gb news. >> good evening. today the beauty pageant. yes, the four hopefuls for the tory leadership had their presentations to the annual conservative party conference. tonight we debate who is going to win. did anybody go who is going to win. did anybody 9° up who is going to win. did anybody go up or down today? and keir starmer goes to brussels. yes. he does. it's all part of his eu reset. what did we learn from the speech he gave after the after the meeting. and a surge in migrant the speech he gave after the meeting. and a surge in migrant hiv cases in our country. this hiv cases in our country. this is people with hiv that have is people with hiv that have been born abroad. i've got to been born abroad. i've got to ask the question, is this really ask the question, is this really

what the national health service what the national health service is for? but before all of that, let's get the news with cameron walker . walker. >> good evening. the top stories from the gb newsroom. the prime minister's confirms there will be no return to freedom of movement in any reset of relations between the uk and the european union. sir keir starmer has been speaking at a press conference in brussels, where he is meeting european union chiefs with a promise to put the brexit years behind us and form a closer relationship with the bloc. it's his first visit to brussels as prime minister >> now, of course, there will be issues which are difficult to resolve and on areas on which we will "7” more than £6,000

is paying back more than £6,000 worth of gifts and hospitality received since he became prime minister. downing street has confirmed he's covering the costs of six taylor swift tickets for to the races, a and a clothing rental agreement with a clothing rental agreement with a high end designer favoured by his wife, lady victoria starmer. it comes after sir keir and other cabinet members, who vowed to clean up british politics, faced weeks of criticism for accepting tens of thousands of pounds worth of freebies from wealthy donors . president biden wealthy donors. president biden says he does not support strikes on iran's nuclear sites in response to its missile attack against israel. iran launched over 180 ballistic missiles at israel last night, which the united states president previously called ineffective. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has vowed that iran will face consequences, with some analysts suggesting israel's response could be forced more forceful this time, potentially targeting iran's nuclear or oil facilities. joe

biden has hinted at additional sanctions against iran . the sanctions against iran. the conservative leadership candidates have reflected on their general election defeat in their general election defeat in their final speeches at the party's conference in birmingham. tom tugendhat, james cleverly robert jenrick and kemi badenoch are all appealing to members in their bids to replace rishi sunak . and finally, the rishi sunak. and finally, the prince and princess of wales have met an aspiring teenage photographer with a rare and aggressive form of cancer. after inviting her to take pictures at william's windsor castle investiture. the princess, who has recently completed her own chemotherapy treatments and is a keen amateur photographer herself, was pictured hugging 16 year old liz from harrogate. in a personal message on social media. william and catherine said a pleasure to meet with liz at windsor today. a talented young photographer whose creativity and strength has inspired us both. thank you for sharing your photos and story with us. well, those are the latest gb news headlines for

now. i'm cameron walker. now it's back to nigel for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gb news. >> com forward slash alerts . >> com forward slash alerts. >> com forward slash alerts. >> good evening. now i know that two thirds of the country couldn't give a who becomes the next conservative leader. in fact, polling suggests a third of those that even voted conservative don't really care that much. but hey, it's happening and it's important. so who is going to win this contest? and did we learn any clues today? who's up? who's down? let's see a short clip from each of the four bit like someone teaching a—le each aography or physics bit like someone teaching a—le each of|raphy or physics bit like someone teaching a—le each of the 1y or physics bit like someone teaching a—le each of the four physics contestants in today's beauty from each of the four contestants in today's beauty pageant. >> and never forget reform pageant. >> and never forget reform didn't deliver brexit. we did didn't deliver brexit. we did reform didn't cut immigration, i reform didn't cut immigration, i

did. and mark my words, we will did. and mark my words, we will beat reform by being the best beat reform by being the best version of ourselves. version of ourselves. >> i will tell you what a >> i will tell you what a conservative is. someone who conservative is. someone who believes in britain , who believes in britain , who believes in britain, who believes in britain, who believes in britain, who believes in britain, who believes in britain, who believes in britain, who believes in limited government, who believes in free trade and believes in limited government, who believes in free trade and responsibility to others. now we responsibility to others. now we are not afraid of the future. i are not afraid of the future. i am for the country of magna am for the country of magna carta, of the habeas corpus of carta, of the habeas corpus of the bill of rights defending our the bill of rights defending our own freedoms and liberties . own freedoms and liberties . own freedoms and liberties. >> i am for finishing the job own freedoms and liberties. >> i am for finishing the job that we started with brexit and that we started with brexit and restoring to our people and our restoring to our people and our parliament. its sovereignty. parliament. its sovereignty. >> the conservatives have to be >> the conservatives have to be the party of wealth creation. the party of wealth creation. wealth is not a dirty word. it wealth is not a dirty word. it supports jobs and families. it supports jobs and families. it pays for our schools and our pays for our schools and our health service and we should health service and we should defend it. and encourage it. defend it. and encourage it. >> well, i watched all of that >> well, i watched all of that very, very carefully live my very, very carefully live my view was, i mean, tom tugendhat, view was, i mean, tom tugendhat, perfectly nice chap , a little perfectly nice chap , a little perfectly nice chap, a little bit like someone teaching perfectly nice chap, a little bit like someone teaching

a—level geography or physics a—level geography or physics or perhaps something like that. not exactly bursting with charisma. james cleverly i thought the content of what he said was absolute nonsense from my perspective, but i thought he delivered it really very, very well. here was somebody assured and experienced, didn't look nervous. i think, frankly, a very good performance from cleverly. now, when it comes to generic, the great brexiteer who voted remain. i mean basically basically he's trying to be nigel farage. now look , if you nigel farage. now look, if you want robert lessons in being nigel farage, i'm very happy to coach you. so of course in terms of policy i agreed with a lot of what he said myself. but i frankly thought he was a bit of a charisma free zone. and

got muscle memory for it. no wonder iwin?s got muscle memory for it. no wonder iwin? farage going to win? farage @gbnews .com. so jake berry is a former member of parliament and former chairman of the conservative party and lloyd russell—moyle, former labour member of parliament. jake what did you make of today? >> well , it's been

make of today? >> well, it's been a very frankly thought he was a bit of a charisma free zone.very then >> well, it's been a very interesting conference. i'm not interesting conference. i'm not sure how important it was sure how important it was because actually the only people because actually the only people who are going to have a vote on who are going to have a vote on whittling these four tory titans whittling these four tory titans to down two are the mps and to down two are the mps and frankly, titans. well frankly, frankly, titans. well frankly, nigel, i didn't see many nigel, i didn't see many colleagues at conference. i was colleagues at conference. i was there, i went for a day and a there, i went for a day and a half, a couple of days. yeah. half, a couple of days. yeah. there were there weren't that many there. look at the there were there weren't that many there. look at the conference. tom tugendhat, conference. tom tugendhat, undoubtedly, in my view, someone undoubtedly, in my view, someone i'm supporting had the best i'm supporting had the best conference. there was a buzz conference. there was a buzz about him . the members event he about him . the members event he about him. the members event he did was was packed. look, i about him. the members event he did was was packed. look, i don't think he was the best don't think he was the best performer today, but i don't performer today, but i don't think that particularly matters. think that particularly matters. james cleverly is great, to be james cleverly is great, to be honest, i would say. is this honest, i would say. is this tom? tom? >> tom looked nervous. i >> tom looked nervous. i thought, well, of course he's thought, well, of course he's nervous. >> he's, you know, it's the nervous. >> he's, you know, it's the official opposition. they're standing for a really important official opposition. they're standing for a really important job as you say. and what i would job as you say. and what i would say is this, i think the mistake say is this, i think the mistake you made, i love james, he's you made, i love james, he's fantastic. he's party chairman, fantastic. he's party chairman, just like me. he's very just like me. he's very polished. it was a good polished. it was a good performance today, but he stood performance today, but he stood on that stage, i think half a on thatrobert e em dozen times or more and made that speech to conference. he's got muscle memory for it. no

wonder he was terms of the mps, we want a real choice. we want someone who's more of a centrist and someone who's more right. if so, that's what i think will happen. if tom goes out next, then i think james will make the last two. i

think it's tom moore james performance today, but he stood on thatrobertjenricke— performance today, but he stood on thatrobert jenrick and versus robert jenrick and versus robert jenrick and jenrick. you know, bobby jay, jenrick. you know, bobby jay, you know i know, i know , i mean you know i know, i know , i mean you know i know, i know, i mean ihave you know i know, i know, i mean i have to say he was trying ever you know i know, i know, i mean ihave you know i know, i know, i mean i have to say he was trying ever so hard the arms were whirring so hard the arms were whirring around. around. >> i mean is this conversion to >> i mean is this conversion to reform style policies. is it reform style policies. is it real. real. >> well i've seen it quite a lot >> well i've seen it quite a lot with colleagues, i must say. with colleagues, i must say. i've been on a bit of a journey i've been on a bit of a journey myself, as people say, because myself, as people say, because the more time you spend in the more time you spend in government, the more you realise government, the more you realise that the only thing you really that the only thing you really want to do is tear the whole want to do is tear the whole place down and start again. so place down and start again. so i'm sure it is real. i just, i'm sure it is real. i just, i'm sure it is real. ijust, i don't think the conservative i'm sure it is real. ijust, i don't think the conservative party can out reform reform you party can out reform reform you are going to outflank us on are going to outflank us on immigration, you are probably immigration, you are probably going to outflank us on culture going to outflank us on culture wars. so we've got to be really wars. so we've got to be really careful that when we choose the careful that when we choose the next leader, we don't try and next leader, we don't try and become a reform light or a become a reform light or a pressure group on immigration or pressure group on immigration or culture wars because you don't culture wars because you don't win elections from that win elections from that position, you can do remarkably position, you can do remarkably well. and reform did amazingly well. and reform did amazingly at the last general election, at the last general election, but you won five mps. we can but you won five mps. we can have an argument about whether have an argument about whether the electoral system is fair. the electoral system is fair. i'm sure it's not. not today. i i'm sure it's not. not today. i know it's not. not today. but, know it's not. not today. but, you know, we've got to not fall you know, we've got to not fall

into the trap we want a real into the trap that the labour party fell into, which is elect someone who makes you feel good and agrees with lots of your views in jeremy corbyn, but then proves to be electorally unpopular. we need we need the whole rounded political person whole rounded political person who can win back from the lib dems, win back from reform and crucially, win back from labour. >> so it's very interesting. you say that because i actually think there's a realignment going on in politics across the western world, and that people who vote for centre right parties now tend to have much stronger feelings and opinions than they had before. so i think this idea that you can win back voters from all of those different leakages, i think it's for the birds. >> jake . but of course, i think >> jake. but of course, i think it's 80 seats in the country where reforms in second place to the labour party . so i'm sure the labour party. so i'm sure part of reform's electoral strategy is to try and win votes from the labour party. so you don't necessarily think it's for the birds because it's actually your strategy? >> no no no no no. our strategy is to recognise that the centre right of politics now in the western world actually is more working class than middle class, and that's the fundamental change. and people who've gone to reform or gone to the lib dems from your party, very tough

to get them both back. >> well, time will tell. >> well, time will tell. >> well, time will tell. >> well, it is lloyd who's the one that labour would fear. do you think of those four or none of them? >> well, it's very difficult. i have a feeling that it might be electing the next leader of the opposition, but not necessarily the next prime minister. and we saw this, there was a i understand that there was a joke going around a conservative party conference where people were asking who were different cabinet members in last time the conservatives were in opposition and people couldn't remember who was the shadow chancellors, who were the because they all disappear into into nothingness really after a while. and i suspect that might be the case this time. i don't think it's going to be easy for labour to win the next election either. but i do think that at the moment the odds are not stacked in the conservatives favour. i personally think a moderate makes it harder for labour so cleverly. yeah, and i think i think a yes and i think a, a

cleverly or a tugendhat and i think a kind of brexit party reform party lite person actually i'm

leader since 2016. i'm struggling to keep up. to keep up. struggling to keep up. >> i don't know about you, >> i don't know about you, nigel. >> how many housing ministers nigel. >> how many housing ministers there ? there? >> it's. it's almost like the there ? there? >> it's. it's almost like the worst days of the of the ukip worst days of the of the ukip party, isn't it? >> well, yes, but i think by the party, isn't it? >> well, yes, but i think by the time that happened, they time that happened, they probably. >> you were well out. you were. probably. >> you were well out. you were. well, they'd probably served well, they'd probably served their purpose. >> the point i'm making is it their purpose. >> the point i'm making is it doesn't really matter who the doesn't really matter who the next leader is. it doesn't next leader is. it doesn't really matter what the new set really matter what the new set of policies are. isn't the truth of policies are. isn't the truth of policies are. isn't the truth of it that for now and for some of policies are. isn't the truth of it that for now and for some years to come, that the years to come, that the conservative brand is broken, that those people that voted for conservative brand is broken, that those people that voted for it in 2019, of the 50% that it in 2019, of the 50% that left, most of them actually feel left, most of them actually feel betrayed by the conservative betrayed by the conservative party and loathe it. the brand party and loathe it. the brand is now the problem. is now the problem. >> absolutely. at the moment, >> absolutely. at the moment, it's absolutely the problem. it's absolutely the problem. five years is a long time in five years is a long time in politics, and there is the politics, and there is the opportunity for whoever the next opportunity for whoever the next leader is, and i hope they do, leader is, and i hope they do, to rebuild that brand. one of to rebuild that brand. one of the challenges with the the challenges with the leadership election, you sort of leadership election, you sort of heard it from quite a lot of the heard it from quite a lot of the candidates, is their message is, candidates, is their message is, well, actually the problem with well, actually the problem with the election is we didn't shout the election is we didn't shout

loud enough. well, in fact, the loud enough. well, in fact, the real problem is it didn't matter how loud we shouted, no one was listening because we trashed our own brand. so the first job of any leader is to work out how

but it also doesn't help. >> but it also doesn't help. i mean, boris actually did disappear a little bit, able to rebuild his image. it doesn't really help that liz truss is still rattling around making interventions every now and again, because it kind of reminds people about the wrecking of the conservative brand. and you kind of need her to disappear a bit more than she has obe to be able to rebuild. >> i don't think just she wrecked the conservative. no, no, no. >> but i mean , i assume that >> but i mean, i assume that rishi will go off to california . rishi will go off to california. you won't see him again, you know, boris has kept a bit quiet and is rebuilding his brand in a different kind of way. but liz is kind of hanging around there , is kind of hanging around there, and i'm not sure that that's particularly helpful. i do wonder if a canadian solution might be the only way forward. and we know what the canadian solution is. the conservative progressive conservative party ruined their brand, were destroyed, and a party called reform, i think i think something like that, you know, i'm so i'm so i'm so relieved that you didn't say a switzerland solution, though, which would have been absolutely terminal. >> well, enough of that. let's

talk about the labour party. let's talk about keir starmer's visit to brussels and the £6,000 that apparently he is repaying of the donations he took from lord alli. all of that

break. >> this sunday, join me camilla tominey for an exclusive interview with one of the most controversial , influential and controversial, influential and unique political figures of our time. borisjohnson unique political figures of our time. boris johnson will be in studio discussing his new memoir, unleashed, the gripping story of how he dealt with plotting politicians problematic princes and a pandemic. from bofis princes and a pandemic. from boris bikes to brexit and everything else in between. this sunday at 9:30 am, only on gb news, the people's channel. britain's news channel . britain's news channel. >> well, some of your reactions at home to this gripping conservative leadership contest.

tammy says who cares? the conservatives will only stab the winner in the back and then replace them. that's what they do. and that's why they lost the election. they should have kept bofis election. they should have kept boris and they would have won again . no, i don't think they again. no, i don't think they would have done personally, george says nigel, i have a hunch that kemi badenoch will have the greatest appeal to younger voters. may be true, but what i did think was interesting, looking at the clips of the conference and reports from people that have been there, it does appear it does appear that your man is getting the support of the younger people. >> yeah, i told him he really was in the conference. he was mobbed everywhere, really quite interesting. he had an event and everyone couldn't get into it. he had to literally go outside and address them on a soapbox to tell them what he was going to say. >> struck me as being interesting. final thought from you at home, john says, got to be generic. he's pretty sensible, surely not cleverly, he's too full of himself. kemi thinks she's cleopatra and sukh on heart will say anything to get it. oh i love these responses. now, now, now now now

responses. now, now, now now now now. responses. now, now, now now now now. keir starmer goes off to brussels today to meet to meet the bigwigs, saying he wants to put the brexit years behind us. what on earth does that mean? here he was at the press conference afterwards. >> now of course, there will be issues which are difficult to resolve and on areas on which we will stand firm, there will be no return to freedom of movement, no return to the customs union, no return to the single market, but we will find constructive ways to work together and deliver for the british people . british people. >> so the one real difference that i >> so the one real difference thati can >> so the one real difference that i can see between the last government and this government is on matters of the european defence union, where clearly labour want to be more involved . labour want to be more involved. but what does it all mean , but what does it all mean, lloyd? i mean, if we're not so we're not going to rejoin any of these things. so how's the relationship going to change? >> it is interesting that it was

the european defence aspects, which were the controversial parts of the lisbon treaty and the european constitution. that meant it all fell apart and it was britain that was saying, we want no european defence co—ordination. that's what nato is for. it's very interesting now that it seems to all be forgotten, and suddenly that's the bit that we're happy to go in on. >> i haven't forgotten it. i can assure you, but that's the narrative. >> we're happy to go in on that because ukraine seems to have changed the well, is the implication, therefore, that nato is not working or that people are worried about what's going to happen in america? that means that they want to create an alternative structure. i'm not sure alternative structures are very good, and particularly an alternative structure that will be controlled by the european union. and we will be a kind of semi voting member of having a say, but not a say either in or out. i mean, you've got to decide. but on freedom of movement stuff, i think that at the moment he's got his rhetoric slightly muddled up with some of the youth mobility programmes, because you can have youth mobility without freedom of movement. we have youth mobility

with australia, we have youth mobility with japan. the eu has a youth mobility programme with with albania. but has still requires visas into the schengen area. so i think that there will be some programmes like that that they will find workarounds that they will find workarounds that they will find workarounds that they say we're going to re—engage in those bits, youth mobility to me is a clear one because it's the kind of it's the nice bit that people enjoyed, but that does not make it. >> does that make it the thin end of the wedge? does it mean that you do that and then you move on to more and more? >> well, you move on to more and more. as long as you're not breaking those three lines and you can have freedom of movement. so you don't have to have freedom of movement, but you can have some kind of youth mobility visa scheme, which allows young people to come like australians do for two years, but they have to be out after the two years, so you can do things like that, that do suddenly put your relationship closer together. but as soon as you start to talk about trade, let's be honest. as soon as you start to talk about trade, you have to make a choice. do you want to diverge or do you want

to converge? and if you're on the converging stream, that is fine, but you are then on the stream of being a rule taker, not a rule maker. >> no, i know, and actually my biggest criticism, one of my biggest criticism, one of my biggest criticisms of the conservatives since brexit was finally, finally delivered is we haven't really diverged at all, haven't really diverged at all, have we? >> no, we haven't, but we have got the ability to do it now let's look at what keir starmer actually said himself in his manifesto about what should happen with the european union. he said every single part of the brexit deal needs renegotiation, whether that's free movement , whether that's free movement, whether that's free movement, whether that's free movement, whether that's joining the european army, whatever it made his own manifesto says he is going to renegotiate every single part of the brexit deal. and do not forget that that deal , and do not forget that that deal, conveniently enough for him, comes up for review in 2026. and what this is, i'm sorry, russell, but you know what? this is , is softening the british is, is softening the british pubuc is, is softening the british public up with nice things. kwarteng. we all want our kids to be able to go and study in spain and portugal and wherever else it may be. germany. in germany it is softening the british public up. he and his

civil service chums . now they've civil service chums. now they've got a year to work on us for. ultimately, in my view, a brexit betrayal in 2026. that's what they said they wanted to do in their manifesto, is change. every part of the brexit. >> let's assume that jake's right, but that would give him a huge problem with those 4 million labour voters that are quite strong brexiteers. >> yes, it would give a problem unless you can show that you are , unless you can show that you are, cashing in some of the brexit dividend. so, for example, you could change some of the finance regulations in the city. the eu regulations in the city. the eu regulations have stopped the ability for research to be bundled together with investment, which is a complete nightmare for investment because it means you've got to separately decide to pay for the research to know what bit of the investment you want to invest in and what where the trends are, and what where the trends are, and it means you're getting worse kinds of investments. it would give britain a competitive advantage if he were to allow rebundling of that, it would go against the eu rules. but you could quite easily make a case that on goods and services we

want some conversion, but we're going to get the divergence. do you think he'd do that on some of those other things? do you really think he'd do that? i think he could legitimately say, actually, i have cashed in on the bits that we needed to cash in on, but the bits that we didn't really need, because we all want our our electronic goods to be of a safety standard. i'm happy to take lloyd if he does it, it would be the strategy if he was to do that politically, that would be very, very clever and you might buy off. >> but i, i mean, obviously, you know, he's the man that wanted a second referendum. he didn't respect the result of the first one, the instincts of those at the top of the labour party are remainer, straight, rejoiner, so i'm going to watch it very, very carefully. >> it's the instincts of the people at the top of government. i mean, you know, there's one party that really won the last general election. it wins every single time. it's called the civil service. and until you actually change that, you will have this remain establishment who have never forgiven the british people for voting for brexit. >> sticking with starmer, he's lord alli. we here is now going to be investigated by the standards board of the house of

lords for not making proper declarations, and the prime minister has agreed to repay £6,000 worth of gifts that he's received since he was prime minister. he's in a bit of trouble over this, isn't he? because you know, he was he's really been giving us for the last couple of years the holier than thou. i'm different. i'm going to change politics. it's not a good look , is it? not a good look, is it? >> well, i think it is not a good look if you dig your heels in. and what we saw with the last government, if you remember when they were trying to then change the rules last minute when commissions were saying that their mps had lobbied, etc, was that it looked like people were trying to cover it up after the effect. i think if he repays it draws a line under it, the country will probably quickly forget the worst thing is, is to allow it to rumble on. so that's why he's decided to pay the money back and to make sure the rules are changed. so there's greater transparency going forward. now, as i've said on this program before, i actually think some of it is slightly

over rated. the reason we have this declaration system is to try and stop people buying influence. i'm not sure lord alli, who's a labour peer already already at the centre of the project , already in the the project, already in the inner circle, was buying influence by it. i think that he was just helping his friends out. the problem is that it is impossible to draw a line between someone who's buying influence and helping your friends. >> he's got an awful lot of friends, hasn't he? >> he has. i mean, he's paid far more bigger amounts of money to other people, i mean, in the millions to some other people, i think i think that as long as there is a clear trail, i don't think there is a problem necessarily with these things. and we've seen that i don't begrudge keir starmer getting a box at arsenal because for him to sit in the stands will be absolutely ridiculous. >> but all this stuff did the tory party huge damage over the years? this has hurt starmer, hasn't it? >> i think it has. and the thing is that i saw pat fadem was out this weekend saying these were political donations. they

absolutely were not. a political donation is made to a political party and once the political party and once the political party receives it, they can pretty much spend it on whatever they want. and it isn't. declarable. lord alli, for whatever reason, decided to make these donations directly to these donations directly to these individuals. the prime minister the chancellor, the deputy prime minister. now, i wouldn't like to get into speculating as to why he would prefer to have a direct relationship giving money to people rather than access to a political party and access to number 10. >> number 10 is a very, very different thing. and why this is so bad. >> these donations were i have a flat that's sitting empty, come and use it. we all have had friends. we all have had friends. >> i don't have any friends who have an £18 million, not an £18 million. >> if you're watching, i've got friends who have got a spare bedroom. you know, when i lost, when i was got rid of, you know, kind of i had friends, you know, a friend in sheffield who has a small little flat said, if you need to get away from it all because it's all a bit stressful. lloyd come up to sheffield and you can crash on my spare room. i didn't take her up on that. but i think you

didn't. >> you didn't do zoom calls from sort of letting people believe it was actually your house. >> so i think i think that, again, we need to cut some of this. >> the fact that he's got unlimited access to number 10 is most unusual. >> well, hard. >> well, hard. >> well, hard. >> well, he briefly had a path to number 10 until it was exposed. but at the moment it's not a good look. it's look, if he's a member of the party already, i think the donations of things like glasses and clothes and tickets to taylor swift, which are not from lord alli, i understand these are from other people that i think is not a good look. keir's glasses look identical in my eyes to my glasses and i got mine from specsavers. there you are. so i do wonder you are focusing on that on that advertisement, which we're not supposed to do on this show but never mind. >> in a moment we will discuss a 17 year. can you believe it backlog in some asylum cases and a surge in hiv cases in this country of people born overseas. why? and is that what

now this is a subject that got me into terrible trouble in the 2015 general election. during the leader's debate with ed miliband and david cameron. this is what i said. i mentioned health tourism. okay, here's a fact. and i'm sure the other people who will be mortified that i dare to talk about it, there are 7000 diagnoses in this country every year for people who are hiv positive, which is not a good place for any of them to be, i know, but 60% of them are not british nationals. you can come into britain from anywhere in the world and get diagnosed with hiv and get the retroviral drugs that cost up to £25,000 per year per patient . £25,000 per year per patient. well, of course, the howls of condemnation that came down upon me have made it very difficult to talk about this subject, but once again, this subject is back. as migrants fuel a surge in hiv cases to a 15 year high.

now, when we say migrants , these now, when we say migrants, these are people that were born overseas. and i just ask the simple question, as i did then, is this what the national health service is actually for ? lloyd service is actually for? lloyd russell—moyle, you've studied this, you've looked at this. what does it mean, this surge in numbers? >> again? well, there's two elements of the overall numbers of people being diagnosed have increased. and out of that increased. and out of that increase it comes from two areas. one are people who are born outside of britain but are now in britain. and another way of cutting the pie to look at the surge of increase is people who contracted hiv outside of britain. now, we don't know. these people could be british citizens. they could have been people who have been here a long time. but the increase is interesting, isn't it? and the increase is from that group of people. now, what we have to do when you see any increase is you have to look to see where testing or the data source has changed and what we changed last yearis

changed and what we changed last year is doing routine testing of everyone that goes into a&e in our cities and big towns now is automatically diagnosed with hiv, whereas before you would have to have gone to a sexual health clinic or effectively pregnant woman. >> so we're discovering more cases. >> we are discovering more cases, and it's unsurprising that those cases are people that in the past weren't comfortable with going to sexual health clinics , and they tend to be, clinics, and they tend to be, black and ethnic minority people who are heterosexual because they assume i don't need to go and get a test in the same way that gay bisexual men do, or people who are sexually active and who have gone through the education system in the uk, who might understand that you go to a sexual health clinic before you need to. so out of that number, it might not be the migrants who are arriving as we speak. and it might well be actually a very positive thing that we are catching those people. and it stops. of course, them transmitting it, because as soon as you are on treatment, you can't pass it on anymore and

you can't pass it on anymore and you stop the transmission. and our aim in the uk is to treat everyone and so that by 2030 we have no home grown , yeah, have no home grown, yeah, passing hiv on. >> is it the job of the national health service to provide care for people like this? >> well, absolutely. it is . if >> well, absolutely. it is. if they're in the united kingdom and they're british citizens, if they what if they what if they're here illegally? well look, i mean, that is a much, much bigger debate. i think one of the positive things about this is that sick people are getting treated. and i think that's what the nhs is there to do. there's a much wider debate about immigration and should the nhs it should. the minute you arrive in this country, you immediately be entitled to free healthcare. that is the law. as it is. people have their own view about that. my view is actually there's probably no way you can ration it. so what we've actually got to do is defend our borders, stop people coming to this country illegally and prevent it that way, and give the government to step up and make that happen. what i think is really interesting about this

is really interesting about this is it's so stark, isn't it? it's the 53% increase in diagnosis in a year, which may well be this change of the law, which lloyd explained the government did. but why that is, and i was very concerned to see that ambition, which we all share, to have zero transmission by 2030, the experts say, is being put at risk after this big spike. >> well, we also need more data. we need more data. we need to find out. and by the way, getting any data out of this government is difficult. but we do need more data. >> i think there is a question also about how most countries deal with infectious diseases. so there's a difference between should people have access to everything on the nhs and with certain infectious diseases that it's a public health issue to try and make sure tb, hiv , other try and make sure tb, hiv, other diseases? my view is, and even in the us, these are diseases that are treated freely by the pubuc that are treated freely by the public health system of the us. and most people think that the us is a pay for system because they understand that it is a pubuc they understand that it is a public health issue. >> there'll be many people watching this now and listening to this now saying, i've paid my taxes for years and i can't even see a gp, but let's move on to

another subject. okay, 447 inmates were released from scottish prisons in four tranches over the course of this summer. and guess what? 57 have re—offended been reconvicted and are back behind bars. this is and all of this lloyd, for chucking people in prisons who say nasty things on facebook. this is terrible. >> well, that reoffending rate over 10% is terrible and it surprises me the categories of people that they have released. look, if someone has committed some minor order offences , okay, some minor order offences, okay, early release programs seem to be understandable, but some of that list were of violent offences or sexual offences. and my view is that those offences i am shocked that they are being released now. clearly we should have built prisons, but we have discussed on this programme again before. there needs to be again before. there needs to be a reconsideration of what kind of offences have certain kinds of offences have certain kinds of prison sentences at the

moment, because i think we have got ourselves in a muddle where the wrong kind of offences that the wrong kind of offences that the public no longer see as really important offences versus offences that people do see as really important. i tell you what, are not getting jail time. >> one thing i will praise this government for is saying they're going to decriminalise those that don't pay the bbc licence fee, because many women have gone to prison over the last couple of decades for non—payment of the bbc licence fee. jake, this is all your fault. you left it in a terrible mess. >> well, we did actually build, i think it was two if not three new prisons during the last government. so we are building more prisons and we did build more prisons and we did build more prisons. look, the truth is that you know the wrong categories of prisoners have been let out. if you let out violent offenders, then they will probably continue being violent offenders. i'm actually quite surprised it's so low and quite surprised it's so low and quite surprised it's 10%. if you look at some of the people who've been let out, they've only had a couple of months. >> well, i know, but i'm still quite surprised. >> they thought it would be higher. >> now, the people we know who have been caught well, they're the ones who've been caught. >> the wrong people have been

let out. and we've got to have a debate about what prison is for. i actually take the view, like michael howard did. prison works, and there is a big part of prison that is just removing dangerous and nasty people from society, keeping them away from you and allowing decent, law abiding people to get on with their lives without fear. and thatis their lives without fear. and that is what we've lost by this early release since since the 19805, early release since since the 1980s, we have lost 100,000 places in secure mental health hospitals. >> and we have. i'm afraid not, increased prison places. and there is a correlation between people who needed not necessarily prison, but they did need secure mental health. and i'm not saying all people with mental health problems, of course, are criminals, but this is the whole care in the community debate. >> lloyd , isn't it? >> lloyd, isn't it? >> lloyd, isn't it? >> but we do know that there is a good proportion of people who are in prisons at the moment who actually need permanent , secure, actually need permanent, secure, arrangements which even when they are released, they will need permanent youth arrangements. >> do you think care in the community is failing? >> i think care in the community with austerity has failed, and i think that there is some

elements of care in the community that was nice and woolly, woolly kind of thinking, but actually it doesn't always work . and there will be some work. and there will be some people, i'm afraid, and we just need to be accepting of this, that we'll need secure accommodation. >> final thought on this to jake berry , the alternative to care berry, the alternative to care in the community. and yes, there are compromises to be found is institutions putting people in institutions putting people in institutions for the rest of their life. so i don't think it's difficult, isn't it? >> i don't think anyone wants to go back to the old asylum, as they once known, but i think we have to accept that something is going very badly wrong with mental health in this country, and i hope what the government will do is look at other countries around the world, which have a more nuanced approach, as we've tried to set out on the show this evening. and actually, that is better for those individuals, and it's better for society because it helps keep us safe. >> i'm going to draw stumps and say thank you to jake and lloyd for joining me this evening. in a moment. we've debated it before. it's the trophy hunting ban. it's coming back to parliament. but actually, is it

going to benefit animals and communities in africa, or could it actually do them

in the last parliament, a private member's bill was brought in by henry smith, then the conservative member of parliament. for crawley, it was the hunting trophies import prohibition bill, but it ran out of time. it didn't happen, but it was brought back by labour mp john spellar. now, normally at the end of a parliament, anything like this that hasn't gone through just dies. it's run out of time . but john spellar is out of time. but john spellar is now in the lords. he's brought it back. so this is going to come back for a vote next week. and it would mean that people going to africa or other parts of the world who were shooting animals and wanted their heads put on a trophy and brought back to britain, would not be allowed to britain, would not be allowed to do so . but i wonder, and i've to do so. but i wonder, and i've always wondered , will this always wondered, will this

really be a benefit to those communities, particularly in africa, where one person who thinks it may not be is professor amy dickman, co—author of the study that came from oxford and professor of wildlife conservation at the oxford university and contrary to what many say, amy, you think that the trophy hunting ban would have a bad effect on african wildlife and african communities? >> yes. and it's important to note that this isn't just an african issue. trophy hunting occurs all the way around the globe, but it tends to be focused on africa. i think because we have this very disneyfied image of africa and as you say, the analysis that shows about this, this was framed very much as a conservation issue. and i think it's true that most people would support a trophy hunting ban if they think it would actually help conservation, which is the line they've been told by lobby groups, etc. we thought it was very important on these contentious issues to actually look at the evidence that underpins this. and so we looked at the data. we found that actually of all the species that

were imported to the uk since 2000, trophy hunting was not a key threat to a single one of them. and actually it had benefits to around 20 species that were imported. so it's very and it has far wider benefits because trophy hunting brings in important revenue to these countries. as you say , it has countries. as you say, it has important benefits then for local communities through jobs, revenue meets, etc. and also critically for that wildlife , it critically for that wildlife, it helps incentivise the maintenance of huge areas of wild land and to fund anti—poaching and the key threats to species are habitat loss and poaching. not trophy hunting. and we are very worried that this kind of bill could do far more harm than good. and that's not what it's been sold at by the previous government or this one. >> amy. thank you for making the case. joining me is henry smith, the original promoter of this legislation. is your objection to trophy hunting a sort of a moral objection ? is it? people moral objection? is it? people shouldn't be allowed to behave like this. >> this is about stopping endangered species being killed and their body parts being

imported into this country. >> so it's both about conservation of those species that are endangered that may well go extinct within a generation or two, but also it's about what we choose to import into this country, just as we banned live animal exports for slaughter at the end of the last parliament. so this would be proposing to end the importation of endangered species body parts into this country. so it is both about what we choose to import here. it's not telling other countries what to do. and it's also about seeking to make sure that those endangered species , that those endangered species, majestic animals like elephants and lions are there to be seen for generations. >> but amy argues it's a pretty comprehensive study . amy argues comprehensive study. amy argues that actually, the money that comes into the local communities in africa, or wherever else it may be, actually overall help the conservation of those species. >> well, there are many different academic opinions on trophy hunting and the impact that it has on those endangered

species. i think it's important to follow the money, and there is big money in this very little of that money actually goes to local african communities , i local african communities, i would argue that photo safaris, for example, which is carried out in kenya, is something where they don't have trophy hunting, where that hasn't been allowed since the 1970s is far more lucrative to those local african economies than shooting an endangered species. if you shoot a 50 year old tusker elephant, that's one and done. that animal is then dead. often they die very slowly. but if you have photo safaris, then that economy can benefit many times from people visiting to see those majestic animals think that animals shot by high velocity rifles die slowly. >> i think. i think it happens pretty quickly, but that's perhaps a slightly separate debate. isn't the truth of it henry smith that what you want to do? and john spellar from laboun to do? and john spellar from labour, you basically take a moral position to say you, a british citizen, should not be allowed to do this.

>> well, it's what we choose to import and export. it's a brexit freedom that we ban fox hunting in this country. well, and this isn't about fox hunting. it's very similar to see. well, foxes aren't an endangered species. what we are talking about. >> do you support the hunting ban? >>i ban? >> i don't see any need to change the legislation as we have in this country. at the moment when it comes to that, but we are talking about endangered species here and whether they will survive into the future. and it's not just african countries. this is about polar bears in canada and other other species around the world as well, whose numbers have exploded over the last few years. >> polar bears well, this is this would cover species under cites. >> the international agreement on trade of endangered species. if an animal is listed as endangered, then it would be covered by this legislation to ban the importation of those body parts of those species into this country. >> you're going to win this, aren't you ? aren't you? >> i'm no longer in parliament. ichose >> i'm no longer in parliament. i chose not to seek re—election. >> but you set this up.

>> but you set this up. >> but you set this up. >> but i introduced this legislation. as you said in your introduction. we ran out of time. yeah i obviously it's a piece of legislation. i promoted. i hope it does become law , but, you know, parliament law, but, you know, parliament is a is a funny place. and i'm never complacent about what i would like to see making it onto the statute book. there have been successes and failures in my political lifetime in that respect, and never say never, for good or bad. >> it will. for good or bad, it will be your legacy. henry, thank you once again for coming on the programme. now, jacob, were you there at the beauty parade earlier on today? i wasn't i actually listened to it on the car driving back on gb news radio. oh very good. which was a very good way of listening to it. yes. who was the winner? >> i thought kemi's performance was the strongest, the strongest oratorical performance , the most oratorical performance, the most charismatic, with robert jenrick being a close second. good lord, i thought tom did much better than people have been saying. people have been very critical

of his speech, but i thought it was actually pretty good and james cleverly was james cleverly. i mean, he is popular, but i thought it was i didn't i didn't like him being rude about you. actually, that was the bit that annoyed me. >> i can put up with that. >> i can put up with that. >> yeah. no, no, it's not that you can't put up with it. it's that we need to work with people who've aged reform and we need to say, look, you're our friends and we may be in different parties, but you're not. you are not keir starmer. you're not the opposite side of the coin from keir starmer. you're really not jacob. >> what's your main subject tonight? >> the main subject is what's going on between israel and iran. how fundamentally important that is. and trying to get some more understanding of what's going on and what the risks are. >> good. well state of the nafion >> good. well state of the nation with jacob rees—mogg in a few moments, but first, let's have a look at the all important weather with honour. creswick >> even though we'll see a cloudy start, it'll be a bright outlook for the rest of the day. boxt solar sponsors of weather

on gb news. >> hello, good evening and welcome to your gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. well, it's going to be a cold night ahead with some frost and fog in places, but generally high pressure is building in bringing plenty of fine and settled weather to come. still, low pressure dominating across the south, so cloudier here with some showers but high pressure in the north is building across the country , bringing plenty of the country, bringing plenty of fine and settled weather. now as we head into this evening. still some cloud across the south, but it is generally breaking up as we head into the overnight period, so leaving plenty of clear spells largely dry, though still, the chance of a few showers just poking into southeastern coasts , but southeastern coasts, but otherwise a dry night for many. plenty of clear spells, so it will be feeling cold with some fog in places too, particularly in northern areas. might just be a little bit slow to clear by the time we reach tomorrow morning. as well. so as i say, particularly across scotland, it will be feeling cold. likely to see some grass. frost may even see some grass. frost may even see a little bit of frost on your cars during the early hours of the morning. and there will be fog in places too. so do take

care when travelling. this generally lifting and breaking through the course of the morning. but as i say, there may be some stubborn fog which is slow to clear, largely dry across the south. still, those showers just feeding in to the southeast coast. but as i say, high pressure building in bringing plenty of fine and settled weather across the country. there is still the chance of the odd shower across the south—east, but you'll probably be unlucky if you do catch any largely dry . plenty of catch any largely dry. plenty of sunny spells and some lighter winds as well. so even though temperatures are generally round about average with highs of around 16 or 17 in the southeast, it will probably feel more pleasant in those lighter winds as we head into friday. still, plenty of fine and settled weather around, but low pressure is trying to edge its way into the west. so cloudier here with some outbreaks of rain across northern ireland and western parts of scotland, and there will still be plenty of fine dry weather across the country as we head into the weekend. but we are expecting some more unsettled spells as well. so as always, stay tuned for all the details. bye for now .

for all the details. bye for now. >> we'll see a cold snap which will quickly develop into a warm front. boiler repairs sponsors of weather on gb

>> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight the middle east is on the brink of a region wide war as israel promises a severe response to iran's showering of 200 ballistic missiles into the region's only democracy. now, more than ever, israel needs our support. the labour party's number one benefactor, lord ali, is under investigation for alleged non—registration of interests by the lords standards commissioner. more delegate trouble emerges. as for starmer, as i suggested last week, the prime minister is benefiting from a tax loophole on his gifts and freebies that would cost him nearly £50,000 unless he pays them back and he's begun to do

that. plus, as the tory