>> welcome to the state of the nafion >> welcome to the state of the nation christmas special. some of you may have heard me mention somerset during the course of the year, but the christmas special is all about somerset because it's where christianity in england probably really began. joseph of arimathea is said to have brought christ himself to glastonbury. between his birth and the beginning of his birth and the beginning of his ministry. what did christ do.7 well, his ministry. what did christ do? well, as any sensible man and god would do, he visited somerset with joseph, who may have been related to him, and went to glastonbury, which started the christian story. the christian truth in this country. so the next time you sing blake's famous hymn and those words come out, you must wonder if they are true. did those feet in ancient time walk upon england's pastures green? it

was. >> feet in ancient. time. walk upon england's. mountains. green. and was the. holy love. of one of england's. pleasant. pastures seen. >> and did those feet in ancient time walk upon england's pastures green? that is the question for glastonbury. was glastonbury the site where christ was brought by joseph of arimathea, immortalised in blake's works? and was and. >> 50ft above the. >> 50ft above the. >> i'm here to talk to luke lowder, who has been very generous with his time in explaining some of the stories, legends, possibly even myths about glastonbury abbey, which is so strongly associated with

the foundation of christianity and therefore, of course, of christmas. so glastonbury is one of the oldest sites associated with christianity in the united kingdom, and this tree is fundamentally important. i wonder if you could explain why the glastonbury thorn is at the heart of all the stories and legends about glastonbury? >> sure. well, the thorn tree here is tied up in the legend of glastonbury foundation. many monasteries and holy sites have a foundation legend as part of their legitimacy, how they became a holy, special place and the holy thorn. and the story of it is one of glastonbury, as it's tied up in the story of a man called joseph of arimathea, a biblical figure some say later authors say , possibly even the authors say, possibly even the great uncle of mary, or even related to christ himself. the story goes that he came to glastonbury in this case after the crucifixion. he may be coming to escape persecution in the holy land. he arrives in the

southwest up through the bristol channel on a trading vessel, sails as far inland as he can, which at the time would have brought him right up to the edge of glastonbury. he gets off of his boat at the bottom of a hill called wearyall hill. he climbs to the top of the hill and when he gets to the top, he is rather tired. at this point. joseph is a very elderly man, so he has with him what you might expect a walking stick. a staff gets to the top of the hill, thrusts his staff in the ground to rest, and while he sits and rests, this staff miraculously grows branches, grows roots and turns into a tree, the holy thorn. this was seen as a miracle, and the idea is, is that some of the local population of the island here saw this happen, and they asked joseph, what's caused this? what's made your stick turn into a tree? joseph tells them, well, god has made it happen. of course, these local people never heard of the idea of god before, so he's meant to convert them to christianity, and they are then meant to help him construct the first church in all of christendom on the site here, and hundreds of years

before justin gets to canterbury and founds the english church there, and this tree comes into flower at christmas and at easter. >> so it celebrates the great christian festivals. >> absolutely it does. so, yes, it flowers twice during those very important times. and there are a number of these trees around glastonbury, all meant to be descendants of that original tree that grew from joseph's staff. and it's been an important symbol of christianity for, for hundreds of years, because it's not a common tree. >> you don't find it all over the country or all over the world. >> no, it is a type of hawthorn tree. but yes, it is rather unique to the local area here. so add a bit of magic to the story. >> and saint joseph is commemorated here. there's a chapel. shall we go? there is a chapel. shall we go? there is a chapel. the chapel of saint joseph. and have a have a look. and saint joseph was known to be a trader. saint joseph of arimathea, he was wealthy. that's why he could pay for the tomb of christ. >> absolutely. yep. >> absolutely. yep. >> and as you pointed out, all of this area was surrounded by

water. so it would have been relatively straightforward to come. absolutely. >> yep. water were the international highways of the ancient world. >> indeed. and it's the monks who dredge it eventually, isn't it? absolutely. >> especially on the land of the monastery here. a lot of land. out to the west of glastonbury is tidal floodplain and marshes, rather unusual. and it's really in the anglo—saxon period. we see big concerted efforts for drainage to, of course, make that land usable and farmable. >> so we're coming into what was the lady chapel, part of the oldest bit of the church. and then quite late on, they decide to have a chapel commemorating saint joseph of arimathea. how did that come about? what was the motivation behind it? >> so, absolutely. so being in the lady chapel now, then, first of all, it is the oldest part of the abbey site surviving. it dates back to about the year 1186. it's about 800 years old , 1186. it's about 800 years old, and this chapel was built after and this chapel was built after a great fire that destroyed much of the anglo—saxon and norman monastery. and it's said that at the time of the anglo saxon

norman monastery, the oldest church was on this site here. and that's the church that goes back to possibly the time of joseph of arimathea, often called in glastonbury, records the vetusta ecclesia, the ancient church. so when they did their rebuild, they thought building it, building their first part of their new monastery on this site was very symbolic and important, and that would have drawn in pilgrims. >> and that's one of the things about these great abbeys, isn't it? they need something that encourages people to come. so canterbury had thomas becket, glastonbury had king arthur and joseph of arimathea, and indeed saint patrick to encourage people to come and actually to help support the work of the abbey. >> absolutely. yeah. they're cementing their claim to these saints by building these chapels and these buildings. and as far as we can tell, the monks genuinely believed that this they had the site of the oldest church on the site here. and you can see the chapel down below us right now at the end, the altar. and what's lovely about the saint joseph chapel is even though we're in a ruined chapel, you can see the altar down there. it's still a functioning chapel that's still used, and

people still occasionally hold services here. >> as we. curtains. >> as we. curtains. >> and in a moment, we'll be back at glastonbury abbey. is that where saint patrick was? is it where saint dunstan grabbed the devil by the nose? in a moment. >> i'll be telling you more. once in royal david's city. >> stood. a lowly cattle shed. >> stood. a lowly cattle shed. >> where a. mother. >> where a. mother.

>> laid her. baby in a manger. for his. bed. mary was that. mother. mild? jesus christ her. little child. he came down to earth from heaven. who is lord and lord of all. and his. shelter. was. a. stable. and his real. was a store. where the poor and needy and lowly lived

on earth all. saviour holy. holy is our. child . pattern. take i. is our. child. pattern. take i. did i got sick. he was. me and. tell us that. song by the sea. do. and. tell us that. song by the sea. do.and.he tell us that. song by the sea. do. and. he feels for us sadness. and he. shares it all our. gladness. and our eyes. and us see him through. his own redeeming love. oh! let of. here.

and gentle. is. our only. heaven above. and. he lives. children. on to the. maze. where he is. gone.

>> welcome back. i'm still jacob rees—mogg, and i've had a very special male mogg from somebody called patrick who says, obviously christ was at glastonbury. that's what inspired me to go to ireland, to convert the irish and get rid of the snakes. but will you tell us

more about the famous people at glastonbury such as king arthur? and so now let's return to glastonbury abbey to talk about the once and future king. >> formed in 1191, the monks were meant to discover king arthur within the graveyard, the south graveyard of the monastery. there are two bodies in the tomb, one man and one woman, with the bodies as a cross, with the words inscribed uponitin cross, with the words inscribed upon it in latin. here lies king arthur upon the island of avalon, which the monks, of course, are delighted to have found this famous king, and they assume with him the lady guinevere. yes, yes. the bones are placed in storage. the word is spread. we have found king arthur. and of course, this word travels like wildfire through the courts of england and europe. because we're at the height of the romantic period in french and english courtly history, arthur has been rewritten by authors such as chretien de troyes, and was a french monk. from being a tribal war leader or chief. and he's turned into a chivalric hero.

and then from that point onwards he cemented as being this knightly king. and what glastonbury does is kind of market this a little bit. there is a gap between them being discovered and the building of this great church. we're inside now. but when the church is finished and at least the choir is finished in the year 1271, there is a ceremony which is attended by king edward the first and his wife, queen eleanor of castile, and they helped the monks reinterred these bones inside a beautiful shnne these bones inside a beautiful shrine tomb within the choir, and this became the famous shnne and this became the famous shrine site of arthur at glastonbury that people wanted to come and see. of course, later kings even came to see king edward the third came to see these bones, and in his the account of his visit, there's a lovely story that the monks removed from the tomb for his viewing delight. i guess the skull and kneecaps of arthur and guinevere and edward the third sets up the order of the garter, and they're looking back to the arthurian legends, aren't they? >> so it's a tremendously important part of the history of

engush important part of the history of english kingship. but it's also a good money earner for glastonbury because people come. so you have djs fanfare, you have arthur, and therefore you draw in the pilgrims, and that pays for these amazing buildings, helps everybody, helps everybody. but they believed it. and that's, i think, important to remember that they're not making it all up for the revenue. they genuinely believe it. and we may now look at it with a 21st century scepticism. but they did it as a pious and genuine act. >> absolutely. yeah. in the way you said it. and so they genuinely believed it. but also within that frame, the concrete truth to that is almost secondary to the intent. and the medieval mind is a lot more accepting of that than we can be today. >> and here the high altar, which would have been obviously where mass was, said the high point of any catholic ceremony. and they carried on building almost right up until the dissolution of the monastery. they had no idea what was about to hit them. >> no, indeed. so the last part of the abbey built was actually just ahead of us. the chapel of

king edgar or edgar the peaceful. and that was built in 1536, only three years before the abbey's demise and closure in 1539, very much just because the king took control of the church there didn't necessarily mean the monastic life had to end. at least that's what they thought anyway. >> and king edgar linked with dunstan and crowned in bath abbey in a coronation service thatis abbey in a coronation service that is recognised today. that amazing little difference between edgar's coronation and charles ii's. >> absolutely. yeah. so yeah. dunstan, of course, born in baltonsborough, nearby local saint, abbot of glastonbury, later became archbishop archbishop of canterbury. and yet he did is credited as being the man who wrote the original or the first coronation ceremony. as we would recognise it today. a lot of claims to fame for glastonbury and taking the devil by the nose with fire tongs is one of dunstan's great claims to fame. the devil tempted him more times. >> it's christmas day, we're about to have mass. what would

be happening? what would the ceremonies be like? and how would the monks celebrate? commemorate christmas so very much? >> in some ways there would have been greater attention to observance at that time. extra services put on within the church, and extra observances. in some ways, although they're observing the offices of christmas and the festival of christmas, the monastic life would have ran through relatively unchanged within the calendar of the time. of course, seasonality brings differences, and there might have been some decoration within the church. theidea decoration within the church. the idea of bringing foliage into the church to decorate was a practice that was did happen, and there would have been additional services put on for the people of the town as well. at times, they wouldn't have been able to get to the lofty area of the choir, obviously, and pass the rood screen, but they might have been invited in to celebrate within the church. >> and would they have received alms? would the monastery have been supporting the poor of glastonbury? because that was one of the things that monasteries were certainly meant

to do. >> yeah, absolutely. so glastonbury, very much as any other monetary would have been supported, especially at christmas, would have been supporting people, clothing, feeding them. they had quite a good provision for alms at glastonbury because the almoner, the monk in charge of the alms to help fund his charitable activities, was given the manor of the village of meare nearby, and he ran that manor for profit, and those profits were used to accommodate the charitable works of the abbey. >> and then it all went. it is quite extraordinary. in the tragedy is the loss of the amazing, beautiful buildings, of which now some really very imposing remains are still standing. >> it's food for the imagination. >> it is, isn't it? yes, yes. it would be lovely to be able to walk through it as it was. >> yeah. it would. >> yeah. it would. >> so we've got sturgeon being cooked in this kitchen. we've got all sorts of game animals.

and so really these feasts, as much as they were celebration, they were a spectacle as well and a very well organised kitchen. >> so here we are by the spit. so you've got the meat roasting, but you've also got somewhere for boiling pans with a drain, you've got a place for washing up and you've got a bakery kitchen. so in one place they've really organised themselves in a sort of henry ford model of productivity. >> absolutely have. yeah. and so it's very efficient, very well organised. the staff knew what they were doing. and of course they're all overseen by a head chef. and usually the calibre of these head chefs were quite important. and our head chef actually stood on top of a gantry within the kitchen, where he could almost oversee the work happening below him, like a conductor at an orchestra. we've represented this gantry today by a modern structure in the centre of the kitchen. >> it's very clever. it assumes the abbot must have got quite fat with all this luxury food. one does think the sort of friar tuck that in the amount of beer

they would have drank. yes, yes, of course, because they never dnnk of course, because they never drink water, do they? no, no. >> well, they had access to clean spring water here and they certainly would have drank water. but normally a ration for a monk at glastonbury was a pint of red wine to be watered down as needed, and up to a gallon, eight pints of ale a day. >> it's not bad, is it? and this is in the rule of saint benedict, who provides for us. i think it's a hemina of wine. >> yes. yeah, absolutely. yeah. so of course, some different monasteries ended up interpreting that in different ways, different ways. >> but it was it was a pint here. yes. so. and did those feet in ancient time walk upon england's pastures green? i wonder how many people, when they sing jerusalem, realise that it they sing jerusalem, realise thatitis they sing jerusalem, realise that it is suggesting that christ actually came to glastonbury, probably with joseph of arimathea? >> yeah, it's an interesting question, isn't it? and whether people realise that or not, it's certainly part of what we call the glastonbury tradition. certainly the story becomes popular with with the onset of

joseph of arimathea narrative in the latter part of the abbey's history, and i believe in the post—medieval period, very much the story of christ coming with joseph comes to the fore, and it's very much celebrated, especially in the 17th century. and that's when this, this there's an explosion of interest in the story of joseph of arimathea, the narratives of potentially christ coming to gloucester with him in those lost years of christ happens. and perhaps then the first church at glastonbury, that vetusta ecclesia, the ancient church, was 3039