else. >> i mean, you say prison works, but next week, 2000 very dangerous people are being released because of your government's leaving the prisons overfull. that's your fault. why don't you build more prisons when you have the chance as government? >> well, i campaigned on a manifesto to build more prisons, and i also campaigned for a prison in my constituency. >> which one was that? sorry? which one was that? >> wethersfield. i think it was just on the border of my constituency. why didn't we build one covid? it just stopped all of the building programmes, but two more significantly, that site , which was a former defence site, which was a former defence site, which was a former defence site, is now housing asylum seekers. it is all connected. we cannot build a prison on that side because we have so many people coming into our country who we are processing until we stop solve the migration issue , stop solve the migration issue, especially the illegal migration issue, we're going to have so many second or third order effects hotels being used instead of having tourists in them housing asylum seekers ,

them housing asylum seekers, prisons that should be built, being used to house people that we are processing. this is why i talk about that system. we need system thinkers. we need people who are going to start from the ground up and redesign the whole thing. it is all a big mess, and i'm sorry that we weren't able to do that. we wanted to do it. it wasn't for a lack of will, but the system that we were operating in. it does not allow us to govern properly and we have to change it. >> but, but but you did meet victoria atkins. the prison minister, in 2022 when you expressed concerns about that, that plan for the wethersfield prison, didn't you? >> no, no, no, i didn't i didn't express concerns you were okay about it all. >> no problem. >> no problem. >> yes , yes, i have i think >> yes, yes, i have i think i think i might have had a meeting with constituents who expressed concerns, and that's me doing my job as a minister. but. >> but you are backing the prisoners point always. >> we have to build that prison. >> we have to build that prison. >> and what would you do next week? would you release these, these criminals to release the pressure on the prison sector? >> we have to make sure that the prison system works and what the prison system works and what the prison officers tell tell me.

certainly the ones who i have met is that when the numbers are too high, they can't control the prisons. their safety is absolutely paramount. we do not want to see prison officers being harmed because they are full. so i do understand that. but we must make sure that the ones who are coming out are not dangerous. what we are seeing are people who come out and are committing very, very serious crimes and are coming back in. something is going wrong. so what i would do differently is actually look at who is going out and making sure that there are people who are already rehabilitated, not the ones who are going to carry out even more crimes. >> so in summary, you would release them . what labour is release them. what labour is doing next week is understandable given what is going on or would you try and find a different way to house these individuals? >> this was this was something this was something that was that was a challenge for us. some people talk about building makeshift prisons. that's not quite suitable for some of the sorts of people who are who are in there. they need to be very secure. so we need to be

careful. i'm not saying that we did everything perfectly. i'm not somebody who is going to be obstructive in opposition, where there are problems that we can help labour, we should do. so it's not about attacking them on every single thing. it is about being focused and making sure that we have a better plan. >> okay. thank you . >> okay. thank you. >> okay. thank you. >> on to public services now. sarah fry from stevenage is here. sarah, where's sarah? thank you. hi . thank you. hi. >> the nhs has never had more money nor produced poorer results. >> how do you propose kemi to restore the nhs to a position of national pride? >> thank you, thank you sarah. this is one of the most important questions of our age. the nhs was built for a young, homogeneous , mostly working homogeneous, mostly working population. it is now serving a complex, diverse, ageing population. we cannot have the nhs that was fine in the 1950s.

for now there have been many amazing developments. it is doing so much more than it ever used to do, but you are right, we have put more money into it and we are not getting as much out. we're even getting less out than we used to have before. so the reforms that i would want to see are ones that we have in partnership with the staff of the nhs. they understand it better than we do. it is the biggest workforce. it's certainly the biggest single employer in the whole country. there is something that needs to be done about talking about what the nhs of the future can look like. i have many people who tell me that they're going off to australia to work there, but they don't want the australian system, they don't want the social insurance, they don't want to pay, but they want the. >> do you think the tories have a problem with nhs? they're not trusted with it. is that part of the problem. >> well we have given it more money than ever before. we put, we literally put a sign on the side of the bus, we're going to give £350 million more per week to the nhs. most people don't know that. we gave actually almost double that. and still nothing. you know, we didn't get

out the returns so we can be trusted on the nhs. labour have been saying for 40 years that as soon as the tories come in, the nhs is going to die. it is still here. it is still working, but it does need reform and that is what i plan to do if i become leader of our party. thank you. >> well, and there we have it. our live audience here have had their chance to grill kemi badenoch. and next it's your turn at home with quickfire questions submitted to us already. we'll get back to patrick christys in the gb news reaction room. this is decision time, the race to lead, and is only on gb news

welcome back to decision time. the race to lead only on gb

news. kemi badenoch is still here. as you can see. let's get straight into some quickfire questions from gb news viewers and listeners. kevin badenoch. the first question, you've been quoted in the independent saying that if we get this wrong, there's going to be no party, there's going to be no party, there's no second chance. but robert jenrick might win in that case. are you being a bit mean to him? >> no, no, this is more serious than just rob. we need to make sure that we hand this party to the next generation. we are the most successful party in the history of western democracy . history of western democracy. and we got a great legacy. we've got a hand to the next generation. there is a new centre right party that is eating our vote. there is no guarantee or no expectation that the conservative party must always be that centre right party. so we've got to fight for our survival. we cannot be complacent. we cannot take it for granted. and that is what i mean. if we get this wrong and we continue to lose our share of the vote, reform will overtake us and i do not want to see that. okay .

that. okay. >> my colleague, the presenter emily carver, wanted me to ask you both a question. what is your opponent's biggest weakness ? your opponent's biggest weakness? >> my opponent's. well, i have to think through very carefully what i say here. >> be honest about it. >> be honest about it. >> so i think the weakness is in the argument. that is that is made. and i know sometimes there is a temptation for us who've been ministers to still carry the baggage of the department we've come out of. i have this as business secretary. you hear me? when i'm talking about government regulations, you can see that i'm traumatised by it. but i think that the echr argument is not the right one. i think that is the biggest weakness. i think it will divide our party. it will mean that the infighting and squabbling will continue. if we want to end the drama, we need to do this. the right way. let's come to a consensus. and maybe that is leaving the echr. but it is not about imposing your views on everybody else .

everybody else. >> your colleague christopher hopeisin >> your colleague christopher hope is in the >> your colleague chris