down version of the university free speech law that it originally scrapped. i will be revealing tonight the inside story of the original law that i helped to write, and why this change won't go far enough to defend free speech. meanwhile, the reform party is not only one point behind labour in the national polls, but it's also the most popular party with the working class. i will be asking a disgruntled labour trade unionist about why that is. plus, unfortunately i will not be here for the rest of the week, but i will be explaining why in due course. it might have something to do with what's happening in america involving a certain donald trump and a certain donald trump and a certain nigel farage. we will be heading stateside at the end of this program. to hear from a top trump insider about what is about to happen in the united states of america. that is state of the nation with me. matt goodwin starts right now.

now, i'll also be joined tonight by my panel columnist and former mep patrick o'flynn and historian and broadcaster tessa dunlop. as ever, let me know your views at gbnews.com/yoursay and hit me up on x at goodwin mj. but now it's time for the news bulletin with sam francis. >> matt, thank you and good evening to you. just after 8:00, the top story tonight, after 15 months of intense war, israel and hamas have now agreed to a ceasefire and hostage release deal ceasefire and hostage release deal. president biden in the united states confirmed that plan just moments ago, at long last, i can announce a ceasefire and a hostage deal has been reached between israel and hamas. >> for more than 15 months of conflict that began with hezbollah's brutal massacre on october the 7th, more than 15

months of terror for the hostages, their families, the israeli people. more than 15 months of suffering by the innocent people of gaza fighting innocent people of gaza fighting in gaza will stop. and soon the hostages will return home to their families. >> well, the deal, expected to start on sunday, involves releasing 33 israeli hostages in exchange for palestinian prisoners and a surge of humanitarian aid into gaza. negotiations for the next second phase, full troop withdrawal, more hostage releases and lasting peace are then set to begin. two weeks into that truce. here, meanwhile, sir keir starmer and kemi badenoch have continued clashing over the economy today, trading blows on debt, tax hikes and leadership stability. badenoch warned the uk is spending more on debt than on schools and hospitals, and accused labour, the labour chancellor, of being unqualified and planning costly tax rises.

>> his chancellor ignored all the warnings and ploughed ahead with an unprecedented borrowing spree, leaving all of us more vulnerable. now we have businesses saying they will raise prices to cover his jobs tax. we have an energy policy that will drive up bills and all the while we are spending more day to day on debt interest than we do on schools and universities. the prime minister. the prime minister refused to repeat his chancellor's promise that she wouldn't come back for more. will he now rule out any new tax rises this year? >> in response, sir keir starmer called the conservatives economic vandals and blamed them for a £22 billion black hole and what he described as the worst cost of living crisis in living memory. the prime minister also, though, defended rachel reeves, calling fiscal rules ironclad, but refused to rule out march tax hikes amid rising borrowing costs. >> we had to deal with the £22

billion black hole that they left. the chancellor will be in place for many, many years to come. she'll outstrip them and. >> mr speaker, if we all thought that politics was about cheap votes, i could criticise their chances. >> but i don't have enough time to go through all of the chancellors that they had. we have one budget. that is what we are committed to, strong fiscal rules, and we will stick to them. unlike the party opposite. >> police are investigating after a woman reported her drink was spiked in a bar at the houses of parliament. the parliamentary researcher made the complaint to staff and security on the 7th of january, just days after mps returned from their christmas break. well, the met police say they are now supporting the victim and have confirmed an investigation is underway, though no arrests have been made so far. the home secretary, yvette cooper, has condemned the act as disturbing and serious, and the government is reviving a

controversial free speech law for universities, just months after it was paused over concerns about protecting hate speech. the higher education freedom of speech act, passed in 2023, gave universities a duty to promote free speech and allow the regulator to fine institutions or student unions that failed to comply. critics, though, including education secretary bridget phillipson, paused that law last summer, warning it could expose universities to costly legal action. now, a government source says the act will be adjusted to balance academic freedom with a proper complaints process. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'll be back with you in an hour. now, though, it's over to matt for the very latest. >> gb news direct to your smartphone. sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com/alerts.

>> welcome back to state of the nafion >> welcome back to state of the nation with me, matt goodwin. now, after 15 months of war since the 7th of october attacks, a ceasefire deal between israel and hamas has been reached. the deal is expected to include the return of all of the israeli hostages held by hamas, with israel offering palestinian detainees in exchange. israeli soldiers will also be phased out of gaza. donald trump wrote on truth social we have a deal for the hostages in the middle east. they will be released shortly. thank you. now to discuss this, i'm joined by orit al fayed mish, co—founder of the 7th of october human chain, the organisation that has campaigned ever since. those hideous and horrific attacks for the return of the hostages. ari, thank you for joining us tonight. can forjoining us tonight. can i just get your initial reaction to the events of today? as somebody who's campaigned for the return of the hostages, initial reaction is happiness mixed with anxiety and horror.

>> to be honest, i am a mother of a 24 year old and a 22 year old. so they are the age of some of those hostages. this has been keeping me up at night for so long, and i can't even imagine what those parents must be feeling. so it's a mixture of happiness and satisfaction that we are finally there, but also great anxiety as to the state of those hostages, whether they are alive, whether they are dead, god forbid. and yeah, it's a turmoil of emotions, really. >> and just tell us a bit, if you can, about how you think this is now going to play out in israel. i mean, for viewers who won't be familiar with the pubuc won't be familiar with the public mood in israel, particularly regarding the government, particularly regarding the future development of this issue. i mean, where do you how do you see things unfolding over the coming weeks? >> i think what you need to

understand about israel is that at the end of the day, despite the difference of opinions, and there are many different opinions, those who oppose netanyahu and those who support netanyahu's government. and we are a young country. we are a country of people who came to israel from mostly unfortunate circumstances. you know, my parents and grandparents are holocaust survivors, and there is this a common understanding that there isn't another place for the jewish people. and when things come to this kind of existential threat, and despite the differences, we all come together. we all fight together. we were all traumatised in the same way as a nation. and so i think the differences will remain, obviously, and conclusions will be made at a later stage. but for now, we will all focus on on getting those hostages home. and as a

nation, we are looking at a long heaung nation, we are looking at a long healing process. there's not only tens of thousands of soldiers on the israeli side who are decapitated and lost sight, and mental issues there, but there are generations of people who have been affected by this all, and we have to rebuild a lot of what has been taken away from us. >> and just just bringing this to the uk, if i may. obviously, since the seventh, we've seen what many people watching this program will feel were pretty horrific scenes here in the uk. marches, demonstrations, protests, singing of, you know, songs and anti—semitism. many british jews feeling as though they are really in a hostile environment. how will these events today play into that? i mean, how is how is this going to affect the dynamics of this conflict here on the streets of britain? >> i think it will take time and

for us to see the effect of what's been happening. it will also depend greatly on the results, on the outcome of this long and tedious and nerve wracking process that we are all which will hopefully start on sunday. and the anti the anti—semitism is a problem. it's anti—semitism is a problem. it's a genuine problem and whilst i can maybe understand why the issue had risen, i do not agree with with the way it's being done. and i think we are allowed to feel safe here in the same way that many others do, and we will, in the same way that the israeli nation will have to heal israeli nation will have to heal. i think that the jewish people and the diaspora in the world will have to find a way to, to explain and to recover from, from, from all of this. and the muslims will also need to come to terms with the fact that israel and israelis are here to stay, and the jewish people are here to stay. and in

the same way, the palestinians, 2.2 million palestinians are not going to disappear. and the israelis and the jewish people are not going to disappear ehhen are not going to disappear either. so they will have to be away. we will have to find the time at some point to focus on on a solution, on a, on a lasting. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and if i may, you're in touch with the families. you're in touch with the relatives of the hostages. i mean, this must have been an absolutely horrific ordeal. ordeal? i can't imagine what those families have gone through, what's going on in their minds now? i mean, paint us a picture as to what are they talking about and how are they thinking and feeling about this? >> i think it's everything that you and i can imagine just just times, hundreds and more. you know, there are very fearful. i don't even know if they are able, at this point to feel happiness. there must be a sense

of relief. but the anxiety and the uncertainty and the question marks as to how they are and what stage and what state they are, is probably a taking some things. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> yeah. well, my heart goes out to all of the families and the relatives and also, you know, my best wishes to your organisation that has campaigned so consistently on this issue. and thank you for coming on the show this evening and what is going to be seen as a historic day after the break, we're going to be looking at labour's war on free speech in this country as it attempts to crawl back on its decision to scrap a free speech law, which, get this, i actually helped to implement. but now bridget phillipson and labour are saying they're going to bnng are saying they're going to bring back, but the important bits. join me in a couple of minutes and we'll

welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation with me, matt goodwin. now, keir starmer and the labour government has reintroduced a university free speech law after get this initially scrapping it. the new version is a heavily watered down version of the original law that i helped create with other academics in the universities who were fed up with cancel culture and woke ideology. in fact, i elaborate on many of those issues in a book next month. but the wider problem here is not just what's going on in our universities, it's what's going on in the battle for free speech in this country. just think about everything that we've seen since the labour government came to power. we've seen people being thrown into prison for sharing memes, for sharing offensive views on social media and the privacy of their own homes. we've seen much discussion of this new definition of islamophobia, which includes

references to the rape gangs as an example of islamophobia, a move that many people see as an attempt to clamp down on any criticism of islam and cultural practices within muslim communities. we've seen this new workers rights charter, which you might have seen in the newspapers yesterday, because it could ban pub banter if you're caught talking about controversial issues such as transgender ideology or the rape gangsin transgender ideology or the rape gangs in a pub, and a worker decides that that's harassment, they could, in theory, sue that pub or that restaurant for having offended their views. we've also seen people like yvette cooper, the labour home secretary, talking about wanting to expand non—crime hate incidents. these rather orwellian measures that many people think are designed to clamp down on free speech and free expression in our country. we've also seen plans for a trans inclusive conversion

therapy ban. and of course, who could forget the time that a labour mp stood up in the house of commons and called in britain for blasphemy laws, and our prime minister, keir starmer, didn't even rule it out? check out this clip for a moment. it's quite striking. >> will the prime minister commit to introducing measures to prohibit the desecration of all religious texts and the prophets of the abrahamic religions? >> can i agree with him that desecration is awful and i think should be condemned across the house? >> i'm sorry, but do we leave? and do we live in britain, the home of individual liberty, the home of individual liberty, the home of individual liberty, the home of common law, the home of free expression? or do we live in some sort of authoritarian state? because over the last few months, we've also seen keir starmer and other people within the labour government decide that millions of people in britain are far right for discussing issues like the rape

gangs, and we've also seen them complain about foreign interference by people like elon musk, while sending their activists to america to campaign on behalf of kamala harris. or, as we saw with keir starmer's chief of staff, morgan mcsweeney's company, the centre for countering digital hate, which he helped to found actively talking about killing elon musk's twitter or x platform. so what i'm trying to say here is labour's war on free speech is both visible, but it's also here to stay. and i think we can see it now in the universities. as always, let me know your views via gbnews.com/yoursay or tweet me at goodwin mj but i'm joined in the studio now by professor of politics at the university of buckingham, eric kaufmann, who also looks after the only anti—woke research centre in the uk, which has been offering programmes to people who are interested in studying woke ideology. and eric has done more than most a campaign to defend free speech in our universities.

so, eric, welcome to the show. today. lots of people out there will have read about labour's reintroduction of this free speech law. labour now will say they're defending free speech in they're defending free speech in the universities. it's not quite what it seems though, is it. >> no, no. they introduced this partly because there's a judicial review coming up and also because of pressure in the media and from from academics and open letters. but the reality is this is a toothless bill and it's toothless in four ways. i mean, the first thing is that student unions, who are chief culprit when it comes to no platforming, are no longer covered. students can no longer appeal to the office to an ombudsman. students are now excluded. third, they've taken away the right to a statutory tort so universities can ignore rulings by the. >> so just on that. so the important part of the original law which was brought in under the conservative government was that basically universities that violated free speech, that violated free speech, that violated the freedom of academics to research whatever they wanted, those universities could be fined, which would incentivise them to protect free

speech. but now what you're saying is labour has removed that threat of punishment, that threat of financial sanctions. so therefore, if you're a university vice chancellor or you're, let's say, a woke bureaucrat, do you really care any more about protecting free speech? >> well, you can't be sued if you ignore the rulings. now, technically there is still the right to fine. but here's the most ominous thing is bridget phillipson has just recently, in a piece in the times higher, suggested that political appointments were at work in the past, and that's something she's going to look into. the coded message there is that arif ahmed, who's the free speech tsar? the director of the academic freedom directorate, is more or less going to be on a tight leash. and so what i think that's going to mean is when arif goes to universities and says, oh, your policies are not compliant with the act, he's going to be sort of rapped on the knuckles. a hand will come on the shoulder, and there's no way he's going to be allowed to find people. >> so let's just step out a minute. so what what we've got in universities in britain, which most people won't be aware, we've got this creeping

cancel culture, we've got this creeping woke ideology. we've got the fact that universities now lean overwhelmingly to the left. i think i'm right in saying that about 80, 85% of academics identify on the left of politics today. you've got lots of students self—censoring, hiding their views, concealing their views because they're scared of speaking up. and now we've got a labour government that's basically removing all of the venom, if you like, from this new law, which means that the status quo is going to carry on. is that right? >> essentially, yes. i think we should expect to see a continuation of the cancellations and the no platforming, because they've really defanged this bill because they don't believe in it. i mean, they opposed it tooth and nail in parliament, in the lords, they said it was a, you know, forces inside or people in the government said this was a hate speech charter. you look at the lobbies, the university of university college union, which is the main lecturers union, very radical at the top. you look at universities uk, they all oppose this bill. and let's face it, if we sort of step back, you just mentioned about a number of cnses mentioned about a number of crises in free speech in

britain, social justice is a much higher value than freedom of speech for the left. >> so for people on the left, what you're saying is their ideological project is more important to them than defending free speech and free expression. that that is what differentiates people on the left from people on the right. >> yeah. and just to translate for the listeners or the viewers here, social justice essentially means protecting one's emotions from harm. so if speech harms a very sensitive individual, that individual's so—called emotional safety has been compromised. if they're a member of a so—called historically marginalised group. so protecting members of historically marginalised groups from speech they don't want to hearis from speech they don't want to hear is more important than allowing speech. >> and yeah, okay, so let me ask a devil's advocate question here for a minute. lots of people watching this show will say, well, we've talked about censorship on campus, academics being sacked, people being disinvited for decades. right. people watching the show will remember similar debates in the

70s and the 80s. is it really that bad on university campus today? they will ask. and in fact, labour mps, i'm sure will say in response to this show, well, matt, you know, show me, you know, the big the big scandals. show me the, the hundreds of students being marched off campus or whatever. i mean, is it really that bad? >> it is really that bad. matt. and i think we have many different ways of measuring it. i mean, one, yes, there are prominent people who get cancelled, like kathleen stock and amber rudd and so on. but for every one of those, we have thousands of academics whose speech is chilled. so 1 in 10 academics say they have either been punished or threatened with punishment for speech. we have members of political minorities, gender critical feminists. conservatives are far more likely to worry. i'll give you a good example of how much chilled speech is going on. only1 in 5 speech is going on. only 1 in 5 brexit. supporting academics in the social sciences say they would be willing to express that view to us. well that's me. >> well that's me. i was a brexit supporting academic in

the social sciences, so only 1 in 5 would be able to share their views, would would be willing to share their views, their views. >> and for students it's 2 in 5 brexit supporting students. >> so but what about if you're a remainer. if i was a remain supporting academic in a social science, it's about 90% 90% would feel comfortable 90 versus what is that 2020 versus 90. so okay just quickly what happens if we don't fix the universities? >> well, we will continue to have a narrowing of viewpoint diversity. we will not have the knowledge production system will be systematically skewed and biased. certain questions won't be asked. certain views will be barred. i mean, can you actually investigate? are puberty blockers effective? could you say, well, actually they do more harm than good and publish that and have that view as an academic today? probably not. >> absolutely. fascinating stuff. and as always, you know, being having gone through the universities myself for 20 years, you know, i've lived this ride, i've seen the hostility, i've seen the intolerance on campus. and i think what we're going to see here is a labour

government coming out in the next few days and weeks saying, well, we are defending free speech on campus. we are defending free expression. but actually in reality, what they're doing is taking taking they're doing is taking taking the teeth out of this law and making it almost impossible to reinforce. so eric hoffman, thank you for coming on state of the nation with me, matt goodwin, tonight. well, after the break, we're going to be talking about a whole load of other interesting stuff, including whether the reform party is the new party of the working class. we're going to be talking to a labour trade unionist about that, and then we're going to be going over to washington to hear trump, too. so join me in couple of minutes. see

welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation with me, matt goodwin. now we've had some viewer reactions to our discussion just now on cancel culture in the universities. john says we are being forced to accept what we don't want or agree with what is

going on here. censorship and liberty removal. we are going backwards. and patricia says nothing and no one will ever stop me from speaking my free speech. patricia, i agree with you completely. now turning to another story. the reform party had another good week this week in the national polls, coming within one point of the labour party. it's been joint number one in some of the polling recently. but one of the more interesting aspects about this, which very few people have picked up on, is that the reform party is now also in the latest yougov poll, the most popular political party among the working class. not quite what you'd expect, given some of the coverage of the party in the mainstream media. now i'm joined tonight by paul embery, a labour supporting trade unionist. paul, what is going on? why is the working class flocking to nigel farage and reform? what's your view? >> well good evening matt. i mean, the truth is the old if

you like, industrial working class element of the labour party has been hollowing out of the party for about the last 30 years. i don't think that's anything new, particularly because the party has gradually become a party for the professional and managerial classes. i say that as a member of the labour party and a trade unionist, and largely a party for people living in our fashionable cities and our university towns, and i think people in what you might call small town britain, post—industrial britain, britain beyond the m25, increasingly britain, you might say, well, quite an increasingly found it hard to identify with the labour party. and they started shifting their votes elsewhere or in many cases, as you know, matt just stopped voting altogether. and the truth is that today there is a massive cultural disconnect, i

think, between large elements of the labour party, particularly its upper echelons and those ordinary working class communities. and we shouldn't be fooled by the election result last july, the c to ds, which, as you know, is the occupational working class. they, the labour party, only got 33%, which was exactly the same as they got in 2019. the industrial working class, the occupational working class, the occupational working class did not vote for labour in any greater numbers last time. >> can i just quickly can i just quickly pick you up on this? because this isn't just about britain, is it? across western nations, workers have been flocking to anti—establishment parties. but there's something going on at the moment with keir starmer. you know, this sort of tendency to dismiss everybody as far right and not really deal with the underlying issues around migration, globalisation. do you think starmer has actually exacerbating the defection of workers away from the big parties to reform? >> well, look, we have to remember that starmer, in my view, is very much a tony blair

sort of figure. he's a north london liberal lawyer. he doesn't particularly understand the impulses of working class, blue collar britain. and i think when they when they experience the views and the priorities of working class britain, it's almost like they see it as a mob that needs to be curtailed and needs to be held back. and that's the difficulty for the labour party that they simply are not in touch in the way that the labour party was once upon a time. whether you agree with it or not, it was a party that understood the working class. starmer has bet the farm on getting growth and getting immigration down and fixing the national health service. now, six months into this labour government, there's precious little sign of any progress on any of those things. and if they don't start making progress soon, the reality is that the likes of reform, which are well placed in a lot of labour constituencies, came second in 89 labour constituencies, 60 of which were in the north of england. that that reform wolf

is at the door. and if labour doesn't make progress on those key issues, then reform could be a real threat. >> well thanks, paul. >> well thanks, paul. >> insightful as ever. i recommend your book despised as well, which really had an impact on my own thinking. let's just bnngin on my own thinking. let's just bring in the panel for a second. patrick o'flynn. i mean, there's something going on. workers are going to reform, but there is a tension here, don't you think? with working class voters often leaning a little bit left to the economy, right, a little bit right on culture? but do you think reform has got the policy mix to actually win those voters and hold those voters, given that many reform mps are of a more thatcherite ethos? >> i don't think at the moment the reform is being judged on its on fully worked out policies. i think working class voters now have had quite a long relationship with nigel farage and have quite a degree of respect for him. i think they're in a mood that the system is not working. neither of the established parties have done anything for either their private living standards or what you might call social living

standards for a decade or more. and the idea of nigel farage being someone who upsets the establishment is quite popular among working class voters. i think also, there are a lot less easy to browbeat by people you might call the intelligentsia saying these aren't respectable people to vote for. so i think nigel's always done well with working class voters, you know, and at the moment the other parties are just not offering anything. >> tessa, this is a real problem here for the labour party, isn't it? i mean, i could i could see the red wall at the next general election going to reform. i mean, i could see this becoming an enormous problem for labour as well as wales, by the way. i mean, you know, reform in the welsh polling is looking pretty strong. >> it's interesting because history tells us that when people are feeling down on their luck, and i think britain has been feeling that way for the best bit of a decade, really. there's a tendency for fringe parties to rise up. we saw it with the sdlp, with the

liberals, the return of the liberal party in the 70s and the 80s. they were coming in in the early 80s, around between 19 to 30%, almost 25 here. yeah, a real challenge. but a protest vote predominantly. what happened about 40 years ago was against what the perceived establishment was doing. >> and is it a protest vote, do you think? >> i continue to believe that the option of reform, given our first past the post system at the moment, yeah. nigel farage is the trump whisperer. he's here, he's there, he's everywhere. but he's got five seats now to become a valid threat to the labour party in the next election, he's going to have to do a lot more than five seats. he's more of a threat, i think, to the fabric of the tory party chipping away at possible seats they can win back off. >> liberals and patrick come in here. >> i mean is that i disagree with that. i think actually a lot's happened since the election and i think first past the post you can correctly depict as a suppressor of insurgent parties. but if you

reach a certain level in the polls, reform is now averaging. i looked at poll trackers at 24 on some of them, and no other party is over 30%. you know, suddenly it can start paying out a lot of seats. if reform can add another five points, it can suddenly win literally hundreds of seats. i think i might on less than tessa jowell. >> i think i'm right in saying the magic number for reform here is about 32%. now they're polling 25. if they get to 32% finishing ahead of the conservatives, you could see what we saw in the early 20th century. remember when labour replaced the liberals as the second party? >> but that was because you had the expansion of male suffrage. you had women entering the vote. you had women entering the vote. you had women entering the vote. you had a big shift in the industrial economy. >> now you have mass immigration and broken borders. >> but i don't see those mass immigrants voting for reform. >> no, but i see a lot of the british people voting for reform. >> well, certainly there's cultural shifts. we saw in the 60s when there was a migration in from the commonwealth countries. we saw that resulting

in a complexity in the way people approach the ballot box. but i still don't see reform as more than a protest vote riding that common tiger of migration. let me just see them having the answer to that protest point. >> if you survey reform voters, as i've done, the top two issues for voting reform, stopping the boats, lowering mass immigration, ending mass immigration, ending mass immigration, that is a vote for something, a protest vote, patrick, implies that it's a vote against something. >> yes. i mean, you could say it's a protest vote as well, because it's protesting against establishment parties who neither have delivered nor are going to deliver either of those two key points. and i think while nigel farage might not have the fully worked out next manifesto policies, what he does have is enormous amounts of credibility. based on a track record of 25 years of arguing about the downsides of excessive immigration, both legal and illegal at a time. and, you know, i was one of those who was doing it as well as a as a media

person at a time when that was very unfashionable and very stigmatising. and, you know, he talked about free speech earlier. there was a lot of pressure not to tackle those issues. nigel is one of the very few people who did. >> i mean, i was reading an essay recently by marco rubio, the american senator, who was trying to explain why donald trump is so popular among the working class and what rubio was saying, and i think it applies here, is he says it isn't just about immigration. it's the fact that the working class in western nations have been smashed apart by globalisation and sneered at, but also smashed apart by net zero. i mean, these are the guys who are paying ulez fees. these are the guys who are getting hammered by low traffic neighbourhoods. these are the guys who are getting the energy bills and having to pay, and these are the guys who are getting told that they're racist, that they're gammons, that they're garbage, are deplorables, simply for expressing their views. >> i think there has been a communal sneer against certain parts of predominantly white britain. >> i've seen it in universities. >> i've seen it in universities. >> i've seen it in universities. >> i concede that, i think to pile it on to net zero is

disingenuous. you know, we've got fuel. arguably, we've got energy insecurities that result in very high bills. but in fact, a lot of the low picking fruit that david cameron did, you know, closing down dinosaur gas stations hasn't, hasn't really been the reason for high fuel prices. that's because of the ukraine war and our failure to back up the national grid more effectively. so i think that's a bit of a straw man. just quickly on your your idea that reform is for things i actually perceive reform to be against the small boats. but if you drill into the small boats idea, it's more of a kind of cultural notion in terms of the vast balloon of migration. it's a spectre. >> it's less than a tent. it's a violating of the social contract that you can gatecrash a country and access its benefits, its social housing, get put up in hotels when people who are of that nation are freezing to death on the streets. working class voters in particular, will not put up with terms of that

delivering real change, actual cost of living, lifestyle benefits for your average joe, voting either reform or labour at the next election. >> i don't believe cost of living benefits. >> we're paying £5.5 billion a year on our broken asylum system. how many winter fuel payments could that cover for britain's pensioners? £5.5 billion a year. it's bonkers. so when you say, well, the small boats is a small part of the migration, the point about the small boats crisis, i think patrick maybe came to it is it really violates the british sense of fair play that is foundational to our culture, that you have to play by the rules. you have to respect your your peers, your neighbours. and if you're breaking the law, your first act on coming into the country is to break the law that flies in the face of our sense of fairness. >> the high, the high bar that we have erected for many asylum seekers means it's extremely expensive to keep them back. but just quickly. if you look at the stagnating german economy, one of the key reasons is the shortage of labour. so this idea that you're going to have net

migration, no migration, actually the shortage of labour means you can't grow getting data all the time in this country now dribbling out about how inept our selection of migrants has been. >> we've gone for mass migration, not skilled migration. and the majority of migrants who've come in haven't been making, you know, significant economic contributions, often making no economic contribution. >> absolutely. well, look, this debate is going to carry on. i think, you know, low skilled migration is absolutely something we've talked about right here on this show. thank you to my panel for their thoughts. as always, let me know what you think too. after the break, i'm going to be revealing why i am off for the rest of the week heading to washington with somebody you might have heard of, and i'm going to be talking to a guest from washington who knows a lot more than most people about what to expect from trump to come back in a few minutes. you're not going to want to miss this one. see you shortly.

>> dinner under the stars tonight. >> that reminds me of our travel insurance. >> you mean all clear skies, all clear. >> travel insurance sponsors, gb news travel destinations forecast. >> storm felix is set to affect central parts of the mediterranean, bringing some rain, mountain snow and also strong winds. but further west largely settled for the canary islands, madeira, portugal and also most of spain. but towards the eastern coast we could see some heavy showers here, the heaviest likely across sicily and parts of sardinia, and also likely to see some mountain snow across the highest parts of italy and also greece. towards the weekend, though largely settled and temperatures remaining around the same r allclear travel sponsoi's sponsors gb news travel. >> welcome back to state of the

nafion >> welcome back to state of the nation with me, matt goodwin. now, as promised, i said i would

explain why i won't be here for the rest of the week. tomorrow i am flying off to washington, dc. one of the things i'm doing, i'll be attending nigel farage's party in advance of donald trump's inauguration on monday, meeting with some american politicians. and who knows, maybe some of the attendees might just end up on this show at some point soon. but a trump presidency has huge ramifications for british politics, not least because it could act as a deterrent against some of the more radical progressive policies that keir starmer and his labour government are imposing on the rest of us. the chagos islands dealis rest of us. the chagos islands deal is perhaps the perfect example. now, tonight, i'm happy to say i'm joined by the editor of the national pulse and key trump insider raheem kassam, live from capitol hill in washington dc. raheem, thanks for joining the show. >> professor. thank you for having me. >> so you are closer to the trump camp than pretty much everybody watching this show, and a lot more. pretty much everybody in westminster. just give us a view, if you could. from washington, trump to we're

on the cusp of trump two. how is this going to be different, do you think from trump one. >> yeah, it's a it's an amazing question. and it's an amazing thing to think about because, you know, people will recall back in 2016 the victory was very much a shock victory. it even shocked president elect donald trump back then. i remember when nigel farage and i went up to see him in the penthouse at trump tower, you know, the famous golden elevator picture now. and the first thing he said to us was, is this a big deal? and we sort of were taken aback by the question and said, is what a big deal? he says, me winning. is that a big deal? and he you could tell that he couldn't quite get his head around it. well, none of that trepidation, none of that surprise is built into this. they really ran a campaign that was ready for governing. day one. there are all sorts of personnel issues that are still being worked through, and there's thousands and thousands

of positions to fill. but when it comes to day one, going into the oval office, there is already a long list of executive actions. there is already a long list of demands from congress and where president trump will require the cooperation of congress, for instance, on the border wall and appropriating funds and all of that. but the wider answer to your question is, you know, last time they weren't ready. this time they're hyper ready. yeah, yeah. >> rahim, if i can. so, you know, ready for government, you know, ready for government, you know, ready for government, you know, ready to take on the state, ready to build the wall, etc. there's a lot of people watching this show who will nofice watching this show who will notice that one person who won't be at the inauguration will be keir starmer. also, by the way, i think i'm right in saying peter mandelson. give us a sense as to what the trump camp are thinking and feeling when it comes to our labour government. >> well, i have to tell you, and it doesn't fill me with any glee to talk about it this way, because i am obviously interested in what's best for my home country, the united kingdom. but unfortunately, the

labour apparatus, the labour staffers that have been sent down to sunny palm beach to kind of work the rooms over there, from my understanding, are getting pretty short shrift. now, i will caveat that by saying, if you've ever met president trump, if you if you've encountered him, if you've encountered him, if you've worked with him, people will know. and i've met him many, many times, will know that he's actually a pretty magnanimous person face to face. he's very welcoming, he's quite gentle. and so he will be trying to elicit the best out of them as possible. the problem is, you've obviously got everything that the labour party was doing throughout the campaign. you've now got a labour party that's at odds with the united states over many, many geopolitical issues. so people around president trump are sort of looking at that and going, i'm not so sure how well we can work with you guys. >> interesting. well, fascinating stuff straight from washington, raheem kassam, do check him out on social media. he's always ahead of the curve. patrick, if i can, just building

on what raheem was saying there. i mean, we have this remarkable situation. we've got a very pro—britain president coming into the white house. you know, pro uk team uk has got, you know, lots of investments here. but we've also got government, you know, that just seems completely incapable of sort of welcoming president trump with open arms. i mean, how do you see the special relationship going over the next few weeks and months? >> i think it's going to be very bumpy. i actually, and most of the people watching at home will probably not agree with me. i actually think peter mandelson is a vastly more sophisticated operator than almost anyone in this terrible labour government. >> and that's not saying much. >> and that's not saying much. >> no, it's possibly not saying much. but i do think he he will try and turn on the charm. he he won't berate trump. i do think that he has a better chance than some of the other possible ambassadors of forging a decent working relationship. >> sure. tesla, if i may. i mean, do you read the room the

same way, or do you think actually, maybe, you know, we've got we've got nigel farage. let's be frank, who's become a sort of, you know, almost unofficial conduit through to president elect trump. and arguably, farage estate is going to be enhanced. i mean, keir starmer seems to be out of touch with this president. >> yeah. but first among equals, he's he's not a president keir starmer, he's a prime minister. i think trump's always going to have. well he is yeah. and one who has a thumping majority. love it or love it or loathe it. but he's always going to have a place in his heart. trump for nigel farage because he led the way. he was the lightning rod that delivered brexit. that made trump look possible. and indeed, trump look possible. and indeed, trump becomes a reality just a few months later. >> i remember it, i remember it, i think i wrote at the time, you know, if we voted for brexit, they might vote for trump. >> exactly. so i think trump will always have this kind of hot spot or soft spot, rather for farage. but in terms of britain, where we deliver is by leading europe in nato, we pay our way better than more than most european countries. and also don't forget prince

william. don't forget prince william. >> hang on. thank you to the my panel >> hang on. thank you to the my panel. i've got to cut you off. cut you off. because up next is patrick christys. patrick. i know what you've got coming up on your show, but i want everybody else to know what you've got coming up in your show, because it's pretty special. >> bombshell polling matt. yes, that's absolutely right. so we have done some polling and we can reveal how out of touch keir starmer is on the grooming gangs issue. we can also reveal who, officially britain's most popular politician is. so we're going to be doing that. i'm also going to be doing that. i'm also going to be talking about gerry adams issue. what is labour's problem when it comes to basically appeasing the ira? obviously, gerry adams denies ever being a part of the ira. i'm also going to be speaking to a brave survivor of the grooming gangs issue, so stay tuned for that. >> well, i'm glad you're keeping it on the agenda. splendid. that's all coming up after the weather. i'll be back with you next wednesday right here on state of the nation. engage with me on social media. i'll keep you in touch with what's going on in washington. see you very soon. right here on state of the nafion soon. right here on state of the nation with me, matt goodwin.

bye bye. >> even though we'll see a cloudy start, it'll be a bright outlook for the rest of the day. boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello there. good evening. welcome to your gb news weather update from the met office. we could see some rather foggy starts as we head into tomorrow. then through the day we'll see a mix of cloud and some brighter spells. though it is going to be a cooler feeling day for most largely settled as we head into tonight as high pressure dominates. but a frontal system in the far north can bring some drizzle at times, mainly across the far northwest of scotland. mostly dry for many of us. plenty of cloud this evening across the south and southeast. this could be quite murky by the morning, likely to see some fog in places, even some fog developing under some clearer skies, and also plenty of cloud across scotland and northern ireland. feeling chillier too, also under these cloudier skies. but for many it's quite a mild night on offer, particularly

across the far northwest of scotland. so to start the day tomorrow, plenty of cloud around across scotland but feeling chillier in any clearer spells. also a chance we could still see some light outbreaks of drizzle across the very far north. quite across the very far north. quite a cloudy start across northern ireland and a few more clearer spells across northern ireland. northern parts of wales too, but chillier here, could even see some pockets of frost and also some pockets of frost and also some fog and plenty of cloud across southern and central areas of england. quite murky. starts in this fog, slow to clear in places, so do take care if you're travelling around through the morning, then through the morning, then through much of the day. it remains fairly similar. should start to see some sunshine across wales and northern england, but that cloud is set to stay across the south and southeast and turning quite blustery across the far north of scotland through the day to a cooler day on offer for most but for many across scotland. temperatures above average for the time of year heading into tomorrow, likely to see more outbreaks of rain and drizzle across parts of scotland. quite blustery here too, and elsewhere, plenty of cloud

around there is going to be staying largely dry. both best of the sunshine just to the northeast of any high ground. but for most it's going to be quite a cloudy day on offer and remaining fairly cloudy as we head into the weekend too. and that means temperatures are really going to struggle, so likely feeling chilly at times by. >> there will be a light breeze in the morning leading to a warm boxt heat pumps

>> it's 9 pm. on patrick christys tonight. is keir starmer about to make us pay compensation to gerry adams? >> well, i'm afraid i. i can't. >> i mean that's a yes isn't it.

could it have anything to do with the fact that the man who he appointed as attorney general used to represent gerry adams a little bit like how his mates with the lawyer representing mauritius over the chagos islands also tonight. a ceasefire has been reached between israel and hamas. but will it last? >> politicians who sat in government for many years calling for inquiries because they want to jump on a bandwagon of the far right ? of the far right? >> at 10 pm, i have a bombshell exclusive poll that shows how out of touch keir starmer is on grooming gangs, and i'll reveal who britain's most popular politician is. can you guess? in other news. >> elsewhere, facilitated by a woman to start with. and then it went on to basically being

trafficked, abused