off seeing rounds nearly put me off seeing the thing. apparently the green, which is now a metaphor for modern identity politics. yes, because nothing says relatable quite like being green. honestly, it's like the woke glitterati are determined to convince you at home not to see the film. >> i'm a person and i feel and i have feelings and i can share them . and if you need to cry them. and if you need to cry right now, you cry. yeah. >> if you need to cry right now, you cry. >> it's as fake and plastic as the wizard himself. but fear not. tonight we're summoning the magic to tackle a line up spicier than an argument between gunda spicier than an argument between glinda and elphaba. will kingston is our very own wizard of oz. australia , bringing a no of oz. australia, bringing a no nonsense take sharper than the wicked witch's broomstick doctor renee. well, i'm loathe to call her a witch because she might hit me. it's our glinda of reason. she's floating on her bubble of common sense to burst

walk delusion. alex armstrong is the lion with no need for courage. he's got it in spades andisnt courage. he's got it in spades and isn't afraid to roar about what matters. and nichi hodgson well , let's what matters. and nichi hodgson well, let's just what matters. and nichi hodgson well , let's just say what matters. and nichi hodgson well, let's just say she's what matters. and nichi hodgson well , let's just say she's the well, let's just say she's the elphaba of woke. casting spells of progressive charm and hoping we all sing along. spoiler alert we all sing along. spoiler alert we probably won't. so grab your broomsticks, hold on to your pointy hats and join us as we fly through the week's wildest headunes. fly through the week's wildest headlines . it's the saturday headlines. it's the saturday five where the banter is bewitching. the commentaries cutting and the nonsense melts away like a witch under a bucket of water. let's get wicked. you know the drill. by now, each host outlines an argument about a chosen topic. then we all pile in and the fur starts to fly. and of course, we want your views as well. send them and post your comments by visiting gbnews.com/yoursay. don't forget ask the five as well. no topics are off limits, but before we start tearing each other apart,

it is saturday night news with joe casper . joe casper. >> good evening. it's 6:03. i'm joe casper. here are your top stories from the gb newsroom. masterchef producer bannau has announced city law firm lewis silkin will investigate alleged misconduct by tv presenter gregg wallace during the filming of the cooking show. it comes after further accusations were made against him in the wake of him stepping away from the bbc programme. penny lancaster is said to be prepared to speak with authorities regarding her experience with mr wallace. on celebrity masterchef following his recent departure. the sun reports three different women are now also accused are also accusing mr wallace of groping bannau. uk urged anyone with further concerns to get in touch, and said all information will be handled sensitively. mr wallace's lawyers insist the claims are entirely false, adding the suggestion that

wallace, who has presented the popular bbc one programme alongside john torode since 2005, engages in behaviour of a sexually harassing nature was entirely false. a murder investigation has been launched after the death of a woman in her 60s in south london. officers were called to an address in surrey quays at about 3 pm. on friday, after reports that a woman had been stabbed. the metropolitan police said the london ambulance services service and london's air ambulance also attended, and the woman was taken to hospital, where she later died. a 61 year old man was arrested on suspicion of murder and remains in custody . a memorial service in custody. a memorial service has been held today for former first minister of scotland alex salmond. his wife of more than 40 years and supporters arranged a remembrance service for him on saint andrew's day. mr salmond died last month in north macedonia at the age of 69. he was at a conference when he suffered a heart attack and was buned suffered a heart attack and was buried in a private family

ceremony near his home in aberdeenshire at the end of october. football action now and there were wins for brentford, nottingham forest and bournemouth in the premier league today. meanwhile, crystal palace scored a last minute equaliser to draw one all at home to newcastle. west ham versus arsenal is the evening kick off. now to a story that will sweeten your day. a man has been awarded £2 in compensation after he complained about a smooth mars bar. harry seager , smooth mars bar. harry seager, from buckinghamshire, picked up the chocolate treat at a service station in oxfordshire but contacted manufacturers mars wrigley when he discovered it hadn't. it didn't have its signature ripple in a letter. the firm apologised for its experience and enclosed the £2 vouchen experience and enclosed the £2 voucher, but offered no explanation. mr seager said i think £2 is great. it will be two free mars bars. maybe they could have sent me more but i'm not ungrateful . the story of the not ungrateful. the story of the day that's brilliant. those are your latest gb news headlines.

i'm joe casper. >> more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone , sign up to news smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gb news .com . forward or go to gb news .com. forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> it's saturday night and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, and i can promise that you're for in a very lively show. i've just got to read out this comment from stephen. stephen says willie was on with ben leo last night. i'm glad he's back on the saturday five i love willie. well , five i love willie. well, stephen, your preferences are your own. >> we all love willie and oh, god, patricia comments i love willie. >> you can count on the aussies not holding back enough about will's love life. is that serious? yes , serious. i'm serious? yes, serious. i'm serious. thank you for the comments. keep them coming in. we'll crack on now with tonight's first debate. and it

isn't willie. it is alex. alex, what have you got for us? >> well , it's been what have you got for us? >> well, it's been a big week again for keir starmer, hasn't it? his fragile government has been rocked by another scandal this week . louise hague, the this week. louise hague, the transport or should i say ex transport secretary, has been forced out by downing street because of her prior fraud convictions. now she's claimed that she's told keir starmer all about these prior convictions. the conviction itself is that she had a phone stolen during a mugging and that then she then found the phone and failed to declare it. hence the former conviction. she's told starmer that about this conviction before , but starmer's team are before, but starmer's team are now saying that she didn't. so who's the labour liar now? of course, labour are now suffering from the same low bar that they set for resignations, with tory ministers. louise hague is a prime example of this. she sent

multiple tweets out saying that bofis multiple tweets out saying that boris johnson and others should resign simply in some cases because she didn't like them. but let's get back to the topic at hand here. if dishonesty gets you sacked , why is rachel reeves you sacked, why is rachel reeves still the chancellor? allegedly, the chancellor has lied on her cv and changed it multiple times. she can't answer a question. she did an interview the other day with itv. she just can't answer the question. so my question to this panel is, is this whole government utterly incompetent or is it compulsive lying? >> well, nikki has come today to show her collection of mobile phones gathered from many lifetimes. yes, cases of insurance claims. but, nikki, on a serious note, i mean , do you a serious note, i mean, do you have any sympathy with alex's argument? >> a little bit. i mean, she's not on the scale of boris johnson. let's be clear. it's not that kind of tory lying . not that kind of tory lying. we're not talking about

proroguing parliament and lying to the queen. but i mean, is it a spent conviction? yes. yeah . a spent conviction? yes. yeah. so i mean, that kind of to me, that's the sticking point. if it was an unspent conviction, that's different. >> but do you think that starmer like has he lost his judgement. i mean he's got two cabinet ministers, one of which has allegedly lied on her cv and misled the electorate. and the other one has a fraud conviction that he's now saying in his team is saying they had no idea about. so my question was, is he incompetent or is he just lying? >> well, he'll say as a legal man that he has spent conviction doesn't need to be talked about anymore. right. and we all believe that under the law, then why should justice and why has she been sacked? because. because it's inappropriate. and it's about we have set moral standards for politicians. and if they fall short of them, then they should be sacked. why? appropriate to sack her. >> but why is she there in the first place, then? >> well, i don't know. i mean, there just aren't enough good candidates. the thing is, she isn't anyway. but rachel reeves i do have sympathy with because she plagiarised half a book, and that's just not on. well, she did, she did i say as a writer,

my question is this right? >> nikki is right to say that her conviction is spent and no longer actually appears on her record. right. but the question i would have for you, nikki, is when the reform mp james murdoch, was dragged through the press and within parliament itself, people calling for his suspension from parliament because of a past conviction about 20 odd years ago, or something like that, involving an assault . now there was no an assault. now there was no forgiveness. there should. why should there be forgiveness for this case here and now? >> well, it's because it's to do with a victim of the crime, right? so apparently if you're defrauding an insurance company, there's no person at stake. i mean, there always is someone at stake. we know that's how it works. somebody else . somebody works. somebody else. somebody would probably have got sacked for putting that claim through. when it was revealed that it was false, but with something like an assault, you worry that's a behavioural condition of a person. >> right. but you know what? i think the problem is? you're right. i agree with everything you've said. apart from the fact that keir starmer has staked his government on being the sleaze free party, the change, and he has also said and stood up and

said , you can't be the law said, you can't be the law makers and the law breakers . so makers and the law breakers. so unfortunately he's been hoisted by his own petard because these are his rules and now he's falling short and he's been tripped up by his legal precedent as well, because he's just thinking with a legal head. >> and what he needs to think is with a moral head and how things are perceived. but i still stand by the fact that this is such a minor crime, considering when you compare it with what boris johnson did, i really want someone to answer. >> do they think it's incompetent? i think it's or is it lying? i think it's both lying and incompetence. >> it's not a mutually exclusive situation. i don't think we're quite hitting it. the key issue here is did he know? and if he did know, he has to resign. now let me do my best, keir starmer, and admit some items into evidence. admittedly, i'm not sure i can possibly be that uncharismatic, but let me try. number one, the way that they're framing this is they're saying, well, more details have come to light, which implies that they knew that something was there from the outset. number two, the way that these senior cabinet ministers are vetted is serious. they would have been able to pick this sort of thing up. and

three westminster talks. we all know westminster talks. there is no way he didn't know this . and no way he didn't know this. and if he did know it and kept it here in the cabinet anyway, he has to resign. >> but well, let's, let's just go back to boris johnson. you know, somebody who serially lied in very serious circumstances. would you have asked him to resign? no, because he didn't say that. >> lawmakers can't be law breakers. >> oh my goodness. so that's the issue. it is the fact that he's an absolute blatant liar. it is criminal. >> look, you can't grandstand publicly on twitter and on tv interviews and then then expect the bar to be set differently. >> it's a spent conviction. >> it's a spent conviction. >> back to that statement on saying that. what did you say? bofis saying that. what did you say? boris johnson is a i said he's a liar and he's he's he's criminal. >> well, he broke the code. he broke his own covid laws. >> he had a piece of cake in number 10 that still broke the law that we weren't allowed to break. >> so what about his law breaking? it was investigated. >> okay, so did did starmer not break those rules then when he had an impromptu party where they ordered food in for 19 people, beer and curry, having a beerin people, beer and curry, having a beer in the window. >> oh, it's not the same. >> oh, it's not the same. >> why is it not the same?

>> why is it not the same? >> because it's the it's the surrealness of boris johnson's lying. that's the issue. he has reduced our democracy. he's reduced our democracy. he's reduced the standard of the politicians we expect. and so louise haigh is nothing by comparison. >> no, she herself tweeted about bofis >> no, she herself tweeted about boris johnson being a fraudster, right? and said things to that effect. >> continue lying to the whole country to and the police. it is different lying to a whole nafion different lying to a whole nation when you're in office, as opposed to lying to someone years ago on an insurance claim. i'm sorry, but it's not comparative. >> well, i certainly think it is. but on that wider point of forgiveness, do you think you can ever forgive people and have them come into public life, as in they spend their conviction? it's off their record. can we ever be a society that allows people to hold high office after being done for something? >> yes, but they have to be upfront about it. and this is part of a wider trend amongst this labour government that they are not fine. >> i agree with that. >> i agree with that. >> no and yes, but not when you're the one who has stood up and said very clearly that you are going to eradicate all of this lawbreaking because you can't be a lawmaker if you're a

lawbreaker, then you can't. yeah. >> yeah, exactly. they don't have a leg to stand on effectively. but i mean alex on that nikki's point there about comparing the two political parties, some people might say, well, plague on both houses. >> yeah. well i absolutely have. i believe there is a plague on both their houses. and i think most of the electorate are completely fed up with both parties. frankly , i'm fed up parties. frankly, i'm fed up with the tories. i mean, i didn't vote for the conservatives despite being a party member up until recently, because i'm sick to death of it all. and look, i do think the standards are we've set the standards are we've set the standards too high for politicians. they are human beings, but we do expect them to beings, but we do expect them to be better than us. and at this point in time, when we're looking at what's going on in the labour government over not just, you know, hague's resignation, but reeves's case with their cv. and then before that, the lord alli scandal. i think people are just going what's changed? we've got promised we're going to have change in this labour government. and we've had nothing but more of the same. >> neil has said, who's a member? thank you neil. he says bofis member? thank you neil. he says boris got a fixed penalty notice. he did not defraud his employer and make a false statement to the police as he did. >> i mean, no, but he just lied

to the queen and the whole country about his behaviour. i'm sorry, but he was prime minister. it is not comparable. he he prorogued parliament. parliament. and then that was obviously proven. the system in which he did it was falsified. >> and then he stood. he stood. it . and it was jacob rees—mogg it. and it was jacob rees—mogg at the time who went to the queen and had the conversation. but the problem there was they then faced an election and they could be held to be responsible for their actions . and also the for their actions. and also the electorate said, i don't want to have a government that does this sort of thing. they could have kicked them out, but those things shouldn't be separate. >> it shouldn't be that somebody breaks the law and then we unelect them to get rid of them. >> louise haigh this is the problem. this is the fact. >> well, but apparently you're saying that keir starmer did, but also boris ultimately cost like this cost him his job. >> in the end, he did lose his job. >> but that's not for that reason. he lost his job because he lost his popularity. >> i mean, ian says that ian in suffolk says darren louise should stand down as a member of parliament who thinks that. >> yeah, i agree with that. i do agree with that. >> oh, a by—election, niki. that

would be fun, you know, can you i . mag|ne? imagine? >> the worrying thing is, it might be niki on the ballot. right. coming up next, renee is going to address the shocking record migration numbers month. and who's to blame you with the saturday five?

welcome back to the saturday five. as always, thank you very much for all of your messages about tonight's show. starting off with a bang, edward says darren starmer watched 12 and 13 year old children being arrested. i reckon that in itself in itself should be a resigning matter. itself in itself should be a resigning matter . and john says resigning matter. and john says darren, please ask george to turn down the volume. that could be anyone on the panel who's john? >> usually me. >> usually me. >> i was i was shouting no, no, no, no. and the other comments, lots of comments actually coming

in saying that actually they do view this as a resigning matter and another request to turn down nicky's microphone. i'll be doing no such thing. i'll be doing no such thing. i'll be doing the northern gobstopper. bakhmut. yes, that's exactly , bakhmut. yes, that's exactly, exactly it. right. thank you for those. keep them coming in. and remember ask the five as well. get your messages in for that. right. who's up next? me . oh right. who's up next? me. oh that was some determination . that was some determination. >> so this week we saw both keir and kemi hastened to give out a press conference about the abysmal migration figures that were released. once again, the only reason that they looked decent was because they suddenly found another 150,000 people last year that they didn't know about then that made this year look not too bad, or at least slightly improved. so let's take both speeches with a pinch of salt and look at kemi. to start with, to talk about immigration, we need a new approach. >> the system is broken. we

can't go on like this. we got it wrong and we are going to learn. the conservatives are going to develop a detailed plan for immigration to put before you at the next election, not the policies of labour, which are going to fail. >> yeah. well, you know, it was pretty boring. but she did say a couple of things that were interesting. she said that it was time to tell the truth on immigration. yes, it is time to tell the truth. and if this actually happens, it'll end. because if they actually tell us who is committing crime in our country, who is at the top of our nhs waiting list, who's taking our school places so that we can't get our kids into the local school? people will not stand for it anymore. so please do tell the truth . she also said do tell the truth. she also said that our country is not a dormitory, it's not a hotel, it's a home. and i agree, and i don't invite strangers into my home and let them use my fridge or my heating, or sleep in my bed . so she's right from that bed. so she's right from that perspective. but, you know, don't want to state the obvious. they had 14 years to fix it. they had 14 years to fix it. they broke it. but now labour

have taken over. and guess what ? have taken over. and guess what? since they took power, they have opened more asylum hotels than they've actually closed. and yet they've actually closed. and yet they said they were going to smash the gangs. they're now spending £4.2 million a day, £5 billion a year on migrant accommodation. that's your money and my money that they're choosing to spend that way instead of spending it, stopping pensioners freeze to death in their homes, stopping our veterans, 20,000 of them sleeping on our streets and sending £11 billion to africa for climate change and letting small businesses go out of business to raise that money. these are choices. choices that our politicians are making with our politicians are making with our money. both of their press conferences were an exercise in damage limitation. nothing else. they're hoping that you will believe what they say to you , believe what they say to you, rather than what you can see with your eyes. it's classic gaslighting, and to according keir, they're going to fix the foundation , secure the borders foundation, secure the borders and make britain great again.

they're not. it's a lie. well, keir, we're going to hold you to it though, and we're going to watch you. i would say to you , watch you. i would say to you, the only way you're going to fix those foundations is to close the doors of hotel britain today and do not reopen them in this parliament. nikki, i bet you agree . agree. >> absolutely not. well, look, keir starmer has taken the issue head on this week and he was he was unwavering in his commitment to stopping and cutting immigration, both illegal and legal. but he was very clear about that. what's that. sorry. he wouldn't put a cap on it. >> he wouldn't put a number. he wouldn't put a cap on it. >> and he's wise not to because we've still got loads of other issues going on 30,000 vacancies in the nhs. and we still need to take on some skilled workers that that may come from migrant visas. >> a million people came to the country and you're telling me that we've got 30,000 vacancies? >> i'm saying nursing vacancies, that maths doesn't make sense. nursing vacancies. we've actually got more staff vacancies. we've got about 100 k. the reason i'm saying this is

because there are certain instances where we will still need skilled migrants to come into this country. we still need foreign students to come into our universities because we haven't found a solution to that problem. well, you know what the solution is to that close them down, close them down, contract the industry, and just have british students in british universities and then contract all the universities. the problem is this is the argument that nobody has about immigration is the more people you bring here, the more people you've got to have. >> then support those people that you've brought here. so it's a self—perpetuating problem that's already been that's already been shut down. what's donein already been shut down. what's done in hungary is that they've got a programme where they're trying to foster people having children. so if you're under the age of 28 and you've got a student loan and you've had three kids, they'll wipe your student loan off. we are investing in illegal migrants. they're investing in families. that's the difference. >> but we've already said that we're going to cap that ability to bring in dependents. we've already talked about that. it's very clear the tories did that . very clear the tories did that. yes. but that's been that's still the law as far as i understand it. that hasn't been changed. >> 38 k though, to be a taxpayer in this country. >> but you don't tax tax paying

is not the only contribution you make to society. there are lots of other ways you can contribute to society in britain by caring for people, by being a good citizen, by volunteering, you don't actually pay taxes. >> the thing is, the thing is coming over from sudan and the like of volunteering in the community. >> well, i don't know. i've heard it all now. i really have. you are in cloud cuckoo land. >> you've got to give people a chance to make a difference. and i say this as we are, as you all will have heard me say a million times, married to immigrants that came from bangladesh and burma under threat of war and all the rest of it, and they made incredible lives for themselves and massively contributed. and it took time. you can't expect someone that comes over here in a year to turn their lives around, but with support they can. >> the problem is, is that gdp per capita is going down, and it's not just a result of legal migration, because there's good cases for legal migration. it's illegal migrants that people are getting really upset about because they are actually, you know, screwing the system. so to speak. you know about that? well, yeah, of course, legal migration is too high. absolutely. >> and we need to separate. >> and we need to separate. >> exactly. that's what i'm trying to say. let's separate.

the illegal migrant problem is a totally different issue, because we're having to pay billions of pounds for those people to look after them. it's coming out of your taxpayer money. it's coming out of your bill. legal migrants can come here and start working and contributing to the economy. they cannot. and that is why people are so wound up. nikki. >> why is it the job of the uk to help foreign migrants turn their lives around? >> why is it the job of any human to help any other human? no.the human to help any other human? no. the job. it's a question of humanity. will. no. the job. it's a question of humanity. will . so is it about humanity. will. so is it about empathy? because if you if you were having to flee here because of war and you had to land in wherever it was, you would want people to be kind. >> they don't have to flee here because of war. they go through multiple safe countries. they don't need to flee here because of war. >> but maybe they speak english. we've said this before. >> surely nick gibb speaks english. >> following on from what you say about compassion, surely that compassion should start at home. >> of course it could be. but renee, we've got ways we could put people to work much quicker than we do. we could process them much quicker. >> i don't want those people working. i want the people that live here working. >> people. we've got a problem with worklessness in this country because people do not want to know why. no, no, no,

the migrants to do jobs t