commit crime, because they're going to prison. that's the way the story ends. so he has nothing to protect. he's not really caring about the future. i don't think he really is -- i think he's just excited about it and doesn't care about what's going on. >> if he's watching us right now, joe, if he's watching us right now, is he enjoying the attention? >> absolutely. absolutely. you know, when i was in prison, probably the fbi agent and the police officer can also attest to this, when you go into a criminal's house after you arrest them, you're always going to find the same seven or eight cds in there. you're going to find casino, you're going to find goodfellows, the godfather. what they like about the movie is they're trying to learn how to be cinematic criminals. this guy is going there, he loves the attention, he loves public enemies, he loves heat. it's a thrill. in the national consciousness, bank robbery is, like i said,

it's a sexy crime. what was very surprising also is that nobody's -- they haven't caught him yet. i think one of the reasons is when i got arrested, i was released on bail. when i got out, good people, good citizens, they would come up to me and say, at least you're robbing banks, you're not a murder, rapist, child molester. i was given some latitude for being a bank robber from people because they all thought the same thing, banks are crooked, money is insured. so i think that -- >> so you were -- >> he understands there's that out there. >> kevin keithley has been working this for the fbi. let's go back to the base question. we have a picture of this guy. we know his name. why so difficult to catch him? >> certainly we've been able to gather a number of leads based on the pictures that we've shown in the media. but it's a matter of finding this guy at the right place at the right time. and certainly he's demonstrated the ability to travel pretty much across the country at will.

so it has been a difficult task to find him in the particular location. >> kevin, do you think he's getting some help? have you heard anybody that's come alongside of him? to joe's point, i guess part of the romance of helping a bank robber, for lack of a better term. >> not to get into a lot of detail about our investigation, but we do believe he's being assisted by others. which, you know, in this instance, has helped him get away from particular scenes. >> let me get police chief caseyville, illinois, site of the latest bank robbery. j.d., i'm sure everybody got a good look at him. did you get any other details about what happened? any threats to anybody? >> no, everything was pretty much straightforward from our initial investigation. we have determined that he had been in the area at least an hour and a half prior to committing this crime, based on surveillance cameras, and other retail outlets in the area. >> joe, let's go back to you. do you think -- as you watch

this guy, and you see the pictures, and we're telling the stories here, do you think he'll become violent, shoot someone? hurt someone? where is this going? >> yeah, i think that there's a good chance that this could end badly. it could end very violently. but i think the way it's going to end, probably, is that somebody's going to give him up. and they're not going to give him up because he's a bank robber. they're going to give him up, like this woman he spent two weeks with apparently, i think maybe it was in tennessee. and when the police came to investigate her, he had her children inside. and he threatened to kill them. and then she said she didn't know where he was. he was inside. she came the next day and said, listen, i couldn't tell you about him. but he's threatening her children. the person who is going to turn him in is because of some violence, ugliness that has nothing to do with the bank robberies, i believe. it's going to be a girlfriend, a friend, somebody, if they're going to turn him in,

brother-in-law who gets angry at him for some argument, that's the way it's going to end up being, i think. >> joe, it's been fascinating to talk to you. kevin, j.d., you guys as well, as we continue to follow this story. going to change things up a little bit. we know there's a lot of anger on capitol hill. when our own president gets heckled by a lawyermaker, we've got south carolina representative joe wilson yelling out, basically that president obama is lying, calling him a liar. hey, you can argue and debate the president all day about health care, whatever.@@ but we don't do that in the halls of congress. call in, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. happening today, expert testimony from a heat ahydration expert, in the trial we've talked a lot about, a former high school football coach outside louisville, kentucky, charged in the death of

15-year-old max gilpin. he collapsed during a tough practice last august. died three days later. now the heatstroke expert testified the boy's body temperature was probably closer to 109 degrees instead of the earlier reported 107 degrees. the coach, david stinson, accused of denying players water. he's charged with reckless homicide, wanton endangerment. now defense attorneys are raising questions about the prescription drug atarol that was used to treat his adhd. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about it, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, randi spencer. rene, let's start with the heat expert, douglas kosa from heat and hydration issues at the university of connecticut. now, he's a prosecution witness. ha did he come with? >> one of the key things he said today is what you mentioned

earlier in the intro there, that he suspects that max gilpin's body temperature was closer to 109 degrees when he collapsed out there on the football field. when he was taken to the children's hospital here locally, his temperature registered at 107.4. he also walked the court through all of the steps that could have been taken to stop the heatstroke, to help max gilpin survive that heatstroke. he said heat strokes are 100% survivable if all of the proper measures are taken. a lot of the things that he talked about, like submerging someone in an ice bath, that measure was not taken with max gilpin. also very interesting towards the end of the day, we heard from two different doctors at the children's hospital here in louisville who treated max gilpin, and they say, they gave conflicting reports about whether or not he was fully hydrated. one doctor said she did not believe he was dehydrated. and another doctor said what he was treating him for was dehydration, shock and heatstroke. >> conflicting testimony there. let's bring in our attorney,

remy smith. as you hear this, what's more damning to the coach, that max may not have been properly treated after he collapsed, and the body temp could have been 109, or the conflicting reports from the doctors at the hospital where max gilpin went? >> i'll tell you, both of those things are good news, in my estimation, for the defense. >> why is that? >> when you start debating whether the proper medical treatment was given, when you start debating what is the proper medical treatment, you're not talking about criminal liability. you're perhaps talking about civil liability. but it's a far cry from a homicide charge. this case has the potential to change the entire landscape of our criminal process and procedure. we have to keep in mind that the standard for a homicide, or in this case a reckless homicide, means that the coach should have, and that is, the state must prove that the coach should have done something different. or that he should have known

that he was exposing these players to a risk of death. no coach could reasonably, in my estimation, be pushing their students to try harder in practice, thinking in the back of his mind, that he was -- someone was going to die. i'm sure that the defense is going to flush these things out. and the more they make it about the medicine, the less it's about the criminal culpability. >> one heat that the heat expert had talked about was just how hard this practice was. how hard they ran. let's listen to that. >> is it objectionable to make the kids keep running gassers after vomiting? >> it would not be wise, because that's an indication there's a heat illness. >> he talked about that. and also the quote that we have here is no coach in america should have 40 minutes of conditioning without a mandatory break. what about that, remy? 94 degrees heat index at least and you're running sprints without water for 40 minutes. >> look, that sounds really tough on these students.

or these players.úp as a former athlete myself, i know it's the job of the coach to push their athletes. but does that, by pushing them, mean that the coach had in his wildest imagination, ever thought that one of his students was at risk of death? i mean, reckless homicide is typically when we see drunk driving accidents, where there isn't that specific intent. in a case like this, i think that the prosecution is going to have a lot of trouble showing that tough high legal standard. >> right. they do have an uphill battle. let me say this. having played some football myself. 40 minutes of wind sprints, or gassers as they're calling them, that's what they did, that's a long time in that kind of heat. i mean, normally you run sprints at the end of practice, 15 minutes. 40 minutes, that is borderline dangerous here. >> absolutely it's borderline dangerous. but you know what, at the end of this trial, the defense is going to get up, they're going to make closing arguments and they're

going to probably say to the jury that you didn't leave your common sense at the door. ask yourselves, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, did you think, do you believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the coach thought at any time he was risking their lives. because it's that indifference to their death that would equal a conviction. >> okay. remy, renee, we appreciate it. we'll continue to follow this one for you. coming up, an open microphone reveals eye opening sordid details. we have a representative, california, married, father of two. open mike, admitting some wild sexual exploits. that's great.

i want to warn you, this next story is not for kids. get them out of the room. the details pretty gross. you're about to hear a

politician talking about an affair with a mistress. actually, he's bragging about these sexual exploits. california assemblyman said all of it without knowing a nearby microphone was on. as a result, he's resigned. said his comments were simply inappropriate story telling, not an admission to having an affair. come on. the microphone's on. fess up and go away. spanking? bad girl? you're not even going to admit it now? he even went on to claim he has another mistress as well. our affiliate says both women are lobbyists. duvall, conservative republican, self-described family values

politician. different kind of family, i guess. married, grown children, we know that. joining me to talk about this, my colleague jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues with jane velez-mitchell" coming your way in less than ten minutes. the guy doesn't have the decency to admit this and go away. he calls it inappropriate story telling. >> i guess that means he's a liar, too. why is it always the family values crusaders who end up getting trapped in these really salacious scandals? what struck me, we couldn't even play the worst parts of it. there are some parts of this that are so graphic that we could not play them at all. they would be one big bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. this was very, very detailed stuff that he was saying about women and their private parts. i'll just put it that way. >> all right, jane. wish we had more time. we got to run. >> that just about said it all.

>> that's a little of what's coming up. jane will be watching. "issues" coming up minutes away. ellen will be a judge on "american idol." what do you think of that? we'll take your calls and e-mails. good move or not?

1-877-tell hln's the number. good or bad move? lot of folks chiming in. here's what suzanne has to say. it would make sense to have ellen judge a comedy contest, but "american idol"? i can't connect the dots with this. that's a good point. i don't believe ellen has any background in singing and music. but they're going for good television, i'm taking it. let's face it, there's going to be some interesting exchanges between ellen and simon cowell and probably with kara and randy as well. your time to sound off. call in, e-mail, facebook. here's an e-mail comment coming in from arizona. taking a shot at ellen's dance moves and lack of rhythm. here's another one coming in. jamie g. on facebook.

so you wonder, this show's been on for eight years now. does it need a little shot in the arm? ellen versus simon, might be some good television. probably be a little more biting than ellen versus paula. we know that could bring some interesting moments, intriguing moments, baffling moments. here's another one. this is desiree s. on facebook writing this. i don't know about that. you know, "tv guide" has already done a poll on this one, good or bad move. 44% say good move, 44% say bad move. 13% want paula to come back. so there's hardcore fans out there, paula fans, still skeptical if this is going to work. a light soundoff for you today as we speculate whether or not ellen coming to the show, good or bad.

we'll see. how is she going to interact with simon, that will be interesting. they're making news. they're on the show. at least some publicity never hurt any show. all right. coming up, "issues with jane velez-mitchell." more on the politician busted for talking about spanking his mistress, doing it on open mike. and the guy won't even admit it now. give me a break. jane's got that coming up. see you. úúkruse: if you have a d

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