robert jenrick and kemi badenoch make it through to the next round in the conservative leadership election. as tom tugendhat bows out of the race. what do you make to the final three contestants and our children worse off under labour? labour has ruled out a smartphone ban in schools, while at the same time the government has hired a new comms chief from chinese owned tiktok. there's also the ongoing row about imposing vat on private schools, and a top professor is warning that students can't read long books anymore . so are we doing books anymore. so are we doing enough to protect our children in the online world? plus, as we wait for rachel reeves much anticipated budget, do labour have a handle on our finances? while a report out today says that we're facing the biggest exodus of millionaires in the world with higher taxes apparently driving the wealthiest away, and it seems that labour's raid on the bank

account of pensioners doesn't stop at the winter fuel allowance. the chancellor is reportedly under pressure to scrap free prescriptions for 60 to 65 year olds. what do you make to that? and finally, as a deported albanian criminal exploits a legal loophole in the european convention of human rights to come back to the uk , rights to come back to the uk, i'm asking if it is now time to leave the echr. well, that's all to come in the next hour. leave the echr. well, that's all to come in the next hour . but to come in the next hour. but first, the latest news headlines with lewis mckenzie . with lewis mckenzie. >> thank you very much. miriam. good evening. it's 6:00. i'm lewis mckenzie. here in the gb newsroom. as you've just been hearing, james cleverly has overtaken robert jenrick to the top spot in the latest round of voting to be the next leader of the conservative party. cleverly leads the pack with 39 votes. robert jenrick second with 31 and kemi badenoch in third on

30. tom tugendhat has now been eliminated from the race, with only 20 votes. the final two will be decided from the remaining three candidates at the next round of voting tomorrow afternoon . the director tomorrow afternoon. the director general of m15 has warned that isis and al—qaeda and pardon al—qaeda are on the rise again, with an increased terror risk unked with an increased terror risk linked to the conflict in the middle east. in a stark warning at the counter—terrorism operations centre, ken mcmullen revealed that iran has been unked revealed that iran has been linked to at least 20 deadly plots in the uk over the past two years. he says both groups are attempting to export terror. highlighting the recent deadly attacks in moscow as a brutal demonstration of what isis is capable of. as the conflict, as the conflict between israel and iran intensifies. m15 is on high

alert for potential domestic repercussions . starmer is set repercussions. starmer is set for crucial talks in berlin, joining leaders from the us , joining leaders from the us, france and germany this saturday. the meeting will focus on the ongoing war in ukraine and the escalating tensions in the middle east. it comes as the situation is rising in lebanon, prompting urgent diplomatic efforts among the so—called quad nations. efforts among the so—called quad nafions.the efforts among the so—called quad nations. the prime minister's spokesperson says the meeting highlights the uk's commitment to tackling international issues, alongside its allies . issues, alongside its allies. water companies in england and wales have been ordered to return more than £157 million to their customers for failing to meet crucial targets on pollution and interrupting supplies. ofwat has demanded the money comes off the bills for households and businesses from next year. it follows a previous order to repay £114 million from

last year . the uk population has last year. the uk population has seen its largest annual increase in size since 1971. the office for national statistics estimates that the total population grew by 1% in just a year , reaching 68.3 million by year, reaching 68.3 million by mid 2023, covering england, scotland, wales and northern ireland. the ons says migration was the main factor behind the latest rise as deaths exceeded births by around 16,300. in the same period . and finally, as same period. and finally, as hurricane milton makes its way towards florida governor ron desantis says if you stay, you will die. satellite images show the storm churning through the gulf of mexico, with winds reaching almost up to 180 miles an hour. forecasters are warning of an 8 to 12 foot storm surge, the highest ever in the region,

and widespread flooding. it comes as just two weeks after hurricane helene claimed over 200 lives in the southeastern parts of the us . well, those are parts of the us. well, those are your latest gb news headlines. i'm lewis mckenzie. more from me in an hour's time for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> welcome back. it's 6:05 and you're watching dewbs& co with me . miriam cates standing in for me. miriam cates standing in for michelle dewberry tonight and joining me until 7:00 pm. i have a fantastic panel. former conservative cabinet minister michelle donelan and former labour adviser matthew laser. thank you so much for coming in. interesting day for former conservative party politicians were you surprised by the

result? it's been a really interesting race. >> well , interesting race. >> well, interesting for us political geeks out there because it's not been so straightforward. there's been many twists and turns in this , many twists and turns in this, and james cleverly has really come through and risen to the top. yeah. >> the underdog to start with. >> the underdog to start with. >> yeah exactly. so tomorrow is going to be quite nail biting. so i think it's quite clear cleverly's going to get into the final. but the question now is he kemi or is it generate. that's with him. >> and does anybody else care. i read today two thirds of the pubuc read today two thirds of the public aren't interested. >> yeah well i mean we've got memories of immediate post election defeat, leadership contest. we have quite a lot of those, quite a lot of those memories in the labour party and quite a lot of election defeats over the years. but i think, you know, i think people from the outside will be thinking of tom tugendhat going out. that is this kind of the end of the one nafion this kind of the end of the one nation tradition. >> as we follow that up in a minute, because we might take different views on that. so we'll be discussing that and much more till 7 pm, but we really want to hear from you. please join the discussion. so get your views into us at

gbnews.com/yoursay and we'll be bringing you, the viewer into the conversation later on in the show. so following up on that, the next round of voting in the conservative leadership election took place earlier this afternoon, and now we have the final three after tom tugendhat, who's the mp for tonbridge, was eliminated, getting just 20 votes from conservative mps. so that leaves james cleverly, kemi badenoch and robert jenrick left in the race and another vote will take place tomorrow afternoon to decide the final two. so james cleverly, as michelle was just saying , two. so james cleverly, as michelle was just saying, has shot into the lead on 39 votes, which is quite a big proportion of the remaining conservative party. while robert jenrick had 31 and kemi badenoch just one behind at 30 votes. and this comes as new polling released by more in common today shows that labour are now only one point ahead of the tories. so, michelle, we've said that the votes for the tories are not perhaps surprising after the conservative conference last week, where cleverly did very well. are you surprised by this polling that despite everything

that's going on, labour are only one point ahead? >> yeah, i mean, i think we shouldn't get too carried away. it's one poll, so let's not count our chickens yet. and there's a long way to the next general election. so now is not the time to get complacent and think that the next election is in any way in the bag. now is the time to really knuckle down as a party and to win back those votes and to deserve to be in power again. so to earn back the trust of the electorate. and we're only going to do that if we're only going to do that if we're united, if we're not navel gazing, if we're focused on core conservative principles, things like freedom of the individual, the family defending the nation, these are the things that people want to us actually believe in again and, and show and demonstrate that we're believing in. >> but michelle, you're supporting kemi badenoch and she was the favourite from the start of this race. she still looks like she's the favourite amongst the members who will make the final call. are you worried now that she might not get through to the final two? >> i think it's going to be tight but this was always going to be tight. all of those

candidates 1 think, are of a very high calibre. i've worked with each and every one of them, and i would be delighted for any of them to win. and i would follow them as the leader of the party. but i think that kemi has the edge in the sense that she can really cut through the noise. she's different and we need that now in the opposition as joana jarjue. >> but matthew, back to what you were saying about tom tugendhat. you, you think that him going out of the race represents something the conservatives have lost potentially? >> yeah, i think from the outside, you know, tom was the kind of the left candidate, as it were, the one nation candidate. and he's, you know, going out with 20 votes. it seems to be like it's the sort of end of that, you know , of of end of that, you know, of that strand in the party is now very much a minority strand. and the battle, as you say, is the exciting battle. is the battle a battle for the right? >> i mean, certainly those are the vibes, aren't they, that we all read about. you know, tom tugendhat was the left wing candidate, but is it just vibes? i mean, at the end of the day, he did say he'd be willing to leave the echr, which has been seen as a proxy for being right

wing. is he actually left wing? and, you know, one nation, i mean, that going back to the time of disraeli, actually, that was quite a conservative uniting the nation in parliament. the one nation group, sometimes called the no nation group because they don't believe in the nation. so do you think it's vibes or do you think he really is? >> well, i think i think what will be interesting to see is when we get through tomorrow. and if james cleverly, as michel says, is very likely to be in the final two, then it'd be interesting to see how cleverly plays it, because obviously, i mean, it seems to me from from a sort of labour point of view, what's happened in the tory party, particularly with labour's difficulties, is that, you know, some sort of double the number of tory mps a week ago have sort of decided they want to go for the nice guy, the person that voters want to go and have a pint with, which was kind of calm, not the sort of radical change that either jenrick or badenoch have been talking about. i mean, you know, just think about those speeches last week. i mean, james was was a good speech. it was good to say, you know, we want to be you know, planet normal again. but on the other hand, compare that with you know, kemi talking about reshaping the state with a

zero review of everything the state does, or jenrick obviously majoring on echr and whatever it takes to stop the boats and get immigration down, that's very different. so it seems that there's been a slight kind of swing back. some people might say swing back into complacency, others into kind of stability, but into that kind of centrist message. so maybe i'm being harsh on the on the right wing drift, but cleverly, clearly now the front runner, what does he actually stand for? >> because unlike the other three candidates, he hasn't really laid out his stall either in terms of philosophy or policy. is he just continuity from the last government? >> well, no, i don't think he is continuity at all, to be fair to james. and he is actually on the right of the party naturally, too . and he's somebody that was too. and he's somebody that was a brexiteer throughout has been loyal to other prime ministers, which i think is an excellent quality as well. and we shouldn't dismiss that . and i shouldn't dismiss that. and i think what he is saying he stands for are the core conservative principles. but i think one of the things that kemi has done very well is say, now is not the time to flood everybody with policies. we're five years off a general election, probably what we need to be doing is getting back to our core conservative principles and on the doorstep . i heard

and on the doorstep. i heard time and time again people had got confused about what did the conservative party actually stand for? what were they buying into, what are they voting for? and it wasn't helped by the fact that we had a number of prime ministers. so a number of faces representing our party variety. yes, variety . that's true. so i yes, variety. that's true. so i think a realignment with our core principles is essential. whoever wins, who are the labour party most frightened of , matthew? >> well, i would say that instinctively they're probably most frightened of cleverly. and because i think that the labour party has a remaining belief that you know, keir's polling numbers on a personal level have always, have not always been great. they're not great at the moment, but they had a bit of a surge around the election. but they but he's often polled behind the party and he never quite passes the. do you want to have who's who do you want to have who's who do you want to have a pint with test. and i think that yes, absolutely . or think that yes, absolutely. or a glass of i'm sure it's beyond a pint in the executive box. so i think that that's, that's the fear. i think that. with jenrick, the issue will be

whether whether you'll end up with a reform pact, because i was speaking to some people would say, who cares about the tory leader ? tory leader? >> labour should be worried about farage and i think they are actually, i think that's, that's that's even if, you know this poll today, labour only a point in front. but this doesn't mean anything if the right wing vote is split at the next election, we could end up with, yes, less popular labour, slightly more popular conservatives, but essentially the same result, couldn't we? absolutely. >> and i think that sort of what's happening is the as the gloss comes off the election victory in every sense in the memories of winning recede, is that labour mps, particularly in seats in the in what we used to call the red wall, i don't know if it's been restored. it is the red wall. once again are worried about reform. and, you know, people are saying that, you know, if you've got a if you if you've got reform in second place in your seat, you should be you should be really worried. there's a great story though, from the labour leadership contest in 1976. i'm determined to get in because in terms of what happens tomorrow, i wasn't born then. i just want to get absolutely oh, i was only michelle wasn't as well. i know as by far the oldest on the panelis as by far the oldest on the panel is an mp called james wellbeloved. it was in the, you know, photocopiers were not he.

absolutely. he took his ballot papen absolutely. he took his ballot paper, did three photocopies, put a cross by each of the three candidates. michael roy jenkins and jim callaghan, and sent each of them, one with a handwritten note saying just wanted you to know roy, etc. i voted for you. they compared notes. he got caught manuel hassassian list. you see how people get on tomorrow. >> but but on on the potential of a reform pact. i mean, do you think any of the leaders would go for that? potential leaders? >> i think that we really do need to recognise how people voted in their droves for reform. in my seat. i don't know about yours. if reform hadn't stood, i would have won the seat. and so it did change our political landscape dramatically because people were downright fed up. they were particularly fed up with illegal immigration, and the fact that there had been a lot of talking and not a lot of action, and therefore, on the policies that reform voters voted on, we really need to be very forthright on and regain the trust . now, what i think we the trust. now, what i think we need to get to a position of is a position where we saw in 2019 where ukip weren't standing in certain seats because they

recognised that actually the conservatives were the ones that could win. they were the ones that could deliver on the agenda that could deliver on the agenda that they agreed with, and they too trusted the party to go forward and do that. so we need to bring back some more credibility. >> well, and of course, the one thing nobody's talking about is who is going to bring challenge to a reform, because yes, they had this big surge of support, but some of the things that they were promising to end nhs waiting lists, for example, are obviously not possible now. they had no there was no threat that they were going to win the last election, but clearly they are competing for that next time. so do you think the tories and labour need to be much more cognisant of that threat and actually address what reform are saying? >> 100%? i mean, i think you're >>100%? i mean, i think you're absolutely right because nigel, you know, came into the race late. it wasn't even like they'd been six months of analysis of not going to win. but let's have a look at it. i mean, you know, literally there were three weeks. so i think there back of a packet for there. and there was a bit of pushing back on some of the things. but i think with reform above 20 and above huge amount of scrutiny and frankly, that's quite right because they are now a serious part of our politics. but also

just a quick mention for the liberals, although their their percentages isn't huge and the liberals as we know got through the got through the election in a wetsuit. david got it through by doing stunts. they're going to have to have a bit more scrutiny to indeed. >> well, we'll be continuing the discussion in a moment, but next we're going to move to on talking about young people, our labour failing, our children . labour failing, our children. well, they've reportedly ruled out a ban on smartphones in schools, despite the fact that many other countries in the west are putting bans in place. so how will we keep our children safe? stay tuned. you're watching dewbs& co with miriam cates only on gb. news

welcome back. it's 6:20 and you're watching dewbs& co with me . miriam cates standing in for me. miriam cates standing in for michelle dewberry and you've been getting in touch with your views via gb news forward slash your say and we've got some really interesting views . really interesting views. jonathan says about the

conservative leadership race we've just been talking about. i'd rather go for a beer with kemi or jenrick than cleverly seems to be a good measure of who should be a good leader. margie says we don't want continuity, we need someone with a fire in their belly , not a fire in their belly, not dreary. cleverly, it sounds like a kind of trumpian insult might catch on and mark, if cleverly gets in it shows the tories have learnt absolutely nothing. so not a lot of support for cleverly from our viewers, despite the fact he's now the front runner in parliament. so we'll be continuing the discussion. please carry on sending in your views about the topics that are coming up and still with me in the studio until seven. i've got my panel, former conservative cabinet minister michelle donelan and former labour adviser matthew laza. now next topic are labour failing our children? well, the labour party have reportedly ruled out a smartphone ban in schools , instead leaving it up schools, instead leaving it up to headteachers to decide the rules about phones in each specific school. now, while the department for education have said that it's still an option to legislate against phone use in schools, sources are saying

that starmer will leave it up to the individual schools now . this the individual schools now. this comes at the same time as the government hires a new comms chief from tiktok, a chinese owned social media app that's banned on government phones. and as a leading professor has said today, students aren't reading as much anymore because smartphones have reduced their attention span. so all in all, not a great outlook for our children. are we doing enough for them when it comes to the onune for them when it comes to the online world? now i'm going to turn to you first, michelle, because you've got some very useful experience being both a former education secretary and the culture secretary who took through the recent online safety act. so what do you think? are we doing enough to protect children? >> so i think this is the wrong decision by labour not to ban it in our schools, because we will end up with what we've got now, which is a bit of a patchwork of different approaches from different approaches from different schools and we know that the evidence shows that it is a huge distraction. it's common sense, isn't it, that if you're trying to learn at the same time as looking at your mobile phone, not as much information is going to get in, and therefore we need to be on the side of our teachers and our

schools and just make it easier and have a one size fits all system . and the rest of the system. and the rest of the world is doing this across europe, across canada, etc. loads of countries are either trialling it or doing it. so i think that we need to get with that movement. that's only part of the issue . the broader issue of the issue. the broader issue is social media in general, and the effects that that's been having on our children. so what the online safety act does is it creates a minimum floor. so everybody, no matter how engaged your parents are and let's not forget, they can't police people's phones all the time . people's phones all the time. absolutely. so what that does is it means that all illegal content goes for children and also harmful content as well. >> what surprises me, matthew , >> what surprises me, matthew, about this debate, and this is something that i worked on a lot in parliament, is that, you know, you would expect labour party politicians who traditionally are more in favour of banning things, legislating, protecting children, you know , protecting children, you know, much less libertarian in outlook, are not interested in this issue. >> well, i wouldn't i wouldn't say they're not interested. i

mean, i mean, what we what we're doing is let's just be clear, first of all, the james lyons who was the new the new head of strategic comms, he's been brought in who i've known for 25 years, and he was at the nhs for most of his career. and then, excuse me, at the sunday times and the and the daily mirror. so he's only been at tick tock for a year or two, and i don't think there's any link between the two. i mean, obviously the timing may not look great, but i think what's happening on with the department of education is they've made the decision to leave it to schools. and michelle says in terms of supporting school leaders and teachers on the front line, where we are by saying yes, if you want to ban phones in the classroom, you , you know, you classroom, you, you know, you have the department, you have the you have the mechanism behind you. but we're not doing is what we're often accused of is what we're often accused of is being nanny state and dictating from whitehall. >> but what that can do is put all the pressure and the onus on the teacher. whereas if you if you have a one size fits all policy, they can't come under pressure from parents, they can't come under pressure from students. they're just doing the same as every other school. and so in many ways, that actually supports and helps the teachers and it helps the parents who

arguably are crying out for this. the polling from ipso shows that 60% of the population want this ban, which is much higher than the global average. >> i mean , i think as you said, >> i mean, i think as you said, as you said in the introduction, labour's not ruled out a ban. i mean, if we if it becomes clear from the front line, from schools that they think that it needs to be a blanket ban so that every school is the same, there is a one size fits all policy, then that will happen. there's no it's not ruled out. it's just i think in the rush of the first 90 days, it's not there in terms of the list of things we're trying to ban, not just but it's not just the phonesin just but it's not just the phones in schools. >> as michelle said, you know, the fact that children are becoming addicted to social media, it's not just the content, some of which is absolutely appalling. but, you know, we've even had this news today that that social media is reducing kids concentration spans. and we all know that's true. the kind of the doom scrolling on twitter or the tiny, you know, short videos on tiktok. do destroy people's concentration span. 1 just don't understand why labour just aren't more up in arms about the fact that the big tech, so big capitalism, which traditionally labour do not like, are basically buying, robbing our

children's attention. >> i think. i think it is of concern to the labour party. i think it's frankly of concern to everybody, the, you know, the impact it has not just on children actually, but on all of us as we as we live in an increasingly online world. i don't think we've got the situation here, which you have in the states where the democratic party and except mr musk , you know, are close to a musk, you know, are close to a lot of other tech interests. you know, that kind of californian vibe. obviously, kamala harris was a californian senator. so i think we don't have i don't i don't think we need to worry that anybody is in is in hock to the tech interests, except that tiktok is clearly a geopolitical risk as well as, you know, making our children. >> i don't think we'll be putting it back on government phones because james is there. >> i mean, i don't know, but it's surely it makes it less likely that the government will regulate against tiktok. no, i think i mean, i think that he won't be involved in, in those discussions. i mean, his job is on strategic comms. it's not a policy job, and it's certainly not in the relevant in the relevant department. so i mean,

you know, i mean, as i say, i've known james for a long time and he will i mean, he's there with his is born and made a journalist hat on. that's why he's been brought in because he's been brought in because he's a former political editor. i actually think that's a sensible appointment because he has got a long track record, not just in the nhs, but for newspapers too. >> and he understands social media and governments, if they're going to get their message out and communicate with people, need to use the tools and the technology that everybody else is using too. and that's the world we live in. we can't pretend that we live in a different world. >> michelle, you brought forward the online safety act, which must have been one of the longest pieces of legislation, both in terms of the length of the document, but also how long it took to come come through. do you think it goes far enough? will children actually see a difference once it's fully enacted? >> yeah, absolutely. so what i did was basically rewrite it by strengthening it to protect children, which people said wasn't possible. but it was. so now the age at which children can access social media without parental consent actually has to be enforced, whereas before it wasn't. so that's 13. and be enforced, whereas before it wasn't. so that's13. and i do wasn't. so that's 13. and i do think we should have a conversation in this country over whether 13 is right, because it is quite an arbitrary age, but it's a good starting position to at least enforce

that, because we know that kids as young as seven are on some of these social media accounts without their parents knowing. also, the executives from social media companies could even face jail time if they not only break the law but then evade the regulator too . and at the same regulator too. and at the same time, what i did was made sure that we protected free speech because originally the bill was going too far. the other way in relation to adults, when the reality is, i think that we should have more choice over the content that we see and what we do on our social media accounts. and it shouldn't be the government deciding what we should or shouldn't do . if it's should or shouldn't do. if it's legal, then it should be our decision. as adults . decision. as adults. >> but matthew, that one role that i think both people on the left and right would believe that government does have, which isn't interfering in people's lives, is protecting people from big vested interests, whether that's big tech, big tobacco. isn't there a role for government to recognise that big tech is having a huge influence on our lives? >> i think government does recognise that. and i think i mean, as you say, it was the gestation period of the of the

bill was significant as well as a half years. absolutely. i mean, you know, and it took there were obviously internal arguments within the tory party about you know, from the libertarian wing versus etc. i think you know, to be fair to michelle, a bit of cross—party consensus. we've got this new structure in place, as you say, it's important that the age limit is enforced and it's not just a tick box where anybody can just pretend that they are there, they're of the right age. you know, we need to see how it works. if it doesn't work, if we need more legislation, if we need more legislation, if we need to hold those tech bosses to account even more, even more than the law that's just been put in place, then let's do that. and i think it's really important that we don't get that, that we send a message to the tech companies that nobody is above both the law and doing the right thing. >> and we're in this implementation period. so it does feel frustrating because if you go on now, you'll be like, it's not changed, but that's because it's being implemented. so we do need to be careful that we don't rush to do the next thing before that is actually embedded. but let's remember that this is the most comprehensive piece of legislation in the world. so what we also need to be doing is going out and encouraging other countries to follow suit, because that continues to hold the tech companies to account

and changes their behaviour globally. >> i think the reality is, though, that we started the online safety act process ahead of the rest of the world, and now we're falling behind. and the question that i have is , why the question that i have is, why don't people see this as just another product that hasn't been tested on children? it's not safe for children. the us surgeon general said that if this was a drug, it would be withdrawn straight away because it's not safe for children. so i think there will be a lot of questions answered asked in a few years time . anyway, coming few years time. anyway, coming up, do do get in touch with your views on that. i know it's a very interesting topic, especially if you're a parent of teenagers. let us know what you think. but coming up, a report says that britain is set to experience the worst exodus of millionaires anywhere in the world, and rachel reeves, the chancellor is under pressure to deliver another blow to the back pockets of our pensioners. so do labour have a handle on our finances? that's next. you're watching dewbs& co with miriam cates only on gb

>> i'm christopher hope and i'm

gloria de piero bringing you pmqs live here on gb news. whenever parliament is in session on a wednesday at midday, we'll bring you live coverage of prime ministers questions. we'll be asking our viewers and listeners to submit the questions that they would like to put to the prime minister, and we'll put that to our panel of top politicians in our panel of top politicians in our westminster studio. >> that's pmqs live here on gb news , britain's news channel . news, britain's news channel. >> welcome back to dewbs& co with me, miriam cates. i'm standing for in michelle dewberry tonight and joining me until 7:00 pm. i've got my panel until 7:00 pm. i've got my panel, which is former conservative cabinet minister michelle donelan and former labour adviser matthew lazar . labour adviser matthew lazar. and you've been getting in touch with some of your views. we've just been talking about children and technology, and michelle says not michelle, who's here in the studio. i don't think jaw—jaw michelle dewberry unless she's been on her phone while

she's been on her phone while she's been on her phone while she's been here. maybe michelle's texting dangerous for kids. that might be so, but you can't close the stable door once the horse has bolted. banning things is just government overreach. well, that's certainly one point of view. but on the other hand, we have banned things like alcohol and tobacco after they've been invented. so is this another case? phones should be put in lockers when children arrive at school. adrian says good idea. and brian says they should ban smartphones in the house of commons. we see mps on their phones when they should be paying phones when they should be paying attention to the debates. i think that's probably true, but i would just speaking up for mps just for a second to speak in a debate. you sometimes have to sit there for six hours to be allowed to speak. and actually, if mps couldn't write notes for their speech, communicate with their speech, communicate with their staff, read their emails at the same time, you'd probably get even fewer mps sitting on those benches. so i think it's a very good point. but on the other hand, things have changed. you don't pass notes around the house of commons anymore. you communicate with people via whatsapp. so difficult. one and heather says children are going to school in nappies and can't

talk properly, but they know how to use a smartphone or tablet. very good point. we saw last year that lots of kids are turning up in school not knowing how to use a book, and trying to swipe on the pages so difficult time for kids growing up and parents speaking as a parent now moving on. are the wealthiest people in britain fleeing our country because of high taxes? well, an analysis by the adam smith institute claims that britain is set to experience the worst exodus of millionaires anywhere in the world. and that's including comparing ourselves to germany, france and italy, who are all predicted to grow their share of millionaires. maybe people are moving from britain to the south of france. it comes as chancellor rachel reeves is being pressured to cut free prescriptions for those aged between 60 and 65 years old, with reports that the measure could raise up to £6 billion for the treasury. another blow to pensioners. then, as we look ahead to the long awaited budget, do labour have a handle on our finances? matthew? is the budget just taking too long to arrive? >> so i think the answer to that

is yes. i agree with the criticism from quite a lot of wise labour people who've said that the it was partly rishi's timing of the election. by having an election in july, it made it quite difficult. you can't really do a budget in the middle of august. so, you know, traditionally when governments, when elections are in the spring or the autumn, you then is kind of when you naturally have a budget anyway, but nonetheless pushing it to the end of october is pushing it. and i think that's allowed a vacuum to be created, which is why you've seen these stories. i mean, this particular survey is from the adam smith institute, a right leaning, a particularly right leaning, a particularly right leaning free market. think tank, you know, based on some research from sort of private wealth managers. so i take that with a pinch of salt. so let's, let's wait and see what happens, what happensin wait and see what happens, what happens in the budget. but i would have done the budget earlier if i'd been in charge. >> indeed. well we'll be talking about that a little bit more in about that a little bit more in a minute. but also coming up, a deported albanian criminal is going to be able to get back into the uk thanks to the european convention of human rights. so lots more to come. but just moving back to this budget topic, michel labour seem to want to get rid of

millionaires. they seem to have a war on the wealthiest. do you think this is damaging the economy? >> well, i think there's talk of a vacuum. 1 think labour have actually filled that vacuum with scaremongering. and that's why we're seeing millionaires potentially thinking about or planning to leave the country because they're terrified of what on earth is going to come in this budget. and it's not just millionaires. we're going to see a brain drain. i really believe that if we create an environment that is stifling innovation , but also aspiration, innovation, but also aspiration, why should we not be a nation that backs wealth creators? at the end of the day, wealth creators are the employers. they're the people that generate more money for our economy to actually function. and to grow. so i think this is very worrying. and this story about pensioners, what will that be? that will be a double smack in the for face pensioners then. >> but but surely, i mean, retirement age is 67 now. so people aged 60 to 65 are working. they've probably got higher incomes than, let's say, people in their 20s. they won't be paying mortgages probably. they certainly won't be paying student loans. why should people

in their 20s and 30s have to pay a prescription charge, and people in their 60s? >> not so. i think this is also about timing. so the government have just cut the winter fuel allowance. we've been navigating through a cost of living crisis, where energy bills have been soaring and at the end of the day, the elderly people are less likely to be able to be in a position to work. and 60 plus you may have more ailments and concerns and considerations and not be in a position to work. or you might be very much working, but i think it's a cruel thing to do to add this on now. and we as a government, when we were in, we reviewed this and we looked at the evidence and we said, no, we're not going to do this because this is not fair that prescription charges have already gone up to £9.90. that's already gone up to £9.90. that's a sizeable sum to be adding to people's bills. >> matthew, do you think that labour are targeting pensioners because they're the least likely group to vote labour? >> no, i don't think that. i think they i think that the reason the winter fuel allowance was done because and it may have been a political mistake, probably it was a political mistake was because on paper and this this is this proposal to equalise the pension age and the

prescription age comes from a think tank, not from the labour party , not from the government. party, not from the government. a think tank called the intergenerational foundation. and people like them would say that there has been a big imbalance over the last 20 years with things like the triple lock, even in an age of austerity. pensioners did did proportionately better than younger people and people of working age as well as, you know, young people in general. and so i think that that's the reason that they're putting it forward. it's not going to happen. it might have happened if you hadn't done the winter fuel allowance. you might have had a kind of phased over ten years. you know, picking up. but it's not going to happen politically. and i think the government has made a political mistake because i was sat on a bus the other day where two actually rather rather smart pensioners were on their way to chelsea to do a bit of shopping. we're chatting to them and they were saying, oh, we're using our bus passes now, but they're going on october the 28th. so i say to labour colleagues, you've got people who, you know, who actually think their bus passes are about to be taken away. and that was just an idea floated on the fringes. >> i don't think it's a political mistake as much as

just a moral mistake to take away that winter fuel allowance. it's downright cruel, isn't it? really? >> but isn't the biggest economic problem facing this country is that we cannot afford our age related spending commitments. we can't afford pensions. no way. we've got £2 trillion deficit in public sector pensions. we are going to have to be honest with people. we can't afford pensions , health we can't afford pensions, health care forever. so surely the conservatives being, you know, fiscally responsible should be saying, actually, yeah, we do need to means test these things. >> but what we should be doing is examining some of the causes of that. look at the birth rate is so low. why is it so low? let's review that. let's see how we can try and change that. >> but even if we did that today, you've got even if suddenly, magically, you've got 20 year lag before those people. >> but that's why we've introduced auto enrolment. that's why more people nowadays have private pensions than they used to as well. and we need to look at all of that. and i'm not denying the problems that we're storing up. but at the same time, we can't be allowing our pensioners to freeze to death because of this problem that we've got down the road. we need to be trying to, well, the poorest pensioners will still get will still. it's quite disingenuous, isn't it, because it's only the pension credits, people that are eligible for pension credits and those that

are just above can be very much impoverished. i mean, i will get nothing. >> i wish we had a more sophisticated. i wish we had sophisticated. iwish we had a more sophisticated government system where things like, you know, where people you had one pass to get their free prescriptions and to get their bus pass, you know, like, you know, countries like estonia, where 99.9% of government, of interaction with government services can be done online. and instead the problem was , is they instead the problem was, is they were literally faced with, how do we do this? well, you've only got one lever. either you give it to everybody or you give it to people on pension credit and nobody else. and that's what they did. and that is unfortunate for people on the cusp and that probably is a political moral, even if you support it in theory, because we do have to reduce our welfare budget somehow. >> but it appears cruel to target pensioners, some of whom have extremely low incomes. as michelle says. at the same time, it's giving big pay rises to relatively well paid public sector workers, who also have brilliant pensions. >> well, some of those public sector workers are not well paid. i mean, obviously, you know, the junior doctors would argue that whilst their junior doctors are not well paid, they go on to greater things. but obviously the general public sector pay a fixed for the nhs includes the cleaners , the includes the cleaners, the porters, you know, lots of

people who are on frankly just above the minimum wage. i mean, you know, we talked about aspiration . absolutely. i agree aspiration. absolutely. i agree that we need to we need to give back wealth creation. but of course we saw tax thresholds freezed and the highest tax burden in in 6070 years under the tories. so i think it's a bit rich. >> i mean that is true entrepreneurs and backing aspiration. and also the problem with what happened under government last time was actually people on middle incomes are not higher tax than they've ever been. it's the people in the top 25% who are now crippled by high tax rates, and nobody's going to feel sorry for them. but on the other hand, they are the people creating wealth. and the conservatives did that, creating jobs, etc. but what we're talking about now is this government going even further, and the speculation around this, that's speculation. >> but some of that speculation has been fuelled directly by rachel reeves and keir starmer saying, you know , you've got to saying, you know, you've got to watch out for negative things coming. they've been preparing the ground, trying to manage expectations that's coming from them , and that speculation is them, and that speculation is actually damaging growth because there are businesses now that are not investing because they're sitting on their hands

waiting to see what's going to happenin waiting to see what's going to happen in this budget. there's people actively planning to potentially leave the country, as this poll shows, that's not going to be good for anyone. it's not going to be good for our state. you mentioned the nhs. the nhs is funded by taxpayers, the and the top 1% pay taxpayers, the and the top 1% pay 29% of the overall tax burden. >> i mean, i mean, i appreciate you saying that you're worried labour may go further, but let's remind ourselves that the number of people paying higher rate tax, 1 think, trebled under the 14 years of the tory government because people were pushed by the freezing or they're not they're not fully uprating at various points over those 14 years of those tax thresholds, which are crucial. so i think, i mean, i think we should have had the budget quicker. i think that speculation could have been damped down. some of the speculation may or may not have come from the treasury, but a lot of the speculation in these ideas are from think tanks, because of course, when there's a new government, anybody who wants to get something puts in a report. so these people have chipped it in because they think now is the moment to influence. >> i mean, but that gap is

having a significant impact, not only because people perceive the government to be talking down britain and making business confidence lower, but also there's a report today in the telegraph of people taking out their pension lump sums because they're worried that they're going to be taxed more and actually losing big proportion of their pension. i mean, this speculation is really unhelpful. >> yeah. i mean, look, people shouldn't, you know, i think everybody should wait. >> i should say the wait is unhelpful. yeah. >> i think the wait is unhelpful because you're always going to get speculation from lots of different sources. but i think that what you're going to see is a more positive message over the last couple of weeks. got the investment summit on monday, which is about bringing investment and jobs to britain. and then you've got the budget two weeks later. so hopefully the vacuum will be created. and it was a mistake. and all governments make mistakes in the early days and waiting was, in my view, a mistake. >> but we have got the investment summit on monday, but it's my understanding we haven't got an investment minister yet and they're going to be appointed over the weekend. so it doesn't really seem to me like a government that's focused on being an expert. are they are they really focused on growth? is that what they're going for? because it's absolutely counterproductive to everything of everything, of everything the government's done. >> and i think you'll see that on monday. and i hope it's a

good name. >> it looks like growth. it looks like redistribution really to me. >> well, no, i mean, because you can't look, i mean, labour is acutely aware that you can't have a thriving nhs. you can't have a thriving nhs. you can't have thriving public services unless you have a thriving economy and a thriving private sector. and, you know, the government is committed to getting it back on a growth. and that's why we've done things like unblocking the planning regulation in just 90 days, which the tories didn't do. you know, liz tried it then you got rid of it. you know, it's a you know, there are lots of things that won't show immediate benefits because obviously planning takes time to feed through. but over time we'll do that. i think the government needs to be aware that it needs to make sure headline are things on growth, like people not thinking they've got to pull their pension pots out, but the additional regulation that's going to be announced this week that will hit businesses as well. >> we need to create an environment that is hospitable to growth, which includes regulation, being in the right place as well, doesn't it? >> absolutely. and we don't believe in regulation for regulation. say the package you're talking about is about workers, rights that workers, workers rights that angela's together. and angela's put together. and that's actually, you know, some people on the left think that's been watered down too much. so i think actually the balance will be about right, which giving be about right, which is giving workers a fair deal. but ensuring that doesn't get in the way of growth. >> well, we haven't got too to

long wait for that budget. i'm sure there'll be lots more debates to come. we've also got lots more debate to come. so coming up as a deported albanian criminal is able to get back into the uk thanks to the european convention of human rights, we're asking, is it time that we leave the echr? please let me know your thoughts. this is dewbs& co with me miriam cates only on gb

welcome back to dewbs& co with me. miriam cates standing in for michelle dewberry tonight and i've still got my panel with me until 7 pm. former conservative cabinet minister michelle donelan and former labour advisor matthew laza. and you've been sending in your views about the economy, about what labour are going to do in the budget. and sylvia says, if i was a millionaire, i would leave this country tomorrow. but philip said, i'm not a millionaire, but i am planning to leave when i retire within the next decade.

not a brilliant vote of confidence. now an albanian criminal who sneaked back into britain after being deported has won the right to stay here under the european convention on human rights. ardit bannau was freed six months into a two and a half year jail sentence for burglary and deported as part of a prisoner transfer agreement with albania, but he then came back to britain to be with his lithuanian girlfriend. and now he's staying here as he has a right to family life under article eight of the echr. and this comes as another albanian burglar is seen flaunting a ferrari on instagram after being deported twice. so is it time to leave the echr? we asked people of hull earlier today. >> we came out with brexit so that we could rule ourselves and we've been told what to do by you know, the eu. so no, we come out of it completely human, right and like people safety is the first. >> i think it's anything to do

with them. and we need to do our own laws, our own rights , and own laws, our own rights, and not follow the europeans . not follow the europeans. >> so matthew, coming to you first. is the echr the problem here? >> no , i made a documentary >> no, i made a documentary which wasn't a great ratings success as the bbc with andrew neil called rights gone wrong question mark. we'll all watch it now. absolutely. i hope it's available on youtube. it was up against the chelsea match, so it didn't do too well. and we start we actually literally started the documentary with andrew neil stroking blofeld style a stuffed cat because theresa may had said as home secretary that the judges are taking into account whether or not a cat, whether or not somebody's cat meant that they couldn't, their ownership of a cat meant they couldn't. they couldn't be deported. it's not the laws, it's the implementation of them and the conservatives, even those who want to get rid of the echr. so there'd be a british bill of rights . it will have something rights. it will have something similar in it. it will be appued similar in it. it will be applied in the same way. this case looks pretty. it looks like the judges made the wrong decision. from what i can see. but if the judges keep making it, no matter whether it comes from strasbourg or westminster, it's the decisions made in the

court that are the issue. >> but michelle isn't the problem that the echr, unlike law passed in this country, is actually a moving feast that judge judges can just change how they interpret it. as the years go on. that's not democratic, is it? yeah. >> and this case is absolutely flabbergasting. this individual, according to what i've read, actually applied for the right to be able to stay after having a child. so they basically gamed the system. yeah. and we can't have that going on because that allows for those loopholes and those mechanisms for people to get around it. so we do, i believe, need to leave the echr. now, i've always said it was the last resort. 1 think we're at last resort. 1 think we're at last resort. 1 think we're at last resort territory and the british public are really angry and disappointed about the way that we have allowed those figures for illegal immigrants to creep and creep and creep up, and now we need to act. it's not and now we need to act. it's not a silver bullet. it needs to be along with other measures. but it's along with other measures. but wsfime along with other measures. but it's time to act. >> matthew, doesn't this show the problem with human rights law that at the end of the day, you're always going to get come up against someone's right competing with someone else's? and why should a judge get to decide that? >> well, actually, i was just

thinking that those vox pops from hull, 1 actually stood in hull market with the guy who had been convicted for a very unpleasant crime, and he wasn't a particularly nice chap who had taken the government to strasbourg and to the echr to get votes for prisoners and of course, cross—party agreement . course, cross—party agreement. we've never done it so the judges can say what they like. governments ultimately are in charge, and i think the echr has become a bit of an excuse for the government not doing things like tackling the small boats crisis over the last year. >> i think it needs to be part of a suite of measures, but the reality is that this is the hot topic out there. this is the thing that is motivating people and concerning people on all of our streets across the united kingdom. therefore, we should leave no stone unturned in trying to fix it. >> i think we need to. i think we need to sort the problem out. i don't think the echr is what's standing in the way of sorting the problem of the small boats crisis out, which obviously labour inherited because those boats were not stopped. >> they've been going up under labour's watch. >> indeed, the weather. >> indeed, the weather. >> we're not coming to the weather yet, but i think i mean, i think the echr has outlived its stay. but on the other hand, our own domestic human rights and equalities are such a mess that if we left the echr we'd have serious issues about free

speech, freedom of religion . so speech, freedom of religion. so a lot of thinking for the next conservative leader to do and hopefully for the prime minister anyway, it's been a fantastic show, really interesting debate. thank you so much to both of my panellists for joining me. and thank you so much for watching and sending in your views. lots more politics to come over the next few weeks. you've been watching dewbs& co with me miriam cates on gb news. good night . night. >> we'll see a cold snap which will quickly develop into a warm front. boxt boiler repairs sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good evening . here's your >> good evening. here's your latest gb news. weather update coming to you from the met office. looking ahead. and by thursday things are looking largely dry but quite a bit colder than of late. for the time being though, still plenty of wet weather around. low pressure dominating the story across the uk. it's this low pressure that has brought all the heavy, thundery showers many

of us have seen through today , of us have seen through today, and there will be some further showers as we go through the next few hours across england and wales, but many of them clearing away towards the east overnight. some persistent rain continuing though across parts of northern england and eastern scotland , so staying pretty scotland, so staying pretty soggy here with quite a bit of cloud around. temperatures won't drop a huge amount, especially in the towns and cities, many places holding up in double figures . there will be generally figures. there will be generally fewer showers around tomorrow , fewer showers around tomorrow, but there will be some. in fact, even from the start, across far southern parts of england, a few showers, quite likely, perhaps a little bit drier across central southern parts of wales and the midlands for a time. but further north northern england . plenty north northern england. plenty of wet weather around, some outbreaks of rain, which could be quite heavy, and more persistent. rain affecting eastern parts of scotland. a very soggy start to the day here as we go through the day, the rain across parts of scotland and northern england will continue for a time, but it should start to break up as we go through into the afternoon and early evening . elsewhere, and early evening. elsewhere, a scattering of showers around not

as many as we've seen through today, and they're not looking quite as intense . less likely to quite as intense. less likely to have the odd rumble of thunder, but still some heavy ones possible. and temperatures in the north starting to drop down as we get a northerly wind making its way across the country. that northerly wind then will push its way southwards across pretty much the whole of the country. as we go through thursday. and so that means it is going to be a chillier day , but much fewer chillier day, but much fewer showers around. in fact, it's looking largely dry. yes, some showers around coastal parts, but many places having a dry day on thursday and sticking with that drier theme until the weekend. by by. >> a nice bright morning will generate a lovely warm day right through to the evening. boxt sponsoi's sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening . live with me

>> good evening. live with me nigel farage tonight. tom tugendhat is out of the tory leadership race. who is going to make the last two? i'll give you my prediction as we find out that 1 in 100 in the uk my prediction as we find out that1 in 100 in the uk are now that 1 in 100 in the uk are now estimated to be illegal migrants, the highest in europe , migrants, the highest in europe, and three former sas soldiers write a letter devastating letter to the times today saying because of the european convention on human rights, they fear the future recruitment for the force. all of that coming up in just a moment. first, let's get the news with lewis mckenzie . get the news with lewis mckenzie. >> thank you very much, nigel. good evening. it's 7:00. i'm lewis mckenzie here in the gb newsroom. james cleverly has overtaken robert jenrick to the top spot in the latest round of voting to be the next leader of the conservative party . cleverly the conservative party. cleverly leads the pack with 39 votes. robert jenrick second with 31. and kemi badenoch third on 30.

tom tugendhat has now