shocking new revelations in the jaycee dugard kidnapping an excruciating time line detailing the first hours, days and months after the 11-year-old girl was abducted. police say it was years before rapist phillip garrido even let her out of his backyard. plus a bold armed criminal dubbed the bulletproof bandit has now hit 11 banks across multiple states. his latest heist a branch in illinois. he makes no effort to hide his face. police even know his name. why can't they catch this guy? we'll take your calls, as always. the number 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail me at

cnn.com/primenews or shoot us a text message, start your message with the word "prime" your chance to be heard. >> controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." >> welcome once again. for the first time we're getting graphic details just released of the minutes after jaycee dugard was abducted, the girl walking to her school bus stop just outside of her home doesn't get any more innocent than that picture an 11-year-old girl heading to the bus stop. police say that's when she came face to face with convicted rapist phillip garrido and then the living hell she endured for 18 years began after that. we'll take your calls as always 1-877-tell-hln is the number. joining us to talk about it criminal defense attorney michael cardoza with one-of-a-kind information we'll get to you in just a minute. >> sure. >> also remy spencer, another criminal defense attorney and also brenda waite, criminal psychologist. all right, michael, a source close to the investigation,

right, telling you knew details. >> yes. >> so, what happened minutes after jaycee was abducted, what do we know. >> well, it actually happens before she's actually kidnapped. the day before, phillip and nancy garrido, this is according to what nancy tells the police, they went out what i call child shopping the day before. they are out in a car. they are looking for a victim to kidnap. and when phillip garrido saw jaycee, he said that's the one i want, she's cute, i want her. and at that time, nancy was talking about, hey, there are a lot of kids around. we can't take her right here. we'll come back. so, the next day, in fact, they do go back and there is jaycee at the bus stop alone. that's when they kidnap her. they get out of the car. they force her into their car, down to the floorboards, they threaten her and off they go. now, they go straight away to antioch, california, where the

garridos lived and they put her in the backyard. they put her in the tent or one of the buildings in the backyard. they keep her there for approximately three to three and a half years before they let her come out into the public. and you can well imagine what went on during those three and a half years. the sexual abuse that had to have been taking place and the brainwashing that was going on. now, what happens after this is, you know, after 18 years and he's finally caught, jaycee is going to meet her family for the first time. and my source tells me, at that time, as they're preparing for this and you've got very seasoned grizzly police officers that are very used to the emotion of murders and things like that. but, they said they could never have prepared properly for this. jaycee asked, before she went into the room where her mother was and the family ended up, she

asked the police, please this is between us. please all of you stay out. let us get together alone. and she went into that room. but outside the room the police officers could hear what was going on and they said they've never, ever heard anything quite that emotional. brought some of the seasoned veterans to tears. one of them, from what i understood later said, you know, i got to be talking to a psychologist or a psychiatrist about this. i didn't think it would touch me this deeply. and touched in a good way. it certainly gave all the officers a good feeling about their job and, you know, their fruits of the labor that they went through in getting jaycee back. so, that was a good thing. one person -- and this was a group of people were outside one day and they've since moved out of concord, california and they've gone somewhere else with jaycee and her daughter so that she can begin the healing

process and talk to the psychiatric and psychological experts, it's my understanding one of the officers went in one day and was looking for her and said, where's jaycee, i don't see her around here? and one of the officers sort of laughed and said she's right there. he said, oh, my god. she looks ten years younger, she looks great. and psychologically, she seems up. now, it certainly will be up to the psychologists and psychiatrists to tell us if that's only temporary. but, by all outwards appearances she's doing really well. and literally has changed appearances and looks about ten years younger. >> okay. that is -- i was taking notes furiously as you continued michael. i've got to ask you who is your source, is it numerous sources, because again this is one-of-a-kind information. where did you get it? >> i -- i've -- i laugh because you know, in the news business, you guys never give up your sources. >> right. >> and -- >> but we have to skimplts for

you to ask me. sure, and you have and i think impliedly i'm giving you the answer that i can't tell you. it is people in law enforcement. >> okay. and close to the investigation. obviously, with this kind of intimate detail. we can leave it at that. right? okay. >> fair enough. fair enough. >> yeah, right. touche on that front. this is just -- one of the details, i'm not sure if you went over it or not when we talk about, you know, you've laid out some positive details, as well, about the reunion and how well she's doing and we heard that, as well we talked about it yesterday "people" magazine giving us the quote how happy jaycee is and a skri tryst and psychologist all saying how wonderful that is, so far so good in her reacclimating to a new life but backtracking to ga ree do, when he gets out on -- or, no, parole violation, excuse me 1993 for the marijuana violation. nancy garrido then becomes, she becomes the sole warden of jaycee, correct? >> she does. that is correct.

he was, if you recall, he was sent to prison for 50 years by a federal judge. in those days, they became eligible for parole after ten years. he became eligible for parole and the parole board let him out which, of course, begs the question, what were you guys thinking? how could you do that? and then, they compound that evil with not telling the victim of that rape and kidnapping that garrido was out. so, certainly they've tried to explain what happens but most people are not having any part of that. notwithstanding, when he's let out on parole, then in '93, he gets picked up, as you say for a marijuana violation. but during those four months she, nancy ga ree do, the wife is watching jaycee. now, if not then, when was she going to turn her in or turn this whole plot in if, in fact, nancy had nothing to do with it? and i think that answers the question of a lot of people when they say, well how is she going

to be punished? she was under his spell. >> come on. >> she was afraid of him. no no no no. she had a chance and put herself first and refused to turn jaycee. it's my belief she should be punished equally with phillip garrido and never see the light of day. >> it sounds from your account and others she was as guilty, equally culpable in this. >> no question. >> we'll take a quick break. more with michael and we'll talk with our attorney remy spencer about the trouble nancy garrido could be in and the mind-set what was going on with jaycee at 11 years old for this to begin and, also, the first detail michael came with, child shopping? we'll take a break and take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln.

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welcome back to "prime news" continuing our conversation some startling revelations, michael cardoza, criminal defense attorney former prosecutor in san francisco joining us. he has a source not confirmed by cnn but michael cardoza's source with some intimate details of what has gone on with jaycee dugard from the day before she was abducted, back in 1991, fascinating details about phillip and nancy garrido child shopping, looking for a child to abduct according to michael cardoza's source. he seized jaycee dugard and says to nancy, his wife, that's the one. that's who they want. i want to bring in dr. brenda wade, clinical psychologist. doctor, we could go an hour with you as we dissect some of these details here but starting with nancy garrido, how does a wife

help her husband child shop? what -- >> you know, clearly -- >> how do they get to that place? >> -- the level of dysfunction is almost beyond imagining, mike. i would say in a normal case of a woman with a child molester or rapist we would say, gee, she's co-dependent. she's beyond that. she's co-dependent on steroids. i would say she's not only co-dependent but a sociopath that, somehow in her mind, she could justify going along with this guy's twisted plan to abduct and then rape and maintain as a prisoner an innocent child. so, here we have somebody where the sociopathy says i have no conscience about this, somehow i justify it, hurting another person doesn't register for me. everything is this person and what he wants, what he needs and he is my total focus in life. that is so disturbed. >> well put there. let's bring in our attorney remy

spencer. remy, okay, we've focused a lot obviously on jaycee's recovery phillip garrido, notice hitting on nancy garrido here. i mean, she is equally culpable isn't she when we hear these type of details she's in as much trouble as phillip, isn't she. >> absolutely, 100%, she will be prosecuted under the same laws as her husband. whatever defense she might have wanted to pursue in this case will be negated by the fact, as we've already discussed, you've already discussed on your show, for a period of months, she was the only person there responsible for this po poor victim. she can't in any logical, reasonableable or believable way assert some defense she was under the control or dominion of her husband. >> i've got to go back to dr. brenda wade, as michael laid out the detail from his source that poor jaycee, again that innocent picture of an 11-year-old girl walking to the bus stop from her house, she's abducted,

immediately threatened, pushed down to the floorboards of a vehicle and driven straight to antioch where again the 18-year hell began. what's going on in the mind of an 11-year-old at that point, brenda? >> you know, it's beyond majing. once again, to think an 11-year-old, who loses everything. because, at age 11, remember, the brain isn't complete so she has no capacity to do abstract thinking, to imagine, in some way, what is going on. all she can feel or think at that point, with an 11-year-old's brain, is this is horrible, it's terrifying. there's no way out. i'm trapped here forever. and that is part of why, in addition to the fact the garridos made sure she didn't get out, she could never run for it, she could never get out because, at that young age, her mind now took on a program and that program is, i'm a prisoner, i'm a victim, i'm helpless, i'm hopeless. these people who have's abducted

me now become the people i have to depend on for survival. do you see the irony? >> yeah. oh -- >> they're abducting me yet i depend on them. >> michael the clock is ticking on us. from your source did garrido have this backyard compound already laid out and planned when they went to abduct who ended up being jaycee? >> you know, i didn't actually ask that but i assume that from the way the conversation went that, at least part of that backyard had already been built and was ready for his victim to be brought there. you know what's interesting, too, parenthetically, keep in mind about nancy, where she met phillip. nancy was visiting her uncle in prison. that's where she met garrido while he was serving that first ten years that he'd gotten on the previous kidnapping and rape. so, she certainly knew what a bad guy he was. >> married right there in leavenworth. >> you know, if i may -- >> that doesn't surprise me. that doesn't surprise me because that is so consistent with the

personality type that she seems to have. >> if i can jump in here just briefly. >> real quick remy, there are so many tragedies in this case, obviously jaycee's ob ducks is the worst becan't overlook the fact this gentleman was on supervision, law enforcement was charged with the responsibility of monitoring him so something like this couldn't happen. the fact it does shows we need to re-evaluate what our parole boards, what our probation officers are actually doing so we don't see this in any other cases. >> so many missteps along the way. guys, thanks so much. michael, remy, bren today, we appreciate it. and coming up, the crime situation, a story that has so many baffled a graduate student at yale set to get married this coming sunday. has basically vanished, seen going into a building on the campus there at yale. that's the last anybody's seen of her. sfx:racking of a taillight.

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welcome back. sunday school teacher accused of brutally raping and killing her daughter's 8-year-old playmate remember the heart-breaking story of sandra cantu, her body found in a suitcase from april. today the woman accused melissa mu huckaby faced a judge. now strange behavior behind bars, as well. richelle, update on that one. >> a few minutes ago prosecutors announced they would seek the deh penalty against her. also in court today she requested a new attorney and we're told kind of a little reaction though she smiled at her family. also sometime today a judge is expected to rule on when her case will go to trial. that's all the legal stuff. from august

half hour later an her bed with mattress with blanket around her neck. she was taken to a safety cell. minutes later she refused dinner. for a little bit of perspective, remember she was said to be suicidal before she was arrested that day sandra cantu's body was found, that was april 6th. court documents reveal her ex-husband said melissa had swallowed three razor blades. back then she told a local reporter she was in the hospital for internal bleeding. well, remember, 8-year-old sandra cantu vanished from her mobile home park in tracy, california. there's surveillance camera video we have seen quite a bit.

happy child skipping to her friend's home right before she was raped and killed. now, there is a gag order in this case. prosecutors have not revealed a motive or exactly how san drap died. mike? >> all right, richelle, thanks for the update on that front. a bride-to-be vanishes a day before her dream wedding. friends say she was excited lee, 24 years old last seen entering a building on campus video. her fiance, family, friends are now worried sick. >> she left her pocketbook, her cell phone, everything in the lab. she didn't go home last night. her fiance, she's getting married sunday. her fiance hasn't heard from her so everybody's pretty worried, pretty scared. >> set to get married sunday. so, what could have happened to anniemarie le? that's coming up. uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

10:00 a.m. tuesday. >> the last we've seen of her. >> that's it. >> what about surveillance video showing anybody leaving that building, anything from that. >> the implication is that the fire alarm in that building went off about mid-day on tuesday and, with the rush of people exiting, it's lard to really make that out, from what we understand. that's where perhaps we lost track of her. >> okay, so fire. was there a fire or was it a suspicious -- did that alarm go off in a suspicious -- >> it was a false alarm but what's unclear right now, this is something hopefully we'll be able to find out soon is what precipitated that alarm. >> okay. key point there. bringing in pat, what do you make of this, one hears she's set to be married sunday and simply vanishes there from yale. >> very unusual one because police have to look at all the different possibilities whether

she, herself, decided just to run away because she didn't get married or wanted to stage something to get a lot of attention like jennifer wilbanks, the runaway bride or whether her boyfriend was around and she went out with him and got in a fight and he did something to her or someone else she knew or a complete stranger. they of a all these avenues. i'm sure they will look for fingerprints -- which could lead to something maybe somebody trying to get her out of the building or was she trying to get out of the building. they have to check out all of the possibilities. >> first off, the fiance, has he been cooperative, what we know about him. >> we understand from the authorities he has been entirely cooperative and a university official told us today he is not seen at all as having a connection to the disappearance. >> okay. what about was she happy, was she -- i mean, from what -- the cursory research i've done it sounded like she was excited to get married. are you getting anything different? >> yeah, that's the thing.

really excited the last thing you would expect from a person like her. >> pat, where do you go next? >> mike, i think the most unusual thing this happened during the day. had this happened at night where she left her things in the one is not when a stranger would decide to abduct somebody. so, there seems to be has to be something with her specifically, somebody she knew or something she was involved in. >> okay. thomas, pat, we appreciate it and will keep following it and continuing to follow this one not the update we wanted to give you. the brazen bank robber -- look the brazen bank robber -- look at that, no stocking cap, he's

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>> what if we could get out of here altogether. >> a clip from the summer block busser, the flick about john dillinger who bra zenning robbed banks without masks 1930s now could has have a copy cat someone who robs banks and mugs for the camera. police say he has a rap sheet for armed robbery. he was just released from jail last year. now cops say he's hit 11 banks since may.

his latest target just yesterday a bank in caseyville, illinois. we'll take your calls on this. 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it reformed bank robber-turned-lawyer joe loya and also kevin keithly a special agent for the fbi working this case and joining us from caseyville, not with us yet but we hope to get the police chief from this site of the last robbery but to kevin keithly, fbi, following this. do you know specifics about what happened there in illinois, kevin? >> i do. unfortunately, yesterday, it appears now to be his 12th bank robbery, which is -- >> number 12, okay. >> you know, unfortunately, he is still out there, able to evade police at the scenes. so, certainly, we're coordinating our efforts with our state and local counterparts to get this guy into custody. >> kevin, any details? did he threaten anybody, did he rough anybody up, anybody get hurt, what happened here. >> well, his m.o. is pretty --

has been similar throughout since -- and that includes entering the banks, showing a handgun, threatening use of it and then demanding money and fleeing from the scene so even though he has not committed any actually fired the weapon so far, he certainly has that ability. >> okay. let's bring in joe loya, reformed bank robber. joe, you can give us the unique perspective here, the mind-set of this guy. no stocking cap, he's not trying to hide himself. what's he going for here, is this a guy who loves the attention? >> i don't know that he loves the attention. he certainly loves the drama of bank robbery. you know, it's important to remember, it's interesting you started off talking about "public enemies" because i watched "public enemies" a couple months ago when it came out and i'm 20 years from robbing banks i robbed them in 1988 and i robbed a lot of them. one thing i will say when

watching that movie i was reminded of the bank robbery of bank robbery like i say 20 years away, have a child and totally reformed but i still recall the rush. there is a reason the hollywood hunk has played a bank robber. it's a sexy crime. when i committed it, i felt powerful, i was getting paid it for. it's thrilling, it's an adrenaline rush, i was never into drugs but the bank robbery. i think he's just into the thrill of it. remember bank robbers, criminals in general, they don't really think about posterity and the future and protecting their future, if they did they wouldn't commit crime because they're going to prison, the way that story ends, so he has nothing to protect. he's not really caring about the future and i don't think he really is -- i think he's just really excited about it and doesn't care about what's going on. >> if he's watching us right now, is he enjoying the attention? >> absolutely.

absolutely. this is -- you know, when i was in prison and probably after the fbi agent and the police officer could also attest to this, when you go into a criminal's house after you arrest them, you're always going to find the same seven or eight cds in there you're going to find "casino" "good fellas" the "god father" "heat" they are learning to be cinematic criminals part of what this guy s. he is going in there, loves the attention, loves "public enemies" and "heat" it's a thrill. in the national consciousness bank robbery like i said is a sexy crime. what is also surprising nobody -- they haven't caught him yet. i think one of the reasons is when i got arrested i was released on bail but when i got out, good people, good citizens, they would come up to me and say, hey, at least you are robbing banks, not a murderer, a rapist or child molester. i was given some is latitude for being a bank robber from people

because they all thought the same thing, banks are crooked, bank -- money's insured so i think that -- >> you were -- >> i understands that is out. >> back to kevin keithly working this for the fbi. back to the base question. we have a picture of this guy and know his name. what is it so difficult to catch him. >> certainly we've been able to gather a number of leads based on the pictures that we've shown in the media. but, it's a matter of finding this guy at the right place at the right time and certainly he's ghon strademonstrated the o travel pretty much across the country at will. so, it has been a difficult task to find him in a particular location. >> kevin, do you think he's getting some help? have you heard anybody that's come alongside of him? to joe's point, i guess part of the romance of helping a bank robber for lack of a better term. >> not to get into -- >> that's the right term. >> -- detail about our

investigation but we believe se being assisted by others, which, you know, in this instance, has -- >> makes sense. >> -- helped him get away from particular zones. >> -- j.d., i'm sure everybody got a good look at him. you did get any other details about what happened, any threats to anybody? >> no, everything was pretty much straightforward from our initial investigation. we have determined that he had been in the area at least an hour and a half prior to committing this crime, based on surveillance cameras in other retail outlets in the area. >> joe, let's go back to you. do you think -- as you watch this guy and you see the pictures and we're telling the stories here, do you think he will become violent? do you think he's going to hurt someone, shoot someone? where is this going? >> my -- yeah, i -- i think that -- i think that there's a good chance that this could end badly, it could end very violently. but, i -- i think the way it's

going to end probably is that somebody's going to give him up and they're not going to give him up because he's a bank robber. they are going to give him up like this woman he spent two weeks apparently somewhere i think maybe it was in tennessee and when the police came to investigate her, he had her children inside and he threatened to kill them and then she said she didn't know where he was. he was inside. she came the next day and said, listen, i couldn't tell you about him. but, he's threatening her children. the person who is going to turn him is going to be because of some violence, some ugliness that has nothing o to do with the bank robberies, i believe. it's going to be a girlfriend, a friend -- somebody if fe this going to turn him in a brother-in-law who gets angry at him for some argument that's the way it will end, i think. >> joe fascinating to talk to you, kevin, jd, you guys as well as we continue to follow this story. going to change things up a little bit. we know there's a lot of anger on capitol hill but when our own president is heckled by a

lawmaker, i mean, we've got south carolina representative joe wilson yelling out basically president obama is lying calling him a liar. hey, you can argue and debate the president all day about health care, whatever. but, we don't do that in the halls of congress, come on. call in. 1-877-tell-hln. hearts happy... ...and big hearts happy too. because as part of a heart healthy diet... ...those delicious oats in cheerios can help naturally lower cholesterol. (cheerios spilling) cheerios. how can something so little... ...help you do something so big.

welcome back to "prime news" ellen dejen russ, the newest judge on "american idol," we know her comedienne, talk show host not music or singer. what do you think, good move for the show? imagine that chemistry. simon cowell and ellen. we'll talk about that in a little bit. call in 1-877-tell-hln and we want to hear from you on this, as well you know the number an outburst really appears to have overshadowed much of president obama's speech last night on health care, disagreeing with the president, that's fine but, come on, don't call him a liar

in the halls of congress. here's the part of the president's speech where south carolina representative joe wilson basically turns into a heckler. >> there are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. this, too, is false. the reforms -- the reforms i'm proposeing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> you lie! >> it's not true. >> there you heard it "you lie" wilson has apologized for his outburst and says he was caught up in the moment. we'll take your calls 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about it welcome back republican strategist sherry jacobus and democratic strategist maria cardona. sherry, no matter the politics, joe wilson was wrong here, flat-out right? >> yeah. that was behavior unbecoming of a member of congress, to be sure. and even though there was obviously millions of americans

yelling "you lie" or something like that at their television sets last night because the president was wrong on a number of points in his speech, it was something that a member of congress should not do on the house floor with the president speaking, something he can take up later with press conferences and the other activities. >> right. let's. >> he was correct in what he was saying but terribly incorrect in doing it in that manner. >> now i'm sure maria will take issue with that and we'll get to her if a second but let's listen to the apology today again here's joe wilson. let's hear what he had to say a day later. >> last night, i heard from the leadership that they wanted in he to contact the white house and state that my statements were inappropriate. i did. i'm very grateful that the white house, in talking with them, they indicated that they appreciated the call and we needed to have a civil discussion about the health care issues and i certainly agree

with that. >> okay. there's the apology. personally, i think his statement last night was better than that apology. i don't think he needed to mention that the leadership it sounded almost like the leadership told him to, the night before he was better in saying, here was his statement this evening i let my emotions get the best of me while listening to the president's remarks. i extend sincere apologies to the president for this lack of civility. so again the statement i think better than the sound piece today. mar marie, your thoughts, was that apology enough. >> i think the point is you hit the nail on the head in the beginning was that has absolutely no place in the chamber where the president was giving his speech last night. i've been in washington a very long time and others i've talked to who have been here even longer have said they don't recall and i certainly don't recall any other time with this kind of behavior during a joint session speech to congress by the president by either party. of course there, is you know, what you have is a couple of members from either party will either not applaud or, you know,

look away or, you know, very subtle images like that but not the heckling and certainly not the lack of civility and utter lack of respect that congressman wilson showed last night. i'm glad he apologized but you're right today's comment from him made it sound very insincere and it sounded like the leadership, at least the way that he said it, made him do so i think that takes a little bit away from the statement that he made last night. >> yeah, not a good move. >> no, you know, i got to disagree with that. first of all when he democrats booing president bush several years ago when he was speaking to the joints session i think on a social security issue and have seen this type behavior but to call the president a liar i think is what people really take issue with but democrats have been equally as rude. also, with regard to congressman wilson's statement last night, that was obviously his from the heart, probably didn't take a lot of time to draft it. he probably shaved a little bit having the leadership pressure him to it again sounds like he's a pretty independent thinker and really doesn't like to be pushed

around that much and, you know, that's probably one reason why he's in congress. it could hurt him as well but -- >> don't you agree the statement was better? when you apologize to somebody you don't want to say well they made me do it, basically the first line of that statement. >> and he essentially apologized the night before and so he was fine on his own. he probably didn't need a nudge from leadership and probably didn't want it, which i kind of have to admire, myself. but one thing i would like to note that's come out of this initially at the beginning of today we saw democrats just gleeful, they wanted to censure this congressman and wanted to make a big deal about this but something happened, a lot of fact checking on the president's speech from last night and that became the issue. and they can make a hero out of congressman wilson if they go after him too hard. >> okay. we'll have more on this. we'll let marie respond to fact checking and give you both equal time on that front. we want to hear from you, what do you think really zoning in on the outburst here call in 1-877-tell-hln. úapapa 75% of kids don't get the recommended amounts

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continuing our conversation the outburst from republican representative joe wilson, president in the middle of his speech joe wilson blurts out "you lie" now he has apologized. want to hear what you are saying about this, a couple e-mails in. anne in oregon writes we are not japan or great britain where this type of outburst is accepted nor i do think we want to be. he who shouts the loudest hears the least, in my opinion. this from michelle in georgia. you go, joe, finally someone isn't afraid to stand up. joe wilson did nothing wrong. he said what a lot of people were thinking. i only wish more had stood up and given us a voice to. that point, michelle, i think sherry said it, there is a time and place to argue and debate the president in the middle of a speech not the time to do it. let's listen real quick to president obama, here's his comments after what happened and after the apology.

>> yes, i -- yes, i do. i'm a big believer that we all make mistakes. he apologized and i'm appreciative of that. >> i want to get you both in on this. you know, you can argue and debate the president. what joe wilson did, i think, hurts republicans who want to battle on health care. maria, i'll get your thoughts, and sherry, you follow. >> i think that's absolutely right, mike. i think it takes away their credibility. i think it also does one other thing, which we have seen in the donations of congressman wilson's opponent in south carolina. this guy has raised tens of thousands of dollars since last night. it has unified democrats. not just in that race, but i think nationwide. basically in the feeling, how dare you treat our president like that. i think they're right to feel that way. they're showing that today with their support of congressman

wilson's oh poent and showing their outrage as they should. the president was right in accepting the apology and let's move on. the bigger thing here is the health care reform and how important it is to pass that for all americans. >> we've got about 30 seconds. i think it puts republicans on their heels, at least in the short term. how do you regain your footing? >> i think in the first part of the news cycle today, yes, but joe wilson is becoming somewhat of a hero. saying that this is a budget -- deficit neutral bill. he goes $230 billion into deficit spending in the first ten years according to the congressional budget office. he did lie about that last night. people are angry. and if joe wilson is punished by nancy pelosi and the house, he's a hero. he's got donations coming in, too. >> but most say wrong. there's a time and place. that wasn't it. we've got to run. more on ellen on "american idol" coming up. ÷

>> all right. there you go. millions watch the show. want to know what you think, good or bad move.úx here's the phone number, 1-877-tell-hln. call in. joining me to talk about it, tim molloy, managing editor tvguide.com. good or bad for the show? >> well, we actually took a poll today and asked our viewers what they think. they think this is a good judge. 44% think she will not. 13-piece want paula back. 13% are still pulling for paula to the extent that they just want her back. >> here's some questions i have in this. i mean, chemistry, how is she going to mesh, let's start with simon cowell? simon, mr. mean. i don't think ellen likes mean. that could get a little ugly, don't you think? or is that good tv? >> i think what paula kind of did and what ellen is extremely

good at for 15 years is putting people at ease. and i talked to my mom about this, and my mom said sometimes the show is almost uncomfortable to watch it gets so tense with the things simon said. ellen is the person to calm it down. >> you've got to love what mom says. you've got to start there. you tonight think it's going to get uncomfortable when simon and ellen have exchanges? >> ellen has been putting people at ease for years and years. when she came out, it was such a big deal.úx now no one really cares. she's ellen and she's very friendly face. she's very much a people person. >> it's been on, what, eight years? do you think this is a good move overall to shake things up a little bit and brings in a big personality like this? >> what's surprising and it comes out of nowhere, it's never bad for television. >> what about kara? fans suspect on kara to begin with. nice enough. i think still think getting her sea legs under here. how is she going to mesh with

ellen? >> she kind of brings the musical expertise. and ellen said she really doesn't have that musical expertise, aside from being a rockin' dancer. they, together, i think will offer a mix of friendliness, and musical chops. >> does the show need a shot in the arm, do you think, tim? >> it can never hurt. the judges don't really matter that much. it's really trying to see these kids meet their dream. getting to see people sing songs that we love. it doesn't matter so much who the judges are. >> i also hope that ellen, i mean, we want ellen to be funny and out there, big personality. we still want to zone in on the singers for the most part, right? >> yeah. her job to some extent is to make a couple jones and put people at ease and stay out of the way and watch their show. >> tim, appreciate it. tim molloy, thanks so much.ú÷ we have new compelling details just in to us at hln. hearing for the first time what jaycee dugard, what she went through 18 years ago when she was just 11. what nancy and phillip garrido

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insured by united healthcare insurance company. call now for youfree information kit... and medicare guide and find out... how you could start saving. shocking new revelations in the jaycee dugard kidnapping. an e cruciating time line unveiled, detailing the first hours, days, months, after the 11-year-old girl was abducted. police say it was years before rapist phillip garrido even let her out of his backyard. from a bold armed criminal dubbed the bulletproof bandit. he did multiple banks. we know his name. we see his face. why can't we catch this guy? we're going to talk with a former bank robber. stick around for some unique one-of-a-kind insight. only he can delve into that mind. call in on any topic you linl, 1-877-tell-hln is the number.

e-mail us cnn.com/primenews. send us a text, just send it to hlntv, start your message with the word prime. it's your chance to be heard. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com welcome back. i'm mike galanos. for the first time we're getting graphic details just being released the minutes after jaycee dugard was abducted. the girl was walking to her school bus stop, 11 years old. doesn't get any more innocent than that. that's when police say she came face to face with convicted rapist, phillip garrido and his wife. then the living hell began. it turned out to be an 18-year hell for this young girl. we'll take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. michael cardoza, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. he has a source bringing this excruciating time line. also with us, clinical psychologist, dr. brenda wade. all right, michael, let's go

back to the beginning, and the first detail you brought us. i want you to bring the viewers up to speed here. phillip and nancy garrido went child shopping. that's where it all began. go ahead. >> that is where it all began, michael. the day before jaycee was actually kidnapped, phillip and nancy garrido were out in their automobile, and they were combing the area child shopping. they were looking for someone to kidnap. when they passed a group of little girls, they saw jaycee there, and phillip said, oh, that's the one i want. she's cute. they decided to come back the next day to look for jaycee while she was alone. in fact, the next day they did come back. they saw her while she was alone. and they kidnapped her. they took her right off the street, put her into their car, forced her to the floorboards of the car, threatened her. and then drove her out of the tahoe area, down to antioch,

california, where we've all seen the compound there. they put her in the compound. and they kept her there for three to three and a half years without letting her get out into the public. and you can just imagine what had to go on during that three, three and a half-year period. >> let's get dr. brenda wade in on this. first off, i think what hits you on nancy garrido's front is, how does a wife sit there as her husband goes, that's the one? and he's talking about an 11-year-old girl? >> this woman is so fascinated, like somebody who's addicted to a substance, who can't let it go, who can't take their attention off of it. she's what we call a co-dependent. that's somebody whose life is so focused on the other person, there's nothing left of them. but she's beyond that. most co-dependents have a real conscience. she's not only co-dependent, she has no conscience. that makes her a sociopath. she would do anything to please

this man, right or wrong, and hurt an innocent child in the process. >> and that's what happened. let's go back to michael. mike, i've got to ask you. i'm sure a lot of people wondering, who's michael's source? i know you can't reveal it specifically. but what can you tell us about the source and we'll move on with more details. >> it's someone in law enforcement that knows about the investigation. and you know as a reporter, that reporters and people in news like yourself would go to jail before you give up your source. so that said. >> let's pick up the story, michael. so she's driven straight to antioch. the backyard compound is ready for her. and how long is she in this backyard before she sees the light of day? >> she's in the backyard for approximately three to three and a half years before they let her out into the public. i can only imagine that that's how long that it took to brainwash her, to make sure that

she wouldn't go to the authorities, and so that phillip could have his way with her and do the despicable things that he did. it's three and a half years. of course, the children were born later. and that adds an entirely different dynamic to this. i guess that's the one that really gets to me, because i have young girls. and you can only imagine the dichotomy of thinking they must be going through. because phillip dugard -- or phillip garrido is their father. and he's taken from these little girls. and i'm sure they don't see him in the same light that jaycee saw him. so what must they be going through psychologically. and how are they going to recover from this. >> that's a great question. let's ask that to dr. brenda wade. >> yeah. >> because they're just finding out that jaycee is not their sister, but is mom. how do two young girls 15 and 11 process this?

there's a picture of them at a party, by the way. >> it's going to be so difficult for them to make sense of this, especially the 11-year-old who, again, the brain of a child isn't completed until we now know as late as 21 to 24. so the capacity to do abstract thinking, to think it through, and to deal with these overwhelming feelings. i hope and pray that jaycee as well as the two girls are in intensive psychotherapy, that they're going through a recovery program, so that they can begin to forge an identity. because their entire identity has been shattered. and they're going to have to piece it together bit by bit, as well as imagine the feelings, imagine the anger, imagine the confusion that they're going through. it's an incredible process. >> yeah. let's get a call in. lisa's with us in indiana. lisa, your comment or question here? >> caller: where were these children born? >> from what we understand, i'll go to michael, there in the

backyard compound. he had a soundproof shed. we're speculating that they were -- that's where they were held, right, michael? >> they were held there. and it's my understanding, this did not come from my source, but from someone else, that nancy garrido had some nursing skills, and that she helped in the birth of the little girls. now, i don't know how true that is. but that's what i've heard. and that does make some sense, that that's how it happened. >> you know, as we continue on with this time line, michael, we know that phillip garrido violated parole, marijuana violation, 1993. so for a matter of months in there, nancy garrido is basically in charge. it was just jaycee at this point. >> that's absolutely right, michael. just to catch viewers up on what happened, he, phillip garrido, had kidnapped somebody before, and had raped them. he was convicted of that, and he

was sentenced to 50 years in prison. in those days, they had to serve ten years before they became eligible for parole. at the time he became eligible, he went to the parole board, and for god knows what reason, they let him out. begs the question, what were you guys thinking, or were you thinking at all. anyway, they let him out of jail. during the time he's on parole, he picks up a violation for having drugs, marijuana. >> right. >> they put him back in prison for four months. during that time, nancy garrido, the wife of phillip, is in charge of jaycee. does she turn them in? go to the police and say, hey, here's what happened? no. my question, if not then, when would she do it. perfect opportunity. he's in prison. which proves to me that she's complicit in this, that she was knee-deep in it and she was looking out for herself.

i can imagine, and the doctor probably can help us here, but she's probably protecting herself. fine, phillip, if you're going to focus on jaycee, it takes the focus oh off me, nancy. so what nancy was doing was thinking of herself. >> equally culpable. >> clearly thinking of herself, clearly. >> and brenda, what about that? at any point do you think it clicked into her mind, let's let this poor girl go? or do you think -- >> no. absolutely not. as michael has already said, she would have done it while he was in prison. the other thing i want to raise in terms of the recovery of the children and jaycee, as i understand it, none of them have been to school. so on top of all the emotional and psychological issues, we have just pure ignorance of what the world is all about, or what is going on in today's world. they're completely ignorant. it's like somebody who's grown you have in a cave somewhere, suddenly being thrown out into the moesh world. and there's a case of arrested

development. our brains and our personality are like muscles. if you don't exercise, they don't grow. so i would say in some ways, jaycee and the girls are probably like, you know, infants at this point. >> in some ways. >> haven't progressed past that point. >> from the counts jaycee did the best she could. the resilience of young jaycee to turn into mom and teach these girls what she could, that's an amazing story. let's take a quick break. when we come back, more with michael as he relays information from his source. we've got new details about the reunion between jaycee and her mom. could someone toss me an eleven sixteenths wrench over here? here you go. eleven sixteenths... (announcer) from designing some of the world's cleanest

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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we're getting new details about jaycee dugard, really the hell she began living back in 1991, 18 years ago. and also, we're going to get the details about the reunion between jaycee and her mom. some good details there we're happy to report. in the meantime, let's get a call in. patricia in california, go ahead. >> caller: hi, mike. i'm sure glad i got through finally. i have a comment and a question. the comment is for you personally. thank you so much for the way you present the news with all the jaw droppers and bomb shells. such a pleasant voice. it's a pleasure to listen to you. >> thanks, patricia, i appreciate that. >> caller: i appreciate your values also. my question is, did they determine who the bone belonged to that they found in the yard and have they found any others? >> thanks for the question. and again, the comment. what we know is the details we found out yesterday, a small bone fragment likely human. that's all we know. it's undergoing extensive dna testing. and we're going to continue to follow that on a day-to-day

basis, what we can find out when this bone might have been there. you know, all the details. male, female, we'll continue to follow that and wait for those results to come back. let's get back now to the new details we're getting. michael cardoza is with us, has a source close to the investigation, talking about the reunion now. let's talk about that, michael. again, these are good details that we're hearing. the reunion between jaycee and her mom. what can you tell us about that? >> they are really wonderful details. it happened in concord, california, at a hotel. and when they were -- the police were putting the families together when they were bringing jaycee in to see the family for the first time, they were at a hotel. and prior to going into the conference room, where they were going to meet, jaycee asked the police to let her be alone with her mother, and the family, because it was such a personal thing. and of course, the police acquiesced in that and let that happen. now, prior, the police had prepared themselves for an

emotional meeting. they knew it would be emotional. but almost to the person they were saying that they never, ever in their wildest dreams thought it would be as emotional as it was. and we can all well imagine. but, you know, it went way over the top, in a good sense, in a very, very good sense. and it really touched the officers that were there, brought veterans to tears. one officer said, you know, this has touched me so deeply, i really want to talk to the -- a psychologist about this. and it made them all very proud to be police officers. because they saw the fruits of the labor of being able to put somebody back together. so that was all very, very good. and then later on, when they moved jaycee and the girls, one of the officers, to show you and tell you about the progress of jaycee, one of the officers went in looking for her one day, and

was saying, hay, where's jaycee, i need to talk to her. walked right by her. and one of the others was saying, turn around, there she is. he said, oh, my god. you look ten years younger. you look vibrant. it's incredible how you look now. and she's articulate. she's smart. and i know the little girls were kept under wraps, but by all accounts, they have the where withal to certainly catch up quickly in school. and jaycee apparently tutored them through the years. they may be behind, but there's great hope that they'll catch up. >> what a strong resilient woman. and again, michael, we thank you for those wonderful details. brenda, michael, we appreciates it. it. a graduate student at yale vanishes. she was set to be married on sunday. oubl triple, or even quadruple points when you pay with your mastercard card. triple-a members can get even more. better values, best western. for details,

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welcome back. sunday schoolteacher accused of

brutally raping and killing her daughter's 8-year-old playmate. remember, heartbreaking story, little sandra cantu, her body found in a suitcase, dumped in an irrigation pond back in april. facing a judge in california. now we're hearing about her really strange behavior behind bars as well. let's go to prime news correspondent richelle cary. >> a lot happened today, mike. just a few minutes ago, prosecutors announced they will seek the death penalty against melissa huckabee. also in court today, she requested a new attorney, and we're told kind of a little reaction there, she smiled at her family. also sometime today, a judge is expected to rule on when her case will go to trial. that's all thely stuff. we're also getting new details about huckaby's behavior while she's been in jail. strange things last month. here's the report from august 12th. custody officer wrote this. i found huckaby laying on the floor next to her bed.

she said she felt dizzy and passed out. half hour later, an officer wrote this. i saw huckaby sitting next to her bed with a trash can. when i asked her what she was doing, she replied, i took pills. then august 16th, 4:45 in the afternoon. this is what a report said. inmate huckaby hiding behind the mattress with the blanket behind her neck. she was taken to a safety cell. minutes later she refused dinner. remember, huckaby was said to be suicidal before she was arrested that day sandra cantu's body was found. that was april 6th. court documents reveal her ex-husband said melissa had swallowed three razor blades. back then she told a local reporter she was in the hospital for internal bleeding. well, remember, 8-year-old sandra cantu vanished from her mobile home park in tracy, california. there's surveillance camera video. seen it quite a bit. happy child, skipping from her

friend's home right before she was raped and killed. there is a gag order in this case. prosecutors have not revealed a motive or exactly how sandra died, mike. >> all right, richelle, thanks for the update on that front. a bride-to-be vanishes days before her dream wedding. a ceremony friends say she was excited about, had been planning for a year.@@ annie marie lee, graduate ú student at yale, 24 years old.ú she was last seen tuesday on campus surveillance video entering a building. family, friends are worried sick. >> she left her pocketbook, her cell phone, everything in the lab. she didn't go home last night.@@ her fiance, she's getting married sunday, her fiance hasn't heard from her. everybody's really worried, scared. >> set to get married sunday.@@ what could have happened to lc annie marie lee, that's coming up.no rs are working from the road using a mifi-- a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wi-fi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation.

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hopefully find out soon, is what precipitated that alarm. >> key point there. let's bring in pat. pat, what do you make of this one? set to be married on sunday and she simply vanishes there. >> it's a very unusual one. the police have a problem because they have to look at all the different possibilities of whether she herself decided to run away, because she didn't

want to get married or whether she wanted to stage something to get a lot of attention, like jennifer wilbanks, like the runaway bride. or she went out with the boyfriend and they got in a fight. or someone else she knew or a complete stranger. i'm sure they're going to look at that building, are there fingerprints, if it was a false alarm, if it was pulled, are there fingerprints that could lead to something. is she trying to get out of the building or somebody trying to get her out of the building. they have to check out all the poebltsd. >> thomas, let's hit on a couple points. the him? >> we're told by the authorities that the fiance has been entirely cooperative. a university official told us today that he is not seen at all as having a connection to the disappearance. >> what about, was she happy? i mean, from what -- the cursory research i've done, said she was excited to get married. are you getting anything different? >> we talked to colleagues and @ friends of hers at the med ú

school, and from everything she said, she was really excited ú about the wedding.ú she had been planning it for a  year, and she was really an ú upbeat, outgoing person, with a big personality, and this is the last thing you would expect from a person like her. >> pat, where do you go next? >> i think the most unusual thing is this happened during the day. if it had happened at night that she was just going to run next  door to check on something and  running across a dark parking ú lot, i would go with immediately some stranger abduction.ú and that can happen to a lot of women.ú you grab a dollar and go down t the drink machine, a creepy are of the building and you get ú abducted. but this isú so strange becaus it's the middle of the day. this is not when a stranger would decide to abduct somebody. it has to do with her specifically, something she knew or something she was involved in. thomas, pat, we appreciate it. we'll keep following it. and continue to follow this one. not the update we wanted to give you. the wrazen bank robber of the we've got it.@@ look at that. there's no stocking cap.'t

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i wonder if we can get out of here. >> want to take that ride with me? >> yeah. >> there you have it. the clip from the summer blockbuster, about john dillinger, who brazenly robbed banks without a mask, 1930s. now we could have a copycat on our hands, somebody who likes to rob banks and mug it for the camera. loves the attention. like dillinger, not trying to hide his face. there he is. police say chad chapner has a rap sheet for armed robbery. he was just released from jail last year. now cops say he's hit 11 banks since may. his latest target, just yesterday, a bank in caseyville@

illinois. we'll take your calls on this, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it, reformed bank robber, turned author, joe loya, also with us kevin keithley, a special agent with the fbi working this case. joining us from caseyville, not with us yet, we're hoping to get the police chief from that last robbery. let's go to kevin keithley, fbi, following this. do you know the specifics about what happened there in illinois, kevin? >> i do. unfortunately, yesterday it appears now to be his 12th bank robbery. >> number 12, okay. >> unfortunately he is still out there, able to evade police at the scenes. so certainly we're coordinating our efforts with state and local counterparts to get this guy into custody. >> kevin, any details? does he -- did he threaten anybody? did he rough anybody up? anybody get hurt? what happened here? >> his m.o. is pretty -- has been similar throughout,

since -- and that includes entering the banks, showing a handgun, threatening the use of it, and then demanding money an@ fleeing from the scene. so even though he has not committed any -- actually fired the weapon so far, he certainly has that ability. >> let's bring in joe loya, reformed bank robber. joe, you can give us the unique perspective here. the mind-set of this guy. no stocking cap. he's not trying to hide himself. what is he going for here? is he a guy who loves the attention? >> i don't know that he loves the attention. he certainly loves the drama of bank robbery. you know, it's important to remember, it's interesting you started off with public enemies. because i watch public enemies a couple months ago when it came out, and i'm 20 years away from robbing banks. i robbed them in 1988, and i robbed a lot of them. one thing i would say, when watching that movie, i was remind of the thrill of the bank

robbery. and like i say, i'm 20 years away, i have a 3-year-old child and i'm completely reformed, but i still recall the adrenaline rush. there's a reason every hollywood hunk the last 50 years have played a bank robber. the last 70 years they played a bank robber. it's a sexy crime. when i committed it, i felt powerful. i was getting paid for it. it's thrilling. it's an adrenaline rush. i was never into drugs, but i was into the bank robbery. i think he's just into the thrill of it. remember, too, criminals in general, they don't really think about posterity, the future,