[000:00:00;00] arabia, which was supposed to start at 19:30 at naqsh jahan stadium in isfahan , due to the non-appearance of the etihad team, the match was not held. 19:30 minutes the respectable etihad team was appreciated and thanked for the opportunity to practice in the jahan stadium under the same conditions with the same standards and the same design and elements that are usually in the stadium and have been there for years. in a few moments, we realized that messages from the game supervisor from the side it was heard

that the respected officials of al-ittihad club are not ready to attend the field and request changes in the design structure inside the stadium . and the second week of the european champions league will be followed tonight with 8 matches. according to the schedule, from 25 minutes, anian berlin will face braga and salzburg will go to the same distance with susi adad. real madrid, manchester united, galatasaray, copenhagen, bayern munich, lance, arsenal, and enidhoun will face sevilla, but today is tuesday, october 11, 17 rabi awal and october 3 in tehran.

sunset will be at 5:46 p.m. maghrib call to prayer will be at 6:00 p.m. and sharia midnight will be at 11:11 p.m. well, let's go together to the economy table and join my colleague, mr. bozor tsab, mr. bozor tsab, greetings to you and qot, greetings to you, ms. mirsane. i offer my greetings and respect to all the good viewers of the economy table. happy eid . we want to do some reviews. regarding the seventh program, we want to talk about the subsidy of energy carriers. with the same introduction that i gave to you, i invite you to follow this conversation on khabar network. thank you for being with the economy desk. let's start with questions and examples. during the different years

of your life, you helped different people in cash or non-cash . what was your reason for helping ? did you help someone financially or otherwise? did you need it or not? for example, did you go to someone who has a very big house in the north of shahreh, for example, to congratulate you ? you said, for example, come and get this package of food. for example, let's get you a shelter, of course you didn't go. when did you help someone who needed to have a shelter ? you collected money for someone who needed a livelihood package. you didn't help, but over the years, the opposite has happened regarding the energy subsidy during different governments, whether it was wanted or not, different governments

gave more subsidies to people who were more wealthy. it's called a way to help. governments do this they give, but anyway, they get more subsidies, those who need the subsidy get the least, the statistics say, let's see the picture together , we will understand how this happened in different years. this is a report of the majlis research center for 2018. but the example is remarkable. naturally, we understand the first to tenth deciles. we know how the first decile is the lowest income decile of the country. the top ten is the country's income decile . thanks guys, the bottom ten should be more but this is the other way around, for example, you are now seeing orange, tweezers, and blues, you are seeing tweezers, orange, burqa, and blue gasoline, you are seeing that the first tenth of the gasoline subsidy does not make much use at all, why in the next slide, of course, i will tell you

that the second tenth of the subsidy goes the same way, so you can see for example, if this percentage is for gasoline subsidies, we are not discussing the price at all, for example, how should the price of this change, how should it be, we are discussing the distribution , which we see that the lower 10 are more needy in terms of income, but in terms of having assistance less subsidy comes and goes finally, it is also for different issues, electricity, water, gas, of course, in the last year or two, plans were considered to increase the tariff, and we had this change in the tithes in terms of gas and electricity consumption, which the tithe has. the lower ones with the subsidies that i used to give, for example, for the first 30 days, if you use the model , it will be free for you. this hit the goal of the friends here . let's see the next picture together. well, in our country, almost 50% of households do not have a car. we

have more than one car to five cars, for example, 38% of our households they have a car, and by your presence, it will be more than 11 million. we have more than 13 million households that don't have any cars. so what is the difference between these 13 million households and these 11 million households. these 11 million households have the same share of cars they have they have one car out of these 500, that is, more than 13 million households use more of these helpers. naturally, this must be corrected . this distribution must be corrected. we will talk about it, if we agree, we will report let's watch the program together, let's come back and start our conversation with the guest of the program. according to the statistics published in the international energy agency, iran pays energy subsidies equivalent to 91 billion dollars annually, which the country's high-spending minority also benefit from. subsidy payment to high consumers car fuel subsidy is one of these things that

is currently only given to its owners. according to article 311 of the 7th development law of the country , there is a law that allows the government to have a fair distribution of resources. this issue was also mentioned in the 1402 budget. to the purpose of establishing justice in benefiting from gasoline subsidies is that those families who do not own a car will receive 15 liters of gasoline per month for each family member , which must be implemented from june 2002. not one of those carriers of energy. there is gasoline, which is now explained as belonging to the car, and people may not have a car. according to the data of the ministry of welfare , about 45% of the country's households

do not own a car. meanwhile, more than 130,000 households have five or more cars the number of these cars are subsidized. tina salehi khabari, my colleague from energy analysis, we met here in the studio, mr. shariati, a member of the energy commission of the islamic shura, is present here in the studio, mr. raisi , an expert in the field of energy, and mr. zaafarian . they will be present in our other studio, miss salehi, the reporter of tahrir energy news and radio, whose reports we have seen together , is also present . if i start with mrs. salehi agree, and the report prepared by ms. salehi is a little more detailed about the statistics you used in your report. for viewers, in the name of god, greetings to you and respected viewers, the

issue of the fair distribution of energy subsidies is also mentioned in the seventh program bill. and has allowed the government to distribute this subsidy fairly among all iranians, that experts have a series of non-price policies regarding gasoline subsidies that have no effect on the increase in gasoline prices. one of these policies is the issue of gasoline subsidies . it is for people instead of cars the index that we can refer to in this regard is the same table that you mentioned, the statistics published by the ministry of welfare last year , which shows that the highest impact

of gasoline subsidies is on the top three deciles of the economy, because almost half some of the households in the country do not have a car and do not use this hidden gasoline subsidy, and on the other hand , there are more than 130,000 households in the country who have one or more than one car, and of course , they use more subsidies and the lesson of tithing. most of these families are high the law on the targeting of subsidies means that there is a contradiction in the fair distribution of subsidies

. lower that subsidy in the real sense, the higher understandings, who have better income in terms of income, should use less of this subsidy , in the name of allah, the most merciful, the most merciful. greetings to you and all the dear viewers . happy birthday to the beloved prophet of islam. and imam i congratulate jafar sadiq, peace be upon you all. what was in your report. well, the family was discussed. one of the key points that has been taken into consideration in the preparation of the 7th plan in the parliament is that we set targets based on the household. that is, every decision we make is the basis of the family, the wealth of the family, the economy of the family, the culture of the family. and this shows that the attention to the household sector is serious. it is the same in the field of energy carriers. in your report, it was also said that friends

have worked hard since 2018, which is the report of the research center , friends, to observe, dear viewers, in the field of gas. and electricity, because almost all people have access to gas and electricity and use it in some way, whether they are owners or renters , finally, the distribution of gas and electricity is used . . during the budget of 100 years after 1401 and later in the electricity sector, the law on removing obstacles to the development of the electricity industry is one of the most important laws of the 11th parliament . we made this law permanent . it includes about 75% of the people who are already in that decile if you look it includes most of the people for a level of consumption, there are subsidized tariffs, higher than the pattern of consumption

of pele , to be paid more for the increase in consumption, which is completely fair, because now it has its own mechanism, it has its own mechanism , the difference between gas and electricity is gasoline is that in the field of gas and electricity, it is based on the household because it is divided into the house and the place of residence, but in the field of gasoline, at the moment , it is based on the car. it is logical. they say that we give gasoline to people who do not use gasoline , but because here we pay subsidies. we do and the prices are not the final price, of course we can't either we have to pay the full price from all the people . we mentioned that a part of the people should be helped . in order to make this system fair, we have to go towards the household. households, how can we do this, let's say for every household consisting of several members , we should consider a quota for each national code, which now, based on the calculations we made, if this

change is made, it will be between 15 and 20 liters per month. quota can be considered for each person, it depends now, how do we calculate the rest? for now, we don't want the number to be much more important. yes, we want to get to the point of the concept. when we did this division and said that all people in the society, regardless of whether they have a car or use gasoline themselves, or they don't have a car, and they can sell the gasoline that belongs to them to others and earn an income. these people can benefit. we did this. the system is real and this mechanism is fair. it is possible for an exchange market to form in the society. i will say it again here. it is different from gas and electricity in this market let's take a look, people who don't have a car can give this quota to people who want to consume more, give it to a household that has 5 cars, so it means that they will benefit from the government's subsidy here too.

from the gasoline that he used to sell, no new gasoline is entered into the system, and part of the gasoline that he gave to other people's extra cars is given to households without cars, they exchange it in the market, and the price does not change. subsidized price and practically people who do not have their own are they actually giving it to others, or in some time , the government can buy it from them again and give them the amount, this will help us to make this system fairer to some extent . let me add this sentence that if today was the first day that we wanted to explain the energy carriers to the people , day zero, if we had given them to everyone at full price , it would definitely be better than the current situation, because it was also in the report. on the contrary, now it means that those who need

the most benefit less from the subsidies. in fact, this is a pyramid subsidies are based on the tip of the ground, not on the basis of the rule. whatever it is, the lower classes benefit more to the tip of the shrine, which reaches less. now, it is exactly the opposite of this shrine and causes disharmony. what do you think, what is the state of consumption now? of course, we we cannot ignore the role of, for example, the consumption of cars or, for example, the standard state of consumption of our electrical equipment, but we are talking about the concept of distribution . let's help the lower dogs more for justice benefit from this subsidy that we are explaining, in the name of allah, i say hello to you and all the dear viewers , i also congratulate you on this blessed day of eid. first, let's take a better look at the diagram that you presented. there was a little hair . let's take a closer look and see how the subsidy we have

is in the carriers. if we look at the same chart a little more closely, we give the subsidy we have in gasoline in the first decade, and it is almost 17 times the first decade . he is getting gasoline subsidy. if we look at this ratio in electricity and gas, mainly it is in the domestic sector, because most of the houses actually have access to branches, and because of the implementation of ibiti's pricing policy in the last 3-4 years, this distance has nearly tripled, so we are mainly focusing on redistribution and priority. we are for the redistribution of energy subsidies in the gasoline sector, and the same solution that mr. doctor also said, that in fact, the allocation of subsidies is actually the allocation of quotas to national codes and the creation of a market that has the ability to exchange, so that surplus gasoline can be sold to those who do not need it.

those who need more can buy from the quota and consume them, so this solution is definitely a good solution, the priority is actually a kind of trial, but it was stopped and there was no more news about it. yes, that plan was actually implemented in kish pilot, its problems were resolved , it was a relatively successful plan it is possible that in fact this will come on a wider level , now the pilot should actually happen in one or two provinces first and then expand to the country. that is, sell the systems that want to do this make a new share, the exchange should be done, not from a conceptual point of view , it was not implemented correctly, the infrastructure worked perfectly, the infrastructure worked, from the technical point of view, the technology of that software, that market, there were two problems in the concept

. we should have come to perform in tehran. we would have performed in isfahan, for example. one or two, at the same time, we should keep the share of the cars and the share of the people. well, this completely confuses the concept of work. families, i'm sorry, i mean we have a technical problem in terms of infrastructure it was successful. we should run a pilot in one of the provinces that better show the reality of the country. this pilot is correct in one of the provinces, mr. doctor . it is not a suitable pilot for the country. another pilot should be implemented in one of the provinces, then it is possible . now i want to discuss more. i would like to point out that the priority is not to explain the subsidy on electricity and gas, but you said that in terms of consumption, if we look at general indicators in the world , our energy intensity index is two to two and a half times the world average , three to four times that of developed countries. and our per capita consumption is twice the world average in the same way does all this problem come back to people's bad consumption? no, the equipment

that is available to the people who ride the heater has a limit, which is the efficiency of the heater they have in their homes. consumption behavior is also effective. what kind of approach should be taken in electricity and gas? in fact, the discussion that we are discussing in the approvals as a supervisor of the 7th plan, in fact, the general approaches were stated in the government bill, but in the 7th plan, i was examining the approvals , a very approach. the good that has been adopted in the seventh plan is to talk about making people save money. in fact, there are energy carriers . again, there is a priority for electricity and gas, which means we want to give them a market and give them an id . from this subsidy, yes, it is a subsidy in its place. what does he say about that policy? he says that i actually sat in my house

and it is winter. wear warm clothes if it is combined and combined it is possible with a long-term economic incentive for the people , that is, me , who is spending the figure, for example, i am consuming 600 cubic meters per diem , i am consuming it in the fall. if i can actually reduce this by 100 cubic meters, the government will actually buy it at a significant price that creates an economic incentive, for example, close to the price of petrochemicals. i use cubic meters, i have 500,000 tomans per month , besides, i have the motivation to contribute socially to the country, if this motivation to create a long-term economy. well, in the first step, what do people do? they close the doors and windows, turn off the extra heater, put on warm clothes , and use this economic id. in the second step, if

this is long-term, what do they do? in fact, the third step is to insulate their windows and walls, even with the help of the government, they can install efficient heaters in their houses. this will actually create a movement in the general atmosphere of the country, then they can be issued a certificate. to buy and sell in the market means that there is again this logic of market making buying and selling here is based on savings certificates. we also explained the difference between gasoline and gas and electricity in terms of the logic of subsidy distribution and in terms of the logic that we can actually provide. thank you. let's go to mr. raisi who there are people present in our other study, mr. raisi, please tell me that we talked about this. there were some problems, for example, in the previous plans. do you think that in the 7th plan, how should the government come up with this explanation to redistribute subsidies more equitably? which we are talking about

and i will make it happen in the name of allah, the merciful i would also like to say hello to dear huzar and the viewers of this program and congratulate masoud mubarak on this day. i was listening to my friends and they correctly pointed out the contents and solutions of the seventh program. i have studied article 46. well, some strong points i had a series of weak points that, god willing, will be compensated and become better . i was talking to my friends, dr. shariati, as if i saw this article and took it into account. our fellow companies in cooperation with friends last year for national broadcasting company and we did the oil product, a point to summarize friends. mr. doctor correctly said. if i want to say the energy market, i want

to divide it into three parts in order to separate them. i saw that they are mixed in many places. we have an energy optimization market that focuses on investment and renovation of energy-consuming equipment. we have a special market, or we have a pixshing, that when we get unbalanced gas, especially in the winter season. the summer season gas should come for the government's electricity with an incentive mechanism, even the payment of a sum of money, or according to the words of mr. zaafarian, it should issue bonds according to your schedule. the promissory note is only valid for two weeks, and those who save energy, not optimize , have an income, and the third market width is the discussion of yaran energy , which came in 2089 with the right intention , but the implementation method was wrong, and several

laws we have not been able to comply with several laws, but in regulations and other issues , the intensity of energy consumption in our country has not only decreased, but according to the words of mr. dashakrian , it has been three or four times that of developed countries. i will look at the case and answer your question the imitation field started, then the regulations in different governments with different policies, the current situation is this , we have reached a state of fundamental challenge and it is slowly becoming a crisis. well, my question is as an expert, now we are in the private sector, academics , politicians, especially politicians in the field of energy. an energy specialist like dr. shariati, who is actually an expert in the ministry of energy, so what is the guarantee that we will issue a plan and law and implement it and reduce the intensity in 4 years? there are some challenges that this should

be seen . or politics if the software is suitable to solve a problem, it will not lead to the challenge of crisis. this time lag, this time delay will cause the time to become, as the famous saying goes, medicine after death . this is something that we should consider very much. we don't have natrazia, it is at its peak that we have nothing to do with the political side to implement all this policy. i don't have anything at all. i mean energy policy, another policy. yes , yes, energy policy, yes, energy. in the field of energy consumption, work is chained there is no energy supply, in the field of energy consumption, we really did not have the necessary infrastructure to be able to make a good decision and implement it, many good ideas

came, good laws came, but because in the field of implementation , it was given to the ministry of home affairs, such as power and oil, to be implemented. do you mean that between the two home ministries in charge of water, electricity, gas, and gasoline, things like that have not been very evident during the past years ? the same is true of if piloto, i think for gasoline, it's better now technically, i almost know what is going on in the field of gas and gasoline, the existing technical infrastructure, the ability to implement the current correct estimation policies , which does

not have a friendly period. let him enter and have only a regulatory role. thank you , mr. shariati . how much infrastructure do you think we need in order to explain these subsidies more fairly in the way we are talking about them today? the same test models that you mentioned implemented these. yes, just like pointing out our correctness from the past years in the general policies announced by the supreme leader , in the general policy of the fifth plan, then the general policies of the sixth plan, the general policies of the resistance economy. the mother and comprehensive law of reforming the energy consumption pattern of 2089, we almost did not lack anything in the legislation , except for one or two items that i will present now, and there everything was determined. we were supposed to implement and install the energy intensity program in the country within 10 years. let's do it now , what is the reason?

let's discuss, one issue is that this model that we followed for the implementation of this policy and this model had problems in its implementation . until now, no one has been seen in the seventh program. we have a trustee in the field of production. of course, we also have a consumption optimization organization. now, in the production field of the ministry of oil, we are the trustee of the country's oil and gas production and inspections in the field of electricity. niru is in charge of water. now we have electricity, which carries more energy we say where our consumption is, it is in agriculture, it is in construction, it is everywhere in the country, all areas are consumers, but we said that in the ministry of oil, there is a subsidiary of the national oil company, whose mission

is to produce, the mission of mel company reports, mr. khojazste , that mr. we had so much toli and so much sales, the minister is saying this, the mission of thinking and thinking correctly in the ministry of petroleum production should be the same. the mission of the ministry of petroleum production in the field of electricity is the same as that of the ministry of energy, which is to follow up the power plant to be produced renewable. various discussions of existential philosophy for optimization . they are not in the law at all if you look at the powers and duties of ablution, he has mentioned a sentence, for example, in these few pages , who will help in the discussion of nose building , who will be the trustee ? having nine possibilities to provide for this in the laws. now, this is the first part of the trustee in the laws. when we want to make the trustees successful , we must create an incentive. in saving , i mentioned in a conference, i said that if we set the law in this way, the incentives