gwynne him about the andrew gwynne scandal, let's call it that, because it certainly is. i'm also going to be joined by alex burghart. he's the shadow chancellor, chancellor of the duchy of lancaster, basically kemi badenoch sort of de facto deputy. i'm going to be asking him about her plans for limiting legal migration and what he makes of reports of a megadeal between nigel farage and wait for it. boris johnson. reform archewell, former tory mp. now she's a reform greater lincolnshire mayoral candidate andrea jenkyns joins me. i also want to ask her about the mega pact, because she knows nigel farage and boris johnson very well. is there anything in that mail on sunday's story? i'm going to be speaking to britain's strictest headmistress, katharine , head of headmistress, katharine, head of michaela academy in wembley. she's going to join me to discuss this ongoing row with the education secretary, bridget phillipson. expect some fireworks with that. and as the bank of england downgrades its growth projections for the

british economy, i'm going to be speaking to the business leader, sir rocco forte, about the impact rachel reeves budget is having on small and medium sized businesses. as ever, we've got 90 minutes of very punchy politics ahead, so do not think of going anywhere. but first with me now to review the sunday front pages is former bbc broadcaster nicholas owen. nicholas, as i live and breathe. what a set of papers we have this morning, starting with the mail on sunday's astonishing expose of, let's be honest, the most insulting, offensive and incendiary whatsapp messages we've seen in quite some time. >> absolutely. andrew gwynne is the man and a health minister now sacked for what he has said very promptly by keir starmer. i think everybody would say that was the right thing to do, certainly. i'll tell you what i

think about this. this is this is this social media, is it a whatsapp group or a something or other group or whatever? this man and he launched himself at all sorts of targets, which he shouldn't have done, saying some pensioner i think should have, hoping some pensioner would die because they hadn't voted for them, because this pensioner had complained about bin collection, but also going on about people like diana abbot and being very racist. remark about her racist. >> remarks about jews. >> remarks about jews. >> and jews as. >> and jews as. >> well about david lammy. >> well about david lammy. >> everything, everything that you would think that a sensible politician of any party would keep away from this man has dropped right in. i mean, if you read right the way through, he does have a sort of history of some people talk about depression and things like that. but i think this is this is just extraordinary to me. but doesn't it show the dangers? i've said this on your show before, haven't i, about these these, these channels, these platforms, whatever you call them, they are just lethal. but you tend to think of young people falling into the mistake of saying all sorts of silly things and so on. >> this is a grown.

>> this is a grown. >> man, a grown man. >> man, a grown man. >> it's an elected representative. and also there's another labour mp on there. there's a load of labour councillors. it does beg the question, why did you all think this kind of rhetoric was okay? and for keir starmer this is so problematic isn't it. because he's the one who says that he has purged all anti—semitism from the party. others have been suspicious about whether you can actually do that, because some people in the hard left are still anti—semitic. and yet you get messages like this, like casually bandied around. it's like, oh, is that the thinking of quite a lot of people in labour? this is not good. >> yes, i know it's awful, isn't it? he does say something about apologising. you know, a misjudgement. >> it's misjudged. yeah, but i don't know about these apologies. i'm sorry if i have caused offence. why not say what i said was categorically, completely wrong and out of order? i'll ask matthew pennycook when he comes on later. the housing minister, does this guy actually have a role in parliament at all? why is he should he be able to remain an mp even as an independent? if this is the way

he talks about his constituents? >> absolutely. can't party leaders just say just stop doing it, stop doing it? >> i can't help but think, if this was a tory and the labour were attacking them, they'd be saying that this guy needs to be booted out of the houses of parliament altogether. let's move on to the sunday times. i've spoken with two of so bebe king and el—sisi parents have. spoken . elsie stancombe parents spoken. elsie stancombe parents have spoken for the very first time to the sunday times. and i mean, i did have a tear in my eye reading this in the car on the way here. nick. >> this is heartbreaking. this is absolutely heartbreaking. >> and they make an interesting point in this piece. i do urge people to just read their first hand testimony of, you know, how they got the girls into the dance group, how they heard the news, how they were treated when they then approached the scene taped off by the police? it is literally every parent's abject worst nightmare. but they've made an interesting point that i think merits some discussion.

the judge in the case, obviously now sentencing is filmed. the whole case isn't filmed like it is in america, but the sentencing is filmed. and the judge was pretty explicit about the injuries that were sustained by bebe and el—sisi. and they're saying, was it necessary to have gone into that detail? we don't want our little girls remembered for the crime. we want them to be remembered for what they were like in life. and i, i read that as a parent, and i had quite a lot of sympathy with it, actually. >> yes, i think you're right, because if there had been a trial, if this wretched individual whose name i don't even want to pass my lips his name, if he'd he'd have pleaded not guilty. they'd have had to sit through all so much terrible stuff. but i think what people didn't quite realise was the judge in the summing up had to go through sort of the reasons why this man was in the, you know, this young person was in the dock in the first place. so very sadly that was the detail you get. but it's a bit of a balance, isn't it? we seem to want to get cameras and so on coverage of these things in the courtroom. i'm not quite. i've

never been quite sure what purpose it serves, frankly, because you're still not allowed to film the trial, you're still not allowed to see the defendant and so on. it seems like it was and so on. it seems like it was a bit unnecessary. but this is this is heartbreaking stuff. if you're going to have a look at the sunday times or follow up this morning, i would recommend every parent in the country, you know, take it steady because you are going to feel it's just awful. >> just also just i like the fact that these lovely new images of these girls have appeared on the front pages so that we're not remembering them in the context. the parents are saying, please do not remember our daughters in the context of the crime. remember them for the lives that they led. and i thought it was an extremely touching, very well executed interview. i think they spoke to the parents, the journalist, let's just name him. who is it? its northern editor, david. >> david collins. >> david collins. >> he spoke to them for three hours and he's done a very, very good job with that interview. very difficult interview. moving on to, well, completely different political fair again in the mail on sunday. farage paves way for reform tory mega party with boris that would

trounce stumbling starmer. tell me more nick. >> well, the talk is that this is the way forward. let's see. reform a polling very well at the moment. i think they're ahead of both the other parties. >> aren't they now. but they're all kind of a third, a third, a third. so somebody needs to do the running here and get very further ahead. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> well a figure beginning with a three basically to win the next election. >> you spend more time in mr farage company than i do. what do you think. well is it is it possible? i mean, to. >> me he gets on with boris, but he feels very let down by 2019. and this idea that reform or then the brexit party stood aside and then boris didn't deliver on his post—brexit pledges. i think he's got a not very good relationship at all with kemi badenoch, which makes things wit