leo armstrong and this is ben leo tonight. but don't worry, ben will be back in a couple of weeks. he's taking some hard earned time off with his wife and kids. ben, if you're watching, have a good one, mate. but while ben's away, rest assured that you're going to get the same forthright opinions that ben bastions on this show from me coming up tonight on the show. >> ten minutes. that case never crossed my desk. >> a shame on both their houses, the tories and labour are playing a disgraceful game of politics, while victims sit voiceless on the sidelines and very difficult for us to think we should take back people. >> shamima begum and others are instinctively, instinctively. it's not something i want to do. >> yes, farage under fire. we've got political heavyweights ben habib and gordon taylor going head to head , discussing nigel head to head, discussing nigel farage's position after he's allegedly faced misleading

headunes allegedly faced misleading headlines and a slew of criticism. plus a cheeky treat, my criticism. plus a cheeky treat, my country, that i proudly represent. why was an essex councillor heckled for standing up for veterans and democracy? >> also no more empire. vladimir, you excuse my language. >> hello. boris has got some strong words of advice for putin and we've got our star panel joining us to give you all their opinions on the stories. tonight. we've got author and commentator louis oakley, political consultant suzanne evans, and journalist and broadcaster nina mischakoff. oh, and how do you think the victims of the la wildfires would feel if they saw this? >> couldn't carry my husband out of a fire, which my response is he got himself in the wrong place if i have to carry him out of a fire. >> all that and more. get ready britain, here we go.

have the two main political parties forgotten our brave veterans. but first, here's your news with will hollis. >> alex. thank you. your top story at 9:00, nigel farage has repeated a pledge that reform uk will pay for an inquiry into the grooming scandal if the government continues to reject calls. speaking at the party's nonh calls. speaking at the party's north west conference in chester, reform's leader said the abuse of children in towns across britain, predominantly perpetrated by men of pakistani heritage, was the most unique evil of his lifetime. he used his speech to criticise both the prime minister and the leader of the opposition, while renewing calls for a national inquiry

into the grooming scandal and criticising division in the country of living in two tier. >> britain , had enough of two >> britain, had enough of two tier policing, had enough of two tier policing, had enough of two tier justice, tier policing, had enough of two tierjustice, had enough of us all being divided up. >> well, that speech comes as ten reform councillors in derbyshire leave the party over the leadership of nigel farage. meanwhile, the health secretary has warned the use of inflammatory language over grooming gangs risks vilifying entire communities. meanwhile, labour mp for liverpool walton, dan carden, has called for a national inquiry, the first from the party to break ranks, urging sir keir starmer to use the full power of the state to deliver justice in germany. the afd has nominated co—leader alice weidel as chancellor candidate at a congress live streamed on elon musk's social media platform x,

she promised to close the borders and abandon eu. eu climate policy, pledging to tear down windmills of shame. earlier, protesters clashed with delegates attending the congress in risor, the right leaning alternative for germany is polling at second ahead of the country's election in february. ukraine says its troops have taken two north korean soldiers prisoner in the kursk region. writing on x, president volodymyr zelenskyy said the wounded men who are fighting alongside russian forces are being treated and transported to kyiv, where journalists will be able to speak with them. some 10,000 north koreans are believed to be supporting putin's armies in the defence of russia. after ukraine's surprise incursion into its territory earlier this year, carrie johnson spent almost a week in hospital with flu and pneumonia,

struggling to breathe. the wife of former prime minister boris johnson wrote about her ordeal on instagram that she had not yet fully recovered from a chest infection, saying her strong advice was to get the flu jab, thanking nurses who cared for her, the number of patients in hospital with flu continues to rise. quadruple figures of last winter and finally temperatures dropped to —18.7 degrees in the uk's coldest january night for 15 years. last night, the met office says the temperature was recorded in the most northern region of the highlands. it's expected to stay chilly throughout the weekend, with an amber cold weather alert in place until tuesday. well, today football matches have been postponed. meanwhile, in derbyshire, gritters were stopped from working by 200 cars double parked on a scenic route near edale. the county council turned to social media, asking

visitors to the peak district to please move your cars. those are your latest headlines. now let's get you back to alex for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone. >> sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com/alerts. >> british politics sank to another new low this week. both the conservatives and labour have turned this national epidemic of rape gangs into mere pawns. pawns in a political chess game. this isn't leadership, it's cynicism, and it's a betrayal of our society's most vulnerable. first, let's look at the conservatives. they've pushed for a national inquiry into the grooming gang scandal. and i agree an inquiry is absolutely needed. but let's be clear their move wasn't about

justice. it was about headlines and political point scoring. they chose the day parliament was debating crucial child safeguarding measures, measures that could have saved the lives like that of syria. sara sharif, a ten year old victim of our failing system. instead of supporting these immediate protections, the tories decided to play politics. they voted against the bill, lost their amendment and in doing so, lost the chance to make real progress for children at risk. it wasn't just a misstep, it was a moral failure, leaving the victims forgotten again. but don't mistake my criticism of the tories for support for labour's position. they've completely repelled the idea of a new inquiry, claiming previous ones were sufficient but sufficient. for whom? certainly not for the victims who still await justice. the heavily criticised

independent investigation into child sexual abuse report only focused on six case study areas, where there were no significant reports of grooming gangs. so is that sufficient in any way possible? no, not in my opinion. dufing possible? no, not in my opinion. during the house of commons debate on wednesday, both sides hypocrisy was on full display yet again. labour employed implored the conservatives to support what they called a crucial bill enforcing strict party discipline with a three line whip. yet key figures, including the prime minister, didn't even show up to vote. how can leaders who skip votes on crucial legislation at a time like this lead our country? it is shameless. it seems to me that labour are more concerned with their own political fallout than they are about real justice for the victims. let's not forget many of the frontbench ministers and secretaries of state are at risk of losing

their seats to the muslim vote. but more importantly, labour could call a national inquiry today. today, no vote is needed in the house of commons to do this. well. reform uk, of course, have been critical of both major political parties. they backed the tory amendment, but nigel farage called the vote insincere. reform, of course, is the only major uk party to mention the grooming gang epidemic in their manifesto. and today zia yousef, the party chairman, also recommitted to their earlier pledge, claiming that they will hold a private inquiry into grooming gangs if labour doesn't launch a national one. look, i want to be frank with everybody tonight. reform will be under the same scrutiny to deliver on their promises, not just by me, but by you at home. the entire british public. words will not cut it any more. this scandal is not going to go away, no matter how hard

political parties, mps and the establishment try to brush it out of the public discourse. these victims will not be silenced again. we are giving them a platform and a voice, and we're not going to stop talking about it. these victims deserve better. they deserve justice, accountability, and politicians to act beyond mere words. if our political establishment cannot rise above petty squabbles to deliver justice, do they deserve the trust of you, the british people? i am now joined by former labour adviser matthew torbitt, now matthew, as prussia's amounting onto the pm at the moment. look, is it a sustainable position he can he can hold himself into? we've got 76% of the public wanting a national inquiry. that's three quarters of people. we've got mass amounts of the labour party membership also supporting a national inquiry. what's keir starmer going to do?

>> no doubt given through an inquiry. i think the position is likely untenable and the pressure will become insurmountable for the prime minister. i think it's obviously a bit of a misstep that somebody has forgotten about. six months ago, in the original letter from jess phillips and the home office to oldham council, and i think the line also won't hold that this could take up to seven years. and if you look at previous inquiries, you're looking at between 160 and £200 million. i think ultimately it isn't necessarily about money, it's about righting wrongs. and sometimes money isn't the most important thing. and i think on top of that, this would likely be a much narrower review because you're looking specifically into oldham council, not decades of child sex abuse, much as the previous inquiry did back in 2022. so no, i think the language is clearly softening. we saw jess phillips say only the other day that she would potentially look at a national inquiry if victims asked for it. >> that's right, that's right. >> that's right, that's right. >> i believe survivors is the preferred term for people that have suffered this sort of

abuse. and so i think that it's clearly softening. and what annoys me from a sort of political gamesmanship point of view, because this is what's going on, is labour are just falling into a trap, much like with gaza, because they don't want to be seen to be giving up ground to reform or the conservatives, who can then say, oh, well, we caused them to do this, why don't you just they should have got ahead of it on the sunday shows. just gone. well, gone. do you know what? we listen to survivors and we're going to do it. >> you know, labour only committed to implementing the independent review's recommendations this sunday at 1 pm. after immense amount of pressure from the press, from politicians on the opposition. why are labour not getting on top of this topic after, you know, being the so—called bastions for women and children's safeguarding the last 14 years, why is it taking the media to put pressure on the party? what's going on? >> i think because, as you pointed out in your monologue, regardless of labour, conservative or anything, these girls and these survivors have been ignored by people across

the political spectrum for the best part of 14, 15 years. they they get treated as if without people like maggie oliver and others bringing their voices to the fore. and actually, in fairness, someone like charlie peters, who has been banging this drum for at least 2 or 3 years before any of elon musk's sort of tweets, i think the reason they've they're putting out fires, fires in other areas, unfortunately, we had right back in the summer, the sort of donor gate and yeah, right the way up to now with tulip siddiq being up to her neck in it, it wasn't seen as a priority. >> something clearly, clearly going wrong. we've had dan carden mp now call for a national inquiry. there's lots of people breaking ranks. andy burnham, who's surging ahead in popularity of keir starmer is he finished. is keir over. >> i think he was over before this. personally i think i've always said i said on election night that he would he would likely not last the full term. and i think the way that current trends are going, it's quite clear that at the moment labour will not win in scotland, which will not win in scotland, which will put huge pressure on,

especially after the hard work that anas sarwar has done north of the border. and for the first time in history, we won't win in wales. >> all right, so look, what's it going to take, what's it going to take for the labour party. maybe just, you know, the secretaries of state downing street to listen and be more in touch with the public. something's clearly wrong at the top, i think. >> i think this comes down to actually backbench mps who aren't happy that i've spoken to because, again, falling into the trap meant that with this vote the other day, the tories were very cynical at putting a wrecking amendment in. and for those that don't know what a wrecking amendment is, even if even if labour had voted for that amendment, that would have killed the whole bill. there wouldn't have been a national inquiry. it was all a bit of smoke and mirrors trick. however, i could already see with that being announced because they hadn't got ahead with it on the sunday shows that the facebook adverts would write themselves in every marginal constituency, would have no doubt have had, and i've seen several of them. your local mp voted to not jail child rapists in your constituency. well what? how have you not seen this

coming? >> absolutely. i couldn't agree more with you. but look, let's just talk about jess phillips because she's the safeguarding minister. she's done a lot of work in her career over women, children and this, this, you know, horrific, horrific topic. why is she not calling for a national inquiry? why is she not breaking ranks? surely there's got to be some conscience. i know people want their political careers, but is this above that? >> yeah, it is above that. i think the importance is justice and people feeling like there's and people feeling like there's an element of closure. almost no doubt these people will never get over this sort of stuff. but the idea that there is potentially been rights wronged wrongs, right, sorry will go some way, but actually in a way, if labour was serious about this, it shouldn't even come down to jess phillips. because as you'll know, one of the jay report's recommendations was to have a children, a safeguarding minister. we haven't had one of those because we've only just decided that we're going to implement the recommendations. and actually, that minister would have been likely the one that would have brought an inquiry forward. and i think it will soften. it will. jess will have her own thoughts. i have not spoken to her. it will come

down to the prime minister deciding whether he lets jess do it or not. so it's up to the prime minister. >> interesting stuff matthew. thank you. that's all we've got time for now as the pressure mounts on the pm to hold an inquiry before i get the views of my panel, let's see what reform ukip leader nigel farage said earlier. >> if by the end of this month the prime minister has not called a full national inquiry, then we at reform uk will raise then we at reform uk will raise the money, appoint the people and do it ourselves. we'll do it. >> okay, let's get the thoughts of my panel. suzanne evans, lewis oakley and sorry, i've forgotten your name. i beg you, nina myskow. thank you. so it's been. it's been an interesting night for me. look, suzanne, i'd like to start with you. look, reform uk have come out and said they want to have a private inquiry. that's if labour don't do one. they're saying, is this just political point scoring again. are they expecting labour

to cave in so they can say this. >> you know alex, sometimes i really hate politics because i think this is politics at its worst because it is too often just a political football being batted around parties. i remember i got so excited 2010, all those years ago, david cameron became prime minister and he said, i'm going to put an end to punch and judy politics. and i thought, fantastic. of course it's got worse and worse and worse since then, and no political party will put an end to punch and judy politics. just criticising the other side, whatever they say, because it's the other side. and this is going to be the same thing with if reform have an inquiry, i'm afraid, because they can do what they like. but unless it's independent in the sense that it's cross—party, it nobody will take any notice of the conclusions. and of course mps from other parties. i'm sorry, with the best will in the world because of this party, political posturing are not going to take part in an reform inquiry. so frankly, it's a waste of money, a waste of time. the government needs to have a national inquiry to look at who is responsible for this tragedy, this constant

cover up. and just watching charlie peters report before this programme came on air, it was we were watching it, weren't we? you know, it was astonishing, quite sobering. there has quite clearly been massive cover ups by people in authority who should have been protecting those kids, and they didn't. there does need to be a national inquiry, but i'm afraid i'm sure you know the reform one. it's pointless. frankly. >> nina, would you agree? is the reform doing this to political point scoring? >> and, you know, look, of course, nigel farage is the ultimate consummate politician. he will take any point and run with it. he will see a little a little gap and he'll stick his dagger in. this is this is absolutely whatever nigel farage does. it is pure politics. you know, the trouble is, these girls have been let down by men. they're probably let down by a father who abandoned them. i don't know what the proportion of single mothers are in this case. they've been let down by

obviously, the men who, who who've raped them and abused them and groomed them. they've been let down by the police, who when they went to the police, they were not believed because they were not believed because they were, you know, working class girls and probably a bit stupid. or maybe they were drunk or maybe they were drugged because that's that's all happened and they've been let down by everybody else. >> well, look, i agree, there's been a as i said in my monologue, you know, there's been failure after failure from all political parties in my opinion. but look, labour are still not calling for a national inquiry. >> well, this is incredible. >> well, this is incredible. >> 76% of people. yes. >> 76% of people. yes. >> but the thing is, we're very, you know, we're very bad at inquiries because they tend to just kick the can down the road. they last years, they cost a fortune and then nothing ever happens, nothing changes. so let's first of all get all those 22. points, put them into practice, put them into law so that so that we can get that working. and i you know, i didn't vote for keir starmer and

i'm not an apologist for him. but i heard something when he said, look, this is going to take till 30, 31 and then what? and then what? and in the meantime nothing's changing. >> but there's nothing to stop anybody implementing the j report recommendations and having a separate national inquiry. >> well, this is the thing. we can do both things at the same time, lewis, surely can't we? >> i think we should really be throwing the kitchen sink at this when it comes to protecting young children, nothing makes brits more angry and frightened than the thought that we are not protecting our children, that the people there to protect them, like social services, like police officers are not doing it. have a national inquiry, implement the things from the report and set up a task force to go after the people. now, when we saw the riots last year, the speed at which that was deau the speed at which that was dealt with and shut down and people were in prison immediately have that same energy. and that's what people want from a prime minister that says, this is not happening on my watch. there have been

failings before anybody ever. >> i mean, was anybody ever jailed after the jimmy savile case? no. it was what's, what's what's going to happen with grenfell. what's going to happen. >> so do you think we need to actually look at how inquiries are done in this country. absolutely. >> because we're so bad at them. >> because we're so bad at them. >> there's loads of loads of i mean i've done inquiries when i was a local councillor, you know, i remember one, the tia sharp case, you might remember when a teenager was murdered by her stepfather and the report that came across my desk, i just looked at it and i thought, this is a complete whitewash. but the council were very keen to try and sweep it under the table, was my view. and it wasn't until i started asking questions, but unfortunately, you know, it still ended up getting swept. >> we have to wrap it up here guys, but you guys are going to be back with us in the next houn be back with us in the next hour, and there's so much more to talk about on this topic. right up next is farage's leadership under threat? i'll be joined by ex reform uk deputy leader ben habib and former spokesman for reform uk, gwen taylor. this is ben leo tonight. that's going to be explosive guys come on you've got to watch. it's alex armstrong only

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this is ben leo tonight with me alex armstrong only on gb news. now it's time for our head to head. now nigel farage has had a tough couple of weeks following multiple instances where support for the reform ukip uk leader has supposedly dropped. last weekend, elon musk lit the match as he declared reform uk needs a new leader, saying that farage doesn't have what it takes. then yesterday, gasoline was thrown into the mix after mr farage said that he had been thoughtful. when asked whether the uk should consider bringing back shamima begum. then it also broke yesterday that 12 reform councillors have resigned over

claims that their leader was autocratic and disloyal. despite these bumps in the road for reform uk's leader, it was revealed today that they have surpassed 180,000 members, becoming the fastest growing political movement in british politics. but is nigel farage's leadership under threat? let me know .yourthoughts by heading to know .your thoughts by heading to gbnews.com/yoursay or tweet me at alex h armstrong. i'm joined now by former spokesman for reform uk gwen taylor, and former deputy leader reform uk ben habib. okay look guys, political heavyweights, this is going to be a great debate i'm sure. but ben i'd love to start with you. look, you have been critical of nigel farage very openly, very honestly. do you think he's got this wrong on shemima or is this just a alleged misleading headline from itv? >> so just to be clear, i haven't been critical of nigel

farage. what i've been critical of is some of the things that are coming out of reform uk and the constitution of the party. now that might be seen as being criticism of nigel, but i haven't had i haven't made any ad hominem attacks on nigel. for me it's all about policy and constitution. as far as shamima begum is concerned, i can see no case whatsoever for someone who is complicit in terroristic genocidal activity over a protracted period, however tragic her personal story might be for her to come back to the united kingdom, where we all know we've got a two tier criminal justice system and expose our civil society at vast cost to the danger of a woman who has demonstrated her antipathy to western cultural values and everything in which we believe in this country. the whole point about reform, if i

may say so, is to promote the united kingdom, to protect the united kingdom, to protect the united kingdom, to eliminate in the united kingdom forces which are antipathetic to it. so why would we, particularly in a week when we've talked so openly about the south asian ethnic origin, mostly of the gang rape gangs, welcome in any sense, or even consider which i think is the word that nigel used. the repatriation of a genocidal terrorist. i can't make any case for that whatsoever. >> right. look, i mean, gwen, listen, this has been a difficult couple of weeks for nigel. he's been attacked by elon musk. there have been calls for him to resign. how is he going to bounce back from this or, you know, this massive surge in figures and his membership figures? is that saving the day here? what's the good news? >> i think the point you just made speaks for itself the last two weeks, he said, what, four major meetings up and down the country, at least on three of them, 500,000 people watching it

live, as well as a thousand or so people in the room. they've they've now had 50 000 new members since boxing day, none of whom i believe are joining because they want nigel farage to stand down. i think that's a rather preposterous concept. the polling today, an opinion that comes out in the observer tomorrow morning, reform second in the polls. so he's rising in the polls, rising in membership, rising therefore in funding, getting huge support up and down the country, getting defectors. you mentioned some defectors away, but also getting defectors towards and frankly, the idea that he should look to his laurels and he should be worried about some sort of coup against him, i think is for the birds. >> and by the way, i agree with gwen. i agree with gwen. there's no chance of nigel being dethroned. none. partly as a result of the constitution of the party. because it's impossible to dethrone nigel. >> nobody wants him to. >> nobody wants him to. >> well, look. hang on, hang on, hang on for a second. zia. yusuf, just hang on one second,

because i'd like to come back to this. but zia yusuf said, is it yesterday or today that reform is weeks away from its new constitution? ben, would that change? would that change your perspective on reform the new, the new, the new constitution is designed to prohibit a change of leadership. >> it's impossible under the new constitution, even if it is adopted. >> is that true? >> is that true? >> impossible is it? i don't think it's impossible. it's just. it's not easy. but there again, watching, to put it mildly, of the tory party, shows you having a reasonably easy way of doing things over the last five years has been a disaster for the country, so i'm not i don't have a huge problem with that. it is possible, frankly, if nigel lost the confidence of the membership, this hugely increased membership, and there was the proper rumblings rather than people outside the party pointing at him and saying, you should do things that that we want you to do from outside. if there was an internal problem of that sort, i think that he's not a fool. if the days were numbered, he'd go because he

he's got plenty of other things to do with his life. so i don't think that's a huge problem. but the problem, the problem improved. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> the problem. queen, if you don't mind me saying so. and by >> the problem. queen, if you don't mind me saying so. and by the way, gwen and i are really the way, gwen and i are really close friends, so this is not close friends, so this is not going to be a vitriolic head to going to be a vitriolic head to head. but the problem with nigel head. but the problem with nigel going is that reform is nigel. going is that reform is nigel. nigel is reform. if you want to nigel is reform. if you want to form. >> may have been true if you form. >> may have been true if you want to be. >> if you want. well, i don't want to be. >> if you want. well, i don't see many new faces, voices see many new faces, voices evolving. i don't see a shadow evolving. i don't see a shadow cabinet. i don't see the makings cabinet. i don't see the makings and the, the, the structure of and the, the, the structure of it. it. >> because they've only got five >> because they've only got five mps. surely, ben, this is only mps. surely, ben, this is only because they only have five mps. because they only have five mps. >> it's got nothing to do. it's >> it's got nothing to do. it's got nothing to do with how many got nothing to do with how many mps you have. >> rupert lowe rupert lowe is mps you have. >> rupert lowe rupert lowe is not a significant figure in not a significant figure in pubuc not a significant figure in public debate. >> it's got nothing to do with pubuc not a significant figure in public debate. >> it's got nothing to do with one at a time. one at a time. >> please. one at a time. let's >> please. one at a time. let's go to gwen. go on. go to gwen. go on. >> richard tice still has has a >> richard tice still has has a has a has a loud voice and a has a has a loud voice and a successful voice. and i think successful voice. and i think

what you're seeing growing. and you're right, we don't have a shadow cabinet as of yet, but it's very hard to do with five mps. but i do think that you're seeing a growth. we haven't had elections since june, amazingly. and because of that, it's hard to say. these people are in a position to take up those roles. but with people like nick candy coming in as treasurer, i think it's silly to say that you don't see an improvement in quality, an improvement of ability coming through. i can see internally. >> well, ben, on that point, you know, nick, candy, there are some people criticising the party for taking on nick candy. would you agree with that criticism? he's too soft. he's too tory too. >> i mean, he's worse than tory. he can't. blair and mandelson as his friends. he claims mandelson is one of the greatest political minds ever. mandelson is, as far as i'm concerned, a twice removed, at least twice removed from the labour party, morally corrupt, devious, cunning, reptilian or organism. and he should be nowhere near.

>> okay, okay. >> okay, okay. >> just just to say, you know, peter mandelson is not here to defend himself. sorry. go ahead. >> i don't think i don't think you can defend yourself against that kind of opprobrium that i've just levelled against him. >> no, no, no, it's the point is it's just and i'm >> no, no, no, it's the point is it'sjust and i'm not >> no, no, no, it's the point is it's just and i'm not wildly disagreeing with you, ben on on his moral turpitude. however, to say he's not an effective political operation, a very able politician would be wrong. >> but you wouldn't want someone in reform

chang. this has leo tonight with me.

welcome back. i'm alex armstrong. now the chancellor says there's no choice but to engage with china as she seeks to restart britain's formal economic relationship with the nation. let's take a listen to what she's been saying in the past few hours. >> the fiscal rules that i set out in my budget in october are non—negotiable, and growth is the number one mission of this government to make our country better off. and that is why i am in china to unlock tangible benefits for british businesses exporting and trading around the world, to ensure that we have greater access to the second biggest economy in the world. and when we have these pragmatic conversations with chinese leaders and indeed with chinese businesses, we will always be

acting in britain's national interest. >> well, rachel reeves continues to face widespread criticism over her decision to go ahead with the visit, as borrowing costs have surged to a 27 year high and fears about the economy flatlining are intensifying . at flatlining are intensifying. at a time when every other g7 nafion a time when every other g7 nation has imposed tariffs on chinese electric cars, and most countries relationships are becoming frostier. my question is , should labour be cosying up is, should labour be cosying up to china? i'm joined now by author of the great us—china tech war and the coming collapse of china, gordon chang. gordon, thank you very much for joining me. now, look, the chancellor is coming under intense pressure. of course, the uk's economy looks like it's in a nosedive right now. but i want to ask, what would donald trump make of this visit? the incoming president elect? >> i don't think that he'd like it because it would undercut his diplomacy. but i think his diplomacy. but i think his diplomacy is also misguided

because unfortunately, you can't have responsible conversations with china. we've tried that throughout this century, and they have all failed. the only way to get results from china is to impose severe costs on beijing, and then beijing will see it in its interest to have those discussions. but, you know, going over to china like rachel reeves is doing is really not going to be a solution. >> i mean, so, you know, the previous prime minister, the conservative prime minister, david cameron, has now come under sort of historic, let's say, criticism for his relationship selling out swathes of london properties, opening the door to our economy, being surrendered to the chinese. how does britain, you know, a rather small nation these days protect itself, particularly now as we're looking to, you know, create these trade agreements all over the world post brexit, how do we protect ourselves from the ever growing arm of china? >> i don't think that any country has been able to

successfully protect itself from china, with maybe the possible exception of india, which has severed important links, and that has given china the incentive to actually talk to new delhi in ways that are different than the ways it talks to. for instance, the united states or the eu. so, unfortunately, you know, in the west, we have a sort of an ideological bias towards these quote unquote, constructive discussions. but, you know, over the course of time, they just have not worked, even though they sound responsible to the ear, they have just proved to be failures. >> yeah. you look i mean, china is one of the biggest economies in the world. how do we not trade with them? obviously, there's criticisms on their treatment of the wingers in china, their human rights record. this labour government has been a moral, been on a sort of high horse, at least when it comes to protections around the world and human rights. how do we rectify that? how do we work with a nation that, you know, of

course, is the big one of the biggest economies in the world? we have to work with them. how do we do that in a way that doesn't jeopardise our values? >> well, first of all, you can't because china is committing genocide. there is atrocities, crimes against humanity and of course the aggression towards his neighbours. but the point right now is, although it would sound like everyone in the world has to deal with china, the problem is the chinese economy is in dire straits. we see that it's not growing at the 4.6% pace that they claim for the third quarter of last year, it's probably about zero. and what we see are trends heading downward. and really no practical solutions from xi jinping. so the problem is i don't think you can have good commercial relations with china right now. >> so. so would you say the labour government has got the wool pulled over its eyes when it comes to china? and they're just going over there and china's going to sell, sell, sell china. but actually the outcome for britain could be horrendous, particularly as you predicted the chinese economy may collapse. >> yes. right now, you know, you

hear rachel reeves talk about, well, we want to even up the playing field. we want to have good relations with china. and yes, you know, western leaders have said that for decades, but it's just right now, with xi jinping closing up the chinese economy, with him sort of taking almost semi—emergency measures, it's just not possible to have those type of commercial benefits for britain or for any other country at this particular time. >> do you think, as a result of us trading closer with china, that that trump, who's been very tough talking, tough on tariffs might actually make it worse for the uk if we continue to move eastward? >> well, i think so. and i think that also the eu might find that you're undercutting their diplomacy as well. so, you know, china always tries to pick out a country that it feels particularly vulnerable. but in the long term beijing's relationships with those countries don't work out well

except for china. >> interesting. well, look, thank you so much for joining >> interesting. well, look, thank you so much forjoining me tonight. lots to chew on there for rachel reeves. up next, do the main parties even care about our veterans anymore? i'll be joined by reform uk councillor jamie mciver. but next, your weather. >> i hope it doesn't rain. >> i hope it doesn't rain. >> don't worry about it. >> don't worry about it. >> it'll spoil our holiday. >> it'll spoil our holiday. >> relax. we're totally covered. >> relax. we're totally covered. >> allclear travel insurance sponsors gb news travel destinations forecast . destinations forecast. >> for anyone looking for winter sun, i can report very mixed conditions across the med. unsettled in italy with showers in greece, but across much of iberia it's fine. plenty of sunny skies, breezy towards the canaries and we've got this area of low pressure moving through italy that's going to bring unseasonably windy weather and outbreaks of rain , with snow outbreaks of rain, with snow over the mountains. meanwhile, showery conditions and a strong wind, but mild for greece for the time of year. and then it turns more settled widely across the med next week.

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>> welcome back i'm alex armstrong now conservative and labour councillors were allegedly filmed laughing and shouting at councillorjamie shouting at councillor jamie mciver as he was sharing how he feels about veterans sharing a veteran's opinions about how they feel about cancelling the election. take a look at this. >> remember the men and women who have died for this country to give us the right to vote, the right for democracy, the democracy to prevail. we are serving those people a disservice to their memory, the lives that they have lost. we serve them a disservice when we say democracy doesn't matter when money is involved. and i will wrap a treat the flag of my country that i proudly represent. >> yes, they well, you only got

to see the back of his head, but we're actually joined now by the councillor for ongar, jamie mciver. >> jamie, thank you so much for coming in. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks for having me. >> well, look, i mean, you know, this is a big thing that's been talked about in the national press. devolution across the country. labour have shoved that in right at the top of their political agenda. that's led to some councils cancelling elections. talk to us a little bit about what that means for essex where you are. >> well, what it means is yesterday the council voted to say that they wish to express an interest in going ahead with devolution and other local government reorganisation. and they also had a choice. they had a choice to ask if elections are to be cancelled. it's a government decision, ultimately a labour government decision. but the conservative run council and with support from the very small labour group, which i imagine will get very much smaller soon, decided to ask and actually vote to ask for the

elections to be cancelled in may. right. >> and listen, your your speech there you were standing up for veterans. you've got the flag with. i don't know if you can see that on the desk. you can hold up the flag. i can see that famous flag now with you, there's no better flag. >> i can think of the england flag. obviously being an english proud englishman, but i wanted to rap the petition for over 4000 people signed a resident campaigner, tom allison. really enthusiastic essex resident, did the petition and it got thousands of signatures and i wanted to give a visual to councillors in that chamber. you know, i actually asked a question are you all whipped to vote for this through? you know, because often we know that councillors vote a certain way because they're told by the leader or insecure leaders sometimes say, you know, if you don't vote for this, you know, this will happen to you or whatever. so i thought, i'll give everyone a visual reminder that we live in the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland. democracy is part of the fabric of this country. we have long standing local elections due in may. thousands of people in the county of essex want them to go

ahead.so county of essex want them to go ahead. so as you vote, here's a little visual reminder of the responsibility you have with you today. and sadly, they all decided to have a different view. with the exception, i must give some decent credit where it's due. the liberal democrats on our council actually put in an amendment to try and make sure we had elections in may that was supported by some of the independent councillors, residents association, myself as the only reform councillor, most frustratingly, to be the only reform councillor on essex county council at the moment, because i think actually a few more reformers in that chamber and democracy will have had a bit more of a say. >> well, do you feel that perhaps you know the reasons why some of these councils are voting? because they're scared of, of a, of a, of a damning electorate on the way the political establishment is at the moment. i mean, obviously robert jenrick by the way, he said that we should only be cancelling elections in exceptional circumstances. do you agree with that? >> i completely agree. i mean, to be honest, i it has to be a very exceptional circumstance. and, you know, i am very, very, very convinced actually, you know, just as somebody that

canvasses all the time, i speak to my residents all the time. i travel the county talking to people. i actually did a tour of essex ahead of this vote, and i asked people in harlow, in basildon, in maldon, in colchester, what what do they think about the idea of cancelling elections? you know, the number one thing people said was they're just scared of reform. there you go. you know people people are seeing right through this. you know, i can't categorically say that's the council's corporate reason for doing it. but what i can say is that we had a by—election just recently in essex. reform came in straight away, 35% in one of the safest conservative seats in the safest conservative seats in the county of essex. the tories did the most embarrassing. i mean, their campaign. i described it as an eton mess because that's exactly what it was. it was a total mess and they only just won with 300 votes. and as a democrat, i congratulated the successful councillor, of course, at the councillor, of course, at the council meeting this week. but what is so clear to me is reform do pose a threat. their popularity in essex is particularly strong , and i just

particularly strong, and i just think these lot of councillors are too cowardly to face the electorate in may. >> yes, well, that may very well be the case. but, you know, the government are saying, and i assume these tory councillors may also say, that devolution is going to help create jobs, productivity growth. i think you may even get a mayor at some point. so a new elected position. so is this just not party politics by reform. >> alex, you know, we've got so many problems in our country and the answer has always been more layers of politicians, always, you know, in the history of this country, you know, whenever we've got big problems, you know, more politicians and more politicians with more power has always been the answer. but i will be fair here. if devolution is something that this labour government are hell bent on doing, which it would appear they are determined to do, and very conveniently just before the elections in may. if that's the elections in may. if that's the case, then obviously it's right. essex is at the table and we get as much out of whitehall as we can. you know, i do believe i have very little time for many people that work in whitehall, because i look at the state of our country at the moment and i think, what, what have you not been doing? but if we are going to take power from whitehall and put it into essex

and have essex residents voting for essex representatives to make decisions, then i think that's a positive thing. if handled correctly, devolution can be good. but what i have to say is i'm very worried about the historic nature of our county being broken up. that's worry. >> that's really interesting. jamie, thank you so much for coming in. insightful stuff. right. well, the leader of essex county council, councillor kevin bentley, has said despite our differing political views, we all want to make essex as great as it can be for our residents and businesses. devolution is key to making this happen. it presents us with an opportunity for growth and productivity across the county like no other. all right, still to come. wes streeting went on the attack over rhetoric used to describe pakistani rape gangs. he claimed that the ongoing rhetoric risks inciting mass violence similar to that of new zealand mosque massacre. is he totally out of touch with reality or raising a valid point? well, maybe we'll find out. this is ben leo

tonight with me, alex armstrong. only on gb news. now your weather with jonathan. >> expect a warm front moving from the kitchen right through to the rest of the house. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello there. good evening. this is your gb news weather update provided by the met office. some of us did manage to see some sunshine today, but others have been seeing quite persistent fog and that will be lingering overnight and into sunday, particularly across areas of eastern england. it is going to become quite dense overnight. northern ireland as well could see some quite widespread fog. by the time we reach sunday morning. it'll be a spot of drizzle from some of this cloud in between. but if you hold on to the clear skies in the east, it is certainly going to be a very chilly night. a frost here, but something much milder to start off the second

half of the weekend further towards the west. and we really do have a quite noticeable east west split in conditions as we head throughout the day. that frost and fog will be lingering into the morning for those eastern areas, but you'll notice how different those temperatures are further towards the west seven eight degrees celsius. do be aware of this fog as it continues to persist into the daytime. there could be some travel issues around if you are heading outside at all. but again, another east west split across parts of scotland as well, particularly in the west. the winds are going to start picking up as we head throughout the day, gales developing for the day, gales developing for the outer hebrides and parts of the outer hebrides and parts of the highlands as we move towards the highlands as we move towards the afternoon and evening period, as we see outbreaks of rain arriving here, it'll be a calmer day for england and wales and there will again be some sunshine once the fog eventually clears its way off. but temperatures will struggle here again, 3 to 4 c for some of us, but again, 7 to 8 possible further towards the north—west. as we head into monday, the pressure system squeezing together will provide a very strong southwesterly wind. so it

is going to turn quite gusty for northern ireland and scotland, but it's also going to be fielding in some much milder conditions with these outbreaks of rain. so throughout the next week we're actually going to have a noticeable north to south split in our temperatures, not the one you'd normally expect, because in fact, it is going to because in fact, it is going to be the northern areas that see the mildest conditions reaching double digit figures as we move into the week, but still around average in the south. but by despite the morning rain, it'll be a nice, warm, cosy >> boxt heat pumps

well. >> good evening, i'm alex armstrong and this is ben leo tonight. don't worry if you're just tuning in. ben is going to be back in a couple of weeks. he's taking some time off with his wife and kids, but rest assured, i'm still going to be assured, i'm still going to be

as honest and straightforward as ben while i'm covering this show coming up tonight, most of the victims were white. >> most of the abusers were ethnically pakistani. fears of being seen as racist had contributed to a cover up. >> health secretary wes streeting says rhetoric around grooming gangs risks inciting mass violence. is this more deflection from the cruel truth or a valid concern? >> and a cheap trick my country that i proudly represent. >> why wasn't essex councillor heckled for standing up for veterans and democracy? >> plus we have democracy. >> plus we have democracy. >> well, i don't know. yeah. >> well, i don't know. yeah. >> are you? my question is, are you worried about democracy? >> well, it turns out quite a lot of people think elon musk is a bad influence on british democracy. what do you think? is it time to butt out? oh, and

what's going on here? >> no more empire. vladimir, you excuse my language. >> yes. boris has some very strong words of advice for putin. and as always, we've got our star panel joining us to give you their opinions on all the stories. tonight. we've got author and commentator louis oakley, political consultant suzanne evans, and journalist and broadcaster nina meshkov. oh, and how do you think the victims of the la. wildfires would feel if they saw this? >> couldn't carry my husband out of a fire, which my response is he got himself in the wrong place if i have to carry him out of a fire. >> we've got a big hour. all that and more. get ready, britain, here we go. is elon musk a risk to our

democracy? first, here's your news with will hollis. >> thanks, alex. good evening. at 10:00, a labour mp is the first to break ranks and call for a national inquiry into the grooming scandal. dan carden, the mp for liverpool walton, urged sir keir starmer to use the full power of the state to deliver justice. speaking to the liverpool echo newspaper, he called it shocking that crimes may have been covered up to avoid confronting racial or cultural issues, adding calls for an inquiry were not an obsession of the far right. urging others in the party to speak out. meanwhile, nigel farage has repeated a pledge that reform uk will pay for an inquiry into the scandal if the government continues to reject calls. speaking at the party's

nonh calls. speaking at the party's north west conference in chester, reform's leader said the abuse of children in towns across britain, perpetrated predominantly by men of pakistani heritage, was the most unique evil in his lifetime. he used his speech to criticise both the prime minister and leader of the opposition, while renewing calls for a national inquiry and criticising division inquiry and criticising division in the country of living in two tier britain, had enough of two tier britain, had enough of two tier policing, had enough of two tier policing, had enough of two tier justice, tier policing, had enough of two tierjustice, had enough of us all being divided up. well, that speech comes as ten reform councillors from derbyshire leave the party over the leadership of nigel farage. meanwhile, the health secretary has warned that the use of inflammatory language over grooming gangs risks vilifying entire communities to germany. the afd party has nominated co—leader alice weidel as

chancellor candidate at a congress live streamed on elon musk's social media platform x, she promised to close the borders and abandon eu climate policy, pledging to tear down windmills of shame. earlier, protesters clashed with delegates attending the congress in risor, the right leaning alternative for germany is polling at second ahead of the country's election in february. the sdp's candidate, olaf scholz, warns that other parties wanted to take a chainsaw to democracy. in other news, ukraine says its troops have taken two north korean soldiers prisoner in the kursk region. writing on social media platform x, president volodymyr zelenskyy said the wounded men who are fighting alongside russian forces are being treated and transported to kyiv, where journalists will be able to

speak with them. some 10,000 nonh speak with them. some 10,000 north koreans are believed to be supporting putin's armies in the defence of russia. after ukraine's surprise incursion into its territory earlier this yeah into its territory earlier this year. back in the uk, carrie johnson spent almost a week in hospital with flu and pneumonia, struggling to breathe. the wife of former prime minister boris johnson , wrote about her ordeal johnson, wrote about her ordeal on instagram that she had not yet fully recovered from the chest infection, saying her strong advice was to get the flu jab. thanking nurses who cared for her, the number of patients in hospital with flu continues to rise, quadruple the figures of last winter , and temperatures of last winter, and temperatures tonight will once again be cold, reaching —15 degrees. last night they dropped to —18.7 in the coldest january night for 15 years. the met office says the

temperature was recorded in the most northern region of the highlands. it's expected to stay chilly, with an amber cold weather alert in place until tuesday. today, football matches have been postponed. meanwhile, in derbyshire, gritters was stopped from working by 200 cars double parked on a scenic route near edale. the county council turned to social media , asking turned to social media, asking visitors to the peak district to please move your car. those are your latest headlines. at 10:00. i'll be back in one hour. >> welcome back. yesterday, wes streeting went on the attack over rhetoric used to describe pakistani rape gangs. he claims that the ongoing rhetoric risks inciting mass violence similar to that of the new zealand mosque massacre. wes streeting told the guardian there are people in my community who have

have had, have either pakistani heritage or look different, who are now more fearful today than they were before. unfortunately, wes streeting rhetoric comments are totally out of touch with reality. the time for toe toe stepping and censoring factual language to avoid offending anyone is over. it's time we confront the harsh realities, no matter how uncomfortable they might be. so was i'm talking to you directly. the censoring of factual information under the guise of it being racist, is far more destructive to our society than any so—called rhetoric. by failing to address the grooming gang crisis head on, we're allowing the continued exploitation and rape of our children. this isn't about being politically, politically correct. it's about protecting the innocent. if our authorities

had felt empowered to call out to these grooming gangs without the fear of being labelled racist, we might not be having to talk about this epidemic today. lives could have been saved and justice could have been served much sooner. keir starmers own report. your boss highlighted the same language that you are using is actually the issue. yet here we are with you asking us to dance around the truth all over again. let me be clear. no sane person is blaming the entire pakistani community. we know people of multiple ethnicities, including white people, are culpable. but it's crucial, given the facts, to acknowledge the prevalence of this issue within that specific cultural context. you cannot solve a problem by ignoring its roots. we've seen the incendiary damage the cover up culture has done to this country precisely because of the approach you as

are advocating for. and to reiterate an approach that was condemned by your own party leader's report while he led the cps. we all need to, including yourself, call out the facts plainly and without shame. only then, and only then, can this country begin to heal, to protect and prevent further tragedies. it's time to stop the cycle of silence and start the process of justice. but now let's get the thoughts of my panel let's get the thoughts of my panel. we've got political consultant suzanne evans, author and commentator louis oakley, and commentator louis oakley, and journalist and broadcaster nina myskow. listen, nina, i missed you out the first time here. don't worry. so we should start with you. look, we've seen a series of high profile politicians, including dan carden. not that long ago, dan carden. not that long ago, dan carden mp andy burnham and others breaking rank with keir starmer over this national

inquiry issue. but specifically on wes's comments. is this not a throwback to the exact same rhetoric that tony blair and others allegedly used to start this whole scandal in the first place? >> i don't think so. i think it's a different issue. i think he's seeing it in the light of the of the riots last summer. and the trouble is, people will seize on facts and so that everybody will be painted with the same brush. and i can understand if his constituents, who are of pakistani or asian origin. you know, people will look at them. you know, all any pakistani man, you will look at just getting on a tube, looking at a pakistani man. are you a rapist? are you a somebody who's part of a grooming gang? so i think he's just saying, let's put the brakes on slightly. i don't think he's he's trying to literally whitewash it, but, you know, you have to you have to remember that this is a this is a dreadful tragedy. it's a complete disgrace. it's an utter scandal. but it's not the whole story in this country. 1 in 13 engush story in this country. 1 in 13 english adults have been sexually abused as children, and the home office had a report in

2020 which said that the majority of gang led sexual abusers were white. and that's nothing to do with this. this very specific cultural thing that's happened throughout our towns. >> that's the problem, isn't it, nina? you know, because we've got you have white rapists, right? white abusers. nobody backs away from that. they're prosecuted. they get the full force of the law. the problem is that these pakistani men have had everything swept under the carpet, and that's why they have been prosecuted. well, some of them have, but there's been no prosecution. they they went unprosecuted for many, many years. the girls themselves, keir starmer actually changed the procedure so they could be prosecuted. they're not taken seriously. you know, we had cases again that charlie peters had revealed about fathers who tried to intervene. they were the ones prosecuted and hauled up before the police. there's been a massive attempt to sweep this under the rug, and that's made people justifiably angry. it's not rhetoric, it's actually unfair treatment. it's as nigel farage was talking about earlier

in his clip, it's two tier policing and that's the problem. and yeah, i don't look at a pakistani man and think, are you a member of a grooming gang? i'll be honest. but if people thinking that it's because actually they weren't treated equally, there was a kind of reverse racism that's going on, and that's now why the community is probably understandably living in fear, having been treated equally in the beginning. if they'd had the full force of the law, there wouldn't be this discrimination. >> i think there is that feeling of two tier justice being served, which has really incited people. i think people's emotions are up as a result of it. but would you, would you say wes streeting comments saying this is going to incite massacres? is that inflammatory in itself? lewis? >> i think that's an interesting point. so number one, to your point, i would say, look, stigma does stick. so there is definitely a thing of people thinking, well, they're all like it. we see that with other demographics of, you know, priests and churches and that kind of stuff and people, you

know, suspect by and large. and of course, that's not going on on, on that scale. but the problem is, as you're saying, this has been covered up for so long, so almost coming out and saying, well, hold on, we can't be prejudiced. it almost inflames the situation a little bit more, where it's like, think of the girls. those are the people that we're looking at. and i do think the reality of the situation is politicians need to be the ones that are coming down and taking the flak here and saying, look, if police officers don't think that they can do their jobs properly, can do theirjobs properly, i will find out. i will go in there and do this. and i think that that almost takes a bit of the fire that wes streeting is talking about out of the situation because it's like, oh, they've got it. they're taking care of this, actually. they're going to look at it. and if wes streeting is going in, i know it'll be sorted out. that's what you want. and that's not sort of i think what we're getting. >> well, suzanne, would you would you think that we should see more leaders from the pakistani community, for example, coming out and speaking about this? because would that not take the fuel out of the fire? >> it absolutely would. >> it absolutely would. >> and that's the other thing

that's been very obvious. unfortunately, right from the beginning, when these stories broke so many years ago now, is that you didn't have that condemnation from the, i'm afraid, very often self—appointed male community leaders in this, in this, this, this, this demographic, they didn't come out against it. they wanted to keep their own noses clean and hide it under the carpet as well. and that's a problem. but just going back to what wes streeting said, you know, it's completely tone deaf, as was what david lammy said earlier on on a radio interview, he said, oh, i'm fed up of talking about this. basically, i'm paraphrasing. i'm fed up about talking this. ask me about something else. completely tone deaf labour mp dan carden. he's got it right. he's got the tone right. he's recognised what needs to be done and good for him, because it takes a lot of guts to break away from your party. >> it really does. i mean, i sometimes get the impression that people like andy burnham are perhaps, you know, i don't know, doing this for their own political careers. i'm not sure, but but, nina, listen, i think there is a leadership challenge thing going on. >> the thing is another issue.

>> the thing is another issue. >> wes streeting trying to balance, you know, people like robert jenrick, who is so nakedly ambitious he could eat himself, quite frankly. but but his rhetoric has been so over the top that you do need other people to say other things to balance. you really do . balance. you really do. >> well. so i was going to ask you, is this just labour trying to counterbalance people like jenrick, or are we seeing a situation where labour are losing the communication of the country, where the country feels so strongly about this topic? they just want to say it as it is. >> nina, i think that's partially it, but he may well just have many, many constituents who are pakistanis who feel completely, you know, terrified by what's going on. >> that's another interesting point, isn't it? because wes streeting, of course, is very much under threat at the general election from the independent muslim votes. he won his seat by 600 votes. so he's obviously feeling the pressure, i think, from that. >> and it's not just wes streeting, it's yvette cooper and others as well. >> louis, i think it's multifaceted part of it. >> i think it's multifaceted.

but what i've noticed with this particular labour government is they just have the blinders on and they're just going with their own agenda. they haven't u—turned on anything yet. and i think that almost these what you could describe as left field issues, things that weren't in their manifesto, things they didn't plan on. they always just like, well, get get rid of that. we just want to crack on with what we want to do. and it's like, well, that's just not how politics works. sometimes things you thought had been dealt with obviously not very well, come up like it was literally this time last year. it was the mr beats documentary, and that brought up the whole thing of the post office again, which had been out. we all knew about it, but it pulled it into the into the pubuc it pulled it into the into the public consciousness. and that's what they've got to do. they've got to be seen to be reacting to the british public's needs in that moment. >> they're not there. >> they're not there. >> i think that i think they're still in their early stages because they've waited for 14 years and they're desperate to move on with this. and they haven't quite got the tone right. i think, you know, keir starmer is not a like farage. as we said earlier, a natural politician. and he needs to somehow get a grip of that and communicate better.

>> yeah i couldn't agree more with you. but thanks to the panel here for your comments, we're going to be back with you shortly for the papers and other things too. but coming up, more on this scandal with a renowned child abuse solicitor who worked on a team representing more than 100 survivors in rotherham. this is ben leo tonight with alex armstrong only on gb news.

this is ben leo tonight with me alex armstrong live on gb news now. more on this deeply troubling issue that continues to affect communities across the country. grooming gangs. they manipulate vulnerable young people, often in targeted and organised operations. the victims are subject to abuse, coercion and trafficking, which many continue to suffer in silence. our health

secretary, wes streeting, has warned or warned of the use of inflammatory language over grooming, gang risks vilifying entire communities. he also says he fears rhetoric could lead to atrocities similar to the christchurch mosque shootings in new zealand, which killed more than 50 people. wes streeting told the guardian there are people in my community who have either pakistani heritage or look different, who are more fearful today than they were before. are those legitimate concerns or mere whitewashing of the issue? i'm joined now by child abuse solicitor david greenwood, who has worked on a team representing more than 100 survivors in rotherham. david, welcome to the show. listen, where's this been? pretty forthcoming with his statement in the guardian. he's reiterated it on x. is it rhetoric too inflammatory right now. are we,

you know offending pakistani communities. are we tarring them all with the same brush. >> well i think this this this wes streeting is blowing the whole thing out of proportion to compare the situation with a potentially causing a massacre like we saw in in new zealand is way out of proportion. >> the last i knew of the law, we had freedom of speech in this country. we can exercise it how we like so long as we don't break the law. there are laws against inflaming racial hatred, and i'm sure that the police will clamp down on people in the same way that they did with the woman who made some awful comments about the stockport issue. and we'll we'll arrest people and lock them up if they break the law. i think i think

he's gone way over the top with this. yeah. it's fair to say that that the grooming gangs issue has been an issue for a long time, and it hasn't been really grasped properly yet. but to say that that the most reasonable people in this country are tarring whole communities with the same brush is a distortion of the truth. most reasonable people in this country recognise that it's a small group of criminals that are committing these acts, and to do anything other than call them criminals is just not right at the moment. we simply don't have the data to say who's doing it. there are eastern europeans doing it or white people doing it? >> yeah, yeah, it's a pretty broad, broad brush when it comes to offences in this country. and i was saying that in my

monologue. how do you i mean, look, you've worked with hundreds of victims over your time on, on on this sort of topic. how do you think they would receive wes streeting comments in the guardian? >> well, the women that i've, i've worked with and spoken to, as you can imagine, have fairly strong views about this. they want it to stop. they want to protect future generations. and so everything that can be can be thrown at it. they i think most of them would want that. but we have to recognise that they unfortunately have been subjected to this awful crime and we'll have a way of looking at it. you know, we have to deal with it through the prism of law enforcement. and unless we're reasonable with our law enforcement, the whole thing is going to get out of control. we are going to have something like some kind of terrorist activity

on our shores. we don't want that. so we need to recognise that. so we need to recognise that most people in the country view this as simply a crime. the police need to step up, keep. to be fair to the police, they have been doing some really excellent work in tracking down 1198