said, not really reaching

for and joining me tonight for a lively discussion. i've got my panel lively discussion. i've got my panel, gavin rice, head of political economy at onward, and zoe grunwald, journalist and broadcaster. but first, the latest news headlines with sophia wenzler. >> good evening. these are your headlines. it'sjust >> good evening. these are your headlines. it's just gone. 6:00 jd vance has taken aim at britain and the eu over what he claimed was backsliding, free speech and democracy. addressing the munich security conference, the munich security conference, the us vice president suggested there's been a retreat of fundamental values in europe. vance also praised munich's hospitality, despite the city reeling from yesterday's car attack that left 30 injured. the 24 year old afghan asylum seeker responsible has been arrested and is due in court. vance

warned that the biggest threat facing the west is not external but the threat from within. >> threat that i worry the most about vis a vis europe is not russia, it's not china, it's not any other external actor. and what i worry about is the threat from within. the retreat of europe from some of its most fundamental values, values shared with the united states of america. >> meanwhile, he also responded to volodymyr zelenskyy concerns over a lack of a ready plan to end the war in ukraine. it comes after donald trump spoke with vladimir putin and agreed to work very closely to end the conflict. ukraine's president says putin isn't preparing for peace, but to continue deceiving the world, and insists any peace deal must guarantee ukraine's independence. meanwhile, the foreign secretary, david lammy, has spoken with the us vice president, saying the uk us special relationship is as endunng special relationship is as enduring as ever and assuring

they had agreed on ukraine. >> i was very encouraged in our conversations about ukraine. all of us have this desire to bring this horrendous war to an end. we share the view that there has to be an enduring peace. we recognise that this can't be minsk 3.0. this has to be a serious negotiated peace. and there was an agreement that zelenskyy and the ukrainians have to be part of that negotiated deal. >> in other news, now an indian man has been found guilty of raping and murdering irish backpacker danielle mclaughlin in goa. venkat bhagat attacked the 28 year old in 2017. her body was discovered in a field the next day. her family say justice has finally been achieved after an eight year trial plagued by delays. a post—mortem found she died from brain damage and strangulation.

they're now watching to see what further legal steps will follow. and it may be valentine's day, but love is not in the air for bolt. uber and addison lee drivers who are striking today causing travel chaos across the uk. thousands of drivers are logging off during peak hours today in a campaign for better pay today in a campaign for better pay and working conditions. the strike action is taking place across from 4 pm. across the country from 4 pm. until 10 pm. tonight. those are the latest gb news headlines. now it's back miriam. now it's back to miriam. >> for the very latest gb news now it's back to miriam. >> for tiyourry latest gb news now it's back to miriam. >> for tiyour smartphone. \iews

now it's back to miriam. >> for tiyour smart afraid \iews now it's back to miriam. >> for tiyour smart afraid ofws security. if you are afraid of the voices, the opinions, and

the voices, the opinions, and the conscience that guide your very own people. europe faces many challenges. the crisis this continent faces right now, the crisis i believe we all face together is one of our own making. if you're running in fear of your own voters, there is nothing america can do for you. >> well, i think it's fair to say the audience didn't particularly enjoy that speech. let's see what our panel has to say. let's start with you, zoe. this was an excoriating

say. let's start with you, zoe. th broad an excoriating say. let's start with you, zoe. th broad decline.'iating say. let's start with you, zoe. th broad decline. iating say. let's start with you, zoe. th broad decline. i think what of broad decline. i think what he was trying to do was actually trying to appeal to a kind of common cultural or civilizational foundation that is actually, perhaps shared between europe and the united states and draw attention to some genuinely pretty egregious things. i mean, you know, he mentioned the example of the man in sweden who was convicted for burning a quran on a very nice thing to do, but probably shouldn't be a criminal offence. there's numerous similar examples from the uk, and i think he was actually trying to lay out a little bit of a foundation of some things that could be shared in common. >> yeah, and it wasn't just free

speech that he attacked. you know, you're completely right. you could take two different points of view on this, but it was actually what is europe for.7 what are our values. what are we trying to defend. that was his kind of key i mean, we've point doesn't he.7 i mean, we've kind of point doesn't he? i mean, we've kind of told ourselves that our values are diversity, inclusion. but actually that isn't what europe was built on. >> i think there's a there is something to be said for this idea of if europe wants to come together as this kind of coherent bloc where they have shared values and, you know, a vision going forward, then there do need to be conversations about what that looks like. and i think in the face of threats like russia, like china, like global warming, like war and energy struggles, food security, it makes sense that you would want some coherence amongst these countries about what their strategy is. and, you know, the eu has clearly encountered problems over the last couple of decades. so there is a lot of soul searching to be done. you spoke about the election in the us as well. clearly that shock the democrats. the public aren't happy with how politics has been going. so i do i just think

soul searching, but i just think the diagnosis of the problem from sort of

clearly got some sort of authoritarian instincts when it comes to freedom of speech, and the example that he gives, actually a lot of it originates from america. now, i don't think it actually originates from jd vance. i think he and, you know, and his political allies are

trying to stage something of a kind of a, a kind of a counteraction against this. but actually, a lot of this culture emerges from american universities, from american corporate offices, from hr departments and companies that have got their headquarters in, in the united states. and, you know, they can sometimes, particularly on the right in this country, be a tendency to just blame the state and just blame governments for these kind of creeping, draconian laws and principles and constraints on our freedom. actually, a lot of this is coming from the private sector as. >> well, and it's an unwanted american import, if you like. now, so of course, the reason for this conference was not to bash brits about free speech, but it was to look at european security. and trump has, unsurprisingly, but still to the shock of european leaders, basically come out and said we're not going to support european security anymore. you're on your own. do you think europe can stand up for itself, particularly against the threat of putin and perhaps china? >> well, i think it needs to, because i think making concessions to putin over ukraine is a very dangerous indeed.i ukraine is a very dangerous indeed. i think there are two things that are going to happen

here. either putin is going to feel empowered by the fact that the us is , you know, rang him the us is, you know, rang him first and says, you know, there are going to have to be some territorial concessions so he won't feel the need to strike a peace deal, or he will strike a peace deal, or he will strike a peace deal. he'll make he'll get territorial concessions. he'll come back a few years later wanting more. and i think europe is wise to this. i think the idea that in some way, you know, you are able to appease putin through this is very, very unwise. and i think what is quite clear is that donald trump now feels more aligned in some ways to putin than he does to the rest of europe and putin's interest. and i think that's worrying. and i think if europe were to take this seriously, they would need to band together and think about what their security alliance looks like now without the us being supporter. >> but i suppose trump would say to europe, you had your chance. we have supported ukraine, but not fully enough to help them win. obviously we haven't put boots on the ground for probably very good reasons, but you can see from trump's point of view where he thinks, well, you know what? what's a stake for him? >> not a lot. it's a complex

conflict. and as you say, you know, at this point, it really feels like if the war keeps going, ukraine could well lose. so obviously everybody wants this conflict to end. but my worry is particularly about this relationship between trump and putin. and, you know, even back in 2016, there were links between some people who worked with trump and putin, and there still are questions about those relationships. i do not think that trump has the interests of europe and ukraine at its heart. i think he has 1508 00:19:24,672 --> 0