so just how does a dangerous criminal serving three life sentences just walk out of prison? because they released the wrong guy. and all this inmate had to do was memorize a jail number. that was his get out of jail free card, pretend he was someone else. how does that happen? a rhode island high school is firing all of its teachers, every last one, principals all canned. about 80 people. now, this school is one of the worst in the state. half the kids are failing every subject. half can't read. something has to be done, but is

firing every teacher the way to go here? call in, always love hearing from you. 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us, join us on facebook or text us. it's your chance to be heard. controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." welcome. this is "prime news." i'm mike galanos. how is it? how does it happen? a dangerous criminal cons his way out of a baltimore prison just by pretending to be his cellmate. that's what we have here. raymond taylor is his name. he shot his ex-girlfriend. he was mad at her because they broke up, shot her and her teenaged daughters, lined them up against the bedpost and shot them execution style. they miraculously lived. raymond taylor was serving three life sentences, but against protocol he's put in the same cell with an inmate who is about to be released. when the guard called that inmate's name, officials say

taylor, our hard ened criminal, walked up as this guy. memorized the i.d. number, and that act got him through three checkpoints. >> the inmate was asked to verbally give his i.d. number as this officer checked the numbers against the i.d. card. taylor recited numbers belonging to inmate johnson and the officer removed the inmate from the cell and escorted this inmate to the control center. there were three checks from the cellblock to the sally port to the street. that didn't work out very well. >> thankfully raymond taylor is back behind bars. he was captured this morning at a friend's house in west virginia, captured without incident. unbelievable. love to hear from you on this one. call in, 1-877-tell-hln. back with us, lisa bloom, legal analyst for cnn. also with us, justin fent, reporter for "the baltimore sun." first off, how do these two end up in the same cell, a guy that's going to be released and a guy serving three life

sentences? >> the prison in downtown baltimore is sort of a prison where there's a lot of coming and going. they take people who are going to be in court or be released. what they're supposed to do is keep those who are going to be released either by themselves or with other people who are due for release and that did not happen in this case. mr. taylor was due in court on the eastern shore for a civil lawsuit he had filed against another inmate apparently over some artwork. he was put in the same cell as an inmate who was due for release that day after serving some timing on a burglary charge. >> okay. lisa, let's stop right there. instant infraction obviously to put these two together. no way that should happen, right? >> of course, it shouldn't happen, and i wouldn't want to just see heads roll at the bottom of the chain, that is whatever guards may have made some errors but let's investigate this all the way up. i mean, what kind of supervision was going on to make sure that this was done properly? i understand that our prisons

are overcrowded, but obviously we have to be extra careful not to release the wrong guy and this was a highly dangerous individual, as you say, who had attempted to kill three innocent people. thank goodness we caught him. we always catch these guys when they escape. that's the good part of the story. but there needs to be an investigation top to bottom to see what exactly went wrong. >> let's backtrack a little bit. let's get this picture up again of these two guys. let me ask justin, how did he get the i.d.? raymond taylor is on the left, william johnson, the guy who is going to be released is on the right. >> it's not clear how he got the i.d. card. he got his hands on it. it's not clear whether he paid for it or obtained it by force but what the officials are saying is the other guy didn't object when they came to take him out of his cell and he walked out with his i.d. card. that's something they're looking into, but the state officials don't believe there was any, i

guess, ulterior motives or cooperation with corrections officers. >> what about johnson? if i'm going to get out of jail, william johnson was set to get out, i believe he served a couple years, and i hear my name called, i'm sitting at the gate or the jail cell door waiting to get out of there. what do we know? >> johnson was released later that day even after they realized they had released the wrong person. they went ahead and released johnson. they were able to find him, snatch him back up, and charged him with conspiracy to escape. today in annapolis, the lawmakers, the secretary of the prison system said that we failed in this regard. >> yeah. let's get on johnson for a sec, lisa. you're going to be released and the inference here is now he's mixed up with trying to get mr. taylor out? what a fool. let's start there, lisa. go ahead. >> i think you put your finger right on it, and i think

johnson, it sounds to me from the facts we know so far, he may have been a co-conspirator. the fact he apparently was just sitting there, his i.d. card just mysteriously ended up in his cellmate's hand, his i.d. number was memorized by his cellmate, it sounds like there's at least enough to investigate as a possible criminal conspiracy and guess what? he may not be getting out or he may not be on the verge 6 getting out because that could be a long prison term if you conspire to help another inmate escape. >> what is it like, ten years? >> that's right. >> on your way out, now looking at ten years. we'll continue to follow this one. calls, your thoughts. you know the number, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. many of you just flabbergasted by this story. a hardened criminal convicted of attempted murder shooting his ex-girlfriend and her two teenage daughter execution-style. thankfully they survived it, but this guy just walks out as he's posing as another guy he ends up in the same jail cell. cindy writing what is wrong with our system today? someone was not doing their job. amanda writing, and you would think they would know if he had a life sentence. tara, your thoughts? >> caller: i'm just wondering if anybody was actually looking at the picture and looking at the person facing them because these two guys look nothing alike. >> robin, bruce, let's get that picture up again. there they are. great point, tara. i don't know what a guard would be looking at. lisa, can you see the picture here? >> yes, i can. i don't know how small and

grainy the picture might have been if it's like a driver's license picture, but you're absolutely right. you know, but i'd like to see something a little bitter than a picture because sometimes people do look alike. how about a fingerprint, some dna, something a little more concrete than a picture on a card. >> justin, anybody offering an explanation as to we see these two pictures, like come on. >> before we saw the pictures we were told they had the same build, same height, same weight, same complexion, the same facial hair. once i saw the pictures i got to say i didn't really think that these guys were separated at birth, but today before the state lawmakers the prison secretary said that they are going to look into finger printing technology. it would cost about $20,000 per facility. some of the lawmakers weren't sure that in a tough budget year that that's something we can swing. >> they have to do something. lisa, you talked about it. investigation top to bottom.

what more can be done? this just flat out can't happen. >> it amazing me there were three checkpoints. it wasn't just one person that got duped. look, prisons have to be set up on the basis that every prisoner wants to get out. many prisoners will contemplate escape, they're certainly going to try to get out any way they can, in a laundry bag, in a truck, or walking out impersonating another prisoner. there has to be a top down, i don't like it when just the guys at the bottom get in trouble, investigation about what exactly went wrong. what were the procedures that were wrong? what can be improved and not just pointing the finger at one or two people. >> you mentioned it in the cell, that's where it began. again in a holding area and even a supervisor looked at this i.d., heard him recite the number and let him go. just justin, has anybody talked about specific punishment from anybody from the supervisor on out? >> yeah. i think they've identified the people involved and it will be some time before they complete the internal investigation. one of the questions we have is

that there's been a lot of stories lately about a lot of corruption in the state prison system. there was a huge indictment last year where corrections officers were accused of being in cahoots with gang members, getting them gray goose vodka and lobster and cell phones and contraband is a huge problem. the state says it's just a few bad apples, but that's one of the first things we thought of when we heard about this. >> exactly a case like this. not that the two are linked but something is broken here and needs to be fixed. justin, thanks so much. lisa, i know you will stick around for more stories. we're talking about this one next, digging deeper into this story about this little girl abandoned. we've been following this all week. we now know her name and we know more about her father. disturbing detail there is. stay with us. first this, the oldest civil rights organization in america has its youngest chairman ever. that story making news in our

what matters segment. 44-year-old roslyn brock is taking over the top spot on the naacp board succeeding 70-year-old julian bond. she says the naacp can be a powerful force for every generation, including young people in america. >> i want to be able to get the word out that the naacp is alive and well and that we are a multicultural, multiracial organization, and it is our goal to extend a broader net to encourage all americans who believe in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to come and join us. >> she's a health care executive who has been a member of the organization her entire life. they represents a new generation of leadership. and could affirmative action be making a come back in california? that story also making news in our "what matters" segment. civil right activists have filed a lawsuit challenging

proposition 209. the law bans public schools, employers, and contractors from considering race, sex, and ethnicity in hiring or admissions. now, this new lawsuit claims prop 209 violates the constitution and it has limited the number of minority students at the school's most selective campuses. the lead attorney filing the suit says the number of black and latino students at uc schools has dropped dramatically. check out the march issue of "essence ".

welcome back. we have disturbing new details in the asia johnson case. a frantic search is still on for the oklahoma girl. she's not been seen for 33 days. cops say the 7-year-old may have seen her own mom bludgeoned to death with a hammer by her stepdad. his name is lester hobbes. he's the sole focus of an intense manhunt. cops describe him as a drifter likely moving from place to place at night. >> he took off out of here in a hurry in the middle of the night. he's gotten to a point he felt comfortable, and he's laid down. he may have laid there for a couple of days and then he's moved to the next point traveling at night just like a coyote, a scavenger. moving from point to point. >> the detectives say he likes

to cruise the internet looking for lonely women. he has the word rose on his right hand, the word love on his left. cops have urged him to turn himself in. oklahoma investigators have opened up a special phone line dedicated to tips. anyone can any information call 580-355-1115. our thoughts and prayers are with aja. the more we're learning about another little girl abandoned eed at a gas station delaware the more horrifying this case becomes. her name is hannah jackson. the body found burned in a park is hannah's mother. detectives in brunswick, new jersey, now charged hannah's father, with murder.

he was charged with kidnapping and endangering the welfare of a child. joining me to talk about this and welcome back lisa bloom from cnn. also with us former criminal investigators steve cardin and joining us as well, jane learner, reporter from "the journal news" covering the greater new york city area. jane, i will start with you. what is the latest? how did they connect the dots back to jackson on this burned body they found. >> this is a very complex, confusing case that broke in our area early monday morning when we received a report that two newspaper carriers saw a body on fire in a park in muncie, which is in rockland county, new york, and police really had no idea who this woman was. she had no identification except for a tattoo on her le lower ba with the name patricia on it. there were some other indications that made them check local hospitalishospitals. they were really stymied until we started hearing reports of a

child found locked in the restroom at a gas station in delaware almost three hours away, and people started to wonder or we started to hear that perhaps these two cases were related. >> what is the time line? do you know, jane, from when the burned body was found as opposed to when the little girl was found it is gae station? >> yes. the burned body was reported to police at 5:30 a.m. on monday. apparently what we've been told in delaware is that the child was found sunday afternoon. so maybe about 12 hours earlier locked in a gas station. the girl was in good health and good condition, but she had just been left there with no i.d., no idea who she was, and a little more than 12 hours later this woman's body was found, again 160 miles away. >> 160 miles away. steve cardin, as you look at, it how important is that time line as to when the little girl was found and the burned body was

found? >> it's very important, mike, and to my understanding that patricia was transported down into delaware and then back into rockland county. the time line is really tight from apparently the time she was killed in new jersey and brought down to delaware and the young child brought to delaware and her body returned back and dumped in rockland. >> jane, what's the family situation here? >> again, a little bit unclear, but i have been working very hard with my colleague steve lieberman to put this story together all week and it appears that the victim, this 24-year-old woman, patricia belazar, had a child with dwayne jackson. that child is hannah jackson. it appears dwayne jackson was married or is currently married to another woman. they lived together in new jersey. he works or he worked as a security guard at a hospital. they had two young boys together, we're told, and his wife has a child from another

relationship, so he lived with his wife and three children, and we're told somehow another woman is involved in this who might have played a role in transporting. >> hold it right there. we're going to continue after a break. stay with us.

>> the temperatures may be frigid, but the atmosphere here is red hot. welcome to comcast on the red carpet. i'm at the 14th annual maryland state police polar bear plunge, maryland's premier winter event. >> this is my kind of weather. >> perfect day for a plunge. >> you got to get in. >> this is a huge event. it's amazing. we started back in '96 and it was probably like hundreds of people, and now it's just thousands. it's turned into a major standout event for the state of

maryland. >> this is the it first time we've had a snow like this and it really does tell who this is all about. it's raising money for a special group of people and they're coming no matter what the weather is. >> how do you do this? >> why? because i love the energy. >> the show must go on. the polar bear plunge, great benefit for special olympics, one of the great charities in maryland, and a ton of people out here. everybody is warm and in the spirit of giving, so it will be a great day. >> for one of the rookie soup sr plunger, this was an item on his life to do list. >> i've never done it. you've heard of the movie the bucket list. this was on my bucket list of things to do. i've accomplished it and can check it off my list. it was a great, great opportunity. >> this is the most amazing group of people i've ever worked with. for those of you who have not been here before, you'll leave here with life long friends. >> as a first time plunger, it's

not what you expect. i never expected to cry, but i did yesterday and today because the super plungers were so much. to hear the stories are heart-felt. >> i was a first time super plunger in freezing cold water. >> what's the water temperature? >> cold. >> my first time, i could never do it. this this year, i was like, alright, i'm here, i'm going to do it. we're in little costumes. it's cold out there. nothing compares to how cold it is out here. >> it's rewarding because of the smiles you put on the athletes faces and the camaraderie you get to be with the parents, then the family atmosphere that keeps drawing everybody back. >> are you ready? are you ready? >> it gets better every time. >> this is serious business. >> every year i challenge all of the delegates and the house delegates to come out and plunge

f they are not going to plunge, they should give us money for the special olympics. >> it's a wonderful cause, special people, and an important segment of our society, and we have to step up and be there for them. >> for law enforcement, it's a special, unique connection with the spec olympics. police officers love to be out there among the crowd, and they love to be around everyone, the young and the old. >> the 2010 marked the inaugural year, a special plunge on friday for maryland's elementary and high school students. >> we had about 2,000 students out here yesterday. the energy was amazing. these kids embraced the concept. for them to do something bigger than themselves and be active, it's awesome. >> it's for the special olympians. we live for, go for, die for, is to give them an opportunity to participate if the games. >> our athletes are children and

adults. we have athletes in their 70's. they can choose from 28 different sports all year long. we're not a one-time a year attraction event. everyday of the year an athlete is benefits from the funds raise. >> with over $3 million raised from the efforts this year, some may wonder where the money goes? >> it goes straight to the athletes like myself and show that athletes with disabilities can do anything that they put their minds to. >> think about it t you can sit there as a child and see kids playing tennis, basketball, football, running track. now as a kid because somebody looked at you as having some type of disability, you don't have a disability. this allows you to go out there and do everything that everybody else can do. you're just like everybody else. >> the bay may be chilly, but you see the steam off of me. that's the warm from our hearts. >> this is what you call

freezing for a reason. to learn how you can contribute to special olympics maryland, check out smoddot organize. go to on demand and click get local for what's going on in your community. for comcast red carpet, 

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. a rhode island school is firing every single teacher, about 80 people. even the principal, assistant principal, guidance counselors. all axed because the school is failing. half of the kids can't read. 93% are failing math, can't pass the state's math exam. with failure rates like this, you have to do something drastic, but is firing all the teachers the way to go? is that the best way to handle this? we're going to be talking to

guidance counselor about this, also the superintendent. first, here is randi kaye from our sister network cnn to tell us how this all went down. >> reporter: this is central falls high school in rhode island where the poorest students in the state go to school. 75% of the district lives in poverty. a good education may be their only shot at a brighter future. so to give these students a better chance, central falls superintendent this week did something so radical, so unheard of, it's captured the nation's attention. she cleaned house, fired dozens of teachers because the district says they refuse to spend more time with students to improve test scores. >> we have a serious problem. when you have a 48% graduation rate, we lose more children than we graduate. >> reporter: central falls is one of the lowest performing schools in the state. of the 800 students 65% are hispanic. for most english is a second

language. half are failing every subject. just 55% are skilled in reading. only 7% proficient in math. meanwhile, the majority of their teachers are earning between $72,000 and $78,000 a year, well above the national average. and the district says the teachers wanted even more money, as much as $90 an hour more for the extra time spent with students. this is in a community where the latest census figures show the median income is $22,000. based on federal guidelines, the superintendent proposed teachers work a longer school day, seven hours, tutor students weekly for one hour outside of school time, have lunch with students often, meet for 90 minutes every week to discuss education, and set aside two weeks during summer break for paid professional development. a spokesman for the school district told me the teacher's union wanted to negotiate the changes, so the superintendent

felt she had no choice but to fire all 88 teachers for the next school year. >> i'm disheartened. i feel like after 20 years i can see some progress being to be made, and i'm sad that we're not going to be around to follow that through, to push that forward. >> reporter: a spokesman for the teachers's union called the firings, quote, drastic, and told me in the last two years reading scores have gone up 21%, math scores he said have also gone up 3%. the spokesman said that the teachers had accepted most of the changes but just wanted to work out the compensation for the extra hours of work. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> we want to hear from you on this, your thoughts about this action taken. call in 1-877-tell-hln. we want to introduce now george mclaughlin, a guidance counselor at this school. obviously disagrees with this action. george, thanks for taking time and we hope to also speak with dr. francis gallow the superintendent who made this decision.

i know you have worked at this school a long time. you have a heard for these kids. so if not this, what do these kids need because things aren't going well. >> well, things are not going well in some arenas within the school and we're trying to work on those things within those arenas, but there are other things that are going very well. one of the problems that we have in this ongoing debate about our termination and lack of improvement in the school is that statisticcle circus and how volleys of statistics are going across the bow and how most of them are inaccurate. i have the stats in front of me p.m. i'm the guidance counselor, one of three. we keep the stats on graduation rates. we keep the stats on failure rates. we've been -- we've heard a thousand times now it seems we have 50% of our students failing all their classes. it's 4.5%.

that's not a fair exchange of ideas if we're going to listen to those kind of statistics. >> so you disagree -- >> but i'm not here to talk about that. i'm here to talk about having a negotiation and putting an end to this so we can end the injury to our community in scentral falls. >> let the record state this, you disagree with the numbers and that's a discussion you need to have with the powers that be, but for right now the one statistic that jumps out -- >> not if the press is putting those things out as though they're facts. that's not fair to us, the people on the ground, and you probably were given those stats by someone else. it's not your fault, but you have to give us a chance to say we know what the stats are in some of these arenas and we have to pronounce them. it's unfair to us to defend things if they're incorrect. >> again, those are the numbers we have. you have different numbers, and you've stated your disagreement with the numbers.

but let me throw out the one statistic that really jumps out at me when you talk about the state's math exam. correct me if i'm wrong, i'm seeing 93% failure rate. 93% of the students can't pass the math exam. that seems like we need to do something drastic. your thoughts on that? >> i think that that's true. i think we do need to do things in a drastic way, but firing all of the teachers that have rapport with these students which is an essential part of trying to change these things is as far as i'm concerned deadly. we're going to start with all teachers who don't know them? that doesn't seem to make much sense to me. that's like saying the mother and the father in the family aren't getting you up in the morning so let's get another mother and a father to get in to get you up. let's make sure that the teachers within the school get the proper training and that we work with the administration so that we can make changes that are going to work, not just for

the sake of making changes and putting out press releases. >> george -- >> but things based on these children's lives. >> let's go over the change that is the superintendent asked, working a longer school day, to tutor students weekly, have lunch with the students often. will those work? and why couldn't they be immediately implemented? >> they could be immediately implemented. those things as far as i know never came to the table. management walked away and was not interested. no matter what happened in the past, we had a former senator from our state, lincoln chafee stand in front of our school and he said let's get somebody in here to maediate. that's how things get resolved. this is going to hurt our community and hurt every urban teacher in the united states if this is allowed to happen and every urban student in the

united states if it's allowed to happen, and we're trying to avoid that. we want peace and we want to go forward and we want to make sure that the future of our students is not irreparably harmed by crossing a rubicon and we'll never be able to go back and retrieve the goodness we have in our school. >> george, thank you for your time. you have heard from george mclaughlin. we're hoping to hear from the superintendent to hear the other side. dr. francis gallow set to join us. we also have an education expert that will weigh in. call in 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we're continuing our conversation. a school in rhode island took the drastic steps of firing every teacher. the school says out of 800 students half are failing every subject. 55% -- only 55% are skilled in reading, and 93% failed the state's math exam. so abysmal numbers. we just heard from george mclaughlin, a guidance counselor from the school who has been fired. he disputes those numbers. joining us is the president of the national education association in rhode island. larry, i don't know if you had a chance to hear george there. he disputes the numbers. we've got abysmal numbers coming at us from the school and lost

in the middle are parents and students who want better, who want improvement. how do we sort through all of this? >> i think firing all the teachers certainly isn't the way to do that. i think if you look at whether it's central falls, any urban area, you need to bring all the stakeholders together. you need to bring the parents, the teachers, community members together and look at what works. one of the problems i'm concerned with is that we're going to have this one thing fixes all or one issue is going to fix all the problems, and i'll use central falls as a great example. a couple years ago we were talking about an extended school day in rhode island and the former superintendent in central falls testified against it not because she didn't believe the students there needed more time, it's because it's a high poverty area and a lot of high school students work after school but they don't work for cars and fancy clothes. they have to work to help out their families. so you have to look at what's going on in the community. >> okay. >> and you look -- >> real quick, the clock is kind

of ticking on us. i don't mean to cut you off. let me read you a couple texts. teachers from kindergarten on up are responsible for these students. maybe test the teachers. there are people who say failure. teachers aren't cutting it, do something drastic because, hey, half the teachers will reapply and will be hired back. this sends a message they're mad and they're not going to take it anymore. how do you answer that and how do you answer some ever these folks that are watching this unfold? >> listen, i'm not going to blame the teachers, i'm not going to blame the parents of students. you can't say putting a highly effective teacher in the classroom is going to make all the other issues in the communities go away. we have to make sure communities have the assistance and have the money available for programs to make sure that their preschool programs and their kids come to school ready to learn and there are health programs so they come to school healthy and then if

you look at those numbers and you say half are failing every subject, well, let's look at what the reason is. is it high absenteeism? do they not have time after school for programs because they have to work? let's involve teachers and the people in the trenches. >> are you ever in favor of that drastic option? of firing everybody? >> no. and there's no research obviously -- there's no research that shows that that kind of option works. again, you need to bring all the stakeholders together, put them down and sit down and look at what works best in that community. >> okay. larry purdle, thanks for taking him, president national education association in rhode island. many of you chiming in. i think we all agree, if you're not going to fire them, you see these bad numbers you have to look at the teachers and evaluate and the ones that aren't cutting it have to go. continue the conversation on facebook if you'd like and coming up this, the man accuse of kidnapping jaycee dugard back in court. can you believe his attorney

wants us to feel sorry for the guy? because of his arrest their family was torn apart, a family built on felonies and rape?

training for the new york city triathlon is not the biggest challenge angie has faced. >> i was diagnosed with breast cancer last april and i was out of shape and when this challenge came along, i thought it would be the perfect thing. >> as you have sort of looked at the challenge that lies in front of you, what are you most nervous about and most excited about? >> well, i'm excited because i think i'll be in really good condition. i feel -- i think i will feel really healthy. i think the swimming will be great. that's what i'm most worried about is the swimming. >> but it hasn't been as big a

challenge as she anticipated. she's getting more and more comfortable in the pool. >> our other participant had her own concerns. >> there's the huge possibility of crashing and burning on tv. >> but turns out it's real life that presents the greatest challenges. >> being in the office is difficult, especially in a newspaper office because we believe in eating and eating well and eating a lot. >> and schedules. >> the workouts themselves aren't really difficult. what i find hard is managing my time to fit the workouts in. >> for both triathletes, the jurnourney ahead will be long b doable. >> there's only 150 days left, so it makes me kind of want to ramp up my efforts. >> i feel stronger all the time, but i feel like once i can get this done, i think i can close that chapter, i can put that breast cancer behind me. >> dr. sanjay gupta, cnn, reporting. the man accused of kidnapping jaycee dugard,

holding her captive 18 years in this secret backyard, he just appeared in a california courtroom. the attorney for phillip garrido wants us to be sympathetic to him. says his family has been torn apart. family, meaning his alleged partner in crime, his wife nancy, and the victims here, jaycee and here two daughters fathered by garrido while in captivity. garrido even has the audacity to ask the judge for jaycee's new address, wants to communicate with her. that's not even the half of it. so many new details coming out. back with us to talk about it lisa bloom, legal analyst for cnn. psychologist jen berman with us as well and henry lee reporter "san francisco chronicle." spell out these -- what they want in these motions, talking about garrido's defense. >> what they're saying is that the offense for both garridos want their clients to have the chance to talk to each other

behind bars. they want to not only plan their defense but talk about family issues that have been pending since their incarceration. they also want to say we want contact with jaycee and her attorney. the district attorney is saying absolutely not. >> okay. lisa, let's hit on a couple things p.m. number one, do the garridos have any right to see and speak to each other in jail? >> generally >> generally not. co-defendants cannot. attorney, of course, can communicate with each of them individually and then with each other. this family theory is preposterous. this family came about allegedly because he raped a girl. she was 13 years old and 15 years old, i believe it was, when she was impregnated with each of those child. that would be statutory rape if it wasn't actually a forceable rape. i don't see the judge giving himny traction on these arguments. >> that's infuriating. chief assistant county counsel edward napp for the prosecution, talking about the family issues saying the alleged family was created by 29 felony counts of

kidnapping, false imprisonment and rape, the garridos' invocation of the sanctity of the family is breathtaking in its audacity. very well put, lisa. where are they going with this? where is the defense going with that? >> well, look, defense lawyers are supposed to be fighting jealously for the rights of their clients. that's what they're doing. i don't even blame them for asking to contact jaycee, she's the key witness fagainst these defendants. once she says i don't want to be contacted i'm in hiding with my daughters, leave me alone, that has to be respected and crime victims have a lot of rights in california. i expect it will be. they have the right to subpoena her for trial. she has to go to trial if there is one, she has to answer questions for their attorneys on cross examination, but she does not have to cooperate with them before trial. >> when we come back from break, we'll talk about that. what if filip or nancy garrido were to communicate with jaycee dugard, how damaging would that be?