afternoon . the director tomorrow afternoon. the director general of mi5 has warned that isis and al—qaeda are on the rise again, with an increased terror risk linked to the conflict in the middle east. in a stark warning at the counter—terrorism operations centre, ken mcmullen revealed that iran has been linked to at least 20 deadly plots in the uk over the past two years. he says both groups are attempting to export terror. highlighting the recent deadly attacks in moscow as brutal demonstration of what isis are still capable of. as the conflict between israel and iran intensifies. mi5 is on high alert for potential domestic repercussions . keir starmer is repercussions. keir starmer is set for a crucial talks in berlin, joining leaders from the us , france and germany this us, france and germany this saturday. the meeting will focus

on the ongoing war in ukraine and the escalating situation in the middle east. it comes as tensions rise in lebanon, prompting urgent diplomatic efforts among so—called quad nations. efforts among so—called quad nafions.the efforts among so—called quad nations. the prime minister's spokesperson says the meeting is highlights for the uk's commitment to tackling international issues, alongside its allies . now, water companies its allies. now, water companies in england and wales have been ordered to return more than £157 million to customers for failing to meet crucial targets on pollution and interruptions to supplies. ofwat has demanded that the money comes off bills for households and businesses from next year. it follows a previous order to repay £114 million from last year. previous order to repay £114 million from last year . the uk million from last year. the uk population has seen its largest annual increase in size since 1971. the for office national statistics estimates that the

total population grew by 1% in just a year , reaching 68.3 just a year, reaching 68.3 million by mid 2023, covering england, scotland , wales and england, scotland, wales and northern ireland. the ons says migration was the main factor behind the latest rise, as deaths exceeded births by around 16,300. in the same period . and 16,300. in the same period. and finally, as hurricane milton makes its way towards florida, governor ron desantis says if you stay, you will die. satellite images show the storm churning through the gulf of mexico with winds almost reaching 180 miles. an hour. forecasts are warning of 8 to 12 foot storm surges. the highest ever for the region. and of course , widespread flooding. it course, widespread flooding. it comes just two weeks after hurricane helene claimed over 200 lives in the southern eastern parts of the united states . well, those are your states. well, those are your

latest gb news headlines. i'm lewis mckenzie. more from me in an hour's time. but now it's back to nigel for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com. >> forward slash alerts . >> forward slash alerts. >> forward slash alerts. >> good evening. and said a few years ago, i bet you'd never even heard of the 1922 committee, which of course is the committee of conservative members of parliament. but given that the party is about to elect its sixth leader, they're back, of course, in the news today and its chairman , bob blackman, read its chairman, bob blackman, read out the scores on the doors in the middle of this afternoon as to who was to be eliminated from the conservative leadership race and declare the result of the third ballot in the leadership contest. >> 120 votes were cast, and the votes for each candidate were as

follows. kemi badenoch, 30. james cleverly 39. robert jenrick, 31. and tom tugendhat , jenrick, 31. and tom tugendhat, 20. so as a result of that ballot, tom tugendhat is eliminated from the contest . eliminated from the contest. >> so, as predicted, tom tugendhat is out. and as i said to you last week when i sat and watched very, very carefully the speeches that they all gave at the conservative party conference, it was clear to me that cleverly was the one that impressed. i'm not talking policy. i'm talking about looking like somebody who actually was in command and cleverly was miles better than the other. the big disappointment for those on the centre right of the conservative party, i think, to be honest , party, i think, to be honest, was the performance of jenrick. you know, if you go out and speak without notes and wander around the stage, you have to have the charisma to back it up. and frankly, i don't think that jenrick had that and that's why his vote is down and badenoch

kind of is up a little bit. but holds steady. the next round of voting is tomorrow . who makes voting is tomorrow. who makes the last two.7 well, voting is tomorrow. who makes the last two? well, i'll tell you cleverly clearly makes the last two. and in fact you would expect in policy and positioning terms him to get many of the tugendhat votes. so who makes it through between jenrick on 31 and badenoch on 40? here is my guess. my guess is that the cleverly camp and the conservative establishment will lend a few votes to kemi badenoch, because they don't want jenrick, because jenrick wants to do things like leave the echr and that would never do. so that's my prediction. that's what will happen. it will be cleverly versus badenoch. that's my view. keen to know from you. who do you think makes the last two? and oh, by the way, do you actually care? please email farage @gbnews .com. i'm joined in tonight's endeavour by sir george howarth, former labour member of parliament and junior minister under tony blair, and lord monckton, hereditary peer and

former conservative political adviser . so, lord monckton, who adviser. so, lord monckton, who do you think makes the last two? >> i think you've got it absolutely right. and after all, do you really want jenrick to go through , given that i think he's through, given that i think he's asked for your retirement hasn't he? he has. >> i mean, fat chance of that. i'd say . i'd say. >> so i think it's generic that's going to get the retirement. and i think the other two will go through and i think it probably will be cleverly that gets it. i agree with you as to the speeches that the party conference, he was clearly the man who had the presence of a potential prime minister . and the others remind minister. and the others remind me of a ballot in the labour party a few years ago where there were two candidates, michael foot and ted short, and the ballot paper, in a wonderful cartoon in the spectator, which just said foot short, one labour mp saying to the other neither of them has the stature to do this. >> well, what george will remember those days. >> of course i do. i wasn't an mp at the time, but i was very

politically active. >> yet. i mean, to answer your question, which two? i think you probably your assessment is right. it'll be badenoch and cleverly whichever way round . cleverly whichever way round. and i think the problem is that whichever of them, even if it had been robert jenrick the problem, the conservative party have got is that they don't really know where they want to be. they don't know whether they're going to be further to they're going to be further to the right or a bit towards the centre . centre. >> and they're very divided. they're very divided in parliament. they are. >> and i've always been shocked . >> and i've always been shocked. you know, the labour party has always had a reputation for falling out with each other. and sometimes we do. but privately when you talk to some of the tory mps, certainly in the last parliament, the divisions between them was visceral and

vicious, all at the same time. and i'm not sure that's gone away. >> and that's, of course, why reform came through , because a reform came through, because a huge wing of the tory party simply wasn't represented by anyone. >> and voters deserve to know what they're voting for. exactly. and i think that's the point, isn't it? you know, now, moving on from that, because it probably doesn't matter that much really. moving on from that. i mean, the story, george, that. i mean, the story, george, that you know, that we know of 1 in 100 of the uk population are here illegally, which is far more than france or germany or italy, despite all the things that we're told. pretty sure. i mean, david blunkett, i mean, go back 20 years. but david blunkett, as home secretary, said, well, how can i tell how many people are here illegally? it may even be more than this. it's pretty shocking, isn't it? >> i mean, it's a worry and you know, any country has to have control of its borders if it's going to have control over what happens to all the public

services, for example. yes. but i think the problem that we've got now is the same problem as the previous government had, and thatis the previous government had, and that is people who are crossing the channel mostly illegally and in fact , in all cases illegally. in fact, in all cases illegally. and how do you get a grip on that? and it's early days for this government, but i think they're going to head for cooperation between other european states on a bilateral bafis european states on a bilateral basis , because we're no longer basis, because we're no longer in the eu. if the if that has to be the key to it, if the eu allow that. well, i, i don't see any reason why they wouldn't because although there are parts of the eu that would like, you know, quite happy with levels of immigration, as long as it's not coming to them quite other parts, france, germany and others have really got worries about it. and there is on their part, an imperative for

cooperation if you're going to get on top of it. but i would argue, george, that all the while people are coming across the mediterranean in large numbers. >> that's a far bigger concern to them than those that transit through their countries and come to britain. >> well, it is, but i mean, it's a the routes are different, for example. so, you know, people have got to go say from north africa, right across europe to get to france so they can cross the channel. and if we control, if we can control, first of all, the routes to get to the channel. and secondly, if we can get control over who what happensin get control over who what happens in the channel and, you know, the border force proposals that the government have got hopefully will help to do that . hopefully will help to do that. then you've got a chance of tackling it at the moment, you know, as the last government found out, you can have all of the rhetoric in the world. but if it doesn't work, then you

need to rethink it. >> i mean, george puts the case for what labour are trying to do. yeah, i rather think christopher , what happened with christopher, what happened with the last government was they realised this issue was going right up the agenda. yeah. and the reason is not just numbers. the reason is a sense of unfairness. you know, how is it that our son and daughter can't get on the social housing list ? get on the social housing list? why is it our rents are going through the roof? how is it we can't get a gp appointment? how is it these people get four star hotels? i think it was the unfairness of it. but isn't what really isn't the reason really ? really isn't the reason really? when you think about all the promises that boris johnson made, rishi sunak sort of staking his premiership on stopping the boats isn't the real reason that unless you deport people who come illegally , deport people who come illegally, they're going to keep coming. >> you have to do that. you also have to send the right signals. margaret thatcher had this problem very early in her premiership, and she then got a backbencher to ask her a question. what are you going to do about illegal immigration?

and she stood up and went to the despatch box and said, if you're thinking of coming to this country illegally, then you can think again. we now have in place the toughest regime for handung place the toughest regime for handling those of you who come here illegally, you will be arrested. you will be detained. you will be sent straight back where you came from. and that will be that. and they stopped coming. the fact that you send a signal is good, but the signal that was sent by the last conservative government, a great friend of yours and mine, i won't say who was approached. he has a large country house in taunton, and he was approached by the home office. and they said, we'd like you to lend us your house for seven years, and we'll give you £1 million if you'll do that , and we're going you'll do that, and we're going to put illegal migrants into it. and can you imagine if you're some albanian, you get put into the swankiest house in the west country. the first thing you do is get on the phone to your mates, say, you've got to come to britain. this is paved with gold. >> there is some truth in that andifs

>> there is some truth in that and it's this kind of utter stupidity on the part of the home office, which is just about the worst of all the government departments. well, what is interesting, george, to me is if you go back, i mentioned, i mentioned blunkett, actually, blair and blunkett were really tough on this. yes, we're really tough on this. yes, we're really tough on this and that. labour government were deporting illegals in very, very big numbers and yet don't appear to have the power to do it now. and i'm going to put it to you that it's the creeping power of the european court of human rights in strasbourg that has caused this problem. >> i personally, i, i don't think it's the problem that some people make out . and i was people make out. and i was involved as a home office minister in introducing that legislation, and we introduced it for very good reasons. it was repatriating european law into engush repatriating european law into english law so that people could access it more easily. now , with access it more easily. now, with the passage of time, you need to review everything. but i think

there's possibility that, for example, and i'm not advocating this, but i think there needs to be the potential for a derogation, for example, on certain aspects of it. but there has to be negotiated. you can't just unilaterally declare it. >> interesting , very, very >> interesting, very, very interesting that we also have to deal with the french. we finish up this segment talking about echr derogations and how we deal with it. and after the break, i'm going to be joined by three men who've given the country great service in the sas. and i was quite shocked to pick up the times newspaper first thing this morning and see a letter from all three of them. most unusual for those that have served in the sas to break cover and talk about it. but they have and their worry. their worry also is their worry. their worry also is the european convention of human rights being written into british law. what it means, what it means for court cases that can go back for many , many can go back for many, many years, which they see as

persecution of former sas soldiers and what that could mean for future recruitment our crack regiment.

i said to you, who is going to make the last two in the tory leadership race? and does it matter? helen says it will not matter? helen says it will not matter who leaves. they've 120 liberals sitting behind them. no change, no lessons learned. they're not all liberals, but many of them are. laura says it doesn't matter. whoever becomes the next conservative leader, they are a spent force. well, there you are. there's some pessimism. and david says, i guess cleverly is the best one from a reform standpoint is he is just more of the same from a defunct tory party and will offer no threat of a revival. well, we will see. now, i picked up my times newspaper this morning and was quite surprised to see a letter from three gentlemen that says, 30 years after being the command team of 22 sas, we are setting aside

reservations about discussing our service because the individuals we led then are gravely threatened today. a very unusual thing for us to see. and i'm joined by these gentlemen here in the studio today. on my left is jamie lowther—pinkerton, after service with the irish guards, served with the sas in the first gulf war. the balkans, and went on to become private secretary to the duke and duchess of cambridge. i'm joined also on my left by george simm, former regimental sergeant major, and i'm joined on my right by aldwyn white, retired sas commander , who went on to sas commander, who went on to receive a commission from the sultan of oman. gentlemen, i'll go by, go through one by one. now, we've obviously discussed on this programme before the legacy act , those from northern legacy act, those from northern ireland up to 50 years ago that can be prosecuted. there has been some debate about what the sas may or may not have done in

afghanistan, and, you know, we all know there are some basic rules of warfare that have to be obeyed. we think , perhaps, of obeyed. we think, perhaps, of how japanese or german forces treated british soldiers in world war ii. and we know there are rules there somewhere. interesting folks at home that despite this letter, the bbc have not had these gentlemen on today. and, jamie, we'll start with you , please. what is the with you, please. what is the nub of this problem? >> i think i think the reason that we wrote the letter is because and it pertains specifically to our soldiers. 30 years ago, the ones we commanded. and we're, you know, we're not entering any other debate on that . the reason debate on that. the reason really is responsibility. and you know, between the three of us, we sent these fellows into into difficult circumstances. and they did their to job the best of their ability. and actually, at the time that was

found to be so that they had acted lawfully. but ever since they have been hounded. and it's not so much that this will lead to a prosecution. it won't. what it is, it's the process which is, you know, some people have been 2 or 3 decades being chased . been 2 or 3 decades being chased. chased for, for no, for no cause. and the process, as i say, is the thing . and frankly, say, is the thing. and frankly, it's, it's it goes to a greater depth this in that the, the, the result is that you will not have people who will volunteer in the future to do the sorts of things you fear they'll be hounded legally. yes. because if you go into if you go into these circumstances and you have half an eye on what the consequence will be, ten, 20, 30 years down the down the line, then you're simply not going to be able to do your duty. >> george, how do these lads feel? three decades on? >> well , i know of a feel? three decades on? >> well, i know of a number of cases, certainly two of them have had serious mental problems. >> one of them was actually

convicted in a court in scotland as a part of the process of the article two inquests, which was grossly unfair. while he was mentally ill and the other guy has spent 25 years now answering questions, the same questions that keep coming round and round, and it doesn't appear he's getting any better . he's getting any better. >> and the accusations are that they basically kill people in cold blood. >> well, it's strange that an army does that. isn't it? it's our job. army does that. isn't it? it's ourjob. the nation state demands that we defend our people . we sign up to defend the people. we sign up to defend the crown, which is the emblem of our country and our people. we're managed through the mod, and we engage in that process. the problem is, we are judged by a process that is controlled by strasbourg. >> yeah, that's i mean, it's interesting we were talking in the last segment, folks, about this . albin. i mean, there have this. albin. i mean, there have to be rules somewhere. don't

they?i to be rules somewhere. don't they? i mean, i completely understand what george just said . understand what george just said. you know, i completely understand the point made by jamie that these boys were sent in to very difficult circumstances . but there are circumstances. but there are still rules . still rules. >> well, there's a complete set of rules , and we're brought up of rules, and we're brought up on them right from the start. >> you have the geneva convention. you have the rules of war, as it were . and we have of war, as it were. and we have rules of engagement within any of the operations that we undertake. are sanctioned by ministers, approved by the chain of command, and then executed on the ground. my basic point is that if you ask a soldier to go out and put himself directly in dangerin out and put himself directly in danger in what will be, because inevitably it will be a confused circumstance , and that might circumstance, and that might actually lead to a fatality . actually lead to a fatality. there will be afterwards , there will be afterwards, absolutely 100% full forensic ,

absolutely 100% full forensic, as it were. debrief and post operational process . and it gets operational process. and it gets closed out at that point. if there has been wrongdoing, there has been wrongdoing. but the point we've got now is that because of article two, any complainant later on can come in and take a case against that soldier. >> let's just be clear about this , jamie. we're talking here this, jamie. we're talking here about the european convention on human rights, written, of course, into british law under the human rights act of 1998. and of course, it can also go to the european court in strasbourg, just explain article two and why that's. and why that's causing a problem. >> i mean, i think the, the important thing to realise here is that to my mind, it's not actually the issue with the european court of human rights per se, because when the, when that, when that was drawn up in the 1940s, you know, it was drawn up by people who had been through the war. now they

understood the nature of combat . understood the nature of combat. and within the echr they put in article 15, which which enables people to derogate in time of war and in time of emergency, so that actually there's an understanding there of what warfare is all about . warfare is all about. >> and that's what you're asking for in your letter. that's what you're saying. and this is what they write. we ask the new government to activate article 15 of the echr offer to signatories as a means in times of war and other public emergencies of derogating from article two, which is the protection for right to life. >> and don't get me wrong, we're not asking . we're not sort of not asking. we're not sort of pointing the finger at this government. our purpose, because we're looking after our boys from 30 years ago is to say, please, will you review this? >> i think there's a point to add to that. if i may just quickly please the point being that if you put people off joining volunteering and that

you will eventually lose the capability, which is actually essential to your national strategy of counter—terrorism. and that therefore leaves you open to the terrorists. >> can i ask and i absolutely understand that the three of you are as apolitical as you can be. did you ? i mean, this has been did you? i mean, this has been going on for years. did the last government not listen, george, i mean, well, it began in 98. >> yeah. as you know , it came >> yeah. as you know, it came into effect in 2000. and what you've had is this incremental change to the interpretation of article two. and what prompted me, i wrote the original letter to the mod two years ago, and it was ignored. what a shock . and i was ignored. what a shock. and i wrote again in april this year before all this latest furore kicked off, and i was prompted by an article i read by charles moore, who was talking about activist judges, and i said, you know, that's the that's the point. yeah. and what they're doing is it's like a competition to see who can be the most right

on.and to see who can be the most right on. and the most what's that word ? progressive. and that's word? progressive. and that's fine . but but the government has fine. but but the government has to decide, do you want soldiers who fight and die to defend the people of this country, or do you want armed social workers ? you want armed social workers? because where we're going is in the latter . the latter. >> thank you, all three of you for coming in making the case. and i'm sure not just my respect , and i'm sure not just my respect, but the respect of all of our viewers and listeners for what you've done for this country. now, i never thought i'd sit here and say the sas are too soft, but there's no point pushing for a derogation. would you just leave the echr? no one needs to teach us in this country about liberty and freedom. and the point is, we have guys like the sas to defend those very principles. we're going to stick with the defence theme very much indeed. we're going to talk in a moment about the chagos islands. and why on earth would an american president want to urge a british government to do this? and had had david lammy even thought about what might happen if

donald trump wins on november the 5th? and what about the rights and the views of the asians themselves, who, it appears, even had a proper negotiation with the british

>> i'm christopher hope and i'm gloria de piero, bringing you pmqs live here on gb news. whenever parliament is in session on a wednesday at midday, we'll bring you live coverage of prime ministers questions. we'll be asking our viewers and listeners to submit the questions that they would like to put to the prime minister, and we'll put that to our panel of top politicians in our panel of top politicians in our westminster studio . our westminster studio. >> that's pmqs live here on gb news , britain's news channel . news, britain's news channel. >> well, the chagos islands was of course debated in parliament yesterday. but what's become very clear is that the chagossians themselves, who of

course , were, you know, taken course, were, you know, taken off the island and given a rough deal off the island and given a rough deal. the brits did in the end, try to make it up a bit to them by offering 10,000 of them the right to uk citizenship. but it seems that this whole handover has not even been discussed with that community. i'm joined by jean—francois nellen, spokesman at chagossian voices. is this correct? and welcome to the program. have there been any proper negotiations with your community? >> hi. good evening nigel. and that's correct. there were no proper consultation with the community monday before i had a meeting with the foreign minister, stephen doughty , and minister, stephen doughty, and he clearly said he is not going to talk about negotiation. that's because it's still ongoing. three days later, i got an email from bbc asking for an interview , and that's how we interview, and that's how we learn about the handover of our island to mauritius. >> well, i guess you're probably

feeling angrier than any other group here. i mean, i mean , if group here. i mean, i mean, if this goes to mauritius, do you see that the mauritian government might be helpful towards, you know, well, if we go all the way back to from the beginning when same labour government who forcibly removed the chagossian from, from the island sent to mauritius in the seychelles, there were compensation which was given at the time to the malaysian government to give to the chagossians , and that was held chagossians, and that was held from the malaysian government until the women from the asian community start doing like a hunger strike, and they were beaten by the malaysian police and gas because they were asking for the compensation. >> but some of them received peanuts, and the people that were were sent to the seychelles. they have not received a penny until today. and all those money which was given by the uk government to mauritius, the government kept

it. they have built the university of mauritius, developed the country, but nothing for the situation. and how can we trust the government now? besides , stephen doughty now? besides, stephen doughty has said they are doing a trust fund to pay for the solution in mauritius. most of the solutions coming to the uk, he's going to use that money in mauritius. >> so just to be clear , the >> so just to be clear, the dream is and i know you're third generation, you know , down the generation, you know, down the line, but the dream is for the community to be free to move back to the islands. >> correct. and like we've been saying to both tory labour, we want to go back . all of us, want to go back. all of us, majority of us want to go back under the british protection. we are not asking much , but this are not asking much, but this current government, we are saying self—determination, a right to decide our future. just give us a right. people from the falklands have the right to decide. people from gibraltar have the right to decide to just referendum. don't bargain with

haaland with mauritius. >> i have to say , jean—francois, >> i have to say, jean—francois, you make a very powerful and emotive argument and i thank you for coming on gb news and making it. well, george, you know, it was pretty harsh what happened to them, wasn't it? i know that tam fry, labour mp for many, many years was campaigning on behalf of these chagossians. it is astonishing that labour can do this without even talking to them, you know. >> do you know, i mean, it wasn't just tam, one of the biggest champions of not my necessarily best friend in politics was jeremy corbyn, who was it? and he was campaigning on that for many years. look, i think there are two elements to this. the first one is our relationship with the united states. right. and the second one is the rights of those people who want to return and whether or not they'll be allowed to. and then i guess beyond that , there's a whole

beyond that, there's a whole strategic thing about, you know , strategic thing about, you know, where it's located and what its importance is. for what it's worth, i mean, i accept, as you said, it was a powerful case that was just made very emotive and self—determination. >> those of us that believe in liberty and freedom and democracy and the nation state, we champion this . we champion this. >> absolutely. and i mean, but secondly , we can't just ignore secondly, we can't just ignore the fact that the united states are our closest or one of our closest allies having said that, they're not always easy to deal with. i spent 12 years, 11 years on the intelligence and security committee and spent a lot of time talking to politicians in the united states, and they don't always respect the importance of some issues for us that are of lesser importance to them. and so it is a difficult relationship to maintain, you know , biden apparently has know, biden apparently has approved this on the basis that

the united nations maritime court might say that we shouldn't be there and therefore we might get kicked out of the islands. >> it's nonsense, isn't it? >> it's nonsense, isn't it? >> christopher? it's sovereign british territory. so however much these courts might try to issue definitive or binding judgements, and so far it's only a non—binding one. the fact is, it's sovereign british territory. it's none of their business. that's the first point. the second point is that it was the americans in the first place, as i understand it, who asked us to remove the chagossians so that they could put that argentinian. >> and that's true, isn't it, diego garcia, bass in there. >> yeah. and now the americans are turning around and say, right now you must kick the british out. now this this is it's crazy . it's crazy because it's crazy. it's crazy because biden is absolutely in china's pocket and if you look at all the catastrophic foreign policy decisions and influences he's had, every single one of them has been to the advantage of china. there's a very strong

link between the biden family and the chinese business wise. and i think that's what's gone on here. the chinese , as you on here. the chinese, as you know, are looking to expand their military bases everywhere. they would love to get the americans out of diego garcia and replace it with themselves. and mauritius is very friendly with china. well, that's what's really going on. but here's an opportunity for reform. nigel, i don't think that a prime minister is allowed by executive action to hand away sovereign british territory. >> this came up yesterday and david lammy has said they will now and whether they originally planned to do it. but there will be a debate and an act of parliament, a debate. >> yeah, it's got to be an act of parliament. it's got point, it's got to be active. >> yeah. what is interesting about this is i spoke last night to a retired naval commander, american naval commander, who's a good friend of donald trump, who, if you believe the betting markets, is favourite to win. but hey, who knows what's going to happen in a few days time. but very odd. the british government to make this decision right ahead of an american election given, as you say yourself, the importance of the

relationship . relationship. >> well, you know, i've not been privy to any of the conversations that have taken place. what i do know , and i'm place. what i do know, and i'm talking now about the people who will have been involved in this john healey will have a very strong concern about the strategic importance of this. david lammy, who took a bit of a hammering, apparently in parliament yesterday. but i know that david is very, very careful to maintain the relationship with the united states, regardless of who wins the election . election. >> i think he is. yes. no, i think he is, which is why i think he is, which is why i think it's a mistake to have done this, because i sense i sense the trump administration may take a different view. now, a slight change of gear here. well, we're going to move actually, from discussing the chagos islands to why what the farage moment of the day, which involves a ferrari. yes it does. let's have a look at these

pictures . pictures. twice been deported from the country and he's come back into the country again. and there he is in a 300 grand car. now, he may well have earned the money through good, honest, hard laboun through good, honest, hard labour. of course he didn't. and we know that. and we can't kick him out because we're waiting to hear his asylum case, which might take goodness knows how long, but we're being made mugs of, aren't we? >> well. oh come on, it doesn't look. the look of it is not good. >> not good at all. >> not good at all. >> but i mean, you know , is this >> but i mean, you know, is this a story that merits the attention we're giving it now? i don't think it necessarily is, as you said. well, if he's earned the money, honestly. >> no, no, he hasn't, he hasn't. look, he's the reason you know,

that he's been kicked out twice, right? so he's not here legally. so he's not legally allowed to work. so this is not honest. well, unless he's earned it in albania. but it's pretty i know. we'll see. christopher. >> no, the fact is, are we back to the first debate this evening? this this is sending completely the wrong signal. what we're effectively saying is britain is open to any government that wishes to deport to us its mental defectives, its criminals. send them all to britain and we'll let them in. and that if you send that signal, the cost to the british nation, not just in money, but in national identity, which is becoming diluted by the sheer scale of this, and it also does raise the question whether we should any longer have anything to do with the so—called european so—called court of so—called human so—called rights. >> and a quick last point for a final comment from my panel. the chancellor is being urged to scrap free prescriptions for people aged 60 to 65 to sort of normalise prescriptions with retirement age. is this the

right thing to do, george? >> you know, on your programme a few weeks ago, we had a conversation about the winter fuel payments, and i made the point at the time that, you know, universal benefits, they're not always the most popular with the younger generation , but they are easier generation, but they are easier to manage. and so i think that needs to be taken into account. having said that, you know, a lot of people in the meantime have said to me about the winter fuel payments, and i think the same people would say it about this. well, actually, i don't need it. >> yeah. well, i mean, i'm 60 and i don't need it. that is absolutely for certain . would it absolutely for certain. would it make sense to regularise it with the pension age? i think that that kind of tidying up, it sounds very good in theory, but what really needs to happen is to make sure that those who actually need benefits get them, and those who actually don't need them don't get well. no, i

agree with that completely. and i do wonder with winter fuel why we can't link it to how much tax people are paying. there must be a way through. gentlemen, thank you for joining a way through. gentlemen, thank you forjoining me a way through. gentlemen, thank you for joining me this evening. in a moment, i'll be joined by a leading london wine merchant. we're going to taste a glass of white wine. we're going to talk about alcohol taxes introduced by the last government, which are very, very complicated and could threaten up to 900 independent wine merchants in this country. and i guess in a way, you can take the next segment as a pre—budget coming from the wine industry

on the average bottle of wine that you buy and drink at home, the tax is about 50%. in fact , the tax is about 50%. in fact, slightly more than 50%. but a series of very complicated alcohol taxes designed, i think, to tax stronger alcohol more

than weaker alcohol . and i have than weaker alcohol. and i have to say, i've read through it all and i'm completely bemused as to why the chancellor , jeremy hunt, why the chancellor, jeremy hunt, thought this was a good idea. i wonder what it means for the industry, and i wonder whether labour might simplify it and might reduce alcohol taxes. ha ha. i'm joined by editor hugh kendall of montrose fine wine merchants, and it seemed only appropriate to say having me on. cheers and welcome to the programme. now , looking through programme. now, looking through the numbers here, this is bedevilling complex as to whether it's 12.5% alcohol by volume or 14%. what does it all mean ? mean? >> well, up until around a year ago, actually, it was all pretty simple. all still wine in the uk was taxed at around £27 a case whether whether that wine was £2, 50 something a bottle. yeah, exactly . whether that wine was, exactly. whether that wine was, you know, a trockenbeerenauslese

at 7% or an amarone at 15.5. it was all the same rate of duty. a year ago, the government brought in plans to stagger the rate depending on the amount of alcohol in each bottle of wine . alcohol in each bottle of wine. however, crucially, they the wines between 11.5 and 14.5% were all taxed at the same rate. so although some outliers, you know, for instance, most wines would come within that. yeah, exactly. the majority of wines came with it, came within that. now what's what is apparently being proposed or what has been proposed is from february there are going to be seven tax bands, tax bands from between 11.5 and 14.5%. >> and for you as independent 900 independent wine merchants, thatis 900 independent wine merchants, that is , i mean, in bureaucratic that is, i mean, in bureaucratic terms, expensive . terms, expensive. >> i mean, it's an administrative nightmare. i mean, the last year, you know, we, you know , we've we've it's we, you know, we've we've it's been a sort of tester, i suppose , been a sort of tester, i suppose, andifs been a sort of tester, i suppose, and it's been a complete nightmare . and, and now that

nightmare. and, and now that now, now that every single wine is going to be in this, in this tiered system, it's just going to create a real problems for us. and it's not the easiest market to sell wine in. >> and, and an increasing amount of it of course also uk produced wines as well. >> well exactly. yes of course. and it's going to hit uk producers and it's going to hit uk merchants and at a time when we really don't need it, well, here's your opportunity on national television to look into the camera and make your plea to rachel reeves, the chancellor. >> yes. >> yes. >> rachel reeves, if you're watching this, this evening, it would be very much appreciated if you could if you could keep the current rate of tax as it is, and certainly not increase it, because it could be a complete nightmare for british producers. >> quite right. and i think there are seven bands within that. i mean, the whole thing is unbelievable. i must finish off by asking you , there's been by asking you, there's been a growth of, of alcohol free dnnks growth of, of alcohol free drinks being produced and

there's one which is an irish stout. you can probably guess the name at home who are doing a zero. alcohol, i have to say, is really quite tolerable and really quite tolerable and really quite tolerable and really quite good. there are some 0% gins out there that really aren't bad. what's happening in the wine world? >> well, you know, would it wreck it ? i unfortunately, at wreck it? i unfortunately, at the moment i mean i've, i've not not had an alcohol free wine that i've enjoyed. i think the fundamental problem is for for, a beer, you're only reducing it from 3% to 0%. with a wine, you're reducing it from 12% at the minimum to nought. and that just it takes out the soul and the real character that that makes the wine what it is. and so fundamentally, i don't think it's possible now montrose , you it's possible now montrose, you know, you are named of course, after a part of france known for its exceptionally good wines. >> yeah . how good is english

wine? >> i think it's certainly improved a hell of a lot over the last, over the last ten years, even . and, and sparkling years, even. and, and sparkling wines certainly. years, even. and, and sparkling wines certainly . you know, i wines certainly. you know, i think a lot of them do challenge champagne. however, they're already priced up accordingly. some of them . so you know, some of them. so you know, you're paying 40 or £40 a bottle, which is the same as you're paying for a decent champagne. i think in time, as yields start, start, start getting higher, we'll see that price come down. but yeah there's certainly some very interesting things going on at the moment. >> well thank you for coming on the program. >> well thank you very much. thank you. good luck with it all. >> well it's all those ghastly tories who were in the last parliament that have done all of this, including , of course, my this, including, of course, my colleague on my right, my fault. i mean, when you just listen to the case, the argument that's being made that they're about to introduce seven different tax bands, it is the problem of thinking that if you apply something that is utterly

logical, it will work in a human system. >> i've already had an email from majestic saying they're going to have their prices up because they're going to have to spend a six figure sum on their software to implement this scheme. >> and so you put prices up, you make life more difficult for people. and it's all about the efficiency of government rather than allowing people to get on with their lives, which you and i want to do. >> and of course, it favours the big guys because they'll bear the cost. but the little independents, it makes it much, much harder. >> all regulation favours big players and penalises small players. >> well, we learnt that from our membership of the european union. >> indeed not an annoyingly, this is a brexit benefit. we can only do this because we've left the european union, which is slightly infuriating. >> well, brexit gives us the right to manage or mismanage our own country. indeed. jacob, what have you got coming up tonight? >> we've been talking about further mismanagement and that is frightening off all the millionaires from the uk. and charlie mullins, well known for pimlico plumbers, he's going to come on, have a word with him about why he's leaving you know,

patriotic people feel they can't afford to live in this country. and that means you cut jobs, you cut tax revenue, and you end up cutting public services . cutting public services. >> it's a really bad it is stone bonkers. but of course, started by the last government. i just have to emphasise that i'm back with you tomorrow. first though, before jacob, let's get the weather with alex burkill . weather with alex burkill. >> even though we'll see a cloudy start, it'll be a bright outlook for the rest of the day. boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good evening. here's your latest gb news weather update coming to you from the met office. looking ahead. and by thursday things are looking largely dry but quite a bit colder than of late. for the time being though, still plenty of wet weather around. low pressure dominating the story across the uk. it's this low pressure that has brought all the heavy, thundery showers many of us have seen through today and there will be some further showers as we go through the next few hours across england

and wales, but many of them clearing away towards the east overnight. some persistent rain continuing though across parts of northern england and eastern scotland, so staying pretty 50993l scotland, so staying pretty soggy here with quite a bit of cloud around temperatures won't drop a huge amount, especially in the towns and cities , many in the towns and cities, many places holding up in double figures. there will be generally fewer showers around tomorrow, but there will be some. in fact, even from the start across far southern parts of england, a few showers quite likely, perhaps a little bit drier across central southern parts of wales and the midlands for a time. but further north northern england. plenty of wet weather around, some outbreaks of rain, which could be quite heavy and more persistent rain affecting eastern parts of scotland. a very 50993l eastern parts of scotland. a very soggy start to the day here as we go through the day, the rain across parts of scotland and northern england will continue for a time, but it should start to break up as we go through into the afternoon and early evening. elsewhere, a scattering of showers around, not as many as we've seen through today, and they're not looking quite as intense. less

likely to have the odd rumble of thunder, but still some heavy ones possible. and temperatures in the north starting to drop down as we get a northerly wind making its way across the country. that northerly wind then will push its way southwards across pretty much the whole of the country as we go through thursday. and so that means it is going to be a chillier day, but much fewer showers around. in fact, it's looking largely dry. yes, some showers around coastal parts, but many places having a dry day on thursday and sticking with that drier theme until the weekend. by by. >> we'll see a cold snap which will quickly develop into a warm front. boxt

rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight , rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight, britain is set to see the biggest exodus of millionaires in the world as the government's planned raid on non—doms forced wealth creators to flee, taking their prosperity and taxes with them. it's not the rich who will suffer, it's everybody else. four becomes three. tom tugendhat bows out of the conservative leadership race after failing to secure the backing of mps. james cleverly storms ahead of robert jenrick. so what are the final three need to do to reign victorious? with both the tory faithful and the country at large, the uk population has soared at its highest rate of growth since the early 1970s because of uncontrolled levels of immigration. how long can this go on before britain bursts at the seams? all this as the echr allows an albanian criminal back into the country after being deported. how are we to reclaim control of our own borders? a new research shows the over 57 seconds are facing disadvantages when searching for jobs, seconds are facing disadvantages when searching forjobs, as employers see this as the age

where hiring becomes less appealing as productivity slumps