killing. her about the southport killing. i'm going to be asking her why she thinks the government's new education reforms are an act of vandalism, and indeed, what she makes of trump's inauguration this week. also joining me today is the exchequer secretary to the treasury, james murray. he's going to be in the studio when we've got yet more statistics which suggest that the economy is flailing. what's his response? also, what does he make of claims that calling the chancellor rachel from accounts is sexist? i'll also be speaking to zia yousef. he's the chairman of reform uk. he's been hugely critical of the prime minister's handung critical of the prime minister's handling of the southport killings. we'll get his answers to some of the questions on that subject, which i know is one that's close to all of your hearts. i'll also be speaking to the conservative mp for east wiltshire, danny kruger. he's participated in a report which suggests that we're overmedicalising with antidepressants, conditions that are just a sign of everyday life. are we giving too many drugs out for people simply suffering from anxiety? and

ahead of holocaust memorial day tomorrow, i'm going to be speaking to wendy holden, the author of a new book about a really remarkable story of survival over adversity in auschwitz. so as ever, we've got 90 minutes of very punchy politics ahead. do not even think of going anywhere. matthew laza joins me now to go through the morning papers. there's a lot to go at. what a weekend news it's. >> been the inauguration. >> been the inauguration. >> prince harry settling with rupert murdoch, everything that's gone on with rudakubana. and let's start with that. i don't want to mention him too much. let's just call him the southport killer from here on in, because part of this was about his quest, i think, for notoriety. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> and the sunday times has tried to unpick exactly what went wrong, and it's got access to some of the paperwork around

this. yes. what have they discovered? >> so what? there's so many times i've seen a redacted version of the review into what the northwest prevent. that's the northwest prevent. that's the anti—terrorism program to which people are referred, and then it assesses how much of a risk they are. it's in a redacted version of that report, which included endless opportunities for action to be taken, which wasn't he was actually referred three times, and the serious failings included, he was sent a sort of released from the after his first meeting from the prevent program. three days later, he was waving a baseball bat at a fellow pupil. >> so it was a hockey. >> so it was a hockey. >> stick. a hockey stick. sorry. yeah, but the what yvette cooper has done, the home secretary, she's written for the sunday times, and there are three key things i think they want to change that they're saying they want to change in light of these very serious failings. one is to review the referral threshold for prevent so that actually effectively lowering it so that more people get referred. now that sounds like a good idea, but you need people within the prevent program who have got the

capacity to do that. so there'll be question marks about whether there are there is enough capacity within the prevent program. it's not like you can just suddenly whistle up people with expertise and the ability to assess these cases just like that. interestingly, neurodivergence is sort of a word which encompasses a lot of things like autism, adhd, adhd, etc. is no longer a reason to will no longer be a reason to stop investigation. >> why should. >> why should. >> it have been? well, i'm not sure why it should have been in the first place, but i mean. >> it doesn't matter whether somebody has got autism or adhd, if they've got violent tendencies of carrying knives and threatening children, phoning childline and saying they want to kill someone. >> yes, exactly. and so and in fact, one of the things that we might come on to talk about is how the southport killer had sort of obsessed with mass killings and genocide in different ways, because. >> the sun talk. >> the sun talk. >> about that now, because the sun's got this headline library of hate. and the thing that's happened here, matthew, is that prevent doesn't seem to have been able to determine which ideologies he was following, or whether one of them influenced him more than the other. and i know there's been a lot of talk about the al—qaeda manual that

he downloaded. and was this inspired by, you know, isis or islamic fundamentalism in any way, even though his parents were church going christians, he was accessing a lot of extremely dodgy material, just lists. >> yeah, absolutely. so he was looking at stuff about the ethnic cleansing in somalia, about the war in sri lanka, as well as stuff about the second world war. he had in total, 164,000 documents. and i think that's what happened is, is that because it wasn't like he was just reading about islamic terrorism or just reading about terrorism orjust reading about the second world war, that they thought, we can put you in a box and say you're in danger because of this. so they dismissed it because it was so broad brush. >> oh, no. »- >> oh, no. >> but do you think as well, this idea that, oh, he was only just interested, he had a fascination with world affairs. >> he might. >> he might. >> have also, but it might have also been a reflection of the autism diagnosis. oh, this is a kid that, like, really hyper focuses. hang on. you're missing the point. he kept on carrying knives , and his teachers and his knives, and his teachers and his parents said, this guy is a risk to society. >> i think that's absolutely i

think one of the reasons is they thought, oh, he's looking at everything. he's just, you know, it's autism. he's just soaking up every detail from a it's just an interest, a hyper fixation, as you say, it's not a danger. and the third, the third thing. so i think that's why they want to make this change, that neurodivergence is no longer a factor to stop the investigations. and then and i think this is probably the most important is what they want to do is tackle the void that they see that if you if you if you're if you're not, if you go into the prevent programme, you're, you're assessed and you're not regarded as a terrorism threat sort of at the highest level. so therefore you sort of fall out of the program at the moment. people go into a void and social services and others aren't really stepping in. there's no mechanism for the two to talk to each other in quite the right way, just fallen through the cracks. absolutely. that's what's happened. so those are the three changes that are being flagged by the government. >> okay. let's move on to rachel reeves. yes. she's on the front of the telegraph. she wants to have a reboot. >> yes, on the front of the papers, because she wants to get on the front foot. yes. having had a, you know, weeks of being

battered by bad news. and so she's giving a major speech on wednesday in which she is. and in the trailer this is she says that she will not tolerate blockers to her reforms. and these are particularly reforms on planning, but she won't have reform. >> she won't tolerate sadiq khan, who wants to block heathrow expansion. >> that is the big that is the big question. i think that this briefing that we've had today is basically a subtle or maybe not so subtle message to sadiq khan and perhaps my old boss ed miliband in in sitting around her own cabinet table. >> how do you think ed's doing, matt? >> well, i think the big question for ed is, is, as the world is a focus on his agenda decreases. and we've seen actually some stories today saying it's not just trump, but actually in japan as well. there's a kind of refocusing away from what some would say is the obsession with net zero, he would say, is the laudable goal of net of net zero. so, i mean, will that be a casualty of the first reshuffle? i think is one of the questions we're going to start. >> miliband threaten to resign under gordon brown should the heathrow expansion go ahead. and now he's saying, hell no, i'm not going anywhere. >> i'm staying here. >> i'm staying here. >> may i just suggest that this

is marxism but groucho. >> yeah, well. >> yeah, well. >> here are my principles. and if you don't like them, i have others. >> i'm quite enjoying the job, so i don't really i don't really want to go. so i think that this is going to be a sort of continuing theme. and in fact, ideological divides within the within the cabinet are not just on the matters to do with the environment and to do with planning and unleashing the planning and unlea