under pressure, you can't that's under pressure, you can't give the, the excellent palliative care necessarily that, you know, you should be able to give. and of course that's going to put people under pressure. even in oregon, around half of the people who access jonathan's ideal law in oregon say they do it because they feel a burden on their caregivers. and i don't want to be in a situation where people are choosing death because they feel a burden. it's much better for us to say, i know life is difficult, death can be difficult, death can be difficult, but we will care for you. we will give you dignity by the way we care for you. >> well, you've outlined your position very, very clearly, but you have also accused jonathan romain of having a lacking compassion, which i feel is a personal, limiting allegation, limiting his compassion. can i ask you about that, jonathan.7 do you want to respond directly to that? >> yeah. i mean, mark has been talking about jonathan's law and jonathan's this. it's not me. i'm actually perfectly healthy and i hope to carry on to my last breath. i'm really actually concerned about the thousands and thousands of people who are

dying badly. all of us want to live as good a life as possible. why shouldn't we have as good a death as possible .7 you know, i death as possible? you know, i saw someone called doris the other day. well, about 2 or 3 months ago in a hospice, being looked after superbly. but she said to me, you know, every night i pray to god that i won't wake up in the morning and every morning i'm disappointed. it's those people i want to help. if those people i want to help. if those people i want to give the option. not for some either way, but give them the option. i think they have a right to that option, as do gb news viewers, because i think it's possible, isn't it? >> mark pickering, to see this from both sides, that actually both sides of the argument are coming at it from a position of compassion, but they have a different perspective on on what is best for the patients. can you envisage any situation where you envisage any situation where you would see assisted dying as being the appropriate course of action? >> i mean, i know i've pushed jonathan quite hard because that's that's what we have to do here, but i think, yes, of course i have sympathy for people on jonathan's side, whether it's campaigners or whether it's campaigners or whether it's campaigners or whether it's individuals, you know, nobody wants to suffer unnecessarily. and of course, we

have fears about what would happen. it's essential that we get the broken system that doesn't give us enough palliative care when we need it. and that really does deal with the vast majority of these calls for bad deaths and experiences of bad deaths, because i've worked in a hospice and i've seen people coming in from hospitals saying, doctor, just let me die. and within a few days they're not asking that anymore. when you really deal with their symptoms, yes, there will always be a small number of people who still want that. but we must remember that a small number of people who, you know, shouldn't necessarily change the law to make other people vulnerable . many people, you vulnerable. many people, you know, like if ethnic minorities, people with english as a second language, many people like many of the constituents in in kim ledbetter's constituency, you know, many muslims, many others, many hindus, many people from the indian subcontinent, for instance, they're not necessarily calling out for it. ihave necessarily calling out for it. i have colleagues in work in east london. they have lots of

ethnic minority patients. nobody is saying to them, you know, please let me die. but they're saying, no , please don't refer saying, no, please don't refer me to that hospital, because i think that hospice because i think that hospice because i think they might want to kill me there. you know, there's so much fear on the other side from people who don't really understand what end of life care is all about. >> okay. and, jonathan, i just want to bring you in finally on that point. and you know , this that point. and you know, this nofion that point. and you know, this notion of regret, this notion of when people are in in terrible pain, in that moment, they might feel that this is the only possible solution. and they might later find that those solutions that that it does resolve itself. and then a terrible mistake might have been made. is that is that something you've considered? >> very much so. and that's why we have this red line of them being terminally ill. so they're not having a depressing depression in their 40s. they're not having a bad result of a heart attack or some cancer that can be cured in their 60s or 70s. these are people who are dying of inoperable cancer, or they can no longer move because they've got parkinson's, or they're slowly choking to death

with motor neurone disease. these are hard cases, and i'm giving people options , whereas giving people options, whereas the opponents are saying, no, you can't have that option. i think that's a slightly more it's slightly more compassionate. is it not to give people the option of which way they want to choose how to end their life? saying, no, there's only one way that i think is rather cruel and actually, i think if you be honest, nothing personal here, mark. i think it's a bit arrogant to say i don't like this and therefore i'm not going to let you like this either. let's give people choice how to end there. >> why didn't you give paul lamb his choice when he asked for it? paralysed for 30 years, you said, no, we're not going to support a law that would help you and argue against it. >> you're either going to have red lines and be be safe or you have a free for all. i don't want a free for all. do you? of coui'se. >> course. >> okay. well, that's why i do appreciate you both coming on to discuss this very sensitive issue. but i'm afraid that's all we've got time for. thank you both ever so much. jonathan romayne and mark pickering. okay. well, next on free speech.

nathan, do join us after the break. we'll have our social sensations. and we also have some unfiltered dilemmas . you've some unfiltered dilemmas. you've emailed in with all your problems, and we will solve them. well , problems, and we will solve them. well, we'll try to solve them. so please don't go anywhere.

welcome back to free speech nation, and i'm absolutely delighted to say that, as usual, ihave delighted to say that, as usual, i have david oldroyd here to discuss his his weekly roundup of the arts and culture. david, welcome to the show. so what have you been doing this week? what's been happening? >> well, the first thing was a production of tchaikovsky's opera eugene onegin at the royal opera house, covent garden, which i saw last week and has one performance left tomorrow night. there are tickets left. it was a supremely good production. the director is the american ted huffman. it's quite sparse staging, but not it

doesn't get in the way. really excellent performance. i want to single out of olga by the young mezzo soprano avery amaro. gordon bintner a very, very good eugene onegin , and a eugene onegin, and a particularly fine performance from the principal ballerina, lauren bridal. the opera has, along with most of tchaikovsky's operas, a balletic scene because it was at the time necessary for performance both in russia and in france, to have a balletic scene. and the i can't remember, i'm afraid , who the producer is i'm afraid, who the producer is of this balletic scene, but the elegance with which it is done, the mixture of classical ballet with a very modernistic stage and i thought worked exceptionally well . fantastic. exceptionally well. fantastic. and the conductor is the hunganan and the conductor is the hungarian henrik nana akua. >> and what about the cost if people? because a lot of people are scared, i think it's prohibitive. >> yeah, well, i've just looked at the cheapest ticket available is £53, which i think is pretty for good covent garden with a full view seat. these are not restricted view and if you're feeling like you want to take your wife or husband out for an anniversary, you can have a stool seat for 250, which i'm

reliably informed is still less than a premiership football ticket. >> exactly. and you pay a lot more for les miserables than £53. >> yes, for a great deal less artistically . artistically. >> yeah, exactly. yeah. the same tune many, many times. anyway , tune many, many times. anyway, let's not talk about that. what else have you been doing this? >> well, one thing to look forward to on tuesday night at saint george's hanover square in mayfair is a performance by chiara hendrik and opera settecento , the, which i didn't settecento, the, which i didn't know about until it was brought to my attention. the first engush to my attention. the first english singer in the 18th century to sing the then italian and german roles, a woman called jane barbier, who had a rather rackety life. she invested in the south sea bubble. she ran 1520 00:10:35,144 --> 00:10:3