world. second, the then western world. second, france came first. well, i'm not sure about that. 1794 after the revolution, that they were the first ones to abolish slavery, the abolition of slavery act, the, the act of parliamentary slave trade. that was britain, that was britain . but we came that was britain. but we came after france, britain, and we spent blood and treasure trying to abolish it on the high seas. so we were the first in abolishing the slave trade. and we get no credit for it whatsoever, as i say. i mean, france came first and britain, britain passed an act to abolish the slave trade. but slavery carried on for another 25 years. >> what about for example, families who greatly benefited in jamaica, or indeed any of the commonwealth, you know, black families who still own land, who benefited greatly from slavery back in the day.7 should they be made to pay.7 is back in the day? should they be made to pay? is it just white people? >> well, i mean, if they were slavers, they come into the same thing. i don't think anyone should be made to pay. and i still go back to my point about,

about let's do the cut off point of something that's in living memory, so we don't have to worry about the romans or whatever. so. so no, they shouldn't pay. but i mean, at the moment we have a situation where there are families in this country who are still rich because because on the back of slavery, some of those families have decided to pay some money out of their consciences. good for them. it is not for the taxpayer, for ordinary people who are never involved in slavery to do it. but we only finished paying the bill that we paid the slave owners. we compensated them, not the slaves. we compensated the slave owners. that bill was only. we only finished paying it in 2015. >> so it's time to stop the conversation about reparations. is it time to stop the conversation about why people like me should feel guilty about it? you know, white people should feel guilty about it. i had nothing to do with the slave trade. >> you should feel you shouldn't feel guilty about being made to feel guilty about being made to feel this way by the commentariat, particularly people like david lammy or clive lewis . well, i mean, i mean, in lewis. well, i mean, i mean, in fairness, when david lammy was talking about reparations, it was on the back of windrush in

2018 and the windrush people were compensated . these are were compensated. these are people who suffered, who are still alive and so are their relatives and they were rightly compensated. that's where compensation should go, not for people who suffered 200 years ago. >> trev, final word to you. do you think this conversation is ever going to go away, or will it get battered down the road? but will continually come back out of the weeds? >> no, i don't think it's going to go away. i think that nigel has actually spelled out the common sense approach to this, and i wish that the labour party and i wish that the labour party and its mps would support that line. i don't think they're going to . going to. >> okay. thank you very much, trevor and nigel. superb stuff as ever. now , a new report as ever. now, a new report reveals the vast majority of people believe that children should be taught to be proud of british history. so should they

welcome back to bbn tonight with me, martin daubney. now, a new report has revealed that chinese heritage pupils on free school meals, some of the most disadvantaged pupils in britain, are actually outperforming white british pupils from wealthier backgrounds. let alone the white working classes at the bottom. now, encouragingly, the reports from the think tank policy exchange also shows that nearly three quarters of people from ethnic minority backgrounds believe that their children should be taught to be proud of british history . well, despite british history. well, despite what the liberal luvvies at the bbc and the guardian tell us, it is, black africans , black is, black africans, black canbbeans is, black africans, black caribbeans and indians that have some of the highest levels of pride in britain's past, with events like the world wars, the industrial revolution and the abolition of the slave trade. our previous topic topping the list. now, joining me to discuss this is the senior research fellow at brightblue, btec

stashevsky. i got that right. >> yes that's right. >> yes that's right. >> welcome to the show. and the former political editor, of course, at the sun, trevor kavanagh and gb news senior political editor , nigel nelson. political editor, nigel nelson. gentlemen, welcome to the studio. bartek, let's start with you. we're taught all the time. or at least we hear all the time in the media. we should be ashamed of all of the aforementioned things. we should be ashamed of what britain did in world war ii. actually, we're the nazis now. we should be ashamed of slavery despite the fact we abolished it. and we should be ashamed of our role on the world stage in the empire and the days of the colonial times. and yet when you actually ask ethnic minorities, they disagree with that. >> well , i've never heard >> well, i've never heard anybody say that we are the nazis now, but they should be proud. >> and it's right at parliament square and the pro—palestine protest on chief. i'll tell you, it happens all the time. anyway, i digress. >> well, i think they're right to feel proud. i mean, look at this country. look at the there's just so many things you can look at to see. we have

record low levels of social of social cohesion, record low levels of trust and democracy, of trust in institutions. and this is the result of this. this is the result of people not feeling like they belong, because if they're not proud of who they are, if they're not proud of the society, they belong to, of their common history, shared customs, shared beliefs, then what do they have left? they have nothing in common with the person next to them. so obviously they will not feel like like they fit in. >> and yet , btec, when you look >> and yet, btec, when you look at a lot of curricula, certainly within secondary school, and definitely by the time you get on to university campuses, the prevailing narrative is one of white guilt of the colonial shame. that's what kids are being taught. so are the academics a problem? are we teaching nonsense to a generation? whereas in actual fact , even the black ethnic fact, even the black ethnic minorities, they want to be told that britain is great. >> i don't know if that's true, but in i think 2014, the department for education published some guidance on what they defined as british values. and i think that included things

like mutual respect and democracy, which are great and which i approve of. but they're also true of, say, being french. french people also love democracy, and they have mutual respect. what is important is that we identify the things that are unique about us as british people, that we have in common and that are unique to us, that are true of british indians and british pakistanis and british chinese people and white british people as well, but are not true of the french. >> can i also ask you about a fascinating finding in this? and thatis fascinating finding in this? and that is the poorest chinese students of chinese origin. students outperform even wealthy brits, and they annihilate the white working classes in education. and yet there are no initiatives anywhere. trust me, i know, because this is what got me involved in politics to help those white working class kids at the bottom. they seem to have been forgotten all this because they're white, they're privileged. but the truth shows us they're actually struggling. >> i'm not sure that's true, so i am. well, i am. i come from a working class background. i was eligible for free school meals, and when i was younger i had

access to loads of social mobility schemes, which helped me to get where i am today. sitting here. and this is also a representation of a trend that's been true for a very long time. before this, i've had a look at some statistics. it was already true in 2003 that chinese and i think also indian pupils were outperforming white pupils of the same socioeconomic standards. so i think this is this is the consequence of a long lasting trend. >> so what initiatives were you offered to help you. because i haven't seen any. >> well, if you look at this report, it's got a lot of great recommendations. and i want to thank ian and raqib for writing it, because i really do think it's got it spot on. and a lot of the recommendations are great. one that i want to highlight is in 2010, david cameron tried to engage in big society , and he gave up on it in society, and he gave up on it in four years. and people think it's a failure. and i think the crown of policy of social cohesion, it lies crown of policy of social coh