captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> this is the "journal" on dw tv. germany tightened security, saying there is concrete threat of a terrorist attack later this month. >> the finance minister has agreed to help ireland tackle its financial crisis. >> hamburg is named to the green capital of europe.

germany has increased security at airports and train stations after the government received indications of terror attacks that may be planned for the end of november. foreign and domestic intelligence services have concrete evidence of a planned the attack. one of the targets includes a popular christmas market. the chancellor and interior minister are concerned. on wednesday, the cabinet was informed of the threat. shortly afterwards came the interior minister's warning to the public. >> according to information from a foreign partner that reached us after the yemen incident, the planned attack was to go ahead in november. there is reason to be concerned, but no reason for hysteria. >> german media has quoted

security sources saying that four militant islamists are on their way to germany to carry out attacks. security at train stations and airports are being tightened. >> of the security measures are visible to the population. there will be other measures that people will not see. >> experts say that wednesday's warning to the german public was appropriate. >> we are in the sights of the terrorists. they mention us regularly. we are in afghanistan and they want us to leave. that is why we are in such danger. >> the new security measures are due to remain in place indefinitely. >> our political correspondent has been following this story. he gave us this update.

>> it is important to emphasize that thomas de maiziere believes that he has concrete, credible, information from two separate sources. there could be a terrorist attack or attacks in germany towards the end of november. it is important to mention that in recent days, there have been reports of according to u.s. sources that there could be a terror unit of four men possibly train in central asia making their way towards germany. there are concerns about homegrown the islamists. perhaps being trained at terror camps on the border between afghanistan and pakistan. we have seen that security is going to be stepped up at airports and train stations.

christmas markets all over germany are very sensitive. expect heighten security there and heighten secure -- concern. people in germany have every right to be concerned, but the minister says there is no reason for hysteria. >> we found out what police and locals were saying around the country. >> machine guns and bullets at germany's biggest airport. there are not just more police on duty, they are more heavily armed. the police presence has been stepped up at all major travel hubs. the increased security is meant to reassure the public. >> you start to think about it when you see all of the police officers. i am not scared, but i am

thinking about it. >> another target is the brandenburg gate. just a stone's throw from the u.s. embassy and the holocaust memorial. >> i am not scared. i do not think that it affects me directly. >> we cannot do anything about it. >> they are exaggerating the threat, like always. >> there is no sign of a sense of panic on the streets. >> the dominican republic has registered its first case of cholera four weeks after it broke out in haiti. it has been isolated in a hospital in the east of the country. protesters have clashed with un peacekeepers. there are accusations that international troops brought in the disease. the outbreak has now killed more

the 1000 people. the german institute for disaster is in port-au-prince. what does it look like? >> we had several demonstrations. there was one death. we are trying to see everyday where we can work. the situation could change every day. >> what about the rumors that the cholera was brought in by un forces? is there anything to those allegations?

>> there were some lab tests that the un sent off to disease control. there is information that the haitian people are discussing among them. the victimization and occupation. >> she is from the german institute for disaster medicine. there have been clashes between greek police and protesters in athens. this was a march marking the anniversary of a student uprising by a military dictatorship that ruled greece at the time. police responded by firing tear gas and stun grenades. speaking of austerity measures, eu finance ministers are worried about ireland.

>> finance ministers have been holding talks in brussels about growing talk that ireland will need a bailout from its neighbors. dublin has resisted the pressure to tap the rescue measure wind greece was in the spotlight. they will examine what kind of help could be offered. many analysts say that a bailout is just days away. >> the irish finance minister joined his colleagues after consultations with dublin. it seems clear that if ireland needs aide, it would only be given with the conditions of the eu fund. that is not popular in ireland. >> to determine the best way to

address market risks. >> he has indicated that if ireland does ask for the aide, it could provide a portion of it. >> ireland is our closest neighbor. it is in britain's national interest that ireland is stable. >> smaller eu members say that there would have to be guarantees, otherwise there is no way to prevent the crisis from spreading. >> i think all of the governments are well aware of this danger. everybody is aware of their responsibilities. that is why it is important to make it clear that we can act quickly if necessary and we can do what is needed. >> the irish finance minister will have to make some unpopular decisions at home. >> ireland and greece are not

the only country is causing concern. spain's economy also stalled in the third quarter. recovery in europe's fifth largest economy is being hampered by weak demand and lack of investment. they are depending on spending cuts to rein in their national deficit. european stocks rose on wednesday among hopes that european union officials would come up with a solution to the debt crisis. >> there is still no concrete solution for ireland. there have been explanations for the recovery. there is help if needed. the strongest -- there are

takeover speculation. the company presented yesterday strong numbers. >> let's take a closer look at some market number starting in frankfurt where the dax index finished 0.5% higher. blue chips advanced 0.75%. in new york, the dow is presently going up. the euro is currently at $1.25. a french group has announced a joint venture in china. it will have an entertainment system on a chinese airline expected to compete with airbus

and boeing. commercial aircraft company of china unveiled the plants at an air show along with a commuter jet that is about to enter service. >> the chinese short range airliner which carries up to 105 passengers will be operational by the end of this year. they are upbeat about their midrange plane. >> the asian markets will be driving growth in the asian market. we believe the passenger load for asia will make up 39% of the market. in america and europe, a passenger flights will be relatively small. >> this will carry uppe to 109

passengers. >> some chinese hope that the new airliner will dominate in asia. >> more international news. 820 strong group of military officers claimed they have seized power. the colonel said that he was asking for the welfare of the people. voters went to the polls in a referendum on a new constitution that would allow the president to stay in power until the next election. he has ruled out stepping down. his government has vowed to crush the rebellion. iraq's president says he will not find an order for the former deputy minister. he said he would block the execution due to his old age and because he is an iraqi

christian. he was the former deputy to saddam hussein. he is suffering from ill hea lth. was sentenced to death by an iraqi court for religious persecution. they are charged with using deadly protest -- and deadly force against protesters in april. more than 80 people were killed. as the trial opened, a victim's relatives called for the defendant's execution. hamburg is the european green capital for 2011. it takes over for stockholm. it has many of the environmental challenges for urban areas. it managed to fend off 30 other cities for the title.

>> hamburg has a reputation for being green. its water is clean and the environmental goals are ambitious. they want to cut co2 emissions by 40% over the next decade. >> hamburg was selected from 35 serious contenders across europe. that is a recognition of what we have achieved. it will hel us stay on the right path. hamburg is proud of its new title. there are plans for electric cars, efficient housing, and bring electricity. this produces the most trash per capita and the biggest coal- fired power plant is under construction there. >> new study showed that we will have to do significantly more to achieve our own co2 emission goals.

we have to take a serious look at traffic and transport issues. anyone can use these banks at hamburg city hall. the challenge for authorities is to show that hamburg deserves the green capital title. >> there is severe flooding in southern england. many people were left stranded in their homes and vehicles. they launched a large-scale rescue operation using boats. authorities say that river levels are continuing to rise. the world's oldest drinkable champagne was opened on wednesday. after two centuries under water. the champagne is going to be auctioned soon. very sweet was the verdict. they will sell 170 bottles of this. it is from a wreck.

each bottle is expected to fetch 150,000 euros at auction. >> buy me three of those.

>> 9/11, london, madrid, it is germany the next target in al qaeda's global terror campaign. information has been uncovered about plans to attack targets in germany at the end of the month. they say that there is reason to be concerned, but no reason for hysteria. the german public seems to be taking the news in stride. that has to do with the country's track record. time and again, the government

has managed to shut down terrorist plots. >> so far, germany has been spirit terrorist attacks. in 2006, two suitcase bombs failed to detonate. security officials are on constant alert. in april of 2010, the head of the federal police said in an interview, never have there been so many investigations into suspected terrorists ben there are now, more than 300. that includes attacks on soldiers in afghanistan. increasing numbers of young germans are heading to islamic training camps in afghanistan. other countries are watching what happens in germany closely. in october, u.s. and england

issued a travel advisories for inland europe. they say the constant travel advisories are not useful. >> at the moment, we have no solid evidence of imminent attacks in germany. there is a raised abstract threat. >> that has become more evident in recent weeks. in late october, al qaeda sent two parcel bombs from yemen. one bank was -- one was processed at frankfurt airport. they said that one was a false alarm. the parcel was intercepted in england. in early november, a parcel bomb was discovered in the chancellery room in berlin.

it was no comparison to the explosive devices from al qaeda. now a warning from the interior minister. there are definite plans for a terrorist attack in germany in late november. >> we have received additional information and facts relative to the threat. security officials have unanimously assessed to mean that we are dealing with a new situation. >> that means that the threat is greater than ever. the federal police have stepped up their presence at train stations and airports. authorities are asking people to be vigilant. >> a particular concern for the authorities is the rise of homegrown terrorists. german citizens that have been recruited by fanatic groups and

trained on the border between afghanistan and pakistan. how much is known about these camps and the training that takes place there? >> unfortunately, we only have sketchy information on these camps on the border between afghanistan and pakistan where local governments do not exert any control. the americans are trying to stop these radicals from getting organized by attacking them with drones. there appears to be seven dozen people of german origin that have been trained in these camps. they seem to be on their way back to germany. there is a very sincere threat emerging from these groups. this is not the only threat in germany. there is a big worry among security officials that freight machines might be used as flying

bombs to targets cities in germany. >> turning back to camps, how serious is the threat from people who trained their pi? >> it is a serious threat. there is something in the making. the threat is imminent. the german government is very worried and does not seem to have a clear recipe as to what to do to prevent these terror attacks. the population has been warned to day. the german government does not want its citizens to get overly nervous. everyday life should go on. the threat is real. it is a dangerous and volatile

situation. >> what would terrorists want to achieve with an attack on germinate? >> they want to strike terror in the heart of europe as they have done in other european countries. the german public is not used to this type of violence, different than britain or spain. they know that there will be a severe repercussions, when it comes to the peaceful coexistence with muslims in germany. sept. 0 -- >> september 11, 2001 changed the way that we lived and traveled. taking a plane somewhere is a lot more complicated than it used to be. germans spend seven times more on security than they did before 9/11. so far, the strategy has paid off. the terrorist threat is still there. the government is working on

ways to protect the country for terrorism. how much personal security are germans willing to sacrifice? >> thomas de maiziere some mets to a body scan. says that the devices are only being tested. soon, the devices will be introduced across the country. travelers have had to adjust to measures at airports. a body search by the security personnel is the norm rather than the exception. security personnel paul aside and question anybody that seems nervous. security has been tightened at train station as well -- train stations as well, with greater attention paid to unattended luggage. muslim extremists are a special

focus of observation. the german intelligence services want to know what is happening at their train stations. many muslims in germany feel as if they are under general suspicion. visitors to jewish centers have been nervous since the 9/11 attacks. whenever al qaeda issues another threat, more police are posted outside of synagogues. a few years ago, privacy advocates had criticism for the use of tv cameras in public spaces. they are not as widely used in germany as in england. germans have gotten used to it. as well as not having access to any building. there is also restricted access

to court rooms and politicians' offices. internet users to feel like their freedoms have been in french on to -- impinge on.

sex-sated. >> affluence and spituality. the brisk selling jesus as ceo d noble list book of reading for affluent readers. affluent baby boomers are turning their thoughts toward mortality. the stock market nouveau riche are sparking an interest in economic doctrine. religious leaders from the dalai lama to muslim mulas revere jesus as a human being. just who was jesus christ and how does he fit in the 21st century?

we'll ask yahya hendi, muslim chaplain, georgetown university. and mark edward dever, baptist, southern baptist church. if. for such a small word it packs a wallop. if i live to a hundred. if social security isn't enough. if my heart gets broken. if she says yes. we believe if should never hold you back. if should be managed with a plan that builds on what you already have. together we can create a personal safety net, a launching pad, for all those brilliant ifs in the middle of life. you can call on our expertise

and get guarantees for the if in life. after all, we're metlife. welcome, welcome, imam, and welcome pastor dever. i want to talk about and present the proposition that the economic condition of any nation has profound impact on all phases of social living, cultural living, and spiritual -- the spirituality of the era. and we'll develop that as we go along. in the 1960 we had a wave of economic expansion and it produced something called the "age of aware just." and the age of aware just spawned the number of exotic religions, including zen buddhism and hindu meditation and from there into the jesus freak youth movement which swept

through the ranks of the drug-depleted and sex-sated surfers of california and and from there into the jesus freak youth movement which swe . now, imam, do you detect any impact of the affluence of today on the spirituality of your -- your flock? >> indeed. i do believe that if i were to go back 20 years or see where muslims are going now, i do believe that the economic situation of muslims and the worldwide community will influence the way muslims see islam islam's spirituality as the way out of the dispair, out of the harmlessness, out of the -- homelessness and poverty that mums limbs have been experienced in the last 20 years. >> you serve as a muslim chaplain of georgetown university which is a roman

catholic university in the sense it's run by jesuit priests, right? >> indeed, yeah. >> now, how is that going? >> i think it has gone, so far, very well. i have enjoyed working with the jesuits, with the roman catholic priests, with the protestants ministers and with the rabbis. >> do you have any muslims in your congregation at georgetown? >> i don't think i can -- i don't know exactly how many muslims are there at georgetown university, but i'm familiar with about 500-600 muslim students. and about 200 staffers and faculty members. >> have you noticed any kind of exoticism within the muslim community that's comparable in what we see from outcroppings from the spiritual -- the economic expansion of the '60s, anything like that? is there anything comparable to -- like we hear about on television, pagan, wiccan

religion and new age parapsychology? but your -- the faith in the koran, the muslim faith is deeply rooted in principles that seems to be impervious to what i'm talking about here, is that true? >> well, if we are to go back to koranic principles of social life and economics and all that. one sees a challenge for us to live our life righteously, handle our wealth in the way god wants us to, considering the different circumstances in which we live. you know, had this economic -- what go -- do we want to call it, muslims taking away from their faith or back to their faith, i believe it has brought them back to their faith. this is why islam now is the

most powerful religion in the middle east, in the arab world, and the most -- fastest religion in america as well. >> you mean that wealth and prosperity are not ultimately fulfilling, and this creates,@in fact, a craving for spirituality at a certain point, that what you're saying? and this is true with muslims true? >> well, islam -- islamic teaching is balanced between the economic and the wealth and the spiritual well-being. so both have to go hand in hand. and when people focus only on the economic advancements without the spirituality islam says that will take them eventually to their own direction. >> imam, you know that as this program proceeds we're going to be talking about what the koran says about jesus. >> yes, sir. >> and i think our audience is going to be quite surprised about what the koran does say about jesus. and how much it reveres jesus,

while not, of course, assuming that he is the son of god. but that he is a prophet and he is a divine prophet, if a sense without actually having divinity we'll get to that? a moment. but you see opposite a gentleman that has been sitting patiently. he's not muslim, he's christian, he's southern baptist and he's a pastor here in washington, d.c., correct? >> true. >> do you have thoughts on anything we've been talking about here? notably the impact on current affluence on spirituality? >> yeah, i think in an important sense what you're saying is true. i think in the deepest sense it's not so true. it is true in the sense that since the 1940s there's really been a huge economic expansion that allowed a separate youth culture to develop financially in the way you couldn't have had in the '20s or the teens earlier. when you have a separate commercial fed by interests there are going to be lots of

new things, not just in the 50s but, but the 70s, places to hang out, books, new literature, places to go out, derveltly, an effect on news. buddhism isn't old, they're new to america. they're new to us and i think there certainly has been an openness to the new in the last 50 years. but in the most important sense i say, well, no, you're going to find very religious people who are very wealthy and you're going to find very religious people who are very poor. it seems at the end of the day our financial situation is not what finally determines whether or not we're going to be interested in our souls in relationship with god. >> the poor usually display a keen interest in religion that is ongoing since their lives are so plainly at the mercy of forces beyond themselves. >> a typical modern western secular myth. that is not true. so if you look, for instance, at the rites of church attendants,

supposedly the more developed economically a country goes the lower the rates of church attendance are. but yet america stands in contradiction to that. >> don't you think that when middle america, or the upper class beorgoisie are struggling to gain and maintain a regular of financial security that during that time they're pretty much calvinist and they don't spend that much time dealing with religion. rather, their work almost becomes a religion and then when they reach a point, a level of affluence, then they develop as nouveau riche, if you will, an interest in religion. is that true? >> no. i think -- >> not true? >> that's not true, that's a thesis about calvinism being a force for economic change. i think that's somewhat discredited. >> do you think that the wealthy parishioners that you have in

your congregation are as committed to their personal spiritual and religious growth as are the less economically fortunate, the poor? you also have many poor people in your parish, as i understand? >> yeah, we have 400 people, mainly in their 20s and 30s. we don't have any wealthy, by world standards but not american standards, we don't have a lot of wealthy. >> you do not? >> no, a middle class congregation but a lot of young people. >> jesus is a familiar icon but he means different things to different faiths. what spiritual void will jesus fill in the early 21st century? that we are now at? we'll put that question to our guests but first, here distinguished profiles. born madison, kentucky, wife connie, two children, southern baptist, duke university b.a. magna cum laude. master of divinity.

southern baptist theological seminary, master of theology, summa cum laude. cambridge university ph.d.. eaton baptist church cambridge england associate pastor two years. cambridge university, england, instructor, classics, two years. capitol hill baptist church, washington, d.c., pastor, six years and cur dever. born palestine, 34 years of age, wife soran. two children. muslim. university of jordan. b.a., university of jordan, m.a. islam historic. hardford seminary m.a. karattive religions and muslim-christian relations. council on economic relations, washington, d.c. director of public relations. two years. national naval medical center, washington, muslim chaplain, three years and currently, georgetown university.

muslim chaplain. one year and currently. yahya hendi. >> yahya hendi, imam, you are a muslim theologian, is that correct? >> i think so. >> how many years did you spend studying muslim theology? >> i would say about 15 years. >> how does the koran depict jesus? >> well, jesus is looked at as a prophet, as a messenger of god. there are 15 chapters in the koran out of 114 that talk about jesus christ. the total verse he is that mention christ in different ways are 93. he's seen as the born baby of mary, virgin birth. >> virgin birth. >> yes. >> in the desert? >> he was born in palestine. >> near a palm tree in a desert? >> yes, yes, indeed, near a palm tree in palestine.

>> does islam accept the notion of jesus assess dense into god? >> well, muslims believe that jesus was not crews tied. muslims believe there was an attempt to crews phi him, crewsify him but he called upon his lord asking him not to, and obliged him to send him to 11 alive, he was not crucified. >> did he perform miracles? >> yes. >> he cured the blind? >> cured the blind, healed the sick. >> did he heal lepers. yes. >> did he raise the dead. yes. >> he did? the koran said he raised the dead, healed blind, all those miracles were performed by the permission of god, his lord and the lord of all people. >> how many people do you know in history have raised the dead besides jesus and -- or besides jesus? none.

>> none. does that not suggest to you he is divine? >> no, that to me suggests he has a special place and role in history that god designed for him. >> was he touched by satan? >> no, he was not. >> was his mother married? she was never married. >> never married? >> never married according to the islamic concept of history. >> why hasn't the parallelism between the teachings of the koran and the teachings of the bible brought christians and muslim closer together i ask you dr. mark dever? >> well, it's difficult to be brought together on exactly the teachings because what the emom said here is not the case that jesus is not crucified is at the very heart of the christian understanding of not only what happened to jesus but what jesus intended to do. >> so you can see tolerance but you cannot actually see a reconciliation because the doingmatic differences are so different? >> yeah. >> i know you're not surprised because you're a man of very deep and wide erudition as is

evidence of to what you're saying today. do you believe many westerners that the koran teaches that christ was born of a virgin. >> a lot of american churches would be better off if they believed as much as the imam did, the christian churches in america, yeah. >> you mean that there is a rejection of jesus as being truly the son of god by a number of protestants churches? >> a number of people in churches. >> what percent of protestants believe jesus is the son of god? no idea. >> how about believe in the trinity? >> i think a high percentage would say they do but i large percentage would say they didn't. >> there are some mutually exclusive propositions separating the muslim religion from the christian religion, correct. right. imam, i assume you think i as a christian could live a life good enough whereby the mercy of god i would be accepted by him

eternally in heaven, i don't want to put words in your mouth? >> according to the koran god has to believe god is the almighty creator and no one should be in -- once anyone, a human being devote herself or himself the worship of other than god then that's what takes him from salvation of heaven from acceptance from god. >> so any theistic believer in god in that sense could be? >> but this believers also has to believe also as jesus as a prophet, a messenger, not as the son of god and has to believe that mohammad is not the only prophet but rather the last of prophets who came after many other prophets like moses, jesus, david, solomon and many or prophets. >> how are they ranked? >> all are equal. in chapter two in the koran there's a verse is a says we do

not distinguish among all of the prophets, all are equal in the eyes of god. but going back to the issue of the son of god and why muslims believe that way, muslims believe that it was paul who really started the idea of teaching that jesus was crucified and was the son of god. >> can we talk a little bit about the pope's visit in this sense? it was abraham maik in character. abraham founded three religions, correct? >> false. >> he did not. >> no. >> what ded. >> obeyed it from awah, and follow them whatever they believed. >> what are you attacking my verb founded. >> the three religions were pounded. >> that's not true. >> no. >> why was that widely public litigationed in connection with the pope's visit. >> you could say it in a common way, we have common roots, that you could say. as jesus said abraham actually looked forward to his day, to

the day of jesus. >> do you see abraham as a prophet? >> yes, abraham as a prophet and from him descended jesus, jesus and mohammad. >> i want to go right to the point, though. the pope apparently, notwithstanding your keen insight -- >> yes, he didn't phone me about it. [laughter] >> notwithstanding that, i have the impression that he wanted to show by his visit over there and he also wanted to get into iraq and he wanted to go but for political reasons he could not do so, regrettably, where abraham was born in you can, saddam hussein's iraq, right? >> but he wanted to show the linkage between the three faiths, why did he want to do that and is that desirable from the point of view of what interfaith dialog, interfaith communion, interfaith connection? >> why did he want to do that? he has to be asked that question and the roman catholic church has to come up with a clear statement.

>> you have all those good jesuits there, do they have give you the reason? >> i am given the reason it was religiously promoted and to promote peace in the religion. let me say this. muslims might not recognize some aspects of the christian theology and christians might not recognize some aspects of islamic theology and the same thing with judaism but the argument i believe that the pope was trying to make and muslims make and i make in interfaith work is we are different, we need to keep talking about those differences but meanwhile there are common, shared interests in life to make our lives better. >> there's also some doingmatic correspondences, they are monotheistic, are they not? >> true. >> although buddhism does not suggest an autonomous personage. >> right. buddhism, at least certain kinds offed byism, people say the oldest kinds of buddhism are not considered purely theistic,

they're more eight theistic, not a god as we would conceive of it. >> they also recognize their god, quote, unquote as revealed through their particular scrip pure, notably the koran, the bible, and the tal nude, correct? here we have jews -- go ahead. >> not buddhists. >> not buddhists, correct. >> not buddhists. >> right. i -- >> the koran recognizes the torah, that moses did receive the torah, from god, christians received the angel, and mohammad conceived the koran. >> let's confine jude day i., muslimism and christianity. do they not all believe in a final judgment? >> traditional christianity, islam and judaism espoused the idea of a final judgment, that is true. >> and you believe that as part of your crede. >> i think i'm going to die and stand before god and have to give him a personal account.

>> that's the particular judgment, what about the final judgment when we're all gathered together in a giant plane? >> i don't know about the plane thing but i think that's going to happen. >> you do. >> yeah. >> you think it's literally going to happen with the resurrection of the body. >> the whole thing there the whole thing. >> the whole thing. >> you don't put any limits on it, any symbolic reading into it to dilute it of its literacy. >> rich symbolism, i wouldn't deny that. but i'm not sure what interest i would have in saying it doesn't mean what it says, i think it does mr. do you have a particular judgment and if you stand before someone whom will that be. >> i believe under their judgment all human beings, creation will stand before god for judgment, for that which they did or said or how they acted in life. >> who is god? >> god is the almighty creator of this planet and universe. >> a person? >> god is not to be -- >> a force? >> well, god's form is not to be known by us but he is the creator of this universe.

>> he -- what about she? >> we don't use the pronouns to define god. >> he just use he. >> this is the english language. in erik we would say god and not give pronoun, whether masculine or feminine mr. i think what we're going to see in the 21st century, and sooner rather than later, is an overwhelming conflict between science and faith. look at what's coming along. we're going to unlock the human genome, we're going to engage in genetic engineering to eliminate inherited disease and perfect mankind. we may overcome, to a great extent, the aging process. we may reinvent life itself. we may feel as though we're taking on god-like powers. and there will be people, particularly in your communion, but also in yours, who will say why are we tinkering with what god and god alone should be doing? we are tinkering with the genetic structure of man.

we are changing man as we have known him and has been presented by the koran and by the bible. do you see that coming? and will it sway people more toward religion or away from religion? >> well, i think medicine for the last hundred years has already undergone a lot of change. we don't even have to guess the years coming up. and certainly, as people who live in modern america, we all profit, religious or not we profit from the medical advances. >> now, the pharmaceuticals that come into existence by reason of biotechnology and genetic -- genetic -- the genetic sciences is one thing. but when you start altering genes, you are right at the heart of the essence of being a man, a person, you understand? >> yes. >> that leap is an enormous leap. it is perhaps the most profound change that we will have ever seen in mankind. way beyond anything like the

industrial revolution. >> it's not the kind of thing that we'll be able to discuss carefully in a couple minutes on a tv show. >> no, but my question is to you, and i don't want you to take that dodge, if you don't mind my telling you, that's exactly what it is, is it going to pull people towards religion or is science really going to take over the role of religion? is science going to be the new god? we don't need god as much. we can control our pain. we can control our disease. >> no, because we're finally personal beings and we desire relationship. we don't merely to desire 20 years long asian not have certain diseases. we do desire this thing but we're created in the image of god and most fundamentally god himself from do you have thoughts on this? >> i think in this coming century people will lean toward god and rediscover themselves in the image of the almighty god. and number two -- >> when the time comes, when the time comes that you see and you greet, as a friend, a cloned human being, another person that

looks exactly like you, and you know that that person has been cloned, is that going to i am pell you to -- impell to respect and love god more or incline you to move away from god into science? >> that needs to be discussed more thoroughly by scholars, theologians to come up with the right solution in the coming years. >> i think we've established that you, dr. dever, take the resurrection literally. >> that's right, on the last day that the imam was talking about he and you and i will all need his help. >> i'm talking about jesus being resurrected from the grave. >> that's what i'm talking about. that very one is the one whose help we'll need. >> do you have anything in the koran that matches the resurrection? >> no, but on the day of judgment we would need the help of god, the almighty one, the lord of jesus and moses for salvation and not anyone else, not even mohammad. >> you are saying here earlier that jesus said that he was the

son of god but he was not the son of god. don't yo- think that god is going to say to jesus, "why did you claim that you were my son"? is that going to happen, according to the koran? >> cording to koran, god would say to jesus why did you say that and he said say i never said that, oh, my god. it's an indirect of god presenting himself to the christian community on the day of judgment. >> thank you very much imam for being my guest. and thank you, pastor dever. somewhere in america... the slightest breeze harbors immense power. the tallest buildings leave the lightest footprints. a fifty-ton train makes barely a mark on the environment. and a country facing climate change finds climate solutions. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens

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