>p a scathing report a michael jackson's ex. wor word p word ofword if wor word p word ofword ip if debbie roif debbie r of the pher lawyher la sp she doesnshe doesn't wa monep money, money, so what? we'we'll gep we'll get we' for you. > a babysitter acc jumping jumping in th jumping 14-year-old boy. she is twice his age and she asked for mom's blessing on this sick relationship so they can be a couple. give me a break. test us at hln tv to start your message with the word prime. it is your chance to be heard. controversy, opinions, your

point of view. this is prime news. welcome once again, this is prime news. a dramatic twist in the fight for michael jackson's kids. the new york post is reporting debbie rowe, jackson's ex-wife, agreed to drop any custody challenge for $the million, $4 million. her attorney denies it and says it is completely false and roe doesn't want jackson's money. she is asking for "the post" to file a retraction. she has already received millions through previous custody battles. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. tell us about it. we have kim baker with us, executive news editor for e! randy has been all over this, good to be with you, give us the latest on the custody.

what can you tell us about negotiations? are they ongoing or not? >> there's so much drama to tell you about. they seem to be ongoing. the post reporting is that they have reached a deal in exchange for these children that she says has with michael jackson. two of the three, she agreed to $4 million. well, the newspaper said she would forfeit her parental rights and this according to a family source. we called debbie rowe's attorney to ask if the story was true and were told simply "completely false." that's all we got from her attorney. that was printed this morning, but hours later her attorney, eric george, demanded a restrax. he sent a letter to "the post" that we got and he says this constitutes an immediate restrax and goes on to say there's no agreement that's been reached. rowe will not give up her parental rights because we have been told by a few people she is negotiated and there's a deal being brokered behind the scenes

to give up custody and to give up her visitation for the children. we, actually, reported and were told just yesterday that she is expected to be paid many millions for giving up custody, but we are also being told that the $4 million figure is quite low by our source. >> okay. clarify for us here, randi, what do the jacksons want in they want debbie rowe completely out of their life? >> it appears that way. catherine jackson doesn't want to go through a public custody battle, that's why the court date for the custody battle has been canceled twice. they want to keep the children together. one of the children, the youngest, is not debbie rowe's. if she did take her children, they would be separating these kids. catherine jackson is raising her other grandkids, and i think from what our sours are telling us, they want her to go away. they want her to be removed from

the picture. >> we'll bring in our attorney real quick. randi, if you have to go, we understand. we'll bring in jennifer smith, our attorney, a lot of people wonder how many times can debbie rowe cash in on by biological mom? >> it has hit its limit, i would think. right now if she would accept any money to give away her parental rights, i think the public wouldvillize her even more so than what's happening right now. the court system, it really doesn't give a paid versus -- paid for custody deal. if, in fact, she is going to be receiving money from the jackson family to go away, that would be something that would be kept very confidential and out of any court document. all you would see in a court document, most likely, is that she is, in fact, giving away her parental rights. now, the money would probably not be disclosed if money is to be exchanged. >> randi, are you still with us? >> i am. >> in looking at that letter

from eric george, the attorney for debbie rowe, it doesn't say there are not negotiations, it just says there hasn't been an agreement, is that correct? >> absolutely. it just says -- that's true, if you look at the language, if you read between the lines here, it says there has been no agreement reached. not that there isn't any agreement in the works, but we have from many sources there's an agreement in the works. in fact, one source told us that is in touch with the family told us that this agreement was supposed to be signed on sunday and it hasn't been yet. i'm not sure what the delay is, but clearly they want to get something hammered out. >> randi, is this catherine jackson and debbie rowe or the entire jackson family? how is this playing out? >> well n a way, i think joe jackson, whether he is involved in the negotiation or not really plays a role. debbie rowe says she doesn't want joe jackson anywhere near her children. she said that, in fact, she was willing to even go for a restraining order against him. she doesn't want him involved in

raising the kids at all based on the fact of what michael jackson said of his father accusing him of abuse that joe jackson denied. that plays a role in the fact that he's been so outspoken and really hasn't stopped talking and now is talking about taking the kids on the road and that so-and-so has to ten shl to be the answer, he wants to take the role of center stage with helping them and helping raise them. i think that's also a part of this. >> we'll take your calls on this. 1-877-tell-hln. how are you seeing the custody battle play out? do you think debbie rowe should get out of the way and not get a dime?

again, i want to let you know how much of an important role you play in the show. i want to hear from you. call in to 1-8 up up-1-877-tell-hln. text your comment to hlntv. the number is 45688. start your message with the word "prime" and it comes right to us. we want to share your thoughts throughout the show. we continue with michael jackson and the possible custody negotiations going on between the jackson family, really katherine jackson, michael jackson's mom, and debbie rowe. the new york post is reporting she has agreed to a $4-million deal to get out of the kids lives. no custody, no visitation, but her lawyer denies that and sent a letter to "the post."

they want a retraction. eric george is the attorney for debbie rowe. here's part of what eric george is writing to "the post." there has been no agreement reached between missrowe and the jacksons. she will not give up her parental rights. miss rowe will not accept any additional financial consideration beyond the spousal support her and michael jackson agreed to long ago. read between the lines here, you are a lawyer. as we look at this, it is tough. the point ran dee kaye made, no agreement has been reached, but certainly there are negotiations, so we can take it that they are ongoing here. >> without a doubt. i don't think either the jackson family or debbie rowe wants a public airing of the skeletons, if you are in the jackson closet

or the rowe closet. both families would like to avoid any public hearing. and the second part, the last part of that statement i find curious, because it says no further compensation outside the spousal support. i think that also is a little bit of a tell, too, if there's additional compensation, is it not going to be framed in a custody sort of package? is it going to be more in a spousal support package. it is interesting they use those words. >> you are seeing legal openings there to give money to her in some shape or form, right? >> there's a lot of wiggle room in that statement. >> let's bring in the executive editor for e.! how many times has debbie rowe cashed in on the kids and how much money do we know of? >> we don't know how much money. it has been reported anywhere from $10 million to $20 million, but the fact is this. debbie rowe has had very little if any contact with these children in the last five or ten

years. she later in 2005/2006 decided she changed her mind and did want contact with the kids. we do know she is the biological mother or the claim has been made, so the fact is that she may want to see these kids and have some sort of custodial arrange. but the fact is she doesn't have a relation shin. we are told by the attorneys that the judge in the case could very well ask the children themselves, what do you kids think? do you want to be with this woman? he will take them into consideration. i think it is a very complex thing. another point is debbie rowe doesn't want to get in some messy public spat with the jackson family. we just have just a few minutes ago where we found her former employee, dr. arnold klein, his office was essentially raided by the l.a. coroner's office. they gave a press conference. she used to work there. she doesn't want to get entangled in the web more than she already is. >> real quick to jennifer. why are the jacksons even

negotiating with her? >> because she does have some rights. she could stop the custody proceedings from moving very smoothly with mrs. jackson. she could standed in the way of being rubber-stamped by the judge. she alone could bring into question as to whether or not mrs. jackson is the right guardian for these children. if nobody else is coming up to step up and say, hey, look, i don't agree with mrs. jackson taking custody, it is going to go through the court system relatively smoothly. if there's nobody -- if there's nobody contesting the guardianship, it is easier for the jackson family. so she does play a role here. she can stand up and say no. >> wow, okay. guys, i have to leave it there. so much to get to. ken baker, jennifer smith, we appreciate it, guys. coming up, we'll update you on the tragic story of the florida couple shot in their own home. there they are. melanie and byrd billings.

they adopted many children with special needs yet brutally shot and killed. now seven people are in custody in the brutal killing. and you are going to hear and see emotion from a family member as they finally get the first piece of justice served.

new arrests in the serious murder of a couple known for adopting special needs kids. two teens, some dressed in ninja garb, broke into the melanie and byrd billings home. just hours ago the sheriff recounted how he is keeping his promise to one of the billings' daughters, ashley, in all of this. >> i asked you if there was anything i could do for you and your response back to me was, sheriff, find the people who did this. it is my honor today to tell you, ashley, and your family we

have found them and they are in custody. >> you can see the emotions there and the embrace. there are some that have been arrested. seven people now in custody, here's three. one of the suspects we are not showing is a minor, only 16 years old. here's some of the others. police say even more arrests are possible. joining me now to talk about this, ed eleven dale, from cnn. the number one question is, why? who would want to kill these two loving people who were so giving? >> well, that's where we are still at. for several days authorities here in pence cola have been saying that robbery was perhaps one of several motives, but authorities here backtracking away from that substantially today saying that there appears to be robbery to be the most prominent motive in this case. authorities were telling us today that the men who had broken into the house, they say,

made away with a medium-sized safe. they will not tell us what was inside of it and whether or not any of it has been recovered, but they say that was the motive that brought those men into that house. they do go on to say, however, that in the course of investigating these men that they also came across all sorts of different types of activity that they have passed on to other law enforcement agencies in that it really slowed down the investigation, checking out the backgrounds of all the suspects. >> what do we know about their background, ed? any of them with a violent past? what's the deal with them? >> several of them do have a checkered past with other long wrap sheets, but what is interesting, len nord patrick gonzalez jr. who authorities here say they believe is the ring leader of these alleged murders and organized and brought this group together. the sheriff here says he has a military background. one of the men who was also arrested two counties away, his

last name is stallworth, he is an active duty sergeant in the air force. an interesting background there. in fact, the authorities here are saying that in the weeks leading up to this attack on the billings family that these men kind of practiced a military-style training and rehearsed and carried -- how they were going to carry out the attacks on the billings' home. they had done that at the home of leonard patrick gonzalez sr. >> out of seven, how many are facing murder charges, ed? >> well, a lot of that is still a little fluent, but the attorney here in pensacola says it is his intention to make sure all of these suspects are charged and faced murder charges, including the 16-year-old who he says he wants to try as an adult. right now leonard patrick gonzalez sr. has been charged with tampering, but the state attorney is saying he wants to upgrade that to murder. it appears across the board all

the people will be facing murder charges at some point. >> do we know any more about the specifics of what went on inside the home in that four minutes they were in there? >> you know, that's the part that's really been hard to gather from these investigators, and they have been keeping it very close to the vest. we did ask for video images inside the home that was helping them, and they did say that was happening. the billings' home is just covered with surveillance cameras they used to keep tabs on all the children, special needs children who needed to be honored around the clock. that's what the cameras were used for. in this terrible situation, it was used to document their murder. the investigators here had told us they had been sending off the video images to the authorities and they were enhanced and that helped to piece together who was inside the house. >> we'll bring in don clark. don, do you think that the video is -- will show and has shown

authorities what happened inside the house? with the camera system, was it that expensive there? >> i really do. i think it was a great tool. it is obvious as been reported that they have the cameras for a different reason to really monitor the kids, but having that there, and that's a lesson we can probably take out in society here, too, we don't often have security cameras inside the facility, but this time i think it will give them a lot of information for which to make their cases. >> okay. guys, we are going to take a quick break and continue with ed and don about the investigation. we are also going to talk with susan barry, principal of the school where the billings' children attended. you know, we have talked a lot about it and we want information as to who would do this and what happened, but what about byrd and melanie? we want to know more about them as people. loving and giving. more on that coming up.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. coming up on our making news segment, we know retail sales in june are up. is that good news in a bad economy or not? ali will explain that for us. we also like to take your personal financial questions on the table for ali. call us at 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail them or text us. ali velshi is coming your way in a bit. a woman accused of hopping in a boy with a boy she was babysitting. she's 28, he's 14. summer nelson is behind bars, good. investigators say she told the boy's siblings, the little

brother and sister, that she's in love with big brother. she even asked for mom's blessing on the relationship. what? so the two can live as a couple. oh, brother. joining me to talk about this, cooper lawrence, a psychologist and author of the book "the cult of celebrity." we also have jody with us. jody, we'll start with you. when did this all begin here? >> apparently, it started in the summer of 2007. summer and the mom of this boy were friends and summer, i guess, began according to police, grooming the boy at that point. then in august of 2007, she was able to gain enough trust to babysit. >> grooming the boy, huh?@ oh, brother. okay, so she starts victimizing the 14-year-old. did the 12-year-old and

9-year-old, hopefully they weren't involved at all, were they? >> police say no. >> no. okay. how did the crime come to light? >> i guess it was a third-party that reported it to police and then began investigating back in december of 2008. >> so third-party, not the mom. mom, was she suspicious at all? what role did she play in all of this? >> if she was suspicious, she didn't report anything. according to the police, it would have been some scenario like either summer or the boy told someone else then and reported it to authorities. >> what charges is she facing? >> she faces four counts of lewd conduct with a minor, which could mean a sentence of up to life if she's convicted. >> wow. we'll bring in cooper lawrence on this. cooper, it sounds like mary kate latorna all over again. she is telling the little brother and sister that she is in love with the 14-year-old, i think he is now 16. asking for mom's blessing, what's going on in this woman's

mind here? >> it is a type of pediphelia. unfortunately, there are pedophiles with distinct sexual predators for certain age groups and we have to treat them. treating them is nearly impossible. i rarely see anybody that doesn't have medication or some extreme sort of castration or that sort of thing where they actually stop. the rate is very high. the only good thing here is that she's 28 and we found out now, because heaven forbid she starts at 28 and it goes on for many more years and then people don't find out that she has this disorder. somebody that is sexually aroused by children between the ages of 11 and 14, it is a specific age range because they are either on their way into puberty or they are actually -- they are starting to reach

puberty. it is a sickness, a disorder. there's nothing okay about this and there are links to different mental disorders that are linked to hebophilia. you have to think there's some sort of psychopathology here that she asked for the mom's blessing. there's a problem. >> so wrong. real quick, back to jody. was summer nelson ever married? did she ever have relationships with men her own age? >> i do not know that. >> okay. because sometimes we see in this that someone at 28, 29, with stories in the past, we'll find out they are married with a couple kids and yet they are shacking up with some 13 or 14-year-old. what leads to this, cooper? i mean, you are talking about mental disorders, what else from the past can lead to this? >> well, a lot of hebaphiles and pedophiles have been sexually abused or physically abused as a child. i'm not trying to make an excuse, but i'm trying to

explain where the behavior comes from. >> what about the younger ones, the sister and brother who heard the story and heard -- what kind of damage could that be suffering here? >> well, i think it could cause anxiety in children this young because now they are going to see you can't trust somebody like her. you shouldn't look like the creepy pedophile in the movies, so it is very disarming for a child because they don't know who to trust. their world feels shaky. they don't know there's no foundation there anymore. so for the child that was abused, i mean, it is countless what can happen to them. anything from drug abuse, it is all just negative outcomes. the younger children who know about it, it is not uncommon to see anxiety disorders. >> jody lawrence turner, one last thing. any other victims out there. police are fearful she babysat other kids and tried this stuff? >> the police say at this point they have completed their investigation and not found any other victims. >> okay. all right. i guess that's a ray of silver lining in all of this. jody lawrence turner, thank you

for your reporting. cooper, always good to talk to you. coming up, retail sales up in the month of june. is that a good thing? good news in a bad economy or not? we'll welcome back ali velshi, she is a correspondent for cnn. we are also taking your personal financial questions. get to the phones, 1-877-tell-hln.

it is time for our making sense segment. your personal financial questions on tap answered by the expert ali velshi. you can call us, 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us, text us as well. by the way, the website is cnn.com/primenews. you know her, it is ali velshi. she is author of the book "give me my money back." ali, good to have you back. let's hit on the news item of the day. june retail sales up. is that the good news in the bad economy we like to talk about or not? >> well, it is mixed news. this is one of the benefits of being on the show and finding out what's going on out there because some people believe it is good news. it is not really. this is a government survey of everything that is sold. gas prices give you an uptick in this measure. if you take gas and cars that have sold better than they have

a few months ago, if you take all that out of it, we are not really up. in fact, the measure that i like to use is what we call same store sales. that comparison against stores that were open a year ago of all the major retailers, and that's actually down. what's the issue, mike? the issue is people are still finding it tough to get credit. we are a nation that's used to buying things on credit. our available credit as we know from people who have called us has gone down, so, in fact, it is a mixed message out. there it is not yet signs people are out there shopping again. >> gotcha. a lot of e-mails here, ali. let's get to them. this is heart-wrenching from noreen. i have a trust fund from my adult son who needs care when i'm gone. the trust has lost money like crazy. should i pull it and invest in cds here? >> that is a tough one. noreen, a trust fund needs to be treated like another investment. it has to do with the time horizon. it would be tempting after losing 35% to 40% to put it in a

cd, but cds are not earning much money right now. depending on how old your son is and when he needs to access the money. if it is five, ten years away, then maybe that's not the right thing to do. but you need to bring this to someone to look at your financial situation. the cds are not going to earn you the money back that you lost. you have to treat the trust fund like a 401(k) or an ira. the issue is how long it is before your son needs to access it. >> what is everyone's personal philosophy? how much risk are you willing to take, right? >> i can tell you what to do, but noreen, if you are losing sleep over this or feeling sick or anxious, we can't be doing that, either. you have to find a balance between the risk that you can take and the comfort that tuk feel. it is very important. >> let's get another e-mail here, ali. this is from heather. it is one we talked about with the 401(k). i currently have over $10,000 in

credit card debt. if i take a loan from my how 1 k 401(k) and pay it back with 4.2%, the rates on my credit cards vary from 3.99% to 17%. is this something that i should do? >> i don't know how old you are, heather, but taking a loan from your 401(k) is taking money from your requirement. while it should be an option, it should be your last option. i tend to say take a loan on your 401(k) if it is going to keep you in your house and you are going to lose your house. you take that 401(k), some people don't pay it down on time, i would rather be very aggressive about trying to renegotiate the rate on some of the credit cards. take the runs with 17% and try to renegotiate them down and do everything you can, throw the book at trying to settle the debts or get those paid down before you take the 401(k). that's your retirement. >> if that's down the line, borrowing the 401(k),

renegotiating is step one. what's step two if the banks and creditors aren't willing to renegotiate? >> then you have to sit there and say, can i take that 4.25% loan out of my 401(k) and make sure, there are penalties if you don't pay it back in the time you are allowed. people have $10,000 on credit card, they pay that off with some other loan like the 401(k), but what you don't realize is that you have a threshold for a certain amount of debt. so guess what, now you have the burden off your chest and next thing you know you have $10,000 worth of credit card debt and you owe your 401(k) dollars. it is like the last question, it has to do with who you are as a person. >> this is from amy. she is the and has $25,000 in credit card debt. a credit counselor told me bankruptcy is my best option. my dad offered a co-sign a loan to cover about half of the total. is that even worth it? >> co-signing is not a bad idea

to avoid bankruptcy, the problem is it is half the loan k. paying off half the loan keep her from bankruptcy? if it can, it is a better option than bankruptcy. bankruptcy does ruin your credit for a long time. if anything you can do to avoid bankruptcy is good, if they are only giving you half the loan, what do you do? >> good question. >> if she can make some negotiation where half the loan keeps her out of bankruptcy or they can get more of a loan, i would say that's the route to take. >> we are getting the picture from you. the bankruptcy option, borrowing off the 401(k), way down the line. other steps to take here. >> last resort type of stuff. >> ali velshi, chief business correspondent for our sister network cnn. also author of the book "give me my money back." we'll talk about the gosselins. it has beenless than a month since jon and kate announced they are splitting, but jon is out in the town in france with his new girlfriend. we are hearing she is no angel. what is the father of eight thinking here? we want your thoughts, 1-877-tell-hln.

we want to hear from you on this one. call in. i wonder what is jon gosselin thinking? he is gal haven'ting around france with a girlfriend in her early 20s while he has eight kids back home. we are getting new pictures of the couple living it up on a yacht in the french rivera. there they are puffing the cigarettes, sipping the champagne. the new flame, haley glassman, she is no angel. she was arrested for drug to possession in '05 and she was hanging with a crowd that a former coworker calls sexual and shutty. slutty. what a nice role model. jon, let's devil into this one. how can this affect custody battles down the line.

we'll take your phone calls to 1-877-tell-hln. we want to hear your thoughts. jennifer, if i'm kate gosselin, i'm thinking this is a legal gift for me because, i mean, wouldn't you use those pictures and say, judge, not the best judgment here. >> absolutely. i think what she has managed to do is show just how little he thinks about what this is going to do for him. it shows a level of immaturity, i think, in my mind. first of all, the marriage isn't anywhere near to be over right now. i mean, it is the middle of a divorce. the divorce was just announced. and he's already off gal haven'ting across the world. it shows a level of a lack of consideration and it shows, also, that he's really thinking about himself right now and not about the kids. this is a gift, a gift to kate. i agree 100%. >> he is acting like -- she's

22, he's acting like a 22-year-old himself. how do you use this legally? how do you present that to a judge in somewhat of a custody issue? >> well, what's interesting is right now the kate and jon are leaving the kids at home and shifting back and forth for visitation purposes. if i were kate i would say, make sure that the new girlfriend isn't introduced to the kids. the last thing you want is a revolving door of girlfriends. quite frankly, one girlfriend here that has shown some questionable discretion, shall we say, with regard to her drug use that has been fully documented. you want to keep her away because we don't know how long she's going to last in jon's life. you want to make sure that the kid are not exposed to anything that is going to confuse them even more in this particular situation. >> we are talking about eight young kids here. let's bring back, welcome carlos

diaz, a national correspondent. what do we know about haley glassman, glassman, carlos. >> she's young, you know, she's ten years younger than he is. and i mean, you guys have made great points. how can a guy be in the public eye for the last five or six years and know exactly what it's like to be on national tv and have your entire life under the microscope and not know that every move you make as a single man is going to be documented. how can you not be more careful about that or just for the sake of at least the two oldest girls in your family, they can read the magazines. they hear the gossip. they know that their dad, they can see their dad with another person. it is a gift to kate because it makes him in a court of public opinion look like a jerk. >> well, put. you nailed it. i mean, what he does, he's not in a vacuum. it's like, what are you thinking? hello. you said it, the older kids, even the younger ones down the

road, this is all being documented hopefully they won't see it at some point. just the lack of judgment from him is mind boggling. >> he's been so long saying i didn't have an fair, i didn't cheat on kate. but you know, the minute they file papers, he's in st. tro pez with another woman having a great time. he said it at that last episode, i'm only 32. i have my entire life to look forward to. you know what, he's not wasting any time to get to that life. >> he said in a snippet, i'm excited. what do you mean? you're splitting up from your wife. but the eight kids and the family breaking up? it was odd. want to hear from you. call in on this, 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number.

a scathing report about michael jackson's ex-. word of a $4 million deal that if debbie rowe gives up, stops fighting for custody of the kids. now, her lawyer denies it, says she doesn't want jackson's money. we're going to get to the bottom of all that for you. and a baby-sitter accused of jumping in the sack with a 14-year-old boy. at least four times this happened. she's 28. police say she even asked for p mom's blessing on this sick relationship so they could be a couple? oh, brother. join us on the show. love hearing from you. call in, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. e-mail us cnn.com/primenews or text us at hlntv and start your message with the word prime. it's your chance to be heard. controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news."

welcome to hour two of "prime news." i'm mike galanos. a sick twist in the fight for michael jackson's kids. the "new york post" is reporting debbie rowe, jackson's ex-wife, agreed to drop any custody challenge for $4 million. her attorney denies it, says it's completely false. he's even asking for the post" to file a retraction. rowe is the biological mom of jackson's two oldest kids and already received a million through preview custody battles. either way, your heart has to break for these kids. you don't know what they know. joining us, randi kaye from cnn. ran randi's been all over this. get us up to date on the custody battle. >> there was a lot of drama today. the york post" reporting that debbie rowe has reached a deal apparently in exchange for the two kids she had with michael jackson, $4 million apparently heading her way. the newspaper also said she would forfeit her parental rights, all of this according to

a family source supposedly. cnn, we called debbie rowe's attorney to ask if the story was true and we were told "completely false." that was print this had morning. but hours later her attorney as the drama continues to unfold, demanded a retraction and sent a letter which i have right here. it reads in part "this letter constitutes a demand for an immediate retraction and goes on to say there has been no agreement reached between ms. rowe and the jackson and she will not give up her parental rights. also that no decision has been made on custody or visitation. the letter says an agreement hasn't been reached. we reported last night a deal is being brokered by the family's attorney and that debbie rowe, according to our source close to the family is expected to be paid "many millions for giving up custody visitation." >> another thing we want to hit on before we go further, the

investigation. we've been locking down on custody so much. what is the latest on that front? >> that continues to unfold every hour really as we reported, as you know, there is a list of doctors that our source told us investigators have been working their way through, learning what they can about the doctors and what they prescribed michael jackson trying to figure out if any of these medications may have contributed to his death. our source told us last week along with his personal physician dr. conrad murray, his longtime dermatologist dr. arnold klein is on that list. he told larry king last week that he's he has not been questioned but late today, a swarm, and i mean a swarm of media descended on dr. klein's office in beverly hills, apparently the assistant coroner who's also the chief investigator for the coroner's office was there to pick up records related to dr. klein's treatment of michael jackson. we know jackson was at dr. klein's office a few days before his death. klein said he danced for the

other patients, he looked healthy. but ed winter the assistant coroner spoke when he left dr. klein's office. take a lis. >> and still conducting our investigation. there is a security hold on the case and i can't comment. >> are you looking at medication as well? >> no, no, just we're looking at some documentation that dr. klein's agreed to provide to us. >> medical records of michael jackson? >> yes. >> say a thing about the toxicology report? >> no, we hope to have the findings probably in the middle of this next week. >> how many medical records have you been able to get? >> dr. klein has cooperated with us. extensively and that's all i can say. >> and dr. klein has said all along and so has his lawyer that they have cooperated and opened up their records. what this means for the investigation is still unclear but investigators still appear to be gathering as much information as they can to try and make sense what role jackson's many doctors may have played in his death.

>> randi, one more. what about autopsy report, any time line, we're hearing as early as friday? >> right. even today the lead investigator for the coroner's office said could come as early as friday but more likely midweek next week. >> let's welcome in some of our other guests as we continue to talk about all the different facets in the michael jackson case. zone in on custody here a little bit. welcome back family law attorney jennifer smedders, also with us carlosdy as, extra" correspondent. jennifer, let's get through that legal statement here as we talk about the "new york post" reporting a deal done. debbie rowe is going to take the money and run again. her lawyer saying no, that's not the truth. what do you make of this document? we've got four bullet points. what do you glean from it as a lawyer here? >> what i read from it, mike, is really that negotiations are taking place, an agreement hasn't been reached yet but it

does say an agreement is in the works in some way, shape, or form, that she's not going to give up her parental rights, however, that doesn't mean visitation -- that could -- visitation may still be on the table. which is interesting. and also, it talks about a financial option that the financial -- she's not going to be seeking any more money outside of her spouse support. so there's really an interesting crafted document there in terms of the word choice they used. i think there's a lot of room in that document to actually provide for some sort of comprehensive agreement between rowe and the jacksons so that none of this is ever heard in a public court. >> okay. guys, we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, we'll talk more about this. does she have parental rights or not? and as we see this unfold, i mean, how many times can debbie rowe cash in for being the biological mom of the two oldest kids? the number 1-877-tell-hln.

you're a very important part of the show. i want to know what you think. love to take your phone calls. here's the number, dive in, 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us@cnn.com/"prime news" or text us at hlntv. the number is 45688. start your message with the word prime and we like to show your thoughts throughout the show. concerning michael jackson, battle for custody is a big issue here. gary in oklahoma is with us. your comment or question? gary? >> caller: yes. >> go ahead, you're up.

>> caller: yes, my question is, i thought it was against the law for people to sell their children. and basically that's what this lady's doing. and the jackson family are buying them. they're paying a cash award or whatever to this lady. to me, that's just like they're offering to buy them and she's offering to sell. >> gary, a lot of people are probably wondering that same thing. carlos, first to you. how many times has debbie rowe that we know of for lack of a better term cashed in on these kids like casino chips. >> that's the thing. she gave up parental rights back if 2001 and then the judge reversed that order a few years later. you know, it's happened time and time again. people forget even if katherine jackson and debbie rowe come to an agreement, the courts still have a say in this. right now they're playing a high profile game of chicken. the lawyers for katherine and debbie rowe are posturing because katherine jackson has so

many other things to worry about. they have the estate. they still have not buried michael jackson. basically debbie rowe's lawyers are saying do you want to get us out of the way and katherine jackson and the family want to get this out of the way as soon as they can. >> let's get another call in. rosie, your thoughts here? >> caller: i think it's a shame. i'm like that man. shouldn't be buying kids. but my heart goes out to the jackson family. as far as that woman's concerned, that's a complete mess. i was watching tv the other night and said she has spent so much money on a facelift and all that. she need to get her money back and ought to quit trying -- need to get a job. they say she's a nurse. quit trying to capitalize on these kids. these kids are going to be going through a lot and don't need that man/woman there bothering them. >> easy, rosie. tough stuff. debbie rowe is not the most popular figure in all this. we'll take that away from

rosie's comments. jennifer, focusinging this on a common sense front sounds like she is cashing in on the kids. is that a legal issue or not? obviously not because she keeps doing it, i guess. >> you're right on some level. i mean, the past is a good indication of the future i guess here. i do understand the public's distaste for this woman because it you does look as if she is once again going to the well and getting more money for these kids. i would highly doubt that we would ever see any talk of money in any of the guardianship documents whether she ultimately gets visitation or whether she gets -- or she's denied all contact with the children by agreement with the jackson family. you're just not going to see a dollar amount in whatever order, court order that ultimately gets entered in on this case. it's going to be kept private and going to be kept

confidential. you're always going to have people saying sources close to the parties trying to give dollar amounts. you cannot trade children for money. it's ridiculous. >> so a lot of people wonder, the first caller mentioned that. why do the jacksons even negotiate? she has gotten her money at least once, probably twice, now going for a third go round here. why don't they just say no? >> realistically speaking she is the parent of the child. she does have parental rights. she could petition the court and ask for visitation and slowly try to rebuild her relationship with the children. so that she becomes a fixture in their lives. so she does have standing. she does have potential rights. but she's not doing any of the legwork in order to really become part of these children's lives. this would be the perfect spring board for her to get back in and become a mom.

now, it would be in baby steps. i don't see a court granting immediate unsupervised visitation with overnights, something you traditionally see in some sort of custody/divorce type situation. but if she played her cards right and really wanted those kids, she could get back in in baby steps. >> more coming up. stay with us.

a new arrest in the mysterious deaths of a couple known for adopting special needs kids. two teens symptom dressed in ninja garb broke into the home last week. just hours ago, the sheriff recounted how he's keeping his promise to one of the billings daughters, ashley, in all this. >> i ask you if there was anything that i could do for you and your response was back to me, sheriff, find the people who did this. it is my honor today to tell you, ashley and your family, we

have found them. and they are in custody. >> you can see the emotions there and the embrace. there are some that have been arrested. seven people now in custody. here's three. one of the suspects we're not showing is a minor, only 16 years old. here are some of the others. police say even more arrests are possible. joining me to talk about this, ed lavandera reporter from cnn. we have the seven. still the number one question is why, who would want to kill these two people who are so loving and so giving? >> well, that's where we're still at. for several days, authorities in pensacola have been saying that robbery was perhaps one of several motives. but authorities backtracking away from that substantial little saying that it appears robbery will probably be the most prominent motive in this case. authorities telling us today that the men who had broken into the house, they say made away

with a medium sized safe and would not tell us what was inside and whether or not any of it has been recovered. they say that was the motive that brought those men into that house. they do go on to say, however in, the course of investigating these men they came across all sorts of other types of activity they've passed on to other law enforcement agencies and that slowed down the investigation checking out the boundaries of these suspects. >> what do we know about their background? any of them have a violent past? what's the deal with them? >> several of them do have, in the words of the sheriff, a checkered past with other long rap sheets in many cases. what's interesting about a couple of them, leonard patrick gonzales, junior, who authorities say they believe is the ringleader of these alleged murderers brought this group together. the sheriff says he has a military background. one of the men who was also arrested two counties away, his

last name is stallworth is an active duty staff sergeant in the air force. so interesting background there, in fact, the authorities here are saying that in the weeks leading occupy this attack on the billings family, that these men also practiced kind of a military style training and rehearsed how they were going to carry out these attacks on the billings home and that they had done that at the home of leonard patrick gonzales senior. >> wow. okay, so out of the seven, how many are facing murder charges, ed? >> well, that is still a little bit fluid but the attorney here in pensacola says it's his intention to make sure that all of the suspects are charged and face murder charges, including the 16-year-old who he says he wants to try as an adult. right now, patrick gonzales, leonard patrick gonzales senior has only been charged with tampering, but the state attorney -- tampering with evidence but the state attorney saying he wants to upgrade that to murder. it appears across the board, all

of these people will be facing murder charges at some point. >> do we know any more about specifics of what went on inside the home in that four minutes they were in there? >> you know, that's the part that's really been hard to gather from these investigators. that's -- they've been keeping that very close to the vest. we did ask if there was video images inside the home that was helping them. they did tell us that that indeed was happening. the billings home as we have talked about is just covered with surveillance cameras they had used to keep tabs on all of the children, special needs children who needed to be monitors around the clock. that's what those cameras were used for in this terrible situation, it was used to perhaps document their murder. the investigators here had told us they had been sending off video images to federal authorities. they were enhances and they say that helped them in piecing together who was inside the house. >> don clark, former fbi special agent. don, do you think that that video is -- will show and has

shown authorities what happened inside that house? was it -- was the camera system that extensive there? >> i really do, mike. i think that was a great tool that's obvious as has been reported that they had these cameras to kind of monitor the kids but having that there, and that's a lesson i think we can probably take out in society here, too. we don't often have security cameras inside the facility but this time i think it's going to give them a lot of information from which to make their cases. >> we're going to take a quick break and continue with ed and don about the investigation. we're also going to talk with susan barry, principal of the school the children attended. we've talked a lot we want information who would do this and why and what happened. but what you but byrd and melanie? we want to know about them as people. loving and giving. more on that coming up. stay with us.

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announcer: captioned telephone - enjoy the phone again! welcome back to "prime news" here on hln. coming up on "making news" segment with ali velshi, we know this, retail sales in june up. is that good news in a bad economy or not? ali is going to explain for us. we always like to take your calls and questions, your personal financial questions on the table for ali. call us 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us@cnn.com/"prime news." text us at hlntv. ali velshi coming your way in a little bit. this is sickening. a woman accused of hopping in bed with a boy she was hired to baby-sit. she's 28, he's 14. police in post falls, idaho say they had sex at least four times. summer nelson behind bars. good. investigators say she told the

boy's siblings she's in love with big brother, even asked for mom's blessing on the relationship. what? so the two could live as a couple. oh, brother. joining me to talk about this, cooper lawrence is a psychologist, also author of the book "the cult of celebrity" and jodie lawrence turner joining us by phone a writer for the spokane spokesman review. jodie, when did all this begin here? >> apparently it started in the summer of 2007. summer and the mom of this boy were friends and summer i guess began, according to police, grooming the boy at that point. then in august of 2007, she was able to gain enough trust to baby-sit. >> grooming the boy, huh? brother. so she starts victimizing the 14-year-old. did the 12-year-old, the

9-year-old, hopefully they weren't involved at all were, they. >> police say no. >> how did the crime come to life, jody? >> i guess it was a third party that report it had to police who then began investigating back in december of 2008. >> so a third party, not the mom. was the mom suspicious at all? what role did she play in all this? >> if she was suspicious, she didn't report anything. according to police, it would have been some scenario like either summer or the boy told someone else then reported it to authorities. >> got you. what charges is she facing? >> she faces four counts of lewd conduct with a minor. which could mean a sentence of up to life if she's convicted. >> wow. let's bring in cooper lawrence. it sounds like mary kayla turn know all over again telling the little brother and sister, she doesn't see there's anything wrong with this. she's in love with the 14-year-old, asking for mom's

blessing. what's going on in her mind here. >> it's a kind of pedophilia called h eed hebephilia. >> unfortunately, there are pedophiles with distinct sexual preferences and we have to define them in order to treat them. treating them is nearly impossible. i rarely anybody that doesn't have medication or some extreme sort of like castration that, sort of thing where they actually stop. the recidivism rate is very high. the only good thing here, she's 28 and we found out now because heaven for bid she starts at 28 and it goes on for many more years and people don't find out she has this disorder. somebody that's a heb file is be interested in children between the ages of 11 and 14, a very specific age range because they are either on their way into pubert or prepubescent or starting to reach puberty.

and it's a sickness, it's a disorder. there's nothing okay about this. there are links to different mental disorders linked to heb feelia, like for example, psychopatholo psychopathology. you have to think there's some psychopathology going here that she asked for the mother's blessing. it's a problem. >> so wrong. real quick back to jody lawrence turner. was summer nelson ever paerd? did she ever have relationships with men her own age? >> i do not know that. cooper, sometimes we see in in that one 28, 29, stories we've done in the past, we'll find out they're married with a couple of kids and shacking up with some 13 or 14-year-old. what leads to this, cooper? you're talking about mental disorders? what else from the past can lead to this? >> a lot of heb bow files and pedophiles have been abused as a child. i'm not making an excuse but trying to explain where the behavior stems from.

>> how about the little ones, the younger sister and brother who heard -- what kind of damage could they be suffering here? >> i think it would cause a lot of anxiety in children that young. now they're going to learn that you can't trust somebody -- look at the picture. she doesn't look like the creepy pedophile or hebophile that we see in the means. their world feels shaky. there's no foundation there anymore. for the child that was abused, it's countless what can happen to them, everything from drug abuse to -- it's all negative outcomes and the younger children who know about it, it's not uncommon to see anxiety disorders. >> jody lawrence turner, one last thing. are police fearful she baby-sat other kids and tried this stuff? >> the police say they have completed their investigation and not found any other victims. >> all right. well, i guess that's a ray of silver lining in all this.

jody, thanks for your reporting. cooler, thanks for your insights. coming up, retail sales up in the month of june. good news in a bad economy or not? we'll welcome back ali velshi from our sister network cnn and taking your personal financial questions. get to the phones. 1-877-tell-hln.

it's now time for our "making cents" segment, your personal financial questions on tap answered by the expert, ali velshi. you can call us 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us text us as well, by the way, the website c n n p m cnn.com/primene cnn.com/primenews. you know him, he's ali velshi, chief business correspondent for our sister network cnn and author of the book "give me my money back." let's hit on the news item of the day, june retail sales up. is that the good news in a bad economy you like to talk about or not? >> well, it's mixed news. this is one of those benefits of being on this show and getting calls and finding out what's really going on out there. some people think it means it's good news. this is a government survey of everything that's sold. so gas prices when they go up give you an uptick in this measure. if you take gas and cars that have sold better than a few

months ago, if you take that out of it, we're not really up. the measure i like to use is what we call same-store sales, a comparison of stores open a year ago of all the major retailers and those are down. people are still finding it tough to get credit. we're a nation used to buying things on credit. our available credit as we know from people who have called us has gone down. in fact, it's a mixed message out there not yet signs that people are shopping again. >> got you. a lot of e-mails here. let's get to them here. heart wrenching from noreen writing this. i have a trust fund for my adult epileptic son who will need care when i'm gone. the trust has lost mown like crazy. should i pull it and invest in cds here. >> that is a tough one. a trust fund needs to be treated like any other investment. it would be very tempting at this point after losing 35, 40% to put it in cds. they're not earning much money

right now. it depending on how would your son is and when he needs to access that money. if it's five, ten, 15 years away, i don't know if that's the right thing to do right now. you should consult with somebody who can look at your entire financial situation. if you can't sleep at night because you've got this the trust fund dwindle, then cds are safe but it's not going to earn you the money back you've lost. this is a personal decision. treat the trust fund the same way you would a 401(k) or ira. the issue is how long before your son needs to access it. >> what's everyone's personal philosophy, how much risk are you willing to take. >> the bottom line, if you're losing sleep over this every night and feeling sick and anxious, we can't be doing that either. you've got to find a balance between the risk you can take and comfort you feel. it's very important. >> let's hit another e-mail from heather. it's one we talked about dealing with a 401(k). here it is. i currently have just over

$10,000 in credit card debt. if i take a loan from my 401(k) i pay it back with 4.25 interest. the rates on my credit cards vary from 3.99 to 17%. >> i don't know how would you are. taking a loan from your 401(k) is taking money of your retirement. while it should be an option if it's your last option, you shouldn't be going to it earlier than your absolute last option. so i tend to say take a loan on your 401(k) if it's a thing going to keep you in your house and you're going to lose your house. what tends to happen, you take that out, some people don't pay it down on time. i'd rather be very aggressive about trying to renegotiate the rate on the credit cards. try to renegotiate them down and do everything you can to settle those debts or get those paid down before you hit the 401(k). that's your retirement. >> okay. so if that's down the line borrowing off the 401(k), what's

step two if the banks and your creditors aren't willing to renegotiate? >> then you have to say, can i take that 4.25% loan off my 401(k) and make sure because there are penalties if you don't pay it back in the time allowed. people have $10,000 on credit card, they pay that off with some other loan like the 401(k). you don't realize you have a threshold for a certain amount of debt. now you've got the burden off your chest and next thing you know you've got $10,000 worth of credit card debt and owe your 401(k). it has to do with who are you as a person. >> this one from amy, 29, says i have a $25,000 in credit card debts. a credit counselor told me bankruptcy is my best option. my dad has offered to co-sign a loan to cover about half the total. is that even wofrth it. >> i think it's great your dad's offered to do that. it's not a bad idea if you can get someone to do that to avoid bankruptcy, it's a good idea.

it's half the loan. can paying off half the loan keep her out of bankruptcy? if it can, i think it's a better option. bankruptcy does ruin your credit for a long time. anything you can do to avoid going into bankruptcy is good. if they're only giving you half the loan, what do you do? >> always good material. >> if she can make some negotiation where half the loan keeps her out of bankruptcy or they can get more of a loan, i'd say that's the way. >> the bankruptcy option, borrowing off the 401(k) way down the line. other steps we need to take here. >> last resort kind of stuff. >> ali velshi, sister network cnn author of the book "give me my money back." we'll talk ÷soon. let's talk about the gosselins. less than a month since jon and kate announced they were splitting up. jon is already out on the town in france with his new girlfriend. we're hearing she's no angel. what is jon, the father of eight thinking here? wants your thoughts. call in. 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back. a pretty classy here of jon gosselin of jon and kate plus 8" galavanting around france with his 22-year-old girlfriend when he's got eight kids back home. now jon and kate, there they are, sipping the champagne. they just announced divorce plans about a month ago and here they are living it up in the french riviera, sipping the chap paining, puffing on cigarettes. that's great, huh you? wonder what is the guy thinking here? and then you start delving into her, hailey glass man is no angel here. it's mind boggling he's butting this. jane valess mitching coming your way 12, 13 minutes at the top of the hour. first off, let's give everyone a little bit, first off, hailey

glass man is the daughter of the doctor who gave kate gosselin the tummy tuck. >> that hurts. >> that hurts right there. as you said before the break, bad form to start. you talk about hailey, her friends said she hung out with a crowd that was sexual and slutty. you're taking her home to meet the eight kids? >> this is all bringing me back to high school. these people are supposed to be dulls and literally this is high school behavior. to me, playing arm chair psychologist, it seems like jon wants to get a reaction out of kate. i mean, you don't show up holding hands with somebody when you've just announced your separation and you're not even divorced yet. you've got eight kids back at home unless it's something personal and you're trying to send the person who may have scorned you a message. this is hurtful behavior. there's no other way to put it. >> yeah. and you hit it right. i'm right with you on two fronts.

he's acting like a 20-year-old himself. >> 17. >> let's go back to high school. i'm not even going to give him early college years. he's a high schooler. and that's part of what we find wrong with the jon gosselin from the get-go, that he acted like a kid even when he was supposed to be a father and a husband. now he's really going for it now that a divorce is pending and he doesn't seem to have the same ties as he's prayeding around the french riviera with a checkered past. >> where does reality end? is the boundary pennsylvania or does it go all the way across the pond to france where they're cavorting? are they going to include this in their show? if they don't, since people have seen this on the news, are people going to say wait a second, we're not getting the real story on jon and kate plus 8" whatever they're going to call it, maybe it's jon and kate plus who knows who. >> right. hey, i think we have someone on the line that disagrees with us,

jane. catherine in virginia. catherine, your thoughts here? >> caller: yeah, hey, mike. i like to say a comment. hey, m. i do agree that, you know, he is acting childish, but at the same time, i don't think it is surprising at all. i mean, he's been on lockdown for ten years with kate. you know, i mean, it is stupid things he is doing, but that doesn't mean he doesn't love his kids or care for his kids because he's in the french rivera. >> i understand on one front, but these children, especially the two older ones, they can read the publications. they might be seeing this unfold. that is hurtful to them. even the younger ones, this is all being con killed. i disagree with the caller on this point, what he doesn't care about is the whole world is watching. >> absolutely. nobody asked him to have eight kids. when you have eight kids, you have a certain responsibility. if you are going to take that responsibility on, there are

consequences. and that's why this whole show is a cautionary tale about the dangers of -- look at most of the crimes we cover. mike, it is young people who are kids themselves having kids and behaving irresponsibly with those kids. it is just another variation of that scene. if you are going to have one child, it is going to change your life. if you are going to have eight children, you have to realize that that comes with restrictions and boundaries and your life is going to change. no, you are not going to be able to go running off to the french rivera, but if you do, expect to be criticized. >> you are a role model for these eight children. not to mention, it could come back to haunt him in a custody battle. jane, when we come back, we'll talk about michael jackson and those custody issues. that's coming up. ñññoññ o i'll clean the pool if you clean the windows.

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