody with two chickens in their backyard. >> yeah, and that's that's the case. but you know what? wild mallards with bird flu don't fly. they die very, very quickly . fly. they die very, very quickly. so, you know, actually bears out there are flying and they're not spreading. they won't spread disease with bird flu because they won't be able to fly. they get sick so quickly and die so quickly. yeah. that's better. but of course wild bird is the number one form of infection. and that's the main method by which the disease does spread. but if we within an area can identify small nucleus flocks of poultry that people are the

biggest spreaders of it, people walking about and people going from one, you know, you've got some backyard chickens. you'll go to your friends up the road, they've got backyard chickens and it can spread very, very quickly. and it's just it's just trying to have as much control as possible. because two years ago, it was the covid of humans, except you wouldn't recover from it all. the poultry died. it was a disaster. >> and did poultry flocks have to be exterminated because of it, or or did they just die anyway? >> they died anyway. but what happens is, you know, they most of the flock would die within 36 hours of them, of the first one dying. but if the farm gets locked down and the carcases are disposed of or wrapped up. so when they are transported, they're not risk the virus isn't running the risk of infection. >> final thought paul, you know, we all think turkeys christmas. are we now eating turkey through broader parts of the year. >> yeah i mean turkey is a mainstream meat. you're right. it's turkey isn't just for christmas. and as a turkey farmer i have to say that. but

it really, really isn't. it's a very healthy meat and it should be eaten every week of the year. and it's available in every supermarket. how's that? >> right. okay. well i'm not really supposed to give you an advert like that, but i just did. paul kelly, thank you very much indeed forjoining us. my panelis much indeed forjoining us. my panel is still with me. quick thought slightly excessive. or is he right? >> no, i think he's right. he knows what he's talking about. and i think, you know, i'm sure lots of people who've only got a couple of chickens probably don't know about this legislation, but what he says makes sense. >> yeah. oh, dear. i can't bear it. i can't bear it. more laws. more criminal offences. >> yeah, i kind of understand his point, but i do think that we shouldn't prosecute people. let's not reach for heavy legislation on this. yeah. >> no, i think a sense of proportion, a sense of balance. and as joe quite rightly says, most people simply just won't know about this. now, friends of mine have been up at the conservative party conference. tell me that when the big four, the contenders to be the next leader, when they're walking around, you know, outside the main hall, you know, 1 or 2 people come up and chat to them.

there's only one real star up at the tory party conference. his name, of course, is sirjacob name, of course, is sir jacob rees—mogg, who joins me now live from birmingham. jacob, you're the most popular person there . the most popular person there. >> well, nigel, that's only because you're not here. last yean because you're not here. last year, everybody wanted to talk to you . and that seems to me to to you. and that seems to me to be so important because we've got to get ourselves together. the conservative party and reform have so much in common, and i've been talking about that quite a bit at the party conference and how we might be able to join forces, come together, help each other, be fraternal. >> jacob. that's okay. but the big four all seem to loathe me . big four all seem to loathe me. >> well, i'm sure they don't loathe you personally. nobody has ever met you and had a pint or a glass of wine with you. could loathe you or indeed a glass of champagne. so i expect they like you. really, jacob. >> thank you very much. jacob. from the conference where the

first. >> even though we'll see a cloudy start, it'll be a bright outlook for the rest of the day. >> boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hi there and welcome to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news drier. >> for many of us over the next 24 hours, clearest in the north, but elsewhere there will be still some cloud and some showers, especially across eastern and southeastern parts of england, as the area of low pressure responsible for all the rain over the last few days, slowly pulls away as it pulls away. we've got this cold wind coming in from the north sea to affect eastern parts of england, affect eastern parts of england, a lot of low cloud for the north and east of england, as well as the midlands, parts of east wales. and with that low cloud, some showery, drizzly rain at times. but in the far west and certainly across scotland and northern ireland, we've got clear skies and a chilly start to wednesday , but that's where to wednesday, but that's where the best of the sunshine will be. northern ireland much of scotland, blue skies from the

word go and having seen a few showers in the north—east of scotland during tuesday, it's a dner scotland during tuesday, it's a drier spell on wednesday and thursday here, with mostly just sunny spells and western scotland barely a cloud in sight. first thing 1 or 2 mist patches for northern ireland, otherwise largely fine. however, as we get into england and wales here we've got more extensive cloud cover and the rain that we started the week with. well, that's turned to showers. nevertheless, through the wash parts of norfolk, suffolk, perhaps kent will see quite a number of showers continuing through the day , along with through the day, along with a brisk northeast breeze and a lot of cloud that's going to make it feel considerably cooler than elsewhere across the uk. so low to mid teens on the east coast where we've got some sunny spells elsewhere. 15 to 17 celsius. we start thursday with widespread clear skies. still 1 or 2 showers through the day across the far southeast , but across the far southeast, but otherwise for many, it's simply a sunny day. best day of the

week widely across the uk and feeling pleasant enough in that sunshine with light winds as well. friday starts off on a similar note, but there will be some rain in the far west later, and an unsettled weekend to come. >> we'll see a cold snap which will quickly develop into a warm front. boxt boiler repairs sponsors

>> hello. good evening, it's me, jacob rees—mogg, live from the tory party conference in birmingham on state of the nation. tonight 200 missiles have been fired into israel from iran in what is the biggest escalation in the conflict yet. i'll be speaking to a defence analyst for all the details in a moment. the tory party leadership race is heating up, but with calls to do a deal. with reform reaching fever pitch as a shock, new poll suggests half the party won't come to an accommodation with nigel's

troops tonight . i will