breaking news. a boy's body found in a canal has been tentatively identified as robert manwill. the 8-year-old digs appeared nearly two weeks ago, and now this devastateding news. and this hour we await a news conference. do the police know what happened to little robert. a couple accused of making child porn videos in their own houfs. some of the alleged victims were as young as 2 years old. this hour as the suspects sit behind bars, cops frantically search for more victims. you're part of the show. we love hearing from you. call in, the number 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us at cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv, just start

your message with the word prime. it's your chance to be heard. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is "prime news." let's get back to our breaking news story. a little boy's body found in an irrigation canal has tentatively been identified as 8-year-old robert manwill. sad to report that. the coroner's office in idaho broke the news a short time ago. a positive i.d. won't be made until they get the dental records. the body was found less than a half mile from robert's mother's apartment where he was last seen july 24th. this hour we await an urgent news conference. will we hear more about what happened to little robert. as always, we take your calls. former member of the fbi joint terrorism task force. he's also a detective lieutenant with the new jersey police

department. also joining us, pat brown, criminal profiler. and nate shellman for kboi news radio from boise, idaho. nate, let's start with you. you're right there on the ground. do we know how little robert died? >> no, we don't yet. just a correction, the body was found actually miles away from his mother's apartment. >> miles, plural? >> and there's an opening to the canal. it's called the new york canal. it's a pretty sizeable canal, with very steep concrete sides. and there is a point that he could have entered that within a half mile from his mom's apartment. but where the body was found was over five miles away from robert's mom's apartment. >> okay. thanks for that clarification. we were under the impression it was closer. let me get steve rogers in on this and we'll get back to you, nate. steve, hearing that, i mean, these are the questions we have, as difficult as they are to ask. the body could have floated that far, right? in the time since he was

missing, july 24th? >> sure. the police are going to check on the currents in the river, weather conditions. but i must tell you that the police will no doubt go back to ground zero. and that's the people closest to the young victim. they're going to be interviewing and re-interviewing the parents, aunts, uncles, neighbors, anyone who would have had contact with this child. that's going to be a very, very intense investigation starting today. >> nate, let's get back to you. there in boise. nate, do we have any reaction from the family yet of this tentative identification of robert manwill? >> the only reaction we've seen from the family was last week at the press conference searching for volunteers, and some conferences they had shown up. but she didn't speak. some conferences the dad had shown up. but he didn't speak. now, as far as the canal goes, there are body gates, and we've

had people here agree and disagree to whether or not there were actual gates down on the canal. there's a lot of people saying that it is actually plausible for a body to have flowed that distance from the mom's apartment. >> coincides with what steve is saying, it could have floated. what do you mean by gates? you're saying there are gates down in the water that would have stopped the body from flowing that far? >> correct. they're loosely called body gates. the unfortunate about the pressure valley area, we do see accidents, people are told time and time again not to float the canal. but with 100-degree weather, people float canals, they float rivers and accidents happen. these gates are actually set up to prevent that from happening. we haven't heard yet how long the body was in the canal, how long the body was in the water. we did hear from boise police last week that robert may have been the victim of a tragic eve event. and we got that from the deputy chief of police. >> yeah. the home had been searched,

right? nate, let's stay with you. the mom's apartment had been searched, and after that search is when they came with that declaration, correct? >> the mom's home had been searched. this was last thursday, that the mom's home had been searched. another home had been searched north of her apartment. there was police and the sheriff's department digging around, taking pictures. cars had been searched and taken into the police department for searching. so the boise police and the sheriff's department have been tight-lipped on how many details they let out. the only thing they wanted to do is really fortify the community, and they did. they got over 2,000 volunteers last week to search for robert. >> if you're just joining us again, there's been a tentative identification of a body found in boise is that of 8-year-old robert manwill. i want to bring in pat brown as we try to figure out what happened to little robert, who

could be responsible. as steve said, we have to get back to ground zero. his mom, live-in boyfriend, have a checkered past. >> this is a house that has violence already known to be in it. his little brother was, little infant who the mother struck his head on something, caused horrific damage to that child. and for some reason, she didn't go to jail over it. she just got a little bit of a fine and tap on the wrist. they did take the child out of the house. but what's interesting is they left another child to be in that house. why that child was allowed to visit a home where there is a known violent parent, and also a felon living with her, is beyond me. >> okay. i asked that very question yesterday. we're still trying to figure that out. pat, what are you looking for here? >> well, i think the police are looking for some evidence of an assault happening in that house. i'm guessing it is some kind of blunt trauma, which is probably why they can look at the child to see blunt trauma on that child. hopefully they're going to show something in that house to how that went down.

they figure the water is going to wash away evidence and that's correct, but if you can go back to the house and back to the vehicle, which might have moved the body, then they might find something that will link that crime back to that particular location. >> steve rogers, let me go back to you. again, as nate pointed out, mom's apartment searched, after that, the declaration made, that robert may have been the victim of a tragic event. what do you think was found at that time? >> it tells me that the police found something critical in that case. it started at ground zero, it may end at ground zero. >> angela is with us from illinois. angela, comment, question here? >> caller: yeah, i have a couple questions and comments. >> yeah. >> caller: i want to know exactly why did they remove one child? why didn't the state remove the second child? we've got a mother with a violent nature who injured one child. the other child is left in the home with a boyfriend who can't be around children. and then you've got a neighbor, or a tenant that runs from them

who the bloodhounds hit on the dog. i mean, this is very suspicious regarding all three of them. >> angela, let me hit on that with nate shellman again, with news radio kboi in boise there. let's clarify that. again, robert manwill, his father has custody of him. we know that. >> true. >> back to pat's point about the mom and she pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor, originally charged with a felony, basically fractured the skull of the 9-month-old. they took him because he was in imminent danger. nate, can you answer this for us, how is little robert allowed to have an unsupervised visit with his mom who has this this violent past? >> that's due to the custody agreement between the mom and robert's dad. the kid that was taken out of the mom's custody, first of all, the court records on that actually used the words accidental. did not use the term violent.

so once again, be careful, unfortunately as we've all learned on casting stones here. but she does have some history of irresponsibility, no doubt about it. >> and the only challenge i would challenge on that is, yes, maybe that's the word they used, but if it's accidental, why use the term imminent danger and the 9-month-old is taken away from her. i hear you on that. we don't want to convict anybody knowing all the details of that. but you do make a good point, nate. we expect a press conference coming out of boise within the next 10 to 20 minutes. we'll bring that to you. nate, pat, steve rogers, we appreciate your time. thanks again. now this story. this is a horrific one. house of horrors, a couple accused of making child porn videos in their own home. some of the alleged victims, as young as 2, no telling how many victims are out there. we'll get to the bottom of it.

police say a couple essentially turned their home into a child porn studio. the alleged victims rage in # range in age from 2 years old. they're accused of filming, distributing and promoting child porn. police raided the home. they found several bottles of prescription drugs, dvds labeled "private stash." police believe these might have been filmed in hotel rooms in different cities. one in atlanta. the couple appeared in some of the videos. one showing a pre-teen girl who appeared to be unconscious. neighbors say they're disgusted. have no idea what was going on next door. joining me to talk about this,

josie, a reporter for "prime news" a fif yat in baltimore. and corporal michael hill with the baltimore county police department. and dr. gail saltz joining us as well. officer hill, let me start with you. how many victims do we have here? >> well, we're not really sure at this point. we know that we have three, at a very minimum. we know we have many more just by the pictures and videos that the detectives have found during their investigation. >> okay. where are the victims from? how much knowledge do you have of the victims, and how widespread this can be, where this was being filmed and where it was being done? >> well, fortunately we were able to get some more information last night after our local media aired this story. we did receive some phone calls, and that led to some information in which we may have some itd tis of some of our victims. unfortunately, though, we don't have identities on many other ones, and we're not sure exactly where they're from. we do have a victim that we do

know is from the georgia, probably atlanta area. and we are working in partnership with the federal bureau of investigation on that. and trying to identify who that may be. >> okay. let me stay with you, mike. so how are you going to -- how do you go about this? are you showing the pictures of the accused, and then you're asking parents to say, if your children have had contact with these two? >> certainly, that's where we began. we began with the local media. they are very helpful to our agency. and with cnn now picking up the story, we can reach out a little bit further. the problem is that we don't know where these kids are from. we don't know if they're local. we don't know if they're extended family, friends of family, or if they're from other states where these two may have traveled through. >> okay. let me bring in dr. gail saltz. we talk about, this is so difficult, gail, to get a -- parents to approach their kids with this, if they think their

kid might have had contact with these two. and then how do you get a child to talk? it's so difficult here. >> this is a disastrous situation. obviously it's terribly have already been through the trauma. maybe afraid to talk about what happened to them. victims, who have been traumatized, and who aren't getting any kind of help at all, potentially because no one knows this crime was committed. so it's better that this is uncovered. you wouldn't want to force a child to talk about it, if they kont. but you would want them to be able to, to acknowledge what's happened to them. and that they need some help. >> let's bring in joseph sterman from wmar from baltimore. joseph, do we know anything more about the operation from your vantage point? how widespread it could have been? >> well, all we're hearing is what we've heard from police, just that they're not even sure how widespread it is. they know obviously there's an atlanta connection. they know some of these activities took place in their

house. we need to make it known this is not a big house, not a mansion in suburban baltimore. a row home that's small. there's another adult that lives there that claims she didn't know anything about what was going on there. they're not sure how widespread it is. that's why they're putting the pictures out there, trying to find out, does anybody know if there's a connection to these people? did they let these people baby sit? it's just shocking. >> that's the ex-wife of the accused, one of the accused, john nicholas, that's pleading is. she's claiming innocence in the whole thing. but when you see the house and the video there, we're not talking about a big place. >> much more on this story. and call in if you have comments, questions for our panel, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. it's a horrific story out of maryland. a couple arrested on child porn charges. let's go to the phones. shannon's with us in oregon. shannon, comment or question here? >> caller: yeah, how did this couple get their victims? did they have a child care set up? >> let's go to mike at the baltimore police department. how did these two allegedly get access to the kids? >> that's something we're still investigating. we don't know. they did not appear to have a child care facility or anything like that. we don't know -- some of these victims may be, as i said before, extended family. abuse. and the pornography. >> neither have children themselves, right, mike? >> that i don't know. i don't know the answer to the question. >> josie, do either of them have

children? >> yes, mr. nicholas does have a son that we know about. we do know the ex-wife, also in addition has two young sisters. >> we probably don't know, but i'll ask anyway. are any of those three victims, or possible victims here? >> we don't know for sure. we've asked the police that question, and they're investigating to find out if there's potential that people on the videos and in these images are related to these two suspects in some way. >> mike, how were you tipped off? that something was possibly horribly going wrong in this house? >> i can't go into a lot of detail how we initially got this investigation, other than to say we did receive some information there was child pornography at this residence. the detectives took their time with it. really evaluated the information that they have. began an investigation, and through that investigation were able to secure enough probable cause to get a search warrant. after they entered, that's when they found these dvds, cds,

computer equipment that had all this child pornography on it. whether pictures or videos. >> got you. josie, we talked about the ex-wife of the accused, john nicholas, living there and pleading ignorance saying she didn't know what was going on. what are friends and neighbors saying? >> neighbors were absolutely flabbergasted. a neighbor said i'm flabbergasted. they seemed like normal people, nice people. they were employed as emts. just good people in the community. they said they did see kids occasionally coming out of the house. nobody knows actually what was going on. but people were genuinely shocked that people could be capable of this. and always when we get a suspect in this, we're going to go look at their criminal backgrounds, and see is this in their history. these two, nothing on their records. >> f

i cast believe this next story. surveillance video of a mom dragging her child across the floor of a cell phone store. someone's flipping on the cell phone video, and that's what happened here, dragging around her son. like a dog on a leash. she's in some trouble here. police locked her up. she's facing a felony. we want to get your take on this one. is that a felony? i'm not sure i'm seeing a felony there, but she obviously did wrong. we'll take your calls on that later in the show, 1-877-tell-hln. we're taking your calls on this one as well. the guy with at least two other lovers, cheating on his wife, conning women for money. well, they used some krazy glue, you get the picture on that, glued his manhood to his

stomach. let's get a call in. taitia, what's your thought here? >> caller: yes. i would just like to say that was crazy. she should have took it to a court beforehand since they were married. >> it's not illegal, though. >> what's not illegal? >> it's not against the law, adultery. >> oh, okay. and that's the question. going to well, they can't assault him, and they can't falsely imprison him. although i don't think any jury is going to convict. but, you know, they can yell at him, scream at him. she can certainly get a divorce and take him to the cleaners. they can't assault him. >> gail, dr. gail saltz, i mean, women -- you've got to be pretty angry to band together like

this. is it normal for the wife to team up with the mistresses to get revenge? >> you know, that is very interesting. obviously these women were so enraged, they were willing to team up. that's how enraged they were. you know, hell hath no fury. he really set up a situation that they were willing to surmount their competition with each other to exact revenge. intervention. terrorizing him. they could have confronted him and said, look, the jig is up, buddy, we know what's going on. this is what we have to say to you. so that he couldn't have continued to do it. they, frankly, probably could have, you know, verbally done something that would have shamed him, if that was what they were looking for. and made it clear that they weren't buying his story. without having -- you know, what's sad is they did something

self-destructive. now they're in trouble. >> the one lady was basically saying she was ashamed. because obviously one minute you think you're in love with this guy, the next thing you find out he's a con artist. the next thing you're in jail facing a felony. >> so they've shamed themselves. now they have to live with the guilt for having done something every bit as much disgusting as he did. they didn't get to take the moral high ground. >> the classic case of guy. for themselves, banding together. we don't see that very often. i think they showed a lot of restraint. they didn't kill him, cause any long-term harm, they tied him down, they glued his genitals to his stomach. i think a lot of women would say they showed a lot of restraint here. >> dennis is with us from indiana. dennis, go ahead, your thoughts? >> caller: yeah. well, i completely agree with

the one woman talking right there, that two wrongs don't make a right certainly. you know, there was a premeditation. and it's wrong. i don't know if i agree with the second lady that when a man finds a woman in bed with someone, that they can come home and shoot them and get away with it. i disagree with that, too. >> lisa, we've got to run. it was premeditated. it wasn't like the surprise, like you laid out there, 9 analogy of the guy finding his wife in bed with somebody else and flips out. this is like a premeditated plan. >> that's true. but they cause the a lot less damage than some people do when they take a gun into the situation. they're trying to embarrass and humiliate him. hopefully no long-term harm. >> i think they could have done without the false imprisonment. and the krazy glue. thanks so much, ladies. i know both of you are sticking around for the next story as we change the mood a little bit. big developments in the michael jackson case. a lawyer for katherine jackson

says joe jackson will november not have a role in raising the kitsds. he will, however, visit them from time to time. katherine fights to be co-executor of her son's will. plus her lawyer says she's confused by jackson's dermatologist, dr. arnie klein, asking for a role in the kids' lives. then she drops this bombshell. says dr. arnold klein is not the legal father, but doesn't exactly deny the possibility of him being the biological father. that was the bombshell in court yesterday. let's face it. joining us to talk about this, let's bring in car os diaz, correspondent for "extra." and again, lisa bloom, and dr. gail saltz with us again. she wrote the book "the ripple effect." all right. carlos, let me start with you about dr. arnie klein's lawyers with a say-so in education, medical welfare made for the kids. what was the reaction in court when this happened? that was the curveball in court yesterday for sure. >> that was the curveball. if you ask me, i mean, dr.

arnold klein respectively shut up. seriously, be quiet. respectfully. either come with a dna test, you know, say why you want to be a part of this, stop granting interviews, and being ambiguous about it. stop saying, i gave sperm, i don't know if i'm the sperm donor. stop being so vague. either you're a part of this or you're not a part of this. but be in or be out. that's the thing that amazed me yesterday and the judge looked at arnie klein's lawyer and said, well, what tie does he have to this? is there any legal tie at all? his lawyer said no. he's like, we're moving on, you're out of here. he had so many things to deal with, he didn't want to deal with that. >> real quick, we touched on it a moment ago. this is katherine jackson's attorney, on larry king last night talking about the surprise factor of dr. klein's lawyers jumping in yesterday. let's listen to what he had to say. >> larry: so is arnold there

saying he would like to be the father? i'm reading between the lines. what is he saying? >> it's hard to read between the lines, but i can tell you what he expressly said, that michael jackson was a great father. and they loved each other. >> larry: the question is, is he a father? >> he's not the legal father. he doesn't have any standing. i have no idea whether he's the biological father. >> larry: could he prove that in a dna test? >> could it be proved, yes? but the court is not going to him to ask for it. there's conclusive presumption that michael jackson is the children's father. >> let's bring in lisa bloom on this. what do we do with this? is the next step the dna test? is this a done deal? what's next for dr. klein? >> she's right, there is a conclusive presumption here in california, the children born of a marriage between a husband and wife who are co-hab i tating are conclusively presumed to be of that marriage. however, there are exceptions. one of the exceptions is if the putative biological father comes forward like dr. klein and says

i'm the dad, he could go to court and ask for a dna or blood test. i think what we forget about here is these children. most children at some point want to know who their mother and their father is. and we can all say dr. klein should take a step back and be raised by their grandmother. if they haven't already, at some point i'm sure they're going to want to know who their parents are. i think a dna test would make sense, if not now, at some point in the future so that issue can be resolved for them. >> carlos, let me get gail in on this one, when we talk about, gail, don't we have to be careful of all the different people we might introduce into these kids' lives and when? you've got debbie rowe, klein maybe. what do we do with this? >> look, these kids have just been through a terrible trauma. to them they lost the only parent they knew. lisa is absolutely right, one day they will want to know who their biological parents are. but today is not that day. take your cue from the kids right now. they need stability and what they don't need is a circus of,

maybe it's him, maybe it's him. who is my mother? they don't need that right now. they really need stability and they've got a plan. the plan is they're going to be with family they know, with the visitations that are publicly understood, with the biological mother and that is enough. when they are older, before they're saying i really want this information. we should all wait. >> carlos, i promise, i'll get you back in on this one. we'll get carlos in on that. also talking about joe jackson, what if any involvement will he have with the kids.

we'll continue our conversation. the latest with michael jackson. again, we're all thrown by the curveball in court yesterday. custody decided. katherine jackson, michael's mom, is going to get custody. kids. his dermatologist, dr. arnl klein's lawyer, wants dr. klein to have a say-so in the kids' life, talking about their education, welfare. carlos diaz is with us, correspondent "extra." carlos, you wanted to rebut what lisa had to say. go ahead. >> i respect lisa in every single way. and i know that she's talking about this from a legal standpoint. but i'm talking about it from a kids' standpoint. you look at these three kids, this point was just made. i want to make it again, you know, when arnold klein keeps coming forward and, you know, is

kind of -- it makes people wonder whether he's the father or not. these kids are old enough to understand that. if they're growing up, already having lost their father, the father that they looked up to, having lost him, to see somebody who's in court, saying he wants a say, but he doesn't really have a standing. it makes them wonder. that's cruelty to these children. >> you wonder what they are, how much of this information the kids are getting. you make a good point. they're ages 12, 11 and 7. let's get a call in. >> can i just jump in for one quick second? isn't the problem, though, bringing kids into the world and not being honest with them about what their situation is. i certainly have great respect for people who adopt children or who use surrogates or sperm donors. but when it's age appropriate, shouldn't children be entitled to the truth about where they came from? i think children being kept in the dark -- >> he didn't plan on dying when they were 12, 11 and 7.

>> but he represented himself as the biological father all along. >> i think we can agree, that's a point gail made, you hit it, age appropriate, lisa, i think is the key. right now i think you've got to question the timing since their dad just died within weeks. >> of course. >> let's talk about joe jackson. carlos, help us out here. did he sign some kind of agreement that he'll visit occasionally and that's about the extent of his involvement with the kids? >> joe jackson's involvement with the family is minuscule. he lives in las vegas. he does not live in encino with the rest of the family. he comes and goes. he has agreed that he will not be a major part of the kids' lives. so you're not going to see the jackson three out there as was rumored before. which is a good thing. you know, katherine can focus on being a grandmother and motherly figure to these three kids, and joe jackson stays in vegas. >> we've got to leave it there. lisa and gail are going to stick around for the next story. carlos, we thank you. check out this video. a woman seen dragging her kid,

we believe he was being a little unruly, but regardless, she's dragging her kid on a leash through a cell phone store. obviously someone with a cell phone video fired up and here we go. she gets charged with a felony. want your thoughts on this one, 1-877-tell-hln.

we're back with this story we told you about earlier. a kid flat on the ground in a store, the mom dragging him around by the backpack leash. there's mom. the video we saw lasts about 20 seconds, pulling him through the verizon wireless store in georgia. mom's name, melissa smith, she's 37. arrested, thrown in jail. charged with felony first-degree cruelty. mom messed up here. clearly lost it as a parent. not what you want to do.

but is it a felony? dive in, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. we want to hear from you. back with us, cnn legal analyst, lisa bloom, and dr. gail saltz. lisa, from what we gather here, kid threw a tantrum. you know kids, probably went limp on her here so she decides to drag him. bad move by mom. but are you seeing a felony here, lisa? >> you know, i really need to know more facts in this case. it certainly looks awful when we look at that video. especially because it appears to me that the collar and the leash are around the child's neck. but the child isn't fighting. the child doesn't appear to be in any pain. i can remember when my daughter was little, what she thought was a good time is to clamp on my ankle and i would drag her around the living room and she thought that was better than disneyland. i need to know if there's clear mental or physical harm. i need to know more about the circumstances before i can tell you if i think is a really a felony or not. >> i agree with you, lisa. we know that he did have some marks on his neck from that dragging. >> okay. >> when you talk about how

injured he was out of this. one-time shot where he throws a tantrum. to say that i am re pulsed by this video. i don't understand, okay, i respect lisa bloom. i agree with you as well, we need to get more facts. but if she'll act that way in public, can you imagine -- i mean, dragging your child -- i'm sure people are baffled by -- i'm watching it again. anyway, so she should not, a, have been allowed to leave with that child. i'm sorry, i'm very passionate. but if you do it in public, and the child's not fighting, it makes me wonder what she's doing behind closed doors. >> gail, that is a question, when you see this in public, you've got to wonder what happens behind closed doors.

>> i think that's a very fair are more that's not everyone. and if they're doing something a person who has a certain attitude, let's say, about discipline which is you know, not a good one. >> right. >> it doesn't teach your child anything. it humiliates your child. it harms your child and it just teaches them violence. so i would be concerned about this person in private. >> what are the odds this is a mom who lost it, had the unruly tantrum child and didn't know how to handle it and obviously she was wrong? >> people who have a short fuse tend to lose it more than once. i'm not saying there isn't a person that just loses that one time in the store. more often than not, that's not the case. this person has a short fuse who's struggling or overhemmed

with their child and is probably losing it more than once. >> a call in real quick. judy is with us in florida. your thoughts on this? >> caller: i've seen a lot of people use those leashes on their kids but never drag the kid around like that. i don't understand why she didn't pick him up. she dragged him out of the store but does it continue outside the store on the cement? >> yeah. >> caller: i'm glad it wasn't around his neck. that kid would have been dead. >> that's a good point. >> that is a good point. again, lisa and i made the point we'd like a few more facts on this matter. if she did lose tbs you can see picking him trying to restore order here. >> absolutely. >> basically this is the length of the store she's dragging him up to the counter. we'll take a quick break and take more of your calls coming up, 1-877-tell-hln.

breaking news. a boy's body found in a canal has been tentatively identified as robert manwill. the -year-old disappeared nearly two weeks ago and now this devastating news. this hour, we await a news conference. do police know what happened to little robert? a revolting crime, a couple accused of making child important videos in their own home. some victims were as young as 2 years old. this hour the suspects sit behind bars. cops search for more victims. "prime news" starts right now. controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." >> welcome to hour number two of

"prime news." i'm mike galanos. back to our breaking story, a little boy's body found in an irrigation canal has tentatively been identified as -year-old robert manwill. a short time ago, an the coroner's office broke the news. a positive i.d. won't be made till they get the dental records and compare findings. the body was found about five miles from robert's mother's apartment. we have a press conference going on right now. let's go to boise. >> is that of 8-year-old robert manwill. preliminary autopsy results are still being evaluated. we are all still awaiteding positive identification of the body that the coroner's office says must come from comparing dental records, a process that is still underway. finding robert will not be the end, but just the beginning of an entirely new investigation. our priority remains finding answers for robert's family, and this community. robert was reported missing more

than 11 days ago. some are demanding immediate answers. we understand and we appreciate the community's intense interest in this case and the compassion that so many of us feel for a lost child. for robert's sake and the sake of his family, the answers we provide must reflect the answers that can only come from a thorough investigation. that investigation is still very much underway. we caution those who would speculate who spread rumors or second-guess what's happening behind the scenes. our system of justice demands that we focus on evidence. our investigative experience tells us that we cannot jump to conclusions. the police investigation into robert's disappearance continues and is very active. robert's family remains in close contact with the boise police.

they are being kept infortunatelied of the developments the case is taking and they have asked that you please respect their privacy during this difficult time. we ask that you continue to keep robert, his family, and the dedicated investigators in your thoughts. they very much appreciate your support. we'll provide further information as it becomes available. thank you. >>. >> there's a press conference from boyce i, idaho. the detective taking no questions as he again laid out what we had told you, that a preliminary identification has been made, body found in that irrigation canal is that of 8-year-old robert manwill. and positive identification will be concluded after dental records are compared and they go through that process. it is a sad update to bring you as we've been following this story since pretty much he went missing a few days after july 24th. so we'll take your calls on this

comments, questions, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. joining us to talk about it, steve rogers, former member of the fbi joint terrorism task force, also a detective lieutenant in the nutley police department, pat brown, criminal profiler. steve, we just heard the officer saying this is now beginning of a new investigation. where do you begin as an investigator on this one? >> well, the boise police department is conducting an excellent investigation. they're being very med olcal and careful what they're saying. this may very well turn into a homicide investigation. they're going to begin at ground zero at the home of the victim and spread out into the community. >> pat, what are you seeing here? brack to ground zero, back to the last place he was seen, last people to see him, and that's what, it is the home of his mom and her live-in boyfriend, right? >> exactly, mike. but the police are being very, very cautious and for good reason. we do hear that the mom has a little bit of a violent history

since she injured his brother and the brother is now in foster care. that was from blunt force trauma. we know that the boyfriend has a criminal record and is pretty squirrely character and not supposed to be around any females, young females. we already know there's a problem in the home. what they have to be careful of is this. suppose there was an argument that broke out between the mother and the season and she got angry and threw things around the home and even hit him on the arm and he got angry and ran out the front door and somebody else grabbed him after the fact. they have to be really careful. they have to before they jump to any con clueses like they're saying, that's who's involved, they're not going to go there till they have the evidence that says these people are involved or surprising enough, these people aren't involved but somebody else was. >> you make a good point. those are the facts of the case we it so far. certainly we'll ask questions about his family and the background of his mom and her live-in boyfriend. we've done that and continue to do so. we don't want to convict

anybody. that's not what we're doing here. mike shaw, reporter news radio in boise. what can you tell us about the investigation, where authorities are looking as we speak? >> well, authorities have been looking for the last week, i mean, he disappeared july 24th. authorities began going through this process. i think it was about a week ago, they held a press conference that said as they put it, he may have been the victim of tragic circumstances which suggested there may have been foul play. that's when they began searching homes and at this point, the press has been held pretty much at bay. we're getting the information about as quick as you guys are about two hours ago, facts went around to the boise media that said pretty much exactly what deputy chief jim kerns did just let us know, which is the fact that they did identify the body at least tentatively identified the body as the boy. >> the quote you're mentioning here, steve rogers, steve, after

mom's apartment was searched, the call from authorities robert may be injured, the victim of a tragic event. we believe that's after some evidence was collected. what are you seeing there as an investigator, steve? >> they may have found traces of blood evidence. they may have learned something through dna, hair fibers, footprints. this is what you look for, the things not necessarily very visible to the naked eye and that's what they probably have on hand right now. >> okay. and steve, let me stay with you. the other point is that bloodhounds catch a scent at a rental home, home of a gentleman by the name of evan wallace. his suburban also bloodhounds also caught a scent there. what are you seeing there, steve? >> i've worked a recent case regarding blood hounds. they could take a scent up to a week, week and a half sometimes. it's possible the child could have been in that area up to a week ago. >> what are authorities saying about that, mike, rental home,

evan wallace's suburban in that situation? >> like i said, they're remaining very tight-lipped. it's been very clear that boise police have done this investigation very thoroughly and making sure the media knows that at this point but not releasing pretty much anything. i think this may be the first investigation i've seen especially in this area where they've been so close to the chest about every detail they're releasing because this is a little boy and this is, you know, and really is, the boise people and the public here have really unites behind this case. >> okay. mike sharp, steve rogers, pat brown, we appreciate it. we're going to continue to follow this sad story. looks like robert manwill is dead. house of horrors, couple accused of making child porn videos in their own home. some of the alleged victims as young as 2, and authorities right now, they want to find out, are there other victims out there. >> we'll get you updated on that one. stay with us.

welcome back. this is heinous. police say a couple essentially

turned their home into a child porn studio. the victims range in age from 2 to 13 years old. john nicklas and shanon honea were arrested thursday in middle river, maryland accused of distributing and promoting child porn. police found several bottles of prescription drugs, dvds labeled private stash. investigators believe some of these might have been filmed in hotel rooms in different cities, one titles "fun in atlanta." detectives say the couple appeared in some of the videos with one a preteen girl who appeared to be unconscious. neighbors had no idea what was going on next door. joining me a reporter for "prime news" affiliate wmar in baltimore and corporal michael hill with the baltimore county police department. dr. gail saltz psychiatrist, author of the book "the ripple effect." officer hill, let me start with you. how many victims do we have here? >> well, we're not really sure at this point. we know that we have three at a

very minimum. we know we have many more just by the pictures and the videos that the detectives have found during their investigation. >> okay. and where are the victims from? how much knowledge did he have of the victims and how widespread this is where this was being filmed and where it was being done? >> fortunately, we were able to get more information last night after our local media air this had story. we did receive some phone calls and that led to some information in which we may have some identities of some of our victims. unfortunately, though, we don't have identities on many other ones. we're not sure exactly where they're from. we do have a victim that we know was from the georgia probably atlanta area. and we are working in partnership with the federal bureau of investigation on that and trying to identify who that may be. >> okay. let me stay with you, mike. so how are you going to -- how do you go about this? do you show them the pictures of

the accused and asking parents to say, have your children had contact with these two? is that where you begin? >> certainly. we began with the local media. they are very helpful to our agency. and now with cnn picking up the story, we can reach out even a little bit further. the problem is, that we don't know where these kids are from. we don't know if they're local or if their extended family, if they're friends of family or from other states where these two may have traveled through. >> okay. let me bring in dr. gail saltz. when we talk about this is so difficult, gail, to get a parents to approach their kids with this if they think their kid might have had contact with these two and how do you get a child to talk. so difficult here. >> this is a disaster truss situation. traumatic. talk about what right now, there are kids out

there, victims who have been traumatized and aren't getting any kind of help at all potentially because no one knows this crime was committed. it's better that this is uncovered. you wouldn't want to force a child to talk about it if they don't but you would want them to acknowledge what happens to them and that they need some help. >> let's bring in wmar in baltimore, jesse is it yourman. do we know anything more about the operation from your vantage point, how widespread it could have been. >> all we're hearing is that they're not even sure how widespread it is. there's an atlanta connection. they know some of this activity took place in their house and you know, we need to make it known this is not a big house. we're not talking about a mansion but a row home that's small. the family lives there. there's another adult that lives there that claims she didn't know anything about what was going on there. so they're not sure how widespread it is. that's why they're putting the

pictures out does anybody know if there's a connection to these people, did they let these people baby-sit. it's shocking. >> yes. that's the ex-wife of the one of ignorance on this. >> she lives with the couple. saying she doesn't know exactly what was going on, but when you see the house on the video, we're not talking about a big place. >> let's take a quick break. much more on this story. call in if you have comments, questions for our panel. 1-877-tell-hln is the number.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. it's a horrific story out of maryland. a couple arrested on child porn charges. let's go to the phones. shanon is with us from oregon. comment, question here? >> caller: yeah, how did this couple get their victims? did they have a child care set up? >> let's go to corporal mike hill, baltimore county police department. mike, how did these two allegedly get access to the kids? >> that's something that we're still investigating. we don't know. they did not appear to have a child care facility or anything like that. we don't know, some of these victims may be, as i said before, extended family. to the abuse and the pornography. >> neither have children themselves, right, mike? >> that i don't know. >> josie, do either of them have children. >> mr. nicolas actually has a

son we know about and we were told by the ex-wife, our reporter found out last night he also in addition has two young sisters. >> any -- we probably don't know but i'll ask anyway, are any of those three possible victims here? >> we don't know for sure. all we've been told is what corporal hill told you. we're investigating the potential the people on these images are related in some way. >> mike, how were you tipped off that we had something horribly wrong possibly going on at this house? >> i can't go into a lot of detail how we got the investigation other than to say we did receive some information that was child pornography at this residence. the detectives took their time with it. really evaluated the information that they have, began an investigation and through that investigation were able to secure enough probable cause to get a search warrant. after they entered that's when they found these dvds, cds,

computer equipment that had all this child pornography on it, whether pictures or in videos. >> got you. josie, we talked about the ex-wife of the accused john nicklas pleading ignorance saying she didn't know what was going on. what about neighbors, friends, what are they saying. >> neighbors were flabbergasted. one told me i'm flabbergasted. these seemed like nice people. they were employed at emts, good people in the community. they did tell us they did see kids coming in and out of house. when we asked people, they were genuinely shocked these two people could be capable of this. our first step always when we get a spector in a story like this, we'll look at their criminal boundaries and see is there in the history. these two, not a thing on their record. >> we're going to leave it there. much more coming up. stay with us.

i can't believe in next story. surveillance video of a mom dragging her child across the floor at a cell phone store. number one, you're going to do that at a cell phone store, someone's flipping on the cell phone video. that's what happened here. dragging around her son like a dog on a leash. well, she's in some trouble here. police locked her up. she's facing a felony. we want to get your take on this one. is that a felony? i'm not sure i'm seeing a felony there. she obviously did wrong. take your calls later on that 1-877-tell-hln. we're taking your calls on this one, the guy with at least two other lovers cheating on his wife, they used some krazy glue. you get the picture on that, glued his manhood to his

stomach. let's get a call in. taisha is with us from north carolina. what's your thoughts? >> caller: yes, i would just like to say that was crazy. i mean, they should have took it to court. she should have took it to court beforehand since they were married. >> it's not illegal though. >> it is not illegal. >> what isn't illegal, lisa? >> it's not against the law adultery. >> okay. that's a question. legal? >> they can't assault him and can't falsely imprison him although i don't think any jury is going to convict. but you know, they can yell at him, they can scream at him. she can certainly get a divorce and take him to the cleaners. >> you know what they should. >> they can't assault him. >> dr. gail saltz is with us. gail, you got to be pretty angry to band together like this. is it normal for the wife to

team up with the mistresses to get revenge? >> you know, that is very interesting. obviously these women were so enranled, they were willing to team up. that's how enraged they were. you know, hell hath no fury. you know, he really he set up a situation that they were willing to surmount their competition intervention. rising him. they could have confronted him and said look, the jig sup, buddy. we know what's going on. this is what we have to say to you so that he couldn't have continued to do it. and they frankly probably could have, you know, verbally done something that would have shamed him if that was what they were looking for. and made it clear that they weren't buying his story without having, you know, what's sad is they did something

self-destructive and they're now in trouble. >> the one lady was basically saying she was ashamed because obviously, one minute you think you're in love with this guy, next thing you find out he's this con artist and the next thing you're in jail facing a felony. >> so they've shamed themselves. now they have to live with the guilt of having done something every bit as much disgusting as he did. they didn't take the moral high ground. >> lisa, real quick. convicted of murder for that. in this case, women are banding together. we don't see that very often. i think they showed restraint. they didn't kill him or cause long-term harm. they tied him down is, glued his genitals to his stomach. a lot of women who say they show a lot of restraint here. >> dennis is with us from indiana. your thoughts? >> caller: yeah, well, i completely agree with the one

woman talking right there that two wrongs don't make a right certainly. i -- you know, this is premeditated and it's wrong. i don't know if i agree with the second lady that says when a man finds a woman in bed with someone that they can come home and shoot them and get away with that. i disagree with that. >> >> real quick on that too, lisa. it was pre-med dated. it wasn't the analogy of the guy finding his wife in bed with somebody else and flips out. this is a premeditated plan. >> that's true but it causeded a lot less damage. they're trying to embarrass him, hopefully no long-term harm. >> i think they could have done that without the false imprisonment and the krazy glue. anyway, a spirited discussion. thanks so much. i know you both are sticking around for this next story. big developments in the michael jackson case. a few surprises, as well. a lawyer for katherine jackson

says joe jackson will not have a role in raising the kids. he will, however, visit them from time to time. meanwhile, katherine continues to fight to be coexecutor of her son's will and her lawyer says she's confused by jackson's dermatologist dr. arnie klein asking for a role in the kids' lives and drops this bombshell. says dr. arnold klein is not the legal father but doesn't exactly deny the possibility of him being the biological father. but that was the bombshell in court yesterday. let's face it. joining us to talk about this, let's bring in carlos diaz for extra" and lisa bloom, sister network cnn and dr. gail saltz wrote the book "the ripple effect." carlos, let me started with you about about dr. klein's lawyers requesting some say so with education, their welfare, medical decisions made for the kids. what was the reaction in koirt when this happened? that was the curveball in court yesterday for sure. >> that was the curveball. and if you ask me, i mean,

dr. arnold klein respectively shut up. all right? seriously, be quiet. either come with a dna test, you know, say why you want to be a part of this, stop granting interviews and being ambiguous about it. stop saying i gave sperm. i don't know if i'm the sperm donor. stop being so vague. either you're a part of this or you're not a part of this, but be in or be out. that's the thing that amazed me yesterday, looked at klein's lawyer and said what tie does he have to this and his lawyer said no. he said we're moving on because he had so many things to deal with, he didn't want to deal with that. >> we touched on if a moment ago. this is katherine jackson's londell mcmillan on larry king last night talking about the surprise factor of dr. klein's lawyers jumping in yesterday. listen to what he had to say. >> so is arnold saying he would

like to be the father, reading between the lines? what is he saying? >> it's hard to read between the lines but i can tell you what he said that, michael jackson was a great father and that they loved each other. >> the question was, is he the father? he didn't say no, he didn't say yes. >> he's not the legal father. he doesn't have any standing. i have no idea whether he's the biological father. >> coproblem that in a dna test. >> yes, but this court's not going to order it and there's no standing for him to ask for it. there is conclusive presumption that michael jackson is the kiran's father. >> okay. let's bring in lisa bloom on this. what do we do with in? is the next step the dna test? what's next for dr. klein? >> well, she's right. there is a conclusive presumption here in california that children born of a marriage between a husband and wife who are cohabitating are presumed to be the children of that marriage. however, there are exceptions. one of the exceptions is if the punitive biological father comes forward like dr. klein and says i am the dad, if he chose-to-do

that, he could go to court and ask for dna or a blood test. we forget about these children. most children at some point want to know who their mother and their father is. and we south carolina all say dr. klein should take a step back and they should be raised by their grandmother. i'm sure at some point they're going to want to know who their parents are. and i think they're entitled to know that. i think a dna test would make sense at some point in the future so thereby can be resolved for them. >> carlos, let me get gail in on this one. gail, don't we have to be careful of all the different people we might introduce into these kids' lives and when? you've got debbie rowe, klein maybe. >> these kids have just been through a terrible trauma. they've lost the only parent they knew and lisa is absolutely right. one day they will want to know who their biological parents are, but today is not that day. you ought to take your cue from the kids. right now they need stability and don't need a circus of maybe

it's him, maybe it's him. who is my mother? they don't need that right now. they really need stability and they've got a plan and the plan is they're going to be with family they know with visitations from the publicly understood biological mother and that's enough. so until they are of an age which probably is not now, frankly, they'll be older before they're saying no, i really want this information, we should all wait. >> the carlos, i promise i'll get you back in on this one. i know you want to rebut what lisa had to say and talk about joe jackson, what if any involvement will he have with the kids and we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news." we'll continue our conversation latest with michael jackson. again, we're all thrown by the curveball in court yesterday. custody decided. katherine jackson, michael's mom gets custody of the kids but his dermatologist, dr. arnold klein's lawyer wants him to have some kind of say so in the kids' lives talking about their education, welfare. carlos diaz is with us. you wanted to rebut what lisa had to say. go ahead. >> no, and i respect lisa in every single way. i know she's talking about this from a legal standpoint. i'm talking about it from a kids' stands point. you look at these three kids and the point was just made but i want to make it again. when rarnltd klein keeps coming forward and you know, is kind of

makes people wonder whether he's the father, these kids are old enough to understand that and if they're growing up already having lost their father, the father that they looked up to, having lost him to see somebody who's in court saying he wants a say but he doesn't really have a standing, it makes them wonder. that's cruelty to these children. >> you wonder how much of this information the kids are getting. you make a good point, they're ages 12, 11, and 7 and do understand if it's coming their way. >> i say something? isn't the problem though bringing kids into the world and not being honest with them about what their situation is? i certainly have great respect for people who adopt children or use surrogates or sperm donors. when it's age appropriate, shouldn't children be entitled to the truth where they came from? >> i'm sure michael was going to give them that truth one day but didn't plan on dieing. >> i don't know that. he represented himself as the

biological father all along. >> i want to move onto the joe jackson side of things. i think we can recall agree, age appropriate i think is the key. right now, i think you've got a question of timing since their dad died within weeks. >> of course >> let's talk about joe jackson. carlos, help us out here. did he sign some kind of agreement that he'll visit occasionally and that's about the extent of his involvement with the kids? >> joe jackson's involvement with the family is mine skul. he lives in las vegas, not encino with the rest of the family. he comes and goes. he has agreed he will not be a major part of the kids' lives. so you're not going to see the jackson three out there as was rumored before which is a good thing. katherine can focus on being a grandmother and a motherly figure to these three kids if joe stays in vegas. >> we've got to leave it there. next, lisa and gail are going to stick around for this next story. here it is. check out this video. a woman seen dragging her kids, we believe he was being a little

unruly. regardless, she's dragging him on a leash through a cell phone store. obviously, someone with a cell phone video fired it up and here we go. she gets charged with a felony. want your thoughts on this one, 1-877-tell-hln. dive in.

>> we received words from the ada county coroner's office that a tentative identification has been made of the body found in the new york canal yesterday as that of 8-year-old robert manwill. preliminary autopsy results are still being evaluated. we are also still awaiting positive identification of the body that the coroner's office says must come from comparing dental records, a process that is still underway. >> again, that was the sad update we had for you, boise police moments ago confirming

the worst. a boy's body found in a canal is likely that of robert manwill. the 8-year-old disappeared july 24th while visiting his mom. so many questions. what happened to little robert? i want to bring in my colleague, jane velez-mitchell host of "issues" with jane velez-mitchell coming your way in about 12 minutes. this is one you and i followed. it is sad to report this now. when we start looking for answers what happened to him, we have to go back to ground zero where he was last seen. he was staying with his mom and her live-in boyfriend. we know there's an entry point into that canal about a half mile from her home. >> first i want to say that this is a horrific tragedy, and we can't just, i certainly can't just cover it as, oh, another dead child. i mean, it's gut-wrenching. you know, mike, as we cover these cases we become emotionally involved. we're human beings too, and it seems all too often we are talking about a child who disappears and turns up dead,

and it's something's got to be done. we've got to look at some underlying causes, not just the specifics of why any one particular child's eyes dies. but the underlying causes of what is causing this trends, if you will, of these beautiful, innocent young children who have done absolutely nothing wrong and are beacons of innocence to end up like this. it's just revolting and it just breaks my heart and i think something is wrong. a bigger something than just the particulars of any one case. >> you make a good point there, jane. i was speaking with some of my colleagues here and before, and you know the difference. i mean, you have that moment when you hear this and your heart sinks and there's a sadness and if you let yourself go, you could probably shed a couple of tears. we know we could for some of these stories. before we get into the question and answer mode of what is going on here and i think you really hit on something, the larger issue, and it happens far too

often. these stories would happen once in a blue moon. since you and i have been working together, how many have we covered alone? >> too many. >> the numbers are staggering. i think at some -- that's where it cuts both ways. part of it is we don't want to let ourselves go to that place to really stop and realize what's going on here. and how truly tragic this is and how something is really wrong. >> we have lurched from one case to another. >> yeah. >> we wrap up one case or it becomes a cold case because it's just unsolved. and then another one pops up. i think it really is time for us as a society to say, let's figure out what the commonalities here are. what are the common elements? what are the things that are the same in all of these cases? and look at those issues and really try to, as a society, get a grip on how we can prevent those troubling factors from coming into play again. what can we do as a society?

you know, we talk a lot about kids having kids, about people who are very troubled having kids, people who have troubled boyfriends having kids, and i'm not making any references to any case in particular. but those are some of the commonalities that i've noticed. >> yeah. exactly. jane, let's get a call in real quick. florence, go ahead. >> caller: first i want to say our prayers are will robert and his family. >> yeah. >> caller: i do agree with your previous callers. robert should have been watched closer. if it was an accident, which you haven't really talked about, maybe he went down to play at the canal. maybe he fell over. but if he had been watched by his parents the right way, it might have been avoided. i agree with miss velez. >> jane is hitting on parental superv supervision. jane, we've got to run. "issues" coming up at the top of the hour. i'll clean the pool if you clean the windows.

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