tv Nancy Grace HLN August 8, 2009 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
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breaking news tonight. busy downtown shoppers stopped in their tracks when a young mom spotted dragging, repeat, dragging, her little boy by the neck. on a leash across the floor. look at this. the boy is being dragged like a dog. the child is down on the floor in a prone position. it is disgusting. here is what is even worse. nobody stopped her. she dragged him the length of the store and then some. if she does this in the verizon store in front of stunned
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shoppers what will she do at home behind closed doors which is exactly where she is tonight. back in the home with the child. at home? hey. police? have you ever heard the theory of lock the door and throw away the key? mommy needs to go to the big house. the big dollhouse. >> shocking video out of georgia shows a mother dragging her child by a leash through the store, and she claims he liked it. the disturbing video was discovered after investigators arrested the mother, charging her with first-degree cruelty to a child, punishable by up to 20 years behind bars. 37-year-old mom melissa means told cops she suffers from lupus and pneumonia and couldn't pick up her son who refused to walk. that's when she proceeded to drag the young boy across the floor. department of family and children's services were notified. the boy was later released to his grandmother.
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and breaking news tonight. idaho. the desperate search for a little 8-year-old boy ends tonight. as we go to air, it is confirmed. the body of a little boy discovered floating in a local canal is that of 8-year-old robert manwill. the little boy reported missing from his mother's apartment complex, seemingly vanishing into thin air. and in another major break, new information from a 7-year-old little girl is set to blow this case wide open. the investigation shifting gears as new details emerge tonight. and where? where's the mommy and the live-in when the little boy goes missing? >> the last hours of little robert manwill's life, the little 8-year-old found dead in an irrigation canal. a little girl, 7 years old, said she was playing outside with robert manwill the night he disappeared on july 24. she was on a green swing. he was on a red one.
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how do we get from that to finding one of these little kids dead? >> the tentative identification has been made of the body found in the new york canal as that of 8-year-old robert manwill. >> the coroner trying to determine the cause of death. again, he vanished on the 24th of july under what police call suspicious circumstances. >> investigators from the boise police department with the assistance of the fbi have located evidence that may, may bring us closer to finding out what happened. the evidence we've uncovered shows that there are suspicious circumstances regarding robert's disappearance. >> detectives say finding the body is the beginning of a brand new investigation. >> our system of justice demands that we focus on evidence. our investigative experience tells us that we cannot jump to conclusions. the police investigation into robert's disappearance continues and is very active.
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our priority remains finding answers for robert's family and this community. also, the mystery surrounding the sudden death of music icon michael jackson intensifies. questions still mount as to his sudden death and $500 million empire. after murder charges leveled in the death of jackson, his family publicly claiming he was murdered, multiple search warrants in vegas and houston. police seizing cell phone and computer hard drive images, vials of drugs, fed ex receipts, e-mails, a rolodex, scores of documents, all from jackson's private live-in doctor. numerous prescription drugs seized from jackson's home and records from multiple doctors connected to the superstar now under subpoena. but after 41 days, 41 days and nights, jackson's body still on ice. no burial in sight. why? and why?
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why have there been no charges lodged against those well-heeled doctors, the pharmacies, the suppliers, and the entourage that doped up an addict until he died in front of his children with blood allegedly on their hands? where is lady justice? breaking news out of los angeles from the court. a judge has granted michael jackson's mother, katherine, custody of his three children. >> there is another hearing, a status hearing, set for october. but at this moment she's going to have permanent custody. >> it was the singer's wish that michael jr., paris and blanket live with his mother. but what about debbie rowe? >> debbie rowe will get visitation as recommended by a psychologist. there will be no financial payments made to rowe except for
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the continuation of spousal support payments. >> but before all that was made official, major drama in the courtroom. >> dr. arnold klein's lawyer stepped up at the very beginning of the hearing and said that dr. klein wanted to have a role in the children's lives. and the judge said, on what basis? they went to a side bar, explained themselves, and went back and the judge said no. >> this came out of nowhere and was all so bizarre because of all the talk out there that dr. klein may actually be the biological father of these kids. >> there's still a lot of animosity there and we probably haven't heard the last of that dispute. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. busy downtown shoppers stopped in their tracks when a young mother spotted dragging, repeat dragging, her little boy. he's no bigger than three feet tall. by his neck on a leash across the floor. now, she'll do this in a verizon store in front of stunned shoppers, what do you think she does at home behind closed doors?
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>> a georgia mother faces up to 20 years in jail after disturbing video captures her dragging her young son across the store by a leash. the mother, 37-year-old melissa means, is charged with first-degree cruelty to children. video captures the boy being pulled against his will across the floor of the store. while mom claims her son actually liked being pulled by the leash. mom also cites multiple illnesses, includes lupus and pneumonia, saying she couldn't physically pick up the boy if she wanted to. police say the child had a bruise on the left side of his neck from the leash. he was later released to his grandmother. >> straight out to eric jens with wrga news radio. eric. this is highly disturbing. it's my understanding that when someone finally called police after all the people in the store just watched her drag the kid around on the floor, nobody stopped her. insane.
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when police finally got there, she tried to say she had pneumonia and lupus? >> yes. thank you, nancy. you have to wonder from the public standpoint if there wasn't some level of shock going on, the reason that people didn't call police any sooner. obviously it's not acceptable to be dragging a child through the store like that, unchecked -- not really even turning around -- >> but, but -- >> go ahead. >> stop. put jens up. it's not unacceptable. many people in the crime and justice community, mr. jens, would call this a felony. but please go ahead. >> it is, in fact, a charge of first degree child cruelty which is, as you said, a felony. however, that's mostly due to the fact that it was an intentional act and that there was some physical damage to the child, although it was not the kind of injury that required any kind of treatment or hospitalization, and from witnesses since the act, there appeared to be no long-term damage to the child. >> really. no long-term damage to the child being dragged through a store by
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a leash around the neck on the floor as he lie supine, prone, in a lying position, clutching at his neck. we are taking your calls live. out to rachel in illinois. hi, rachel. >> caller: hi, nancy. we love you. thanks for taking my call. >> thank you for calling in, dear. what's your question? >> caller: is he the only child? are there more children in the house? is there any abuse named before or is this the only time that we know of? >> all good questions. my immediate question was, if she's so sick, how does she drag him around the store that way? and, you know, i've had lucy and john david both when they don't want to be picked up, they kind of go limp, and they'll sit down. they don't care if they're in the middle of a store, at a burger king, or out in a parking lot. they don't care. dragging them by the neck on a leash has never really been an a option. i want to go out to dr. william
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morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of madison heights, michigan. dr. morrone, it's great to see you again. >> thank you. >> doctor, what can you tell me? if this woman can drag her child by the neck on a leash like a dog, how does she not have the energy to pick it up, and how would lupus affect this? >> your caller makes a really good point. an acute exacerbation of lupus and an acute exacerbation of pneumonia, she would be lying down at home in bed. it takes a lot of strength to drag somebody. in a lupus flare, somebody will have muscle aches and they'll have weakness. but she's tooling. she's really hauling. >> look at this, the child lying there getting dragged by his neck. matt zarintra matt, what can you tell me? are there other children and have there been any department of child and family service reports before? >> as far as we know, there were no previous reports. however, dfcs was notified. the child was put in the care and custody of the grandmother
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for now until the mother was released and later brought back to custody of the mother. >> isn't it true that the mother is back in the home tonight with the little boy? >> yes. she says i guess bad things happen to good people. everybody quickly, are you guilty of being our show's number one fan? plead your case. send us your story as to why that fan is you. we're looking for standout stories and if your e-mail or i-report makes air, you own an autographed copy of my new book "the eleventh victim" and a chance to fly to new york and come to the show live right here on the set. everybody get busy with your video cams and e-mails.
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a georgia mother faces up to 20 years in jail after disturbing video captures her dragging her young son across a store by a leash. >> the video is all over the internet. tens of thousands have seen it already. there's mom. the video lasts about 20 seconds pulling him throughout the verizon wireless store. in rome, georgia. >> the mother, 37-year-old melissa means, is charged with first-degree cruelty to children. >> i think this is a person who
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has a certain attitude about discipline which is, you know, not a good one. >> mom also cites multiple illnesses including lupus and pneumonia saying she couldn't physically pick up the boy if she wanted to. police say the child had a bruise on the left side of his neck from the leash. >> if they're doing something pretty disgusting in public, then chances are they're doing at least that if not more in private. >> mom messed up here. clearly lost it as a parent. not what you want to do. but is it a felony? a woman dragging her child through a store in georgia. there it is. the kid's flat -- you know, we don't know a lot of the back story. you figure the kid was having some kind of tantrum. that's how mom handled it. end result here, she's charged with felony child cruelty. >> she doesn't look sick to me. oh, no. and mommy's out at the verizon store where stunned shoppers see her dragging her child by the
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neck on a leash through the store, him lying there in a prone position. let's unleash the lawyers. joining me tonight out of new york, susan moss, child advocate. renee rockwell, defense attorney out of atlanta. and renowned attorney, alex sanchez, defense attorney joining us out of new york. go ahead, sue. >> she dragged her son by a leash? she should be in jail. capisce? what happens at home? do they make this kid sleep in a crate? look. if this wasn't her son and she dragged some stranger by the neck with a leash, clearly a felony. just because it's her son, she should not be treated any differently. >> renee rockwell, earlier our reporter eric jens with wrga mentioned there was no lasting injury, which, of course, is not a requirement for felony child cruelty. i do know the child's neck was bruised and red from the leash around the neck. thoughts? >> nancy, i don't know that after they get down to the
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bottom of this investigation, i don't know that it's going to show that there was anything around the child's neck. this was one of these little monkey backpacks and if the truth be known, the child was probably enjoying it. the child's being dragged. >> please put rockwell's picture up. >> you see it right now. you see it right now. the child is being drug on the carpet, not from his neck, but from the backpack, the back of his backpack, and the mother's objecting to the video being only so long because she said he stood up he was laughing and grabbing her by the legs. he probably thought it was a lot of fun. and a joke, nancy. i don't see this going down as a felony. certainly no jail time. >> what can you tell me, matt zarrell, about the child laughing? >> well, the family is telling us that part of the video we don't see that she is -- he is happy and laughing with the mother. however, it appears from this video he does not look very happy. >> why didn't the mom say that when police first came up to her?
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instead she said, he wouldn't stand up, he wouldn't cooperate, i'm having a hard time with him, he's not doing what i'm telling him to do, that's why i have to drag him, plus i have lupus and pneumonia. i didn't hear anything about there being a game they were playing. >> well, she threw out a couple different excuses, including the pneumonia, including she couldn't lift the child up. and then she noted at the end, oh, yeah, my son likes this backpack and likes when i drag him. >> let's go out to marc klaas president and founder of klaas kids foundation. marc? >> nancy, i agree kind of a little bit with renee, surprisingly enough. i think 16 seconds worth of videotape is not enough to condemn a woman to 20 years in prison for. this could very well be certainly a bad judgment but a woman and her son young having a terribly bad day. >> a bad day. okay. marc klaas, from you, i have to say, i'm surprised. alex sanchez, there's not going to be a 20-year jail sentence. that's not going to happen. 20 year to life jail sentences
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on child cruelty or aggravated child cruelty as a result of severe beatings, cigarette burnings, sodomy or rape of a child. she's not going to get 20 years behind bars for this but in my mind it does rise to a crime. >> well, i disagree with you. i don't think it does rise to a crime and i think if you look at that videotape, i think we need to clarify very clearly. this was not a leash around the neck that you might find on a dog, and if you're pulling somebody with a leash like that, you may seriously hurt them. this was a different type of leash entirely. this child was not being hurt. it turns out the kid did not suffer any type of serious injury. so where's the crime? she's never been in trouble before. >> you know, alex, when children are -- >> why don't we give her the benefit of the doubt. >> that's for a jury to do. say when a child is locked in a steaming hot minivan and left out in a parking lot for a couple of hours, the child doesn't die, it doesn't have heat stroke. it lives.
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so does that lessen what the parents did to the child? does it mean it didn't happen? >> there was no intention here. the child was not hurt. as marc said, this was an isolated incident. >> you don't know that. >> it shows 16 seconds. listen, this kid -- i'm sure the department of child welfare is investigating whether or not -- >> hold on. dr. saunders, weigh in. >> this is a critical failure in a parent's judgment. whether the child enjoyed it or not is irrelevant. he is at risk. somebody could have stepped on his head. he could have slammed into a corner and fractured his skull. it's dangerous. >> surveillance video of a mom dragging her child across the floor in a cell phone store. number one, are you going to do that at a cell phone store, someone's flipping on the cell phone video and that's what's happening here. dragging around her son like a dog on a leash. police locked her up. she's facing a felony. i'll clean the pool if you clean the windows.
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you're done? she pulled a fast one! ( laughs ) new windex outdoor all-in-one. a streak-free shine in half the time. s.c. johnson, a family company. the body of the boy found in the new york canal on monday has been positively identified this afternoon as that of 8-year-old robert manwill. preliminary results from the autopsy give us reason to believe that 8-year-old robert manwill's death was not an accident. >> the timeline of the night robert manwill vanished has been murky but now has the investigation been blown wide open? an "idaho statesman" report claims a 7-year-old girl who lives in the neighborhood saw robert the night he disappeared. the little girl certain she saw
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robert on the complex swing set, even seeing him jump off to play on the toy motorcycle. the girl's parents think she came home around 7:30. about the same time the girl claims robert left for his mother's apartment. reports say the girl and her family questioned multiple times by the fbi. as authorities out in full force, trying to determine who might be responsible for robert's death. >> the case is now being investigated by the boise police department as a homicide. there remains no evidence that robert was abducted by a stranger. we believe we will determine how and when robert died and who is responsible, and we will hold those responsible for robert's death accountable. >> it is very clear from the words of the police, you're
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hearing a presser that is just happening as we go to air tonight, that someone intentionally killed an 8-year-old little boy. an 8-year-old little boy. what is that? second grade? a second grader? his body has been found in a nearby body of water. who killed this child? and disposed of his body in this waterway? and another thing, out to you clark goldband, our producer on the story. this is what i don't understand. i'm not getting a clear picture of what mommy and her live-in have to say about the timeline. didn't we get the stories from somewhere that they thought the little boy, an 8-year-old, had gone to a party at 7:30 at night? i don't get it. my twins are in their pajamas at home at 7:30 at night. >> yes, nancy. there are conflicting stories on what happened. we had heard two versions of events.
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the first version being that he had asked his mom and her boyfriend that he wanted to about to a party and may have left anyway. the other version we're also hearing is now that robert was at a playground around 7:30 at night, went back to his apartment, and that advances the timeline there. now, there is breaking news at a press conference that just concluded moments ago. law enforcement has positively identified robert manwill. repeat, we can confirm that this is robert manwill's body. law enforcement also saying they have reason to believe this was not an accident, but it may be a murder. >> not an accident. out to greg hahn, the editor of "the idaho statesman." greg, thank you for being with us. what can you tell us about new witness emerging, a 7-year-old little girl? >> we first started hearing about her a couple of days ago. we finally talked to her yesterday. and, in fact, the little girl had a very clear memory. she told her parents as soon as they heard that night that robert was missing.
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she remembers what color swing she was on, what color swing he was on. and like you just said, he got off to play on the motorcycle a little bit and then went home. it's really the closest we could get to somebody who saw him that day. >> she says, greg hahn, joining us from "the idaho statesman," they were on a swing. one was on a red swing. one was on a green swing. he got off to go play on a motorcycle? what motorcycle? why was he on a motorcycle? >> i think it's just a toy there in the playground. >> i see, i get it. >> one of those rocking things. >> you get on them and you rock back and forth, i got it. greg, next question. the child is -- because that was scary to me, that some unknown person may have parked a motorcycle there. >> it's idaho but we're not that crazy. >> okay. so next thing, he went home from playing on the playground. the child knows that? could she see his apartment from the playground? was it, for instance, a horseshoe-shaped apartment complex with the playground in the middle?
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>> it is -- not all the apartments can be seen from the playground and i'm not 100% sure. i'm not sure where they all line up, but i think she said he was going home and she said she was going home and it was about 7:30. >> 7:30 p.m. and greg hahn, was this a weeknight or weekend night? >> this is friday night. a friday night. and here -- she point out. it does stay light pretty late in boise in the summertime. >> yes. until 9:00. okay. we are taking your calls live. out to marc klaas, president and founder of klaas kids foundation. why did mommy quit coming to the press conferences, marc klaas? >> i don't know why mommy quit coming to the press conferences, but i do know 7:30 p.m. starts to establish a timeline that is maybe a little bit believable for the first time in this case. it's been problematic all the way through. we've never really known when the little boy was last seen, who he was last seen with, or where he was. so at least now law enforcement is starting to hone in on something like this.
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now, i know when law enforcement confirmed to her that it was probably her son that was in the canal, that she was escorted away from the police department, that she was crying, and that she was being supported by a couple of people, and that the family then asked for their privacy. and that, quite frankly, is very consistent with the very same experience we had when we were informed that polly was -- polly had been found. >> i understand. and that makes perfect sense to me. marc klaas who's joining us from san francisco, president and founder of klaas kids foundation. we are taking your calls. out to tracy, north carolina. hi, tracy. >> caller: hi, nancy, thank you for taking my call. >> thank you for calling in, dear. what's your question? >> caller: i love you. i just can't understand why that mother would have custody of that little boy after she's already had a child with which i understand is a head injury. and why in god's name would
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somebody give her a child, and she's already abused one, assumptionly. and i just can't understand, it breaks my heart. >> out to clark goldband, our producer on the story, joining us out of new york. >> she pled guilty in march to a misdemeanor charge of injury to a child. court records show us she apparently fractured that child's skull by striking him against a hard surface. >> repeat. >> she pled guilty to misdemeanor charge of injury to a child. she apparently from court records struck the child's head on a hard surface and caused contusion injury. >> what was her sentence in that case, clark goldband? >> well, she was sentenced to 29 days work release and paid a fine of $75.50. >> no parenting classes? no jail time? nothing? and then she's got unsupervised visitation with this child? >> that's our understanding. >> okay.
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let's go to the lawyers, susan moss, renee rockwell, alex sanchez. what about it, sue moss? >> add to the picture that the first story that was reported in the press was that she said that this 8-year-old wanted to go to a party at 9:30. now, an 8-year-old has to be pretty hardy to go to a 9:30 party. it's absolutely ridiculous. the timeline may not have been released because it was so absolutely fabricated and ridiculous that it wouldn't have done any good to solve this case. >> we are taking your calls live on this case. what happened to the 8-year-old little boy. as we go to air, the police presser stating his death is not an accident. why did this 8-year-old little boy die? who is responsible for killing this child and discarding his body in a local waterway? we are taking your calls. we want justice. for robert manwill. very quickly, to tonight's
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safety tips on preventing fires. please, be aware of potential hazards in your home. lots of home fires are caused by electrical devices installed improperly. check those appliances, cords, outlets, cooking also the leading cause of house fires. don't leave your food unsupervised on the stove or in the oven. turn the pot handles in so they won't be accidentally knocked over. and keep those fire extinguishers handy. don't smoke in bed. put out cigarettes before you throw them in the trash. never let children play with matches or lighters. make sure smoke alarms are working. and change the batteries every year. it's not that hard. have a fire escape plan. for more, go to the national fire prevention association at nfpa.org.
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there remains no evidence that robert was abducted by a stranger. we believe we will determine how and when robert died and who is responsible. and we will hold those responsible for robert's death accountable. our focus today remains the same as it was on july 24th on robert. and to find answers to what happened to cut short the life of this little boy. this is now a criminal investigation. and our justice system demands
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criminal investigations, no matter how complex, be thorough and methodical. please understand we cannot compromise the legal procedures and the integrity of this very important case with a premature release of investigative details. >> to dr. william morrone joining us out of madison heights, michigan. dr. morrone, the child's body has been underwater for some time. how can they look at it and know this was not an accident, translation, it's homicide. if it's not an accident, that only leaves suicide and homicide. >> what they're going to do is look at radiographic x-rays and those x-rays are possibly going to show signs of trauma. they're going to look for bruises. and all those things are not going to be related to accidents. they're going to be related to abuse because perpetrators do the same thing. have the same model over and over. >> out to bill majewski, special
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guest joining us, former nypd detective. he's now president of majewski associates. bill, as always, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> bill, what do you make of this 7-year-old little girl that blows open the timeline? this child was not going to any party as we were told before. an 8-year-old out at a party at 7:30 at night. that's simply b.s. >> i think she has become an integral part of this investigation. the chief in this press conference spoke volumes saying there was no evidence linking some kind of an abduction from an outsider or a stranger. it's clear to me that they are on to something with their investigative process. they're probably very close to reaching a conclusion on that process. he's somewhat apologetic about not giving information to the public, which is the correct thing to do. >> yes. >> it's going to wind up being something that's very close. the young girl that gave the information, it's extremely interesting information and
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important information because it now establishes a new time line that the police can go forward on. they can go back, reinterview a lot of people, and move forward on this very quickly. >> everyone, we're taking your calls live. but very quickly, why no charges? i guess a bunch of well-heeled medical physicians, pharmacies, and an entourage that gave dope to a known addict until he died in front of his own children. yes. i'm talking about michael jackson. take a listen. >> the parties and the california court brought about a result that is selfless and wise. everyone's got the same objective, doing what was best for the children of debbie rowe and michael jackson. >> breaking news out of los angeles, a judge has granted michael jackson's mother katharine custody of his three children. last week, she and michael's ex-wife debbie rowe came to a
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custody agreement over the two older kids. >> rowe waived her parental rights in 2001 telling a los angeles court, quote, they are his children. all part of an $8.5 million settlement in which the pop star got full custody. >> the battle over jackson's assets, of course, is also center stage as katharine jackson seeks to gain some control over his multi-million dollar estate. she and the singer's children will all get monthly allowances. >> she's getting 40% of the estate and the kids get the other 40%, and she's the guardian so she does have a role and a right to know things. the issue here is information. katherine jackson's lawyers saying they're being kept in the dark. there seems to be a veil of suspicion over what's in the estate. >> mrs. jackson wants a seat at the table. she wants control and some money. >> anybody who tries to contest this will on any level, whether it's with the executors or with anything, they're not living out michael's wishes. >> you know what? forget about the money.
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forget about the will. forget about the fact that jackson was charged with child molestation. because right now, we are looking at a homicide investigation, a potential homicide investigation, and to you, allen duke, entertainment editor cnn wire, here's the thinking. i've had to argue to many juries -- for instance, when i had a dope murder. a lot of juries are happy a dope dealer is dead. they're grateful. but that's not the point. the point is, did a murder take place, regardless of who the victim is? lady justice is supposed to be blind, remember? i guarantee you if i shot somebody up in the neck with propofol and they died an hour later of a cardiac arrest? i would be under the jail right now. >> well, we can expect that there eventually will be charges. there's a very vigorous investigation. >> it's been 41 days, allen. >> well, and there have been searches.
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we don't know when there might be charges brought. we do know that almost a week ago the los angeles district attorney met with the coroner and the detectives from the los angeles police department. at the end of that meeting the coroner emerged or a spokesman for the coroner emerged and said they have no idea when they're going to release the autopsy results. we confirmed today it's not coming this week. we're not going to hear that this week. >> ellie jostad, autopsy results aside, when they're going to be released, fine. we knew they were going to be slow in releasing that and the toxicology reports. what i'm wondering are there going to be charges? or because these are well-heeled, educated doctors, pharmacies, famous celebrity hangers-on, nobody's going to do anything. >> well, nancy, as allen mentioned, we do know of about at least five searches. you've got dr. conrad murray's offices in houston, his offices in las vegas, and way back in the beginning of the investigation, lapd spokesperson said three different warrants
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served in los angeles. i want to thank you so much for all of your calls and e-mails about my book, the eleventh victim. you are the very first to see it right now. of course, after lucy, a picture here who grabbed it first. it's about a prosecutor who tries her best to give up criminal law and when her friends are murdered one by one, the mipd hones in on her. it took me years to write this book. i started when i first left felony prosecution and i missed it so much. since then, i've wrote another book and published it. since then i got married, got
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