>> hello and welcome back to patrick christys tonight. and what a bumper show this really is . first what a bumper show this really is. first robert what a bumper show this really is . first robert jenrick at that is. first robert jenrick at that leadership event made his stance clear on the echr. >> there's a clear choice here. it's leave or remain and for i'm leave . leave. >> well, then kemi badenoch didn't hold back, lauding her own credentials, i delivered the biggest trade deal that we have had since we left the european union . union. >> i am somebody who, you know, delivers. i am somebody who, you know, has a track record so you can trust me . can trust me. >> robert jenrick took a firm line on foreign aid begins by spending more on our armed forces. >> let's take that money from our international aid budget and

let's spend it on our armed forces. that is the best way . forces. that is the best way. >> and badenoch told the brexit doomsayers that it's time to get real, to stop blaming brexit for our problems. >> we need to stop blaming the eu or international agreements and start fixing problems here ourselves . ourselves. >> well, i will be taking you live to the spin room at the venue where we just hosted that bumper political head to head. i'm quite keen to know who your money's on. we have the latest betting odds to reveal to you as well. there's been a big shift. can you guess which way that it's gone? but the top tories there are going to try to convince you that their own pick one. i've got my wonderful panel with me as well. we've had a shift up. we've shuffled the pack. former labour party adviser matthew laza telegraph star columnist allison pearson, tory peer lord bailey and gb news political correspondent katherine forster as well. my audience are here. they're raring to go .

raring to go. i've played you some of the big clips from that head to head between robert jenrick and kemi badenoch, but we've got a man who's still on the scene now. thatis who's still on the scene now. that is our deputy political edhon that is our deputy political editor, tom harwood, who's been grafting away in the spin room. tom, what's going on? where you are . are. >> oh, it's been a fascinating evening, patrick. it's been electric here, where we've had, of course, hundreds of conservative party members. we've had the teams of each of the two candidates and their spinners as well. we're going to be hearing a little bit later in this programme from david davis, who i've just been speaking to, but my goodness me, what an electric atmosphere this has been. and you really felt the passion and the hunger from these two candidates. i think we really felt was two different approaches . really felt was two different approaches. kemi really felt was two different approaches . kemi badenoch not approaches. kemi badenoch not going for the soundbite, but trying to win people over with a

general approach. robert jenrick trying to be hard and heavy on policy, trying to get people to remember those two key planks of his campaign , to leave the echr his campaign, to leave the echr and to put a cap, a parliament set cap on net migration. kemi badenoch says that it would be wrong to dive into too many preordained policy positions before there can be unity within the conservative party. she was talking about values much more than policy. two very different approaches in the hall tonight, and it did seem that those who sat through the entire event at the end , we saw a number of the end, we saw a number of hands go up for kemi badenoch . hands go up for kemi badenoch. of course, the generic campaign say that this event is in london and i have to do apologise. it isindeedin and i have to do apologise. it is indeed in london, in westminster, where we could get all the campaigns together at short notice. but my goodness me, it does feel like this campaign has entered a new level today. it feels like for the first time we've seen in the flesh these two candidates, one

by one, convinced the same audience and put across their points. of course, as christopher hope has been saying throughout the evening, those ballot papers are landing on conservative members doormats as we speak. so it's all to play for . for. >> okay. thank you very much . >> okay. thank you very much. tom harwood there, our deputy political editor whizzing you through there from the venue. let me reintroduce my panel again. we've got daily telegraph columnist allison pearson, conservative peer lord bailey, former labour party adviser matthew larson, and gb news political correspondent katherine forster. now, shall we just remind ourselves of what both of these potential tory leadership candidates said about immigration here? it is another clear choice. >> it's a cap or a no cap, and rm— >> it's a cap or a no cap, and i'm for capping migration. >> it's a cap or a no cap, and i'm for capping migration . two i'm for capping migration. two clear choices leave or remain, cap or no cap. for i'm leave. i'm for capping migration. >> it's the echr argument is not

the right one. i think that is the right one. i think that is the biggest weakness. i think it will divide our party. it will mean that the infighting and squabbling will continue. if we want to end the drama, we need to do this the right way. let's come to a consensus. and maybe thatis come to a consensus. and maybe that is leaving the echr. but it is not about imposing your views on everybody else . on everybody else. >> let me throw it over straight to a member of our audience, sir. which one of those impressed you more when it came to immigration? >> well, i think robert clearly is clear in terms of leaving the echr which which is great. >> but the problem here is that you've got two candidates here who are at the right wing of the party. therefore, where is the clear blue daylight between the conservative party, with one of these two candidates going into these two candidates going into the next general election, compared to reform and you could have a repeat again where you've got reform splitting the vote. and if you add together the

reform voters and the conservative voters, that's going to let labour in, that's that's going to be the problem with these two. >> well, i'm glad you've made that point, because sitting to my right here is the lady who many people credit with bumping james cleverly out of this leadership race and helping to create the situation that we currently find ourselves in. alison, what have you learned tonight from what you've seen of those two candidates and especially, you know, in terms of immigration and the reform threat, i thought this was actually i thought it was a brilliant event for gb news christopher hope did a wonderful job. >> it was really buzzing, wasn't it? >> i thought this was robert jenrick best performance. >> i've seen him give. he was much more relaxed and assured than he had been at the tory party conference. i take what this gentleman says, but i think rob is right . we are going to rob is right. we are going to have to leave the echr to get a control of immigration, and the human rights act as well, is going to have to be repealed. and i thought, although i'm a huge admirer of kemi, absolutely think she's fearless and wonderful. i think that she is wrong about this. and i think when she says we need to have consensus in the party on this ,

consensus in the party on this, this is the problem with the conservatives. they cannot have consensus on this because, you know, there's a huge tranche of them, a liberal democrats. so that's going to have to change. and i think that she also made a mistake. she said that france is in the echr and can deport 70% of its asylum seekers . that is of its asylum seekers. that is wrong. that is just not factually correct. they deport about 30%, which is the same as us. so i think robert jenrick is making a very strong point and he is right. if they don't do something about that, patrick, they are not going to win the next election . the implication, next election. the implication, the implication. >> i certainly don't want to put words in your mouth , but if words in your mouth, but if i was just a viewer at home, i would be wondering whether or not the daily telegraph was about to back robert jenrick, which could be bad for news you because you shaun bailey are a kemi fan, aren't you? >> 100% and it's just suggesting about echr. i'll tell you why. kemi is correct. there are many people in the party who wouldn't leave the echr immediately, and in order to do that right, it's going to be a colossal task . going to be a colossal task. there's lots of good and bad in that and people will just not

walk away from that. and of course, the international community won't let us walk away from it easily. it will have effect on other things that we do want to be involved in. so that means kemi is correct. if we're going to take that on, we're going to take that on, we're going to need to take it on as a group. that's the first piece. the second piece is we don't need to use the echr to get people out of the country. let's be very clear. we have immigration rules as they stand today. that means we immigrat