boat crossings are up by small boat crossings are up by 23% compared to last year. he promised to close down asylum hotels, yet we find out today 6000 extra people are in those asylum hotels. keir starmer has no credibility on this issue, and what he announced today had almost no substance at to all it. >> the scottish government has announced all pensioners in scotland will receive a winter fuel payment next year from 2025. every pensioner in the country will receive the new benefit, with those in receipt of qualifying benefits like pension credit getting £200 or £300 depending on their age, and wealthier pensioners getting £100. it comes after both the uk and scottish governments earlier this year axed the universal winter fuel payment, except for those in receipt of pension credit or other means tested benefits . now vladimir putin credit or other means tested benefits. now vladimir putin has threatened to attack decision making centres in the ukrainian

capital of kyiv with the country's new ballistic missile, oresnik. the russian president made the threat hours after launching a comprehensive strike on ukraine's energy grid overnight. earlier , sir keir overnight. earlier, sir keir starmer spoke with ukraines president , volodymyr zelenskyy. president, volodymyr zelenskyy. zelenskyy described the assault as another act of russian air terror , with over 90 missiles terror, with over 90 missiles and nearly 100 drones targeting civilian infrastructure. the strike, which left 1 million homes without power, is the second in less than two weeks, raising concerns over a winter of crippling energy shortages back in the uk. two police officers have been served with misconduct notices after a 17 year old girl died fleeing a patrol car on the m5 motorway. tamsin hall, who was autistic, escaped the vehicle near bridgwater on the 11th of november, crossing into oncoming traffic. the independent office for police conduct is investigating how she managed to leave the vehicle while in

custody. a full inquest, potentially with a jury, is scheduled for next november. in other news, kirsty wark has accused greg wallace of making sexualised jokes during her time on celebrity masterchef in 2011. the former newsnight host is one of 13 people to have reported inappropriate comments from wallace over a 17 year period. wark claims that he shared jokes of a sexual nature in front of contestants and crew, which she felt were really, really in the wrong place. other allegations include wallace openly discussing his sex life and making inappropriate comments to female colleagues. the 60 year old stepped down from the cooking show as the bbc investigates the allegations . investigates the allegations. now former british soldier daniel khalife has been found guilty of spying for iran. prosecutors say he collected secret and sensitive information on uk special forces and

contacted iranian intelligence soon afterjoining contacted iranian intelligence soon after joining the contacted iranian intelligence soon afterjoining the army . soon afterjoining the army. after 23 hours of deliberation, the jury convicted khalife of breaching the official secrets act and the terrorism act, but he was cleared of a bomb hoax at his barracks. khalife escaped wandsworth prison in 2023, hiding under a food lorry, but was later caught and admitted breaking out. he claimed he wanted to be a double agent, but his lawyer dismissed it as more scooby doo than double oh seven. reform uk says its membership has soared to over 100,000, up from just 15,000 last year. party leader nigel farage slammed the tories and labour over what he called horrendous net migration figures, despite a 20% drop in the last year. and in a major announcement for the party, former conservative minister dame andrea jenkyns has joined and will stand as reforms

candidate for mayor of greater lincolnshire. and sir ed davey's swapping parliament for pop charts, hoping for christmas number one with love is enough, a charity single featuring baths philharmonia's young carers choir . love philharmonia's young carers choir. love is philharmonia's young carers choir . love is love . choir. love is love. the song, recorded with a full orchestra in 20 singers, was inspired by the lib dem leader's own experience as a teenage carer. davey says the single highlights the love and resilience of carers, and hopes it will strike a chord with families this festive season . those are the festive season. those are the latest gb news headlines. more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com/alerts .

or go to gbnews.com/alerts. thank you very much for that and good evening, everybody. welcome to the nigel farage show. nigel farage will be joining you in just a moment and i shall keep you company. in the meantime, we've got a lot to discuss. today's net migration figures. let's start with that. i'm joined by jonathan portes, the professor of economics at king's college london. good evening to you. these figures today we now know are nearly 1 million people. the net migration figure. we also know that the ons managed to spectacularly miscalculate the figure originally. what do you think to this error of calculation .7 first 7 up.7 >> well, the biggest single cause of that was because there were a substantial number of visas issued to ukrainians that the home office issued, and those ukrainians did indeed, quite legitimately come to the country. but for some reason, the home office and ons managed to miscommunicate . and so they

to miscommunicate. and so they weren't counted in the earlier figures. and that's pretty a pretty big up, i agree. exactly whose fault it is, we don't know, but we should emphasise, you know, these are people we wanted to give refugee status to effectively ukrainians. and we did the other errors or revisions mostly relate to this very difficult question of how you calculate how you work out of people who are admitted exactly when people leave, whether they switch to other visas, whether they've departed, because of course, people can depart without going through border control via northern ireland. so some of this is errors, some of it is simply the fact that all that you are always making, there's a bit of guesswork here, but certainly i think everybody agrees that ons and the home office need to do better in the future. in getting these numbers right. >> they most certainly do. so let's look at the numbers then. just shy of 1 million people. that's how many our population has increased by. what's your view on that figure?

>> well i think the first most important point is this was a really large temporary surge dnven really large temporary surge driven by what happened after the pandemic. and as a result of the pandemic. and as a result of the sort of labour shortages we had and the introduction of the new post—brexit immigration system and as you said, the figures have come down a reasonable amount in the latest figures. but if we look at the visa statistics, who were giving visas to now , they're clearly visas to now, they're clearly going to come down a lot more. so for example, a year ago we gave out 100,000 visas for health and care worker people to work in the nhs and care homes. in the last quarter, we only gave out 18,000, so that's a fall of 80% and that will feed through into the immigration numbers going forward. so the numbers going forward. so the numbers over the last few years have been historic by historic standards, really large. but we always knew they were going to be temporary and they are now falling quite fast. >> well, you say that they're

falling quite fast. i mean, these figures have a huge impact on the communities that people live , the culture of the live, the culture of the country. it's not just about bafic country. it's not just about basic economics. do you think on the whole migration to these kind of levels are net positive for a country? >> i think migration is certainly a net positive. and having a migration system that is reasonably liberal, it's flexible and lets people come here typically to work or study and sometimes as refugees is a huge net positive. i don't think that it makes much sense to talk about numbers like this, as if they were going to go on forever, because obviously they're not. we know they're not going to go on forever, and that probably would not be sustainable or beneficial . probably would not be sustainable or beneficial. but migration on the whole is positive. what we need to concentrate is making sure that the system going forward, not the system going forward, not the specific numbers, but the system is actually working for us and for the people who are coming . coming. >> and you say that you know that these figures are not going to go on forever. many people

will be sitting at home shouting at their screens that they don't believe that they've lost complete faith, that any government currently can get a handle of this . people in handle of this. people in society have consistently voted against increased migration. whether it was the brexit referendum and subsequent elections . since you think that elections. since you think that you're optimistic is what i'm heanng you're optimistic is what i'm hearing you say in terms of a system to bring it down, where do you get the optimism from based on the absolutely abysmal track record previously of governments? >> well, i mean, i point out it's very complicated to work out exactly what people voted for. vote leave promised a skill based migration system that didn't discriminate, but ended free movement. and it has ended . free movement. and it has ended. and a system that didn't discriminate between people from europe and the rest of the world. that's what we've got. bofis world. that's what we've got. boris johnson reiterated that promise and introduced such a system. now, that system has to led much higher levels of migration than most people anticipated, but that is in principle, what they voted for in terms of what happens now. as

i said, we can already see in the visa statistics the number of people coming under what's called the health and care visa within the skilled worker system has fallen by 80% compared to a year earlier. those are real numbers. that is, the actual numbers. that is, the actual number of visas were issuing for legal migration. so that is quite a big fall. so i think people can actually look at the statistics and say, yes, it went up statistics and say, yes, it went ”p by statistics and say, yes, it went up by a lot. it went up by a lot more than anyone expected. now it's falling and it will fall quite quickly in the next few years. i don't think there's any doubt about that. whether that's what's right for the country is a is a much wider debate. of course, whether we've got everything right about that system. there's still plenty of room for argument about that. >> yeah. i've got to say, as well, most people again, we've been promised caps of net migration in the tens of thousands. we've been. >> that was a really stupid idea, which well, let me ask you about that, because one of the things that our keir starmer was saying today, he's promising us

this white paper that will be coming imminently. >> so we were very light on detail today. he was asked a specific question by our political editor in terms of the caps, the volume, where do you think this level should be? keir starmer essentially dodged that question. so i'll ask you. you just said then caps are a pretty stupid idea at that level. so what kind of level, what kind of cap? how do we how do we figure this out? >> well, i think that the whole point is that caps are a really stupid idea. you heard chris philp saying keir starmer doesn't have a policy because he doesn't have a policy because he doesn't have a cap. well, david cameron had a cap in 2010. theresa may had a cap in 2016 and 2017. right. we have tried caps before. the conservatives have tried caps before and we are where we are. so anybody who thinks that a cap is some sort of magic solution is frankly delusional and so. well, i'm not sure. i don't know what's in keir starmer's white paper ehhen keir starmer's white paper either, and i don't know whether i'll agree with it. all i do

agree with him when he says that, that people who go thinking that somehow a cap is some sort of magic solution, that's going to make everybody happy and is going to automatically reduce net migration without damaging the economy, you know, that is delusional. and we should be quite clear that it's delusional in terms of numbers. what i would say is that the, you know, the numbers over the last few years have been clearly a big temporary surge that was unsustainable, and no system would have allowed that to carry on indefinitely. they are coming down and they will coming down. but we should fixate much less on numbers and much more on trying to work out well, what sort of system do we need? do we want, you know, care, work, people to come here to do care work? there are trade offs. there between paying people more, paying higher taxes in order to do that, or paying more to the people who look after your your elderly relatives and lower net migration. let's have a discussion about those trade offs rather than worrying about overall numbers. >> well, as you say, the devil

will be in the details, so we will be in the details, so we will wait to hear what that detail is. but for now, jonathan portes, the professor of economics at king's college london, thank you very much for your time. let's cross live, then back to nigel farage. nigel, a huge day then, for immigration figures. let's start with the fact that the ons managed to completely mess up these figures. what do you make to that ? to that? >> yes. i mean, the fact is that their original estimate of what 2013 2023 would be have now gone up 2013 2023 would be have now gone ”p by 2013 2023 would be have now gone up by 234,000. today's revision was the second revision, and then the lie that the numbers for 2024 are down by 20%. no, they're not down by 20% because of the revision that has happened before. and think about this. a conservative government that had won four general elections, committed to reducing net migration to tens of thousands a year in three of those four manifestos, gave us net migration of nearly 1 million. net migration of nearly

1 million people in one year. thatis 1 million people in one year. that is a complete breach of their election promises. it is a total betrayal of those that voted for brexit. and if you can't get a gp appointment, can't get a gp appointment, can't you can't get your kid into the local school, can't travel anywhere because of a traffic. wonder why new houses are being built all around you? well, that's because the conservative government did this. and for keir starmer to come out this afternoon with a live press conference to say we're going to sort the problem out, when clearly he has no intention to do so, makes you realise that actually the biggest division in this country between westminster and ordinary folk is on the exploding population of a jonathan port, is to say, you know, it's not about numbers, it is about numbers . and this massive numbers. and this massive increase in population has also made us all poorer, too. >> let's play devil's advocate, because i've got to say, nigel,

i don't share the optimism of the former guest there. he thinks it's definitely going to come down. that's a given. but let's just indulge that theory for a second, because one of the key tenants, one of the core tenants of reform uk, is about population management, border security , immigration control. security, immigration control. what about that? if we fast forward to five years time and miraculously , somehow keir miraculously, somehow keir starmer has managed to sort it all out, we've got minuscule net migration. where does that leave reform uk ? reform uk? >> he has no intention of doing so. and look, he told us on illegal migration that fewer people would be in hotels. and he boasted that planes were taking illegal immigrants out of the country . today's figures the country. today's figures showed the cost of asylum went up 36% last year, 36% to 5.38 billion. and that doesn't even count the cost of the manston processing centre or the aeroplanes or boats in the channel. every day and returns,

which normally from quarter two to quarter three go up because more people come during the summer months and more people get deported. returns went down. so already starmer is breaking the promises that he made, and also other big news from reform uk today is, well, dame andrea jenkins, you've announced her as a defection and an upcoming mayoral candidate. >> tell us more . >> tell us more. >> tell us more. >> yeah, i mean, andrea has been a very loyal tory mp. she very much hoped that robert jenrick would win the leadership election campaign because jenrick had very much come to my position. it was like a tribute act really, that we should leave the echr, reduce net migration to down pretty much zero. but of course he lost. kemi badenoch has won. she gave an absolutely farcical press conference yesterday afternoon and remember these figures today are the responsibility of that

conservative government. and mr andrews said, look, i think reform, you know, is where my heart is. so she's joined us and she will stand for us for the newly created position of mayor of greater lincolnshire and i think she's got a very good chance of winning . chance of winning. >> what would you say? i have to ask you as well. you've got andrew jenkins in one of the things that many gb news viewers have been in touch about is ben habib. what's happened there for anyone that's not followed that twist and turn? >> yeah, well that was the real champagne moment of the day. i mean, it was a good day, but ben habib announcing he's not with us really was the absolute icing on the cake. and look after the election, ben didn't get elected. other people did. and he and david bull had been the deputy leaders under richard tice. and i said, ben , david, tice. and i said, ben, david, i'm really sorry, but i want to make richard tice the deputy because he's in the house of commons. he will literally depufise commons. he will literally deputise for me when he's there. and i'm travelling around the country. and david bull accepted that and he's very much a part

of the organisation . and poor of the organisation. and poor old ben felt bitter about it and he's attacked me more in public than the labour party have. it's gone very bitter, very twisted. it's very sad. the fact that he's walked away, frankly, is a huge relief. >> well, there you go. look, nigel farage, i shall be handing back over to you to hand you the rest of the programme. there is so much that i know that you will be discussing, sir. look, everybody , you you know the everybody, you you know the drill on this programme. you can get in touch all the usual ways. tell us, what do you think to these figures this evening? as i've just said at the start of this programme, almost 1 million people have joined this country. how do we actually manage that ? how do we actually manage that? what do we do and how do you think it's affecting the area that you live in? we do want all of your views, all the usual ways to get in touch and tell us more. also on the programme, chagos island , what on earth is chagos island, what on earth is going on with that deal? there?

nigel, referencing yesterday that donald trump wants nothing to do with this one. if we hand over those islands so much to discuss. that's all

>> well, i'm sorry guys, we had a few technical problems, but we are on air. that's the main thing. now, look , these figures thing. now, look, these figures are absolutely mind blowing. they are extraordinary. the to change our country in every way is beyond belief. and now the cost of illegal immigration. and when you think about it, 5.38 million, without counting the everyday cost of the channel, the manston centre is something like 4 to 5 times the cost of what they want to save on the winter fuel allowance from pensioners and what they want to take away from farmers. it gives you a sense of perspective that perhaps government has got the

wrong priorities. and i'm joined now by tom pursglove and tom was the for minister legal migration, having previously been the minister for illegal migration. and in charge of borders during that period of 2324. now, before i speak to him, i want to confess, folks, he's a friend of mine, but i'm not very happy with him. tom, these figures, you know, you were the minister the government had promised in the 2010 manifesto. the 2015 manifesto with 2017 manifesto to reduce the numbers to tens of thousands a year. and here we find for one year it's nearly 1 million. is this not a complete betrayal of trust, of brexit and conservative voters ? conservative voters? >> well, i totally accept that those numbers were far too high. and when rishi sunak asked me to become the legal migration minister in december last year, i was given a very clear instruction that we had to bring

these numbers down drastically. now that ons figure that has been cited today in these reports is totally unacceptable. as i say. but there are also other figures that have been released by the home office that show that the reforms that james cleverly and i took forward are very dramatically, actually bringing visa grants down. so, for example, the health and care visa, what we've seen is an 85% reduction in main applicants when it comes to the skilled worker visa , a 32% fall. and worker visa, a 32% fall. and when it comes to for example, student dependent numbers, those are down by 84%. and that is materially relevant because it does show that at the point at which those levers have been pulled, it is making a difference. and that is the framework that brexit has allowed us to have. so there are some very strong foundations i think, that we can build on here to get these numbers vastly down, because you're right to say it's completely unacceptable, the position as it was, it is improved, but there's probably still a distance to travel. >> tom, it hasn't improved . even

>> tom, it hasn't improved. even if you tell me individual areas that have fallen, which you've just done and that's fine. i don't dispute what you've just said, but how if you've done those things, is the figure. and by the way, i expect it'll get revised up in six and 12 months time. how is it still net not gross net. three quarters of a million a year. >> well, the migration observatory have been very clear in saying that there has been on the back of those changes a very sharp fall in visa grants. but i always said, actually, you know, i was asked to take on this role back in december 2023 with that clear instruction to bring the numbers down. i always said that this was a step that we should take with those changes. labour have wound back some of those changes around the minimum income requirement for example, which i think is the wrong choice. they could change their position on that today to help bnng position on that today to help bring these numbers down. but there's other choices that can be taken. so i supported in the election the position around having annual caps. let

parliament decide what an appropriate level of immigration is, bearing in mind the skills that are needed in our economy and of course, our public services. to take a pragmatic view to this, you could look again at the graduate route. i personally believe very strongly and always have that we need a comprehensive labour market strategy, but there's choices there that can be made . i'm there that can be made. i'm sceptical about government and labour mps being interested in a number of those approaches, but what is also very, very clear is that the illegal migration picture makes it much harder to deal with this because you cannot separate the two. ultimately, the demand pressures and the pressures on public services, for example, are exacerbated by illegal migration and the strategy from the government to have no deterrent. of course, disastrous . of course, disastrous. >> okay. well, let's talk about illegal illegal immigration, right. you know, and you were the minister for illegal immigration before you got the legal job. ever since lydd airport , when boris johnson airport, when boris johnson stood there and said, we're launching the rwanda plan. and

rishi, as leader said, stop the boats. and james cleverly , boats. and james cleverly, stupidly said the numbers were coming down after a period of very bad weather. we've seen the numbers today, sure, since starmer came to power, 6000 more have gone into hotels. that's his problem. but going back to your period , the bill for your period, the bill for illegal migrants in the last year rose by 36%. and yesterday we had kemi badenoch, you know, robotically reading off an autocue, saying, we're going to get this sorted. why should anyone believe you guys ever ' 7 m. again? >> well, if we want to talk about my record, nigel, and you know that i'm very fond of you as well. and so these are not necessarily the easiest conversations for us to have . conversations for us to have. but the fact is, i took through the house of commons and through parliament, the nationality and borders act and the changes that were introduced through that legislation did a number of

things, but one of them was to make it a much more robust consideration of asylum claims. and again, the figures today show that that has made a very marked difference with the grant rate now falling to 52%, up from about 75%. so that is an important part of my legacy in terms of the framework to deal with these issues going forward. but again, i if i were the government, i don't see what they have to lose than to get on and say sorry to the rwandan government and operationalise that policy , because nothing can that policy, because nothing can be worse than seeing people lose their lives in the channel. i am absolutely convinced that we have to do something fundamentally different . it is fundamentally different. it is novel, but if we want to tackle this, you have to look outside the box. there is a policy there with a legislative basis. try it. what could be worse than people losing their lives in the way that we've seen? because if you haven't got that sort of policy intervention in place, all you're going to see is unlimited numbers of people arriving from various nationalities because you've got nowhere to remove them to, because you can't remove them

back to their country of origin. but if you've got a solution like rwanda, you can send people to that third country where in the end, ultimately, the rwandan government was saying that they would provide sanctuary for those people. and i think that, well, i tell you what, i look at this, i tell you what, tom , this, i tell you what, tom, fundamental plank of the policy that they've dismantled. >> if i take the premise , if >> if i take the premise, if i if i take the premise that rwanda could have worked. i also remember that the aeroplane was on the tarmac and an unnamed single judge , probably without single judge, probably without legal training in strasbourg, made an intervention that stopped that plane from leaving. let me ask you a last question. can we deal with illegal immigration if we stay part of the european convention on human rights ? rights? >> so i think it's quite clear that there is a real level of frustration and concern about the role that the echr plays in terms of deportations and removals from our country. i think we should be having

conversations about what can be done to address that. and we shouldn't rule anything out if it comes to it. and that situation cannot be resolved, then these are the options that we should carefully look at. but it seems to me that this is not just a challenge for us. it's a challenge for countries that are affected by this. and so actually, let's see if it's possible to negotiate that situation. let's see if we can resolve it. but if we can't then i would not personally rule out, for example, having a referendum or to take the step that's necessary to make sure that we can remove people who've got no right to be here and dangerous foreign criminals who pose a threat to people on our streets . threat to people on our streets. >> tom pursglove, thank you for joining us live here tonight on gb news. and tom there setting out his views. i personally think we're way beyond considering whether we should leave the echr. i think it's pretty clear that if we don't, we'll never sort any of this out. now, the prime minister and indeed the foreign secretary are big trouble on chagos deal chagos deal. i'll discuss

so the first big foreign policy announcement from this government was they wanted to give away the sovereignty of the chagos islands to mauritius, which is 1300 miles away. and it would've never had a proper legal claim over the islands. i did warn david lammy , the did warn david lammy, the foreign secretary, seven weeks ago. i said, well, you're doing this, but you don't know who's going to win the american election. on november the 5th. equally, there's been a general election in mauritius as well, and the new prime minister appears not to be so sure whether it's a good idea is labour's foreign policy falling to pieces before it even starts? i'm joined in the studio by susie stride, former political adviser to the labour party , and adviser to the labour party, and richard drax, former conservative member of parliament. richard, you've actually been to the chagos

islands? i understand. >> well, i wish i had. right, okay, i haven't, but as a former service man myself, yeah, i'm well aware of how vital strategically this island is to nato. quite apart from the us. understand that the president of the new president of america is very upset by this , because the very upset by this, because the chinese influence is clearly a threat. and i think it's a very rash move to rush into this, whether the island goes back to the mauritians is another moot point. but to rush into this like this is highly irresponsible in my view. >> very interesting . susie, >> very interesting. susie, a lot of labour veterans at mdl who was in the commons for nearly half a century, jeremy corbyn and i have got common cause on this. i never thought that would happen in the house of commons. >> they strange, very odd because what happens is the labour government removed all the native chagossians to make way for this. >> diego garcia base. but the chagossian community, who live in crawley, right next to gatwick because they hope they're going to get a plane back home soon, which is

extraordinary. after all these years, they've not even been consulted. they want to go back. they accept diego garcia, they'll set up, you know, home on the neighbouring islands. but they want to live under british rule rather than mauritian rule, because the mauritians have been actually quite racist towards them . and haven't labour got them. and haven't labour got this horribly wrong? >> i'm not going to say that labour have got this horribly wrong. i mean, i do have concerns in hearing some of this stuff about, you know, that they're more aligned with the chinese, which i think, you know, you know, i think there are that is concerning. and i think it is important, isn't to it, have military bases in strategic locations. however, at the same time, i think, you know, you know, if it's there, if it is their land, if it is part of their country, you know, mauritius have never had a legal claim over the islands. >> well, this this is a bad deal for britain, a bad deal for america, a bad deal for the chagossian people. and lamy, frankly, is playing student politics as if let's atone for our colonial past. >> i mean, look, i mean, just to

say, i'm definitely not one of those people that believe we need to atone for these things. and i think, i think that david lammy and, and keir starmer, there'll be a reason why they're doing this . and i you know, you doing this. and i you know, you can say maybe they don't have claim, but i mean it is the other side of the world. it is in the middle of the pacific ocean. i mean, what claim do we have over. >> hang on. we fought a war 40 years ago for the falkland islanders who wanted to be governed by us, not argentina . i governed by us, not argentina. i mean, there is a principle here. >> i mean, there is a principle. and i think that's different. i think i think, you know, with that there was a vote and they want us. i think this situation isn't the same. otherwise we wouldn't be doing this. >> we're doing it because of an obscure judgement by the international criminal court at the united nations. but it has no legal force. it was advisory. is this going to be the first big humiliation for starmer, the first of many masca humza yousaf. >> i mean, how many more mistakes has this man got to make? i mean, i just i'm make? i mean, ijust i'm absolutely staggered. i wish i was in the house in a way i

cannot believe a new labour government has had, what, 14 years to prepare for? government is making so many mistakes and this is just another one. >> let's move on to a much bigger, broader subject . every bigger, broader subject. every single person watching and listening right now to this programme who has got teenage kids or younger, is concerned about social media, is concerned about social media, is concerned about the access their kids have got via mobile phones. and if you're a parent that forbids your kid to have a mobile phone, well, that's pretty difficult given peer pressure and the way the world is now , the what? the the world is now, the what? the farage moment. the australians now , australia is a very now, australia is a very authoritarian country . some authoritarian country. some people say that australia. the problem with australia is not that it's full of former convicts and their descendants. it's full of former prison officers and their descendants, and they're very good at bossing people about. but they put a law in place that i think is worthy of debate . they're banning of debate. they're banning social for media all under 16 seconds. now, on the face of it, i can understand why there is an awful lot of very bad corrupting

influences that can happen to the minds of young people if they're under 16. but if you ban things, does it really stop them? susie, this is a huge subject, isn't it? >> it is. it is a huge subject. and i'm really for it. you know, i've spent 20 years of my life working with teenagers, working with kids in schools and in youth clubs and look, there's lots of fantastic things about social media. you know, i helped run a big campaign when albanians were being imprisoned and hanged. every third day, we ran a massive campaign. you couldn't have done it without twitter or x, as it were . but twitter or x, as it were. but you know, there is something about safeguarding children and i've worked in schools with kids with mental health needs. i've seen the effects the rise of mental health issues, self—harm . mental health issues, self—harm. >> do you think this is part of it? >> well, oh no, there is no doubt whatsoever. there's no debate about that. you bring in 100 kids now, they'll tell you, you know, you know, i'm having issues with my body because of images on instagram. i mean, i can tell i've heard that, you know, frequently from from young

girls and you know, the number of issues that, that and the way it affects young people, i think i think this is why. >> and richard, the problem is though, isn't it? you know, you ban it, but it's quite easy for one of the kids to get a phone with access to all this stuff. does banning things work? >> well, the trouble is you you ban booze. in america, the black market goes bananas. telephones are going to quadruple in price. i mean , like in my time in the i mean, like in my time in the commons, when you passed a law and people are crying for it, you pass a law. very few people think of the consequences of. and often it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut. i'm not saying this shouldn't be looked at. this is a very, very big issue. >> and in my time in the commons, would you rather youngsters didn't have access to this stuff? >> i would, i've definitely, without a doubt i it is very destructive and i've seen the figures of not least self—harm for young teenage girls go through the roof because of this and the children are bullying in schools. i mean, and quite apart from that, the and all the things that these youngsters can

now get access to it is it is really appalling. and when you go out to even supper, it's not just the young, it's our age. i've seen young married couple on a honeymoon sit there for 1.5 hours on their phones. no one talks. have you seen, have you seen the human communication is breaking down. that's what the issue is. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. that's so sad. and it invades our private sphere and all of it. yeah. you know, there are many things with social media that are fantastic, says he, with 5.5 million followers, and without which i wouldn't have a career. but the downsides are very, very big. whether the ban works, i'm open minded in a moment. why are transport for london charging people ulez charges who are going to hospital for advanced cancer treatment? plus, let's talk a little bit very quickly about the assisted dying debate that will take place in the house of commons tomorrow. perhaps the biggest, most contentious of backbench for 50 years,

as long time viewers of this show will know, i fought against les and particularly the ulez extension . what it seems now, extension. what it seems now, the whole thing has sunk to the sort of new depths of depravity. i'm joined by paul scully, former conservative member of parliament and somebody who has lobbied sadiq khan in the past to remove ulez cameras when they're in front of hospitals. paul they're in front of hospitals. paul, i'm reading a report here that, you know, cancer patients that, you know, cancer patients that are going in regularly for treatment and they've got cars that don't comply with ulez are racking up bills of £250 a month. but surely transport for london has promised to refund these people? yeah. >> i mean, like you, i was dead set against the extension of ulez to outer london, but since it was always going in, at least implement it sensibly. that was my call and i had the royal marsden cancer hospital in my area. there's one in chelsea, one in sutton, and it's 200

yards, 130 yards inside london. it's that close. so the first time you know, you're in your ulez thing is the camera and of course royal marsden doesn't serve just sutton people because you'd have been snapped by all manner of cameras by the time you got there. if you're a local resident, it's people from outside, people from the midlands, people from the south, people from the southwest that are coming in. it's a world renowned hospital. so just move the camera a few yards up and everyone was saying from the labour party saying, oh no, but you can get your money back, you can get the nhs and there is an nhs plan to get refunds, doesn't necessarily cover all the family and friends that are coming to visit you, but at least you as the patient and your direct family can get that. but, but it was always going to be incredibly onerous and here we are. i hate to do i told you so on such a major subject, but i told you so. these these are people. people are the most vulnerable. >> people are in a very stressful situation already. absolutely. so is the money being refunded or doesn't the system work? >> it's very slow. it's very

slow. they're not being told that they can and so they're not aware of the situation. they're not necessarily being told getting ulez charges without knowing they're coming. exactly. this is the thing. so the first they know about it is are the fines. and so there was a charity that had been working with one couple that were mentioned, one family that were mentioned, one family that were mentioned in in the story that actually eventually got two fines cancelled. but this just shouldn't be happening when you're going through one of the most horrible periods of your life that, i mean, we all know the royal marsden is world renowned as a cancer hospital. >> i'm astonished to hear about the camera. i'm going to give you 30s to make a direct appeal to sadiq khan. >> look, sadiq khan, please, for goodness sake, just absolutely. if you're going to continue with the madness, just do it in a sensible, proportionate way. these are people that really need your help. i've not seen a lot of that evidence, but i'm asking you one last time we're going to stick on contentious issues. >> tomorrow. sees a backbench private member's bill that i think is perhaps the most contentious that we've had, maybe even since the abortion debate going way back to 1967. it's on assisted dying now. we

are assured that safeguards are in place, that a judge will make a final decision, that a couple of doctors have to approve. my big concern is because of the european court of human rights. you might find cases being taught that begin to expand the law out. naturally, we all have sympathy. we all know people who've died in the most abysmal of circumstances, circumstances in which we would not allow our dogs or horses to go through. and i mean that because we have a huge emotional attachment to those animals. a huge emotional attachment to those animals . and yet i'm those animals. and yet i'm worried about this legislation. i'm worried about abuse. i'm worried about people being pressured into taking this decision. but gosh, richard, it's a difficult one, isn't it? >> it's a very difficult one. and it's an impassioned debate. and it's an impassioned debate. and were i in the house now, i'd vote against it. would you ? why? vote against it. would you? why? well, i heard a judge on radio four the other morning, and i thought, i don't still listen to the bbc, do you? >> well, i'm sadly sacrilege on

this channel. >> sadly i do, but a very good but on this particular interview it was interesting because the judge said we the judiciary, are very unhappy with this. we have not had an impact statement on this. we really we've got to judge something with the facts and they are concerned. how do they get the facts? how do they know that the person sitting there has made the right decision without coercion, without persuasion, without all kinds of things from family members or from friends or from anybody else? and that's to me, i think, a big and they should not rush this . this was pushed not rush this. this was pushed out by starmer. this is another classic starmer mistake. and you do not rush. you don't rush to. do you mean he's really don't he's using the backbencher kim leadbeater to put out a debate that he feels he wants to support. regrettably, i think it's certainly in my time. controversial issues were pushed out by backbenchers , not the out by backbenchers, not the main party leaders, because it was seen as a backbencher. >> well, this one is this one is really controversial. susie, how do you feel on this issue?

>> i mean, likewise, you know, i think if i was an mp, i would be voting against this, but i, i fully understand look, it's such a serious issue and i have, you know, you can't not but have compassion, you know, but you know, i think of my 92 year old grandma and i think of people in that vulnerable situation, and you don't know whether, you know, they would make decisions thinking, oh, i might be saving my family money or the nhs money or whatever. and i also just think it is a slippery slope. and i say that cautiously, just because i understand that people have really strong feelings on this. but i have strong feelings too, and i definitely would be voting against and i hope it doesn't go through. >> i really do well, i don't know what's going to happen on this. it's a difficult one. paul this. it's a difficult one. paul. you're not in the commons anymore. i mean , i'm going to anymore. i mean, i'm going to sit there. i am going to sit there and listen to the arguments. and this is maybe in some ways tomorrow we might see parliament at its best. >> you often do with matters of conscience like this. i would vote for it. i voted for it last

time it came to parliament in 2015, and i think what the thing about it being rushed as the argument that's been there. keir starmer can change that because these things are usually introduced by private members. bill, when it's a free vote like that on these kind of issues like abortion etc. what he can then do is give it government time. he can adopt it and give it give them more time to get those debates. the argument for it is that you put this through to have a bigger, broader debate. >> the argument against this no impact assessment that's been donein impact assessment that's been done in terms of the impact on the judiciary or indeed divisions within the medical profession. but you say for you're it in principle, but you'd like to see more detail. >> well, i think you have to have the detail for the reasons that have been said, because you have to give as much reassurance as you can. but i'm just very much your opening statement about this, about how we treat our pets compared to how we treat our. i know i know, our most vulnerable. >> i mean, i'll be frank with you, paul, if i was in, you know, if i had something awful, you know, like motor neurone disease or i don't know what it

would be, i think i'd reach a point myself where i'd want to be able to press a button. and that's the hard part here, isn't it? >> i've just seen in recent months a very good friend of mine die of motor neurone disease. i've seen it firsthand. it's horrible. it is horrible. but i know this man who used a laptop to communicate with us, right? to the end. i know for a fact, because he wanted to live and see his wife and his grandchildren for as long as he could. i know that man would neven could. i know that man would never, ever have said , i want to never, ever have said, i want to take my own life, which is why it needs to be tight. >> that's why it needs to be tight to actually, you know, because there are others in different position. so as long as it is done in a tight way, a restricted way that doesn't allow for the slippery slope that he was talking about. but it's difficult. >> i tell you what, who needs a debate in parliament when i've got these wonderful people here in the studio with me live on gb news, where we discuss absolutely everything as openly and as honestly as we possibly can. but we always treat you, the viewer and the listener with absolute respect. you listen to

us, but you make your own minds up. i'm off. let's have a look at the all important weather. >> even though we'll see a cloudy start, it'll be a bright outlook for the rest of the day. boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news. >> time for a weather update from the met office here on gb news. a little bit of mist and fog around this evening. overall though, won't be as cold as last night, not as frosty and most places are going to be dry. there's some pretty wet weather coming into western scotland thanks to these weather fronts pushing north. high pressure sitting across eastern england. that's where we've got the light winds . that's where the fog is winds. that's where the fog is quite thick this evening. parts of lincolnshire down into east anglia, a few patches elsewhere to generally clearing, though, as the night goes on because the breeze will pick up staying 509931, breeze will pick up staying soggy, though across northern scotland, rain across the western isles may ease , but western isles may ease, but staying very wet across parts of orkney and shetland. most places that will have a dry night. not

as frosty as last night, for sure. still pretty chilly first thing tomorrow across eastern england we'll have that cloud and rain still across orkney and shetland . early doors that shetland. early doors that should be scooting away to the north. nothing like as cold as this morning across scotland , this morning across scotland, most places will start above freezing. quite gusty though , freezing. quite gusty though, across the west coast and at times across the north—east. quite blustery conditions here dunng quite blustery conditions here during the day. a bit more of a lighter wind further south, but just enough breeze, say to clear away that fog this evening so it should be a fine start across much of eastern england staying dry and bright here for most of the day in the west. we'll see that cloud thickening the breeze, picking up blustery conditions in western scotland at times for northern ireland and northeast scotland too. and you can see rain coming in here as well. so turning damp for northern ireland. western scotland but a showery rain for the west coast of wales, devon and cornwall by the end of the day. but look at the numbers here. we could see temperatures into the teens. another pretty chilly feeling day across the east by the weekend though, it's

going to be much milder everywhere. quite a lot of cloud around. could see some sunny spells coming through north—east england at times north—east scotland, but a showery rain moving across scotland for a time. but again, most places will be dry. but temperatures on the rise double digits everywhere in some places into the teens on saturday and similar temperatures to sunday. >> we'll see a cold snap, which will quickly develop into a warm front. boxt boiler sponsoi's sponsors of weather on

>> hello, it's me christopher hope gb news, political editor, standing in for sir jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight. >> the previous government were running an open borders experiment . experiment. >> that's right. the figures are in. net migration into the uk hit a record high of. get this .

hit a record high of. get this. nearly 1 million people hit a record high of. get this. nearly1 million people last nearly 1 million people last yeah nearly 1 million people last year. and while numbers are down for this year, they're still at more than 700,000. tonight, i'll be speaking to former home secretary suella braverman, who has said the reduction is because of the policies she was pushing for when in government. plus, reform uk has announced that former tory mp dame andrea jenkins is its new surprise candidate for lincolnshire mayor. meanwhile, the assisted dying bill is to be voted on tomorrow night as nigel farage was saying after my interviews with a tory mp and a labour mp on it for chopper's political podcast will be debating that topic. plus, after closure of centuries old smithfield and billingsgate markets in london, icaught billingsgate markets in london, i caught up with city of london councillor and lawyerjames councillor and lawyer james tonbridge, who voted against that controversial decision. state of the nation starts right now .

how. now. i'll also be joined by my panel gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson, and the journalist and conservative peer paul goodman. the email remains the same. mail @gbnews .com. send me your thoughts about immigration, assisted suicide and smithfield and billingsgate markets. but first, here are the headlines with sophia wenzler. >> chris thank you. good evening. it'sjust >> chris thank you. good evening. it's just gone. 8:00. these are your headlines . we these are your headlines. we start with some breaking news. the transport secretary has admitted pleading guilty to an offence connected with misleading the police, while a parliamentary candidate in 2014, the times newspaper is reporting louise hay was convicted of fraud after a police

investigation involving stolen and