>> dickerson: welcome back. we're back with more this former president vat candidate and current donald trump supporter dr. ben carson. dr. carson pick up where we left off on the question of immigration. you said donald trump wants to enforce the laws. so that logically leads to conclusion that 11 million people who are in the country illegally enforcing the lawsul but when you press the campaign on that, that's what has to be worked out which a lot of people who have been in this -- paid attention to this issue for awhile here as code. that's building a back door to ultimately not deport the 11 million who are in america and are undocumented. >> it's not really code. it's using our heads. using common sense. we have laws and regulations for a reason.

been applying them, that's both democrats and republicans. it's very much like your home. because somebody wants to come to your home, do you let them in? no, you want to know who they are. you want to know who -- if they are your son or daughter's friend, you say, make sure that you understand who this person is. it's the same thing that we want to do now we want to protect the american people. particularly at a time when we know that there are people out there who >> dickerson: so i guess the last question, do you have any doubt that donald trump will begin once he becomes president, deporting the 11 million who are in america and are undocumented? >> well, certainly the individuals who have committed crimes, who keep coming back and who ice demands be let loose into our communities, those people will no longer be bothe

cities. we will begin to do things that make sense. this should be something that appeals to all americans, as far as i'm concerned it should not be a partisan issue. we're talking about our safety and our security for ourselves and for our progeny. >> dickerson: donald trump had harsh words for hillary clinton he called her a bigot you suggest he not use that word, why? >> well, one of the left wing publications, i was asked abo of terminology, racist, bigots all these kind of things are detracting from the real things that we need to be talking about. of course they just say, carson says, trump shouldn't use this word. but, you know, i think people are getting sophisticated enough to read through the lines now and understand that issues that face america are gigantic. and they're going to have a big

important. because it's two completely different philosophies. one says, let's take the pie and redivide it equitably redistribute, let's make lots of pies, grow this thing tremendously. these are very different philosophies. and there are those who don't want to talk about the issues, they want to pick on these little words that people say so we can divert attention away. let's talk about the issues, this is vitally important and ev their position, don't try to hide your positions and deceive people and to thinking something else. >> dickerson: fair enough. but the word bigot means something very spes i have particular people. and it goes to what the candidates, head of the democratic party has in her heart if she is bigot at heart anything she says about those issues is discounted. so this isn't just a kind of side word this goes to the heart of her motivations about a whole set of policies that he's

when this is -- charge being made against her? >> well, it's not wise to engage in a name calling at all. hillary clinton is calling him a racist trying to associate him with the klu klux klan, where did the ku klux klan came from, it came from the democratic party. who is the party of slavery, party of jim crow and discrimination, what was the party that pushed through the the civil rights legislation. and voting rights. that was the republicans. abolitionist party, democrats come along saying, yeah, i know, but it all switched. and republicans became democrats what a total lie. there's no evidence of that whatsoever. a small group of people. still going on, still manipulating, still using, still lying. do we want to talk about that, yes, we do want to talk about it to some degree. but we really need to talk about the issues that affect the quality of life of our children.

20 trillion dollars in debt, what is that going to do to them? why don't we talk about these things. >> dickerson: let me ask you about the pitch that donald trump made to the african american community in his speech, this is donald trump saying, what do you have to lose by trying something new like donald trump. you live in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58% of your youth sun employed. what the hell do you have to use. what do you make -- what do you think that have pitch how it will be received? >> well, again, you want to listeno he's talking about progressive movement and they're ruling and major cities of our nation. what has that led to in the last 30, 40, 50 years, more poverty, more incarceration, broken homes out of wedlock births, high school dropouts. how is that a success? why do we want to continue that. we need to look at something else and you're going to hear

which i admit, they have been late to the game, we should have been into this a long time ago because the policies that have been espoused or good policies but they have not been expressed in a way that people are going to is understand or listen to them. that's why he's being attacked because you're not supposed to attack the sacred cow this is our -- these are our people, these are our voting block, don't you dare come in here. a lot of people in the black community are very, very intelligent they're going to be listening very carefully to what is being said by both sides and they're going to be making in diligent decisions. >> dickerson: last question based on medical expertise you mentioned they should release medical records, as a doctor, what do you make of some people and other doctors diagnosing candidates, kind of on television and from the sidelines? is that something that should be

but i think one of the ways to eliminate that kind of speculation is for both candidates to release their medical records. as people get older, a lot of things begin to go wrong with their bodies. and i think the american people have a right to know, because we're dealing with two older candidates what their health status is because it's a very intense job, it's not eight hours a day, it's 24-7 with constant stress. we need to know that we have a >> dickerson: made that case privately to mr. trump who you're in communication with? >> i have talked to him about the health records and health concerns this week. i think he's perfectly willing to release that information as long as she releases her's as well. >> dickerson: dr. ben carson thanks for being with us we'll be right back. hey, it's the p'! there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try these delicious phillips' fiber good gummies,

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cover moment to moment donald trump's rhetorical and possible policy shifts on immigration. it's very hard to keep up. it really is. obviously he was trying to pivot away from a very hard position, he understands that he has a floor, he understands that he has a ceiling, the floor, his core supporters want to hear that tough rhetoric but he knows that he's not punching through a ceiling unless he softens, this whole week has been this vertigo inducing kind of spinning, trying to please all camps what he's doing is risk can, alienating the base without punching through the ceiling convincing people that he's softening as the word goes. >> dickerson: ceiling that jeffrey is talking about this notion that there are republican women voters, college educated voters who are looking for some proof, they don't like hillary clinton so they're going to grab anything they can but some proof that donald trump is softening that he's listening to advice. is this a gambit towards that

conway she certainly somebody who helped close that women's gap for republicans for 20 years. what's interesting when you close the hispanic gap, is start to sound more inclusive instead of the white hot rhetoric, but more inclusive, you actually close the women's gap as well. and that's where they are aiming, not so much communities of color i think as white independents. >> dickerson: sit working based on your re week at a rally in florida, it was working, because the argument -- trump supporters to begin with they made clear as long as the wall is untouched, as long as it's still built basically, we have no problem with him modulating here on everything else. so if he made no news on the wall, still in the system that mexico would pay for it to them they were fine with that. maybe 2% disapproval rating with hispanics not going anywhere there.

covering jeb bush and marco rubio a year ago while immigration policy was pretty clear, they would suddenly modulate every once in awhile say something slightly different you have to be attuned to that. i think that folks covering trump closely got a taste this week. but at the end of the week he's back to where he was. nothing changed i think, leslie is right, may have confused things enough for some voters who were step particular call at least he was talking about when in reality nothing will change. >> we ex select the shilly-shally but donald trump built his brand on it, on immigration, his central signature issue. >> correct. i would say this week has been a very muddled week for whatever that immigration message s. his brand has been one of decisiveness, it will be one of -- deportation, explicitly talked about deportation force several months ago. when you asked kellyanne or name himself have to wait and see now

softened tone going to win him any new supporters, but will it alienate the base, people who brought him here. >> there's a -- you can ask marco rubio or john mccain what happens when you shift on immigration, because among hardliners there's no going back. there's two key words, there's amnesty and the wall. on those areas, hardliners never move but losing issue for republicans, it is not possible to build wall across border, not going to happen. you have the rio grand river, a flood plain just not feasible. i think the resalt, somewhere in the middle they have to find approach that works. >> dickerson: where are we in -- last week donald trump expressed regret, leslie talked about the talent for helping candidates pitch to different constituencies, where are we in the donald trump evolution, is this a new version of donald trump, when he called hillary

people concerned that he was going back to the old trump, where do things stand? >> i don't see any real discernible movement towards a warmer, fuzzier trump when he says things like that, when he fires off these tweets about dwyane wade's cousin, a few hours later expressing condolences, when he continues to talk about -- or his surrogates talk about deportation force or illegals or the hispanics, none of that and voters i talk to, the experts that look at this say, like this is -- going to be transactional like that may just make it worse for him in any attempt toe try to be unifying figure. if it gives some comfort to skeptical republicans, fine. but they should have been expressing that concern a year ago. this has been baked for awhile. >> it is late to be -- try the unifying figure thing, i would

was one of his biggest assets was the decisiveness, this is a sort of confused version where, okay, where does he stand after all? people talk about the bigot, he called hillary clinton a bigot this came after a pretty blistering speech that hillary clinton gave on which was striking one, it was not actually a name calling speech it was using his own words, his own policies, own history, pretty and what was striking about the reaction, other than donald trump staying she's a bigot, there was really -- unless i missed it not lot of republican leaders, traditional republicans who rise to his defense which i think spoke volumes, maybe more so than whatever came out of his -- >> the purpose that have, one of the purposes that have speech was to force him to revert back to his usual self which is, he

that he would say something, bigot in this case, that again trying to bring him back to what they think of as his true nature where his moving, i think, again, on immigration and other issues. confrontational, the harsh language how much they try to muddy it up this week, we're back to where we were. >> dickerson: also hillary clinton trying to change the top frick her own bad news which we'll switch to in a moment, leslie let me ask you what hillary clinton tried to do, cut off republicans from trump saying, he has this relationship to this nationalist, racist group but that's not republicans. do you think that will be successful, she's defending the party against donald trump. does hillary clinton have any standing to do that? >> a lot of republicans try to do the same thing earlier in the primary. finally came out if we go back to earlier this year is donald trump disavowed, denounced any of these organizations, these extremists who supported his campaign distance himself to the

waited too too long, in the media cycle especially in iowa where accusations of robo calls. that were impacting the caucus caucuses. i don't think it's new, i don't think it's particularly effective because on that particular issue, people made up their mind. now they're trying to decide, if it's the lesser of two evils so to speak, really not tone at this point. >> i would say -- sorry. >> i would just -- to me when she talks like that what's less voters it's about sort of reminding republican law makers that when you get back to town, should i be president, i still want to work with you. i understand the difference between you, paul ryan and mitch mcconnell than you donald trump. that if i'm going to be successful president i'm go to need to find way to work with you on something, that to me just code. sort of saying to them, i see the difference. >> although i do think it is targeted directly at republican voters particularly suburbs of cleaved, denver, so forth. if you look at the numbers since

she's probably gained eight or nine points from the deficit she was coming in. she's are republican voters, the democratic convention was geared very, very explicitly, very clearly i think at republicans, mainstream republicans, jeb bush, marco rubio, what have you. it's been very auto incometive and going to continue. >> dickerson: they see him trying to pivot saying you can't visit '. >> i i don't think that it's only directed at republicans. this is to get out to vote attempt by hillary clinton to remind hispanics, blacks, asians, everyone, that these are the people he's associated with. very important to add to mobilize those numbers, that's how you do it. i don't think it's ineffective at all. it's very effective to remind people that david duke likes donald trump. that -- >> same kind of argument made in 2008 when people were talking about the alignments and associations that barack obama had through history of his grass roots campaigning.

especially republicans when it comes to hillary clinton. for many republicans never thought they see position of voting for hillary clinton, not going to be moved on this identity politics as much as who is going to be changing the direction. >> dickerson: we'll be talk talk about hillary clinton's news this week. stay with us we'll be back in a

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>> dickerson: we're back with more from our politics panel. mark, i'll start with you, hillary clinton this week, two disclosures two, developments. one set of e-mails that showed a cozy relationship between staffers of the clinton foundation and staffers at the state department. and 15,000 railroad so new weren't turned over from the home brew server. take either one of those you want and whether this is coming up periodically, one expect it will until. >> it is a dull ache for them. what's interesting about this week it links the two kind of big lurking issues. e-mail and the foundation. really sort of brought them together into the same conversation. this is a bad week for -- should have been bad week for the clinton campaign i think, again,

hillary clinton's health and what have you. but you do sort of wonder why the foundation at least, lot of people suggest, why not turn over the operations of the foundation going forward to say gates foundation or someone who knows how to do this, incorporate all the resources, it's complicated but it could foreclose a lot of these suspicions, it could be sort of decisive answer. and i think they're unwillingness to do this try to sort of litigate this maybe more than they need to, of -- something between entitlement and maybe false confidence. >> dickerson: sheer what i wonder, about 30% of the people trust her, response from the clinton camp to these questions of this, these e-mails clearly show that when somebody from the clinton foundation sends an e-mail there's fussing around to try to help them out. now, maybe there's not a pay to play but lot of activity based on the fact that people have given a lot of money. the clinton campaign says, nobody got any meeting or

donations to that pass the smell test? >> there's a presumption of nefariousness on the part of the foundation and the clintons. in this particular case, look, i agree, that the foundation probably should have been, to borrow a phrase, walled off a while ago. that there should have been way to put that in trust. that said, this story, i think there's less than meets the eye. most of the people who we're talking about, there's a nobel prize winner, from who got a meeting who would get a meeting with any secretary of state. whether are heads of state given money to the foundation who would get meeting with the secretary of state. the problem is, is that no one can prove that these people got anything out of these meetings. all that said, there's an appearance of coziness, i guess is the word that you're using. >> dickerson: if you don't admit a little cozy insurance, donna brazile said, republicans see as

a meeting, saying there's no relationship. don't they have to admit, yes, okay, you got e-mails got returned, but some people got a meeting, some people didn't and it's not as bad as you think. but they're not even saying that. >> what your definition of meeting is. this is clearly pay to play scheme. as much as republicans like to use it, there's so much smoke there that the bigger question is, isn't this part of the pall that surrounds the to the lincoln bedroom. all the different things that come part of this package deal of bill and hillary clinton, i would say that the independence looking at possibly supporting hillary clinton are looking at this again saying, here we are on these corruption -- >> show me one thing that someone got from hillary clinton's state department because they happen to give money to the clinton foundation. >> the meetings. >> i'm waiting for actual evidence.

meeting -- there are lot of meet thanks happened -- >> had hundreds of meetings a week. >> e-mails between them that said this is a friend of ours maybe you can do this, then get a short but meeting nonetheless. yes, maybe the crown prince of saudi arabia would get the meeting anyway. you would think. these are -- there's e-mails -- >> part is very interesting part why donald trump is succeeding to the degree that tease succeeding. this is washington. people who know each other and influential people that's human nature that's politics. this is what people outside of washington do find, this is not a clinton specific issue. it's an example. >> dickerson: we'll have to go. people write big checks get things that they want even if it's not the big casino they get what they want that's what makes people -- that's going to be it for us today thank to all of you for watching.

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>> dickerson: we'd like to close today by congratulating cbs "sunday morning" charles osgood who announced this morning he will retire from the broadcast next month after 22 years at the helm. the osgood file will go on, however, as he says, we'll keep seeing him on the radio for years to come. that's it for us today, thanks for watching. until next week for "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by