will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines right now. >> this show is all about opinion. it's mine, it's theirs. and of course it's yours. we'll be debating, discussing and at times we will disagree, but no one will be cancelled. >> so joining me today , >> so joining me today, political commentator andy williams and also broadcast columnist lizzie cundy . columnist lizzie cundy. >> coming up in my niggle at 4:00, i take on louise haigh head on. there's more to this than meets the eye. if nothing's changed, why should she have resigned? apparently, to according her, she told keir starmer everything in 2020. but recollections may vary. so do you trust sir keir starmer's judgement? i've got to pull up on asking just that. >> the game is up. >> the game is up. >> you cannot be a law maker and a law breaker , so if that's the a law breaker, so if that's the case, why did he give her a job in the first place? >> then in my great british debate this hour, i'm asking, do you worry an assisted dying bill could be open to abuse now. the

legislation cleared its first hurdle after the commons voted by a majority of 55 in favour. what is your view, then, in difficult conversations with world aids day approaches, i'll be joined by a british gay human rights activist , philip baldwin. rights activist, philip baldwin. he was just 24 when he was diagnosed with hiv , and prince diagnosed with hiv, and prince william let slip some personal views at the tusk conservation awards this week . and 11 will be awards this week. and 11 will be here to bring us up to date with all things royal. but before we get started, let's get your latest news with lewis mackenzie . latest news with lewis mackenzie. >> thank you very much, nala. good afternoon. it's just after 3:00. here are your latest headunes 3:00. here are your latest headlines from the gb newsroom. assisted dying could become legal in england and wales after the bill was backed by mps in a historic vote. >> the ayes to the right 330. the noes to the left, 275. the ayes have it. the ayes have it. alok. >> kim. leadbeater's bill

received 330 eyes, compared to 275 noes at its second reading in the house of commons. a majority of 55, with the prime minister, sir keir starmer, among those who voted in favour of the bill. it would allow adults with just six months left to live to request medical assistance to end their lives. kim leadbeater says there is absolutely still a lot of work to do on assisted dying proposals and slight changes to the bill are part of the process. last night's result means the legislation will now progress to the committee stage for scrutiny, with the lords also being given opportunities to express their views on the measures before it potentially becomes law . president volodymyr becomes law. president volodymyr zelenskyy has suggested that parts of ukraine under his control should be taken under the umbrella of nato to try and stop the hot phase of the war. dufing stop the hot phase of the war. during an interview, the ukrainian president was asked whether he would accept nato

membership, but only on the territory that kyiv currently holds. he said he would , but holds. he said he would, but only if nato members sorry, nato membership was offered to the whole of ukraine within its internationally recognised borders first. however, so far president putin has given no indication that he's abandoned his desire to subjugate ukraine in its entirety. meanwhile, last night, the ukrainian foreign minister urged his nato counterparts to issue an invitation to kyiv at a meeting invitation to kyiv at a meeting in brussels this week to join the western military alliance . the western military alliance. accusations have been made against tv presenter gregg wallace in the wake of his stepping away from hosting masterchef, while a review into complaints is carried out. penny lancaster is prepared to speak with authorities regarding her experiences with mr wallace on

celebrity masterchef following his recent departure. the sun reports three different women are now also accusing mr wallace of groping. production company banijay uk says it has launched an external review , with wallace an external review, with wallace fully cooperating the investigation. his lawyers insist highly false, saying the suggestion that wallace , who has suggestion that wallace, who has presented the popular bbc one cooking show alongside john torode since 2005, engages in behaviour of sexual, sexually harassing nature, was entirely false . a memorial service has false. a memorial service has been held today for former first minister of scotland alex salmond. his wife of more than 40 years and supporters arranged a remembrance service for him on saint andrew's day. mr salmond died last month in north macedonia at the age of 69. he was at a conference when he suffered a heart attack and was

buned suffered a heart attack and was buried in a private family ceremony near his home in aberdeenshire at the end of october. a plane, which experienced a serious incident in october of last year is said to have nearly 200 people on board, at risk of developing hypoxia, a potentially fatal condition. the aircraft has been en route was en route to kos in greece after departing manchester airport when an oversight from both pilots led to two crucial engine systems not being turned on, resulting in the loss of pressure within the cabin. a report from the air accidents investigation branch says the loss of pressure could be significant enough to affect cognitive performance. three days later. the same aircraft veered off the runway at leeds, bradford, leeds, bradford airport. gb news has contacted tui for comment . today marks 150 tui for comment. today marks 150 years since the birth of winston

churchill. born in 1874, the wartime prime minister led the country during its darkest hour. churchill led britain to victory in world war ii over adolf hitler's nazi germany . and hitler's nazi germany. and finally, more than 100 dogs dressed in christmas jumpers joined a festival parade in central london in support of rescue charities. an estimated 130 pets made their way from saint james's park down the mall towards buckingham palace, with their owners this morning. the event was organised by rescue dogs of london and friends to raise funds for hungry hearts dog rescue and zem rescues, which rehome dogs from overseas. pfizes which rehome dogs from overseas. prizes were, of course, given to the best dressed pets in green park, next to the palace . well, park, next to the palace. well, those have been your latest gb news headlines for now. i'm lewis mackenzie. there's more from me in half an hour's time.

>> thank you lewis. welcome. it's just fast approaching. eight minutes after 3:00. this is gb news. >> we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua. >> coming up, we'll be crossing live to newbury, where any minute now, the winner of the coral gold cup will be revealed. jack carson is on the ground, ready to bring us the latest reaction. then in the great british debate this hour. i'm asking, do you worry an assisted dying bill could be open to abuse. the legislation cleared its first hurdle after the commons voted by a majority of 55 in favour. then, from there, another great british debate. i'll be asking should louise haigh have resigned? apparently, according to her, she told sir keir starmer everything in 2020. but recollections may vary. the and prince philip, prince william sorry let slip some personal news at the tusk conservation awards this week, and 11 will be here to bring us up to date with all things royal thatis up to date with all things royal that is coming up as ever. send me your thoughts, post your comments gbnews.com/yoursay .

comments gbnews.com/yoursay. right, so the coral winter festival is taking place at newbury racecourse today. the festival is set to feature one of the country's most prestigious jump races in the racing calendar, the coral gold cup. our reporter jack carson racing calendar, the coral gold cup. our reporterjack carson is cup. our reporter jack carson is there right now . so jack carson there right now. so jack carson talk to me about this race and why it's so important. and have we got any news yet? >> well, you've just missed the big roar of the crowd because we've just got the winner of the gold cup in the race to which everyone's been waiting for today and can do. kid has won the 3:00, the gold cup here at newbury. you know, it's been a fantastic atmosphere. 12,000 people watching on. and actually, funny enough, we spoke to paul nicholls, candy kid's trainer, a little bit earlier on. he was telling us that he was feeling a little bit confident. our racing expert is with us for the day, of course. friend of the channel as well,

phil davis. i mean, we spoke to paul nicholls. he was feeling a little bit confident, maybe hadnt little bit confident, maybe hadn't had the greatest start, you know, with the earlier races today. but you know he's pulled it out of the bag really right at the end there. >> he saved the best till last hasn't he. but gb news viewers get all the best information don't they. we spoke to paul nicholls earlier. he said he was confident of a big run and can do. kids just gone and won the big race of the day. second was broadway boy again really well fancied and third, which we mentioned earlier this morning. victorino came from a mile back to finish third, so all all the first three were all fancied horses. but paul nicholls, 14 times champion trainer , that's times champion trainer, that's why he's 14 times champion trainer, because he can pull them out of the fire like that. this is it. >> you know, there's so many factors that i guess that come into a race. you know, you can't help things like the weather and the way the ground is. but i guess you can prepare a horse in a way, which means, you know, it can deal with every situation and deal, you know, whether it's and deal, you know, whether it's a tight race or whether you need that last little bit, you know, on the, on the, on the final , on on the, on the, on the final, on the final length. and, you know, we've seen just that. it wasn't really a close at the end, you know, started to pull out a bit

of a lead. by the time they got to the line. >> yeah i mean look paul nicholls has got gallops that are really, really steep. he gets his horses really, really fit. and he's renowned for being a brilliant target trainer. if he targets a horse at a particular race, you can be absolutely sure it will be 100% cherry ripe for that particular race. this horse has been laid out for this race by paul nicholls. it's been absolutely as fit as a flea and it's won fairly easily. in the end. it could go on to better things. >> all right phil, thank you so much for joining >> all right phil, thank you so much forjoining us today. it's much for joining us today. it's been fantastic to have you as our racing expert here at newbury. it's been a fantastic atmosphere and there we go. can do kid winning the gold cup here at newbury. >> all right jack carson thank you very much. if you just tuned in. welcome. it's fast approaching 11 minutes after 3:00. this is gb news. we are britain's news channel now of course the big news yesterday assisted dying was one step closer to becoming legal in england and wales after mps backed the bill in an historic vote. the vote followed 4.5 hours of debate, which i personally don't think is long enough for such an important issue. there were only 330 mps voting in favour and just 275

opposing it. so joining me now is roger greene , deputy chief is roger greene, deputy chief executive officer of bereavement charity, at a loss. okay, so i just you know, i want to get your thoughts on this. roger, do your thoughts on this. roger, do you feel that this assisted dying bill is the right thing and that it went the right way yesterday? >> well, yeah. >> well, yeah. >> i mean, to just make it clear at the beginning that as a charity at a loss, we're really about bereavement support . about bereavement support. >> so to be honest with you, we're taking a kind of a neutral view around the causes of the death. and, you know , assisted death. and, you know, assisted dying is a is a cause of death, much like, you know, other causes of death, natural causes or otherwise. so i think it's important to state that from the outset , in important to state that from the outset, in terms of important to state that from the outset , in terms of the important to state that from the outset, in terms of the bill itself, what it clearly aims to do is it's aimed at those specifically who are dying. and to make that pathway much easier and more peaceful for them. and

because of that, it does have, you know, stringent safeguards around it from the learning in other parts of the world. and our point around grief and bereavement is that that when it is planned in some ways in that way or it is a peaceful death that makes the grief itself much eafien that makes the grief itself much easier, traumatic deaths are very hard to grieve, whereas peaceful deaths, whereas, you know, the family or carers have been taken into account and they've had their opportunities to say goodbyes and conversations that have needed to be, you know, to take place that makes grief that much eafien that makes grief that much easier. because what is absolutely certain is that in these in these circumstances, there will be grief and there will be a sense of bereavement for lots of people associated with the individual concerned. and in that respect , what we're and in that respect, what we're looking for, i guess, is through the committee and the lord stages for the bill to be

developed, because what it doesn't do at the moment is take account of the considerations of the family or carers. and we think that's a really important bit of safeguard to build in, but also to enable their grief and the experience of bereavement to be that much better. you know, let's face it, death is, is, is death and it's, it's it will generate grief. it will generate that, that kind of sense of bereavement. but when people have had some say in the way of that, not necessarily having the, you know, the final say or whatever, but an engagement in it along the way, we think that is really important to bring into the conversation . we'd like to see conversation. we'd like to see some safeguards built around that. >> yeah. you said that we'd like to see some safeguards if we are going to do this sort of thing. i feel it's a little back to front, don't you? you're bringing in something where? well, the safeguards are

absolutely not in place. the cps is not in place. the crown prosecution service, they can't get anything done within six months. so i'm wondering, and if you've ever used the crown prosecution service or any specific thing. so for example, the family courts , you'll be the family courts, you'll be lucky if the judge even actually reads what you have put in place. and i know from personal experience. so if you're saying that i'm wondering why you mentioned safeguards, surely they should be the priority first before the bill. >> absolutely . there should be >> absolutely. there should be safeguards in place that the system itself needs to be well established to be able to deal with those safeguards. and we talked i mean, there's been a lot of debate, for example, hasn't there, around the whole role of palliative care. our point would be that, i mean, as i've said earlier, we're kind of neutral around our stance on the bill. but with that neutrality, because our job, our role as a charity is around bereavement support and supporting people in whatever circumstances. the death might be. and this is

another circumstance for death. so there's safeguards and processes absolutely need to be built into place. the system having the capacity to deliver them, of course, is then a responsibility of parliament of to parliament deliver. and that has to be an accountability of that to make sure that, yes, it is done in the right way. >> okay. all right. roger, thank you for your thoughts. appreciated that . really, really appreciated that. really, really good to talk to you. thank you so much. that is of course, roger green. he's the deputy chief executive officer of bereavement charity at a loss. well joining me now is writer jenny holland. jenny, you've heard what roger had to say. he said that they're not really taking a stance. he said it's neutral. but to me he didn't sound neutral . it sounded like sound neutral. it sounded like he's saying that if people have a better death in terms of some assistance, then everybody around will feel better because they're all kind of forewarned is forearmed. so to me, that sounded slightly in favour of it. but jenny, where do you stand with it? >> well, on that particular point, i think that's kind of an oddidea

point, i think that's kind of an odd idea that , you know, you can odd idea that, you know, you can micromanage this very painful process of losing a loved one. >> my own father died of cancer 20 years ago, and whilst in some ways it happened quite quickly over a matter of two short months , you know, a death is a months, you know, a death is a death . and while they're death. and while they're mitigating circumstances, it's never going to be something that the state should have a say in that to me is the biggest problem with this. i mean, you know, whilst someone like roger is coming from a place of compassion , i think that the compassion, i think that the bill itself, the entire movement being pushed, in fact , by the being pushed, in fact, by the government is just the most glaring , government is just the most glaring, honking, screaming, wait, red flag? because what you have is a conflict of interest . have is a conflict of interest. if you have a large , powerful, if you have a large, powerful, extremely well—funded in many ways , government institution ways, government institution

thatis ways, government institution that is not able to meet its primary duty of care, and you're giving them the power then to offer as a solution, killing its own patients . so instead of own patients. so instead of being able to give being given power to cure them, they're going to be now you're giving the nhs the option to suggest , the nhs the option to suggest, politely, that they just kill themselves . themselves. >> so you're saying, i think this is a disaster. do you think that could suggest lack of investment in conditions that could potentially be cured if we were to invest time and energy in them? but if you can just if people can just go, oh, well, you know, there is the option that you could just get out of this because the ending isn't great. that actually a lot of medical companies and people like that won't invest in trying to keep people alive. >> i mean, you'd like to think that they will anyway, because it's in everyone's best interest . it's in everyone's best interest. but i think that it's a managerial issue and death should never, ever, ever, ever become a managerial issue. that's a dystopian horror story . that's a dystopian horror story. the process itself. i mean, what

what i find puzzling too, is why is it a six months diagnosis? surely six months is something thatis surely six months is something that is a let the process unfold naturally , offer support, naturally, offer support, whether through charities and palliative care , or better yet, palliative care, or better yet, state funded sort of access to the health care system, that which we all pay an enormous amount of taxes for and do it in this very kind of natural way. i don't understand why we have to take steps to actively rubber stamp and sort of shuffle along in a bureaucratic process. death. this is crazy. this is crazy. >> will somebody i mean, they would argue that actually you're sparing somebody the suffering. and if it were an animal, we would do the same thing you've got about 30s if you could let me know your thoughts on that. >> well, we're not i mean , we're >> well, we're not i mean, we're not animals. we're biologically speaking , perhaps, but i mean, speaking, perhaps, but i mean, i would just point to places like canada and oregon that, you know ,

canada and oregon that, you know, started out with very high minded , compassion based minded, compassion based arguments, and now you have people who can't pay rent or who've had trans surgeries that went wrong. and the medical solution offered to them is literally kill yourself . and literally kill yourself. and that's horrifying. and it should never happen. all right. >> well , listen, jenny, never happen. all right. >> well, listen, jenny, thank you very much. really good to talk to you. that is writer jenny holland with her views or you're with me. i'm nana akua. this is gb news. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. coming up. should louise haigh have resigned? but next, do you worry an assisted dying bill could be open to abuse. this is gb

good afternoon. 22 minutes after 3:00. welcome. this is gb news. we are britain's news channel. i'm nana akua. don't forget to send me your thoughts. post your comments gb news. com send me your thoughts. post your comments gb news . com forward comments gb news. com forward slash your save. but now it is time for the great british

debate. this hour i'm asking, do you worry that an assisted dying bill could be open to abuse? now mps voted in principle to allow the terminally ill to get help ending their lives, with 330 mps backing the move . but doubts backing the move. but doubts remain over the safeguards for the vulnerable. so for the great british debate this hour, i'm asking do you worry an assisted dying bill could be open to abuse? well, joining me now , abuse? well, joining me now, broadcaster and columnist lizzie cundy and also political commentator andy williams. all right lizzie cundy i'm going to start with you. assisted dying a lot of people, you know, kim ledbetter punching the air, getting all excited, really pleased the legislation has gone through. i'm concerned. what are your thoughts? >> it's actually i watched it and i was very emotional listening to all the stories i really was. and i myself am a christian. i believe god gave us life and i, as you know, was with my friend who sadly passed away in my arms at the age of 27, and she had cystic fibrosis and had the most awful pain i had, you know, lung infection,

lung collapses, had to do nebulisers three times a day and life was really tough. >> and it was. and she was in terrible pain. but she used to say to me, each breath is a gift. and you know, and she wanted to live . so for me, hearing the live. so for me, hearing the stories is very emotional. and i've also had another friend that had terrible cancer and just didn't want her kids to see her like that and wish to pass away . so it's very, you know, it away. so it's very, you know, it pulls at your heartstrings because what would you do in their place? but something in me just is worried about this . and just is worried about this. and i think it's been rushed to too quickly and what worries me, particularly in the elderly, if they feel they're a burden to their families and say, look, maybe this will be the answer, so i won't be a burden to you anymore and be costing you. so i think we need to have more robust controls in this, and thatis robust controls in this, and that is my worry. right. >> but what your, your the person who had died of cystic fibrosis. very sad. yeah. how long ago was that? >> so we you know, this is now

15 years ago and there isn't a day i don't go without thinking of because, you know, now they have an incredible drug for people with cystic fibrosis, which can almost make them as though they haven't got it. >> and i know somebody who's taking that drug. and the thing is, if this person had gone with this assisted dying thing, had they been in that window where that drug was invented, they would have missed the opportunity to be. >> exactly. they would have the opportunity where that, you know, they may have said, look, we'll go for this option, and i don't want to be in pain anymore. but then they would have missed out on having this wonder drug that could have made their life so much more bearable . their life so much more bearable. but i've seen real pain and i've seen real death . and for me, seen real death. and for me, watching this, i was very, very emotional. and i feel emotional now talking about it, but it worries me and i feel there needs to be more robust controls in this. >> andy williams so instinctively, this is something i'm in favour of. >> i think there are some limited circumstances where people who are terminally ill and for whom there's no way back, and who are in immense

pain should have at least that option. if the right safeguards are put in place. so on paper , i are put in place. so on paper, i was looking at this issue when it first came up and thought, this is something i'd be enthusiastically backing . enthusiastically backing. actually, i do have concerns. some of which lizzie has touched on, which is that firstly , there on, which is that firstly, there hasn't been a great deal of debate among parliamentarians . debate among parliamentarians. five hours is no time. private members bill, one of my former colleagues, my first boss, who is like the leading legislative expert in the uk , she has been expert in the uk, she has been saying very, very forcefully, you know , you cut five hours of you know, you cut five hours of debate is no time at all. and that a private member's bill is not the right mechanism. >> a couple of minutes for this bill. >> yeah, a couple of minutes each for anybody who wants to speak. so if i was an mp, would ihave speak. so if i was an mp, would i have voted for this? i would have been really, really torn because you're not voting on the principle. you're voting on the actuality of the bill. my understanding is that the safeguards in this bill are stronger and more robust than two doctors, two doctors, and

that's, well, two doctors and a judge. i think i'm right in saying that you have to see the crown prosecution service. well, i haven't had to, you know, but but i'm obviously aware of the absolute state it's in. >> it's actually impossible, this bill. and i mean, i'm dead set against it and no pun intended, to be honest with you, because i'm listening and i'm thinking they know. and we know that the crown prosecution service is not up to scratch to even handle this. it takes a minimum of at least six months to get anything through. so i'm wondering how on earth they are going to manage somebody who may have six months to live. and let's not forget that a doctor cannot accurately predict how long someone has left to live. >> so i think that's a really good point. and actually, one of the major objections to the bill is, well , our the major objections to the bill is, well, our court system the major objections to the bill is, well , our court system can't is, well, our court system can't handle it. our health service can't handle it. we're introducing a new burden on doctors. i know that doctors won't be forced to comply. it will be an opt in. but you're introducing a whole new set of burdens on two systems that are already creaking. what i would say to that is you can't just

use the excuse of having broken systems not to do. well, no, no, no, no, i know, and that's what. >> but that's a reality. and thatis >> but that's a reality. and that is what is in place. >> and that's what wes streeting has been saying. right. so again, i say i'm torn , but i again, i say i'm torn, but i don't think it's good enough to just go, well, that's not working. so we can't do this. so it's really complicated. >> i've got a great point. the six months terminally ill, my friend who i've just spoke about was told she'd only lived till 14. she lived until 27 years old. so you can't put, you know, a month or a time on someone's life because everyone is different. and this is and it is a slippery slope. i'm sorry. different. and this is and it is a slippery slope. i'm sorry . and a slippery slope. i'm sorry. and i just feel we've, we've we're going to lose control . and i'm going to lose control. and i'm just worried for those that are going to feel a burden on their family. and i'm going to use this , i, i worry about that as well. >> and i think that's why it comes back to the it's really important now because this bill hasn't passed. that was obviously a huge hurdle. it cleared . but the next stage is cleared. but the next stage is critical, which is looking at putting the safeguards in place. >> and if it doesn't then it shouldn't pass, need to be put

in place beforehand and thorough and robust. what about the fact that it and robust. what about the fact thatitis and robust. what about the fact that it is very expensive? so it starts off as a small thing. but then before you know it, it starts to encompass anybody who's, you know, got this or anybody who's been told that or what about that. well, i don't i don't think it's the model that is what's happening in the places where it is allowed. >> yes, but this bill is stricter than in almost any other. no, but it is. it is. this is not something that anybody will be able to take advantage of, if that's the right way of putting it. >> no, it's. >> no, it's. >> no, it's not. there are, there are, there are because there are, there are because there are, there are because there are limited circumstances. there is a time frame. there are all sorts of hoops. people will well, they could in every place that this has been introduced, the circumstances have expanded. >> and if we're going to . >> and if we're going to. >> and if we're going to. >> well that's that's not sorry nana. that's not true. >> the health the health select the health select committee. give me a place where it's happening, where this hasn't started to encompass more. >> so as i understand it, australia is a is a good model, but i think it's a more liberal. it's a more liberal. >> yes. but it started with something and now it's expanding to include others. >> well, well no . >> well, well no. >> well, well no. >> the health select committee published a report which said

that actually there is no jurisdiction where the original terms of the legislation in those jurisdictions has significantly changed. >> well , i beg significantly changed. >> well, i beg to differ significantly changed. >> well , i beg to differ with >> well, i beg to differ with what you're saying there, because what basically what will the terms of the legislation were probably were very loose in the first place, which is why if that's the case, that's why it's justifiable. >> well, i think we really should be looking at is palliative care and looking at that, you know, and i've seen it, i've been in hospices where people in terrible pain and they've not been able to get that pain relief to get them through, you know, on their last days. and hours. and that's what's important. and that's what's important. and that's what needs to be looked at. >> i think you need to get real about this country. i mean, we are very disorganised, something like this coming in without the relevant checks and balances to doctors and somebody else. i'm not convinced, really not convinced. and the fact that people are punching their that it's happened and you've got kim ledbetter, you know, saying right. we're all you know , i right. we're all you know, i think that before we do this, we need a long, hard think about the things that support this bill and whether they're actually able to support it and whether the bill is a reality.

but what do you think, gbnews.com/yoursay? you're with me . i'm nana akua. this gbnews.com/yoursay? you're with me. i'm nana akua. this is a gb news. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. next, my great british debate. and i'm asking, should louise hague have resigned? but first, let's get your latest news headlines with louise mackenzie . louise mackenzie. >> thank you very much, nana. good afternoon. it's just after 3:30. here are your top stories from the gb newsroom. well, as you've just been hearing, assisted dying could become legal in england and wales after the bill was backed by mps in a historic vote. >> the ayes to the right 330. the noes to the left 275. the ayes have it. the ayes have it. a lock kim leadbeater's bill received 330 eyes, compared to 275. >> noes had its second reading in the house of commons. that's a majority of 55 mps, with prime

minister sir keir starmer among those who voted in favour of the bill. it would allow adults with just six months left to live to request medical assistance to end their lives. kim leadbeater says that there is still absolutely lots of work to do on assisted dying proposals, and slight changes to the bill are part and parcel of the process. last night's results means the legislation will now progress to the committee stage for scrutiny, with the lords also being given opportunities to express their views on the measures before it potentially becomes law . president volodymyr becomes law. president volodymyr zelenskyy has suggested the part that parts of ukraine under his control should be taken under the umbrella of nato to try and stop the hot phase of the war. dufing stop the hot phase of the war. during an interview, the ukrainian president was asked whether he would accept nato membership, but only on the territory that kyiv currently

holds. he said he would, but only if nato membership was offered to the whole of ukraine within its internationally recognised borders . first, recognised borders. first, however, so far president putin has given no indication that he's abandoned his desire to subjugate ukraine entirely . a subjugate ukraine entirely. a memorial service has been held today for former first minister of scotland alex salmond, his wife of more than 40 years, and supporters arranged a remembrance service for him on saint andrew's day. mr salmond died last month in north macedonia at the age of 69. he was at the conference when he suffered a heart attack. salmond was buried in a private family ceremony nearby his home in aberdeenshire at the end of october. well, those have been your latest gb news headlines for now. i'm lewis mckenzie. there's more from me in half an hours there's more from me in half an hour's time for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone , sign up to news smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gb news .com .

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>> welcome back. you're with gb news. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua if you've just tuned in. where have you been? no, no . where have you been? no, no. sorry. it's early. it's early days.i sorry. it's early. it's early days. i shouldn't get so angry at the beginning of the show. but it's time now for the great british debate, and i'm asking, should louise hague have resigned now the transport secretary quit her post after it emerged that she had pleaded guilty to a fraud offence a decade ago, where she incorrectly told police that a work mobile phone was stolen or apparently it had been stolen in apparently it had been stolen in a muggings . we're not the a muggings. we're not the muggings, we're not the muggers here. but yes, it had been stolen whilst she was mugged, apparently. and then she realised that it hadn't been stolen. and then did not inform her work workplace, which was of

course aviva. aviva insurance, who are quite hot on that. i should imagine . but. but is should imagine. but. but is there more to this than meets there more to this than meets the eye? because there seem to be another story around other phones and it was all about upgrades . and so for the great upgrades. and so for the great british debater, i'm asking, should she have resigned and what else was going on there? what do you think? joining me now, broadcaster and columnist lizzie cundy and also political commentator andy williams, andy williams, i'll come to you first. yes . louise hague, should first. yes. louise hague, should she have gone? >> yes . she broke the law. >> yes. she broke the law. that's one thing. and she had declared that it was a it was suspended. it was a spent conviction and i think and that that explains why keir starmer was content to appoint her to the shadow cabinet in the first place, because she said, i broke the law . i, you know, i was the law. i, you know, i was convicted. it was a spent conviction. so that's fine. that's one thing. what has clearly happened here is that and this is always the downfall of politicians like louise hague.she of politicians like louise hague. she didn't give the full facts at the time. and now new facts at the time. and now new facts have emerged, and keir starmer and morgan mcsweeney actually, who i think drove a lot of this decision to say yes,

she resigned, but she was sort of told you're resigning, you know, otherwise we're going to sack you. >> do we know that's what happened, these new facts. >> well, according to the times and i think the times and sky have slightly different accounts. but the times said that two of her colleagues at aviva, which is where she worked when this happened, said that she had sort of misled or pretended that she'd mislaid her phonein pretended that she'd mislaid her phone in order to get a better upgrade for her work phone. so i don't know whether that is the fact, but apparently that's what two of her colleagues have said. and if that is something new that has emerged and therefore she misled her employer, she then misled keir starmer, the prime minister, about that. of course, she has to go. >> i'd like to get hold of those two friends. i really would. >> well, there we go. i mean, it's unbelievable, this labour government. what a start , andy. government. what a start, andy. honestly, i can't believe it. they've all got poor integrity and she's another one who is out of her depth. >> i think that's very. i think that's very unfair, lizzie, to say they've all got poor integrity. i mean actually, you know, so two things. number one,

rachel , i know, so two things. number one, rachel, i think i think rachel, i think rachel, i think rachel reeves has plenty of integrity. i know you're going to laugh, but i really, really do. >> we are all laughing. >> we are all laughing. >> i really what about her cv though? >> what about her cv? it doesn't matter. every every no it doesn't. of course it does. >> no, it doesn't when you're in government, andy, it really matters . no. this matters. i'm sorry. >> louise, let lizzie finish. >> louise, let lizzie finish. >> and you know what? he. keir starmer, is not to blame for. and she she should have come clean . she's a convicted fraudster. >> yeah. but basically. but to remind you, her conviction is spent. you mean, you know, how long should you be persecuted for a crime? exactly. >> when you're in government, you have to say the truth. you have to be truthful. this was the party that was on the high horse saying, no more cronyism. we're going to be the one. the policy, you know, no more dishonesty in politics. we're the true party to believe in us. we're honest. it's been lie after lie after lie saying lord alli to freebie gate to rachel from accounts and now louise haigh. sorry, i think you have

to look. >> i think you have to look at each of these cases on the facts now. clearly, no, but she had she had a she had a spent conviction. and i think actually in the scheme of things in itself, was that a massive problem, should that have precluded her from being appointed to cabinet? i would say no. >> depends what it is exactly. and to me, you know, saying that you've lost a mobile phone and then then then suddenly the phone arrives and then you don't declare it back, and then you actually end up pleading guilty to it, which she then said that she wished she hadn't pleaded guilty. i would say personally that that is not good enough . that that is not good enough. >> well, we're in agreement that actually, when further facts came to light, she was absolutely right to resign. now, i think you just have to look at these on a case. case by case basis. but but keir starmer wasn't told the full facts but it's irrelevant. >> i wouldn't no no no. but if i had been keir starmer and one of my potential mps and bear in mind this is a cabinet mp had told me this story, i would be. i mean, he said he was head of the cps and all these sort of things. he should have made much further investigations into what she's telling him and he could have easily done that. and i

don't think either he did or he didn't, or he's not telling the truth. but either way, i smell a rat . rat. >> maybe. >> maybe. >> sorry. either way, he would. she would not be a minister in my cabinet. >> well, i mean, and now she isn't. so i just, i think i put isn't. so ijust, i think i put this in the i put this in the i put this in the bucket of things that don't that actually do you know what doesn't matter. it really doesn't matter. it really doesn't. because she's gone and we've got a new transport secretary who's more capable and frankly, is going to make more of an impact than louise hague anyway. >> that was a huge question to ask on this judgement . i don't ask on this judgement. i don't think it does. >> i'm sorry. i don't think it does create a huge question over keir starmer, because it's not because it's just irrelevant to people's lives. it's irrelevant. it says nothing at all. >> this is about so wrong and this is where the labour party get it so wrong, because they don't read the room, they always say, oh, it doesn't matter. they sweep it under the carpet, let's move on. the same what they did with freebie gate. it does matter. freebie gate do care about this. and let's be honest , about this. and let's be honest, this is the first time she was the one that spouted off about p&0 the one that spouted off about p&o ferries that we lost. you

know , millions in investment. know, millions in investment. well, i agree with you on that. >> i agree with you on that, lizzie. and actually, if we're being frank about it and actually it will in the next few days and it's already coming out, the real reason she's gone is that she was not a reliable minister. she shouldn't have done that. she made a huge mistake in that. >> starmer's judgement . >> starmer's judgement. appalling. no, i don't agree, prime minister. >> i don't agree with that. i actually think keir starmer has actually think keir starmer has a really strong track record of binning people at the first, you know, one strike and you're out. >> what about jazz? well then. >> what about jazz? well then. >> oh well. >> oh well. >> well why is he not gone if he's so good at binning people? one strike and you're out. there's many strikes. hang on. what about him, jazz? >> well, it's a completely different thing because. why? because he's a rogue landlord. let me finish. jazz archewell is a backbench mp now. i think the way he has behaved as a as a rogue landlord, which is absolutely a fact, is disgusting. >> so why should keir starmer not have binned him? you're we're talking about binning people in. he's very efficient at it. you said it yourself. it came from your lips. yeah. jazz archewell why is he still in post? you should have gone in. >> what post? he's he's a

backbench mp. you can't suspend the whip from everybody. who? >> everybody. it's somebody. >> everybody. it's somebody. >> we all have the whip. no, no. with all due respect, we're talking about two different things. ministerial posts. one thing. if jazz was a minister, yes, he should be gone. as an mp, you can't suspend the whip from everybody who you think has reprehensible behaviour. >> not appalling. we know what jesus has done and i agree with him that he put in place. i totally agree with you. then flouted himself whilst angela rayneris flouted himself whilst angela rayner is going on about rogue landlords and her housing bill and everything else like that. if keir starmer is such a ruthless leader, joseph yamal should have had the whip removed a long time ago. why hasn't he done it? >> because you're talking, you're talking about a backbench mp, so you can't go. it's not about you wouldn't end up with any left, you'd end up with none left. and that's a cross. >> listen, this is a no listen at all. >> give me a second, lizzie, because that is a cross party point. you would literally end up with hardly any mps left if that was the case. >> okay, so name another mp that's done something similar to the jazz archewell in terms of landlord ownership. >> well, but no , no. and i >> well, but no, no. and i totally agree. we're not disagreeing that that is disgraceful. >> he should have the whip

removed and he hasn't. >> starmer's judgement is absolutely appalling for the man that's supposed to have this forensic great legal brain. that's to know everything. why didn't he do his diligence? why didn't he do his diligence? why didn't he do his diligence? why didn't he do his homework? on on. louise, let's be honest about keir starmer spends all of his time doing due diligence and i he's quite a busy man. >> well, he was the head of the cps, but he's not any more. you would think that he would have a little bit more due diligence. i'm afraid he's bringing people 7528 00:45:28