. rechecks pert john gray said mars and venus are still colliding in the workplace. he will tell us what we get wrong with the opposite sex at work. and learn how the bay area jewish vocational service can help you find work. i'm susan sikora and that is on bay area focus. next.

. >> welcome to the show. i'm susan sikora. last year, about half of the country's workforce were women. though we think we know how to work professionally with the opposite sex, relationship expert john gray said men and women are still blind to each other's expectations at work. he explains the blind spots and how to fix them in his new book "work with me." john gray, welcome back. always fun to have you here. >> always happy to be here. >> first, i have to ask you one thing. this is the 17th book in.

>> the 24th. >> okay. who is counting. >> 17 best-sellers. >> all right. with all of those books, is this the first time you co- authored with someone? >> that is the first coauthor. >> i notice it's a woman. >> happens to rock stars after they stop dropping down. >> no, no. [ laughter ] >> this is what i want to know. >> she's a woman and has been teaching gender differences in the work place for 30 years. >> yeah, so have you. >> yes. yes. >> you have been doing this, too. >> yes. >> did you get to the point as not only the expert on this but a man, who i assume you do everything right at home. >> my wife will give mia,s. >> okay. >> sometimes a-plus. sometimes c. >> were you fining that you needed the information from a woman to get the right information out it now? >> we -- out there new? >> we had a meeting three years ago. it was fun to collaborate. she knows things i didn't know and i know things she didn't know. she speaks with a woman's voice and from the ownership of some of the challenges that women face that i can't own because

i'm a man. she talks about her early stages in the workplace where she was very successful executive in a big company. she said to be successful, she had to become like a man. and after a while, she felt like a bit schizophrenic. i have to be a man at work and rime tieing to be a woman at home. she was experiencing exhaustion, her marriage was having challenges. she said i had to find another way to do this. >> uh-huh. >> she realized lots of women become what is called the third sex, women who become man and those women, i have been talking about, that i say it in terps of women who tend to not balance their lees properly. you can see physiologically that if you're in a job of urgency and emergency, sacrifice for money, any of those aspects where you don't love it, the women's stress levels go higher than men. >> uh. >> as long as he comes home and the wife's happy to see him, doesn't cause him stress. >> oh. because men have 30 times

more testosterone then women. it helps men cope with stress andp hints a hormone in a woman's body that lowers her stress. so 50 activity on -- testosterone inhibits oxyis toin, the relationship hormone that lowers women's stress. >> if she's going to work and feeling stressed and having to be a man at work, kind of, the third sex, she ins home and doesn't know what to be. he's not happy to come to see her. >> she comes home more stressed. >> and i am all for equality. >> uh-huh. >> and you achieve it not by saying we're the same but recognize and appreciate the differences. >> uh-huh. >> diversity is what makes success. that is what america is based on, diversity, ideally. >> you're saying that the workplace was created by men for men. this is 2013. and there was a line in your book like for 50 years, it's been changing or supposedly, it's been a changed workforce but we still don't get it.

what is wrong with us? >> what happens, you have a foundation that is structured and that is the way men think in the workplace. what are the goals? bottom line, make money. time is money. >> uh-huh. >> and that is fine if you have 30 times more testosterone. you can postpone your gratification when you get home. if you're a woman, time is money and she feels a sense of urgency and that inhibits oceanes toin that -- oxytocin that lowers her stress n. norway and switzerland where they're equal, women's stress levels are twice as high in the workplace and four times higher at home. >> yikes. you must be busy over there. they must call you all of the time. >> they love and hate me. [ laughter ] >> okay. >> it's a real love-hate -- half of the country hates me. and they love me. >> we're laughing about it but you say this costs money. time is money -- money. complains are money, too. >> and let me face the point on time is money. that is the work world.

everyone's like suck it up, get the job done and do what it takes to get that done. and that is not healthy for women and men. what women bring in is not only the ability to see the differences between men and women in a positive way, but to appreciate the differences. and that is what is miss missing in the workplace. one of the female values that women clamor for, we want more flexibility, better job conditions, equal pay, fulfillment -- they're personal fulfillment. >> uh. >> and women are saying let's bring personal full pillment into the work-- fulfillment into the workplace. that is part of being a man, you suck it up and get the job done. >> and that is created for him. >> women are designed to talk about the problems. woman's bodies have a feedback loop when you talk about problems. it releases oxytocin lowering your stress levels. >> okay. tell me this. >> all right. >> if we're having the problem,

the women want different ways of working. >> and that is right. someone comes in. >> right. >> and we're going to do things differently now because women are here. the men are mentally rolling their eyes. >> in the beginning, they roll their eyes and they go really? really? women are really different? >> are they resisting it? >> they resist until you point it out to them. that is hard to get in the door. >> and then they have a change of habit, john. >> men are so flexible. women don't understand men at all. if a man says i can build a better toaster, he'll do it. if he can be convinced what the book does, it shows men what value women bring to the table and the gold mine that men are missing. for example, this is an example. >> okay. >> and five people sitting at a table and two women, three men. kicking the ball back and

forth. one woman has higher testosterone and is jumping in. there is a big conversation and two women are listening. the men mistakenly assume that they have nothing to say. a mistaken assumption. if a man was in that soccer game, we asen know he has nothing to say. >> uh-huh. >> he's a loser that day and we're not going to ask him a question. >> what is she doing? is she checking out because she doesn't like soccer or thinks they're dominating and can't get in? >> she's trying to get in. like she's trying to get into the conversation. part of what she's doing is she's thinking more deeply and they have more activity in their brain than men. they have 9 times more matter that connects to the brain. she's trying to be a good listener, listening, listening, listening. she just needs someone to pause and say susan, what are you thinking about here? what do you think on this? i know you have had a lot of experience on that. she pausees and has a wealth of

contribution to come forth that never gets seen. the evidence of this, it's not just me talking, we did a survey of 250,000 men and women. and 90% of the women felt excluded in the workplace and 90% of the men said yes, are women excluded? no. >> okay. >> this is a blind spot. >> i think we need to take a break. we'll talk about where you start with this. who wants to be the first one to change the game, especially one or two women and there are more men there and other practical things you can do man or woman. stay with us.

sno welcome back. work with me is the title of john gray's new book. you know him from the whole mars-venus philosophy basically. 24 books and this is the first one he's co-authored with a woman who informed some of the things and turns out we're not getting it right in the workplace. first of all -- first of all, let's get sexual harassment out of the way. i assume, are you talking about that or not? some -- as recently as what, the mayor of san diego. >> i know. this is shock. what an idiot. excuse me for calling him an idiot. come on. >> our civic leaders, okay. talk about the workplace. our civic leaders are messing things and they're bright, you think think if they're not so bright, people will fix them so they bright by the time they

hit a microphone and get to people. >> right. >> if they're not getting it right? and this is a subset of the book. what is missing is a conversation between men and women where men start to get women and men are not able, the men who do that and that stress in the workplace. even enlightened guys don't often understand women. i am an enlightened guy. my assistant came to me 30 years ago, the beginning of men are from mars series. she said i want to quit. why do you want to quit? she said i don't feel appreciated. i appreciated her. i said why don't you feel appreciated? she said you don't know what i do. and i said that is why i appreciate you. i don't know what. >> you get it done. >> right, my dog doesn't know what it is about getting the food for her. she loves that food so much.

and that is men. all you have to do is appreciate what they do and we go good job. >> all right. >> women are different. they want to you understand and that is what she told me and some people will say there is someone who needs jobs and if you don't like n. >> right. >> and it's not just -- . >> where else are you going to go? >> it's not just women in the workplace but women in the workplace having problems with men and in managerial or executive positions. >> oh. the third-sex woman is worse than a guy. >> because? >> we did a study and there are 70% of women who prefer a male manager. because one of the problems with women is that in their conversation, they ask a lot of questions. >> uh. >> and men feel that is the most annoying thing. in our survey of over 150,000 men, the most annoying thing is women asking questions. ironically, the women who become queen bee syndrome, they

start asking everybody questions and micromanage and women don't like it and men don't like it. >> oh,. >> and that is too much control. >> that is the third sex nobody likes. >> right. >> and in the '9090s, in silicon valley, it was ceo women. acting like bullies. you have to learn how to be an executive and then have more practice at it and women can learn. at the same time, where women can interact with queen bee's, that is to learn how to interact with them. that is a good idea. instead of opposing, that is a good idea. >> that is what the woman should say? >> yes. >> and the man is talking -- . >> look, that is a good idea? >> and that is a good idea. help me understand that, the first thing. >> uh-huh. >> and they like to be helpers. >> he doesn't know the question? >> and what you do is come back and say your point of view. ask less questions. often they ask leading questions to make a point.

>> oh. and make the point? >> make the point. >> jump in. >> they won't resent me. >> they will if you jump in and say yes, but -- . >> and you're antyiot. >> there is a fines to this. they know where the ego is and how to dodge it. that is a good idea, i never heard of that or thought of it. that is the stupidest thing i heard but it's done nicely. >> you say to them, okay, that is a good idea and i was thinking -- . >> that's right. >> then what are the other two things? >> you're sitting at a table and women make an idea and some guy takes it and takes all credit for it. she's like how did he take my idea? you have to take it back. the way is like a game. men are intensionally doing this to you. they take your idea and piss on it and make it their idea. you have to take it back and you say, you know, that is a good idea i remember when i mentioned it. you don't go that is my idea. >> right. >> that is awful.

so you suck it inside and opposed to play the game. >> uh-huh. >> and there is a communication style that you have to work with. >> can they interrupt interrupt? >> yes. >> i remember debra canon did a thing a couple of years ago. don't quote me exactly. she basically said that men interrupt women a lot. you see this all of the time. >> all of the time. >> i don't care if you're at a cocktail party but they will chit chat and the woman will talk and a man will interrupt her and the woman almost never interrupt. >> that's right. >> should she interrupt? >> if she feels comfortable into doing that. >> is that third sex behavior? >> you can be a woman and interrupt a guy. guys don't mind being interrupted as long as your point is congruent with his point. you can't but is and -- interrupt and change the subject and say we're leaving this out. you're not thinking about this and women will often do because their minds, they see holistically, they seeing the bigger picture. men tend to focus on one thing and if you interrupt and you're like focused on the same point, you interrupt, the guy goes okay, i will listen to that. >> all right. >> if you have something else,

wait a second. you're changing the subject. >> we're out of time. true or false, one-word answer. you can only change yourself but not the other people. >> i love it. >> that is three words, i'll take it. >> okay. [ laughter ] >> the book is called "work with me." there is practical ideas for what you can do in the workplace and how you can change yourself in that workplace so it's a better place for you. you request can go up the ladder and co-written with barbara annis. get in touch with john gray and the rest of his work and workshops and other things he's got going on. marsvenus.com. john gray, always fun to have you here. >> always fun. thank you, susan. >> stay with us, more ahead. ,,,

. >> welcome back. jewish vocational services or jvs started in no one 73 to help re-- 1973 to help recent jewish grads find work. forty years later, they expanded the service to anyone who needs help finding a job. here with details, we welcome from jvs, abby snay, the executive director. nice to you have here and thanks for coming in. >> thank you for having me. >> and let's get it clear. you don't have to be jewish to love or -- [ indiscernible ] >> absolutely not. part of the values are helping everyone to repair the world. we're a broad-based organization helping over foe thousand people a year from literally every walk of life. >> you're a non-profit. i assume the service is free if someone comes to you for help? >> the service is subsidized. someone is paying for it.

>> if i need help, i don't have to put money out to get work if i need work. >> no, for people needing ideas in changing careers and career coaching, we have career coaching for which we harm a slight fee. >> -- charge a slight fee. >> uh-huh. >> people looking for work, the services are free for them. >> and don't turn anyone away, it sounds like. what if someone comes in and they're older, they have been out of the job for awhile. they're going to be hard to place. that their is an age situation, there is still discrimination out there against it and they're out and looking for a long time, a year or more. there are people out there like that right now. where do you start? >> i'm glad you're starting with the example. the people you describe are the largest group of people now. people long-term unemployed who have been out of job for several years, tend to be 40, 50, 60, we saw a woman who is 75 and looking for work. and people get discouraged.

>> uh-huh. >> they lose confidence in a way that is in their way putting the best foot forward. age discrimination is a real thing and people internalize that. >> and where do you start with that? zoo we start with helping people be clear on the kind of worky that looking for. help them articulate a focus. the most successful job search is one with a clear focus. we help people build their skills to do jobs, especially older people who need to upgrade their skills. >> i'm assuming technical skills? >> yeah. >> the phone apps now, what it is, huh? >> and also the latest version of word and excel and comfort with some different technology and the technology involved looking for work changeed so drastically. >> huh. >> since many people looked for work before. we're using classes and linked in and twitter. >> uh-huh. >> and looking for work that people need to have. >> after you get the group over the resistance, let's say, how

much -- what is the issue is rate to get them placed? >> in the last year, close to 1,000 people got jobs through jvs. people are getting jobs and they're getting them every day. >> okay. >> and having said that, they're looking at very long and very discouraging job searches. >> even with your help? >> yeah. part of what we do is to help people develop the skills and connects and help them with support so that they can sustain themselves through long job searches. one of the things we're learning is how affective it is for people to work in groups together. we're doing group-based training more and more and people are finding support from each other. they're sharing leads and ideas, and we're spawning off what we're calling success teams, where a group will continue working on its own. >> what kind of jobs are you seeing? and what other needs are out

there? and people say i need workers and can't fill the job. >> jvs take a sector-based approach and we focus on the sectors that are hiring and offering people opportunities for advancement. >> which are? >> health care. the biggest one we're working on. >> do you mean people who have to be like care givers, certified nurse assistance or is it higher than that? are we looking at people to train as rns? >> healthcare error very one of the largest sectors in the city. ucs is the second largest employer next to the city and county. healthcare offers jobs at multiple levels and one of the frustrating things about san francisco is despite the low unemployment rate, we have a polarized labor market and growing in equality here and

the fattest growing jobs are at the top and pyramid at the bottom. we're working with people to train them to be home care attendants, we're working with people to work in administrative positions, at large employers. >> isn't that going to change? as the affordable care act kicks in, isn't the paper and the needs to kind of process that going to change? >> and providers contribute and that is the skill people have to have to work in mel -- in healthcare. we're finding that we don't interest among the healthcare providers customer service skills. as their reimbursement is increasingly linked to patient satisfaction. >> uh-huh. >> and we're working with employers to work with employees, custodial staff to improve the customer service for patients. >> what is your advice for recent graduates? i am assuming that someone who comes out of any one of a

number of colleges with a few had -- four-year degree and a hefty college loan to pay back is not going to want some low- paying position on the other hand. they don't want to sit at home with mom and dad and try to get work and not succeed. >> young adults at the other age of the spectrum are having huge challenges, as you know, finding jobs. one of the biggest bits of advice we give them is they have done so much in their lives sitting online, and to be successful finding a job, they have to do more than apply the jobs they find on the internet. we teach classes and, in fact, i am going to be moderateing a workshop today and informational introducing. young adults is to -- have to get out and meet with people and jobs and agrees that are of interest to them to learn more about the industries and jobs to develop a network and to

improve their skills in interviewing. >> this is like you call somebody, a cold call or does it have to be a friend of the friend that introduced you? >> well, the best way to make contact is through recommendation. not everyone has that. people can use their alumni networks, people can talk to neighbors, people are working at the bus stop and you said calling. that is e-mail. the standard. communication. >> that's right. yeah. okay. >> and i don't know about twittering and testing, depends on your grammar and how important that is to the person receiving it. we have -- we have to leave. we're out of time. thank you very much for being here. for more information, go to jvs.org or call 391-3600. that is 391-3600. and we leave you now with the magnificent sound of our own san francisco symphony who perform in many venues throughout the year. for tickets and information,

visit sfsymphony.org. i'm sick. thank you for watching. -- i'm susan sikora. thank you for watching. ,,,,,,,,

in for anne makovec. i'm phil matier. . it's 8:30 on this sunday morning, the 12th of january 2049. good morning, everybody. i'm michelle griego in for anne makovec. >> i'm phil matire. >> and there is a lot to talk about. >> the big story, the 49ers. >> no question about it and we'll look at how some local businesses are trying to get a boom out of the game in carolina and mark takes us to candlestick for die-hard fans looking live as well? >> and we're going to look at the park and the people who have been there too the last time. >> and -- there through the last time. >> and the state budget. let's not forget about that and we're going to sit down with