shocking new developments in the brutal killing of an innocent 8-year-old boy. his own mother and her live-in boyfriend charged today with first-degree murder. little robert manuel's body found floating in a canal. the details are getting worse, more heinous. allegations of torture, beatings at the hands of the boyfriend and a mother who knew about it and did nothing to stop it. plus, a heroic attempt at a best buy store. thief storms in, runs out with some stolen goods. workers jump into action, but the punk ends up pulling out a knife, cuts the manager. now the employees, they are now going to be fired because of a rule against going after shoplifters. i get the policy, but they tried

to do the right thing. do you really have to fire them here? call in. love to hear from you. the number, 1-877-tell-hln eve mail us, cnn.com/prime news or text us at hlntv. start your message with the word prime. your chance to be heard. controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." welcome this is "prime news," i'm mike galanos. this hour, a live-in boyfriend and a mother sit behind bars, charged with first degree murder in the heinous killing of her own little boy. robert manuel's body was found floating in a canal near boise, idaho, on august 3rd. here are the suspects, melissa jenkins, she is 30, mother of two other kids, and her live-in boyfriend, daniel ehrlich jr., he is 36. criminal record goes back to junior high. now, they were arrested yesterday and the grand jury indictment was just unsealed today. details, horrific. police say little robert scuffered ongoing emotional abuse, physical abuse, so

brutal, it ended up killing him. ehrlich jr., accused of torturing robert, beating him with his hands, feet, mom even helped, didn't help her son, so no one would find out or get him help. she did nothing. let's take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it don clarking, former fbi special agent in charge and with us, mark iglarst, a former prosecutor and with us, greg han, local editor for the "iowa statesman." greg, what happened to the little guy on the day he died? do we know specifics here? >> we don't even know what day he died. the police have been -- what you guys have seen in the indictments is as much detail as they have released. as kind of horrific as it is, doesn't really offer the details and insight you have to even replicate what might have happened. we had a glue yesterday. the police started asking folks for information about what jenkins and ehrlich -- what

their actions were in the week leading up to his reported disappearance, which made us think it was more than just about that friday night where they called the police. >> okay do we definitively know, greg that is the last day little robert was seen, july 24th? >> you know, we tried for days to find folks. and as close as we could get to someone who said they saw them that day was 75-year-old girl, a neighbor. >> yeah. >> her parents believed her. and still has no proof that she didn't see him, but the 7-year-old girl was the last one of all the neighbors, all the family and friends that we could talk to who thought she had seen him out there. >> yeah. and there was a report that ehrlich jr., watching little robert, his story was, what, he last saw robert at the pool or in the jacuzzi with a heavyset couple, right? >> yeah. that was one of the stories that folks told us he was saying. we heard also that he it told police that he thought his dad had maybe taken the boy. did he tell at least one

neighbor that he had seen robert down by the hot tub, i guess, by the pool with a couple. the man had a mustache and folks he didn't know. >> okay. in the indictment, it talks about robert being subjected too, i'll quoting here, escalating physical violence. i mean, was robert beaten and abused every time he went to visit his mom? do we know how long this was going on? >> you know, we -- we haven't -- we never were able to find any evidence of that i mean, obviously, the police have laid that out, or the prosecutor has. we have talked to family and friends and his teachers and various other folks, but we are still trying to nail down exactly how long he was back at his mom's house. dad had custody in a town about an hour away. >> right. >> but she had visitation rights work he don't know if he was there for weekends. this lays out, went over from the month of june toward the end of july, so we are trying to find out now if he pretty much had been living there for the summer or been on and off. >> and just --

>> but -- >> so we are all clear here, greg that is what the indictment was insinuating, it wasn't just a one-time beating, he was being beaten as he visited mom but we are not sure over what timeframe, right? >> exactly right. from the way we read that that is what ties her into the first-degree murder charges, is that she kind of watched this happening and helped keep other folks from knowing about it. >> didn't call, didn't give help, nothing for her own flesh and blood, cute little 8-year-old boy i want to bring don clark in. don is that the way you're reading it as well that this little guy was subjected to just escalating abuse and we are still just trying to nail down a time line here? >> absolutely, mike. and this is just horrendous. every time i think i have seen a worse situation, something else pops up here. but you know, my big question is, law enforcement's going to do the right thing in this case, they have to, to really trace down and nail this case down. there's a lot of good evidence out there, but where the heck has cps been during the course of all of this, too? and i think law enforcement

should go and talk to cps and try to find out what they knew, which will help them make their case. >> let me ask mark this, before we go to break, mark, we got about 30 here, that is one of the questions. mom was basically convicted of fracturing the skull of her 9-month-old son. >> it was ruled an accident because they didn't have any witnesses, the way i understand it it was just a little 9-month-old and mom and she lost custody. >> probation. and was still on probation during this. so, how -- >> robert go there for an unsupervised visit, mark? >> good question. someone needs to be held accountable there is your 30-second answer, mike there is no excuse for it was she properly rehabilitated? obviously, she couldn't handle her first child and now left to care for this one. this one, mike, this one is touching me worse than anyone else. my son, this could be my oldest son t is heartbreaking. >> i'm with you, mark. we are going to take a quick break and take your calls, your comes, your questions, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. develop further into the

history -- look at that smile that cute little grin and what he must have went through before his death, little robert manuel. going to get to the bottom of it for you. stay with us.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we will continue our could haves, and this is one that is most difficult. we are talking about the death of 8-year-old robert manuel. look at that cute little guy. the indictment against his own mom and her live-in boyfriend is that he was tortured and beaten to death. beaten with hands, feet, whatever daniel ehrlick jr. could do to inflict pain on little robert, that is what he did, and that is the accusation

here in the indictment. let's take a phone call. mary ann is with us in illinois. mary ann, your thoughts here? >> caller: personally, i'm getting so tired of people abusing children, beating children, murdering children, and all of a sudden, they got a mental problem. they should be executed immediately, given the same rights and privileges as their child. >> yeah, this one is most difficult. had they all are and this one is fresh, because we see that cute little face, an 8-year-old boy. and you just stop and think of the size and demeanor of an 8-year-old and how he could go through this. gosh, it's unthinkable. greg hahn is with us, local news editor, idaho statesman, covering this from the get-go. greg, why? do we have any kind of motive at all why someone would do this to an innocent little guy like that? >> we haven't even -- the closest thing it gets, folks didn't seem to be very close to either of these folks. she drifted in and out with her family. you know, sometimes she was estranged from her mom, her sister. we'd hard time finding people outside of his, ehrlick's real

immediate family to find folks. so, there's not a lot of people who could really talk about you know, their psychology and where they were coming from. it just didn't seem like we could find any close friends who kind of sat down and, you know, really knew them very well. >> mike, i wanted to respond to something mary ann said earlier. >> yeah, mark. >> obviously in this case, we always have to presume, if we can, to believe that somebody's innocent. and let me just say this, if they did this horrific, unimaginable crime, there are, in idaho, only two possibilities, life or death, and in this case, i would be shocked if they don't seek death. they have the same thing here in florida, heinous, atrocious and cruel. if they really tortured this child the way they are alleging, i expect them to seek the death penalty. >> and that is part of the indictment, says that ehrlick jr. intentionally tortured manuel with the intent to cause suffering, to execute vengeance, satisfy some sadistic inclination by inflicting on

robert manuel extreme or prolonged acts of brutality. >> with their history, mike, poster children for the death penalty, assuming they really did this. >> hey, don, as an investigator, as you see this unfold, do you think mom is the one telling the story now? >> well, i suspect that mom is telling her story, but what the law enforcement has got to do in this case, mike is that they have got to do detailed, detailed interrogations of all the people who had any contact with this so they cannot let this just be an insane type of a case. they have got to get that evidence and really nail it down solidly so those laws can be imposed. >> hey, mark, do you think mom's defense is going to be she was afraid of the guy? >> that very well might be. pointing the finger over at him. and also, hey, i didn't do anything, it was him. and where are the eyewitnesses? the one who -- the key eyewitness now, they have allegedly killed. so, they will point the finger back at each other and say, look, i didn't do it. he did t they might go back and forth. >> real quick. greg, i got to ask you this one,

melissa jenkins has a 2 1/2-year-old daughter, she is a little older now. we knew that she did not allow the little daughter to be alone with daniel ehrlick, jr. did we ever find out why? >> we did. we talked to the father and he said he just -- he didn't really have a specific reason. he was the one -- he had full custody, he could decide, the courts did whatever he wanted. he just said he didn't like him, something about ehrlick he didn't like, couldn't put his finger on it but he didn't want him to be alone with the little girl. >> could to be his numerous felony convictions, violations of probation, the fact he has been to prizen? come on. >> if he didn't like it, why didn't he take some action about it? he was the one who had custody. >> well, as things look, good move on his part. guys, we got to run. tough case. thanks so much. coming up, another difficult one, little autistic boy witnesses a horrific crime, mom and dad murdered right in front of him. investigators now looking to him

for clues, this in the murder of byrd and melanie billings.

welcome back. an anonymous writer, slamming a model online, calling her psychotic, skank. words so vicious the case made to court. will the judge rule the model can get information about her tormenter? you know, i think it is a good thing. people think they can say and do anything they want online. i think there should be consequences. good. what a do you think? call in. 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. right now, as we move onto this story, huge developments in a wealthy florida couple's brutal murder. first, we are learning their little boy actually watched the bloody attack on his parents. he describes mom and dad's chilling screams, the masked gunmen, the last moment of byrd and melanie billings' lives. plus this, new speculation on an outrageous motive involving a gang of shady used

car salesmen, possible links to the mexican mafia. we will hit that 1-877-tell-hln is the number. welcome back. don clark, former fbi special agent in charge and with us, rob williams, morning host, news radio 1620 in pensacola. all right, rob, let's start with the child here, just heartbreaking to hear this. i will read out some of the out. masks. by you as well, that his mom, melanie billings, got shot in her shirt. rob, how old is this child? what is this? >> 10 from what we understand. of course, this is all in the evidence released monday, that 700 pages of material put together by the prosecution. part of the discovery process, with all of these reports. and as i said, 700 pages.

stuff is still being unearthed but that's one of the really tough passages you go through. but mike, understand, this the prosecutor will decide will he want to use this 10-year-old autistic child? and i don't know the kid's capacity for communicating. vel to make a very tough call, is this child going to be able to sit on the stand? is he going to be able to deal with a cross-examination from a defense attorney who is basically going to hammer, do you recognize my client, do you recognize my clean the every time they put this on trial. and don't forget, this whole thing is on video, every movement he describes is all on video. the family is fighting to keep that, well, i guess, off the internet and keep that out of the public record until they can't do it anymore. >> let's pick up with that, don. a couple things off that, what rob was saying, how delicate is to question a child and a child with autism here? let's start there.

>> mike, it's extremely delicate when you're dealing with kids. number one, you got to be careful that you are not leading them to tell them what you really want to hear, so i've got to get the setting properly, get the kids set soup they are specifically answering your questions, make sure that it's videotaped. make sure that you've got witnesses in the room and not though those questions out there that's going to cause -- that you're going to be leading the kid, because that's going to make them very nervous and only going to give you what you want to hear. >> okay. so rob, second point there, do you think the videotape will be enough and the little guy's testimony won't be needed in court? >> you would probably think that. don't forget, the video made this case. that's why they had the break within 48 hours, they knew red van, got red van, they knew the guy that owned that and all the other arrests followed within 48 hours after that the whole thing is on video. sheriff david morgan, you have had him on your show before, said he has seen it and you know it's coming and it's a shock answered saw it again and he said it is still a shock.

they can most likely extrapolate which of the guys in black was which based on the way they walk or determining their height, that sort of thing. i think it's going to be a real probable. and of course, we haven't heard the results of things like gun powder residue tests on gloves and shirts and that sort of thing, which is certainly will reveal the shooter. >> don, you agree with that? >> yes, i do there is another ontion there, too, which is to use what you got from the little guy as lead value as opposed to looking toward testimony, get that information and then that develops the leads and then you may get a different person to testify. >> guys, get a call in. joseph is with us in florida. joseph, your comment or question here? >> caller: okay, i just want to say my prayers go out to the family. i don't see how they can do that in front of that 10-year-old child. i know how that 10-year-old child is feeling. i just don't see how they can do that in front of them. >> we are talking about some bad men here, to say the least. joseph, thanks for "the call"

there. and before the break, let's hit on that rob, we have got -- the alleged mastermind, leonard gonzalez jr. is telling a story now and that -- that a gang, the way he is putting it of used car dealers, they didn't like byrd billings, wanted him dead. is that what they are saying, and what, a guy named cab tice came up to him and said, yeah, do the job, kill byrd billings? >> very, very convoluted story that probably changes every time it's a told or every time it's heard. supposedly, we call him pat gonzalez, gonzalez the younger. >> okay. >> he was -- i'm partnering up with ready, justin, the billings' child who is an estranged child and he says he acted as a hitman for various used car dealers around pensacola to maybe strong arm people into maybe making their car payments or other people that disappeared. >> hang tight, rob. more --

welcome back to "prime news." here is the story. two employees at best buy tackle a thief, shoplifter, trying to get out of the place. so they go after him. well they get fired. they broke store policy that forbids contact with shoplifters. go i know is keep workers safe and bystanders safe. isn't firing a little har smash deep down, there were strike loyal employees and do the right thing. what do you think? we will take your calls on that at 1-877-tell-hln. and take your calls on this story as well. you can't say and do whatever you want on the internet and get away with it case in point. an anonymous blogger created a site called skanks in nyc that featured pictures of a model and

the blogger called her some painfully vicious names here. it is tough for me to say them, all right. believe me, psychotic is one of them, skank is another one with. that was a year ago. well, this week, a judge ruled that cohen has the right to learn the identity of her online bully and ordered google to release it. i think that is a good thing. there should be consequences for that kind of garbage online. taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about it liz cohen, the model here that had to go through that, her attorney with us, steven wagner and also with us, a security, privacy and cyberspace lawyer. lizkula, i want to start with you, you get the e-mail address for this person. have you had contact with them? did you have a conversation with what were they doing and why? why were they going after you? >> i don't really know why she went after me, but yes, i did have a conversation with her. >> what was said? >> i asked her why she did it,

she didn't really have a reason for me. and i told her that if i had ever done anything in my life to her to deserve that that i was sorry. >> did she -- did she or he apologize? it is a she, right? >> no. >> she did not apologize? >> no no. >> was she insulting again as you spoke or pretty silent and didn't want to talk at all? >> she was pretty silent, did really have a lot to say, sort of could hear the nervousness in her voice. >> okay. i will ask your lawyer this one. steven, are you going forward with a defamation lawsuit or has this ended? >> no no it has not ended, we are going forward with the lawsuit. >> okay. um, liskula, i got to ask you this one before we develop into the larger issue ramifications here, what made you stand up and fight? 'cause there's a lot of garbage online and personally i don't like it. i'm glad you did stand up and fight, because i think there should be consequences, but what made you take a stand here? >> i was grossly offended and i stood up for what i believe was

wrong. >> plain and simple. steven, did you all along think we have got a good case here? >> well, my -- i started out by just trying to get google to provide the name so we could contact the person. and asked them to take the site hard. get a favorable decision, a stern, clear decision from the judge. >> i'm glad you won, surprised you won, but you're going after google. there's large ramifications here. are you surprised at all that you won? >> not surprised at all that i won. we had a good, strong case. >> okay. >> am i surprised? >> yeah. both of you, almost iskula?

>> n

>>. >> this happens thousands of times a day. this case is only important, i think, a, giving this woman justice, aside from that important everyone to understand if you need justice, you can reach out and find out who is behind that blog and who is behind that hateful post just as easily e. >> that is good. i think it is great news a call in, see what people are saying. cynthia is with us from michigan. hi, your comment or question here? >> caller: hi, i have to agree. i definitely believe it could be a potential for something worse than heckling someone online. it could be a potential for stalking and a potential for some sort of violence and i absolutely agree, they should be -- our rights should be -- our rights should be protected, not the heckler. >> exactly that. guys, let's take a quick break. we come back, much more on this, we will just get more phone calls in on this and continue to talk to the major players here. here is the number, 1-877-tell-hln. call in.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our conversation about a victory in court for a model who was slammed online. there was a site, the skankiest in new york city. well, her name was out there she was called all kind of horrific names. well, through the court, she was able to find out, google had to give up the e-mail address of the person doing that i thank you is a good thing there should be consequences. we should be able to call out people for doing wrong. let's go to the phones. bobby is with us in texas. bobby, go ahead. >> caller: i just want to make one thing perfectly clear, first of all. i do agree there should be consequences but i know where i live in texas there is a talk show host that this man wrote some vicious things about this

man's family. none of it was true its judge threw it out. said our public person, they can write whatever they want to. >> the lawyer, steven, people hear this story, what does that mean for me, not just me personally, someone is going online, blasting away, calling someone all kinds of names? can we all call that person to the carpet or whoever is doing it? >> no. >> no? >> one of the hallmarks, one of the things the court did in this case was made preliminary determinations that this was not simply an opinion that it was a therefore, could be disproven as false. if somebody has an opinion that is not actionable. what happened here is the blogger, the anonymous blogger went so far over the line in calling liskula cone chen, able demonstrate on each of the

standards each of the court might have been concerned about that she had been defamed. one of the interesting things about this case is that the standards, the anonymous blogger is trying to say that trash talking, using words like jerk or a whole string of words is not actionable and therefore, should be permitted. but it's not just the word, it's the context. and also whether the reader or stating a fact or an opinion. i want to get perry in on this. perry, the judge greet quothed a virginia court ruling, i believe, basically, that the case dealt with nameless online taunters should be held accountable when their derision crossed the line. who decides the line? >> ultimately determined by the jury at the end of the day. >> okay. >> this is just making sure you know who to sue, you know who to get discovery from this is just,

we think you did something wrong, we know who you are, we will sue you in court. ultimately, the jury will decide if will is liability, but when you are looking at talk show hosts, like the last call her indicated, you have to look at a different level when someone is a public figure or a politician, because we are used to getting a lot of people who harass us, but if you're an every day person, even a model, you're entitled to be protected from people who are defaming you or harassing you. if new york had a better law on this one this might even be crime that. >> okay. guys got to leave it there, fascinating conversation. perry, stevens, thanks so much, liskula, congratulations on you winning here. plain and simple, the mayor of milwaukee is a hero, coming to the rescue of a woman screaming for help at the wisconsin state fair, then he was brutally beaten, lost a couple of teeth, has his hands shatter bud tom barrett says he has no regrets. out of the hospital and speaking publicly for the first time.

bring in our prime news correspondent richelle carey. what do you have to say? >> he says anybody would have done it. he has a cast on his arm, cuts to the back of his head, he had to have staples, gashes on his face, all right? he is down playing all of this. the mayor is 55 years old. says he is not a hero. when someone yells, called e9ed when someone yells, called e9 e what is what you are supposed to do. >> our immediate thought is there is something wrong with the baby. within seconds, we realize the problem was not with the baby, it was with the man. and he came up and was very, very agitated. >> police say this guy was 20 years old. he was drunk. he went on to beat the mayor with the pipe. actually also ended up finding out he was the father of the child. apparently angry because he wasn't allowed to see the child. as for the woman and the baby, they are all doing fine. impressive. >> heroic.

yeah. no doubt. no matter what he says. how about this one? was this heroic two employees at best buy, they chased thieves, tackle one of them, end up getting fired. they broke the store's policy forbidding contact with shoplifters. you should just let them go not worth it, we need to keep everybody safe. but did they have to lose their jobs? was the firing too har smash we will take your calls at a tel it tel.

welcome back. this one doesn't seem right. two employees at a best buy shoplifter. but it went wrong. now, they are both out of a job. here's what happened. the store in broomfield, colorado. guy walks in, gets out with stolen goods. one employee goes after him, tackles him. another comes out to help.

manager steps in, gets cut with a knife. sadly, the bad guy gets away. them. zero tolerance policy here. if employees touch a shoplifter, go after him, they are fired. and i get the policy. you want to keep everybody safe. they broke the rules here. but at heart, they are trying to be loyal employs, can't you give them a warning, suspension, send the message that way? what are your thoughts? call in, 1-877-tell-hln. let's bring in the experts. mark is back with us, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, also rejoining us, don clark, former fbi special agent in charge. mark, i get it. it is not worth t you don't want to be messing with somebody who could be dangerous, but do you have to fire them here? >> mike, you are such a softy. >> am i a softy? >> usually you are so soft. i don't think that you understand. when you go after a bad guy, you could get stabbed. oh, that's right, the guy did get stabbed, mike. guess who they are going to turn around and sue? best buy. i guarantee you.

just earlier this month, jim nicholson, a bank teller, went after a bad guy. he caught the bank robber, he was fired, too. apparently, the message isn't getting around and these people are endangering their own lives and then sue the companies. you can't do it. >> okay. don, you gonna scold me as well? guys fired? >> not scold you like mark did. but i really do think that they have to do the right thing here. there are just too many things that can go wrong that cause employees to be hurt, certainly cause shoppers to be hurt and all types of things going on. get the right information, stand by, take a look at it so that you can be a good witness in this and abide by the rules. >> get best buy's statement out there i don't know if you have to. side. there any procedures for dealing the store. these procedures are in place, first and foremost, for the

safety of our employees. i get it get to the phones. maybe someone's on the softy side here. carolyn is with us in kentucky. carolyn, your thoughts? >> caller: yes, i'm here, hello. >> what do you think, should they have been fired or not. >> caller: well, i don't necessarily believe they should have been fired but i do believe there should have been some type of possibly a slap on the wrist, as he said. >> yeah. well, let's run with that theory. say you slap them on the wrist, give your loyal employees. >> exactly. >> but now you send a message to thes that you sonde of other best buy employees that if you violate this strict employee we are going to fire -- no give you your job back and slap on the wrist that is the message that it sends, i agree, no good deed goes unpunished, the radioed to hell paved with good intentions. head them off at the pass what ever other cliche i want to throw out? >> you know, mike -- >> the bottom line, you got to send a message, country go after the bad guys 'cause you could get killed. >> go ahead, don.

>> the whole thing also, got to put law enforcement in this, what if police arrive at the scene of this us it they don't know who's who, the if it's the guys. so you put everybody in a tough situation. so i think you've got to send a strong message, people just can't take that into their own hands. >> go to the phones. i need some more help. i'm being taken to the woodshed on this one. carl in kentucky. go ahead, carl. >> caller: yes yeah, i disagree strongly that they should not have been fired. i don't think they should have been fired because, i mean, i've been mugged before and instant reaction, i take after them until i realized what i was doing, it wouldn't have been a good idea. but by the same token it's a normal reaction, i think, and i just don't agree that they should have been fired. >> okay. all right. count the two callers and me. now it's 3-2. we're beating you two. let me ask you this, mark. so let's say -- let's flip it

and say you've got shoplifters and nobody does anything at best buy and on the way out the shoplifter accosts some bystander and best buy employees did nothing. could they go after best buy at that point, or is it out of their hands? >> listen, you call the police, mike. look, i know that you want to do the right thing. you know, letting go one dvd of "dumb and dumber" out the door, it's not worth getting stabbed. it's just not worth it. i understand their policy. >> and i agree with that. if i'm working best buy, i'm letting them walk out the door as well. it's hard. i think there should be a suspension. you lose some pay. but the firing, i think that's where me and some of the callers are going. i hear you guys taking a tough line stance on this. i want more phone calls. i need some help here. call in. 1-877-tell-hln. can we stick up for the best buy employees or not? can't wait to hear from you. dd

shocking new developments in the brutal killing of an innocent 8-year-old boy. his own mother and her live-in boyfriend charged today with first-degree murder. little robert manwill's body found floating in a canal. the details, just heinous. allegations of torture, beatings at the hand of the boyfriend, and a mother who knew about it and did nothing to stop it. plus, a heroic attempt at a best buy store. a thief storms in, shoplifts, takes some goods out of there. two workers jump into action. one of them tackles the guy. a manager jumps in. that person gets cut with a knife. now, the employees get fired. they broke a zero tolerance

policy here. i think they're loyal employees at heart. the firing's too much for me. what do you think? do they deserve a second chance? love hearing from you. call in. the number's 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mails, cnn.com/primenews or text us at hlntv. just start your message with the word "prime." it's your chance to be heard. >> con trofrks opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." welcome. this is hour number two of "prime news." i'm mike galanos. this hour, a live-in boyfriend and a mother sit behind bars, charged with first-degree murder in the heinous killing of her own little boy. robert manwill's body was found floating in a canal in boise, idaho august 3rd. the suspects, melissa jenkins. she's 30. a mom of two other kids as well. and her live-in boyfriend, daniel ehrlich jr., he's 36, and with a criminal record. it dates back to junior high. they were arrested yesterday. and the grand jury indictment

just unsealed today. the details, horrific. police say little robert suffered ongoing emotional abuse, physical abuse so brutal it ended up killing him. ehrlick accused of torturing robert, beating him with his hands, feet, and police say mom helped, even hid her son so no one would found out, her son wouldn't get help. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. we have our experts standing by. back with us, don clark, former fbi special agent in charge. mark eiglarsh with us as well, defense attorney, former prosecutor, and also joining us, greg hahn, local news editor for "the idaho statesman." that paper has done a great job on this story. greg, let's -- do we know that robert was definitively murdered july 24th? that was the last day we think he was seen, right? >> yeah, we sure don't. the police started stayed -- or yesterday asking folks if they could offer more information about the week leading up to when he was reported missing. midway through that first ten

days when they were searching for him, you know, they kind of changed their tone as well. it wasn't who was missing friday night, it was who was reported missing friday night. so i think they've been finding evidence that there may have been some stuff leading up to this before ha night. >> don, let me get you in on this very quick, former fbi special agent in charge. what evidence do you need that will tell us when was this little guy last alive? because he was found in water. it's gruesome, but some of the dna, i'm sure, would be washed away. >> yeah, i think it will be washed away. but you know, there are all kinds of tests now that they can really give them to really find out exactly when a death occurred, mike. i don't think for pathologists that's going to be a real big issue to find out when this kid was killed or died. >> when we talk about a timeline, this is brutal to think about because in the indictment it says, i'm quoting here, that robert was subjected to escalating physical violence. greg, do we know how long, how many beatings this little guy took and over what period of time? >> well, we do know that she had

custody -- our team of reporters actually told me this within the last hour. she had custody for seven weeks in the summertime. and the police did say that it started sometime in june. and we're still trying to nail down exactly when he would have gone there. but it does seem that that's obviously most of the month of july and at least some part of june. >> okay. let's bring mark in on this. mark, a lot of people, first thick they wa thing they want to know, will authorities there in idaho go for the death penalty? >> well, i'd be shocked if they didn't. like here in florida, they have heinous, atrocious, and cruel as one of the aggravators. and from what we're reading from the indictment, assuming they can prove that, they've got it. and then you also look at the criminal history of both of these two. you've got the mom, who cracked the skull of her other child, and then the boyfriend, the live-in boyfriend has been in and out of prison. numerous violations of probation. they're poster children for the death penalty, assuming they

really did what's horrifically being alleged. >> yeah, let's get back to greg on that point mark just brought up. and it's one we talked about.ú and let's see if we have any further answers on that. this lady, melissa jenkins, has -- i think the child's older now, but at the time was nine months old, and she basically admitted she fractured the little guy's skull, lost custody. >> that's exactly right. >> how'd she get custody back, and how was little robert able to go there for an unsupervised visit knowing the violence in that home? >> that's a great question. it's one of the biggest ones. we've got several people actually trying to pursue right now. we do know she was charged initially with a felony and that the prosecutor said they had -- this infant's head was hit hard enough on a table or something that it probably wasn't an accident. but they didn't have any witnesses. we talked to the prosecutor in that case, and she said that getting her to plea down to a misdemeanor, going on probation,

was probably the best that they could hope to do in a case like that. then they did take the child away. we know that the child was gone, at least temporarily. and neighbors and family say the two sort of buckled down at that point and went through -- jumped through a lot of hoops, showed the state, took the classes they needed to take, and went through the -- went through all the effort to get custody back. what we don't know is how well the system worked in terms of her other children. you know, she has a little girl, and the father had said i don't want ehrlick alone with her at all, and that was sort of a done deal. that went through to the courts, and that was fine. we don't know in terms of, you know, how well the system works in terms of whether if you have children from different parents, different fathers, you know, whether the case workers are kind of keeping up on everything. so that's some of the questions we're trying to figure out. how did that boy get back in the house. >> exactly. because you look at the family dynamic, and mark, you kind of touched on it. melissa jenkins, three children with three different men. married to another one. this is over a seven-year

period. and that doesn't even include ehrlick, i believe. >> and mike, how about this for bad luck? the father of robert, i read, back in the '90s had his other son, a 4-year-old, stabbed by a female. it was either the wife or a lover. and so she did time in prison for that. so this guy has lost two of his children. mike, i just can't imagine. >> exactly. and this is by -- just to be clear, this was a wife -- i believe it was over a decade ago, correct, mark? >> correct. in the '90s. early '90s. >> it was back in 1993. >> and what luck. i mean, it's just -- i can't imagine. >> just so heinous there. we're going to talk a quick break. much more on this. if you have comments, questions, theories on this, as we see again, as we bring it home, the cute grin of an 8-year-old. what he went through before he died.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we're continuing our conversation. and it is a difficult one. about the brutal death of 8-year-old robert manwill. there he is, this little guy. here's what the indictment alleges, that his own mom and her live-in boyfriend tortured and beat this little guy to death. we're taking your calls. lucy's with us in michigan. hi, lucy. your thoughts here? >> caller: hi. how are you? >> hi, lucy. >> caller: you know, i'm from michigan, and we just went through the situation with the little girl that was missing here where the mother had a boyfriend living with her. it's the same kind of a situation. i don't know if you recall. just recently, as a matter of fact. >> nevaeh buchanan? >> caller: yes. yes. i don't understand what it is with women that bring these men into their homes when they're raising their children. you know, she shows her face on

tv and knows that she had murdered this child. and the audacity of it just makes me sick to my stomach. but when are people going to learn that when they bring men in and men bring women in that they're not always good for their children? >> thanks for the call, lucy. i can hear your passion, and i'm sure many viewers share that. don, you look at his history, talking about daniel ehrlick jr., off and on in jail, seven years, battery, burglary, where is child protective services? and especially when you throw in the fact that she fractured the skull of her own 9-month-old, the mom here. >> exactly, mike. where is child protective services? i mean, somebody had to see something. we talk about protecting and look out for our neighbors and our family and so forth. where are the family members here also? did they not complain? did they not know what was going on? and what about the neighbors? i don't care what kind of community you live in. somebody knows what's going on. and to let somebody be hurting and harming kids in that way and

you don't say anything about it is just absolutely wrong. somebody has to stand up and say no, we've got to put a stop to this. >> let's get back to greg hahn, local news editor "idaho statesman." any neighbors talking about melissa jenkins as mom or daniel ehrlick jr. as a caregiver for robert or his brother? >> well, absolutely. we talked to a lot of folks before the arrests were announced, and a lot of people had actually decent things to say about the boyfriend. he was a very -- he was at least visibly, on the outwardly, a father that was interested in the younger son. you know, they had this baby. and it turns out he wasn't even -- he wasn't the biological father of that child, either. >> right. >> but you know, again, went through the effort early on to become that. and in fact, when the baby was taken away from them, made sure that he was, you know, on the list, helped paying support while he was in the foster system. so he was sort of exhibiting some. she was strict. depends on who you talk torque whether she was kind of strict or overly strict. but again, that's the outward stuff. who knows what happens --

>> go ahead, mark. >> mike, what's so frightening in these cases, unfortunately because i see them every day in the criminal justice arena, is you can't usually predict that someone is going to be harming their child. they put on a face. you know, the devil has a pretty face. you don't know what's going on inside the house. however, in this case what's different is we've got that prior act of violence against her own child. and i say there's two types of people in this world -- those who can harm their own child and those who cannot. she was in category a, and that requires a greater scrutiny on her parenting skills. >> real quick, let's go to the phones. sharon's with us in indiana. sharon, your thoughts? >> caller: yeah, i actually have a couple of them. hello, by the way. >> hi. >> caller: i think it's absolutely disgusting when a woman who decides that this man is right for her plays victim. >> yeah. >> caller: in the case of her own child like she's innocent -- >> sharon, we've got to run. but a mom, her own flesh and flood little boy dead, and she's going to hide the crime.

more "prime news" coming up.

welcome back. an anonymous writer slamming a model online, calling her psychotic, a skank, words is vicious the case made it to court. well, the judge ruling the model can get information about her tormentor. you know, i think it's a good thing. people think they can say and do whatever they want online. i think there should be consequences. good. what do you think? call in. 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. huge developments in wealthy florida couple's brutal murder. first we're learning their special needs son, little boy, actually watched the bloody attack on the parents. he describes mom and dad's chilling screams, the masked gunmen, the last moments of byrd and melanie billings' lives. plus this -- new speculation on an outrageous motive involving a gang of shady used car salesmen, possible links to the mexican

mafia. we're going to hit all that for you, take your calls as well. 1-877-tell-hln's the number. welcome back, don clark, former fbi special agent in charge, and also with us, rob williams, morning host of news radio 1620 in pensacola. all right, rob, let's start with the child here. it's just heart wrabreaking to details. two-two bad men wearing masks mingz and said "you're counted to three struggled. you as well. he his mom, melanie billings, got shot in her shirt. rob, how old is this child? what is the -- >> 10 from what we understand. of course, this is all in the evidence released monday, that 700 pages of material put together by the prosecution, part of the discovery process. but all of these reports -- and as i said, 700 pages.

stuff is still being unearthed. but that's one of the really tough passages you go through. but mike, understand this. the prosecutor will decide will he want to use this 10-year-old autistic child -- and i don't know the kid's capacity for communicating. he'll have to make a very tough call. is this child going to be able to sit on the stand? is he going to be able to deal with a cross-examination from a defense attorney who is just going to hammer do you recognize my client, do you recognize my client every time they put this on trial. and don't forget, this whole thing is on video. every movement he describes is all on video. the family is fighting to keep that -- well, i guess off the internet and keep that out of the public record until they can't do it anymore. >> let's pick up on that with don. don, a couple of things off that, taking off from what rob's saying. i mean, how delicate is it to question a child? and a child with autism here. let's start there. >> right. mike, it's extremely delicate when you're dealing with kids.

number one, you've got to be careful that you're not leading them to tell you what you really want to hear. so you've got to get the setting properly. you've got to get the kid set up so they are specifically answering your questions. make sure it's videotaped. make sure you've got witnesses in the room. and not throw out those questions out there. that's going to cause the -- that you're going to be leading the kid. because that's going to make them very nervous and they're going to want to give you what you want to hear. >> so rob's second point there, do you think the videotape will be enough? and the little guy's testimony won't be needed in court. >> you would probably think that. don't forget, the video made this case. that's why they had the break within 48 hours. they knew red van, they found red van, they got the guy that owned that, and then the rest of the -- all the other arrests followed within 48 hours after that. the whole thing's on video. sheriff david morgan, you've had him on your show before, said you see it and you know it's coming and it's a shock and it's

still a shock. they can likely extrapolate which of the guys in black was which based on the way they walk or determining their height, that sort of thing. i think it's going to be real probable. and of course we haven't heard the results of things like gunpowder residue tests on gloves and shirts and that sort of thing, which certainly will reveal the shooter. >> don, you concur with that? >> yes, i do. and there's also another option here too, which is to use what you get from the little guys as lead value as opposed to looking for it as testimony, get that information and then that develops the leads and then you may be able to get a different type person to testify. >> got you. let's get a call in. joseph's with us in florida. joseph, your call or question sneer. >> caller: i just want to say my prayers go out to the family. i don't see how they can do that in front of that 10-year-old child and know how that 10-year-old child's feeling. i just don't see how they can do that in front of him. >> we're talking about some bad men here, to say the least. joseph, thanks for the call there.

and before the break let's hit on that. rob, we've got the alleged mastermind, leonard gonzalez jr.'s telling a story now that a gang, the way he's putting it, of used car dealers, they didn't like byrd billings, wanted him dead. is that what he's saying? and that a guy named cab tice came up to him and said all right, do the job, kill byrd billings. is that what he's saying? >> a very, very convoluted story that probably changes every time it's told or every time it's heard. supposedly, pat -- we call him pad gonzales, gonzales the younger. justin, the billings' child, who is an estranged child, he said he acted as a hit man for various used car dealers around pensacola to maybe strongarm people into making their car payments or other people that disappeared -- >> rob, more on this after a break.

welcome back to "prime news." here's the story. two employees at best buy tackle a thief, shoplifter trying to get out of the place. so they go after him. well, they get fired. they broke store policy that forbids contact with shoplifters. basically, you're supposed to just let them go. now, i know it's to keep workers safe and bystanders safe, but isn't firing a little harsh? deep down they were trying to be loyal employees, do the right thing. what do you think? we'll take your calls on that at 1-877-tell-hln. and we'll take your calls on this story as well. and here's a warning. you can't just say and do whatever you want on the internet and get away with it. case in point. an anonymous blogger created a site called skanksinnyc and it featured pictures of a model,

liskula cohen, and the blogger called her some painfully vicious names here. it's tough for me to say them. all right? believe me. psychotic's one of them. skank's another one. that was a year ago. well, this week a judge ruled that cohen has the right to learn the identity of her online bully and ordered google to release it. i think that's a good thing. there should be consequences for that kind of garbage online. taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about it, liskula cohen, the model here that we're talking about who had to go through all that. her attorney's with us as well, steven wagner. also with us, perry apptap, a security privacy and cyberspace lawyer. liskula, i want to start with you. you get the e-mail address for this person. have you had contact with them? did you have a conversation? what were they doing and why? why were they going after? >> i don't really know why she went after me but yes, i did have a conversation with her. >> what was said? >> i asked her why she did it.

she didn't really have a reason for me. and i told her that if i had ever done anything in my life to her to deserve that that i was sorry. >> did she or he apologize? it's a she, right? >> she didn't. no, she didn't. >> did not apologize? >> no. no. >> was she insulting again as you spoke or was pretty silent and didn't want to talk at all? >> she was pretty silent. didn't really have a lot to say. sort of could hear the nervousness in her voice. >> okay. i'll ask your lawyer this one. steven, are you going forward with a defamation lawsuit, or has this ended the conversation? >> no, no, it's not ended. we're going forward with the lawsuit. >> liskula, i've got to ask you this one before we delve into larger issue ramifications here. what made you stand up and fight? because there's a lot of garbage online, and personally i don't like it. i'm glad you did stand up and fight because i think there should be consequences. but what made you take a stand here? >> i was grossly offended, and i stood up for what i believed was wrong.

>> plain and simple. steven, did you all along think we've got a good case here? >> well, i started out by just trying to get google to provide the name so we could contact the person. and asked them to take the site down. said that they would give court order. with up as well. were very fortunate to get a very favorable decision. a stern, clear decision from the judge. >> yeah, i'm glad you won. i'm surprised you won. i mean, you're going after google. and there's large ramifications here. are you surprised at all that you won? >> i'm not surprised at all that i won. >> okay. let's -- >> we had a good, strong case. >> am i surprised? >> yeah. both of you. liskula, are you -- >> no, i'm not surprised at all. i believe that justice madden

did what she felt was right, and i believe the general population also agrees with me. >> let's bring in perry, security, cyberspace lawyer. arewhat are your thoughts on the ruling? >> this is nts a surprise. we've been bringing these actions for 12 years, and sometimes the sites will put up a fight and sometimes they won't. we need to recognize, though, they weren't really suing google. they were suing google in order to get the information. and google won't turn it over without a subpoena or valid legal process. and if you read their privacy policy, they'll tell you that. so they needed to sort of cover their own butts on turning that information over. >> now, the blogger's attorney said this about the ruling, that it has potentially damaging implications, and i'm quoting here, for free speech on the internet. perry, do you agree with that? >> this is ridiculous. free speech has to do with what governments can regulate. people can't do things that they have to be held accountable for online or offline. this isn't a free speech issue. this is holding somebody accountable for potential defamation, and it's just finding out who they are. this happens thousands of times

a day on all of the service providers right now. so this case is only important, i think, that a, we're giving this woman justice, but aside from that it's important for everyone to understand that if you need justice you can reach out and find out who's behind that blog and who's behind that hateful post just as easily. >> that's good. i think it's great news. let's get a call in, see what some of the folks are saying. cynthia's with us in michigan. hi, cynthia, your comment or questi question here? >> caller: hi. i have to agree. i definitely believe it could be a potential for something worse than heckling somebody online. it could be a potential for stalking and a potential for some sort of violence, and i absolutely agree, they should be -- our rights should be -- our rights should be protected, not the heckler. >> exactly. guys, let's take a quick break. when we come back, much more on this. we'll just get more phone calls in on this and continue to talk to the major players here. here's the number, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our conversation about a victory in court for a model who was slammed online. there was a site, skankyest in new york city. her name was out there. she was called all kinds of horrific names. it went to court. she was able to find out -- google had to give up the e-mail address doing that. i think that's a good thing. there should be consequences. we should be able to call out people if they're doing wrong. let's go to the phones. bobby's with us in texas. go ahead. >> caller: i just want to make one thing perfectly clear, first of all, is i do agree there should be consequences. but i know where i live in texas there's a talk show host that this man wrote some vicious things about this man's family, terrible things.

none of it was true. and he took him to court, and the judge threw it out, said you're a public person, they can write whatever they want to. >> got you. okay, bobby, thanks. let's go to the lawyer. steven, i think a lot of people hearing this story says, okay, what does that mean for me? if someone's writing -- not just me personally but anybody out there, someone's going online, blasting away, calling someone all kinds of names. can we all call that person to the carpet or whoever's doing it? >> no. one of the hallmarks -- in fact, one of the things the court did in this case was made preliminary determinations that this was not simply an opinion, that it was a factual statement that was being made and therefore could be disproven as false. if somebody has an opinion, that's not actionable. what happened here, though, is the blogger, the anonymous blogger went so far over the line in calling liskula cohen horrible names, as you've mentioned, that you know, we were able to demonstrate on each of the standards that the court

might have been concerned about that she had been defamed. one of the interesting things about this case is that the standards, the anonymous blogger is trying to say that trash talking, using words like "jerk" or a whole string of words is not actionable and therefore should be permitted. but it's not just the word. it's the context. and also whether the reader or the person who is -- the language is addressed to, for example, the audience right now, would think that i was stating a fact or an opinion. >> okay. i want to get perry in on this. perry, the judge quoted a virginia court ruling, i believe, basically that the case dealt with nameless online taunters should be held accountable when their derision crosses the line. who decides the line? >> well, the line is ultimately determined by the jury at the end of the day. this is just making sure that you know who to sue, you know who to get discovery from.

this is just we think you did something wrong, we need to know whour, we'll sue new court. ultimately, the jury's going to decide whether there's liability. but when you're looking at talk show hosts, like the last caller had indicated, you have to look at a different level when someone is a public figure or a politician because we're used to getting a lot of people who harass us. but if you're an everyday person, even a model, you're entitled to be protected from people who are defaming you or harassing you. if new york had a better law on this one, this might even be criminal. >> okay, guys, we've got to leave it there. fascinating conversation. perry, stephen, thanks so much. liskula, congratulations to you on winning here. we'll talk again soon. thanks. now this story. plain and simple, the mayor of milwaukee is a hero. coming to the rescue of a woman screaming for help at the wisconsin state fair. then he was brutally beaten, lost a couple of teeth, has his hand shattered, but tom barrett says he has no regrets. he's now out of the hospital and speaking publicly about the attack for the first time. let's bring in our "prime news" correspondent, richelle carey. richelle, what did he have to

say today? >> he says anybody would have done it. that's what he says, mike. he's got a cast on his arm, cuts to the back of his head. he had to have staples. a gash on his face. all right? he's downplaying all this. the mayor's 55 years old. he says he's not a hero. he says when someone yells "call 911" that's what you're supposed to do. >> someone's yelling "call 911. call 911." and there was a woman holding a baby. and our immediate thought was there was something wrong with the baby. within seconds we realized the problem was not with the baby, it was with the man. and he came up and was very, very agitated. >> police say this guy was 20 years old, he was drunk, he went on to beat the mayor with a pipe, and actually also ended up finding out that he was the father of the child. he was apparently angry because he wasn't allowed to see the child. as for the woman and the baby, they're all doing fine. >> impressive.

>> heroic, no doubt. >> no matter what he says. >> richelle, thanks. how about this one in was this heroic? two employees at best buy, they chased thieves, tackled one of them, end up getting fired. they broke the store's policy forbidding contact with shoplifters. you should just let them go. not worth it. we need to keep everybody safe. but did they have to lose their jobs? was the firing too har snsh we'll take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln.

police in california are searching for a former reality tv contestant, wanted for questioning in the death of a former swimsuit model who at one point was his wife. this is a sad story. jasmine fiori, 28, her body was found in a suitcase in a trash bin saturday. she was in a relationship with

ryan jenkins, had a vegas wedding. the marriage was later annulled. but at the time of her death they were still an item. now he is nowhere to be found. going to get the latest on this. i bring in my colleague jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues with jane velez-mitchell" coming your way at the top of the hour. so ryan jenkins. do authorities know where this guy is right now? i believe he's from canada. is that where they think he's going? >> he is from canada, and they believe he could be headed to the border, back to his native turf. now, a fascinating angle here, tmz is reporting that they spoke to his publicist and his publicist said hey, he's talking to his attorney and he will ultimately cooperate with authorities. well, guess what? if you're watching, the time to cooperate is now. and they are looking for you. you are considered a person of interest, and they want to talk to you about this horrific death of your girlfriend. some say it's your wife. but the marriage was annulled. but this young woman, who was found strangled, stuffed in a suitcase, and then tossed into a

dumpster and what's really interesting, mike, is that tmz got some new reports out here which cnn cannot independently confirm, but they're reporting that this guy has a history of assault that dates back to 2005. he was convicted in 2007 in canada. so that's interesting. and that apparently he was sentenced to 15 months probation and mandatory counseling for psychological domestic violence coping skills and told to attend treatment for sex addiction. >> wow. >> that's interesting. >> and correct me if i go astray with the timeline, jane. the two were supposedly at a poker tournament, i believe in san diego, friday night and then saturday night he reports her missing. but i think her body was found saturday morning. right? >> well, what i understand is that he reports her missing and then vanishes and disappears. and what's really interesting about the pocker pa ee ee eer p

saturday night is according to tmz text messages could play a crucial role, that aparentally the victim texted an ex-boyfriend and indicated she might be going to las vegas to see him and then this ex-boyfriend got another text that said -- this is a little graphic. but this is what it said. "suck it." okay? and police think that he may have taken the phone and been upset by her plan, seen the text message and he may have text ed that kind of graphic two-word text to this ex guy. >> and we're also getting from tmz that there's another roommate. so it was jenkins and fiore living together and a third female roommate. female roommate reportedly from tmz talking and quoting, she says he talked to her and said, "i should have known something was up when she was going to run errands and left with all of her packed suitcases in our car," meaning she could have been ready to hightail it and maybe he wasn't going to have any of

it, jane. >> well, look, he hasn't been charged with anything. he deserves a presumption of innocence, but it is odd. he disappeared. authorities are questioning whether or not authorities are questioning maybe whether he's switched the license plates and he may be in this black mercedes that he switched the plates on. so this is the classic motive for doing something like this, jealousy. and we don't know if that's what he did or why he did it, but certainly this is a bizarre case and you have to wonder why somebody with his background would be a tv show -- reality tv show star. >> yeah. let's get specific with that. he was on a vh1 reality tv show series, "megan wants a millionaire," and one of his claims, he molds girls into princesses. >> he also claimed to be a multimillionaire with a net worth of $2.5 million. we shall see. rich people have crossed the border before. you remember the case of a cosmetics heir who fled to

mexico after a series of rapes and mad dog chapman, i believe, was the one that caught him and brought him back. >> "issues with jane velez-mitchell" coming your way in less than ten minutes. thanks, jane. one's a great debate topic. two employees at a best buy, that's what we have at the heart of this. a shoplifter comes in, he's got a guy waiting outside, he takes off with some goods. the two employees from best buy, one of them, anyway, runs after him, tackles him. things don't stop there. this shoplifter has a knife, as the manager comes in, the manager gets cut. what happens to the employees at best buy? they get fired. there's a zero tolerance policy. you let the shoplifters go. what do you think of that? i think you reprimand them, suspend them, but the firings' too harsh. they're loyal employees. ñññ