note for and. and it was just note for note, even in rehearsal. it was just it was the rehearsal was really for us rather than for him. he knew what he was doing and it was just musically perfect. so i learnt a lot about that. and also seeing him, you know, make every single person in a stadium or an arena feel completely like they'd had their moment with him. he managed to involve all parts of the of such a big audience, and then doing the solo for him was, yeah, possibly the scariest moment of my life. so whenever i've been in political dramas and moments, nothing's really come close to kind of that feeling of dread every time that kind of moment happens. so . but no, a wonderful happens. so. but no, a wonderful moment. and i'll never forget it. >> those are beautiful tributes and rather briefly , because and rather briefly, because we're kind of running out of time. but it seems to me that music and politics are almost opposites, because politics is full of soloists and, and music has to be there has to be a conductor and people have to play conductor and people have to play together. so have you found that a difficult contrast .7 that a difficult contrast? >> that's true. but i think

politics and music and maybe this is just me rationalising a very confusing, you know, career and cv, but i think they're all about ultimately communication and connecting with an audience. and if too you're absorbed in your own jazz world, just playing, what's interesting to you? no one really cares. i mean, i learned that when i, when i was a student at university, i went out busking. it was quite a good job, and the moment i started improvising like a jazz musician, i didn't get paid. the moment i played the tune and reconnected with the tune and reconnected with the audience, i got paid again. you know, i could hear the pounds coming in. you know, i could hear the pounds coming in . so i think, pounds coming in. so i think, you know, politics, whether it's, you know, politics or music or even teaching in music, they're all about trying to connect with an audience. and that's what i try and kind of you know, help people to do in the world of politics and business. >> but did you not find yourself saying to politicians, what you guys need is someone with .a baton at the front, and you're going to follow that? you need a bit of authority and you need to follow what the guy at the front or woman at the front says there needs to be you know, less chaos. >> but then, you know, my world of jazz , there is none of that. of jazz, there is none of that. you know you do. it is a free

for all. and you do make it up as you go along. although there are certain kind of rules and bits of the language. but no, in the end you've just got to come out of your world as a whether i'm advising a politician or business or a business leader, you've got to come out of your world just because something is interesting to you doesn't mean it's interesting to the audience and put yourself in the mindset of the audience who are sitting there just as the lights are going down, or the voter and think about what they need from a saxophone player. it's possibly different to what the saxophone player wants from his own saxophone playing. and so i think that's the journey i've been on. i think as a musician and as a kind of, you know, strategist behind the scenes, very fascinating journey, too, and long may it continue. >> many thanks to ed barker. after the break, i'll be joined by the spectator contributor stephen daisley to explain why he thinks that the west can learn a lot from israel. that was really

>> welcome back. there has been a significant shift in the dynamics of power in the middle east. israel has eliminated key leaders of hamas , and hezbollah leaders of hamas, and hezbollah has taken the fight against hezbollah into lebanon, has engaged the houthis, and even exchanged missiles with iran. at this point, it appears to have secured considerable success, leaving iran humiliated and ineffective. we can speculate that there have been cheers in saudi arabia and in other arab states that wish to see iran contained, but israel has contended with calls from its western allies to call a ceasefire and some european countries have even recognised a palestinian state. has israel now left the west looking foolish and ineffective? and, more importantly, does israel offer us an example of how a robust policy of self—defence can help to shape the sort of world that we want to live in? joining me now is the spectator contributor stephen daisley. stephen, welcome to gb news.

hello. to begin with, how do you think the situation in the middle east has been changed by these, by these israeli actions? >> i think the change that we have seen in the past, even just the past few weeks, has been extraordinary. i would say it's been historic. and we've seen israel move from a position, really, of attempting to contain these iran proxy terror threats like hezbollah. and obviously it was already engaging with hamas for the past year. it has moved from a position of trying to contain to actively taking out the leadership of , for example, the leadership of, for example, hezbollah, the targeted assassination of hassan nasrallah, which was, i think, a historic coup for israel. and what it's shown is that time and again, whenever israel has broken with the united states and europe, with with what western leaders would want it to do, whether it was bombing osirak or whether it was taking

out the syrian reactor in two thousand and seven or now taking out hassan nasrallah, there's been a lot of condemnation from the west. but israel has actually helped to contribute to actually helped to contribute to a more stable middle east, and that there is a feeling among israelis you talk to that, you know, perhaps the westerners should start listening to israel since it has been able to deliver the goods in terms of taking out some of these terror leaders who are responsible. and let's not forget, not just for terrible atrocities against israelis, but against their own people. hassan nasrallah was responsible. he took hezbollah into the syrian civil war on the side of the bucha assad and killed many arabs, including palestinians. >> do you think the west has been made to look foolish by what has happened in the last few weeks ? few weeks? >> i think foolish is that when you said it the first time, michael, that that is exactly the word i would use. and i think that we have a lot of ,

think that we have a lot of, shall we say, oxbridge ppe and harvard and yale educated people, very, very clever people staffing the us state department and the british foreign office and the british foreign office and the british foreign office and the council on foreign relations. and they have been preaching this, this doctrine that israel must reign itself in, must not confront iran and allow the west to agree the original iran deal. the jcpoa, which obviously donald trump withdrew the us from, although there is a move to try to resurrect that that approach that that western approach, which is, you know, it's well—meaning , but it has been well—meaning, but it has been proved time and again that it doesn't work. the very fact that we learned in reports in recent days that there was communication between hamas and iran about the october seventh attack. so iran had advanced knowledge of this attack. that is not a good faith actor in the international community. and the problem has been that the west

has tried to treat iran as if it was dealing with a nation that was dealing with a nation that was slightly problematic. iran is not merely problematic, it is a rogue nation. and it not only threatens israel, it threatens the gulf . arab states like saudi the gulf. arab states like saudi arabia, like the united arab emirates . and it it threatens emirates. and it it threatens western interests more generally. >> it seems as though iran at present is cowering the responses from iran to what has happened fall far short of what might have been predicted, and i can imagine, i can imagine if i were an iranian leader, that i would be in fear of my life. israel has demonstrated the ability to pick off targets, including inside iran. it seems to have the most extraordinary amount of gin, an incredible database, and this is a big part of its success. and i just wonder the failure of iran to act as might have been expected, could that have an influence on on events inside iran itself?

>> that is a good question , in >> that is a good question, in that the mullahs in iran and the regime in tehran really only have fear that is what they have. >> that is what they rule by. and, you know, the iranian street , if you like, street, if you like, particularly in the big cities, particularly in the big cities, particularly younger and educated iranians despise this regime , but it is a regime that regime, but it is a regime that rules through fear and regime, but it is a regime that rules throug