join us on tomorrow's "washington journal." first, lisa mascaro on an ethics investigation on nevada senator john ensign. later, jonathan allen describes a to health care bills drafted in the senate and political hurdles to merging them. . .

>> this saturday, the meaning of matthew, and a world transformed. the mother met the shepherd will take your calls live. sunday, three hours in debt with blogger hugh hewiitt. is the author of 12 books. live this weekend on c-span2's book tv. >> president obama talked about the september unemployment report upon returning from copenhagen. first, he discussed the olympic committee's choice of rio de janeiro and not chicago to host the 2016 olympics. this is five minutes from the rose garden.

>> when the thing that is most viable about sports that you complete a great game and someone. i wish we have come back with better news from copenhagen. i cannot be prouder of my hometown of chicago. -- and the volunteers that were involved, mayor daley, and the extraordinary bid that we put forward. i do want to congratulate rio de janeiro and the nation of brazil for winning the 2016 olympics. i think this is a truly historic event. these will be the first of the big games ever to be held in south america. as neighbors in the americas, as friends to the brazilian people, we welcome this extraordinary sign of progress and the fact

that the 2016 games will be in the americas. i had a chance to talk to the president and get him a hearty congratulations. i told him that our athletes will see him on the field competition in 2016. i want him thank everybody who worked so hard to put america is a bid together, not just mayor daley and the delegation, but most especially the thousands of chicagoans to volunteered of these past two years. they put their heart and soul into this a bit. i have no doubt was as strong as it possible. -- strongest bid possible. i'm glad i can make the case in person. i believe it is always a worthwhile endeavor to promote and boost the united states of america and invite the world to come see what we are all about. we obviously would have been

eager to host these games. as i said, this nation and our athletes are still very much excited to compete in 2016. we want to once again say how much we are committed to the olympic spirit. i think it represents some of the best of humanity. i also want to say a few words about the unemployment numbers that cannot today. as i have said before, my principal focus each and every day and the principal focus of my economic team is putting our nation back on the path to prosperity. since the time last winter when we are losing $700,000 per month, we have made some -- 700,000 jobs from us, we have made some progress. we need to grind out this recovery.

from the moment i took office, i have made the point that employment is often the last thing to come back after a recession. that is what history shows us. our task is to do everything we can possibly do to accelerate that process. i want to let every single american know that i will not let up until those that are seeking work can find where it and until businesses that are seeking credit are able to get credit. that is our goal. it is one we are working every single day here in the white house to accomplice, whether it involves implementing the recovery act that has helped to bring back america from the brink of a much worse situation or lowering the cost of health care for businesses and families. that is why i am working closely with my economic advisor to explore any and all additional

options and measures that we might take to promote job creation. whenever i see statistics that the one i saw today, my mind turns to the people behind them. -- honest, decent americans who want the opportunity to contribute to their company and help build a better future. the building a 21st century economy that offers this opportunity, where people can receive the skills necessary to compete for the does the future will not happen overnight. we will build it. that i am both confident and determined. on behalf of every american, i will continue in that effort each and every day for as long as i am in this white house. thank you very much, everybody. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009]

>> now more on september unemployment figures from the joint economic committee. first we would hear from keith hall, commissioner of the bureau of labor statistics. this is an hour and 15 minutes. >> good morning. i am pleased to welcome back the commissioner this morning. my presiding -- i wish my

presiding had come under different circumstances. chairman maloney cannot be here today due to her husband's tragic accident over the weekend. i am sure the committee members will join me and my staff in expressing our deepest sympathies. our thoughts and prayers are with her during these very difficult days. i ask unanimous consent to keep the record open so that chairman maloney may include remarks for the record when she resumed her duties. without objection, so ordered. despite 7.2 million jobs lost in the current recession and 9.8% national unemployment, job losses of moderated since january. as today's numbers show, it will be a long road to recovery but

we are finally seeing selected signs of recovery. after the first quarter of 2009 when the gross domestic product fell by 6.4% second quarter numbers reveal that gdp fell by 0.7%. additionally, the institute for supply management's monthly index shows an expansion in the may thatching sector for the second consecutive month. -- manufacturing sector for the second consecutive month. after contracting from february 2008 to july of 2009. finally, yesterday, i participated in an extraordinary hearing of the house transportation and infrastructure committee looking at the administration's progress in getting our projects funded with the american recovery and reinvestment act. at that hearing secretary ray

lahood, our former house colleague, presented tremendous evidence of the benefits created by the stimulus both in terms of improved infrastructure and true economic recovery. the transportation portion of the stimulus alone has created an estimated 122,000 jobs already. i want to highlight a few things presented by secretary lahood as well as congratulate the secretary,@@@@i@ @ @ @ >> in san bernadino california. it is on its way to creating 2000 jobs in its first year. it is also noted that it received an $0.9 million as a part of the transit investment

for greenhouse gas. it will renovate a bus maintenance facility with a solar powered cells, creating energy savings, better distance for employees and many new jobs. another success story is the federal maritime administration. it is an agency that falls under our jurisdiction which i sit and a chair. as part of the stimulus program, it is already issuing grants for $90 million of its total one runner million dollars allocated . of its total $100 million allocated for dry docks, steel working machinery and other infrastructure improvements. finally, though not part of the stimulus, the carlisle rebate

system, better known as cash for clunkers has saved 40,000 and 120,000 jobs in the second half of 2009. not just the auto dealership jobs but the whole united states economy was given a boost by nearly 700,000 cars showing being sold at 21,000 dealerships across our nation. so as we await commissioner hall's testimony on the september employment statistics, i'd like to close with the acknowledgement that despite the progress we made through the transportation portion of the stimulus, we know how far we still have to go. when we face the most dire of circumstances, we took immediate action to provide for those most at risk. however, now we must build off of that success and work toward a real long-term recovery. and with that, i yield to --

>> we would like to express our profound sympathy to our chairman, carolyn malonely and her family for the loss of her husband, cliff. we will all keep her and her family in our thoughts and in our prayers. i'm pleased to join and welcoming commissioner hall before the committee this morning. the loss 263,000 payroll jobs and an increasing unemployment rate to 9.8% is bad news for american workers and their families. unemployment is a severe hardship. even if the recession is near its trough, the high unemployment rate is likely to persist for many months if not years. the jobless recovery is no recovery for american workers and their families. last january, top obama administration economists predicted that if congress were to pass a stimulus bill, the unemployment rate would not exceed 8%. congress did enact the obama bill but, unfortunately, as we

see once again, the stimulus plan did not perform as the administration had predicted. nevertheless, we are all looking for encouraging signs that the economy, while contracting is decelerating that contraction. financial market conditions seem to be improving. stock prices are up and job losses at least are slowing. however, personal consumption remains anemic and business and residential investment continue to fall. these factors contribute to a very weak and stressed labor market. like others, i'm hopeful that the current recession may have run its course. given the normal lag time between monetary actions and the appearance of their effects in the rest of the economy, the federal reserve's injection of $1.3 trillion in the financial markets between september and december of last year should boost real economic growth during second half of this year. however, liquidity injections or fiscal stimulus for that matter cannot turn that economy into a long and strong expansion.

as the chief executive and cochief investment officer of it remains damage from the collapse of prices and excessive debt. the growth of personal consumption is likely to remain tepid as them as increase their savings rate to improve their balance sheet. although housing prices may be stabilizing, the large inventory of foreclosed homes is likely to strain housing investment review a vigorous expansion will depend upon a major turnaround and vote business investment and net exports. with regard to business investment, the economic policy

of the obama administration and the democrats are quite humbling -- a troubling. the government policies but that these perceptions. unfortunately for the american people, the white house and congressional democrats have decreased . congressional democrats have simultaneously decreased the expected return and increased risk associated with new business investment to their actions and inactions. as a result, many firms are delaying investment decisions. since new business investment propels job creation, first in manufacturing equipment, designing the software, building the structures, then in hiring new employees to operate the equipment, the business investment created, these delays add to unemployment. and they delay the recovery. higher income tax rates and higher taxes on capital gains and dividends will begin in 2011.

congress has not yet moved, though, it is the end of the year, to extend the research and tax credit and the homeowners tax credit as well as increase the net operating loss carry-back time to five to seven years. they splashed expected returns causing firms to forgo training operations. one corporation which spends $10 billion a rear on r & d may lay off some of its researchers if congress does not act to renew the r & d tax credit soon. confusion about cap and tax and healthcare legislation adds to uncertainty further depressing business investment. business people fear the additional energy costs associated with the cap and tax bill that passed the house are unsure of what the senate may do the multiple healthcare bills the democrats leave business people confused about what additional taxes, officials, especially small businesses may

pay or what regulatory burdens they may now bear. the prospect for a sustained boost from net exports are also dim. the doha round of trade liberalization negotiations at the wto remain stalled. three pending free trade agreements with colombia, panama and south korea have not been acted on although recent studies show they could cumulatively create 500,000 new jobs within the country, our country. moreover, the president has proposed a number of counterproductive tax increases on u.s. multinational corporations that create american jobs through foreign sales of our american-made goods and services. in one corporation, for example, american sales generate only 25% of their revenues but nearly one-half of its jobs are located in the united states. the president's international tax proposals are in my view naive. they would reduce u.s. exports and jobs in export-related industries. the u.s. economy must move from

the sugar high of unsustainable government intervention to sound private sector-led growth. given the ongoing weakness and personal consumption and the housing sector, business investment in net exports must lead the way if the unemployment rate is to fall substantially. ironically many of the policies in washington today are undermining these two private sector drivers of job creation perhaps condemning american workers and their families to a very weak jobless recovery. i yield back. >> thank you very much. the chair recognizes ms. klobuchar. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. and on behalf of the senate i would like to offer my deepest condolences to chairwoman maloney and her family to lose her husband that suddenly in a far-away place i can only imagine how difficult it is for her and our thoughts and prayers are with her family. as i was listening to congressman brady, i was thinking back to january when we

were losing 700,000 jobs a month. and i was thinking back to the policies that got us there. we had eight years where basically -- there's plenty of blame to go around but deals no one understood. wall street did things that everyone agrees now was wrong. and we got to the point in this country where what was it someone said? wall street sneezed and main street got the pneumonia. when i look at what got us there, again, i think both sides of the aisle -- i wasn't here but should have done much more on subprimes and regulating those mortgage rates. but i'm much more interested in looking forward and what i hear, we've seen it in countries all over the world of stimulating the economy is part of the solution. but also getting the credit markets going again and then fiscal responsibility on behalf of this country. and having middle class families facing doubling of their

insurance premiums for healthcare cannot be the answer here and that's why we're tackling this difficult problem. what i want to look at here today is just where this rate is going. we have seen again some tapering off of the unemployment in this country. we know there are certain sectors. i know larry in minnesota, in northern minnesota, mining and home construction logging has particularly suffered and i will be asking more about the trends across this country. we also are struggling in congress right now -- commissioner hall with the extension of unemployment benefits. the house passed a bill that limited the extension to states that have 8.5% unemployment. coming from an area where we have some regions that are significantly below that and some areas of our state which are significantly above that, i don't believe that that is the answer. so in the senate we're looking at how we can extend unemployment benefits to all states to get at some of the

people at my state that i've heard from in recent months and someone who wrote in recently from woodbury. i've applied to over 500 jobs since last july and have personally walked into 60 companies with resumes in hand. companies don't even get back to me regarding my letter and resume. we are discouraged and we are isolated. so we have to remember that while we are starting to see some recovery and there have been some dramatic changes and signs of hope all over this country, which are good for our economy and the stock market is doing a little better right now, there are still many people out there out of work and i'm looking forward to hearing about the recent data, the trends that it shows so that we can look at the facts and not just the political rhetoric. thank you very much. >> thank you, ms. klobuchar. dr. keith hall is the commissioner of labor and statistics for the united states department of labor. the department of labor and

statistics is an independent statistical agency that collects and processes, analyzes and disseminates essential data on the american public. the united states congress and other federal agencies, state and local governments, business and labor. dr. hall, served as chief economist for the white house council of economic advisors under president bush. he was chief economist for the united states department of commerce. dr. hall has spent 10 years at the u.s. international trade commission. he received his b.a. degree from the university of virginia. and his m.s. and ph.d. degrees in economics from purdue university. it's good to be with you again, dr. hall. we will hear from you now. >> thank you. let them start by saying on behalf of all of us at the bureau of labor and statistics, i join with the members of the committee in offering our

condolences to congresswoman maloney and her family. they have our deepest sympathy and our thoughts and prayers are with them. mr. chairman, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the employment and nonemployment data we released this morning. job losses continued in september and the unemployment rate continued to trend up reaching 9.8%. payroll employment fell by 263,000 over the month and losses have now averaged 307,000 per month since may. payroll employment has fallen for 21 consecutive months with declines totals 7.2 million. in september, notable job losses occurred in construction, manufacturing, government and retail trade. construction employment decreased by 64,000 in september. job losses averaged 66,000 per month from may through september compared with an average of 117,000 lost per month from november 2008 through april.

employment in manufacturing declined by 51,000 in september. job losses in factories averaged 53,000 per month over the past three months. about one-third the average monthly decline from october through june. in september, retail trade employment fell by 39,000. the industry has lost an average of 29,000 jobs per month since april down from an average of 68,000 for the prior six month period. employment in government decreased by 53,000 in september. much of the decline was in local government. employment continued to increase in healthcare. the average monthly job gained so far in 2009 is 22,000 per month compared with an average gain of 30,000 during 2008. turning now to some measures from our household survey. the unemployment rate continued to trend up in september. the jobless rate has doubled since the start of the recession to 9.8%.

a total of 15.1 million persons were unemployed in september. twice the number at the start of the recession. the number of long-term unemployed rose to 5.4 million in september. this group has grown more than fourfold since the start of the recession. in september, the employment to population ratio continued to decline. at 58.8% the ratio was falling by 3.9 percentage points since the recession began. it is at its lowest levels since january of 1984. among the employed, there were 9.2 million persons working part-time in september. who would have preferred full-time work. while the number of such workers has been little changed since march it has nearly doubled since the start of the recession. in keeping with standard practice, we are announcing the preliminary estimate for the next benchmark revision to payroll employment. the benchmark process annually revises the payroll surveys sample based employment estimates to incorporate a

universe employment count derived primarily from unemployment insurance tax reports. preliminary tabulations indicate that the estimate of total nonforeign payroll employment for march of this year will require a downward revision of approximately 824,000 jobs. or six tenth of one percent. the historical average for the benchmark revision over the prior 10 years has been plus or minus two-tenths of one percent. most of the additional job loss occurred in the first quarter of 2009. when payroll employment was declining most steeply. it appears to be due in part to an increase in the number of business closings. the final benchmark revision will be incorporated into the payroll survey with a publication of january data on february 5th, 2010. historical series data series will be revised at that time. in summary the labor market remained weak in september. payroll employment fell and the unemployment rate continued to trend up. my colleagues and i would now be glad to answer your questions. >> dr. hall, thank you very

much. the falling of wages, what is the significance of that? dr. hall? >> the falling of wages, certainly the falling of certainly of real wages would be an indication of a weak labor market and that has implications because of consumers buying power doesn't grow so quickly that way so that can have further implications. typically in recessions nominal wages continue to rise and they have continued to rise with the rising of wages has slowed a bit. it's 2.5% right now. >> now, the national unemployment rate is 9.8%; is that correct? >> yes. >> and for white people it's 9%; is that correct? >> yes. >> and for african-americans, it's 15.4%? is that correct? >> that's correct. >> and hispanic it's 12.7%; is that correct?

>> yes. for men it's 10.3%? >> for men total it's 11%. >> 11%. and how about for women? >> 8.4%. >> 8.4. >> last month the council of economic advisors released their first report on the effects of the recovery act. turning to government stimulus created between 300,000 and 500,000 jobs. and the second quarter of this i was in a hearing with the secretary of transportation ray lahood said many projects were started because of the stimulus. if i heard you correctly, he said there is a decline in jobs. is that right? >> yes. >> the you see evidence of increasing employment in other sectors affected by transportation in september's numbers? >> it is hard for us to take

that out. we are based on getting this current level. our servers are not designed to capture the impact of particular policy issues. we are mostly is surveying the payroll levels. we do not try to ask what their levels would have them. >> they also said the stimulus created jobs. is there any evidence of this in the september numbers? would fall under the same category? >> it is -- it does fall under the same category. and from the loss has moderated. >> what is the significance? >> it is a leading indicator. often when changes increase or decrease, that is generally a sign of improvement.

>> recently, the bureau of economic analysis reported the defense estimates for second quarter gdp. it put the decline at 0.7% for the second quarter of 2009. 0.7% in the second quarter of 2009 in addition to this glimmer of hope, they reported personal consumption expenditures rose from may to august. are any sectors experiencing more job creations and job losses apparently or are there any signs that any sector will start expanding in the near future essentially what is the good news if any to take from this report? >> sure. the job loss this month was actually fairly reasonably concentrated in four sectors. construction, manufacturing, retail trade and government. and outside those four sectors the other major sectors either have very small job loss or approximately zero job loss.

so that actually is a good sign that the job loss was not so broad as it was say six months ago. >> those four categories that you stated just now. what did you say about those? >> that's where most of the job loss this month was concentrated. almost 80% of the job loss was if either construction or manufacturing or retail trade or government. >> and what's the significance of the losses in government? >> well, for government, the notable thing about government was the job loss was focused in local government. in fact, the job loss is kind of accelerating for government in recent months and it has been in local government. of the 53,000 jobs lost in government, 37,000 were in local government. >> so that means our local folk, cities and local towns are suffering; is that right? >> yes. >> what about state government? >> state governments, they're losing jobs as well.

but not quite at the pace of local governments. we lost about 10,000 jobs in state government this month. >> i see. my time is up. i now yield to mr. brady. >> thank you, mr. chairman. if i may, i'd like to say one thing at the outset. a long time public servant of this committee has recently decided to retire and deserves to be recognized. the house republican staff director chris friends. chris has been a tremendous asset to both my office and this congressional body. he joined the joint economic committee staff in 1981. has served under 12 different jec chairmen in his 28-plus years in service. he actually first began staffing the employment situation hearings in 1982 beginning with bls commissioner janet norwood appointed by president carter and today marks his final employment hearing. chris represents the very best in public service and needless to say his expertise, vast

institutional knowledge and constant professionalism will be sorely missed. i and others wish him the very best. thank you, chris. >> if i could have that chart. we were told again and urged to pass the federal stimulus and told -- assured that it would control unemployment in america. this chart shows -- the blue line shows what was projected by the white house and the economic advisors if only we passed the stimulus. the red line shows what's actually happened in real life. we've seen a tremendous increase in unemployment. job losses continue. and ironically christine roemer, chairman of the economic advisors sat where you sat and testified that job gains would be highest in manufacturing and construction. and in your testimony, as it has been for several months, actually the greater job losses have occurred in manufacturing and construction, the very two

areas the stimulus was proclaimed would have a jolt to america's economy. what i think is happening in real life is that you have one stimulus that is so small compared to the rest of the economy. if the u.s. economy is the size of the football field, the stimulus spending is about that of the 1 yard line and it's hard to claim that's stimulating the economy and the second problem we've got is that i meet each monday with a number of our businesses in the houston region to try to determine what they're experiencing and what they're forecasting. and week in and week out, even though there are different groups, they come to the same conclusion, which is their customers and clients are delaying business investment decisions, waiting to see what washington will do. they're afraid of making key investments in areas where they might later see increased energy taxes. increased utility taxes,

increased taxes on capital gains and dividends, increased income, healthcare taxes. they are being -- a lot of our companies thankfully sell american products around the world but the white house and this congress has proposed to make them absolutely uncompetitive with tax increases that would devastate their jobs. in my region, houston region, we have 340 companies who employ 150,000 people who depend upon some type of level playing field to sell our u.s. products around this world and they're not going to make investments if they'll be punished for actually selling american throughout the world. i think that the invisible hand of government rather than visible hand of the market is now dramatically slowing our recovery and delaying those investment decisions. you see that, i think, in unemployment numbers today. according to the household

survey, employment declined by 785,000 in september. and commissioner, i'd like to ask you -- put that in perspective. is that an average or an unusually large monthly decline? >> well, we tend to focus -- we are looking at month-to-month changes we look at payroll surveys since it's a bit more accurate on the monthly case. but i'd say certainly the payroll job loss at 263,000 is a little bit better but roughly in line with the past five months. >> what have the household surveys been in the past few months? >> let them see. the household survey -- we'll have to look the numbers up. one second here. ..

how much has it increased from january? what was that number? >> the total unemployed was bidding 1 1 million. that is an increase of about 200,000. quite the gentleman's time has expired. >> thank you very much. thank you for being here, commissioner paul. i appreciate you go into the four areas. here again, commissioner hall. i appreciate you going through the four areas that we have seen job loss. i think some people with the recovery package thank all that money went into government workers. i think it will be interesting

for them to know there is active in a decrease in government workers, is that correct? >> yes. >> i think that's because most of the money was used in the private sector, a third of it was tax cuts, a third was helping with state budget issues, and then a third was the spending on roads and bridges and broadband which still hasn't gone out yet, and other things which were essentially went to the private sector, the basketry of it, is that correct? >> i believe so. >> the retail trade number where you have seen a decrease in net, you're talking to people buying things? >> basically, yes or. >> and i was just reading an article this morning about this, but individual spending has gone down as their savings rates have gone up, is that i? >> i believe that is to. >> to see that in other recessions we've had in the past? >> that's a good question. i'm not sure i know the answer real well. i believe that's correct.

that does sound right. people 10 to repair the balance sheets i might in fact increase their savings. >> and then manufacturing, we are aware of that issue in construction as you pointed out. is there a trend in parts of the country, say, is the unemployment rate higher in the west or the south or do you see any trend? i know when you and i have discussed this before, and there is a patchwork of states that didn't really have one part of the country that was faring worse. >> sure. i can tell you generally the regions. the regions that have been hardest hit this recession, hardest hit regions has been the west, and maybe the midwest. and the northeast has been maybe the least hard hit. the west lost about 6 percent of their jobs were the northeast lost about 3%.

>> one of the things we're debating right now is the extension of the unemployment benefits and there is a proposal out there, the house proposal that only those unemployed in states that have a .5% or over unemployment will get an extension. i have an interesting letter from one of my constituents that said that maybe minnesota's rate is 8%. but at her house and its 100%. one of the things that i am grappling with is regions, say wisconsin next door to us, has an 8.8% employment. we are at 8%. yet a region that stretches across both states have similar unemployment rate. i'm very concerned about this kind off that we look at it that way, doesn't quite make sense to me. i will say compared with wisconsin, we did get one more increase in employmenemployment in minnesota when we hired brett favre from wisconsin. so that maybe can account for some of the difference. but i am just wondering if you have seen this before, and what

kind of economic, don't make some joke about clogger for cash because he has turned out to be very good. all right. so what i'm wondering about what i would like to know is headed in the arbitrary cut off and is this way we should go when states -- what kind of incentive would we be creating in these? >> i don't want to comment on the policy aspect. >> please do. >> i will say though that the change in unemployment rates during the recession for states clearly somewhat depends upon the industry mix in those states. but there really does seem to be sort of a state level, you know, where some states start with a higher unemployment rate before the recession. so i don't see a sample story as to what states are going to jump above the level you talk about. i don't see a good way of predicting that during a recession. >> do you know much about the history of the extension of

unemployment benefits, and if they were set at a certain rate for which he states, which unemployed get them and which don't i don't. >> the changes in temporary services, i think i read somewhere this morning at your numbers are going to show that actually they have seen job loss in temporary services, is that right? >> yes. they lost 2000 jobs. >> didn't you tell me before that an increase in temporary help can be a sign that that's what companies do first, they hire these temporary workers so it could be a good sign that it's going to leave later. what do you think this means? >> well, this is a moderation actually and lost in temporary help. last five months temporary help has lost something around nine or 10000 jobs a month. 2000 as a little bit of a moderation. i would say a moderation job loss in temporary help is probably not a bad sign. >> so in other words, it actually has moderated and gotten better.

so this argument that companies start hiring temporary workers and then eventually hire permanent workers could still stand to? >> yes. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. dr. hall, i just want to talk a little bit about how this economy has affected women and people of color. in particular, what industries have women and people of color lost the most jobs? >> it varies a bit. african-americans have lost a >> information services. it has been pretty broad. for hispanics, it has been brought as well, although their numbers of job loss was probably

more and construction than other groups. >> there are some areas where there have not been in job loss for certain groups. for example, education and health and leisure and hospitality. they have had up increase over the past year. >> one of the most alarming statistics is with regard to african-american teenage unemployment. it was up to 40.8% in september. that was up from 34.7%. is that correct? and what -- if that is accurate, what is the

significance of that? >> that is accurate. >> and normally, is a teenager employment rate significant in regards to contributing toward a family is stability financial stability and having the funds ? stability and having the funds to do what they need to do to survive? >> well, certainly african-american teens are being hit much harder by the recession and the most always are. it's gone up quite a bit that it's been absolutely and probably should have implications for family finances. >> do you have any reasonable explanation for that? in other words, why that number? we are approaching a 50 percent

of african-american teens, and i assume these are people who are ready, willing and able to work, don't have jobs. >> i don't have a good explanation. i'm not that familiar with economic research literature that would explain that. >> has the unemployment rate for color leveled off? >> it has slowed down pretty much like the overall unemployment rate. is still probably roughly leveling off but it's moderated a little bit. >> and women in recent decades in increasing proportion of women's, 55 and older are working and this trend has continued during this recession, while decreasing proportion of men 55 and older are working during this recession here can there be reasons for the difference other than a recession has hit male-dominated

industry harder? >> there might well be something more are going on. because the differences are fairly surprising. >> why do you say that? >> well, the big differences for women 55 and older, their unemployment rate is doubled during this recession. but the employment to population ratio which will give you some idea of the labor participation, that has gone down for women 55 and older. so really what we see is an increase in labor force participation by women that age. >> well, could some of that trend has to do with the fact that many 55 to 64 year-old women, older men who have retired or taken by alps are no medicare eligible, women ages 55 to 64 are jet eligible for

medicare, and because their husbands are no longer working they no longer have health insurance through a spouse. perhaps these older women are returning to the label force in order to obtain health insurance? >> that's quite possible for our data is not going to tease that out and take that for sure but it's early, but it is consistent with that. >> my time has expired, ms. klobuchar. >> make you very much, mr. chairman. commissioner hall, we talked before about this dramatic difference between unemployment with varying degrees of education. and i always like to see what the trend is here, and i think you have remarked before that compared to other recessions, and correct me if i'm wrong, those without a high school degree were really soft hard with this recession. what is the employment rate now for let's start with college graduates. on employment rate. >> the unemployment rate for college graduates is 4.9 percents. >> four point nine present.

what is the unemployment rate for a high school graduate? >> 10.8%. over double. >> 10.8%. then what is the unemployment rate for those without a high school degree? >> 15%. >> is that relatively the same margin we saw last month or has there been any changes to their? >> it's pretty similar. the unemployment rate for less than a high school paula dropped a little bit, but it may not be statistically significant and there may be some issue of folks dropping out of the labor force as well. >> do you have postcollege greet unemployment for people have an additional degree? >> yeah, we do. we don't have the data with us. >> i would like to see that. it would be interesting. lederle, you have not quite double the unemployment rate where you don't have a high school degree, but almost. been really above the national on implement rate even with a

high school degree, and insignificantly below if you have a college degree. is that a correct characterization? >> yes, it is. >> you can see why we are so focused now and the president is on trying to make sure that high school students get some college education. so we're going to continue to pursue that. i think it's very important. the second thing i always like to ask about because i think people are stunned when they learned that our soldiers will come back from serving in iraq and afghanistan, the group that we categorize in the age group who have served in the armed services since september 11, 2001, that they're on employment rate has been traditionally higher than the unemployment rate of your average citizen in the united states. so where is that this month's? >> well, for gulf war era to veterans from the unemployment rate is 10.6% as opposed to nonveterans where it is nine points 3%. >> and you and i have talked

before about, this was worse earlier in the year, is that right? is always slightly above the national unemployment rate? >> is generally a buffet. >> it is always above the. i think if it has been more about that? >> i'm not sure if it was more in 2009, it's been about the same gap. i'm not sure about whether 2008. >> i think somewhere, well, it was up further than 10% rate. but i think people would be surprised by that because we want to make, when those who serve us, we want to make sure they have a job. and it's difficult because those that left in the middle of the beginning of this recession, come back and maybe the company work for isn't there anymore or they have significantly reduced their employment. so that is a change. another thing i wondered about was the discouraged workers, and these are people who work full time who would like to work full-time, right, but they can only find a part-time job.

or people, is that the characterization of discouraged worker, or should include those that can't find a job at all? >> yeah, there's a broader category called marginally attached. >> what is marginally attached to give? >> these are people who want to work, but they haven't looked within the past four weeks. so they aren't counted in the labor force because they haven't looked lately but they have looked in the past year. >> so they are not included in his unemployment rate? >> know they are not. >> so this person i mention in my opening statement who has sent out 60 resumes and in 60 places and go to all of these interviews, if at some point she said i can do this anymore and takes a month off from looking, she wouldn't even be included in the unemployment rate? >> that's right. a 9.8% unemployment rate doesn't include people who are discouraged or part-time for economic reasons. >> when you include forgetting

the marginally attached once, if you include these people that want to work full-time but are only working part-time, who have significantly reduced hours, and significantly reduced money as a result, once the unemployment rate when you include in? >> it goes up to 17%. >> where is that compared to the trend of the last year? >> that's up significantly. change over the year it is up by almost six percentage points over the past year. >> so do you think it's possible for some of these people who are unemployed and then left on part-time jobs but it's not what they want to be? >> yes, that's quite possible. >> very good. thank you. >> thank you very much. dr. hall, let me ask you. the last month when you were here, the last time you were here, you sounded relatively and cautiously optimistic. is that a fair statement? >> yes.

>> how would you describe your position today? >> i think this report is very similar to a couple of months ago. >> and that's what i thought. >> i was a little more enthusiastic because it was a clear moderation from prior. now we're not in a common position where we are at a plateau right now with the job loss is still significant but it isn't as high as it was before. >> now, this cash for clunkers program, when you consider that, did you expect to see more or less impact as a result of that, or no impact? did you have any idea? i know you don't have a magic ball, but certainly when you see all of the commercials and all the news, you must -- considering what to do, i'm sure you had some thoughts. >> well, we did see a couple of months of pickup in employment

and automobile dealerships. in particular. we didn't see a lot in the manufacturing of cars. that wasn't surprising because a lot of the sailor coming out of inventories. and if they wind up being an impact on production of cars, it is likely to come later. later than when actual program is going on. >> so it would not surprise you that at least a slight pickup in the future report or two with regard to manufacturing since i think they said they sold over 700,000 cars? >> that's right. although again it would be hard for us to measure that. but that is where i would expect to see some sort of impact. >> consumer balance sheets have been severely depleted due to the fall in the stock market and a declining home values. state budgets have been hit hard by the declining income tax is. property taxes and sales tax revenues, however we saw a small

increase in personal consumption and expenditures in may, june and july. will personal consumption expenditure help expand employment back under. >> yes, it will. so even if consumption picks up it is part of a lagging effect of the labor market sometimes where businesses will take a little time with employment even sales. >> in answering one of ms. klobuchar's questions, you were talking briefly about savings. what is a significant of people saving? i guess that means they are not spending, and that doesn't help too much, or does that? >> no, it -- in the long run it can be obviously good because people have to replenish their savings. but in the short run it can delay the recovery a little bit

because people are being cautious in increasing their savings rather than spending. >> in august alone, all retailers saw their sales increased by 2.7% due in large part to a 10.6% boost in sales of the auto dealership. we saw a retail job losses closed sharply in august. do you think that there is going to be a continuing slowing in the retail job area? >> it's hard to say. you know, we lost 39000 this month. we averaged about 20000 lost over the last five months. i would guess that if consumption in retail sales continue to stay up that at some point we will see an employment index.

>> so if president obama called you right after you got out of his hearing and said, dr. hall, just give me your assessment of where we are. what would you say? >> i would say right now we're at a bit of a plateau where job loss is significant the job loss now is maybe in the range of something like a normal recession. the six month time span where we had 55 for dix's hundred thousand jobs lost, that was unprecedented -- where we had 600,000 jobs lost, that was unprecedented. >> thank you very much. to follow up of more on the savings issue, does there come some point where consumers -- i think yes marley been saving money in realizing that to protect themselves -- does there come a