well . well. >> welcome to this special edition of the camilla tominey show with me, camilla tominey and boris johnson , former prime and boris johnson, former prime minister, former foreign secretary , former mayor of secretary, former mayor of london and now the author of his own autobiography, unleashed, unleashed your unleashed on gb news. >> it's great to be here. >> it's great to be here. >> should i be afraid? >> should i be afraid? >> it's hard to contain this book. it's so okay. >> well, unleashed. >> well, unleashed. >> we've clamouring to get out . >> we've clamouring to get out. >> we've clamouring to get out. >> we've clamouring to get out. >> we've we've for months read the sterilisation, which is hugely compelling. i've had to skim read it to make sure i'm across everything that you're saying in this book. and let's be honest, i mean, it is revelatory and entertaining in

equal measure. i want to start, however, with a bit more of a serious sort of serious tack, because i want you to put your foreign affairs hat back on. we're at very difficult times right now, aren't we? it's a pretty disturbing for the gb news audience, actually, to see what's going on in the middle east, what's going on in ukraine, probably also have fears about what's going on in china, frankly, just on israel. do you think now that since the 7th of october attacks that israel is actually effectively given up on a two state solution because it's no longer really possible or feasible for netanyahu? >> look , i'm a believer in the >> look, i'm a believer in the two state solution. i think that's the right way forward for israel and the palestinian people, ultimately. but you have to recognise the fact that all our viewers, i think, recognise the fact that israel is dealing with groups of people who want to exterminate israel, and they include hamas , they include include hamas, they include hezbollah, they include the

mullahs of tehran . and they have mullahs of tehran. and they have a policy. it's not just rhetoric. they have a policy of extermination, of wiping israel from the map. and so, yes, of course, it's important to produce a just and lasting solution for, for the palestinian people. but that's difficult insofar as their leaders chronically continually advocate the extinction of, of israel. and so when, when the october that were coming up to the anniversary now of the october the 7th massacre, when 1200 or more totally innocent israelis were murdered or or kidnapped, they still haven't returned all those hostages? no, they still retain the objective of wiping israel. >> israel is saying that if these hostages are returned, then the fighting ends. but can we credibly, credibly believe that ? that? >> i, i think that's that's very

likely. i think that the of course, you know, the heart bleeds for the people of gaza. the heart bleeds for the suffering of the palestinian people. but the tragedy of the of the palestinians, as abba eban once said, is that they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. yeah . and miss an opportunity. yeah. and decade after decade, there have been moments when there could there could have been a deal and their leadership has preferred their leadership has preferred the purity of trying to abolish the purity of trying to abolish the existence of the state of israel. and that is that was never going to happen. >> do you think netanyahu is the right leader for these times? has he actually made things worse? >> look , i think that i've had >> look, i think that i've had i've known him for many years , i've known him for many years, bibi netanyahu, and i think lots of people have different views about him . what i will say is about him. what i will say is that i think that he he presents a very clear and coherent case

for ensuring the security of israel. and i go back to this point, hezbollah has been firing rockets into into northern israel for donkey's years . hamas israel for donkey's years. hamas launched an absolutely appalling attack, a genocidal attack on on israel. i think that whatever you whatever people may think about, about bibi netanyahu and i personally always had a good relationship with him. but whatever people may think, the democracy, the democracy of israel has a right to protect itself . and, you know, you you itself. and, you know, you you said in your opening question was, you know, viewers will be worried about the state of the world. they'll be worried about what's happening in the middle east, about what's happening in in ukraine. i think it's very, very important that we as the west recognise that the answer to this is for us to be strong and strong in defence of our, of

our values and of democracy . our values and of democracy. >> is the new uk prime minister, keir starmer, being strong enough? we've had a telegraph leader in the week suggesting that he's being too ambivalent on israel and too ambivalent on ukraine. >> look, i think that on israel to take that first, you know, i don't wish to be unduly critical of the new government. but, you know, how can you coherently say as london as britain did the other night that keir starmer did the other night, that we stand shoulder to shoulder with israel after iran fired a huge number of ballistic missiles at israel. how can you say we stand shoulder to shoulder with israel while at the same time, at the same time , he's the first uk same time, he's the first uk prime minister in modern history to put an arms embargo on israel. when israel is under an existential threat. so, no, i don't see any coherence. but on on ukraine, which is which is the other great arena where our , the other great arena where our, our ideals and our principles

are under threat. on ukraine, what is the point of giving the ukrainians the storm shadow cruise missiles and giving them the weaponry to take out the bases from which the russians are using these hideous glide bombs against their positions and without giving them the permission to use that storm shadow against those russian bases. it's completely incoherent to use your word, which i think is completely right. >> i'm going to go back to netanyahu because there's an amazing revelation in the book that when you showed him around the foreign office back when you were foreign secretary, it's just like so unleashed. >> it's hard to it's unleashed. it's hard to contain it. it's hard to control it. >> you just unleashed. you showed him the desk where arthur balfour signed the declaration. >> he was very excited. >> he was very excited. >> but you put in the book that you think that when he used the men's room to use the american phrase that he might have bugged your toilet. >> well, look, i mean, you know,

i think it's. i won't go beyond what i say in the, in the book because these are, these are, these are, these are what we call a listening device. these are what we call security matters. and i was, i was i obviously submitted the, the unleashed. well do you think i submit to unleashed to the bebe boris. to the, the authorities to look at to all the security services to check it. and they were happy with what i had said. but look it was it was an amazing thing because he, he came into my office. have you been you've been to the foreign secretary's office. it is absolutely fantastic. he's got these amazing murals of wildly politically incorrect murals of britannia, you know, breastfeeding the rest of the world and all that sort of thing. and he he came in and i showed him the, the desk, which i alleged had been where balfour wrote the balfour declaration. was it the desk that in 1917, when he wrote to lord rothschild saying that his majesty's government views with favour the establishment of. but in the

book you seem unsure that it was the actual. i think it turns out there is another desk in. there are several desks. >> you're just saying . >> you're just saying. >> you're just saying. >> and he was very funny. and then i showed him the book. then i showed him the biro, which certainly wasn't the one that was used to sign the declaration. >> but you're deviating from this bugging issue. you're basically saying that bebe i'm deviating deliberately. >> i'm deliberately deviating bug you or not, nobody knows. i don't know, but all i know, all i know is he had visited. all i know is that after the we were favoured with a visit, something was discovered. >> all right, we're going to get on to ukraine and trump in a moment. but the chagos islands being given back to mauritius. your reaction? >> crazy. i mean, do i urge viewers of gb news to get out your maps, get out your atlases, check out the chagos islands, see where they are and see where mauritius is a long way away. yes. what is this claim? it's nonsense. it's total nonsense . nonsense. it's total nonsense. why are we doing this? sheer political correctness desire to look like the good guys. the desire to look as though we're unbundung desire to look as though we're unbundling the last relics of

our empire. it's nonsense. now there are. it's a bad idea in hard geopolitical terms , because hard geopolitical term s, because the hard geopolitical terms, because the base in diego garcia, as i'm sure you know, for all our viewers know, is of huge strategic importance for the us, for the west. and it's a key component of the anglo—american alliance. it's one of the things we bring to the table has been for decades that base why are we why are we trading away our sovereignty over chagos completely the wrong thing to do. for that strategic reason, china of the point that you make is, is absolutely right. you know, with the best will in the world. mauritius is a great place , wonderful country, place, wonderful country, wonderful people. but of course, you hand over sovereignty to another jurisdiction. you hand over sovereignty to anotherjurisdiction. you don't another jurisdiction. you don't know who's ultimately going to be pulling the strings. so terrible, terrible idea.

geostrategically. but the thing that i really object to is it's done. there's this left liberal view that by kind of surrendering on things like this on former colonial stuff, you kind of win points. >> what do you think? it's virtue signalling . yeah. virtue signalling. yeah. >> people think it'll make us seem better to the rest of the world. more honourable, more decent . they don't think that. decent. they don't think that. >> what do they think? >> what do they think? >> no no no no no, they think britain weak. they think pathetic. they think why would you give up an asset like that? >> so you think this has made starmer look a lot weaker? >> it doesn't. what i'm trying it doesn't actually the idea that it buys us influence that it buys us approval, that it's in the comity of civilised nations. it's seen as a generous thing. it's rubbish. >> all right. let's talk about somebody on the world stage who people don't regard as weak. i don't think . putin. yeah. what's don't think. putin. yeah. what's your view? mad, bad or both ? your view? mad, bad or both? >> putin is he's he's he's he's

quite small. putin. but i met him i had a long conversation with him in i think berlin once . with him in i think berlin once. he's he's a surprisingly small and speaks english very well. not mad. definitely bad. he means no good for this country. he regards the united kingdom as there among their most important strategic foes, probably their most important strategic foes, which is a pity. but he's chosen that path and he did things completely unnecessarily. the poisoning of litvinenko, then the salisbury poisonings, which you will remember destroying what had been a progressive improvement in relations at the end of the of the cold war. and we're now in a very and of course , invading ukraine in course, invading ukraine in 2014. and we're now in a very ,

2014. and we're now in a very, very unhappy position. and, and, you know , what he is doing in you know, what he is doing in ukraine is criminal. and it is also a mistake. it's a mistake for russia. it's a mistake for putin. >> he's also getting extremely chummy, it seems, with iran and china. is that worrying? yes. he forming a new axis of evil. >> i think that we are engaged in a very serious struggle between the democracies and the autocracies. and they they point to our failings and they say, oh, you know, look at, look at america . ridiculous. you have america. ridiculous. you have a president who refuses to accept the outcome of the election. you have you have a gigantic presidential voting system where it's decided by 30,000 people in a tiny handful of districts, or you look at great britain where they have a huge turnover of conservative prime ministers, one of whom, you know, and they

say they say democracy is not producing stability. and they say, look at us, stability. but i would say to you actually, if you if you look at the way the democracies in the autocracies compare, you look at where people really want to live, which countries they want to send their kids to university to, which countries produce the breakthroughs, which countries produce the great pop music? yeah, it's a democracy, isn't it? sure . but then who listens it? sure. but then who listens to who listens to russian techno funk? >>i funk? >> i know, but then you detail in the book , you know, syria and in the book, you know, syria and this idea that actually the west trying to enforce regime change doesn't even worse, you know, this idea that we can enforce regime change in, say, iran . regime change in, say, iran. >> yeah, i think that we, the iraq experiment in 2003 really showed the limits of that that

project . and you can't impose project. and you can't impose democracy from 30,000ft. and we tried it and we got rid of a regime in, in, in iraq. and i don't think anybody could really pretend that it was wholly beneficial for the people of iraq. certainly not. not in the short or medium term. there were many , many casualties. there was many, many casualties. there was a great deal of suffering. it led to a period of huge instability in the in the middle east. and you look at somewhere like libya , where we did it like libya, where we did it again, you know, we got rid of gaddafi, but you go to libya today, it is not a conspicuously happy, prosperous, successful or unhed happy, prosperous, successful or united country , obviously. and united country, obviously. and so it's very , very difficult. so it's very, very difficult. you can't you can't do nothing because that's also a disaster. but to try to impose your own regime, your own favoured

successor , as we did in iraq, as successor, as we did in iraq, as we as we hope to do in, in libya, that that also doesn't work. but i think what happened after, after after those failures is that we then retreated to much. and so when it came to syria in 2013, when assad bombed his own people, i think we were too hesitant. we didn't we didn't punish him with chemical weapons. we didn't punish him. we didn't. we allowed him to cross our red lines and we did well on that. >> you're very critical of the obama administration. i thought, let's bring american politics into this. yes. the presidential race is on in. it is. yes. do you think the world is going to be safer under a second trump presidency or kamala harris? >> look, i think it's very, very important that even , you know, important that even, you know, has been politicians. there has been prime ministers don't engage such as myself . don't you engage such as myself. don't you

know, america is a great friendly democracy in america. >> you once had us citizenship. ihadnt >> you once had us citizenship. i hadn't renounced it. you would have a vote in there. >> i know it's the most expensive decision i ever made. because. because to me, being born in america, they then. do you know what they did? they then pursued me for for the the tax on even though i was mayor of london. >> this does happen. >> this does happen. >> but back to they pursued me for the capital gains tax once as britain trump i don't know whether you like that moniker or not. i think that these types of analogies are very perilous. okay. between the uk and america. so what i was going to say. so you were going to ask about trump versus harris, trump versus harris . versus harris. >> what's preferable? >> what's preferable? >> so what i was saying in a roundabout way is that i don't want to get drawn into , you want to get drawn into, you know, either candidate. but, you know, either candidate. but, you know, what i will say is that i do think i only met kamala harris once. i think , and she harris once. i think, and she seemed very nice. but what i will say about about donald trump on the foreign stage and

get back to your your real question, your anxiety about the world today . i question, your anxiety about the world today. i think that there's no question that he was and is a strong performer. and i think that if you look at the things that he did when it came to syria, we mentioned the use of chemical weapons. it was actually trump who bombed the bejesus out of bashar al—assad after he used chemical weapons against his own people. it was trump who vaporised qassem soleimani , the iranian soleimani, the iranian revolutionary guard quds force put iran back in the box. and actually, it was trump who, unlike the democrat administration, who really sympathised with the ukrainians and gave them the javelin shoulder launched anti—tank rockets , missiles, worried about

rockets, missiles, worried about any sense of putin appeasement . any sense of putin appeasement. yeah. so yeah. well i'm not. no, because i mean, just going back to my time as, as foreign secretary, which you'll read aboutin secretary, which you'll read about in unleashed, by the way, we haven't mentioned unleashed for about about 35 seconds. >> it's on screen the whole time. >> sorry. okay. but if you. sorry, camilla, but if you remember when i was foreign secretary, we had. i mentioned it already. we had these terrible business of the poisonings in salisbury, and we had to get the whole of the world to respond diplomatically to this outrage. i mean, it was the use of novichok chemical weapon on british soil. it was in breach of the international chemical weapons convention. it was a terrible thing to do. and you remember a totally innocent member of the public, dawn sturgess , lost her life. and sturgess, lost her life. and sergei and yulia skripal were very badly poisoned . and it was very badly poisoned. and it was my job as foreign secretary then to try to get with theresa may, the then prime minister, to try to get all the all our friends and allies around the world to

kick out russian spies in protest at what they had done in salisbury and trump did that and trump turned up trumps. he really did. >> you know, to me, like you're leaning more towards a trump than harris president. >> you see, i'm not you're a very good journalist . very, very very good journalist. very, very good job i'm getting. but i'll just get back to another point. trump expelled me. they went way over our our expectations. they expelled 60 ukraine. >> and zelenskyy is safe with a potential trump presidency. >> i believe very strongly that it will not be donald trump's agenda to come into the white house again and be the president who allows the soviet empire to be rebuilt. okay, and that's no , be rebuilt. okay, and that's no, you don't make america great again by making the soviet empire great again. >> okay, well, there you have it. part one of my exclusive interview with boris johnson , interview with boris johnson, who, let's be honest, is unleashed. i mean, in body and in name of his new book. unleashed. i mean, in body and in name of his new book . so in name of his new book. so that's part one. we dealt with foreign affairs. you'll probably

agree that he's pretty comfortable on that territory . comfortable on that territory. we are going to get on to covid. we're going to get to on partygate. we're going to get on to his relationship with the conservative party. we're of course, going to talk about brexit, and we're even going to throw in a little bit of the personal. so do keep watching because it's fascinating stuff like you actually , i'm watching like you actually, i'm watching this again for the first time because we did it in the studio on thursday and we're now all watching it live on telly, and it is really quite compelling. so don't go anywhere. in a moment after the break, i'm going to be speaking to fleet street legend eve pollard to just react on that first part of the interview, but suffice to say that there is great deal more to .so do . so do not move a muscle

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news, which has become a boris bonanza of a morning. we've just seen the former prime minister speak

about foreign affairs, including the idea that he was bugged in his foreign office by benjamin netanyahu, the israeli prime minister, that he thinks that ukraine will still be some safe under a second trump presidency. i asked him whether he thought the world would be safer under harris or trump. he didn't want to commit, but i think he sounded a bit more towards trump than harris . criticised keir than harris. criticised keir starmer for giving away the chagos islands. that's going to be the subject of a parliamentary vote next week, retrospectively talked a bit as well about the general state of the world and how worrying it was not least with what's been going on in the lebanon and with iran. let's bring eve pollard, former editor of the sunday mirror, into the conversation. eve, what do you make of boris? so far? >> well, first of all, he's loving it. he's really enjoying being in the spotlight again. you know , he's been making lots you know, he's been making lots of money and doing lots of speeches and writing this book probably quite quickly . yes. probably quite quickly. yes. i think if i was camilla, i'd get somebody on the phone to him this afternoon. yes , absolutely.

this afternoon. yes, absolutely. i think he's right. this afternoon. yes, absolutely. i think he's right . whatever we i think he's right. whatever we say, this is not a political thing. he's right about us as the west fighting for democracy, fighting for what we believe. and i think i don't know enough about those islands we've given away. but i don't know about you. i don't like giving anything away till i've checked what good we could do there. what? >> we shouldn't have given them away in recess when no mps were able to comment on it. yes. and what message does it send out to the argentinians and the spanish in relation to the falkland islands and gibraltar? so he was very punchy on that look. this is his most comfortable territory. i will warn you of that. viewers and listeners to this programme, because obviously we started on foreign affairs because he's happy talking about foreign affairs gets a little less comfortable when we start talking about covid and partygate. but that's still to come. but in general, i mean, his demeanour, you think looks good. i mean he's not lost none of his vavavoom lost none of that. >> of course, all the reviewers, all of which so far have been men i think don't like him

because he is he's the guy who's got the pretty girl on his arm. he's the guy who's been successful. the blonde hair has been deliberately smashed around his face and he looks better than he ever did as prime minister . he than he ever did as prime minister. he always than he ever did as prime minister . he always looked minister. he always looked exhausted, didn't he, as prime minister. >> indeed . so. well, look, we're >> indeed. so. well, look, we're going to analyse much more of it all morning. there's much more to come. we're going to be speaking to boris johnson next about covid, about brexit, about the troubles he had with his tory colleagues and also about the royals , what he has to say the royals, what he has to say about his last meeting with queen elizabeth ii is fascinating. equally of interest, and it's a surprising one, but maybe it's the meeting of two old etonian minds is what he had to say about his relationship with prince harry, andindeed relationship with prince harry, and indeed with his wife meghan. all that still to come , for all that still to come, for goodness sake, do not go anywhere and we're going to be analysing it with eve and

welcome back to this special edition of the camilla tominey show. lots more to come from my unleashed episode with boris johnson. but first, here's your news with sam francis . news with sam francis. >> camilla, thank you very much and good morning to you. we start this hour in the middle east where massive consecutive strikes have hit beirut's southern suburbs overnight. if you're watching on television, you're watching on television, you can see here some of the latest pictures emerging from beirut this morning. it comes as israel claims that its forces have killed 440 hezbollah fighters so far in its ground operations. that's in southern lebanon as it destroyed 2000 hezbollah targets . well, the hezbollah targets. well, the fourth and for now, the final scheduled flight for uk nationals fleeing that conflict in lebanon is set to depart

today. three previous flights returning to birmingham earlier this week, foreign secretary david lammy has been urging anyone still wanting to leave to register immediately, warning that future flights aren't guaranteed here. meanwhile, sir keir starmer is warning that sparks from the middle east conflict are he says, igniting tensions back in britain . tensions back in britain. writing in the sunday times, he condemned the rise in hate crimes against jews and muslims since the october seventh attacks, calling for restraint and political solutions to avoid further escalation . he's also further escalation. he's also raised concerns about the growing risk of a direct conflict between israel and iran, which he said would have devastating global consequences . devastating global consequences. and faith leaders here in the uk are calling for unity today, after a year of what they've described as horrific suffering in the middle east conflict. more than 2600 protests have taken place so far across the uk, with more than 500 arrests

and policing costs of over £46 million. anti—semitism and anti—muslim hate have reached record highs, with thousands of incidents recorded so far this yeah incidents recorded so far this year. in a joint letter, those faith leaders have rejected hatred and called for communities to stand together well, cross—community events are planned today, including vigils in oxford and in hyde park in london as the country marks a year since that war with russia began. year since that war with russia began . speaking of russia , began. speaking of russia, russia has launched more than 80 drones and three missiles at ukraine in a significant overnight attack. that's according to reports from ukraine's air forces. it comes as president zelenskyy is preparing to unveil a victory plan detailing a crucial allies dunng plan detailing a crucial allies during rather a crucial allies meeting in germany on the 12th of october. this plan is expected to outline the steps towards ending its war with russia. while specifics remain under wraps at this stage, us officials have suggested it could include just a revised request for increased military

support and long—range missile systems . that's the latest from systems. that's the latest from me. i'll be back with you in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. we've got a jam packed hour to come in this next part of my interview with the former prime minister, we discussed the impact covid had on his premiership and his lack of accountability for partygate. you admit in the book that you came close to cracking it as you say it, when you had covid and ended up in intensive care. many people have said since should you have returned to work so quickly, did it impair your judgement ? quickly, did it impair your judgement? might it have been a better idea at the time, considering how ill you were to have stepped down at that point?

>> no, i think that would have been a mistake, and i don't think there was any need to do to do that at all. it's what is true is that i was i was pretty groggy in the first few weeks, but but i think i don't think so. no, no, i think i think it's what is true is that, as i'm sure many, many of our viewers will remember, it does if you get it badly, it really does knock you out. i did take a few weeks to be to be fully fit again, but you know, there's some rule about coming out of icu. how many days you spent in icu. how many days you spent in icu , and then the times. the icu, and then the times. the times seven. yeah. whatever it is. >> yeah, whatever . but i say >> yeah, whatever. but i say that because when you reflect on your pandemic legacy, it doesn't look great. you've got dominic cummings describing you as a shopping trolley. you've got people still not forgiven you for partygate rightly or wrongly. now you're saying on lockdowns , i'm not saying that lockdowns, i'm not saying that lockdowns, i'm not saying that lockdowns achieved nothing. i'm

sure they had some effect. but were they decisive in beating back the disease? turning that wave down, all i can say is i am no longer sure which all sorts of amounts to you. having mismanaged this pandemic quite badly. >> well, on the contrary, i would say that actually, if you look at what we did in that penod look at what we did in that period and, and, and beyond, it was absolutely outstanding. and the, the, you know, on, on lockdowns and the efficacy of lockdowns. i know that , you lockdowns. i know that, you know, sainted colleagues on gb news and you and viewers will have different opinions about the whether they were the right thing to do. >> the suggestion is that the cure was worse than the disease . cure was worse than the disease. >> and i've heard that so let me, you know , say first of all me, you know, say first of all that i me, you know, say first of all thati do me, you know, say first of all that i do think that when you have a disease that is mysterious , whose transmission mysterious, whose transmission is mode of transmission, is

really still unknown. and, you know, there were key things that we didn't understand about about covid. it's very it's very frightening. and if you look at the history of, of pandemics, the history of, of pandemics, the only way to deal with that situation is to try to restrict transmission. if you possibly can. and that always happens . can. and that always happens. and that is what we did. now, my question and i really, you know, i don't want to anticipate what dame heather hallett, the, the head of the covid inquiry, will will say. but looking back, my question is , you know, i think question is, you know, i think the lockdowns were the right thing. i think the non—pharmaceutical interventions were the right thing to do broadly. i think it was the right thing to restrict the spread of the disease . but i spread of the disease. but i think we need to try to assess it's very, very difficult. did they were they so valuable in bending the curve of the disease

as to outweigh the dis benefit caused by the lockdown, the detriment to children's education? i mean, do you regret failing schools now ? and i think failing schools now? and i think that that that is the, the, the calculus. that's what we really need to work out. now, i still believe that what we did was, was right on school closures. i think there was a real risk, as it seemed to us at that time, that you would the if you had schools as pools of infection , schools as pools of infection, then they would the kids, sadly would go home. they would infect their the older members of their family and many, many older and vulnerable people would die. and i couldn't live with and this was this was these were appallingly difficult decisions and i think. but so, so that is so, so , so i broadly believe so, so, so i broadly believe that the lockdowns were right where i think that and you mentioned the party or the allegations of party and party gains on what i can really tell you is that i don't believe that

people were partying in that sense. i don't think that people set out to break the rules. in number 10, there was a on the contrary, no, but hang on minute. >> the reason why the public are so angry about it is because of the how they suffered, how they couldn't go out, how they couldn't go out, how they couldn't be with loved ones. imagine being in intensive care. you can imagine it. >> i can only imagine it. i was in it, i was in i wasn't it? no. >> sure, you're with loved ones. you can't be with them when they're dying. you can't go to their funerals. there was this idea that you disregarded the rules you set. but i'm also going to put it. >> so let me. so let me just let me just come back on that and just explain that what i feel very, very strongly, you know, i didn't i didn't know that's why people object. of course. of course. that's right . but that's course. that's right. but that's not how i saw it. i didn't see people partying , right. people partying, right. i didn't, and i really don't think that those civil servants set out to break the rules and to to and have a great time. it was not like that in number 10. it was a it was a, if anything, a pretty funereal and an exhausting time . and we were we exhausting time. and we were we were working the whole whole

time and, and so just to back to your original, you know , point your original, you know, point about the whole handling of the pandemic, what i would say , pandemic, what i would say, looking back on it all is that it is really hellishly difficult in a vibrant, mature democracy for a government to impose rules to stop the spread of a disease . to stop the spread of a disease. when people, human beings inevitably seek contact with other human beings. inevitably seek contact with other human beings . and we live other human beings. and we live in a very, very diverse, energetic society. and it was it was it was hot. i mean , was it was hot. i mean, actually, as chris whitty was saying the other day, it was quite amazing. the extent to which people did did comply, but that's the point. >> but maybe they would have complied anyway because we're british and we do as we're told. >> that's right. and that was good. and i do think i do think it made a huge difference. the question is did it make enough. but what where i really, really think people need to remember that government can make a

difference is when it comes to finding cures. difference is when it comes to finding cures . and when it comes finding cures. and when it comes to protecting the population with medicine. yes. and there the record of the united kingdom government was absolutely outstanding. >> and vaccines and protection and to a certain extent not in care homes. initially , and all care homes. initially, and all the rest of it, but not to play out again. the lockdown files, as you're here and we're talking 1 to 1 just about you, there is a perception and it's been aided by your former adviser, dominic cummings shopping trolley analogy is that you were indecisive, that you were conflicted, that you were, frankly, at times all over the place. you're a libertarian. on one hand, you're having to adopt really draconian measures , which really draconian measures, which must have you must have really railed against it in your own mind. we haven't just got cummings's analysis of it. we've also got sir graham brady, who's come out with his own memoir. he's saying at one minute you were sort of cursing the two metre rule, the next you were asking him , as he was a covid

asking him, as he was a covid sceptic, how many people would you let die ? you let die? >> but i think both things, both things are camilla, are totally consistent. >> it sounds as if both things are totally consistent. you didn't you weren't decisive enough because you didn't know yourself. and therefore that's where the shopping trolley analogy comes from. well, you are all over the place. >> well, i totally reject that because that's total nonsense, because that's total nonsense, because any sensible person we had two massively conflicting objectives. and it was it was absolutely rational. so to try to hold unfair , complete to hold unfair, complete nonsense because i mean , we had nonsense because i mean, we had to if you want examples of decisive action and getting things done, then look at what actually happened. once the advisers that you mentioned had left number 10 and we began the vaccine rollout through this bookis vaccine rollout through this book is really about belief in britain. and it's about a certain model of national independence. and a lot of the story. i think you you read quite a bit of it is about the

fight that we had, i had with, with some colleagues to make sure that after the 2016 vote to come out of the european union , come out of the european union, when 17.4 million people voted, the biggest expression of popular will ever for any project ever , we had to make project ever, we had to make sure that it made sense that we delivered a proper brexit, and that we actually took back control, because you will recall the what? i'm coming to the we're going to get onto. but but it all it all fits together because we had to make sure that we didn't remain locked in the lunar pull of the eu, as starmer is now drifting back, by the way, and that we fully took back control of our laws, our borders and our our money. and the constitutional point was incredibly important. and several times during those debates, starmer and co voted, for instance, to stay in the european medicines agency as

part of staying in the single market and basically being run by brussels remotely as a kind of vassal state. now, because we didn't do that , camilla, because didn't do that, camilla, because we came out, we were able to do something quite extraordinary. we know that and i know , but i we know that and i know, but i think our your role. >> i think i think our , i think >> i think i think our, i think our viewers might, might have forgotten it. >> i totally get that. so but let me, let me quickly, quickly remind them because i don't want if you're coming to this later in the show, then fine. but let me just anticipate it because it's incredibly important. if we hadnt it's incredibly important. if we hadn't taken back control in that way fully, yes. then the end of 2020, we would not have been able to authorise astrazeneca and pfizer. yes. faster than any other european country. no, no, no, because it's incredibly on a minute. >> no it is. and we can talk about brexit. but brexit didn't cost you your premiership. covid did and partygate did. i know we can talk about chris pincher,

but your own closest adviser suggested that you had mismanaged the pandemic and then unfortunately, i mean, do you agree with me that if it wasn't for covid, you could still be prime minister right now? >> look , i, i think there are >> look, i, i think there are all sorts of things that contributed to my leaving number 10. but i just want i just want to i think a massive part of it. what the point i want to, to make to you and what what i'm, i know is that is that without the without the i think people actually fair minded people would say no because actually, if you look at what we did with the vaccine rollout, it was absolutely outstanding. and it's very, very important to get this point because we're going to lose it again. and i beg you to follow it, because unless we keep that proper control, we won't be able to do things like that again. so rachel reeves is now saying, we've got to go back into being a rules taker from the eu. now, if we'd been and

reeves are trying to reverse brexit, if we'd been a rules, let's see. this is the key point. if we that's what of course they are. now if we'd been a rules taker. yes. in at the end of 2020, 2021, we would not have been able to authorise astrazeneca and pfizer. no no no. but you keep you keep interrupting this because it's very, very important . and that very, very important. and that was how by march 2021, we had vaccinated 45% of the uk population, compared to 10% part of your legacy, 10% of the uk population. >> i'm asking you this. looking back, you must have regrets. there must be things you wish differently. >> i look back at that and i think it was an incredible. >> no, i'm talking about the whole of your management of the pandemic. surely you look back and say to yourself, i didn't handle some of this . well, i handle some of this. well, i could have done things differently. >> well, i think, you know, if you look, i did my to best explain to the covid inquiry what i thought about the

handung what i thought about the handling of the pandemic. and i think there were certainly things that we didn't realise at the beginning that covid was transmitted asymptomatically . transmitted asymptomatically. and that was a that was a that was a big problem. >> you're now saying that the virus was man made by the way, i do think that that looks like the most the most that looks like the most likely explanation. yes, i do . and then explanation. yes, i do. and then on regrets. well, i think, don't you regret? i mean, what were you regret? i mean, what were you thinking? yes. >> so . >> so. >> so. >> so. >> so he was a career psychopath by david cameron. >> so . big picture . what do >> so. big picture. what do i regret about the whole thing? covid. i mean, you know, you're on the right track. what i good the thing , but the. and it the thing, but the. and it wasn't so much covid that was the problem or our handling of covid because i think as i say, if you look at what we did with the vaccine rollout, you know ,

the vaccine rollout, you know, governments are responsible for that. it was outstanding. i think the problem was really with the party and how i was able to interact with my colleagues. and there i have to admit, i, ijust colleagues. and there i have to admit, i, i just didn't i didn't admit, i, ijust didn't i didn't keep my eye on the ball and, and covid you're, you're right that covid was a big part of that because i was so for 18 months i was trying to fight the pandemic and loads of mps were were sitting at home on their laptops and they were they were then getting a lot of abuse about me and stuff on social media. and , and stuff on social media. and, and stuff on social media. and, and understandably, a lot of colleagues started to fret . yes. colleagues started to fret. yes. and much, much more than i think i understood at the time. >> getting grief over partygate and other things was because you didn't have a grip on number 10. your your grip wasn't firm enough on number 10. that's the allegation. what's your answer? i think that i think that the

problem was really that i wasn't able to go and put an arm around colleagues and reassure them about everything, and i think that they, they became very, very fractious . well, there you very fractious. well, there you have his reaction to what went wrong during covid. was it that he couldn't put his arm around his conservative colleagues, or was he that shopping trolley ? was he that shopping trolley? you decide. i hope you'll agree. igave you decide. i hope you'll agree. i gave him enough time to answer. there's more on his premiership to come. i really do probe what went wrong in much greater detail. and again, who he blames . so greater detail. and again, who he blames. so again, there's much, much, much more to come in this boris bonanza. not even think of going anywhere

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news. still

lots more to come in the next part of my interview with the former prime minister boris johnson, we look at his tumultuous relationship with tory colleagues, whether brexit has gone far enough, and his belief that starmer is trying to get us back into the eu. let's take a look. >> if you look at the circumstances of my of my removal, i mean, i'm absolutely convinced, by the way, that if we'd been able to hang on from 2022 summer of 2022 onwards, things we would have defeated the inflation problem. we would have gone on, i'm sure, to win the election. don't forget reform reform which did so much damage to the conservatives in july 2024, was on o%. >> so it's rishi sunak o% july 2024, was on o%. >> so it's rishi sunak 0% when i was prime minister. how much blame are we apportioning to rishi sunak? >> and we i'm just saying frenemy. i'm just saying that we when i, when, when i was in downing street and right up until the end, we're only a

handful of points behind. and there was there was no kind of big electoral disaster. i think, you know, it was one of those things where, you know, as i say, as i say, as i say , as say, as i say, as i say, as i say, as i say, as i say, as i say in unleashed, i think i was very complacent about managing the party. i got it wrong. i should have i should have been in the tea rooms. i should have, should have done more. i just didn't. i didn't. >> well, maybe you trusted the wrong people. nobody can understand for the life of them inside tory circles and actually outside them. why on earth you brought michael gove back into the scene after he had knifed you? so spectacularly in 2016? >> it's my general love of humanity. why did you do that? christian forgiveness . and i christian forgiveness. and i thought, look, he's got to be across the detail more than you. i thought. i thought that he was a talent , and i still do. and a talent, and i still do. and i keep friends close and enemies closer. i thought he i think he believes in levelling up, and i

think he's very good at it. >> if he hadn't have knifed you in 2016 and you had been prime minister, then again, i'll quote brady , the former chairman of brady, the former chairman of the 2022, because he has this interesting theory that if you had been prime minister, if you had been prime minister, if you had had a reversed order, you had had a reversed order, you had been prime minister to get the brexit deal instead of theresa may. but theresa may had deau theresa may. but theresa may had dealt with covid, that would have been a better sequencing . have been a better sequencing. you would have got a better deal initially than her chequers fudge, and she would have dealt better with the pandemic than you. >> the problem with that, i mean, it's a it's a, you know , mean, it's a it's a, you know, absurd to talk about these high hypotheticals, but the, the, the, the problem is that the reason we were able to be tough with our friends and partners in the european union is because after december 2019, we had the

bazooka of a big parliamentary majority. yes. and that was what theresa didn't have . and that theresa didn't have. and that made all the difference. >> although you say in the book that when you started talking about no deal, it was an elaborate bluff . elaborate bluff. >> yeah. look, i mean, with any with any negotiation, you've got to be able to walk away. but and i would have walked away and we would have, we would have had in the book that you were i didn't want i didn't want to i didn't want i didn't want to i didn't want to. but in the end we got a we got a good deal. >> this idea that you can't communicate, perhaps with all of your conservative colleagues. what is it then? why are. >> well, because we had lockdown. i know you can't have it both ways. you can't. you can't say. you can't say that. we weren't observing it because we were. we were, we were, we we were. we were, we were, we were we were. we were, we were, we were stuck in. >> i was stuck in relationship issues with some other tories isn't there. you know, we look at somebody like lord heseltine and what he says about you. dominic grieve, david gauke and others. what is it about you that some tory colleagues seem to find so objectionable?

>> well, i think that the three characters that you mention were apart from anything else, i mean, they've all at various times been very friendly towards me . michael heseltine was my me. michael heseltine was my predecessor in henley . dominic predecessor in henley. dominic grieve was my was the neighbouring mp. >> they've all been scathing about you. it's like nicholas soames as well, churchill's grandson. >> and there's a very, very negative about you. >> what is it about you that rubs people up the wrong way? >> well, i think that that you have to face the fact that they had a particular view of the uk, which i don't share. i believe that we're great if we do things on our own. i think we're great. i think that national independence is extremely important, and i think that that point is proved beyond peradventure of a doubt in unleashed. yes, because having secured full national

independence, we were able to do things differently, such as the vaccine rollout, such as the aukus pact, such as the taking a different stance from our european partners on on ukraine. do you think? and so i think and i believe and what worries me now is that the starmer government is really determined to try to roll all this stuff back and it will be a disaster. you know, you can't we britain in a globalised economy, ultra competitive, globalised economy needs to needs to be able to do things differently. let me give you can i just quickly give you some, some, some statistics about about the european union compared to the united states. >> you're not filibustering. >> you're not filibustering. >> no, i'm not, i'm not. it's very, very important for people to understand. basically, since 2008, the us in 2008, the us and the eu , including uk, were worth the eu, including uk, were worth about $14 trillion in in accumulated gdp. since then,

they've added we together the europe is worth about $15 trillion. the us has gone up to 26 trillion. the growth and that's because of a very different approach to markets, to enterprise, to capitalism . to enterprise, to capitalism. >> they're not enjoying your completely. >> well, they are actually self—defeating. >> net zero promises. >> net zero promises. >> well do you actually i think the fracking till the cows come home there is a way there is a way of doing. i'm perfectly in favour of hydrocarbons as part of the transition. yeah. you bet. but i think actually the green technology is something that offers prospect of huge numbers of jobs and growth in this country. i see no contradiction there. but, but but but what i'm trying to say is that those dear colleagues that you mentioned are wedded to a certain view of britain locked in the european union , in the european union, effectively run by the european union. yes . i effectively run by the european union. yes. i didn't think that was the right thing for this country. i fought like hell to make sure that we came out of

that. >> you might not think that we maximised our post—brexit opportunities, and i think that we need to maximise our opportunities. we haven't, have we? >> well, i think we've done a lot of things differently already. i mean, you know, if you look though, we've done a lot of things differently already and there is there is much, much more that we could do. >> rishi sunak kept on talking about freeports. i'm not sure what that whether that was necessarily what leavers had signed up for. >> no, we actually freeports competitive corporation tax rates , freeports, freeports are rates, freeports, freeports are something that we talked about in 2016. liberalism 2016. freeports was in the middle of our campaign. but where i agree with you very much, camilla. and i'm sure gb news viewers would agree too. i think that there is there is scope to do much , much there is scope to do much, much more. and it's about believing in britain, right? yes, it's about believing in this country's ability to do things differently . and so brexit is differently. and so brexit is part of it. but also levelling up and as you say, you know, why

did i get gove back. it's a very, very good question actually because i thought he had he had the drive and the and the ability to, to, to get that project going. he did. he did a very good job. now levelling up is the rational thing for this country . country. >> all right. so it's all quite friendly up to this point. now i have to warn you viewer advisory things get a little bit heated. next as i try and pin boris johnson down over rishi sunak's sneaky behaviour to oust him and how his colleagues felt he was indecisive as a leader, gets a little bit tetchy. do stay

gets a little llast tchy. do stay gets a little llast general stay gets a little llast general election if won the last general election if he was still in charge and why. sue gray was a big mistake. we have to appreciate that people watching and listening to this are angry with you, because here's a bloke who delivers an 80 seat majority in 2019. okay, the biggest popular vote share since 1979. and people looking at you say you squandered it. you fluffed it. well, sorry. well, we could have a conservative government now . conservative government now. there could be no reform in nigel farage. >> there wasn't, but there was. >> there wasn't, but there was. >> there wasn't, but there was. >> the mistakes that boris johnson made . johnson made. >> so number one, number one. yes, we won the biggest majority since 1979. throw it away. and when i was prime minister, the week i was prime minister, to i had resign because of what my colleagues we have discussed. wow. was reform. what percentage were they on? well, why don't we tell our viewers? zero. okay. okay. zero. >> you keep on talking about colleagues. >> no no no no no.

>>— >> no no no no no. >> my question about rishi sunak. >> so no, no, i want to i want to answer. i want to answer because you said you said you were going away. >> legacies. no. >> legacies. no. >> yeah. right. so look at it. look at it, look at it, look at it. we not only got brexit done, delivered full national independence. right. which was not an insignificant thing. we then we then used that to deliver the fastest vaccine rollout of any european country. yes. so that we were able to have the fastest economic recovery of any g7 country when i ceased to be prime minister, we had and the contrary to the predictions of the gloomsters , predictions of the gloomsters, we had unemployment at a 50 year low, 620,000 more people in paid employment than when i became than before the pandemic. unemployment, youth unemployment at a 45 year low. so you said i was wrong. >> the problem was, unfortunately, you know, i think that you would still be prime minister now if you were a better prime minister. >> i'm trying to tell you what were the things that i'm proud of that we did as. i mean, who is to blame? >> let's talk about mr sunak. >> let's talk about mr sunak. >> so hang on a second. what we also did , what we also did, what

also did, what we also did, what we also did rather than was things you've done because you've got them all in your book. >> it's available from all good bookshops. just answer my question. yes. >> so you're making it fair enough. you're making a fair point. if i was so great, how come i'm not still there? exactly. which is? which is a reasonable, fair point, isn't it? and i think the answer to that, sadly, is that there was an outbreak of irrationality in my party, and i think they made the wrong calculation. and you ask about rishi and rishi and i just wasn't good enough. >> maybe i'm a good enough prime minister. >> if you look at the. >> if you look at the. >> maybe you're a great writer and a good journalist , you know. and a good journalist, you know. >> well, you know, i direct you to what we did. we had the fastest vaccine rollout of any european country. i've given you the unemployment stats. we helped, by the way , to protect helped, by the way, to protect the independence of another european country in a way that i don't think would have happened if i hadn't been there. okay. and we could go on listing your. yes, yes, we had we had neighbourhood crime down 31%. we could list we were on track now.

yeah, but so but so. yes. so. >> yes i do. >>- >> yes i do. >> if you ask me if you really push me to say. >> if you ask me if you really push me to say . was it all push me to say. was it all a terrible mistake to kick me out? yes, i think it was. but was that rishi sunak. i think it was a goof. and yes, i think he was badly advised. >> badly advised. >> badly advised. >> i think he was badly advised. i think he was. i think he was. >> well, what role did he play in your downfall? >> the role of the you know, one of the one of the, you know, he. he . he was a close colleague and he. he was a close colleague and friend who turned on me at a particularly critical time and i thought it was a mistake. it was it was worse than a crime. it was a mistake. it was worse than a crime. it was a mistake . and so it proved. was a mistake. and so it proved. >> so you think so? it proved you were still in power. you'd have won the last general election. >> i think we would have. i think we would have had a very good shot. yes, i think we would. i mean, you know, as i just just remind you, we were only a handful of points behind in the polls. nothing like the huge gaps that opened up and reform, which is you know, we

were discussing earlier. yes. was on zero or hovering around zero nigel farage. and as a conservative so do you have a really good question ? i, i you really good question? i, i you know, i know that he's a, he's a beloved colleague on this, on this, on this, on this sofa. does he appear on this sofa. >> sometimes i treat him as impartially as i'm treating you, though. yes . impartially as i'm treating you, though. yes. no. >> good. well, that's all i want to say is i think conservatives have got to be conservative and talk about the things they believe in. and i don't think you can win by trying to piggyback or absorb the, you know, the. no. >> but you did a deal with him in 2019. absorb the doesn't the next conservative leader just have to do a deal? >> no, i didn't do any deal. >> no, i didn't do any deal. >> somebody stood down in a number of brexiteer seats. come on. he admitted that much. he said it was a catastrophic mistake because you squandered younl mistake because you squandered your, i don't know, majority. >> i don't know about that. i don't know about that. i mean

so, so he so he now claims so he now claims. >> but but the tories add them up. >> but at that stage yes. but at that stage they were, they were, they were, they were far, far lower in the polls. yeah. they were far, far lower. and they weren't in a strong position at all. and i think, i think it is all. and i think, i think it is a mistake for conservatives to talk about your opponents and to big them up. we should be conservatives. yeah , we should conservatives. yeah, we should be talking, you know, we should be talking, you know, we should be talking, you know, we should be talking and the if they'd allowed me to, to stay on, i think we would have continued to deliver on the, the levelling up agenda. we would you know, we ended up in 2024 basically alternately machine gunning both halves of our, of our coalition and just to clarify this point, you think you lost your premiership because of rishi sunak? no, i think i think there were lots of things that came together, but i think it was basically. >> but mustn't you take more responsibility? i take full responsibility? i take full responsibility for everything i always do, but i mean, the fact is that as i as i've told you, i

think there was a problem of, of party management and i think so, i think so there were two there were some mps who thought that things were so bad that they might lose their seats , though might lose their seats, though i think they were wrong . think they were wrong. >> but there were quite a lot of mps who weren't worried that i was going to lose the next election. they were worried i was going to win. yeah. and they and they thought johnson doesn't really he's not going to promote me. >> and do you think there's self—interest at play in politics. shock. horror. yeah. how about sue gray is she responsible for your demise? what did you make of her appointment as starmer's chief of staff ? of staff? >> i thought it was extraordinary, to be honest, but there you go. but look. but again, you asked me about mistakes i made. i shouldn't have appointed her and asked her to do that thing. and i made. >> do you think that? >> do you think that? >> well, because it turned out. what i didn't know that she'd already been approached to be the chief of staff of ed miliband and who you're very close to on the net zero front. and he and i were at the same

primary school, but sue gray and should she not have been appointed, should she not have that role in downing street? >> she's in a very influential position, i think. >> look, i mean, it's far be it from me to intrude on labour's private grief . but, you know, private grief. but, you know, i do wonder what what on earth is going on with those guys. i mean, you know this guy wajid ali? why is he giving money to. what what was it about this , what what was it about this, this mp called conlon that made him money for wallpaper and things? no, on the contrary, as soon as as soon as i knew that money going into the what was then the ill fated refurbishment fund for the whole of number 10, as soon as i knew that it had come from a particular tory dononl come from a particular tory donor, i paid him back in full because i thought i cannot be. even though the money was going on, the blooming number 10 flat, which was, you know, not something that i owned. >> well, do you think starmer's getting an easy ride? i paid how i paid it back in full when you made these sorts of errors. is he getting off lightly with dodi gate? >> i'm sure people were totally right to try to beat me up and,

you know, whatever. that's politics. and i don't blame. i don't blame the tory party for wanting to chuck me out. if they thought that that was genuinely, you know, that's that's what tories do. they're, they're , tories do. they're, they're, that's how they behave. regicidal. i tried to explain to them that it would not end well. okay. and it didn't. >> on leadership. who are you backing? can you tell me? >> i'm not, i'm not. i'm not. rm— >> i'm not, i'm not. i'm not. i'm levitating. >> i'm levitating. so you're not backing anybody as yet , will you? >> no, i mean, no, i think look, i think they're all. they all have excellent qualities. >> you like this idea about leaving the echr? having a referendum? >> did you read? did you read lord sumption's pieces about. i thought they were quite. >> they're excellent on the echr. but what do you think? should we have a referendum on the echr? >> i don't know if you need a referendum, but i certainly think the for case i think there need to be a big, big discussion about it because, you know, it,

it it has changed a great deal since the, the 1970s when you could say that it did some, you know, some very important work. yeah . and it has become much yeah. and it has become much more adventurous and legally adventurist in the way it tries to second guess national parliaments and governments. it's guilty of a bit of overreach . i think it is. overreach. i think it is. i think so, so i find myself persuaded by assumption . persuaded by assumption. >> well, there you have it. in the boris johnson blame game. who's responsible for his demise ? who's responsible for his demise? certainly not him. it seems it could be rishi sunak. certainly not him. it seems it could be rishi sunak . sue gray could be rishi sunak. sue gray is blamed. the tory party is blamed. remainers . he does take blamed. remainers. he does take some responsibility for not putting an arm around colleagues. but what do you think? really intrigued to hear your reaction to this interview so far? do you go to gbnews.com forward slash your say and we'll feed in some of your reaction as we analyse this whole interview in the next hour. and a half,

just to get the reaction from a panel of experts. but coming up next, i talk to boris johnson about his relationship with the late queen and his fondness. would you believe, harry and meghan? don't go

welcome back to the camilla tominey show . in welcome back to the camilla tominey show. in this welcome back to the camilla tominey show . in this next part tominey show. in this next part of my interview with the former pm, we discuss his warm relationship with queen elizabeth ii and why he thinks harry and meghan are brilliant . harry and meghan are brilliant. what did you mean when you said you wanted to be a world king? >> sorry. who says? i said that my sister rachel rachel will get her, but she claims i said . she her, but she claims i said. she claims i said that when i was four years old. oh, didn't you say you need to get her on the. you need to get her on the couch. >> didn't you always have ambitions to be a prime minister? >> no, actually, i remember thinking very clearly when i was

mayor of london, that this was probably the last big job i'd do. and thinking, you know , when do. and thinking, you know, when you were younger, did you want to be prime minister? >> just. yes or no would be an adequate answer to this question. >> i think i wanted to be a rock n roll star, to be honest. you probably wanted to be. no, i wanted the i really envied mick jagger, and that's what i wanted. and but i was no good. i couldn't, i couldn't, i couldn't master the bass guitar. >> and so should i just take that as a yes? i think you did want to be prime minister when you were a little boy, didn't you? >> well, honestly, i wasn't. >> well, honestly, i wasn't. >> i mean, that's a very good question, but i was, but i but since you ask, i did i have chaired the un security council. >> yes i have, i was and done all sorts of things and. >> well, you're highly ambitious and competitive. she says. well, she can top of the johnson tree. she can talk. >> well she's. have you seen her on sas? yes. celebrity. >> she's a very good on it. she's very good. will you go on something like that? can we see you on strictly come dancing any time soon? >> i wouldn't be any good at it. i'll ask you about it. wouldn't be any good. have you done strictly? come on.

>> no, i haven't been asked. i think that's probably. >> you'd be very good. >> you'd be very good. >> i think the country suffered enough, to be honest . enough, to be honest. >> you'd be very good on. >> you'd be very good on. >> you'd be very good on. >> you know, you should do it extremely movingly. you're diverting again. you're doing this thing of deflection, and you write very movingly. a lot of your relationship with queen elizabeth ii. should you have revealed she had bone cancer? i knew that i, i don't think i was the first to put that in the pubuc the first to put that in the public domain. >> i think. all right. >> i think. all right. >> i think that i think you have a bit of a testy relationship with king charles. did you get on with the queen and prince philip a bit better than. >> no, i think i look i mean, i was certainly fair to say is that i used to see the queen every week, and that was one of the great, great joys of the job, because it was kind of free psychotherapy. yeah. and there was no confession. so appalling that, you know, she'd heard it all before . all before. >> would you say she had her work cut out with you compared to other prime ministers? >> i don't know, you'd have to ask. well, i don't know. she she was always. look, she was. what i can say is she was always very

supportive and kindly and full of really good advice. and so she wouldn't she wouldn't, you know, i sort of have a fair idea of what she's thought about. lots of things. but she wouldn't really reveal her hand much. but she would she would indicate that she's a bit brexity. no, i wouldn't, i wouldn't go into her political views and that wouldn't be right. >> also, you say in the book about you think that she did hold on. she was very ill, but she was as sharp as a tack towards the end. yeah. and you think that she held on to do the prime ministerial? i do believe that. well, no. >> so that was, that was actually what her private secretary, edward young , said. secretary, edward young, said. he was a very, very nice and good man. and i do think it is he said that , you know, she had he said that, you know, she had been been unwell for a long time, but she was absolutely determined to fulfil her constitutional duty, which was to oversee the peaceful transfer

of power from one administration to the next. >> and she did that and also her duty to the very last duty. >> absolutely. and she was and she also, i think, to add to her already record breaking tally of prime ministers who served under her, she had done more from 55 to 56 or whatever it was. yes. >> speaking of the royals, tell us about your manly pep talk with prince harry. well, this was totally ignominious. >> totally. i mean, totally feeble. and this was all my idea. not not at the behest of the of the crown or the palace or anything like that . prince or anything like that. prince harry and meghan in my view, they did. they came to an event we did for female education. there was a huge chatter about you. i think you may not know i have read that bit because it's in the foreign affairs bit. yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. and they were brilliant and she was particularly good and articulate and on it and on the detail. >> so you got on quite well.

>> so you got on quite well. >> yeah. yeah, yeah i got on well with, with both of them and i also worked with harry when he did his invictus games for disabled veterans in, in the olympic park. and so in a sort of, you know , pit of pomposity, of, you know, pit of pomposity, i thought, you know, this national asset is leaving our country . i think he's national asset is leaving our country. i think he's a national asset is leaving our country . i think he's a force on country. i think he's a force on the whole could be on the whole a force for good. i'm going to try and discourage him. and i had a pathetic attempt at that. it didn't work. no. and there you go . i failed to avert you go. i failed to avert megxit, but i did deliver brexit. >> can you even begin to imagine being a fly on the wall as boris johnson tries to persuade prince harry to stay in the country, despite clearly the duchess of sussex at the time trying to drag him across to america to be financially independent. as she put it in the megxit statement. so, i mean, that was all quite intriguing. i asked him there about his relationship with king charles because he's much warmer in the book about queen

elizabeth ii than he is about her son, and there's always been this slight hint from him in the book, which he denies. he kind of indicates that the queen was quite brexity along with prince philip. there's always been this suggestion that, conversely, charles and indeed prince william are a bit more on the remain side of the argument. i remember writing a piece for the telegraph describing the queen being quite maternal towards him, and maybe charles felt that was a bit threatening, but there was a bit threatening, but there was a bit threatening, but there was a sort of idea that she quite liked boris johnson, because he was a bit of a loveable rogue. was it unfair for me to suggest that she had her work cut out with him when they were in those weekly prime ministerial meetings? i mean, can you imagine queen elizabeth ii sort of dealing with the ups and downs of the boris premiership ? frankly, the mind premiership? frankly, the mind boggles. anyway , we've still got boggles. anyway, we've still got a bit more to come because it would have been remiss of me to not ask boris johnson as well as this book unleashed, what he's planning next, and i also wanted to address some of these rumours about him wanting to stage a

comeback. i say rumours he was on the steps of downing street, wasn't he talking about making some kind of cincinnatus return? so i ask him in the next part of the interview to explain that and what he thinks the future holds for him, and i even ask him a bit of a personal question about his new young family, not expecting him to answer it, but he does answer it. so we're going to go through the next part of the interview now, and after that, i'm going to be joined by a punchy panel to analyse the best bits from the interview. so again, stay tuned. more to come . more to come. >> we'll see a cold snap which will quickly develop into a warm front. boxt boiler repairs sponsors of weather on gb news . sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good morning. welcome to your gb news. weather update from the met office. it's a cloudier picture out there today with spells of rain and drizzle, with sunshine and showers to start the new week . but through this the new week. but through this morning we have got some spells

of sunshine across the far south—east. but as you can see a lot of cloud around and that will continue to push its way eastwards. so a largely murky afternoon to come for many of us. we also have heavy spells of rain across the west, especially across northern ireland into wales and the southwest of england, perhaps even with the odd rumble of thunder here. temperatures holding up still at around 17 or 18 degrees as the high towards the south. as we go through sunday evening, that band of heavy rain is going to continue to push its way slowly north and eastwards, affecting much of southern parts of wales into the midlands. but we may see some glimmers of late sunshine towards the far southwest, heavy spells of rain continuing across eastern parts of northern ireland and northern england. cloudy conditions still remaining across much of scotland, with outbreaks of rain here through sunday night, and that band of rain is going to continue to push its way north and eastwards, pushing further into scotland and northern parts

of england. clearer skies developing further towards the west, but we'll also see some showers developing as we go into the start of monday, so temperatures generally still holding up at around 10 or 11 degrees across the towns and cities to start monday morning. but it could be quite a murky start for some of us, with some low clouds and fog generally lifting and breaking once that cloud and rain continues to push its way north across scotland, then across much of the uk, it's a case of sunny spells but also some frequent scattered showers that could be on the heavy side with the odd rumble of thunder. and we'll also see temperatures still remaining at around 16 or 17 degrees. bye bye for now . 17 degrees. bye bye for now. >> heavy showers first thing will be followed by a warm, cosy day . boxt boilers sponsors weather on

israel has expanded its airstrikes in lebanon. while the conflict with hezbollah intensifies , massive consecutive intensifies, massive consecutive strikes have hit beirut's southern suburbs overnight. here are some of the latest pictures emerging from beirut. it comes as israel claims its forces have now killed 440 hezbollah fighters in its ground operations in the south, and destroyed 2000 hezbollah targets. meanwhile, in gaza, we're hearing that several deaths have been reported after a strike there on a mosque. and the fourth and for now, the final flight for uk nationals fleeing the conflict in lebanon is set to depart today. foreign secretary david lammy has been urging anyone still in the region to leave while they can. he's warning that future flights may not be guaranteed and hear faith leaders are calling for unity after what they've described as a year of horrific suffering in the middle east dunng suffering in the middle east during the conflict there. more than 2600 protests have taken

place so far across the uk, with 550 arrests and policing costs of over £46 million. anti—semitism and anti—muslim hate have reportedly reached record highs, with thousands of incidents recorded so far this yeah incidents recorded so far this year. in a joint letter , faith year. in a joint letter, faith leaders have rejected hatred and they're calling for communities to stand together. meanwhile, cross community events are planned today, including vigils in oxford and in hyde park as the country marks a year since the country marks a year since the war began . and in the us, the war began. and in the us, donald trump has returned to butler, pennsylvania, the site of the assassination attempt on him back in july to promise that the uk, us will reach mars. he said if he's re—elected. addressing a crowd of thousands behind bullet—proof glass, the former president began his speech last night in, well, a light hearted manner. >> as i was saying . >> as i was saying. >> as i was saying. >> well, he also pledged to

halve energy prices, to cut taxes and stop men in women's sport . then, at 6:11, sport. then, at 6:11, a bell toll to mark the moment of the july shooting and the crowd chanted cori in honour of the firefighter killed protecting his family during that assassination attempt. elon musk then made a surprise appearance, joining trump on stage. musk called the republican campaign a must win to protect democracy and took aim at president biden . and took aim at president biden. >> we had one president who couldn't climb a flight of stairs and another who was fist pumping after getting shot . pumping after getting shot. fight. fight. >> fight. >> fight. >> blood coming down the face. >> blood coming down the face. >> and finally, a new blood test that could detect 12 common cancers early is getting a major boost thanks to an investment both public and private , of £148

both public and private, of £148 million in cutting edge medical technology. the health secretary says that funding will also help advance ai diagnoses and personalised treatments , with personalised treatments, with research hubs being set up across uk universities. wes streeting, himself a cancer survivor, says the investment could save lives and strengthen britain's role as a leader in life sciences . that's the latest life sciences. that's the latest from the newsroom for now. i'll be back with you shortly. now back to camilla for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone. >> sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code , or go to scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. thank you for watching. so far, we've still got lots more to come in the next hour. we're going to reveal the final part of my interview

with the former prime minister, bofis with the former prime minister, boris johnson. what lies ahead for a man with many ambitions? and i'll be joined by a punchy panel to dissect some of the best parts of the interview. but first, let's hear what boris has to say on his legacy and his future . i know you hate talking future. i know you hate talking about personal things and your wife and your children, but i did want to just ask you what it's like being a dad. second time round. do you do things differently when you're a parent in your 50s? >> god, you know the great thing about mother nature? mother nature wipes the slate of memory. you have no . and that's memory. you have no. and that's why you keep doing it. because you forget how exhausting it is. >> yes, you know what i mean? >> yes, you know what i mean? >> exhausting this time round, i don't know, but it's certainly exhausting. but do you know what i mean? that's her trick. exhausting. but do you know what i mean? that's her trick . she i mean? that's her trick. she bamboozles you write. bye bye bye, making you forget. >> but three young children in your 50s. you're enjoying that? >> i love it. i'm having a very happy life in blissful, blissful, rustic obscurity, working on books such as unleash, which we

haven't mentioned. it's upside down again. sorry. there you go. that's a very good picture of me, by the way. now, i'd like your view on this. camilla, the publishers. >> you're diverting again. no, no, no. >> quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly. the publishers didn't want to have this picture on the back because they thought. they thought it looked absurdly on. >> it's very anti—health. >> it's very anti—health. >> and they thought it was anti health and safety and what do you think? >> i think it looks good okay. it's you in the countryside and your new oxfordshire guy. >> the it's got the couple more questions. gb news the people's channel. >> couple more questions. do you think you're misunderstood. >> i mean, i think on the contrary, i think it's probably likely i'm all too well understood. really? yeah, i think so. when people criticise you as a buffoon , another you as a buffoon, another regular criticism is that you're a pathological liar. >> do you have a problem with the truth? no, i think that, on the truth? no, i think that, on the contrary, i think that what people are very the reason people are very the reason people get so angry. >> i think, is you've got to forgive me because this is my view, right? i think that a lot of very clever people were dnven

of very clever people were driven potty by brexit, and they couldn't believe that their arguments, which they thought were better, had been defeated in the course of that referendum campaign. >> although some people thought you were economical with the truth before brexit, and instead of taking it lying down and accepting that they'd lost the argument, they decided to attack the people who'd won the argument in particular me and but others as well, of course. >> and to try to undermine our credibility and to say it was all based on a pack of lies. and they attacked, in particular the bus of truth , the bus. bus of truth, the bus. >> well, the figure of 350 million has since been debunked. no. if anything, they say in the book, even if it was half the amount, it would still be a good thing for the nhs. >> so the 350 was the gross term, and we had this argument

in the referendum campaign about 500 times. so no one could say that all this was was concealed . that all this was was concealed. the half of that was spent by the eu directly in our own country. the rest we simply sent to brussels to be spent on whatever on greek tobacco farms or whatever they wanted to, or they wanted to spend it on. it's a lot of money. yes . and it was a lot of money. yes. and it was rising. so the 350 by 2020. i think i'm right in saying that the 350 was due to rise to 420. okay . and you're starting to okay. and you're starting to talk some, you know, even even even even the net sum we're starting to , to be pretty starting to, to be pretty serious money. >> but you think the brickbats are down to brexit. and i'm saying that you've always been a divisive figure. is it. perhaps. i've read this book and it's a really readable book. it's beautifully written, as one would expect. it's actually laugh out loud funny at times, but does it betray the fact that

there's a lack of seriousness about you that was ill suited to you having the highest office in the land? >> no, because as i think we've exhaustively demonstrated in the course of this, of this conversation , camilla, in spite conversation, camilla, in spite of some appallingly difficult times and a pandemic and coming at the end of a long period of tory government, we got some pretty astonishing things done. >> what would you like your legacy to be? and is it delivering brexit? >> i think levelling up. >> i think levelling up. >> is it the vaccine? >> is it the vaccine? >> is it the vaccine? >> i think that all three of those were incredibly difficult to do as as was mustering a coalition of support for ukraine. yes. but i but i'm proud of them of the, of the those those four things. it is levelling up that is still a work in progress. it is happening. i mean, you know, what's so sad about what's happening right now in the uk is that , you know, we've we've that, you know, we've we've junked some of the infrastructure stuff. you know, when i was you mean hs2. yeah.

and, and the and the, the northern powerhouse rail. yeah. this is crucial. you know, why should london and the south east be the only parts of the country to have really, really good mass transit systems. yes. you know, but the rest of the country is full of genius that the trouble with all of that was that too you're profligate. >> you know, this was a sunak criticism. you had to put the chequebook away. you're all for massive infrastructure projects, but they've all got to be paid for. you've got to have growth, and then you preside over a tory administration that raises people's taxes . and then you people's taxes. and then you wonder why you ditched. >> no, but that wasn't the that wasn't the that certainly wasn't the reason. and there was and there was and there was plenty of pretty relaxed about immigration. >> there was plenty of there was plenty. and farage have prospered because under the conservatives, you let too many people in and didn't control the borders adequately. >> what people know, we did control them. what people have forgotten was that during the pandemic, immigration fell off a cliff and nobody came. >> that's because the borders were all closed. >> and so what then? listen. come on. yes .

come on. yes. >> and so then, since it's risen to the historically high levels of 745,000 last year, in 20 2022, there was a very good reason for that. >> you will recall that as we came out of no no no no no no, came out of no no no no no no, came out of no no no no no no, no, no, as we came out of the pandemic because those numbers we agree. but what happened was the migration advisory committee did allow a lot of people in because we had a total crisis with the shelves not being stacked. and nobody to drive the fuel lorries and a real crisis in the labour market, which you will remember was driving inflation. yes. and that is the number one foe of the british people and of the uk economy, because that destroys savings and greatly and destroys investment and weakens the economy. so we had to stop inflation getting out of control. and so what happened was that in that particular yean was that in that particular year, the migration advisory committee , i think, committee, i think, unquestionably allowed too many

people to come in. and the numbers for social care and for some of the other categories were way too high. but that was a decision taken by agencies of the uk government control, which we decided to do. it was a mistake. i, you know, people can now see that i'm always quite relaxed about mass migration and, and what we have now, but which we didn't have before is legal control. now there's the wholly separate issue of the illegal immigrants coming from across the channel . and there, across the channel. and there, because of brexit, we are actually able to deal with it with the rwanda policy, i know, but then the boat crossings increased post—brexit and they did because they thought it was absolutely ludicrous to suggest that we had taken back control of our borders when thousands of people are arriving by dinghy, i know which was which, which was why it was so important for rwanda to have the deterrent in place in the form of the rwanda policy, and it took an amazing

amount of work to get that done. and i really pay tribute to priti patel and, you know, to get that thing done, to get a deal with rwanda so that we could send people who arrived in kent to direct kigali, boom, that was an amazing achievement. >> i know , but it now can't >> i know, but it now can't happen because. because starmer. >> no, because starmer has dropped it and he shouldn't. >> the tories failed to win the last election. yeah, but yes, but you have to play a part in. >> no, no no no you don't play any part at all. i if you want in the recent election i wasn't there. where was i. i just repeat let me repeat my point when i left office, when i resigned, we were a handful of points behind. right. i think in that week, there was one poll that week, there was one poll that put us two points behind . that put us two points behind. okay. i think you will agree that with the boundary changes and everything else, it would have been possible for me to overcome a two point deficit in two and a half years. >> well, you might have lost your seat right? >> i might have overcome a two point deficit in two and a half years. plus, reform was on zero,

right? okay. so that was that was of one uxbridge. that was the position. no, i think i would have won uxbridge. all right. why not? why not? that was the position as i left it right. i was not responsible for what then happened. >> okay. so are you itching to come back and try and do you want to. do you want to? what was this cincinnatus comment about returning to the plough ? about returning to the plough? cincinnati. come back. >> cincinnatus. cincinnatus. so cincinnatus was a cincinnatus used to return. i've basically taken up my plough. i think that i'm living a very happy life of blameless, rustic obscurity. i'm. >> i don't know if you like obscurity, though . obscurity, though. >> blameless. rustic obscurity. do you like obscurity? and, yeah, i'm working on on various books such as ? i produced this books such as? i produced this one, obviously. yeah. shakespeare's coming. that's right. and various things like that. >> but don't you want to return to the political fray in the vein i used to say, as i used to

say, as i used to say, and i repeat , i say, as i used to say, and i repeat, i think the say, as i used to say, and i repeat , i think the chances of repeat, i think the chances of my mounting a comeback, getting back into into number 10 are about as good as my chances of being reincarnated as an olive or decapitated by a frisbee, or being locked in a disused fridge , being locked in a disused fridge, or blinded by a champagne cork. literally . use those phrases to literally. use those phrases to describe the unlikelihood of you becoming prime minister when you became prime minister , so you became prime minister, so you could stage a comeback. >> i think it remains of that order of probability. >> and what remains. >> and what remains. >> you know, if you i don't know what the odds are of being bunded what the odds are of being blinded by a champagne cork or locked in a disused fridge, or decapitated by a frisbee. younger, fitter, younger in a fridge. >> to be fair, there was not disused. >> it was. it was very cold. that was that was the beginning of the of the general election campaign. >> can we get a yes or no? are you going to make a political comeback? >> yes, i think i'm at my chances are about as good as being locked in a disused. >> it's not a no, is it? >>— >> it's not a no, is it? >> or no. or blinded by champagne. >> what are you going to be doing for gb news colleague? >> well, i don't know. i'm. i'm very. would you like to do. well, i'm very happy that this

is the first tv interview to be recorded about my political. >> but are you going to do a series for us, which is about britain believing it's about believing in britain, believing in our national ability to do things independently. >> it's about believing in levelling up, believing in the potential of the whole country and believing in britain abroad. >> well, you're perfectly augned >> well, you're perfectly aligned with our audience because nobody believes in britain more than gb news viewers. >> well, i know, i know, i'm a great fan of gb news and have been since your your your inception and you know, all i hope for is that your the footprint of gb news will grow and more people will understand that it's a great, great addition to our. >> do you watch much bbc broadcast these days? >> i you know i, i don't know when i literally cannot think when i literally cannot think when i literally cannot think when i last sat down to watch bbc news. it's terrible. >> do you think the bbc is biased? >> i don't know, i don't watch it. what is it? well, do you

think so? >> what's your instinct? >> what's your instinct? >> i hesitate to criticise. you might i hesitate to biased against you? but i don't know. i mean, i literally, i just never. mean, i literally, ijust never. what do you think? i never watch it, really. but i mean, i didn't, but i never had time when i was in number 10 and i just don't. do you watch. do you, do you do people sit down and watch? is it is it at 10:00? the ten news at ten journalist. >> it's a bit like a busman's holiday, but a occupational hazard. do you actually watch the news? really? so what next? immediately for boris johnson once you've finished promoting unleashed, which i think is the name of your autobiography, i'm not sure you've promoted it heavily enough. >> no. you've been you've been very, very kind. i have to admit. you've been wonderful to mention so. well, i've got to get i've got to get some more wood in for into the shed. yeah. winter's drawing in. >> oh. have you got a wood burning stove? does mr gove know about this ? about this? >> yes. i mustn't give the game away here. i think it's all right. i mean, i'm in a wood burner. i think it's okay. i think the local council allows us to, to, to. i've got to , i've us to, to, to. i've got to, i've got, i've made some jam which i

have to finish off. that's very meghan . yeah. does she make jam. meghan. yeah. does she make jam. jam. well my problem with my jam is my jam is resolutely refuses to coagulate . oh it's, it's and to coagulate. oh it's, it's and it's sitting there in the fridge in a sort of in a, like a kind of alliterative though. >> johnson's jam. yeah. if you were to call it that, i could, i could try. is that a note upon which should we end on that sweet spot end on that sweet spot? thank you very much , boris spot? thank you very much, boris johnson. thank you very much indeed for joining johnson. thank you very much indeed forjoining us. thank you. to discuss unleashed. unleashed. you've been unleashed on gb news unleashed. >> it's very hard to keep this book under control. indeed it is. >> it's very hard to keep you under control in an interview setting. but we've tried our best. you've done. >> it's been great fun. thank you. >> thank you very much indeed. thank you. thank you for joining. >> thank you. great. thank you. >> thank you. great. thank you. >> well, there we are at times harder to pin down than jelly . >> well, there we are at times harder to pin down than jelly. i mean, you do have to do this thing of bringing in back onto the actual question you've asked. otherwise, he would just speak for 10 to 15 minutes on a subject of his choosing. anyway,

we're going to be analysing every cough and spit of it next, with an expert panel of political experts. experts twice doubly expertise. so do stay tuned we're going to be downloading on the boris interview

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'm joined now by my superstar panel to analyse the boris johnson interview. former editor of the sunday mirror, eve pollard, former head of broadcast matthew laza former chief of staff to nadhim zahawi james price and chief political correspondent for the times aubrey allegretti. aubrey, let's start with you. i mean , i'm start with you. i mean, i'm exhausted watching it back. can you imagine actually doing it? he is a difficult person to interview. >> you did a great job of trying to keep him on track, and i thought he spoke with real sort of moral clarity about foreign

affairs issues. >> so ukraine, about the support that he received from donald trump, about the aukus alliance. but when it came to some of the big domestic issues, his handung big domestic issues, his handling of covid, whether or not he'd have made a better leader than rishi sunak and led the party to a victory at the general election and these sorts of things, he just seemed so sort of disorientated, and i'm still not sure that he's quite fully understood exactly why he was forced out of office. >> i don't think he understands james, how angry the public still are about partygate. there's this thing he does this, i called it earlier, a merry go round of blame. at what point can boris johnson actually bring himself to blame? boris johnson for boris johnson's demise? >> it's a really good question. and there was that little moment where he said something like, of course i take full responsibility. and then and then sort of blunders off in another direction as well. it doesn't feel i've not read the book yet. it doesn't feel like he's got, as aubrey was saying, a very succinct set of answers for what went wrong. and if you've not got that, how do you manage to place yourself into

that blame game? and i don't think that sort of self introspection is very common amongst many politicians and perhaps least of all him. and it's a kind of reminder back to how chaotic some of the years were with him, and the kind of trump comparisons are interesting. people were fatigued of four years of trump, and that's why biden came in. that kind of fatigue has disappeared, i think for lots of americans who kind of remember the exciting bits. again, maybe some people have got that with boris. and you look at some of that and go, that would be exhausting to have that back in charge of the country again. >> although is there that kind of caucus of support for him in the country? eve the difference between boris johnson and somebody like donald trump is even when out of office, you've got people wearing baseball caps saying make america great again . saying make america great again. there aren't people wearing baseball caps in this country saying , bring back boris. saying, bring back boris. >> no, but that's partly because we don't wear baseball caps a lot, and that's a good thing. >> i think we can all agree. >> i think we can all agree. >> tory leadership contenders robert jenrick. let's pat ourselves. bobby jay. >> yes, that's right. robert jenrick. >> what is interesting, of course, he's still got an enormous amount of charm, and

that's not very visible with many politicians. but of course, as you say, he's got no idea. and it was fascinating . he and it was fascinating. he still, i don't think, really realises he was sewn up totally by sue gray. and i also found it was fascinating the first word he used. and you said, what are you doing now? he said, i'm living a blameless. >> yes, i should, to be fair. i should have seized on the blameless as a woman, i'm afraid that hit me in the eye. oh, i see what you mean. >> because of his extracurricular activities, i don't suppose he has any time for extracurriculars. because he's got a lot of books to publish. >> we didn't go into that. >> we didn't go into that. >> well, i understand you had so much to cover. >> i think he may have walked out of the studio if we'd gone on to more personal matters, but . on to more personal matters, but. >> and there are a lot of people who felt that he stood up for britishness. you know, the britishness. you know, the british lion, the british, you know, union jack and everything talked about levelling up, levelling up. nobody really felt they'd been levelled up in the midlands, did they? i mean, i'm not sure they do today. it wasn't the big thing, he said.

and i personally didn't agree with brexit and i know the idea is a wonderful idea, but it meant half the people we needed in this country vanished off. >> we are not going to re—enter the no . you're quite right of the no. you're quite right of yesteryear. otherwise we would need a whole other programme. but matthew, as our resident leftie here response to the bofis leftie here response to the boris bluster. >> well, i think, you know, from from what everybody said i would sum that up as i agree with much of what everybody said. i'd sum that up as fantasyland. i think he's still living in planet boris, which bears very little relation to the truth and very little relation to what the british people feel about his time as prime minister. i mean, i think the key thing for me was he he wouldn't take responsibility. the only thing he basically said that he did wrong was not, as you say, hugging tory mps, not communicating properly with his own backbenchers, not taking responsibility for what went on in downing street, whether or not he was individually holding a slice of cake. but we know, we know that things went on on his watch and it's, you know, a good leader takes responsibility. and i think people watching that will realise why he isn't prime

minister. and that's because he lives in a world of his own. >> i mean, that lack of grip at number 10 that i mentioned to him or i mean, i thought my one of my harshest lines is when i say , maybe you're just not prime say, maybe you're just not prime minister now because you weren't a very good prime minister. >> and i think it was the moment where he showed the most contrition, where he seemed to understand that he hadn't worked hard enough to kind of keep the sprawling camp of conservative mps elected in 2019 together. and you kept asking him about reform, and he kept sort of batting away those questions, saying , well, they were saying, well, they were basically polling at 0% at the time. and it's so interesting to reflect on the criticisms of him when he was in downing street, you know, on net zero, he was one of the biggest advocates for it. and yet that was reforms arguably sort of first argument against the conservatives on migration. it rose to record high levels under rishi sunak. but it was certainly still very high under boris johnson post—brexit, as well. and i think we sort of forget that actually the conservative coalition was fracturing during

his premiership. boris johnson lost three by elections to the liberal democrats. he was not sort of soaring high forever in the polls. there was that fantastic moment where he got a real sort of vaccine bounce. in april 21st, but after that it really dissipated . and i don't really dissipated. and i don't think he ever quite realised that that really was his fault . that that really was his fault. >> yeah. also, this lack of responsibility for the tory geddon that we witnessed. absolutely, in the summer. yeah, i mean , james, on one hand you i mean, james, on one hand you could say, well, he's such a brilliant politician because he's such a big dentist. on one hand, he's a brexiteer on the other, he's literally ed miliband's long lost twin brother on net zero. what a wonderful combination of righty and lefty. but then that's part of the reason why it all went wrong. isn't it? >> well, you can be so open minded that your brain falls out right? and i think this is part of the part of the problem that you've got here, which is that what does boris johnson really believe in? and that was the big problem before his election as leader , and then his

leader, and then his conservative party, labour party, and then his prime minister. what did he really believe in? he seemed to agree with the last person to be in the room with him, which has caused a lot of that shopping trolley analogy from dominic cummings, dominic cummings, we definitely know what he believes in because he writes great, long blog posts about it, and i happen to have those. i've read them all. i happen to think that he read them so we don't have he needs an editor. i think he's right about everything. but but bofisis right about everything. but but boris is unmoored and unrooted from a lot of this ideology and so we've just come off the back of the tory party conference and the campaign to be his successor. but three or whatever it is, you've got kemi badenoch talking about conservative philosophy and first ideas. you've got robert jenrick with a really well thought out set of ideas about what the state needs to be reformed into all these interesting ideas going on. so bofis interesting ideas going on. so boris seemed like he's across any of that or interested in any of those conversations. not really. >> he i mean, when he said, you said about blamelessness being a problem, controversial thing to say. also obscurity. eve, does this strike you as a man who wants or enjoys or craves obscurity? >> no . but the terribly sad >> no. but the terribly sad thing is , there is something

thing is, there is something about boris that people like. i mean, you talk to people in other embassies he's been to, you talk to people in ukraine, thinks they all think he's wonderful. he did stand up for lots of things we do. like if he was an ambassador, i'm not sure where. maybe ukraine. he'd be probably great, but that's fine for him because he doesn't have to make friends with everybody. he can go to bed and dream of his wonderful dreams as world king can't believe that rachel made that up. and i think he's got something that's that's the. there is a regret. i mean, that he's he's a voice. he's an interesting voice . and we interesting voice. and we probably have lost him and he did disappoint us. i mean, we all thought this is going to be really interesting. and it just fell apart . fell apart. >> matt, does do you think that labouri >> matt, does do you think that labour i mean, is it a help or hindrance to labour to have bofis hindrance to labour to have boris sort of honey monstering around the scene, the political scene, if i can call it that. he does remind me of a human

version of the honey, i was brilliant, i was a brilliant comparison. absolutely. basically on a diet of sugar puffs all the time. >> but that. yeah. so i think it does labour. i think having bofis does labour. i think having boris back on the scene is a great boon for labour. i think it takes the heat off labour's own problems over the last couple of weeks . distraction, couple of weeks. distraction, absolutely. it's a good distraction. and also it reminds you of the chaos because, you know, it wasn't just the chaos of changing prime ministers, it was the chaos. whilst boris was prime minister. this, as we say, complete split personality between, you know, is he going to are we going to wake up and find it's kind of, you know, tough boris, a right wing boris or net zero woke, you know , pro or net zero woke, you know, pro mass migration boris. so it just reminds you of the absolute inconsistency that we had under the tories, as well as personnel. but in terms of policy, it does highlight, however, how boring keir starmer is by comparison. well i think i mean, yes i mean i don't think, i don't think when and i hope it's not for many years to come. >> you do the kia interview to be honest, just because i think the bigger political characters are better for copy, they might

not be better for the country. >> absolutely. i think that's absolutely right. i think, i mean, look, boris is a big bear watching watching the interview, you just reminding you how bumbling he is and you don't want that in a prime minister. >> i know you do indeed . so you >> i know you do indeed. so you need somebody who can speak straight. and i did interrupt a bit. but by the way, ladies and gentlemen, that's because i needed him to answer the question. anyway, coming up next, we're going to be looking at the covid legacy of boris johnson and delving a little bit more into that aspect of the interview. don't go

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. you might have noficed tominey show. you might have noticed we've taken over michael portillo's show to analyse boris johnson's interview. i'm joined by a superstar panel to do that. but first let's remind ourselves of how boris sees his pandemic legacy . when you reflect on your

legacy. when you reflect on your pandemic legacy, it doesn't look great. you've got dominic cummings describing you as a shopping trolley . you've got shopping trolley. you've got people still not forgiven you for partygate. rightly or wrongly . now for partygate. rightly or wrongly. now you're for partygate. rightly or wrongly . now you're saying for partygate. rightly or wrongly. now you're saying on lockdowns, i'm not saying that lockdowns, i'm not saying that lockdowns achieved nothing. i'm sure they had some effect. but were they decisive in beating back the disease ? turning that back the disease? turning that wave down, all i can say is i am no longer sure which all sorts of amounts to you. having mismanaged this pandemic quite badly. >> well, on the contrary, i would say that actually, if you look at what we did in that penod look at what we did in that period and, and, and beyond , it period and, and, and beyond, it was absolutely outstanding. >> we haven't just got cummings analysis of it. we've also got sir graham brady, who's come out with his own memoir. he's saying at one minute you were sort of cursing the two metre rule. the next you were asking him as he was a covid sceptic, how many people would you let die? >> well, i think both things, both things are camilla, are totally consistent. >> it sounds as if both things are totally consistent. you

didn't. you weren't decisive enough because you didn't know yourself. and therefore, that's where the shopping trolley analogy comes from. well, you are all over the place. well, i totally reject that because that's total nonsense, because any sensible person we had two massively conflicting objectives . massively conflicting objectives. >> and it was it was absolutely rational to try to hold unfair, complete nonsense because, i mean, we had to if you want examples of decisive action and getting things done , then look getting things done, then look at what actually happened. once the advisers that you mentioned had left number 10 and we began the vaccine rollout. yes . the vaccine rollout. yes. >> i mean, it's difficult because on one hand, i think we can all sympathise with how much of a hospital pass, pardon the pun, he was handed. okay . he pun, he was handed. okay. he comes into power on the back of an 80 seat majority. there's a part in the book where he goes, you know, if you had said to me in january 2020, of all the things i had to worry about, it

was a bat related flu from wuhan in china , i would have said, you in china, i would have said, you can strike me down with a feather. so we get that, but there's no real cogent defence to the shopping trolley analogy. you're shaking your head. >> yeah. no, there isn't. absolutely. you're completely right. i mean, it's extraordinary. it's one thing to say that you were hit by events, but it's another thing to not be able to put into words what your actual coherent response to those events were. and so , you those events were. and so, you know, it's not clear what the problem with boris is. he tries to have it as we know, to have his cake and eat it in every sense. and on covid he, he sort of says, well, he's trying to to, lock down sceptics, he's trying to give a, you know, give a bit of leg as it were. and he's also trying to defend what he's also trying to defend what he did. so you can't have it both ways. there's no admitting that what he did may have been over the top or he doesn't double down on it working. so he ends up looking like he doesn't believe in anything. >> but he can't go full gove. he can't go lockdown heavy like matt hancock. no, because he is a libertarian at the heart of it. eve. yes. he was so conflicted during this whole penod conflicted during this whole period and also not excusing how

badly he did manage the pandemic. but i am explaining explaining , pandemic. but i am explaining explaining, but he pandemic. but i am explaining explaining , but he doesn't explaining, but he doesn't explaining, but he doesn't explain it himself. >> he doesn't go through. this is what the situation was on january the 3rd. i mean , i can january the 3rd. i mean, i can remember i was in america when the whole thing started and i remember watching they were all going towards cheltenham that saturday, and i remember shouting , stop people travelling shouting, stop people travelling now stop. you know, you , i wish now stop. you know, you, i wish we were shouting this english people in america at the time, we did have to come back and all that , but it we did have to come back and all that, but it was we did have to come back and all that , but it was slow. it was, that, but it was slow. it was, it was unsure. >> the inquiry is going to look at whether we should have shut down harder and sooner, and actually he's talking about the two humped camel curve , which two humped camel curve, which suggested that to a certain extent, lockdowns worked. but if you compare our result with sweden's and all the rest exactly, there's not now much in it. with the benefit of hindsight, james. but i mean to say that nobody was partying dunng say that nobody was partying during partygate, i should have been a bit more robust there. i should have said, hang on a minute. there were some parties where there was wine up the walls. they were partying the

night before. prince philip's funeral. >> so i was i was in government at the start of covid coming through. and in some of these early meetings, when you've got these people you've never met before, coming in and saying, this is going to be so terrible, reasonable, worst case scenario, half a million people dead really soon. we're going to have to be running crematoria 24 over seven to burn all the bodies. and we're going to have to relax. you know, we ended up relaxing the rules that had been put in place for harold shipman that required multiple doctor's signatures, because you're going to need doctors just rubber stamping things. you know, it was properly apocalyptic. and so the idea that that someone fresh ish into government six months in as pm and only just with a new mandate, would be able to say no to any of this stuff. let's take a longer look and be like sweden or the rest of it, and go against all the kind of scientific establishment stuff. i've got loads of sympathy for bofis i've got loads of sympathy for boris on that. and again, i think that you mentioned the inquiry that's going on feels more and more like a blame game than actually trying to get to the truth of any of it. but as matthew says, is boris particularly interested in getting to the truth of this? has he come up with put his finger on exactly what he should

have done better in different ways, so that we can learn for the future? i'm not so sure. i've even got sympathy for some of the people in number 10 who were drinking at their desks. frankly, i wasn't at any of these parties. i left government at that point. you know, it was incredibly stressful and talked to friends who were in there. and you've got the whole weight of the world on your shoulders, but you just can't get away with doing the kind of activities that came out. >> aubrey, was this following of the science, just a massive buck passing exercise for a prime minister who couldn't make his mind up? >> i think the extent to which thatis >> i think the extent to which that is demonstrated most clearly is looking at most people won't remember this, but winter 21, when there was talk about whether or not there would be another lockdown, and instead we had what was called kind of plan b, where people were slightly discouraged from going to christmas parties. and in fact, you had this slightly strange spectacle of rishi sunak, who was then the chancellor, flying back from california because he feared that the government was in such disarray and that boris johnson was about to announce a lockdown when he thought the economy sort of wouldn't need it at the most. and it just seemed to sort of

typify this slightly chaotic nature to decision making very deep into the pandemic, i can completely understand why in march decisions were taken which were perhaps irrational. now, with the benefit of hindsight. but we were 18 months on from that point more. and yet it still didn't seem that lessons had been learned internally. >> also, we're going to talk about his trust issues, perhaps with bringing dominic cummings into the fray and indeed his frenemy michael gove. but in just a moment, we're also going to analyse what boris johnson said about his relationship with the late queen and his interventions during the mexic saga. don't go anywhere.

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'm still joined by my panel. i'll reintroduce you matthew laza eve pollard, james price and aubrey

allegretti. but let's first remind ourselves of boris's relationship with the late queen. i think you have a bit of a testy relationship with king charles. did you get on with the queen and prince philip a bit better than no. >> i think i look, i mean, iwas >> i think i look, i mean, i was certainly fair to say is that i used to see the queen every week, and that was one of the great, great joys of the job, because it was kind of free psychotherapy. yeah. and there was no confession so appalling that she'd heard it all before. >> would you say she had her work cut out with you compared to other prime ministers? >> i don't know, you'd have to. well, i don't know. she she was always. look, she was what i can say is she was always very supportive and kindly and full of, of really good advice. and so she wouldn't she wouldn't, you know, i sort of have a fair idea of what she's thought about . idea of what she's thought about. lots of things. but she wouldn't really reveal her hand much. but

she would. she would indicate that she's a bit brexity . no, i that she's a bit brexity. no, i wouldn't, i wouldn't go into her political views and that wouldn't be right . wouldn't be right. >> also, you say in the book about you think that she did hold on. she was very ill, but she was as sharp as a tack towards the end. yeah. and you think that she held on to do the prime ministerial? i do believe that. >> well , no. that. >> well, no. so that was, that was actually what her private secretary, edward young , said. secretary, edward young, said. he was very, very nice and good man. and i do think it is , he man. and i do think it is, he said that you know, she had been been unwell for a long time, but she was absolutely determined to fulfil her constitutional duty, which was to oversee the peaceful transfer of power from one administration to the next. and she did that and also her duty till the very last. absolutely. and she was and she also, i think, to add to her already record breaking tally of

prime ministers who served under her, she won more . her, she won more. >> well, as i say, i'm joined by matthew eve , james and aubrey. matthew eve, james and aubrey. eve, what do you think? what do you make of his relationship with the late queen? >> oh well, he would have loved her and she would probably have loved him. and i'd love the bofis loved him. and i'd love the boris book of things that her majesty, the queen told me would be very interesting, because she'll say something and he will accept it as one way. and we all say she was telling him to leave then, wasn't she? in a very subtle her majesty queen elizabeth the second way, and she was brilliant at putting things very nicely . so when she things very nicely. so when she was saying, you don't have to be there, you have to be useful, you think she's probably thought , you think she's probably thought, is he any use? can he be useful? but he would never. she would neven but he would never. she would never, ever criticise him. i think she would just be very subtle. >> but it's an important point of for counsel any prime minister, matthew, isn't it, to speak to the queen weekly? he kind of described it as a degree of psychotherapy. i mean, i'm

not sure whether starmer has the same. they all have different relationships with the monarch. obviously now it's king charles starmer is probably regretful, actually, that he hasn't got the late queen's counsel. >> yeah. i mean, i think one of the extraordinary things that comes out in the book is that in one of his audiences, the queen was telling him about a plane, an raf plane crash that he didn't know about. it's because she'd read the documents and it turns out that he hadn't. i mean, extraordinary testament to the queen. and i think it just confirms what we know about boris, doesn't it? so, i mean, it really does bring, you know, those weekly audiences do do and articulate and on it and on the deweekly audiences do do show your colours. those weekly audiences do do show your colours. >> indeed. now, james and >> indeed. now, james and aubrey, i know you're always aubrey, i know you're always dying to talk about harry and dying to talk about harry and meghan, especially you, james. meghan, especially you, james. let's be honest. so let's have a let's be honest. so let's have a look at the clip where he look at the clip where he discusses how he intervened to discusses how he intervened to try and stop megxit . try and stop megxit . try and stop megxit. >> prince harry and meghan in my try and stop megxit. >> prince harry and meghan in my view, they did. they came to an view, they did. they came to an event we did for female event we did for female education. they were brilliant education. they were brilliant and she was particularly good and she was particularly good and she was particularly good and she was particularly good

and articulate and on it and on and articulate and on it and on the detail. the detail. so you got on quite well. yeah, yeah, yeah i got on well. yeah, yeah, yeah i got on well with both of them. and i also worked with harry when he did his invictus games for disabled veterans in, in the olympic park. and so in a sort of, you know, pit of pomposity , of, you know, pit of pomposity, i thought, you know , this i thought, you know, this national asset is leaving our country. i think he's a force on the whole could be on the whole a force for good. i'm going to try and discourage him. and i had a pathetic attempt at that. it didn't work. no. and there you go . i failed to avert you go. i failed to avert megxit, but i did deliver brexit. >> ever keen to have a punch line there. james, what do you make of that? >> i let's be charitable about it. i think that speaks to this sort of big heartedness in some ways, of trying to keep everybody together and, you know, he understands the brickbats that people get almost as well as anybody else. maybe there's some kind of churchillian undertones here in, you know , the kind of way that

you know, the kind of way that churchill was slightly slavish towards edward the eighth. and then, you know, tried to build all these relationships with various princes of wales and other ones as well, maybe being the younger son of a of a duke or something that he understands a little bit of that, that kind of churchillian perspective as well with harry and trying to reach back into history for some of it. i can't say that i'm as perhaps disappointed that meghan markle is not in the uk as he is now. >> james. honestly, aubrey, i mean, what do the times readers make of boris johnson? obviously my readers on the telegraph have got quite unique relationship with him. he

got quite unique relationship with htouchz used ,, got quite unique relationship with htouch on;ed ,, got quite unique relationship with htouch on that, ,, got quite unique relationship with htouch on that much didn't touch on that much because it came at the end of a lot of other issues. >> and the reason why i didn't drill into that is i did feel it was a bit of a westminster bubble story that not everybody watching and listening to this show remembers the intricacies. so just take it through it, take us through it quickly. >> it was sort of incremental, but it typified the frustrations that were being aired by people in government, including people like rishi sunak and sajid javid, who resigned over that affair. and effectively, what happened was that there was a sitting conservative mp, chris pincher, who was serving as the deputy chief whip, i.e. the second most senior person in charge of both discipline, but also sort of pastoral issues to make sure that all the conservative mps were happy being looked after and if they had issues to do with work or to do with their home lives, that those could be addressed. and he was accused of groping several men at a private members club in london, and it was not necessarily that scandal that caused boris johnson's downfall. it was that there were accusations first, that boris johnson had been warned about

chris pincher's conduct previously , and downing street previously, and downing street denied that, saying that he didn't know when he'd brought him back into government earlier that year about any issues to do with chris pincher. then it emerged that there had been official warnings made to boris johnson about mr pinchers conduct , and johnson about mr pinchers conduct, and that was when, effectively the downing street line was proved to be untrue. and that was what precipitated rishi sunak and sajid javid to resign on that day, although you could argue that they just needed an excuse and they wanted to do it anyway because momentum was building. >> i mean, why did zahawi cite that as the reason ? that as the reason? >> well, i think i think at the end it was the it was boris's inability to acknowledge that dozens and dozens of ministers had quit and that you couldn't really keep a government together on it. but it was, as rob burrow says, that kind of accumulation of lots and lots of little things. i mean, you had bofis little things. i mean, you had boris say there that one of the things he takes most responsibility for is not being able to put his arm around more tory colleagues. it's always this kind of psychodrama of putting in letters to graham brady or whoever it is now, sort of saying, i've not got confidence in you anymore. and a chunk of it was that people as,

as boris said, were sent off in lockdown and just getting abuse onune lockdown and just getting abuse online because covid was horrible. but a lot of it was the fact that there was this guy called chris pincher, and i think that it was reported that bofis think that it was reported that boris once said, oh, pincher by name, pincher by nature, which i'm sure he'd deny. if name, pincher by nature, which i'm sure he'd deny . if that's i'm sure he'd deny. if that's your surname, you definitely don't get involved in a groping scandal. but it was that lack of caring about what mps were saying that did lead to the downfall, lack of seriousness. >> i mean, matthew and eve, matthew, first of all, let's be honest , matthew, first of all, let's be honest, boris johnson is a hate figure among the left. okay ? figure among the left. okay? you've got people like alastair campbell, tony blair's former spin doctor. he is so aggressive in his vocalised hatred of johnson. he's a pathological liar. he's this, he's that. he was caught in a lie on pincher. certainly. is he the bogeyman that the left suggests? >> well, i think one of the issues is that he is that people just perceive that he's in politics for himself. i mean, i think people on the left respect people in the right. but on the other hand, you talk politics. you talked a lot about brexit. if we remember the morning that was it, a sunday morning where he was deciding whether he was

going to post an article in favour of remain or in favour of leave, and he was on the phone, you know, canvassing opinion that's not showing a man of principle. and in terms of his legacy or why he was pushed out, what is extraordinary is he claims in the interview that he was like two points behind. i looked them up. he was the last four polls were six, nine, 20 and ten. the labour leads before he was at ten, none of which is two. >> well, he may have been looking at more . polling does looking at more. polling does vary. it does. >> no. they were literally the last four in the in terms of the day date order. and every single poll in 2022. before he resigned the whole of that year, labour was ahead. >> and i have to say as well, i mean, he had lost three by elections. yes, north shropshire in december 21st over owen paterson, chesham and amersham over the planning revolt in june 2021, and then tiverton and honiton in june 22nd. so this is not a man who was at the peak of his prowess by the time he was forced out in 30s eve . forced out in 30s eve. >> is boris johnson a pathological liar ? pathological liar? >> i, i he's not a pathological liar . he's >> i, i he's not a pathological liar. he's like lots of people we know a bit vague on the details, but do you think he outwardly has lied during his

premiership? that has been partygate . nobody will forgive partygate. nobody will forgive him for anybody who had relatives who they couldn't see in hospital will think it was an unfair, impossible situation. >> but the partying or the lying and the obfuscation about the partying, the obfuscation standing up in the house of commons saying there was no party, there was no and now saying there was no cake. >> there was virtually no drink, parties or party. >> okay , well, coming up next, >> okay, well, coming up next, we're going to be unpacking the unleashed bojo and reflecting on the year since the october 7th attacks. so more analysis of the interview and then looking forward to events tomorrow in israel . don't go anywhere israel. don't go anywhere because we've got much more to cover and i'm going to be speaking to a former israeli politician who knows benjamin netanyahu better than most and what she has to say about what's happening in lebanon is going to be compelling.

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. lots more to come in the next hour, we're going to be revisiting some of the most explosive revelations from my interview with boris johnson. i'll be rejoined by my punchy panel to dissect all of it. but first, here's the news with sam francis . francis. >> camilla, thank you. and good afternoon. it's exactly midday and the top story from the newsroom this lunchtime. sir keir starmer has raised concerns that the sparks of war in the middle east are, he says, igniting tensions here at home with a sharp rise in hate crimes against jews and muslims . against jews and muslims. writing in the sunday times, he's also raised fears of a direct conflict between israel and iran, which he says could have catastrophic global consequences. well, have catastrophic global consequences. well , the prime consequences. well, the prime minister's warning comes as israel has expanded its airstrikes in lebanon, while the conflict with hezbollah intensifies there. massive consecutive strikes have hit beirut's southern suburbs

overnight. and here are some of the latest pictures emerging out of the lebanese capital. it comes as israel is claiming its forces have now killed 440 hezbollah fighters in its ground operations in southern lebanon, and destroyed 2000 hezbollah targets . meanwhile, in gaza, targets. meanwhile, in gaza, several deaths have been reported after a strike there on a mosque . and just a breaking a mosque. and just a breaking line to bring you out of the middle east. we're just hearing that israel has issued new evacuation alerts for parts of southern lebanon. we can take you live to beirut, where the smoke from recent attacks continues to linger in the air. the israeli military issued that new evacuation alert today for residents of around, they say, 25 areas in southern lebanon , 25 areas in southern lebanon, calling on them to head immediately to the north above the awali river so that latest line just into us that israel has issued a new evacuation alert. 25 areas included . well,

alert. 25 areas included. well, that comes as the fourth and for now, the final flight for the uk nationals fleeing the conflict in lebanon is set to depart today. foreign secretary david lammy has been urging anyone still in the region to leave while they can. he says, warning that future flights aren't guaranteed . and back here at guaranteed. and back here at home, faith leaders in the uk are calling for unity after a year of horrific suffering. they say in the middle east conflict, more than 2600 protests have taken place across the uk so far, with 550 arrests, policing costs of over £46 million, anti—semitism and anti—muslim hate have reached record highs , hate have reached record highs, with thousands of incidents recorded so far. this year. in a joint letter today, faith leaders have rejected hatred and they're calling for communities to stand together. that comes as cross community events are planned today, including vigils

in oxford and in hyde park, as the country marks a year since the country marks a year since the war began . those are the the war began. those are the latest headlines for now. plenty more coming out of the middle east. we'll keep across that for you in the next hour. now though, back to for camilla the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> thanks, sam. and as sam said there, we will keep you updated with any breaking news on the situation in the lebanon. but up next, we're going to see how bofis next, we're going to see how boris johnson finally admits dunng boris johnson finally admits during our interview that rishi sunak played a big part in his removal from number 10. let's take a look. >> we not only got brexit done, delivered full national independence , right, which was independence, right, which was not an insignificant thing. we then we then used that to

deliver the fastest vaccine rollout of any european country. yes . so that we were able to yes. so that we were able to have the fastest economic recovery of any g7 country. when i ceased to be prime minister, we had. and the contrary to the predictions of the gloomsters, we had unemployment at a 50 year low, 620,000 more people in paid employment than when i became than before the pandemic. unemployment, youth unemployment at a 45 year low. so you said i was wrong. >> the problem was, unfortunately , you know, i think unfortunately, you know, i think that you would still be prime minister now if you were a better prime minister. >> i'm trying to tell you what were the things that i'm proud of that we did as i mean, who is to blame? >> let's talk about mr sunak. >> let's talk about mr sunak. >> so hang on a second. what we also did , what we also did, what also did, what we also did, what we also did, rather than was things you've done because you've got them all in your book. >> it's available from all good bookshops. >> it's available from all good bookshops . just answer my bookshops. just answer my question. yes. >> so you're making it fair enough. you're making a fair

point. if i was so great, how come i'm not still there? exactly. which is. which is a reasonable, fair point, isn't it? and i think the answer to that, sadly, is that there was an outbreak of irrationality in my party, and i think they made the wrong calculation. and you ask about rishi and rishi? >> i wasn't good enough. maybe i'm a good enough prime minister. >> if you look at the rest. >> if you look at the rest. >> maybe you're a great writer and a good journalist, you know. >> you know, i direct you to what we did. but, but, but so sunak. so. so. yes. so yes, i do. if you ask me, if you really push me to say, was it all a terrible mistake to kick me out? yes, i think it was. >> but was that rishi sunak? >> but was that rishi sunak? >> i think it was a goof. and yes, i think he was badly advised, badly advised. i think he was badly advised. i think he was. i think he was. >> well, what role did he play in your downfall? >> the role of the you know, one of the one of the, you know, he. he . he was a close colleague and he. he was a close colleague and friend who turned on me at a particularly critical time and i

thought it was a mistake. it was it was worse than a crime. it was a mistake. and so it proved. >> so you think so? it proved you were still in power. you'd have won the last general election. >> i think we would have. i think we would have had a very good shot. yes, i think we would. i mean, you know, we as i just just remind you, we were only a handful of points behind in the polls . nothing like the huge polls. nothing like the huge gaps that opened up and reform, which is, you know, we were discussing earlier. yes. was on zero. >> woo. well, i'm joined by a superstar panel to analyse that matthew laza eve pollard, james price and aubrey allegretti. thank you for remaining with me this morning for this boris bonanza. james. i mean, you were close to power because you were adviser to nadine zahawi, who's very close ally to boris johnson and actually close to rishi sunak. what was the nature of the breakdown of the relationship between the prime minister and his chancellor? >> i mean, you can see there i think that's definitely the best bit of the interview where he sort of lost for words. is he

going to say the things he really wants to say and kind of twist the knife in? and these kind of psychodramas between prime ministers and chancellors ? prime ministers and chancellors? we've seen them all before, blair and brown. we've seen lots of these other ones and it only really i think you can get a successful government really , successful government really, when they're really close to one another. and look at cameron and osborne. i think they worked handin osborne. i think they worked hand in glove with each other because you think about it, you go into the cabinet room with the chancellor, you've got the whole 2000 treasury civil servants with all the analysis you want, and the pm has maybe 1 or 2 people with him. he wants to do stuff and spend things, and the chancellor is there to say, no, you're not allowed to. so there's already that kind of inherent tension in there. and i've got some sympathy with bofis i've got some sympathy with boris thinking that rishi, at a crucial moment turned around and aned crucial moment turned around and knifed him. you know, there were times where all the other members of the cabinet would come out and tweet support for bofis come out and tweet support for boris and something, and rishi wouldn't for many, many hours. and you obviously knew that he was there. umming and ahhing. what am i going to resign now? is that best for me or not? and so i've got a lot of sympathy. i actually found rishi's original resignation letter still left in the photocopier in the special advisers office in the treasury, because we went in and succeeded

after them. i've got that at home that maybe i'll auction off at some point, put that up in the price toilet. >> aubrey , do you think that >> aubrey, do you think that sunak knifed him because he himself at that point had an eye on the premiership ? on the premiership? >> i think it's probably fair to assume that rishi sunak reached the end of his tether and decided that that was the moment at which it was most advantageous for him to resign. i think he knew that there would be others that followed suit behind him, but i think ultimately boris johnson is displaying an incredible amount of revisionism about what would have happened if he had stayed in post. again, you cannot sort of forget these facts. boris johnson was under investigation for lying to the house of commons about partygate, an inquiry that eventually precipitated his resignation to head off a suspension from the house of commons that almost certainly would have involved a by—election. now , like we just by—election. now, like we just

said, he'd lost several by elections, the sort of personal animosity and animosity against him was so high at that point that i think he would have struggled to hold on to his seat. yeah, we would have been in this incredible situation and i just think it would have been hard for him to hold on. >> i mean, yeah, i may ask him about uxbridge because i would have won uxbridge. maybe he would have with the ltn thing and the kind of adverse response to some of sadiq khan's eco measures . matthew, i mean, one measures. matthew, i mean, one of the reasons why people deserted the party was the successive prime ministers was liz truss. if boris johnson had remained in place, we wouldn't have had liz truss. we wouldn't have had liz truss. we wouldn't have had liz truss. we wouldn't have had the disastrous mini—budget. we wouldn't have had rishi sunak , an unelected had rishi sunak, an unelected prime minister, that people couldn't really believe in. we've now got a situation where nigel farage of reform is saying he's going after labour voters. he wouldn't be able to say that, not least in the red wall, if bofis not least in the red wall, if boris johnson was still conservative leader. >> well, it would have been. it would be much harder. but i think if boris johnson was still conservative leader and migration was at the levels it is, i think he would be. i mean,

i think one of the things that was interesting about the interview was how he wouldn't accept responsibility at all for the fact that net migration went up, obviously excluding covid, after we left the eu, and it's been higher in the last years of the tories than it ever was under any of the labour governments. but it's not just the prime ministers. i think sometimes the tories forget is we've had we've had not just five prime ministers, we've had five prime ministers, we've had five different governing philosophies. you know, we've had we had austerity . then under had we had austerity. then under cameron, squeezed middle under theresa cakeism bit of everything from boris, extreme reaganomics from from truss. and then i'm not quite sure how you describe sunak as him kind of managerialism basically. so that's five different approaches. it's not just like you had a it wasn't just a personality difficulty or there was a slip. it's there were what direction is the country going in? >> would he have done better than rishi sunak on july the fourth? >> i don't think so. i mean, i think they were both doomed. really. you're living in a country where the costs of everything are going up. i know that's true. worldwide , but that's true. worldwide, but people just here feel they've

been battened down. they've got less money to spend. you look at television viewing, you look at all sorts of things. you can see people not going out as much. nobody can afford it . and all nobody can afford it. and all you know is that that that party had had it, they'd had 14 years and it was the world was saying enough. >> but then he says that then he's to not blame for that because it's tories. tory colleagues losing their nerve. i mean , he does make a point, mean, he does make a point, doesn't he, about the tories. unbelievable ability to stab themselves. not just in the foot but in the face with these pretty publicly too. >> but he obviously had no control. he could not phone out somebody up and say, i hear you're going to do this. please don't. it will help nobody come and see me. you don't feel he ever did those sort of things. >> what's wrong with the tories, james? >> we haven't got long enough for that. well, but. but matthew's point is exactly right. what does the conservative party believe in? conservatism is a much richer, deeper tradition. and alongside

the kind of classical liberalism of margaret thatcher as well, you throw that into the mix. it's the best, i think, combination for the country. but when it's this kind of reheated cakeism, as you talked about or whatever else, it's much better than than socialism, even on its worst day. but it's we need to get to the bottom of what we actually believe in, which is why this tory party contest now is running so long. >> so it's classic johnson, isn't it? you know, there's no party discipline. at what point do you take vicarious responsibility for that? if there's no discipline in a newspaper, you blame the editor , newspaper, you blame the editor, correct? there's no discipline at this tv channel. you blame the ceo, you blame the prime minister. if there's no discipline in the conservative party, shall we see what boris johnson said about his regrets at hiring sue gray to be the partygate inquisitor ? how about partygate inquisitor? how about sue gray? is she responsible for your demise? what did you make of her appointment as starmer's chief of staff? >> i thought it was extraordinary, to be honest, but there you go. but look. but again, you asked me about mistakes i made. i shouldn't have appointed her. and asked her to do that thing, and i

made. >> do you think that? >> do you think that? >> well, because it turned out. what? i didn't know that she'd already been approached to be the chief of staff of ed miliband and who you're very close to on the net zero front. and he and i were at the same primary school, but sue gray and should she not have been appointed, should she not have that role in downing street? >> she's in a very influential position, i think. >> look, i mean, it's far be it from me to intrude on labour's private grief . but, you know, private grief. but, you know, i do wonder what the hell what on earth is going on with those guys?i earth is going on with those guys? i mean, you know this guy waheed alli, why is he giving money? to what? what was it about this? this mp called conlon that made him money for wallpaper and things ? no, on the wallpaper and things? no, on the contrary, as soon as as soon as i knew that money going into the what was then the ill fated refurbishment fund for the whole of number 10, as soon as i knew that it had come from a particular tory donor, i paid him back in full because i thought i cannot be. even though the money was going on, the blooming number 10 flat, which

was, you know, not something that i owned. >> well, do you think starmer's getting an easy ride? i paid how you paid him back in full when you paid him back in full when you made these sorts of errors. is he getting off lightly with dodi gate? >> i'm sure people were totally right to try to beat me up and, you know, whatever. that's politics. and i don't blame. i don't blame the tory party for wanting to chuck me out. if they thought that that was genuinely, you know, that's that's what tories do. they're, they're that's how they behave. regicidal. i tried to explain to them that it would not end well. okay. and it didn't got aubrey allegretti tutting. >> we'll come on to you in a moment in reaction to that clip. but matthew laza, i mean, it is extraordinary now, isn't it, that sue gray turned out to be keir starmer, not ed miliband? yes, chief of staff. although i wanted to react to the ed miliband thing by basically making a point about him being an equally net zero zealot.

>> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> i mean, sue gray is being tapped up by labour to be in charge of keir starmer's downing street operation, while at the same time apparently carrying out an impartial report into partygate. >> yeah, i mean, i think sue maintains that discussions only took place after after the report. but i mean , starmer was report. but i mean, starmer was asked that repeatedly, i think by nick ferrari on lbc and couldn't answer. i mean and we also he referenced he slightly mauled the name as he does, but he referenced sue grey's son, who's now a labour mp who's called liam conlon . to be called liam conlon. to be honest, anybody who put who put that into google way before would known. liam conlon has been a long time labour activist. i think he chaired the labour party, irish society for a long time , so it wouldn't have a long time, so it wouldn't have been news in relation to lord alli having given liam conlon ten grand for his election campaign, one of only two prospective labour mps and lo and behold, he gets a pass, we think, given to him by liam conlon mum, sue gray. >> this is i mean look. >> this is i mean look. >> yeah, i mean labour's got its got its issues over that. i mean i would say that waheed alli,

who's a labour peer, is the donors that boris used to have. i mean he was saying earlier that he was reminding us of the daylesford organic food boxes that used to turn up at the corner of downing street throughout the premiership of mr johnson. >> yes. no, indeed. aubrey, why were you tutting? >> well , i were you tutting? >> well, i think what boris johnson struggles to get away from is that he is literally recorded standing up in the house of commons saying that he accepts sue greys report and its recommendations in full. and so it looks difficult now if you're trying to muddy the waters, it looks like you're sort of trying to get one over on your political opponent, keir starmer, by claiming that she had some sort of underhand intentions when at the time you stood there and took responsibility for everything and said what she found was correct . correct. >> also, unless i've got fuzzy memory syndrome, which probably likely after the week, we've all had , and the sue gray report had, and the sue gray report wasn't as bad as everyone thought it would be, was it? >> no, i mean, that was the point. >> yeah, that was the point. >> yeah, that was the point. >> and we were expecting it could be worse. people were expecting it to be worse for

harriet harman and just taken him to down chinatown. >> it was kind of all right. >> it was kind of all right. >> it was kind of all right. >> i think that the broader problem with all this is that the prime minister is also the first lord of the treasury, but he's also the minister for the civil service. now, if you accept someone like dominic cummings analysis of the weakness of the british state, and i do this idea that someone would call it the blob, and the fact that it's so difficult to get anything done right, and it's only covid that, you know, is so extraordinary that we managed to get things done, like the vaccine rollout, by ignoring all the main rules. if you're the prime minister and you're being frustrated that you're pulling these metaphorical levers and not being able to get the levelling up you want, or not being able to get the change you want done, you're the only person who could do something about that. so if you've got these people who, lo and behold, turn out to be massive labour supporters and their chiefs of staff, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest. you're the person whose job it is to kind of, to use a boris phrase, to clear out those augean stables, right? to clear all the all the effluence away and get a system in that actually works. he didn't do that because he was too busy being distracted by who knows what. yeah. and that's the problem. >> but it's interesting you're mentioning dominic cummings and sue gray in the same breath there. you know, we've now got

two administrations where we are talking about the adviser, the person who should practically be invisible in the background, being bigger than the prime minister, almost bigger than prime minister, pushing, having arguments with the head of policy, morgan mcsweeney, pushing desks away . it's so pushing desks away. it's so reminiscent of that of the johnson era who wants to have the prime minister's ear? who's closer to power ? i bet the closer to power? i bet the pubuc closer to power? i bet the public finds it rather pathetic. but anyway, coming up next, we're going to be looking. finally, once we conclude this whole interview extravaganza, we're going to be looking at the legacy and future of boris johnson. see you in

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news. welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news . we're tominey show on gb news. we're coming to the end of the boris marathon. now the finish line is

in sight. okay so up next we're going to see a clip from my earlier interview. does boris intend to make a cincinnatus return to politics? and is he really enjoying his life in blameless obscurity? let's take a look . a look. >> i think you will agree that with the boundary changes and everything else, it would have been possible for me to overcome a two point deficit in two and a half years. >> well, you might have lost your seat, right? >> i might have overcome a two point deficit in two and a half years. plus, reform was on zero, right? okay , so that was that right? okay, so that was that was of one uxbridge. that was the position. no, i think i would have won uxbridge. all right. why not? why not? that was the position as i left it. right. | was the position as i left it. right. i was not responsible for what then happened. >> okay. so are you itching to come back? >> no. >> no. >> why do you want to? do you want to? what was this cincinnatus comment about returning to the plough? cincinnati. come back. >> cincinnati. cincinnati. so cincinnatus was a cincinnatus used to return. i've basically taken up my plough. i think that

i'm living a very happy life of blameless , rustic obscurity . i'm. blameless, rustic obscurity. i'm. >> i don't know if you like obscurity, though. >> blameless. rustic obscurity. do you like making and. yeah. i'm working on. on various books. such as? i produced this one. obviously, shakespeare is coming. that's right. and. and various things like that. >> but don't you want to return to the political fray in the varne? >> i used to say, as i used to say, as i used to say, and i repeat, i think the chances of my mounting a comeback getting back into into number 10 are about as good as my chances of being reincarnated as an olive, or decapitated by a frisbee, or being locked in a disused fridge, or blinded by a champagne cork. >> he literally used those phrases to describe the unlikelihood of you becoming prime minister, and then you became prime minister, so you could stage a comeback. >> i think it remains of that order of probability and what

remains. you know, if you i don't know what the odds are of being blinded by a champagne cork or locked in a disused fridge or decapitated by a frisbee, younger, fitter, younger in a fridge to be fair, there was not disused. it was. it was very cold. and that was that was the beginning of the of the general election campaign. >> can we get a yes or no? are you going to make a political comeback? yes. >> i think i'm at my chances about as good as being locked in about as good as being locked in a disused room. >> it's not a no, is it? or no? >>— >> it's not a no, is it? or no? >> or blinded by champagne? >> or blinded by champagne? >> lots of people shaking their heads. matthew laza is exhausted by that exchange. i didn't understand. >> it was. it's very hard to keep up, isn't it? there's a lot going on there. i mean, you know it. one might say that the fashionable adhd may be an issue there. if i was an adhd doctor, i'd just. >> avoidance tactics. >> avoidance tactics. >> i think i think it's a mixture. i mean, i think the sort of bumbling for avoidance only gets you so far, and i think people have kind of had enough of it. what was once cute is now is now irritating. i mean, he clearly does want to come back. he clearly does want to be churchill. he's having his blameless life in the country, presumably. is he going to start making building walls like churchill used to do? >> didn't making jam actually.

>> didn't making jam actually. >> is he making jam? maybe he's going to sell it like meghan. >> oh, he and meghan can start a company together. i did say that. i think that was the point where you were getting miked up, and you had to leave the interview to come into the studio, but yeah, he's making jam. he's putting johnson jam in jars. he can't get it to coagulate, and he's a loving life. eve. >> amazing. that's all i can say. would you buy some, eve? i think we'd all buy. i tell you what. i will read the book now. i mean, i've now become so fascinated by this man. >> good read, to be fair. >> good read, to be fair. >> yes, he's a very good journalist, very good writer. >> saying earlier it's got really bad reviews. telegraph gave it five stars. >> the telegraph gave it five stars. but a lot of the reviewers, a lot of the reviewers, a lot of the reviewers are men. interesting to see if they get or not. it might for be boris. i'd like, i think if i was his publishers . i think if i was his publishers. i think if i was his publishers. i think women look at nadine, who thinks she's wonderful. there are a lot of women. >> she's not a book reviewer. she is a book writer. >> that's true. but there will be. there'll be a lot of people who think he's one of the old school and he, you know, i mean, they won't know all the detail that, you know, that we've been through today. and they will think, oh, he was taller and

blonder than rishi. and he was. i mean, there is that feeling. and then there's a lot of people who feel like alastair about him. >> yes, quite. james, why on earth would he have made the comment about cincinnatus if he wasn't staging some kind of churchillian return? >> well, this is wonderful because i get to use my ancient history degree for the first time ever being useful, right? you set me up here, you know, in a minute he's going to mention he went to oxford. >> everyone talking about. >> everyone talking about. >> we want to know where the spectacles came from first. >> i'll tell you that one later. well, famously about cincinnatus is that he put his plough down and returned to rome to go and save the day. but there are plenty of other classical allusions. if he'd wanted to someone like diocletian, who, when they tried to get him to come back after splitting the empire into five, he said, no, no, if you knew how much fun i was having growing my cabbages, i wouldn't be coming back. or sulla, who was the dictator who gave up power willingly. he could have used all those. he used the guy portillo territory in the portillo hour. >> fully carry on, james. >> fully carry on, james.

>> well, but he used the example of someone who went. oh, do you know what you need me so much, i guessin know what you need me so much, i guess in your hour of need i'll come back to rome and save the day. so that's, i think, maybe all the evidence we need that he wants to come back. >> how desperate does the country need to be, aubrey, for them to be? we talked earlier about make america great again. bnng about make america great again. bring boris back again. could that be a slogan? >> well, i mean , don't forget >> well, i mean, don't forget that he sort of toyed with making a comeback after liz truss's downfall. yes, there were questions about whether or not he could return again as prime minister, and it's slightly disputed whether or not he would have got over the 100 mps threshold in order to get on the ballot paper, but it sort of suggested that he still felt quite wounded, and i don't think he felt that he would have sort of rode to victory at the election. on the back of her very disastrous and short lived premiership. but i think there is a question about what the next five years looks like and whether or not the boosterism that we're used to hearing from bofis that we're used to hearing from boris johnson starts to be missed by the public because of the sort of narrative that keir starmer is certainly trying to

peddle very early on in his premiership about difficult decisions. you know, the massive spending cuts that are going to be needed, he says, to fix the sort of holes in the economy that were left by his tory predecessors. but actually, i wonder if boris johnson finds that quite a useful space to be able to manoeuvre in over the next five years. >> i mean, matthew , if you were >> i mean, matthew, if you were one of the tory leadership hopefuls , would you want to keep hopefuls, would you want to keep bofis hopefuls, would you want to keep boris quite close? would you be seeking boris johnson's counsel right now? i say that because as much as you might want to criticise him, he did win the highest popular vote since 1979. >> yeah. i don't think you'd be wanting his counsel. i think when it came to the election, particularly if you've had if labour has had a few difficult years, you might be wanting his stardust. >> yeah. you might want him on the campaign trail. >> i don't think you'd be asking for strategic advice, but i think you would. well, you you would well want to have a bit of a oomph in the campaign. >> i mean, he hasn't endorsed anyone, although he did single

out one politician for praise. and that was pretty patel, which i thought was interesting. i thought if priti patel remained in that race, he might be inclined to have backed her stick with prit , he used to say. stick with prit, he used to say. but do you think it would be a help or hindrance to the current quartette to have boris johnson come out in their support? >> i think it's too soon, but i think maybe 2 or 3 years time we just don't know which way it'll go. we don't know what more bofis go. we don't know what more boris might write. we don't know what boris will do. it'll be interesting to see you can't even interesting to see you can't ever. i mean, sometimes old prime ministers do come back and lend a hand. sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. >> can i thank you all for your expertise and insight this morning? it's been a little bit of a marathon rather than a sprint, but we've enjoyed it. aubrey allegretti , james price, aubrey allegretti, james price, eve pollard and matthew lazar. thank you very much indeed. coming up next, i'm going to be joined by the israeli politician sharren haskel. and we were going to reflect, of course, on the horrific anniversary of the october 7th attacks. but before then, we've got the news again with sam francis .

with sam francis. >> camilla, thank you very much. just coming up to 9:30 and we start with some breaking news coming to us from the home office this lunchtime that a record breaking 973 migrants crossed the english channel in just a single day yesterday. that's according to official figures , just into us in the figures, just into us in the last few minutes. they arrived in 17 small boats, surpassing the previous record set in june of 882. saturday's surge also came as four migrants, including a young child, sadly died, making the journey across the channel. the total number of arrivals this year has now reached 26,612. well, it follows a new deal by the home secretary, yvette cooper and g7 ministers to tackle criminal smuggling gangs and some news also just breaking in the last hour or so on the conflict

ongoing in lebanon that israel has issued new evacuation alerts for parts of the south of the country. we can just take you live now to pictures of the scene above. the skyline in beirut, where clouds of smoke continue to linger in the air after recent attacks. the evacuation alert on sunday for residents of around 25 areas is calling on them to head immediately north, the idf have said on social media, asking them to move north of the awali river . and in them to move north of the awali river. and in an afternoon of breaking news, a british climber stranded on a mountainside in northern india has been rescued after being trapped for three days. reports have said that fey manners and an american, michelle dorvack, were stuck at more than 21,000ft after losing their equipment in a rockfall on jacumba mountain . a french jacumba mountain. a french climbing group helped them to descend before being airlifted to safety by the indian air

force . it reportedly took local force. it reportedly took local teams more than 80 hours to battle through bad to weather finally reach them. while the 37 year old has celebrated the rescue on social media, saying they are back down and safe , they are back down and safe, returning to news in the middle east. and sir keir starmer has raised concerns that sparks of war there are igniting tensions. he says at home, with a sharp rise in hate crimes against jews and muslims. writing in the sunday times today, he also raised fears of a direct conflict between israel and iran, which he says could have catastrophic global consequences . catastrophic global consequences. and finally, a memorial service marking the 50th anniversary of the guildford pub bombings is taking place. remembering those who died in 1974. five people were killed in that attack when the ira detonated two bombs at two pubs in surrey. families community leaders and members of the military are among those at

the military are among those at the service, honouring those who lost their lives. well, that's the latest from the gb newsroom for now. i'll be back with you for now. i'll be back with you for a full roundup at 1:00 for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone , sign up to to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash

>> he was gay about three weeks ago, which is which is mish segment is over now, and we're going to focus on the anniversary, the first anniversary, the first anniversary of the october 7th attacks tomorrow. >> and joining me is israeli politician sharren haskel, a member of the knesset for the new hope party. thank you so much for your time today, sharon. if i may call you that. i've interviewed boris, you, camilla. thank you. i've interviewed boris johnson, the former prime minister, at length

and he told me about his own support for a two state solution in the israeli—palestine conflict. do you support a two state solution? is that still feasible? >> well, matter of fact, the two state solution has failed in the 7th of october is a proof of that. 7th of october is a proof of that . i 7th of october is a proof of that. i mean, gaza was the palestinian state. it had an autonomy . we gave them the land autonomy. we gave them the land without anything in return. we evacuated every single inch of gaza. we even took the dead people out of their grave to be buned people out of their grave to be buried in israel. and they turned it into a singapore or hong kong. no, on the contrary, they turn it into a nest of terror, investing all their money and effort into weapons and hatred and violence. that was the dedication of that state. and unfortunately, as all israeli woke up on the 7th of october, completely shocked and traumatised, we understand that

this solution is not viable. not while there isn't a palestinian leader who cannot even condemn the 7th of october and sharon, if the hostages are returned, would the war end? >> i mean, that's the mood music coming out of israel. but is it possible now, even if the hostages are returned to their families ? families? >> well, i think so. i think that most of the capability of hamas have been broken down. there's still strongholds like areas where hamas is actually in control. civilians . and we need control. civilians. and we need to break that, too. i think the key to that is through unrwa. but we have to say what we are doing is to bring back our hostages. every deal that was until now only talked about 30, 40 maximum 50 hostages. that will be returned. what about the rest of them ? what about 50, 60 rest of them? what about 50, 60 and 70 more people who in every deal that came to the table,

were meant to stay in gaza? maybe forever. what we want to do is to bring back our family members, our brothers and sisters and babies and grandparents back to the loving arms of their families. >> in his book, borisjohnson >> in his book, boris johnson suggests that the israeli prime minister , benjamin netanyahu, minister, benjamin netanyahu, left a bug in his bathroom when he visited him when he was foreign secretary. what do you make of that story? do you think it's true ? it's true? >> well, camilla, i think maybe we really wanted to hear how the pipes sound in downing ten. i mean, look, to be honest, it really sounds like a really good story to sell a book , but would story to sell a book, but would it surprise you to learn that a listening device was found in the toilet after netanyahu visited? well, i don't think that's definitely not by the prime minister. something like that would have been left. this is not something that i think is

a possibility at all, especially not among friends and definitely not among friends and definitely not among friends and definitely not a prime minister. but, you know, the story sells, and i think it's a it's a really good story. in order to sell the book, sharon, it's going to be a hugely emotional day for the israeli people tomorrow. >> as you say, we've still got hostages who will have been in captivity for a year . how hostages who will have been in captivity for a year. how are you going to be marking as a country the anniversary of the terror attacks by hamas on the october the 7th? >> so it's really it's really difficult. and we are, you know, marking it while we have a full war up in the northern border of israel so that our family members can also return back to their homes in our northern border for a year, they were evacuated and they were refugees. they couldn't go back to their homes to get to their property or to their belongings . property or to their belongings. and after a year, it's about

time that we will return back the safety and the security to our people. and that actually puts a big shade also on these events where we have memorials in small towns and national memorials are going talking to the families of some of the hostages who are still being held in those dungeons of torture in gaza . it's torture in gaza. it's heartbreaking and it's very difficult. i don't think any israeli thought we could be at this point. and i think that the most difficult thing as a mother, it is to try and communicate it to my children, you know, they see the pictures of the hostages everywhere and they're asking questions . and they're asking questions. and how do you communicate to a child that you know , people were child that you know, people were abducted from their beds? and when they ask you, mummy, can that happen to me too ? what do that happen to me too? what do you answer to them when you know the answer can be yes, we are still at war. we are still at risk. we spend the night in the

shelters and trying to make it look a little bit nicer for them. but i think as mothers it's the most difficult day and definitely the most difficult year that we've actually experienced here. >> all right. well, sharon heskel, thank you very much indeed for joining heskel, thank you very much indeed forjoining me. i hope tomorrow goes as well as one can expect. i look forward to speaking to you again soon on this. thank you, thank you. well, coming up next, we're going to lighten the mood a little bit because i'm going to be joined by the food editor of the jewish chronicle as we celebrate a taste of britain for the jewish new year, and more solemn occasions as we look to october 7 anniversary and yom kippur. don't go

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. oh, i'm delighted to see a table of food in front of me after we've had this boris johnson marathon. today, i'm joined now by the food editor of the jewish chronicle, victoria,

for our taste of britain. and as the british community have celebrated rosh hashanah, so the new year , we're now approaching new year, we're now approaching yom kippur, which is the day of atonement. i'm trying to get this right, victoria. i do have a jewish stepmother, bernice, who i'd like to send my love to right now. and so i'm kind of familiar with all this. i don't normally get to eat food on my show because i don't cover portillo, so this is fun . so portillo, so this is fun. so what are you going to show me? it's our lucky day, isn't it? it is our lucky day. this is great. >> i've gone full jewish mother . >> i've gone full jewish mother. >> i've gone full jewish mother. >> i've gone full jewish mother. >> i've brought a whole selection of things . this is too selection of things. this is too much for two of us. but we've got a hungry crew outside. i'm very aware the eye is watching. >> when i was preparing all of this. so i bought a sort of smorgasbord. probably the wrong word for what i'm describing of rosh hashanah food and some breaking of the fast food as we're in between the two. yes. >> so, as you say, we've just celebrated the new year, and we do that very traditionally with apples dipped in honey. >> lovely. so we would, when we bnngin >> lovely. so we would, when we bring in the new year, say a blessing and dip the apple in

the honey and pass it around . my the honey and pass it around. my kids love. >> why the apple? is it something biblical about it ? something biblical about it? >> it's round like the earth, some say. and also i think there's a practical reason that they grew in lots of places. so it would be easy to source. so a couple of reasons there. i hadnt couple of reasons there. i hadn't really questioned it. and then in coming on the show i thought, well, i'd better check why that was. so that was why. and the honey, apparently in sources i've read that in biblical times it may not have been bee honey, which is what we use. it may have been date honey . use. it may have been date honey. the land of milk and honey would have been from the abundance of dates that grew in israel. >> you better hide that jar. because my middle child, my only son, is a honey addict, seems to dnnk son, is a honey addict, seems to drink it directly from a squeezy. yeah, yeah. so be careful with that . now, what can careful with that. now, what can i try first? right. >> so if you want to dip or we can use the drizly thing. >> well, i know, but look that's a nice look. it's kind of like that's good and bad . that's part that's good and bad. that's part of my five a day. but it's smothered in very sweet stuff.

yes . there's a thing going on at yes. there's a thing going on at the moment where we're dipping apples in peanut butter. oh, i love that. this is nice though, isn't it? it is. >> i don't think it has quite the health benefits. >> can i try the date , honey? >> can i try the date, honey? yeah, the date honey is a whole different thing. >> you'd use this more probably in cooking nowadays, but it's worth a try to see the difference. now. >> victoria. forgive me. i've got a catholic father and a jewish mother, so i'm well used to gatherings around food. we're marking something truly tragic for the israeli people and for jews . tomorrow. yes. and yet, at jews. tomorrow. yes. and yet, at the same time, the jewish community does celebrate with food. does celebrate with feasts. even the most awful atrocities . why is that? atrocities. why is that? >> do you know why i don't know, i think we just keep going with food and food. maybe brings some. it brings us all together around a table. yeah, and it would bring some joy. and it also, what i love about it is that we're all doing it everywhere in the world. yes. so i think there is a real communal

feel about it. and there'd be traditional foods at certain times. so rosh hashanah would be actually in the seventh month of the year, in the autumn time . the year, in the autumn time. but it's a time of harvest and abundance . so a lot of the abundance. so a lot of the festivals bring in what was going on in the world, really. i love the seasonality of eating apples , which are from now apples, which are from now another tradition of rosh hashanah is to eat a new fruit. on the second day, you would try a new fruit that you haven't had that season. so we often go for pomegranate. >> yeah. do we, do we eat? what do we think of pomegranates? >> it's some i would suggest that there are fruit that you sprinkle on a fruit salad, and then you pick them out and eat then you pick them out and eat the fruit salad. also great for photography. >> amazing. >> amazing. >> they are. at one point i had to ban them pleasing. >> i had to ban them from the juicy fruity nut. >> totally worse than that sabra. i think they're called. they are prickly pear and the inside those is like just one big crunch. >> is there any reason why you're withholding the cake and these sweet things you just

haven't got there yet? you're trying to give me the fruit, and i really appreciate that . but i really appreciate that. but being on air now since 930. >> okay, you're hungry. >> okay, you're hungry. >> well, this looks nice. >> well, this looks nice. >> what's this? so this is my super special rosh hashanah honey cake. >> oh , now you are talking my language. >> victoria, when we've moved on from our honey and our apple and blah, blah, i'm laying this out as a little makeshift place. okay, so this is something. it's not my grandma's recipe. i've tried to get close to it. honey cake is a everyone in the ashkenazi community. the jews from eastern europe will eat honey cake over this time of yeah >> we'll have it at rosh hashanah to bring it closer so we can have a shot. >> nice . it's more difficult to >> nice. it's more difficult to make than you. you mix everything together and there's no there's no whisking in air or anything like that. it's a whole load of ingredients into a bowl, into the oven. sometimes doesn't even contain honey. it has a lot of. all right. mine does. i'm going to go for it. >> please do. i can't resist it. it's there. it's willing me the most lovely cake. >> but when you say from your grandmother.

>> so sorry. what part of the world is this? a kind of jewish tradition? or is it, you say about ashkenazi jews? it's from that part of the world. and yes, yes. >> so a lot of english jews are the predominance are ashkenazi. so we would eat. it's really good, isn't it. it's quite herby. yeah. it's got ginger, cinnamon, a lot of cinnamon, a little bit of allspice. herby. yeah. >> oh that's nice. golden. >> oh that's nice. golden. >> it's got so much sugar in i can't tell you has it. yeah. >> am i going to be bouncing off the walls in a moment. possibly. it might be channelling my inner bofis it might be channelling my inner boris unleashed on cake . but boris unleashed on cake. but when would you have this in the sequence of things. >> okay, so this you would have on rosh hashanah . but also it's on rosh hashanah. but also it's quite typical for people to break their fast . so on yom break their fast. so on yom kippur we fast for 25 hours. you would think we'd fasted for a week. we go into it with a meal and i'm always advising people, what's the best thing to start with? and then when you finish, very often people have a cup of tea. everyone has a cup of tea.

yes. and you might have it with some honey cake or with some challah. >> now tell me. finally, victoria, we have to break into this. would you believe? because while i'm eating this cake, i'm told that sue gray, keir starmer's chief of staff, has resigned. so tell me something very quickly about that bread excel centre the cake. well , you excel centre the cake. well, you may need to send her this. you might need to send some of this to starmer, because i think it might be a difficult weekend for him. but go on, tell me about this bread. okay. so update our viewers here. >> we'll have a round loaf, normally a hollow bread if you can imagine. it would be a long plat. >> oh, that looks nice. >> oh, that looks nice. >> and we often stud it with raisins. >> this has reminded me a little bit of the italian side of my family and panettone. is that right? >> it's not as cakey, but it's. it's an enriched bread. it's got eggs. it has no dairy because then you can have it with a meat meal because we don't eat milk and meat together . well that's sweet. >> is it wrong that i want to smother it in butter? not at all. no. good. no. victoria, do you mind if i cut you off? go for it. i'll have to do a little

spiel. now i'm going to deal with the sue gray news, which, in a way is quite nicely linked to this. because she did the partygate report, didn't she? on bofis partygate report, didn't she? on boris johnson. she was the one who was his inquisitor. in fact, he spoke about it on gb news this morning, he spoke about it on gb news this morning , talking about the this morning, talking about the fact that he made a mistake in asking sue gray to carry out that report . sue gray apparently that report. sue gray apparently the prime minister's chief of staff has resigned. we discussed it on this panel. staff has resigned. we discussed it on this panel . this is the it on this panel. this is the problem that happens when the adviser becomes the story and then starts overshadowing the prime minister. then starts overshadowing the prime minister . just to give you prime minister. just to give you a bit of background on this, we don't know where the discussions were held with sue gray and keir starmer before she carried out the party report, which then questioned her impartiality . questioned her impartiality. we've got a problem with a donation that was made by lord alli to sue grey's son, liam conlon. now the labour mp for beckenham and penge. she is rumoured to have given lord alli that pass to downing street after he gave her son £10,000, which i've said before on this show looks a bit iffy to me .

show looks a bit iffy to me. we've then got rumours of disagreements within downing street between sue gray and morgan mcsweeney, who is the person in charge of labour's policy. and now it seems it's too much to bear some other allegations that she's interfered with the funding of a stadium in belfast. suffice to say that gb news will be keeping you updated with every aspect of this story, as it unfolds. it's just breaking news now. thank you for joining just breaking news now. thank you forjoining me all morning. i will be back next week at 930. but up next news of the big resignation in downing street. enjoy your sunday. >> we'll see a cold snap which will quickly develop into a warm front. boxt boiler repairs sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello and welcome to your gb news weather update from the met office. it's cloudier out there today but brighter tomorrow with sunshine and showers before turning colder midweek, so we have an area of low pressure dominating situated out towards the west , with frontal systems

the west, with frontal systems wrapping around this, bringing a lot of cloud and patchy outbreaks of rain . there is some outbreaks of rain. there is some brightness through this morning and into the afternoon , and into the afternoon, especially across eastern parts of england, but for the bulk of the uk it is going to be turning increasingly cloudy, with outbreaks of rain and drizzle. the heaviest is going to be across the south—west parts of northern ireland and into wales , northern ireland and into wales, with the odd rumble of thunder here too. otherwise, temperatures similar to previous days 17 or 18 degrees as the high in the south. now, as we go through this evening, rain across northern parts of england will continue to push into parts of scotland so heavy for a time towards the south, cloudy conditions towards the north of scotland. some early evening sunshine towards the west of northern ireland, but still some outbreaks of rain towards the east. otherwise quite a messy picture across england and wales, but some early evening sunshine also coming towards the southwest as we end sunday. so sunday evening and overnight

heavy spells of rain continuing to push its way north and eastwards, affecting much of scotland, northwestern and eastern parts of england. behind that, turning clearer, we'll see clear spells into the night, but also some heavy downpours. temperatures still staying up rather mild for the time of year 11 or 12 degrees to start monday morning. so we have heavy spells of rain continuing across much of rain continuing across much of northern parts of scotland, but elsewhere any mist or fog soon lifting and then a much brighter day . but as we go into brighter day. but as we go into the afternoon we will see some heavy showers developing, possibly with the odd rumble of thunder and also merging at times to give some longer spells of rain. otherwise highs staying up at 17 or 18 degrees. >> heavy showers first thing will be followed by a warm, cosy . boxt boilers sponsors weather on

well. a very good afternoon. it's 1:00 on well. a very good afternoon. it's1:00 on sunday, well. a very good afternoon. it's 1:00 on sunday, the 6th of it's1:00 on sunday, the 6th of october. this is the weekend on gb news. it's been reported that sue gray has stepped down from the prime minister's top team, and has been appointed as the prime minister's envoy for nafions prime minister's envoy for nations and regions. whatever that is. we'll bring you the very latest rachel reeves plan to significantly increase borrowing in the budget , risks borrowing in the budget, risks pushing up mortgage rates, but could this be devastating for the pennies in your pocket? then gb news can exclusively reveal that more than 26,000 small boat migrants have crossed the engush migrants have crossed the english channel so far this yeah english channel so far this year, with a record 973 crossing in a single day. and coming up in a single day. and coming up in the next hour. bad. not mad. that's how boris johnson has described russian president vladimir putin in his sit down interview with camilla tominey.

we'll be breaking down some of