it being there actually, i think it would be absolutely riveting to hear both sides listen to how directly or not, perhaps each of them will answer christopher hope questions. >> tom buick well, i'm hoping calvin will take me along as his plus one. is that what you want to be after the show? you know who'd have thought you'd ever have wanted to be kelvin mackenzie? >> there's a queue. >> there's a queue. he >> there's a queue. he knows i have a soft spot for him. >> really? >> really? >> well, something we need to talk about off air. there you go. >> look, ladies and gents, you've got 28 minutes to go just over before gb news. we hear this exclusive event, decision time. the race to lead. make sure you get in touch with me and tell us who do you want to see win this debate, and what are the key issues for you? i told you at the start, philip, one of the viewers, he's already beenin one of the viewers, he's already been in touch saying he wants to see both of them essentially pledge to restore the winter fuel allowance. would you share that? do you ever see it happening there or not? but there you go. that is the live.

see that you're seeing there from that central location. the audience are sitting there ready and waiting to go live at 7:00 here on gb news. now let's go back to the conversation we were just having before the break. lucy connolly, the wife of the tory councillor jailed for 31 months for that tweet that she sent on the day of the southport events mass deportation, now set fire to all the bleep hotels full of the bleeps for all i care. and while you're at it, take the treacherous government and politicians with them. i feel physically sick knowing what those families will now have to endure. and if that makes me racist, then so be it, she said. you were saying before the break, i'll tell you what i think should have happened. go on then. >> well, as a first offence, i don't think she should have got this custodial offence. although that sentence, although of course, after 31 months i think she'll be, she'll be out potentially after 15 months. still, that's a long time. if you haven't been to prison before, what i would have done is actually issued a community order. you know , judges have

order. you know, judges have this at their disposal. and in fact, the thing that she should have done as a part of her community service, in my view , community service, in my view, is been assigned to voluntary groups, have to work with refugees and migrants. i think that might have given her a perspective then on the tweet that she wrote and the way in which she wrote that tweet, and essentially, in my view, she inched essentially, in my view, she incited hatred and violence towards that particular group that would have, i think, been a more appropriate sentence. and she may have actually then learned something from it. >> so i've got to say, because before the break, you were using words like stupid and dim and all the rest of it. so just for the record, i absolutely don't condone what she wrote. i think it was absolutely wrong. i think she was right to apologise, and she was right to apologise, and she was right to apologise, and she was right to have taken it down. and i think it was the wrong thing to have tweeted. but it's all well and good in the cold light of day. sitting in a studio pontificating about she could have done this and she could have done this and she could have done that. well, people have got to remember is this was a mother who, very sadly, in her own private life, had lost a child. she was filled

with the emotion that everybody felt, that there was these little girls that had just gone dancing. that was all they'd done. they'd just gone dancing. and then the news poured in that they had been hacked to death. now anyone you don't need to be a mother, but especially when you're a mother, the feeling, the visceral emotion that you feel, it's overwhelming with all had in our minds as well. what the recent scenes that you've seen in parnell square in dublin, where you saw those little girls and a little boy again slashed with a knife coming out of their primary school. we saw the scenes, the horrendous scenes in annecy where you saw babies hacked to death by a man in there when the babies was in their pushchairs in a pram. so you've got all of these emotions flying through you. you will have rage with the government. and that was reflected in that tweet as well. there was a sense that the truth was being withheld, not saying that that was the truth or not. i'm saying that that was the sense at the time, and i just feel again, i need to clarify, it was wrong to have tweeted, i

don't agree with it. yes, she should have taken it down and yes, she should have apologised. and no, i don't think you can suggest that people set fire to hotels with people in it obviously, but i do think that that fury that people feel and i remember when people were in dubun remember when people were in dublin protesting the parnell square, the primary school there , square, the primary school there, and all those people were kept getting called far right and all stuff like this. and it was apparently. and i need to be careful because there's a few live cases going on. but you knew that there was a syrian man that had apparently been, you know, engaging with the police about an accused of doing the one in annecy. i think it was an algerian one that's going through the process in dublin. so then you have this fury. it's understandable. it's not michel. it's understandable. sure. >> but everything that you've said, everything you've said, michel , though, is precisely. michel, though, is precisely. look, and i wasn't there in the court and i haven't read a transcript as to what, for example, her defence lawyer put forward. but everything you've just said, a defence, by the way. >> well, actually, to be honest, that it's the wrong thing to

say. it's indefensible. but what i'm saying is that defence lawyers will always put forward like, i believe you just have quite passionately, is the sort of mitigating circumstances. >> there are always mitigating circumstances. you know, we've just had a, let's just say a major former television presenter who's just escaped a custodial sentence, in part because mental health was played as a particular card in those mitigating circumstances, avoided a custodial sentence . so avoided a custodial sentence. so i can see why your anger. i can see why lots of people would be angry, because it does play into this narrative that we have a two tiered justice system. my only kind of key point here was just around the fact that we either want a judicial system to have some flexibility. this judge has to account for what he has done. but as i say, i think the real reason for this is because unfortunately, she's been made an example of that's why she's got such a harsh custody should appeal . custody should appeal. >> i mean, she'd be the second woman. there was another lady, right? i agree, i agree the words dim and all the rest of it

are quite wrong. and the idea of passion. but passion can get you in a lot of trouble. coming out of a pub , can't it, when you're of a pub, can't it, when you're drunk. so you have to. you have to. she should not. she should have been charged, in my view, should have been charged. and actually she should have got the kind of sentence that you got for careless driving. frankly, there was no justification for this. >> what about a community order? >> what about a community order? >> like i owe a community order? i don't mind anything that is not custodial, custodial for custodial, for this, for basically a written not custodial, custodial for this, for basically a offence is completely wrong. and i'd like that judge. actually, he's never going to do it, but i'd like that judge to come on gb news and explain. well, why did i do it? was it for the point? that's being made really right by me, or that i know why he did it? because he was told, i don't know if you read what he said, if you read what he said, he basically turned round and said, well, you are a racist and what you were going to incite people and i'm going to jail you.theidea people and i'm going to jail you. the idea you be incited by the thousands of tweets that you see of this kind or equivalent

of this kind, is for the birds. so the guy, the judge to my mind, should actually he should actually stand aside for a while and think about whether actually he is in touch with the way people think or the way that the, the law works right now. i don't think so. >> i mean, look, i have to reiterate because i know how things get clipped up on social media and all the rest of it. i do not think you should be suggesting that people set fire to hotels with people in them. nursing minded individual would think that's okay. it's abhorrent, and i can't even imagine what those people in that hotel would have gone through. it would have been terrifying, i'm absolutely sure. but come on, every day of the week, i sit here telling you guys at home that yet another wrong and criminal has escaped justice. yet another wrong'un has avoided and come away with a suspended sentence. instead of being locked up, suspended sentence. instead of being locked up , because being locked up, because apparently these prisons are full to bursting and people we've seen them get released from prison early, they go out, they repeat crimes. but yet now, apparently we've got this prison

for space 31 years, or about 40% of that service sentence for this lady. and by the way, if we want to act on deterrence, why was that fella who was tweeting that muslims were getting acid attacked when there was no evidence at all of that? and the police were actually saying that that wasn't happening to the best of their knowledge. what about deterring that kind of behaviour? what happened there? >> well, here's a good question then, for coming out for 7:00. right. so starmer is massively in favour of this as a case. right. by the way. can't can't afford a taylor swift ticket or suits. but he did very well for himself while he was doing it for about 30 odd years of representing human rights. he was massively in favour of this. of these sentences, can we ask jenrick or can we ask badenoch? are you in favour of these sentences or would you like to see them having no sentences at all or very reduced sentences? and so it's a very good question. this is a big issue. so somebody, somebody like farage is quite clear on this. right. that this is this is an outrage. much of this. right. so it's a political issue. now starmer has made it a political

issue. >> but i've also been on this show right where we've discussed the just stop oil numpties, you know, and go and use criminal damage and throw soup over it. and you've been high fiving it and saying, isn't it great? they've got a custodial sentence. >> if they get i mean, if they get if they want to try and destroy a da vinci, right? i want to saying it's right. i'm just saying, look, in this case, they shouldn't she should never, even they shouldn't she should never, ever, ever have been jailed. and that judge needs to account himself to the public. >> let me and i'll respond, by the way, because i'm one of those people that have been high fiving the lengthy sentences that were given to a collection of just stop oil people. and i'll tell you for why those people had, in some cases, criminal records, as long as your arm for similar behaviour, some of them were out on bail for some of those previous behaviours, there was very long, prolonged intention behind what they were doing. they weren't just chucking a can of soup or something like that. they intended to bring this country down to an absolute halt by blocking the motorway networks

that would have affected health care, it would have affected food. all transport, logistics, you name it. that was such a serious crime. that's not the same as a mother, a bereaved mother at that. by the way, losing her mind temporarily with the absolute you can't comprehend what these little girls went through at that moment and i'm not justifying it. it was wrong. what she did, what she said was wrong. but what she said was wrong. but what i'm saying is, 31 months in prison for that, i find it embarrassing. sorry. i would be hanging my head in shame actually, if i was involved in some of that, i really would look, there is a concept in british law of sort of diminished responsibility. >> i think that should have been put forward as part of her defence, wasn't it? wasn't. it clearly wasn't. and just going back briefly to, i mean, because at the time, look, i agreed with those custodial sentences for those custodial sentences for those people, as you say, that tried to bring this country to a standstill, prevented, for example, grieving people from getting to hospitals to see their dying relatives. no one wants to go back to that or in

any way try to justify that. but, you know, again, i don't know the details of the exact case, but i do remember reading about one woman who didn't have about one woman who didn't have a prior criminal record, who has been sent to prison as a result of that. how long did she go? i don't know, i don't want to say on air, but the point is, you know, there are others in this situation. >> well look very strong feelings here, very different opinions here. and that will be reflected in your households at home as well. i'm absolutely sure. but get in touch. let me know your thoughts. there is lots i want to discuss with you liam payne. for example, what a tragic, senseless death. 31 years old. some people blaming the media. what do you think ?

hi there. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. kelvin mackenzie, the former editor of the sun ,

the former editor of the sun, and tom buick, the visiting professor of education at the university of staffordshire, remains alongside us. look at this , everybody. live pictures this, everybody. live pictures right now. you can see your countdown clock what, 13 and a bit. minutes to go. now until we cross live to the events that you've all been waiting for. we're certainly very excited about it here in this studio. speak for yourself . decision. speak for yourself. decision. okay. tom? yeah, he's he's playing hard to get tom. he's a labour man. he reckons he's not excited, but i bet secretly , excited, but i bet secretly, secretly looking at that countdown clock, i got more excited the other night with my daughters watching the elon musk rocket countdown going off and looking at that . looking at that. >> that was no, he didn't. >> that was no, he didn't. >> a minute ago in the break, he was saying to he was saying to us it looked really good and they wish he wished he could go with kelvin. you caught me out. so there you go. i caught him out. now don't listen to him. decision time. the race to lead, thatis decision time. the race to lead, that is at 7:00 tonight. exclusively here on gb news. now, a couple of things i want to ask you about. we talk about long term sickness. quite a lot, don't we. let's cut to the

chase. they've been suggesting sending job coaches into hospitals to try and help people. is that the time and the place? hospitals. >> well, something has to be done.theidea >> well, something has to be done. the idea that you are going to be better off by literally lying in bed all day, rather than doing 16 hours work, you'd be better off to the tune because of benefits. yes, because of benefits. yes, because of benefits. yes, because of disabled coaches in the hospital. >> that's what my specific question is. is that the right strategy or not? >> no, i wouldn't have thought so. 50. >> so. >> blimey, even for you, is it a step too far even for you? >> no, no, it's got no no idea of working. these people are lazy. no matter what encouragement you give to them , encouragement you give to them, they're not. >> then there's something wrong with them, isn't they? if they're in hospital. >> well, i don't know how wrong they are. most of them would have swapped swallowed black's medical dictionary. they know they know all the ways of creating symptoms . creating symptoms. >> kelvin tom buick i do sometimes wonder whether kelvin was actually the. in a previous life, the original draughter of the elizabethan poor law, because that's still how he speaksin because that's still how he speaks in the 21st century. look , speaks in the 21st century. look, it's a scandal that we've got 3 million people of working age in this country who have been

signed off sick. in fact, you know, if you look at our current unemployment rate, the jobseeker's allowance rate, it's quite low, isn't it? it's about 3 to 4%. but actually, if you look at the numbers on long term circuits, it's 6.6%. so actually if you added those two together we've got a double digits unemployment rate in this country. that's the kind of the way that i look at it. and really importantly , since 2020, really importantly, since 2020, we're spending £16 billion more a year now on this group than we were pre the pandemic. >> it's due to go to 100 billion by by the end of the decade. >> and talking about 100 billion kelvin, we're spending £102 billion just on debt interest in this country for the massive by the way, that's just about to come down. tories . well yeah. come down. tories. well yeah. well what by a few, a few. >> no it'll come down by quite still though. >> the annual budget of the department for education. right. but the point is this is yet another example of the waste the bills of economic and social failure. but what is the answer to the success? >> the answer to it. >> the answer to it. >> i'll tell you what the answer is. we've got to get away from,

for example, this stricter benefits regime, because this is what's happening, i think, in employment centres, you know, the people who are on jobseeker's allowance, what happens is you've got people who then get parked on the long term sick because they can't turn up every two weeks and give the proof that they're looking for work, because it's a work first sort of approach. i think we've got to build a far more holistic strategy around it. i don't want to sound like a bleeding heart. >> it's that kind of attitude which has led to everybody saying, i'll tell you what, i'll take my jobseeker's allowance money and i'll add pip onto the top of it right. money and i'll add pip onto the top of it right . and i'll put top of it right. and i'll put the whole lot together. and suddenly i am making so much money that even on 16 hours work, i cannot, i cannot, it's not in my interest to do it, to either cut benefits or we will have this discussion in a decade's time. >> but my point, calvin, is i wouldn't let them go on to pip or some of them anyway. those that obviously do, you know, through a gp assessment do need to go onto long term sick, got mental health issues, got substance abuse issues. they need intervention at an earlier stage. >> how can we have adhd,

depression, adhd, depression, anxiety and all the rest of it? if people want to pretend that they have it, or even if they have it in a little way, they've still got to go to work. work is the salvation of the working classes. as you well know, tom and i don't think you've done any work lately, so. >> but . well, i don't know, >> but. well, i don't know, sitting alongside you for an houn sitting alongside you for an hour. that's probably hard graft, isn't it? i'm having to . graft, isn't it? i'm having to. they can't pay me enough to do that. well, there you go. look, val, says, michelle, i just want to say that i do agree with the upset that lucy faced, but she says, you just can't go around writing stuff like that on social media. i hear you, val. pretty much everyone would agree. but whether or not 31 months is the right punishment, you guys will be the judge of. you're saying lots of you pretty much all of you, quite frankly, saying that 31 months in your opinion was way too harsh . but opinion was way too harsh. but again, i've got to say that that sentiment is coming through thick and fast , that no one thick and fast, that no one thinks it's okay, that you should be going around suggesting that people set fire to buildings, whatever buildings

they are , with people in it. they are, with people in it. lots of you asking what happened to the sentencing of that labour councillor who's been accused of saying things about slitting people's throats? well, that hasn't yet gone to trial. so that's why you haven't had an outcome on that one. look, you will have seen the horrific news regarding the one direction star liam payne 31 years of age. it stopped me in my tracks when i heard this last night. absolutely tragic. i've got to say though, kelvin , you know say though, kelvin, you know i don't have long left on the programme, but i do want to put this to you because a lot of people are saying that the media, particularly tabloid media, particularly tabloid media, are responsible for a lot of what happens to some of these young superstars. you edited a tabloid for a very long time. your thoughts had nothing to do with it. >> this guy was not well for a very long time, and i actually feel sorry for simon cowell getting a bucket load from somebody i'd never heard of before, who suddenly wants to put their name up in lights and saying that he and others in the show business area were responsible in some way for his death. actually, people like cowell and co actually put tens of hundreds of millions of dollars to this guy who may well

have gone down exactly the same route. but being being broke. so that was completely unfair. and so i it's terrible the guy should die, but it's nobody else's fault except his . else's fault except his. >> quite harsh. >> quite harsh. >> tom, i agree with calvin. i think you can blame the media for what is obviously a very tragic case. i just happened to stumble across actually on social media. quite a harrowing video this young man made just an hour actually, before, you know, he sadly lost his life. and it's just very clear that he's unwell. and, you know, it just makes me sad, actually, that when these sorts of things go out on social media, that there aren't those, you know, obviously it was a long way away in argentina. but, you know, i just sort of think to myself, if that was here in the uk, would someone have been able to see that he was clearly very unwell and would have got to him and i presume, i presume he's been very unwell for a very long time though, hasn't it? >> that seems to be the general. >> that seems to be the general. >> i saw the video that i think the same video that you're

referring to, to me, looked perfectly fine and happy and well, it actually stopped me. and one of the things that i found pretty grotesque, actually, is the lengths that people have been going to dig around to try and get dirt on this young man. people even posting images of his body as he lay there. i think it's an absolute disgrace, and i think everyone's got to take a moment to remember that this is somebody's son, brother, loved one. and of course, it's a little boy's daddy, seven year old little boy . today was old little boy. today was probably woken up to find the news that his daddy is no longer. and i think sometimes in the quest, in the search and the desperation to get those clicks, those hits, those headlines, whatever it is, i think people sometimes do forget that there's human beings behind those headlines, absolutely struggling. but look , obviously struggling. but look, obviously thoughts with his loved ones for now, though, tom, thank you very much for your company , kelvin much for your company, kelvin mackenzie, for you as well. with yours . i can't believe that i've yours. i can't believe that i've got to the point where even you think that sending job coaches into the hospital is perhaps a step too far, i think i might

need to lay down a new job. i think i need to lay him down at the back of this thing, put a cloth on his head and make sure he's all right. >> but it's a waste. it's a waste of time. >> that's all we've got, though. that's from us tonight. but look, do not go anywhere because the moment is about to begin. you've got generic ve badenoch live and exclusive here on gb news. do not miss it . news. do not miss it. >> we'll see a cold snap which will quickly develop into a warm front. boxt boiler repairs sponsors of weather on gb news . sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hi there, it's time for the latest update from the met office for gb news. clear spells overnight will lead to foggy conditions for many. by dawn , conditions for many. by dawn, and then it turns increasingly windy ahead of an unsettled weekend. low pressure is approaching for friday, but ahead of that, the isobars are actually opening out. that means

lighter winds overnight with clear spells , temperatures clear spells, temperatures falling away and with the relatively moist ground already in place , we're going to see in place, we're going to see mist and fog forming in many spots, but particularly central and eastern and southern england, east wales as well. so some poor visibility on the roads. first thing, a fresher start compared with recent mornings 5 to 9 celsius likely. but watch out if you are travelling during the morning there'll be some dense and widespread fog around. not everywhere will get the fog, but where it does occur could lead to some very poor visibility away from the fog. some sunny spells across parts of england and wales, central and eastern scotland. but for western scotland. but for western scotland already the first signs of more unsettled spell arriving with outbreaks of rain and a freshening wind . likewise for freshening wind. likewise for northern ireland, the first spell of rain moving in by 8 or 9 in the morning, it turns increasingly unsettled. then, across northwestern parts of the uk, with the strongest winds

expected in the northwest of scotland, accompanied by heavy rain and high tides, could lead to significant impacts during the day. once the fog clears across central and eastern parts, though, it's a fine afternoon in the midlands, eastern and southeastern england. sunny skies and 17 celsius, but a contrast by saturday morning as the rain moves east and it's a wet start to the weekend through the midlands and eastern england. the rain does slowly peel away, but it takes all day in some places, brighter skies arrive from the west, albeit with a few showers, and then later saturday a deep, low arrives from the atlantic, resulting in a very wet and very windy day. on sunday, a nice bright morning will generate a lovely warm day right through the evening. >> solar sponsors of

decision time, the race to lead. good evening. i'm christopher hope. please welcome kemi badenoch and robert jenrick . to badenoch and robert jenrick. to mish rahman. >> sukh anthony segaert love. you're here. thank you. >> tonight, both candidates face a grilling from this audience here in the heart of westminster as they battle for the right to lead the tory party. tonight's audience is made up of conservative party members , the conservative party members, the ones who will help decide the next leader in just 14 days time. it's been 85 days. yes, 85 days since campaigning started.

but now it's decision time.