michael jackson's dermatologist and longtime friend says he's not the father of the pop star's two oldest children, to the best of his knowledge. what? so is he saying this's a chance? a heart-wrenching story, a missing girl and a father set to be deployed to iraq in just weeks. where is lindsey baum? will her dad be forced to leave the country without knowing his little girl's fate? you're an important part of this show. give us a call, 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us at cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv. start with the word prime. this is your chance to be heard. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

welcome to "prime news." i'm vinnie politan in for mike galanos. an odd denial coming from one of the potential fathers of jackson's two oldest kids. he was his friend and dermatologist for more than 5 years. klein reported he's the father of paris and prince. in an interview with abc's "good morning america" klein denied it. well, sofrt of. >> all i can tell you is that to my knowledge, i'm not the father of these children. but i'm telling you, if push comes to shove, you know, i can't say anything about it. but to the best of my knowledge, i'm not the father of these children. >> to the best of your knowledge? that's an interesting phrase. >> i can't answer it in any other way. because you know what, i don't want to feed any of this insanity going around. >> is jackson's ex-wife, debbie rowe, worked for klein. were they in some kind of a

relationship? is the doctor implying there's a possibility he could be the father? joining me to talk about all this, alexis, a family law attorney. hln law enforcement analyst mike brooks. "inside edition." melanie bromley for "us weekly," whose cover story, the truth about his kids hits newsstands today. jim moret, i want to go to you first, though. i'm not the father, to the best of my knowledge? >> to the best of my knowledge i'm not either. >> does he know how it all works, jim? >> the funniest part of that is he doesn't -- >> do we need to book him on maury povich? >> he's going to say it to the best of my knowledge. i don't even know what to make of that. does that mean that he has donated sperm to debbie rowe, to michael jackson and had a relationship with debbie rowe? i don't know what we're supposed

>> he's feeding us. melanie brom le, "us weekly," what did you think of dr. klein's -- if you can consider it a denial, to the best of my knowledge, i'm not the father of those children? >> it's extraordinary. i mean, we have been very certain in our reporting, we've come forward and head he is the father and we stick by that. we've had sources who told us, good sources, and it's just interesting. i was like, really? and then, of course, when i worked the full interview and realized how many a nondenial it is, how odd it is, yes, it's just a very interesting development. >> melanie, your sources, how do they say that he became the father? was it through artificial insemination? >> it was artificial insemination, that's absolutely right. arnold and michael were exceptionally good friends. the as we know. also, the other thing we have in our issue this week is, the last

christmas that michael spent, and the last christmas the kids had with their dad was also with arnold. they had this christmas eve with their biological father and their father. they were exceptionally close. you're a dermatologist. does he come over for christmas? >> well, actually -- >> do the kids call him uncle arnold? >> but we happen to be friends with the dermatologist. >> you do? maybe it's not so farfetched. >> he's been over to our house. it's funny you would ask that. haven't even thought about that. >> really? >> yes. >> okay. jim, what do you really think is going on here? i mean, any idea? "us weekly" has their sources picture? >> look, you've got a family law expert on who's going to know far more about this than i. it's my understandings that it doesn't matter if he's the biological father.

michael jackson was married at the time these two kids were born. he's the father, de facto, by law in california. and michael jackson has every right to give them his estate. look, would it be helpful for arnold klein if he's deemed to be the father to then take control of the estate? sure. i don't think that can happen. but like i say, i would defer to your family law expert. >> absolutely. that's right where i'm going, jim. thanks for steering me there. alexa, if in fact this doctor is the father of these children, as "us weekly" is reporting, does he -- can he make any claim at this point? does he have any sort of rights? >> well, he's not going to make any claim here. if he is the father, he entered into some kind of arrangement that he's clearly willing to uphold. michael jackson appears on the birth certificate. and it's really not in his best interest to make a claim anyway because he wants this estate going to those kids. maybe he'll have some relationship with them on an ongoing basis.

and if he is their biological father, that would certainly be a nice thing to have happen. but from a legal perspective, it is totally irrelevant if he is the father. michael jackson will be deemed to be their daddy for all legal purposes. >> is it possible, perhaps if the kids turn 18, and they're making decisions on their own and they want to know who their father is, and they suspect it may be uncle arnold, could they compel him to take some sort of a test? >> i don't know if they could compel him to take a test, but they could compel him emotionally and take a test, and say, if you are our father, we want to know. from a health perspective, it's a good idea for us to know that anyway. absolutely. we've got much more to talk about. we want to know what you think about this whole situation. the dermatologist, uncle arnold, is he the father? give us a call 1-877-tell-hln.

you're an important part of the show. we want to know what you think. you can call us at 1-877-tell-hln. cnn.com/primenews. messaging. 45688. include your name and state if you have room. we'll be showing your text messages throughout the program. we are talking about the potential paternity of michael jackson's two oldest children. dr. arnold klein, the dermatologist reported by "us it, sort of, saying to the best of my knowledge, i'm not the father of these children.

linda is in oregon. linda, you're on the air. >> caller: yes, hi, thank you for taking my call. biology does not a father make. and i think these children only knew michael jackson as their father. and they loved him. and he loved them. and it doesn't matter who the biological father is. he was -- or mother, for that matter, he was their father. he was their mother. he loved them. and paris is amazing. i love michael. and i think it's important to consider the children. as much as possible. >> sure. linda, you know what's interesting, you talk about michael jackson being the mother and father. he was their only parent. the question is, what happens from this point forward, though. because michael jackson, as we know, tragically not there for the children at this time. do you think that uncle around should have any role in their life? >> caller: i think that they should be protected from, as much as possible, from third parties. i think that katherine and the

jackson family are obviously there for those children. they love them. they've been inintegral part of their life. i think it's very important that they stay that way, and that it's not a circus. that these children are obviously going to be in the camera. the camera's going to be in their face. there needs to be protection for these children as much as possible. you're right, he's not here. but again -- >> what you would like to see is what everyone at the staples center yesterday want to see, that katherine jackson and the jack sob family hold and take care of these children. thank you for that phone call. biology plays a huge role in california, doesn't it? >> well, it does if there's not a father list on the birth certificate. but when a mother and a father, when two people are married and the wife gives birth during the marriage, the person that she's married to is presumptively the father. even if he's not the biological father. and now because he's also

listed, list on the birth certificate, it's locked in. he's the father. so, yes, the biology should not -- >> even if the father passes away? >> even if. he is the father. so for legal purposes, he's considered the father for all purposes. now, that doesn't mean that dr. arnold klein is not going to have a relationship with these kids and perhaps he already had a relationship with these kids if he was such a great friend of the family. so that's a wonderful thing to continue. but from a legal perspective, michael jackson's the father. he determined who's going to take care of these kids now. he did that in his will. and katherine jackson is the named guardian. it looks like she's going to probably keep guardianship unless something happens to her. >> i want to take a listen to more of dr. arnold klein. he was asked on "good morning america" whether or not he is one of the doctors who's being investigated by the dea and lapd. take a listen. >> no, i'm not one of the five doctors, i'm not one of the

doctors. i've not been examined by anyone, okay? i've not been contact by the police it in los angeles. so i don't know what to tell you, but i'm not one of the doctors. i was his doctor. >> so those are untrue? >> i've given him medication, yes. but you can take all the medication i gave him in a year right now and nothing would happen to you. >> that's dr. arnold klein on "good morning america" this morning. mike brooks, the fact that he hasn't been interviewed yet, does that mean he's not one of the fife doctors? or is it possible he would be someone who would be investigated here? vinnie, they even searched search warrants so far. i've never seen lapd hold the cards so close to the vest in this case. they're not giving out hardly any information. >> they're not even talking to you, mike, about this. >> no. basically, i really can't

discuss it. i can't discuss the investigation. they've been ordered that, you know, there better not be a leak in this case. something's going to get out. but these search warrants that we're talking about, day before yesterday they had three more that were served. they are all sealed. which is also, you know, not unusual until the reports of the toxicology reports come back. because that all could play into the final autopsy report. >> absolutely. we're going to have much more on michael jackson. but we're going to switch gears a little pit bit. we're going to focus on the investigation. what killed michael? there are plenty of rumors we're hearing. his arms were covered with track marks. something experts say point to i.v. drug use. still taking your calls 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news." a serial killer gunned down in north carolina. cops say the guy killed five people in less than a week. but could the killings have been avoided? the man had been arrested more

than 30 times, and his rap sheet is the size of a small novel. so what was he doing out of jail? we're taking your calls on this one, 1-877-tell-hln. it's a mystery. michael jackson's sudden death at age 50. what killed him? sources are telling cnn the singer's arms were riddled with marks, and the veins had collapsed. both characteristics that experts say you find in people who use i.v. drugs. investigators found numerous bottles of prescription drugs in jackson's mansion. but we won't know the cause of death for at least another week. natisha lance, producer for nancy grace. mike brooks. and dr. lee, an emergency room physician. let's begin with you, natisha. what is the latest in the investigation and what we're learning here about michael jackson's arms and these marks and his convenience? >> right. just as you said, vinnie, two sources are now telling cnn that

michael jackson's arms were full of track marks. they're saying these track marks would be consistent with regular i.v. drug use. in which case it could be a possibility that dep ri van was involved here. they're also saying some of these tracks marks were newer ones, and the newer ones could have come from michael jackson, with the paramedics when he lapsed from his home and i.v.s from that. we do know there were prescription medications that were found at michael jackson's home. the associated press reported previously that law enforcement source told them that some of those bottles were diprivan at the home. couple this, vinnie, with another source who told cnn that michael jackson traveled with a mini krinic of sorts, with an i.v. pole and anesthesiologist, dr. neil ratner. dr. ratner said michael jackson suffers from insomnia. there's other things that you couple this with, too, vinnie. there's so many reports coming

out about michael jackson using diprivan, using these drugs. you also hear with the interview today from his dermatologist, dr. klein. he said that he never prescribed michael jackson any of those types of medications. but he did prescribe michael jackson some medications in the past. but none of it, vinnie, is looking very good in terms of what killed michael jackson. >> how far back are we talking here in time? that they suspect the use of these i.v. drugs? >> well, the source that talked >> wow. going back to the mid-'90s then. >> right. exactly. >> let's bring in the doctor. kr lee vinaker. how about the veins have collapsed. we've got the marks from mead dls. other tell tale signs they use, that an emergency room physician can see and you say, hey, this person has been using i.v.

drugs? >> yeah. i mean, certainly. when you have track marks, and needle marks and a person doesn't have a lot of good veins, sometimes they've used up their veins. but when you say veins are collapsed, also, if somebody's very dehydrated or they're in a cardiac arrest, remember, blood's not pumping. and you need blood sort of pumping through your veins and arteries to sort of hold the veins open. so sometimes it could be collapsed from them. it's hard to tell unless you're looking at the pathology or you're looking at a vein and a track mark that's clotted off. but when they mean collapsed from drug use, it means they're clotted off and they're not good anymore. when you talk about track marks, can you tell, can it be anything else other than track marks that would make these -- that you would see on the arms? is it obvious to a physician? >> average drug abusers that you sometimes find on the street,

the good veins, they'll start something called skin popping that they inject it right into the skin and soft tissue and they have sores. that's a typical look for a street intravenous drug user. certainly if someone's using the same vein, you can see that sometimes in cancer patients getting chemotherapy, too, where they're using the same vein over and over again. you can see the needle marks. that mark isn't good anymore, because even chemotherapy drugs can collapse it. if he was using diprivan, you can't use it in little babies, because it has some alcohol in it. and alcohol's very irritating to the veins. so that can cause the veins to sort of schrer os. >> many more questions for you, doctor. stay put. mike brooks still with us, and natisha lance. we'll be right back. dddddd

the most talked-about moment at michael jackson's memorial was his daughter, paris, giving a tribute to her father. it's really rare to see his children in the spotlight like this. typically whenever the kids did go out in public with their dad, they wore masks. like in this video. so what a contrast to actually see and hear 11-year-old paris honor and defend her dad. take a listen. >> i just want to say, ever since i was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. and i just want to say i love

him so much. >> i want to bring back alexis neely, and jim moret, chief correspondent for "inside edition." we're going to talk to our guests whether it was a good idea for paris to address the worldwide audience in a moment. but first, we have new video just in to hln from our colleagues at tmz. it shows michael jackson's sisters thanking people who viewed the memorial on the big screen at the nokia theater across from the staples center. when janet jackson got to the mirk phone, the crowd cheered very loudly. >> thank you for all of your support.

michael will live in all of our hearts. >> there you see the three sisters. those are the three sisters who were around paris when she was addressing the crowd at the staples center just moments before haubd across the street. i want to bring in our guests on that. i'll begin with melanie bromley from "us weekly." what did you think? did you think it was appropriate? was there anything uncomfortable as you watched that take place, watched this 11-year-old girl address the audience at the staples center, and really, the world? >> gosh, that's a difficult question, because i have so many mixed feelings about it. of course, her addressing the crowd was really to put a face on this tragedy and made you realize that everything we've seen on this, he was a father. brs but this was also a daughter who protect her identity. but was that the right thing to do? it was obviously michael did not want her in the spotlight. but maybe walking around with a

mafg on your face when you're a little girl isn't normal either. and i think that the one thing i noticed was that janet jackson at least said to her before he took to the microphone, do you want to do this? she said yes. she was asking to address the crowd. she wanted to do it. at the end of the day they kept her wishes. >> jim, what did you make of that at that moment? did you get the feeling that maybe she shouldn't be doing this? >> you know what, i talked to my wife about this. my wife wasn't there, but we have an 11-year-old son. we both came to the conclusion that it was very brave for this little girl to do this. and she can look back years from now, and know that she stood up at a time when she really wanted to make a statement about her father, and made it very clear to all those people in that room, and frankly, to the world, that she loved him very, very much. i thought it was -- it's still one of the most touching things i've seen in so long. it just chokes me up when i see it. >> i agree with you, jim. you know what, i was watching

her, in the audience. she would stand up before anyone else would stand up. she would sing along with the lyrics. from my perspective watching, on television, not there, but it seemed like more than the other two children, she was an active participant really in this whole memorial. and i really get the feeling, and i agree with melanie, that she wasn't pushed up on that stage. she wasn't forced to make a statement. i think it came from her, from that 11-year-old, that she really wanted to do that. and she did it so well. alexis neeely, after watching her speak in front of that crowd, made a lot of us think, you know what, will a judge want to hear from her if in fact there ever comes a time and there's a battle for custody for these children? do you think a judge would want to hear from this # 1-year-old girl? >> sure. i think a judge would shutly want to hear from all of the kids, if they are able to speak to the judge. because it is ultimately what is in the best interests of the child. yes, michael named his mother as

guardian. but just because you name a guardian does not mean that the judge has to obey what you say. it's a presumption if you name a guardian, that's who's going to take custody of your kids. but it really comes down to what is in the best interests of the children. if they can speak to that themselves, that's definitely something that the court is going to listen to. >> melanie, we've finally seen these children now. we see their faces. it seems they're more out in public. what do you think is going to happen in los angeles? do you think the paparazzi are going to be all over these children or will they step back and respect them a little bit and realize they're just children? >> i don't think the paparazzi will take a step back, no. i think that paris has definitely taken center stage. that there's a renewed fascination, with these children. and people want to see more pictures of them as they grow up. and develop. i think what's difficult in this situation is with prince harry and prince william in the uk,

when princess diana died, there were -- the press obeyed some rules that they would not photograph these children because they were, you know, royalty. i don't think that that's going to happen in this case. >> let's go to rita in illinois. rita, you're on the air. hello, rita? you're on the air. >> caller: yes, hi. you know, i just want to comment, one of the things i think you two are probably missing is many times in our culture, in an african-american culture, most of the time our children during services, funeral services, memorials, they actually get up, they say just hammer -- i don't think people should be hammering at this child -- i don't think anyone on this show has been hammering this child at all. we're applauding her.

>> caller: but a lot of people say it was inappropriate for her, or was it inappropriate for her to actually -- >> i think we asked the question. we all agree with you. i think we absolutely agree with you tonight. >> caller: but i think it's important for people to understand that our culture -- >> sure. >> caller: that is not -- >> not unusual. not unusual. rita, thanks so much for the call. we appreciate it. here's another story we've been following closely. former nfl quarterback steve mcnair shotened killed by his girlfriend in a murder/suicide. police are giving disturbing details about the night he was shot to death.

we have an important update to tell you about. national police now confirming former nfl star steve mcnair's death was a murder/suicide. and it was carried out by his girlfriend. the couple was found shot to death in a national condo last saturday. "prime news" correspondent richelle carey joins us with more on this tragedy. richelle? >> it is, vinnie. we bought you this live on hln not that long ago. a couple hours ago. preliminary results from the autopsy and the crime scene show that sahel kazemi shot 36-year-old steve mcnair and then shot herself in the head. listen. >> based upon the appearance of the crime scene, evidence collected, autopsy findings, laboratory results, and an incredible amount of work by our

investigative team, there's no doubt we believe now at this time that mcnair was seated on the sofa, and likely was asleep. and we believe that kazemi shot him in the right temple, then shot him twice in the chest and then shot him a final time in the left temple. kazemi then positioned herself next to mcnair on the sofa and shot herself once in the right temple and expired. >> we've got a lot more information as well, vinnie. more interesting details surfacing. kazemi recently told a friend "her personal life was all screwed up." apparently the 20-year-old had mounting debt which included two car payments, also her roommate was getting ready to move out which would have doubled her rent and she apparently believed mcnair was dating another woman in nashville. now, remember, he was married. all of that, vinnie, is what friends led her to say she wanted to end it all. take her own life.

incredibly sad, tragic story, vinnie. >> certainly is, richelle. now, some of you may be asking why did it take so long to tie the evidence to mcnair's girlfriend. a lot of you have called in and said it appeared so obviously. here to answer that, mike brooks. mike, really interesting the way this investigation goes. they not only look at the physical evidence, but they did a lot of interviews and that really revealed a lot. >> absolutely, vinnie. cnn. thought it was a double homicide, vinnie, is they said he was seated on the sofa, and she was at his feet. now, they came in, did an overall of this crime scene, took pictures. but when they rolled her over, there was a semiautomatic gun underneath her body. that's when they said, well, wait a minute, we need to take a closer look at this. there was one other thing. a friend of his who came over and discovered the bodies, it

was about a 40-minute delay. there were rumors that the crime scene had been tampered with and tried to be cleaned up. they put that to rest today and said, no, it was not tampered with whatsoever. sometimes it's not unusual to have a delay in a response talked about finding some gunshot residue on her hands, none on mcnair. with the interviews, she told someone, apparently two separate times that the things were all messed up. two separate people. that came from interviewing her close friends and associates, and from the evidence and everything they had, they decided that yes, this was a murder-suicide. and, you know, vinnie, you look at this scene. here he was apparently asleep. she shot him -- >> that's the thing, mike, i wanted to ask you about that. that's an interesting fact. how can investigators figure out if someone is asleep or not when they're shot four times? >> a lot of times, normally, if

someone would be awake, and someone had a gun and they were pointing it at you and going to shoot you, you would probably move. you would have maybe some rounds that would hit your arms because you're going to try to protect yourself. apparently none of this happened of the he was shot. they can tell, and i can, from a crime scene, from blood spatter, all kinds of different things, shot first in the right temple. then shot twice in the chest. then shot in the left temple. gun fell on the floor and she slid on top of the gun after she shot herself in the right temple. >> and we also learned a little bit more about a possible motive here. a couple of things. one, you have all this mounting debt that she had. >> right. >> she's going to have to pay double rent. and the fact that steve mcnair may have had another girlfriend. >> exactly. we talked about the cadillac ed ka -- escalade she was pulled over recently for the dui.

the cops said, you can go, even though she was 20 years old, not old enough to drink. apparently both names were on the title of this car, on the registration of this vehicle. but she was actually making the payments. then she had another car that she hadn't been able to sell and she was still making payments on that. there was a lot of things, apparently the gun, too, vinnie, very interesting with this. she had apparently been talking to somebody about a car. it was this guy, she mentioned a gun, he said, i have a gun. apparently he sold her a gun, it was a person-to-person transaction. in the state of tennessee she's not 21 years old, and could not buy a gun legally. >> thanks so much, mike. appreciate it. listen to this next story. a little girl vanishes, nobody's seen her for close to two weeks, now her dad is getting deployed to iraq. is the army going to cut this guy a break? or does he have no choice? we're taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.

this is heartbreaking. a girl is missing and her father is supposed to head off to iraq in the coming weeks. lindsey baum disappeared on june 26th. she was taking just a short walk from her friend's house to her home in mccleary, washington. but she never made it. yesterday was her 11th birthday. police haven't found any evidence to explain her disappearance. her father is getting desperate. time definitely not on his side. >> i would love nothing more than to see my daughter before i go. please, if you know anything, contact the hotlines, any 9 # 1 centers. but please, bring my daughter home before i laugh to leave. >> joining me on the phone is jacob jones, a reporter for the daily world. jacob, thanks so much for joining us. could you update us on the status of this investigation

into finding this 11-year-old girl? >> with yesterday being her birthday, they wanted to start off the week with a big push. they brought out dozens of new volunteers to search nearby off-road vehicle parks. they had the father go in front of news crews to make his public plea for any new information. now they've sort of suspended the ground search for the time being. and they've moved on with 12 to 15 detectives that are doing more specific checks and continuing with interviews. >> in the meantime, the father is set to be deployed to iraq. we got a statement from the tennessee national guard which says the unit is supporting harris guard. from what i understand, his superiors have been working with him the best they could. it took him a couple days to get leave and come out here.

he showed up on friday. since then they've just been trying to have him in i think they can maybe afford to have him stay out for a couple of weeks. but they're really not sure how long he's going to be able to hang around. >> unbelievable. now, we're looking at some photographs here. this just looks like a quiet neighborhood. describe it for us. is this the type of neighborhood where strangers could be driving through randomly, or is this a neighborhood where you've got some houses and some yards and that's all -- and it's just a regular suburban neighborhood, looks like? >> well, it's absolutely a quiet area. it's very small. rural sort of town. to the that. five minutes to take you out of the county. >> so if it was someone from out of the area to get out of there, it wouldn't take them a long time at all.

have they done any other sorts of searches? you know, sometimes young people are on computers and that can somehow be related or cell phones. anything like that? >> they've done a number of searches. physically checking the area from divers to dogs to aircraft. they've taken her computer in for forensic testing and gone through her web history and personal files. and they just haven't turned up anything. >> well, jacob jones, i hope we find this young girl. thanks so much for helping us out here and telling us the story. jacob jones from the "daily word" reporting for us tonight. unbelievable. now, cops gunned down a serial killer in north carolina, but what was this guy doing on the streets in the first place? turns out he'd been arrested more than 30 times. so could these five killings have been avoided? we're taking your calls. 1-877-tell-hbl.

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announcer: captioned telephone - enjoy the phone again! a confusing denial. michael jackson's dermatologist and long-time friend says he's not the father of the pop star's two oldest children to the best of his knowledge. what? so is he saying there's a chance? a heart-wrenching story. a missing girl and a father set to be deployed to iraq in just weeks. where is lindsey balm? will her dad be forced to leave the country without knowing his little girl's fate? you're an important part of the show. give us a call. 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us at cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv. start your message with the word "prime." this is your chance to be heard. >> controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news."

welcome to prinz. i'm vinnie politan in for mike galanos. an odd denial coming from one of the most talked about potential fathers of michael jackson's two oldest kids. dr. arnold klein was jackson's dermatologist and friend for more than 25 years. in the days after jackson's death "us weekly" reported klein, not jackson is the father of paris and prince. but in an interview with abc's "good morning america" klein denied it. well, sort of. >> all i can tell you is to the best of my knowledge i'm not the father of these children. i am telling you, if push comes to shove, you know, i can't say anything about it, but to the best of my knowledge i'm not the father of these children. >> to the best of your knowledge? that's some intriguing phrasing. the best of your knowledge. >> i can't answer it in any other way. because you know what? i don't want to feed any of the insanity that's going around. >> jackson's ex-wife debbie rowe worked for klein. were they in some kind of a

relationship? is the doctor implying there's a possibility he could be the father? joining me now to talk about this, alexis neilly, a family law attorney. melanie bromley, west coast editor for "us weekly." and jim moret, chief correspondent for "inside edition." all right, melanie bromley, i guess from your accent you weren't raised in the united states, were you? >> no. not really. >> but do you have biology over there, don't you? and you know where babies come from? >> we do, yes. >> so how could he to the best think this is not his child? i mean, do you buy anything this guy's saying? arnold klein is the father of michael jackson's two eldest children. we've had lots of sources come forward and tell us that. and it fits as well. arnold and michael were very, very, very close friends. debbie worked for arnold for many years. these are three people that were

always together. and you know. >> jim moret, i wanted to ask you. we're getting to see the children now. we're getting to see what they looked like. do you think they look anything like dr. klein? >> boy, that's a loaded question. to the best of my knowledge, no. all right, look, do they look like michael jackson's kids? i think that was kind of the elephant in the room, people thought where did these kids come from, did he really sleep with debbie rowe? how did they have these kids? the bottom line is he's the father. michael jackson is the father. he's the name on the birth certificate. he was married to their mother when they were born. he's the father. i mean, in a way this is much ado about nothing. it's really interesting. it's fascinating. it kind of goes with the whole michael jackson story being odd and strange. but i don't even understand the statement he said when push comes to shove. so what happens when push comes to shove? then is he the father? i don't understand where he's going with this. >> alexis neilly-k push come to

shove in a courtroom? do you see any scenario where he would be compelled to take some sort of dna test to find out if he is in fact the biological father of these children? >> no, i don't see a scenario in which he's going to be compelled at all. maybe later when the kids are older they'll ask him to and maybe he'll admit it to them, it will be something that's always private. but i don't see any situation in which he'll be compelled to give up his dna and be linked as their actual father. so i don't know what the push comes to shove will actually be. >> by the way, dr. arnold klein will be on "larry king live" tonight. don't miss that interview. let's go to a phone call. we've got valerie in pennsylvania. good evening, valerie. you're on the air. >> caller: hi. they're kind of talking about what i was saying. michael jackson to have >> what's the back story there, melanie? do we know? first of all, how it came to be that he was the biological

father according to your sources. and what was the exact relationship between dr. klein and debbie rowe? >> well, it was -- debbie was artificially inseminated. we know that. we also of course know that the time. even in the weeks up to his death he was still visiting him twice a week at his doctor's offices. as far as debbie and arnold having any sort of romantic liaison, that's not something that we were aware of. >> all right. let's go to anita, who's in kansas tonight. good evening, nita. >> caller: yes. i think michael jackson is the father, sir, because he has been with them all of his life, basically. and his name is on the birth certificate. >> okay, nita. and let's go to alexis neely on that issue. so in the eyes of the law michael jackson is the father and there's no doubt about that. no one can undo that.

>> that's exactly right. in the eyes of the law he's the father. he's on the birth certificate. he was married to debbie rowe at the time that she gave birth. the presumption is he's the father, that's going to stand. and that's probably the best thing. they're going to inherit from him. and they obviously considered him to be their daddy. >> but jim moret, the whole reason there's a lot of controversy here is because we know that these children are set to get at some point 80% of the estate of michael jackson. down the road. so these children come with a lot of potential income and money, and whenever that's in we've seen anything happening if in fact these children were the result of artificial insemination with debbie rowe michael jackson was married to debbie rowe at the

time. the person who gives up -- who donates that sperm gives up all parenta rights. so i just don't see a scenario where this is going to materialize into anything other than a fascinating story or perhaps the kids may find out at some time that michael jackson wasn't their natural father. but you know, the caller's right. michael jackson was their dad. he's the dad that they've known. he's raised them. he loved them. he's their dad. he's gone. let him rest in peace and let them move forward. >> jim moret, on this show the callers are always right. we're going to take a short break. when we come back, we're going to talk about what michael jackson was doing three days before his death at dr. klein's office.

you're an important part of the show. we want to know what you think. you can call us. 1-877-tell-hln. we also have text messaging. "prime" so we can find it. include your name and state if you have room. we'll be showing those text messages throughout the program. now, dr. arnold klein speaking to abc's "good morning america." he talked with a b. a bunch of things. first of all, he talked about the fact that to the best of his knowledge he's not the father of michael jackson's two oldest children. not the biological father at least. also talked about the fact that he was not one of the five doctors under investigation. he hasn't spoken to any investigators about prescriptions or drugs that michael jackson may or may not have been taking. also talked about, what was going on three days before the death of michael jackson, when

michael jackson apparently made a trip to dr. klein's office. take a listen. >> no trouble sleeping in my office. okay? he was not in terrible pain when i saw him. he danced in the office. he danced for my patients. he was very, very happy and dancing. >> again, that's from "good morning america." muscular and dancing. melanie, how about that? three days beforehand, no indication of anything being wrong. at least according to dr. klein. >> well, i mean, and other people have said the same thing. people who were at his rehearsals have said the same thing. this is something that came out of the blue to a lot of people. other sources have said he wasn't having trouble sleeping, that he'd never even discussed it. in our issue this week we talk about his final christmas, and i spoke to someone who was with him and asked did he talk about not being able to sleep in the past? and he said no, he didn't.

he obviously had some problems. and we're still waiting for the toxicology to find out exactly what was in his system. >> jim moret, it's really an interesting relationship between dermatologist and patient here. it goes beyond doctor-patient. i mean, this is a guy who apparently was known as uncle doctors. i don't know that there's anything sinister in this relationship. i think it's interesting to say he was muscular. i think he was around 112 pounds when he died, and he was certainly -- he could have been fit, but i don't know anyone who would describe him as muscular. he was a tiny, tiny little guy. it is -- it seems inconsistent. and yet we've heard several inconsistent reports. we saw him dancing, and he looked okay. but clearly, something went horribly wrong just a couple days later. yeah, muscular, that's an interesting description of michael jackson. i don't think i've ever heard

that. despite the fact that he was working out with lou ferrigno getting ready for this concert. let's go to another phone call. we've got thelma in missouri. good evening, thelma. >> caller: hi, vinnie. how are you? >> good. good. >> caller: okay. my comment question was this dr. klein says that he does not want to add to the insanity of all this m.j. stuff. then what is he doing? >> well, he'll be feeding it tonight on "larry king live" at 9:00, by the way, thelma. you know, it's interesting because everyone's talking about him and he's going to give, you know, his perspective of it. and "us weekly," and we've got melanie bromley with us, you guys are reporting that he is the biological father of those children, and he's going out and denying it. did he talk to "us weekly"? would he give an interview to you guys? >> no, he wouldn't. before we went to print we asked him for a comment and he declined to comment to us. >> he said nothing? absolutely nothing to you guys.

well, we'll hear a lot more tonight and we'll find out more. alexis neely, as we look at this potential paternity custody battle, at some point can a child if they want to know who their biological parent is, can they ask a court to grant them, say listen, i've got these articles, everyone's saying this guy's their father, we want to know? can they do that? >> probably not. they're probably not going to be able to go to court and ask the court to force him to do a dna test. but they could certainly go to him and say hey, uncle arnie, are you really our dad and have a real heart to heart with him one on one, which again, they may want to do for health considerations if he is their father. that could help them down the road if there's any health problems that were passed down. but i don't think they're going to be able to go into court and force him to submit to -- >> can't compel him. thanks so much to our panel. we're going to have more on michael jackson. but we're going to switch gears a little bit. we're going to talk about the investigation.

it's a mystery. michael jackson's sudden death at age 50. what killed him? sources are telling cnn the singer's arms were riddled with marks and the veins had collapsed. both characteristics that experts say you'd find in people who use iv drugs. investigators found numerous bottles of prescription drugs in jackson's mansion. but we won't know the cause of death for at least another week. joining me now with more, natisha lance, producer for nancy grace, hln law enforcement analyst mike brooks, and dr. leigh vanocur, an emergency room physician. what is the latest in the investigation and what we're learning here about michael jackson's arms and these marks and his veins? >> right. well, just as you said, vinnie, two sources are now telling cnn that michael jackson's arms were full of track marks and they

were consistent with regular iv drug use in which case it could be a possibility that diprivan was involved here. they're also saying some of these track marks were newer ones, there were some that were older. the newer ones could have come from michael jackson getting in with the paramedics when he collapsed from his home and be from an iv from that. now, we do know there were prescription medications that were found at michael jackson's home. the associated press reported previously that a law enforcement source told them that some of those bottles were diprivan at the home. you couple this, vinnie-w another source who told cnn that michael jackson traveled with a mini clinic of sorts with an iv pole and anesthesiologist dr. neil ratner. dr. ratner has not confirmed that he gave michael jackson diprivan of any kind, but he did say michael jackson suffered from inso ma inso many knee ins. so many reports coming out about michael jackson using diprivan,

using these drugs. you also hear about the interview with his dermatologist dr. klein. he said he never prescribed michael jackson any of those types of medications but he did prescribe michael jackson some medications in the past but none of it, vinnie, is looking very good in terms of what may have killed michael jackson. >> natisha, how far back are we talking here in time? that they suspect the use of these iv drugs. >> well, the source that talked to us about him traveling with the iv pole, this was in the '90s when he was on his history tour. >> wow. going back to the mid '90s there. >> right. exactly. >> let's bring in the doctor. dr. leigh vanocur. how about the veins have collapsed, we've got these marks from needles? are there telltale signs that you as an emergency room physician can see and someone comes in the emergency room and you say hey, this person has been using iv drugs? >> yeah. i mean, certainly when you have

track marks and needle marks and a person doesn't have a lot of good veins sometimes they've used up their veins. but when you say veins are collapsed, also if somebody's very dehydrated or they're in a cardiac arrest, remember, blood's not pumping and you need sort of blood pumping through your veins and arteries to hold the veins open. you know, it's hard to tell unless you're looking at the pathology or you're looking at a vein and a track mark that's clotted off. but when they mean collapsed from drug use, it means that they're clotted off and they're not good anymore. >> and when you're talking about track marks, i mean, can it be anything else other than track marks that would make these -- that you would see on the arms? is it obvious to a physician? >> average drug abusers that you sometimes find on the street, when they can't inject anymore into their veins because their veins have all clotted off and they've used up the good veins, they'll start something called

skin popping where they'll just inject it right into the skin and soft tissue and they'll have little sores. that's a typical look for like a street intravenous drug user. but certainly if someone's using the same vein you can see that sometimes in cancer patients, getting chemotherapy too. you know, where they're using the same vein over and over again. and then you can see the needle marks. and then that vein isn't good anymore because even chemotherapy drugs can collapse it. and if he was using diprivan, you can't use it in little babies because it has some alcohol in it. and alcohol's very irritating to the veins. so that can cause the veins to sort of sclerose and -- >> that can add to it as well. all right. we've got much, much more to talk about into the investigation of michael jackson's death. don't go anywhere. give us a call. 1-877-tell-hln.

michael jackson's daughter paris giving a tribute to her father. it's really rare to see his children in the spotlight like this. typically, whenever the kids did go out in public with their dad they wore masks, like in this video. so what a contrast to actually see and hear 11-year-old paris honor and defend her dad. take a listen. >> i just want to say -- >> speak up, sweetheart. speak up. a little closer. >> ever since i was born, daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. and i just want to say i love

him so much. >> i want to bring back alexis neely, a family law attorney, and melanie bromley, west coast editor for "us weekly." and jim moret, chief correspondent for "inside edition." we're going to talk to our guests about whether it was a good idea for paris to address the worldwide audience in a moment. but first we have some new video just in to hln from our colleagues at tmz. it shows michael jackson's sisters thanking people who viewed the memorial on a big screen at the nokia theater just across from the staples center. when janet jackson got to the microphone, the crowd cheered very loudly. >> i just want to say -- [ cheers and applause ] we want to thank you for all your support.

>> so there you see the three sisters. those are the three sisters who were around paris when she was addressing the crowd at the staples center just moments beforehand across the street. i want to bring in our guests on that. i'll begin with melanie bromley from "us weekly." what did you think? did you think it was appropriate? was there anything uncomfortable as you watched that take place, watched this 11-year-old girl address the audience at the staples center and really the world? >> that's a difficult question because i have so many mixed feelings about it. her address the crowd put a face on this tragedy and really made you realize that after all is said and done about this he was a father first. there was a lot of time and effort to protect her identity. but was that the right thing to do? it was obvious michael did not want her in the spotlight.

but maybe walking around with a mask on your face when you're a little girl isn't normal either. and the one thing i noticed was that janet definitely said to her before she took to the microphone do you want to do this? and she said yes. she was asking to address the crowd. she wanted to do it. so at the end of the day they obeyed her wishes. >> jim, what did you make of that? being inside the staples center at that moment. did you get the feeling that maybe she shouldn't be doing this? >> you know, i talked to my wife about this. my wife wasn't there. but we have an 11-year-old son. and we both came to the conclusion that it was very brave for this little girl to do this and she can look back years from now and know that she stood up at a time when she really wanted to make a statement about her father and made it very clear to all those people in that room and frankly to the world that she loved him very, very much. i thought it was -- it's still one of the most touching things i've seen in so long, and it just chokes me up when i see it. >> i agree with you, jim. and you know what, i was

watching her in the audience. you know, she would stand up before anyone else would stand up. she would sing along with the lyrics. from my perspective watching it on television, not there, but it seemed like more than the other two children she was an active participant really in this whole memorial. and i really get the feeling, and i agree with melanie, that she wasn't pushed up on that stage, she wasn't forced to make a statement. i think it came from her, from that 11-year-old, that she really wanted to do that. and she did it so well. alexis neely, family law attorney, you know, after watching her speak in front of that crowd that made a lot of us think you know what, will a judge want to hear from her if in fact there ever comes a time and there's a battle for custody for these children, do you think a judge would want to hear from this 11-year-old girl? >> sure. i think a judge would absolutely want to hear from all of the kids if they are able to speak to the judge because it is ultimately what is in the best interests of the child.

yes, michael named his mother as guardian. but just because you name a guardian does not mean that the judge has to obey what you say. it's a presumption that if you name a guardian that's who's going to take custody of your kids, but it really comes down to what is in the best interests of the children and if they can speak to that themselves that's definitely something that the court is going to listen to. >> now, melanie, we finally have seen these children now. we've seen their faces. it seems they're more out in public. what do you think's going to happen in los angeles now? do you think the paparazzi are going to be all over these children? or will they take a step back and respect them a little bit and realize that they're just children? >> i don't think the paparazzi will take a step back, no. i think that paris has definitely taken center stage and people -- there's a renewed fascination, whether that's right or wrong, with these children and people want to see more pictures of them as they grow up and develop. i think what's dults ifficult is

situation is with prince harry and prince william in the uk when princess diana died the press obeyed some rules that they would not photograph these children because they were, you know, royalty. and i don't think that that's going to happen in this case. >> let's go to rita in illinois. rita, you're on the air. hello, rita. rita, yes, you're on the air. >> caller: hi. i just wanted to make a comment. one of the things i think that you are probably missing is that many times in our culture, in african-american culture, most of the time our children during services, funeral services, something about their just be hammering at this child -- >> i don't think anyone on our show has been hammering this child at all. >> caller: well, no -- >> i think we're applauding her.

>> caller: people are saying that it was inappropriate for her or was it inappropriate for her to -- >> i think we asked the question, rita, tonight. and i think we all agree with you. i think we absolutely agree with you tonight. >> caller: yeah. but i think it's important for people to understand that -- >> absolutely. >> caller: -- in our culture -- >> sure. >> caller: -- that is not unusual -- >> not unusual. rita, thanks so much for the call. we appreciate it. here's another story we've been following closely. former nfl quarterback steve mcnair shot and killed by his girlfriend in a murder-suicide. police are now giving some disturbing details about the night he was shot to death.

we've got some breaking news out of nashville, tennessee. a friend called 911 after we're going to get it any minute now. in the meantime, mike brooks is with us. and we've got a lot more information today, mike, about this investigation and some of the things they found out, and they have officially determined that this was a suicide-murder, or actually a murder-suicide. >> right. it was a murder-suicide. steve mcnair was killed by his 20-year-old girlfriend, miss kazemi. and apparently, here's how it went down, vinnie. initially, my sources were telling me it was definitely a double homicide.

but here's the reason why. apparently, he was sitting on the couch. they believe that he was asleep. she shot him in the right temple, then shot him twice in the chest, then shot him in the left temple. she positioned herself over his body so she would fall on him. she shot herself in the right temple, killing herself. and then the gun fell to the floor, but then she slid off and was on top of the gun. so when detectives came in, they looked at the scene, they said this looks like a double homicide. but then as the scene -- the investigation continued and they beforehand. legally in the state of tennessee or anywhere else in the country because you have to be 21. but this was a person-to-person purchase. so vinnie, she had to have been thinking about this. either she was going to use it on herself -- because her friend said that over the last five to seven days she'd been getting more and more depressed.

as law enforcement, the chief said today, spinning out of control. and you know, there was a lot of things that were contributing to this. apparently, her roommate was going to move out. she was having financial difficulties. they were going to double her rent. she had two car payments. we heard about the cadillac escalade that everybody was saying, oh, mcnair bought for her. just because they figured that because both names were on the registration. but no. she was actually make the car payments on the escalade, which isn't cheap, and on another car. and there was something else that she thought was going on. she thought that mcnair was seeing another woman. now, apparently, she had seen this woman leaving the condo and had followed her. she didn't really know who she was. and it wasn't really clear if in fact there was another girlfriend. but that's what she was thinking. >> and mike, that has to be a key piece of evidence when we talk about the motive here, because he was shot four times. to me that says crime of passion, that she's upset with him. if it's just her life spinning out of control, then you understand the suicide.

but to take steve mcnair out as well tells me probably she thought something else was going on here besides the fact that he was married to another woman but seeing perhaps a third woman and that's why she struck against him. >> exactly. and you know, we're not able to say. we don't know for sure if there was a third woman. but she thought that there was. >> some of the other interesting facts around this case, and we're going to get to these 911 calls in just amoment, but the 911 calls were not made immediately, were they? >> no. and that's one of the reasons, vinnie, i think that they were waiting to come out with whether or not it was a murder-suicide because if you recall, early on they were saying we just heard hey, there was rumors that the scene may have been tampered with and someone may have tried to clean the scene up. but today the chief of police in nashville, he put all that aside and said, look, we've looked into that, there's nothing -- you know, there's nothing going on here, there was no scene tampering, no scene cleanup, and you know, he said and sometimes a delay happens when there are

more people involved in it. >> a delay of about 40 minutes. i still don't get that one myself. >> that's a little -- think about how long 40 minutes is. and to see the scene, and i guess it was obvious to whoever uncovered the scene that both parties were dead because if you think there's any chance that they're alive you're going to call 911 immediately, i would think. >> exactly. and apparently he had some this condo with someone else who had a key but then there was another friend of his who was involved. they call him big daddy gaddy. very well known in nashville. former bodyguard of steve mcnair when he was playing. so it's unclear if it was he or someone else came in and found it and then called the other person, who came over and that's why there was a delay. and that's what led to the rumors that there could have been some scene tampering. but again, the chief of police in nashville today put all that aside and said no, there was not. >> we're going to take a break right here. when we come back, we're going to listen to that 911 call from the scene of steve mcnair's

murder.

steve mcnair has sahel kazemi is in fact responsible mcnair and for her suicide, obviously. now, what we're getting in to hln right now is the 911 call that was from that room. but it wasn't done immediately. not immediate. it was about 40 minutes after the bodies were discovered, this is the call that was made. >> i received a phone call. >> uh-huh. >> then -- there was an injured party inside this apartment.

and -- >> was it male or female? >> two. there's two people. >> two people? >> yeah. >> and they both appear to be deceased? >> i think so, sir. >> you got a call from who? >> his name is wayne. him and -- share this apartment. and he came back. you know what i'm saying? he walked in and got a beer but he really didn't pay any attention to them. but he said i think they're hurt in there. so he called me because he know i'm my man's best man. so i went to check on him and he's -- it is not looking good in here. >> okay. and you said the guy's name is what that you got the call from? >> wayne. >> wayne? do you know his last name? >> mm-mm. >> okay. and he's the roommate? >> yeah. >> well, from that call you can understand why it took

investigators, mike brooks, a while to figure out exactly what's going on here. this is a strange 911 call to a murder scene. >> very strange. apparently, that was gaddy. he said i'm his best man. apparently that's the guy they call big daddy gaddy who's his former bodyguard and one of his best friends. but this call from wayne. if wayne got there and he saw two people there and then he called him up but he didn't think too much of it, i don't get that. if you have somebody shot, you know, two people, one on the sofa, the -- her on the floor. you know, you're going to know that something's wrong with the scene. and i think that's what led to the speculation, vinnie, that there was some cleaning up at the scene or the scene had been tampered with. but we know now that apparently there was not. but still a 40-minute delay, that bothers me a little bit. >> it's very bizarre. and i guess if you're an investigator you start with the 91 call. this is your first piece of evidence. this is how you're first introduced to the case. and you've got someone saying someone else called me and now i'm calling you.

and he didn't think much of it? i mean, four gunshot wounds to steve mcnair, that's not going to be a pretty scene, mike. not. >> no, it's not. five shell cases were on the scene. you know, it's very strange. still, very, very tragic scene. there had to be a lot of blood, i can tell you that. >> the only thing i can think is when you walk into a scene like that, it doesn't seem real to you. what is going on here? how common is it for people coming upon a scene like that to not call 911? to call a third party? >> not very common at all. that's what led to the speculation. it was called in around 1:35 saturday. law enforcement believe it happened in the early morning hours that saturday or late friday night because apparently

the bodies had been there for awhile. they didn't say exact time frame. my source said they thought early morning hours. >> the other thing, mike, five gunshots and no one called in response to that. is that unusual as well? >> yeah. they said today, apparently there were no calls from any witnesses. i find it very unusual. again, it depends on the time of day. normally, early morning hours. >> it's fourth of july, so maybe people are hearing more noise. >> if you hear a succession of gunfire, there were five, rapidly in succession. >> it would be very, very distinct. thanks very much. it's confirmed, a murder-suicide case.