chavez. that will be followed by president obama at the congressional black caucus foundation dinner. ♪ ... .

>> so, i did some research since there has never been a senate historian emeritus what about parking and what about an i.d. card. it was a great honor. i will cherish it to my dying day. they also agreed to open the senate chamber calories during the time that the senate is not in session. that had always been the case for 142 years until 9/11. it is one of the unfortunate consequences of 9/11. the galleries were closed when the senate was not in session. i had this quiet campaign to try to get that reversed, to follow the historical pattern. apparently, what they did was to agree to open the calories during the month of august. it turns out that the house

calories are being closed for renovation. it worked out very well. i am hoping that the galleries will continue to stay open when the senate is in recess during the hours at the capitol building is open. one disgruntled tourist, some years ago, said that they did not care if they were in session and they just wanted to see where they were spending their money. i used to come in there, even when i first came to washington as a student, just going in and sitting in the empty chamber calorie and listening to a tour guide explained, in great detail, what goes on there. >> the house had their galleries open during recess. what was the reason? but i have no idea. >> how do you campaign to open the calories up? >> i mentioned it to various people that might be interested.

many of them are uniformly saying this is outrageous. why would they do that? why would they first 142 years of openness which is key to the very fiber in most cases. it was just a matter of getting it all together. i am hoping that the occasion of my retirement might spur this on to make it a permanent arrangement. it perhaps will be. >> we have talked many times on this network and for those who have never seen you before, we need to get down to basics. what was your first day as senate historian? >> september 2, 1975. my boss, the secretary of the senate, frank valero, other people applied for the job and so maybe i had a little leg up. he said to do what ever it is

that historians do, but do its part got smart. i stole a lot of library files. there were more than happy to turn those over to me. the senate library was the only source of historical information for the 20th century prior to that time. the librarians were a creative bunch, but there were happy to see an office created for historians to take on the burden. >> your last day? >> august 31. >> how many days was that? >>i found something i never kne. i am not sure anybody made a big deal out of it. we were a compatriot in the senate office.

he told him about, and i am not sure if you know this story, the sam ervin verses ted kennedy story. you know that story? >> i do. when watergate first became evident as a scandal in 1973, senator edward kennedy realized this was going to be big and that the senate, with its longstanding traditions, should set up an investigative committee to get to the bottom of what nixon was doing. the senate majority leader also recognize that. fred bolero didn't. he said it would blow over. we needed to put this into a very stable hands. not that edward kennedy wasn't, but we do not know where he would go with that. sam ervin was said to be the guy for the job he was chairman for

the senate government operations committee, it was called back then. this is government operations. so, he was reluctant to take the job, and finally did and the rest is history. >> so what did senator mansfield see what frank valero didn't? >> i think -- i am not sure. it is hard to get inside his mind. i think he wanted something that would be very methodical within the senate's institutional leadership structure. i think he saw sam ervin as possibly the right person for the job. this had implications for television. the senate, as early as 1947, began televising its hearings.

i remember the crime hearings and the mccarthy hearings. this had all the makings of a big show in the caucus room of the senate office building. >> it would have clearly been a different deal if it had been senator kennedy in those years, back in the '70s, purses sam ervin. >> the senate was dominated by seven members. all of the power was full of southern senators. irvin was one of them. they needed to get a majority of the senate to agree, if the house impeached president nixon, to go ahead with a conviction. >> is there any way to describe how you have done your job? in other words, if we followed you around a 24/7, how did you

learn -- for instance, did you write all the one minute historical minutes? >> there are several versions of historical minutes. when bob dole was majority leader at the time of the bicentennial of the senate in 1987 and 1988, he began each day's session with a senate historical minutes. we worked with him very closely on those. there were 200 words, at the most. then, in 1979, senator tom-ol daschle, i had a conversation with him about the history of his office and he said he did not know a lot of that. he said that he thought his colleagues would like to hear some of that in the democratic caucus. he said to try out for a couple

of weeks and he had no idea what i might do to embarrass myself and everyone else. for the next wellpoint five years, thanks to senator-a daschle, there were brief. we get people's attention. you could not imagine a harder audience than a roomful of united states senators that have 15 things on their minds and so forth. over the years, i made them longer, in the tradition of the senate, you needed a few more words got up to 450 words. over the last 12 years, i have written them myself. i was the guy that was or to stand up and speak them so you had to have your own pacing and tempo. i read over 300 of them and then we put 200 of them together in

the book. >> you were thinking of yourself when you wrote this one. this was from 1921-1940, senate sacks sergeant at arms. the fire the sergeant at arms do you remember that story? >> he was a long time washington reporter. he took on the job as a sergeant at arms lay in his career. -- late in his career. he had to help with the inauguration in 1933. several senators died at the time he had to take care of their funerals. he did an interview with a journal about what he has seen over his long service in the senate, 30-40 years. he said that the senate had changed. most centers these days are not crooks -- most senators these days are not crooks.

he said that in a positive spirit. >> in 1933? >> that is right. his reputation was that this article would be published after he retired. the editor thought that develop such a great article that they put it -- that it was such a great article that they put it in. this is any staff members terrible nightmare, anybody who talks to the press, all of a sudden the senate called him before the chamber. he is the sergeant at arms. he is supposed to be responsible for the decorum in the chamber and all of a sudden he is the subject. the haul him in there and asked why he did this and that he was fired. that was before his natural retirement. the senate was changing parties. >> the senate is not in session,

so they cannot fire you. >> the interview is not over, yet. >> he explained, explained-"quo- has anything changed? >> are you kidding me? a lot has changed, sure. this is not the senate and 1932- 1933. >> made a few specifics that have changed the whole place. >> the number one ban thing is e 24-7 coverage from gavel-to- gavel. since 1986, most americans had no clue as to what the senate chamber looked like.

their image of the senate came out of advice and consent in hollywood. it was a real communications gap that was fixed as a result of televising the proceedings in 1986. beyond that, the internet, the web, instantaneous communications. also, the enormous cost of campaigns. particularly television and media markets, and it really began to kick in in the 1960's. the senators realize it was no longer a matter of a lobbyist bringing a brown paper bag filled with dollar bills to his favorite senator and saying that

this is $200 and that it would make a difference in your campaign. now, $200 would barely 2 carfare. the senate'-- could barely get . the senate created a standard of conduct which became the senate ethics committee and the developed a senate exit -- ethics rules. the book of interpretations of those rules is that. is easier for senators to not do it by the seat of their pants and decide if they can take this money or not. they follow the guidelines. if they get off the straight and narrow, the ethics committee will look into it. charges have been made and they will have an investigation.

in recent years, those investigations have lasted an entire year. they go through thousands of documents and then the result is either a letter saying you should not have done that or that you are ok but you or your colleagues need to keep these matters in mind for future behavior. >> here is another one of your minutes. the senate considers benning dial phones. let me just read resolution. - >what are they talking about?

>> that is so good. they're talking about political compromise. they could not figure out how the dial phones work. they had their secretaries actually dial for them and then hand in the receiver when the party was on the line. the older senators wanted to go back to the old phone were you get an operator on the line and you tell the operator what you want and you are in business. there were the young ones that said that they had to be attentive to modern technology and they had to go ahead with the dial phones. basically, what they went ahead and did was compromised. the compromise was to bring in a

special kind of telephone were you could either dial or pick it up and get an operator. >> washington state senator clarence dill said about this whole business, he says the dial phone -- >> you feel his pain, don't shoot, as opposed to operating modern devices. >> i have notes of what you have written. you broke that he was history's greatest united states senator. you said henry clay was the

greatest united states senator. how you call anybody the greatest? >> john f. kennedy had that task in front of him in 19505 -- in 1955. he had to decide the greatest center. statesmanship transcending state and party borders in the dead being their definition of outstanding. >> y him? -- why him? >> they realize that he was a committee center, not a floor center. he did his work in the committees, behind-the-scenes. you did not have to force someone to vote prematurely. he was certainly the dollafathef

that. when john f. kennedy was chairman of the committee to select outstanding centers, they chose him. they pulled out scientists from around the country as to who they thought should be on those five spaces in the senate reception room wall. norris got the greatest number of votes. >> you gave us some insight in the business of how people are designated. he said -- -- you said -- who determines who is distinguished? >> primarily, publishing output. biographers who have written about senators and other public officials. back in those days, when

political history was the mainstay of a lot of departments around the country, it was easy to a tough fight with those people were. senators would throw in the name of a professor that they had in their state to this list and it started off as a fairly small list of déjà said, it got up to 160 people. >> if somebody came up to you can told you to tell them your 5 favorite historians. not senate historians, just five favorite historians. can you miss them? >> certainly, robert caro and his lbj biography would be one. david mcauliffcullough brings ld vividness and color into the story. you do not want to put his book

down even though it is 1000 pages in some cases. and then it makes you, and i am speaking for myself, you want to read collateral works. you want to know not only about john adams, and harry truman, but there could cover areas -- their contemporaries i like the work of robert mann who wrote a book called "the walls of jericho." it was about the fight for civil rights of discussion through 1965 i. he then did a more recent book. he has done an abridgement of that book for classroom use. he did a more recent book.

>> anybody else? >> i like, in terms of institutional history, i like my friend ross baker up at rutgers university who has written two good books on the senate. one was called "friend and foe in the senate." it was about the nature of friendship and the senate. he did a lot of interviews. he does not say who did what. they got into the institution. he did another book for flasch reviews called "house and senate." i like the writings of barbara sinclair, of ucla. she is a political scientist and about the inner workings of the senate. >> how is writing for you? hard, easy? >> easy, which is dangerous. it writing these historical

minutes, i usually start off with 600 words and then it is like getting rid of your children to boil it down to 450. if i know what i am talking about and i am cited -- excited about the topic, it is easy. >> how much time do you put in for 450 words? >> all lot. as many as seven or eight hours. >> what would you be doing for those seven or eight hours? >> first, shaping the subject to make it a good story, then trying to keep the attention of this audience of senators throughout these four minutes that it takes me to read it. what i'd learned, and did not do well as the beginning, his eyes should have a punchy conclusion that would leave them gasping for breath. one conclusion of one story is a

happy day for me when a senator burst out with, "oh, my goodness." she was surprised with the twist of events. >> can you remember what that story was? >> yes, it was a plagiarism story. when aaron burr left the senate in march of 1805, he made one of the most famous farewell address is anyone recalls. he said that the senate is a citadel of democracy, of law, of order. if our constitution ever is to parish, it's perspiring -- is agony would be on the floor of the senate. a house speaker was retiring, and a speech writer took the aaron burr speech and put it in their almost verbatim and the

speaker did not know that. he gave the speech and he subsequently learned it was a plagiarized speech and he subsequently committed suicide. >> what was his name? >> i have forgotten. >but hitting at that, in committing suicide, everybody is concerned about plagiarism. it can happen easily and it can happen without much thought, sometimes. despite the fact that it shouldn't. the senate realized that we have staff people writing for us and i am going to give a public speech and it could happen to me. >> is it known that he committed suicide over this fact? >> not precisely. there is a strong presumption that it was >> who was the woman senator that gasped? >> i cannot say. these are all closed door meetings. everything that goes on behind

those closed doors has to stay there. >> how many years ago dishy gasp? >> it is not going to work. >> there are 17 women in the united states senate. and i write about that? >> from 1972 until 1978, there were no women senators. >> was that gas in the '70s, '80s or 90s? >> what a person who arrived during that time? >>your not going to trick me ino that one. >> anyway, on the website, on the senate.gov website, henry clay in the u.s. senate. did you have anything to do with

this? >> only peripherally. >> do you know anything about that? >> that is a great story. >> we can show the audience while we talk about it. it includes taking your cursor and going over the painting and seeing what it looked like before they changed it and to what it is now. >> it is a great success story. and the painting itself was originally painted in 1866. it is a big, large painting of henry clay and it is commissioned by the state senate of kentucky to memorialize henry clay. there were too interested competition and this one was the loser. you can see that this probably was the better, except that the artist ignored his instructions, which was to just have henry clay in the picture. the artist had 12 other senators

in the little senate chamber. it was lost and went off into storage and ended up in a boys' school in a gymnasium. you can see the marks of basketballs that were thrown on the surface of the campus and it would crack. the historical society donated it to the senate. it was then arranged to have it preserved -- preserved and restored. several months ago, they placed it on a wall in the capital in one of the staircase is that comes down from the senate chamber. it is a great picture. it is a good web site along with it. >> why do we care about this? who paid to have it restored? >> i suspect that the taxpayers paid. it was given, at no cost, to the government. the reason it is important,

there are a lot of images of henry clay around the capital. not one as big as this. it is one of the rare paintings of the scene in the old senate chamber. there were no photographs taken in the old senate chamber before they moved out and 1959. henry clay is the iconic symbol of compromise. it is important for senators to what by that every day and realized that, particularly in the senate, that compromise is vital in a minority based institution. >> i am looking at another story where the senate censures the president. you said --

they tried to centsensure jacksn and then they did. that was not a friendly thing to do. >> he hated jackson. jackson had to do with with from government funds from the bank of the public bank of the united states. it was one of those defining issues between the democrats and it helped make the whig . party. they condemned the behavior of the president. there is no constitutional requirement to censure a

president. when the democrats got a slight majority, he made it his life's work to get that censure expunged. they literally have the secretary of the senate come in and draw and nice straight black box over the original resolution as it appeared in the senate journal and crossed a line through it, expunged by the senate this day in 1837. then the democrats went off and had a huge party. this went to the fiber of who they were as a party. there were so excited and so happy and it was coming up on the last day of andrew jackson's term as president. that this was a huge deal. >> did you ever make any senator man over the last few years? >> once. >> can you tell us that story?

>> no. >> can you give us a hint? >> it was a misunderstanding. but it is not what we are there to do. we are there to help. we are there to make information available and draw people in. it was just a miscommunication. >> has there ever been a case where the senators said they want to go out and make this statement or case and you say that they can't? >> that does not become part of our daily activity, basically. when it comes to the institutional history of the senate, there are speechwriters, staff and the centers themselves will cost us for half -- for help -- they will ask us for help. we do not go in and volunteer or look over their shoulder when we are not asked to do so. >> the first to you took the

job, how many people work in the office? >> two, we had a historian, a former photographer for the senate. he used his camera to make friends all over the senate. he was offered the job of senate both historian -- both historian -- photo historian. another eight months passed before i hired don ritchie and he has been my partner in historical mischief for the last century. >> -- last quarter-century. >> how many are in the office today? >> 9. >> that is everybody? >> that is everybody. >> they all have a story behind. >> imagine opening a door and

peaking in in looking for a meeting in having that seemed confirmed shoot -- and having that scene confront you. there they all over, the spouse's club began during world wa oner i. they continued into the 1970's and 1980's. imagine a minute of the -- a meeting of the senate spouses' club today. isn't that senator nixon's wife? >> pat is in the a permit left him corner. >> you would not see this today. who is this?

>> this is winston churchill addressing congress. because it was over the holidays, they did it in the smaller senate chamber. the place was packed. >> there are three people here, only one that i recognize in the middle, barkley. >> this was taken in the early 1940's. i think it was taken by a press photographer. pictures like that or one photography is banned. the giant and -- of the gentleman in front of them -- barkley was instrumental in having mckellar brought from his hotel apartment up to an

established quorum to cut off a filibuster and mckellar realized that was why he was being brought up. he was very angry at berkeley. as a result, he made it clear to anyone who would listen, the album barkley's desire to be on the supreme court died that day. there is a smoldering tensions between those two gentlemen. >> what is this? >> this is a photograph taken in 1963 in the senate chamber at the behest of the u.s. capitol historical society taken by national geographic photographers. there was an official photo taken in 1939, but this is the first in a series of official photos of the senate in session. the thing that strikes me the most about the picture is that

all of the senators have their backs to the camera. in subsequent versions of that total, you could be sure that all of the senators would be looking directly at the camera. >> the next one is outside the senate chamber. >> that was on the hottest day of june, 1988, during the 100th congress. there are 85 senators including robert byrd. that is reminiscent of an earlier photo made in 1874 in the same location, of all the senators celebrating abraham lincoln's birthday, of his birth anniversary. >> is that the photo that i have right here? >> yes, it is. the senators saw that picture and said that we have to recreate that. we had to do that for the bicentennial of congress. we have to get all the senators on the capitol steps to do what

they did in 1874. >> have you ever look at the change in the dress? >> yes. we have photos of almost every person who has ever served in the senate, all 190011 people. it tells you a lot about dress types. >> is available on the website qui? >> yes. >> who is this? >> that is president truman. he said they were the happiest years of his life when he was the united states senator. there he is, at the peak of his days in the senate. >> the next series of photos, it seems like i have seen a lot of it. there were taken by in new york times photographer, george stanthames.

>> there are a series of them. lyndon johnson is trying to convince foreign relations coordinator in an indirect way. lbj engineered a move to get him off of the committee, but when green resisted a little bit, lbj came back and said that it is such restraint. they are so ungrateful for all your kind services and for a time, it derailed the effort to get him off the committee. did he said that he had been rifled through >> this was in georgetown. the umpire, these are all freshmen senators. the catcher is john f. kennedy,

and the batter is henry jackson of washington. it was a posed photograph. in reade jackson's son told me recently that they had to wait for john f. kennedy to pull up. he was late for the picture. he took the picture and off he went. >> this shows milton young. >> he was facing a tough battle. he was a student of karate. somebody in his staff suggested he did a photo of his carotid class. the fact that you can chop block of wood in half with your fist with the side of your hand as a campaign picture to show how vigorous and up to the job you were. they did and for whatever reason, he won the race. >> how many posed to you have? >> about 40,000. >> how you get them?

>> be inherited a lot -- we inherited a lot. then, our current photo historian takes a good amount of time taking pictures when the senate is in session. we were able to take advantage of the old harris and ewing photo board when it went out of business, we received some of their photos. this is a good one. the most prominent person is everett dirksen. it is the unveiling of the portraits of the five outstanding centers. in the background, you see senator john f. kennedy, who was chair, and richard nixon. it is quite a picture. >> it brings up the subject the collections of senate materials.

how many are there? >>have you been to these places? >> yes. there was the establishment of the association of centers for the congress. there were 40 of those centers. de revolved around a particular senator. the centers need to talk to one another. they are working together. " i can hear somebody asking who pays for that, and i know the money comes out of over here. why is this necessary? >> that is entirely private. >> some of the centers have federal money to start. >> some of the money comes from what the for campaign cash when

a senator required -- retires. a university can agree to take on these papers. it is not only papers but electronic records. there are enormous cost implications. >> i read somewhere where you spoke about senator ted stevens who was convicted and then the charges were dropped for some missed doings in the senate. anyway, 40 years in the senate, what happened to all his papers? >> they are in the university of alaska at fairbanks. >> how does that work? >> vet put them in a truck or multiple trucks and move them out. >> what role did you play? >> not any particular role. we have an adviser for every senator's staff. some senators to not give us any thought until they retire, which

is not a good idea. from the first day that a senator is a member, wheat campaign to get him to think about preserving his papers. it is not so much vanity or ego, it is the eye of the middle for which the concerns of that particular state flow. >> from what you know, which of the centers historical materials have been put to the most use? >> well, certainly the papers of lyndon johnson at the lbj library. the papers of john stennis, at mississippi state university, margaret smith in maine, howard baker and bob dole have recently opened centers in their states.

they're gradually opening up their papers. >> if some young person came to you and said that you were the senate historian for 48 -- 38 years. if they want the job, what would you recommend? >> it depends on how young the person was. i would ask them if they enjoyed reading biographies. >> but say they are into history and they are in college and they really want this. this is not just a pipe dream. what should they do? >> read, read, read. right, right, right. -- write, write, write. we like people who have an interest in civics and government. i remember, as a teenager, going to the meetings of the board of aldermen in my town of melrose,

mass. and being fascinated with what was going on. that is the most elementary level. take it on up to the senate. >> so, was it a good job? >> it was a terrific job. it was the best possible job. i really had mixed feelings about leaving it. >> what are you leaving? >> the numbers add up. i have been on capitol hill for 41 years. i will be 70 years old and a couple months, and i want to be able to take control of my own time and have time for riding instructor my life a little differently. >> you have been writing the history of the rules. when did you start that? >> about 50 years ago. >> who is 4 to read this? >> probably about three people. it will go on the shelf of fundamental works about the operation of the united states senate.

by focusing on the rules, the rules are essential to the senate. it is possible to coax out all the blood and the thunder and the hurt feelings behind the changes in senate rules right from the very first time that thomas jefferson, when he drafted the rules of the continental congress in 1776, which were plagiarized by the rules makers in 1789 and have been evolving and tinkered with ever since that time. these rules exist for a purpose. for instance, talking about: addressing the presiding officer. one is that? >> if a senator with seven other senator in a heated moment and begins to use the word yo"you." the game is over.

they put that there because it is a chronic problem. >> when was your favorite time? >> in this job? >> yes. >> i like the -- two times. the bicentennial era of the late 1980's and also the work involving the capital visitors center. that is something we have been lobbying for a very long time. we did not sell the case, for sure, but we were happy to be involved. >> we have tried, on many occasions, to show the capital center. we were basically turned down by the speaker of the house. do you have any idea why they do not want cameras in there? >> it is a bit ironic. that visitors center is about open this and security.

i like to focus and on the open this side of the equation. as opposed to standing in long lines and not really having much of a clue of what was happening. >> you have seen this up close. we wanted to do this before the tourists got there or after the tourists left. what would they make a decision like this? >> i am the wrong guy to ask. i am with you on this. i think the only possible concern is that if you open it up for one media how what, you have to open it up for all media organizations -- one media outlet is you have to open it up for all media organizations. that is not my turf. i am not the best person to speak on that.

>> i keep asking you that question, but i do not guess we will get any more. i am not sure that there is an answer. >> it may be time. time will eat away at it a little bit 3 >> probably bleed not after i brought it up here. unwe have talked about this before. i want to go through it. it is one that i still cannot believe happened. that was the caning of senator charles sumner. i learned that the senate was not in session. i thought the senate was in session but we never talked about that. what was that all about? >> this took place in may of 1856, may 22. it was all about the question of slavery being allowed in the

territories that would be states, specifically in regards to kansas. charles sumner had stood up in that senate chamber and made a very long speech. he was a 6 foot 4 inch man. he began to make personal references to some of his colleagues. that included stephen douglas of illinois, who was part of this exchange. he said that he was some swat animal -- squat animal. he referred to the center of south carolina, henry butler, and said that he has a mistress and that he was there to inform everyone that he was a mattress and that she was beautiful in his eyes, but he was oddly to the eyes of the world. it was a kinsman of butlerr who

thought if he was a gentleman he would challenge him to a duel. he took a light came and waited for him outside the capital and could not find him. as a house member, he was able to go into the senate chamber and sat in the back row until the senate adjourned. as soon as they did, he got out of his chair, walked down the aisle and then up to the republican side where summer was sitting in the back row. if you were writing a novel or a movie set, you could not have had a greater sense of irony. sumner was writing his frank on an envelope that contained printed copies of the speech, the crime against kansas speech that he had given earlier. preston brooks raised the cane and brought it down on his head and he continued to do that for about a minute.

senators in the chamber were either shocked or the year he got what he deserved. finally, the two men were pulled apart. they thought that summer would die for sure. preston brooks resigned from the house because he would have been thrown out anyway. he went back to his district and was quickly reelected and came back as sort of a conquering hero. this was the death knell of the union. it was four years before secession. here in this chamber, reasonable men cannot sit and listen to one another and change or modify their opinions. what they are resorting to now and 1856 clubs and concealed pistol. >> the last paragraph was

interesting -- what is the average age of senators compared to history? >> right now, it is about 62.9 years, which is the highest ever. in the first congress, the average age was 47. it took until the 1840's for that number to top 50. considering that it was a young man's job just to travel and get over the bad roads and sleeping five to a bed in a boarding house in the capital city, so it was the top '50's in the mid-

19th century and it was not until 2005 that it went over 64 the first time. >> before we run out of time, that time has some relationship to history. >> historians love anniversaries and this year is the 100th anniversary of the russell senate office building. we produced a booklet and a senate website features that. the gift shop produced a series of three neckties that pick up the designs that are evident in this wonderful building. this just happened to be one of them. >> you get a sense that there are more appointed senators. more than any in history. is that true? >> no. we have a four currently serving appointed senators? >> kate bailey hutcheson is leaving, mel martinez of florida

is leaving and two more may be appointed. >> that is true. it could be up to six. in 1945-1946, there were 13. >> 13? >> 13. >> i think this could be because of better medicine. that changed in the late 1960's with the improvements of medications. >> senator byrd, a november 19 of this year will be the longest serving human history in the united states congress. how is he doing? we have not seen very much of him. i saw him vote in this on him sotomayor boat. >> i saw him also. i would say he is going to hang in for that milestone.

he has a long list of milestones that he has exceeded over the years. >> more than anything else, what do you want to do in retirement? >> continue to write history. >> will there be a commercial book? >> i think so. yes, there will be. i would like to take a look at the relationship between the centers and public overtime, over the past 220 years. we read about the town hall meetings and all the current frustration over health-care legislation. it raises the question of how this communication has gone over the past two centuries. >> dick baker, senate historian emeritus. thank you. >> thank you very much.

>> for a dvd copy of this program called 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. transcripts are also available as podcasts. up next, a look at the latet returns in the german elections. and then, venezuelan president hugo chavez speaks to the general assembly. after that, president obama's remarks at the congressional black caucus dinner and a replay of "q&a" with richard baker.

>> tomorrow, on "washington journal," steven cochrane talks about his company's report on housing prices. william cohen looks afghanistan. author william ouchi talks about his book and dr. creighton phelps talks about the alzheimer's research program. "washington journal," live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> c-span supreme court week is just a week away. featuring personal interviews with supreme court justices. get an insider's view of the people and places that make up the nation's highest court. >> why is t