captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> welcome to "the journal." pressure on hosni mubarak mounts, with protesters calling on people across the nation to join the uprising. >> the new york and frankfurt stock exchanges are holding merger discussions. >> italian prosecutors want an immediate trial for the prime minister on charges of paying for sex with a minor and abuse of office. in egypt, the popular uprising against the regime of president

mubarak has spread to include workers staging wildcat strikes, protesters blocking railway lines and roads, notably the freeway linking north and south egypt. in the south, security forces fired live ammunition into a crowd of demonstrators. medical authorities say at least three people were killed and 100 injured. that violence occurred in the town of el kharga, an oasis south of cairo. there were clashes with police in other locations in the south reported over the last five days. in the capital, protesters continue to defy official warnings that their campaign could plunge egypt into chaos. thousands of people marched on parliament today, calling for the assembly's dissolution. last night saw the biggest rallies to date. >> the atmosphere on tahrir square is peaceful during prayers. otherwise, it is a hotbed for

demonstrators' discontent. the vice president has warned of a military coup should an orderly transition fail. they say they want real dialogue. >> some people can understand now. this is a monologue. we reject the monologue. we are talking about a dialogue. >> vice-president omar suleiman's warning has been disregarded by the protesters. they are going to continue demonstrations. at the palace, mubarak met with a russian envoy. the kremlin said it will not interfere with egyptian internal affairs, but is concerned with the unrest. back on the streets, protests stepped up a gear, with demonstrators blocking the entrance to parliament and increasing pressure on mubarak. >> earlier, we spoke with our correspondent in cairo, karim el gawhary, and asked what he knew

about the violence in el kharga. >> el kharga is an oasis several kilometers away from cairo. this remote has -- this protest has spread to the most remote area in egypt. it is the same thing as cairo, but with delayed effect. there was a police station famous for torturing people. people went out to demonstrate in the last what happened is that the police gathered in order to terrorize the population of the village, the same thing they did in cairo. the population stormed the police station and the security headquarters there. while this was happening, they were shooting from the security headquarters. right now, they talk about at least 140 injured. that is with shooting wounds. probably at least five people are dead. >> how is the protest in cairo

developing? what about calls for the uprising to spread to other parts of egypt? >> the uprising is spreading. it is interesting. the event in tahrir square -- today, at least in seven different locations, workers began a strike. it is a mixture of asking for higher salaries, but also asking for the end of the era of mubarak. >> thank you so much. the syrian government has lifted its restrictions on accessing the social networking websites facebook and youtube. now that are freely available. other controversial web sites with information authorities deem subversive remain blocked. last week, the suit -- the syrian president underscored his country's stability, which he said will be bolstered by a planned political reforms.

syrian media has tight government guidelines. those expressing unwanted opinions often get prison sentences. calls for anti-government realize -- rallies have failed to draw large crowds. a major merger is giving a lift to shares today. >> shares in new york stock exchange soared more than 13% wednesday after the exchange operator announced it was in discussions to merge with the frankfurt stock exchange. trading at both companies is suspended briefly. it would create the world's largest exchange operator. >> the new york exchange said that talks are at an advanced stage, but that no final agreement has been reached. experts believe an announcement will come soon. shares in both companies are up sharply on wednesday, before being suspended. the new york stock exchange is the world's largest, but its market value is far less than

its german counterpart. that is valued at 111 billion year rose. the nyse head would become the boss of the new company. german shareholders would hold a 59% share of the new entity. >> early on wednesday, the toronto and london exchanges announced they would merge, billed as a merger of equals. both are going to keep their existing brand names, but lse investors will hold 55% of the new group. both exchanges are heavily weighted with mining stocks. the union will create the world's biggest exchange for mining and energy stocks. the merger is happening on the stock market in london and toronto, as well as the possible merger between new york and frankfurt -- we have a report from our correspondent in frankfurt.

>> it has been a spectacular day on the frankfurt floor, although investors could not react to every news they heard. first of all, london and toronto announced a merger of their stock markets. this will make the biggest platform for mining and for energy stocks worldwide. after the bell in frankfurt, the new york stock exchange announced they are negotiating with the german stock market. they both plan a merger of equals as well. the germans may be in the lead because the german stock market is a little bigger than the new york stock exchange. the new york stock exchange already owns stock market ueronix. the european stock market will not be the same after that. >> staying in frankfurt, let us

look at market numbers. the dax index closed slightly lower. the euro stocks 50 -- stoxx 50 finished lower. the dow is currently going down. the number is 12,205. the euro is trading at $1.3717. >> in milan, italian prosecutors have requested that prime minister silvio berlusconi be put on trial immediately for paying for sex with underage dancer, and for abuse of office. omar suleiman -- silvio berlusconi denies such charges, but said he did use his influence to help the girl. he said he did so because he believed she was the niece of egyptian president hosni mubarak. >> silvio berlusconi is under pressure. prosecutors are seeking a fast track trial because of what they

call the obviousness of the evidence. they say berlusconi invited dozens of women to parties at his mansion. they accused him of paying underage dancer karima el mahroug for sex. when she was arrested on charges of theft, berlusconi intervened to get her released from custody. berlusconi projects the charges and has tried to set up the scandal. on wednesday, he brushed aside questions on legal difficulties, which he blames on the campaign by the media. visibly irritated, he pointed to the daily sacrifices he makes for his country. >> i still have not been able to go to the dentist because i have an exposed nerve that does not get better. this is a large sacrifice and risk am taking. this is something i would not do it by was a private citizen. >> a judge in milan has five

days to decide whether or not to indict berlusconi. the affair has divided italians. many are fed up with the prime minister's alleged sexual escapades. >> there is a lot of talk, but we are tired of listening to politicians talk about these issues. we cannot stand them anymore. he loves doing what he does. he should do it more cleverly, as many others do. >> berlusconi supporters hope he will ride out this storm, as he has others. the prime minister has faced several criminal trials that have ended in acquittal or been dismissed. >> in iraq, at least seven people have been killed and dozens wounded in a series of car bombs. the almost simultaneous attacks took place in khartoum. they targeted a police station and a regional security building. three police were among those killed. the oil-rich city remains the center of a territorial dispute between the central government

in baghdad and the kurdish semi- autonomous region. a tanker carrying hundreds of millions of euros of crude oil was captured by somali pirates in the arabian sea, one of the biggest hijackings in the region. the greek tanker was on its way to the united states. it was seized off the coast of oman. it held 25 crewmembers and a fifth of daily u.s. crude imports. the capture comes a day after an italian tanker was seized by pirates. the u.n. secretary-general has urged the leaders of thailand and cambodia to exercise restraint and find a lasting solution to their border conflict. ban offered u.n. help to negotiate with the thai military. near the cambodian border, the thai army says the tanks are part of a change in troops manning the border. some villagers expressed concern that their arrival could signal

more fighting. clashes in the disputed border area have killed at least seven people. rumors are swirling about some top-level changes in store for the ecb. >> speculation is building as to who will take over as president of the european central bank after jean-claude tree shea -- trichet steps down later this year. azel -- axel weber has long been considered the front runner, but he says he is not available and is considering moving to deutsche bank. berlin's annual fresh produce expo is under way. it comes at an interesting time politically, with good security a major topic in egypt and tunisia. both countries have representatives at the international trade show. both are still going through rough times.

that has been affecting exports, despite the high demand for exotic fruit in germany. >> produce wholesalers throughout north africa are doing a booming business, with most of their wares exported to europe, where demand continues to climb. tunisian fruits and vegetables are sought after in france, italy, and germany. continuing unrest is beginning to affect the private sector. it is a growing concern. >> the dockworkers are demanding higher pay. most work on a day-by-day basis, but want to see immediate improvement in long-term contracts. >> in some north african cities such as alexandria, turnover of merchandise has come to a standstill. this egyptian produce company had to close down for two weeks as the result. >> a lot of people are not working.

they are joining the demonstrations. we are facing difficulties. but we think it is temporary and everything will go back and be ok. >> citrus fruits, dates, olive oil, and vegetables. north african nations have been capitalizing on a lucrative market. agriculture is 10% of tunisia's domestic product. >> they have been feeling the effects of unrest. the sooner it gets back to normal, the sooner we can get back to the business of selling food and vegetables. >> here in berlin, talks between the german government and opposition affect welfare payments. 4.7 million people are unable to reach a compromise over payments for the long-term unemployed. negotiations are a test of strength for angela merkle's

coalition, which is slumping in opinion polls. the breakdown of discussions comes after a 10-hour marathon session. >> the labor minister admits her energy has been sapped by seven weeks of negotiations with the opposition, and many short nights. after the last marathon session, it was clear talks had finally collapsed. it is uncertain when the long- term unemployed will see an increase. even an intervention by the chancellor failed to bring a breakthrough. each side blames the other. >> the government expected the negotiations to fail. there was just one hour of effort from the chancellor. that insured the negotiations collapsed. >> it is totally irresponsible. >> the social democrats and greens were not interested in reaching a consensus. it is a maneuver that can be explained by upcoming regional

elections. the sd is trying to establish the new face of the party. it makes sense for them to keep negotiations going and give her the longest possible air time. >> a key sticking point is the minimum payment of 359 euros a month. the opposition says the government proposal of a 5-0 increase is not enough. the at sides disagree on when temporary workers should get the same pay as full-time staff doing the same work. >> to the world championships in bavaria. the men's super g race. this was innerhoffer's first medal at an international championship. it is 1-04 germany playing italy in soccer. we will have the results coming

up next. back in a minute with the latest from egypt. can that country produce a leader to articulate the popular will?

>> protests in egypt have spread from major urban areas to remote regions, with police in the southern oasis of el kharga firing into a crowd of protesters, killing three and wounding more than 100. workers are staging strikes in what is increasingly becoming a broad-based uprising against the 30-year-old regime of hosni mubarak. central cairo remains the focus of the movement. we have been gauging the mood of protesters there, who remain determined to see the strong man surrender power to a transitional government. >> the demonstrations on tahrir square have been going on for more than two weeks, day and night. some protestors stay here all

the time. others come and go. what has developed is a community of people helping one another to achieve a shared goal. >> since the very beginning, everyone loved one another. we do not think about ourselves. it is about egypt. we do not belong to a political party. when mubarak leaves, the good things in society will come out. when someone else takes over, this will be a lesson to them and they will not steal again. >> their hopes have been dashed many times already. now they do all they can to keep spirits high. the square has developed its own makeshift infrastructure, providing people here with their basic needs. mohamed said initially came to protest high unemployment in egypt. now he has found a way of making money selling bread rolls two

other demonstrators. he sells up to 200 every day. >> i can earn some money this way. at least i have something to do, instead of just sitting around at home. >> said ali is another protester. an electrician by trade, he is trying to make up for lost income by selling hot drinks. he tells us he sells 60 to 70 cups a day. but it is not just about making money. he wants to help the people on the square get through the day, so they can keep up their protest. the demonstrators have also set up first aid facilities outside a fast-food restaurant on the square. doctors come here to help those who fall sick or get hurt, even though the equipment they have to work with is basic.

>> at first, there were no medical supplies at all. we were using tissues and sticky tape. people started bringing things. first aid kits, and things like that. >> helping one another is crucial for these protesters. it is the only way they can keep the demonstration going, and keep alive their hopes of ousting hosni mubarak. >> as is often the case in the early phases of popular uprisings, leaders capable of articulating the will of people and able to propose concrete steps have yet to emerge. at the moment, there is it a stable of political hands capable of managing a transitional government. not all of them are committed to real democracy. >> for more than two weeks,

protesters have been flooding the streets of cairo, demanding president mubarak step down immediately. the political battle over who will lead the new egypt is already under way. this man wants to stop the escalation of violence in the country. omar suleiman, a close confidant of president mubarak, took the post of vice president a few days ago and is holding talks with the once-persecuted opposition. until recently, he led the intelligence service and cooperate closely with israel and the u.s. both countries are believed to support omar suleiman as an interim president, but that could prove a disadvantage. mohamed elbaradei is a nobel laureate and former head of the international atomic energy agency. he has little support among the public. critics contend he spent too much time abroad.

>> he has the advantage and disadvantage of coming from outside the country. he is considered not corrupt or part of the ruling political circle. >> the muslim brotherhood is egypt's leading opposition group. it hesitated to join the protests. for years, the muslim brothers were considered islamic extremists. but now they are divided and appear to be more moderate. >> we are not striving for a religious resolution. we want a secular democratic state based on the will of the people, not religion alone. >> the muslim brotherhood is deeply entrenched in egyptian society, partly due to many social projects. a new beginning without the group is unlikely. one man enjoying growing support is [unintelligible] many remember when the general secretary of the arab league was

the foreign minister. he was already considered mubarak's rival. many young egyptians would support him. >> i believe he is an alternative. he is a popular politician with many years of experience. his activities in the arab league means he has been out of domestic political events in egypt. that is an advantage. >> demonstrators are divided about who should succeed mubarak. they agree the president should step down immediately. >> in germany, the opposition has been sharply critical of the government's failure to call for mubarak's resignation. most western capitals are following a cautious strategy, which egypts freedom activists called hypocritical from countries espousing democracy. we asked in the least analyst what is behind the tepid support. >> mubarak has done a lot of favors to many people for a long time.

this is quite difficult to forget. in the center of the tension is israel and its stability. i think the west has to redefine its notion of stability in the region. in the western media, not long ago, egypt was portrayed as a democracy. i think this is over now. it is also in the long term interest of israel to have in the region a new notion of so- called western values. that means democracy, human rights, and their credibility. this serves more the interest than the stability of the kind we had in the past, with a fourth alternative. there was islamists on one side and the mubarak regime on the other. >> we saw some of the key players in egypt. who can be a credible replacement for mubarak? >> it is difficult to say.

none of the figures that are now in negotiations with the regime has managed to become a popular favorite in the last weeks of demonstrations. i think there is a certain credential for those in conflict with mubarak at a time when mubarak was strong. this is not an islamic resolution -- revolution. i do not think the muslim brothers figure would represent the whole revolution. we have seen a new figure like a new google marketing manager can become a huge figure all of a sudden because of his role in this demonstration. when we look at the revolutions in eastern europe, we had a new people swept to the surface, a lot of clergymen and physicists. they are not necessarily the worst politicians. why not include popular figures in the negotiations? they seem to have a real fellowship in tahrir square.

>> thank you so much. and thank you for joining us.

are we alone? for 50 years now, seti, that's, seti, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, has scoured the galaxy listening for signals of alien civilizations. so far none have been detected but scientists believe they already know plenty about alien life and the reasons why it would resemble life on earth. what does the evolution of life on our planet tell us about the likelihood that alien civilizations exist? in the second of a two-part series, we will ask one of the originators of the dark matter theory, dr. joel primack and nancy ellen

abrahams. if. for such a small if i live to a hundred. if social security isn't enough. if my heart gets broken. if she says yes. we believe if should never hold you back. if should be managed with a plan that builds on what you already have. together we can create a personal safety net, a launching pad, for all those brilliant ifs in the middle of life. you can call on our expertise and get guarantees for the if in life. after all, we're metlife.

this is the second session with two extraordinary people, nancy abrahams wosay lawyer, a song writer, a spouse, and the coauthor of this volume, which is quite breathtaking. the view from the center of the universe. discovering our extraordinariy place in the cosmows. a new book. -- cosmos. highly placed and the coauthor is sitting right here, his name is joel preand he is one of the world's most successful and recognized cosmonthlygists, astro first cysts. and this is a tour of the universe benefiting by the extraordinary breakthroughs of a series of telescopes, the head of which is the leading telescope is the

hubble telescope which is still functioning. now, the hubble is a product of nasa. so you must have high regard for nasa? is that deminished in any way? >> all of us scientists are enormously grateful for the government of the united states and to nasa in particular. but we are very worried that this new focus on putting people back on the moon is robbing the current scientific enterprise of very much-needed resources. in the hopes we'll be able to do something in 10-20 years we have already done. namely put people on the moon. we really have major projects that we would like to do now that are being postponed in many cases indefiniteliy because of this new focus on the moon. >> what do you have in mind? >> one of the major projects is to lis for gravity waves either from colliding enormous black holes at the centers of galaxies or even

from the big bang itself. that's a space project that we love to see go forward rapidly. there are a number of other projects that along with that one our group is beyond einstein. they are trying to take us beyond what we already know and see if there are any flaws in relativitiy and also to see if relativity really works and the most extreme environment, the whole universe right up close to black holes, that sort of thing. >> you're talking about the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, correct? >> that's another thing we loved to see go forward. >> that's the seti program been around for 50 years. that has enlisted 4 million, i believe, americans who have computers, for the use of those computers to continue to listen to the universe to see if there are any communication signals from an intelligence. is that correct? >> well, whatcom purts are

doing is analyzing data obtained from radio telescopes. you can sign up. it's called seti at home and you can allow unused time on your pc to be used for analyzing the data. seti is about to start a major new observatory. the ellena ray. >> named after paulal snen. >> who provided some of the money to make it possible. -- it's going to allow us able to10 times further out listen so far for signals from possible extraterrestrial intelligence. now 10 times further out may not sound like so much. so far we have been able to go out about 100 light years this. will let us go out 1,000 light years. the volume we can search goes up boo boo by a factor of 1,000. 10 times 10 times 10 because it's 3 dimensional. so we are going to greatly

increase the chance of detecting a signal. keep in mind though, if we get a signal from a civilization 1,000 light years away, it was sent 1,000 years ago. if we decide to reply, they'll receive the reply 1,000 years from now and then if they reply to us, our distance is 2000 years from now. >> the likelihood of there being anything out there, first of all ncontour, in size, in complexity, that entity, that alien, would have to really kind of duplicate what we have here on earth in human beings. correct? >> it might be about the same size we are, but i don't think it would duplicate us in it's thinking or looking at reality. that would be the fascinating thing about finding it. >> i'm talking about the structure of the brain,

perhaps? >> i don't think we know what an alien brain would look like. >> don't you make the case that the alien would have to proximate a human being from earth? an earth like country snur indeed. likely to be about the same size and the reason it has to do with fundamental laws of physics. it's not possible to have an intelligence that much smaller than the human brain. because there isn't enough complexity and not possible to have one that is enormously larger than the human brain because the slow speed of communication. what we have if you have a much larger entity, is a community of a bunch of separate thinking organisms because the thinking has to be done in a fairly small volume to have the repit id of the communication. so in that respect it's probably going to be like us. doesn't have to be shaped

like us. >> even before you reach that stage, though, there is a setup of 6 conditions that you have enumerated in your fascinating volume. one of which is the significance of circular orbits and how common they are in the solar system. you need those circular orbits for what? >> well, it's important there be large planets, jupiter like planet in a circular orbit -- >> not ellipt call. >> pretty close to circumstance lal. and the reason is that if you don't have a circumstance lal orbit, then -- sircular -- then the smaller planet's orbits will be disresult erupted. they won't be stable themselves. also jupiter has another great role on the solar system of deflecting a lost of the things that might hit earth and cause catastrophe. >> before we leave this, if the earth were to get askew,

and cockeyed, your book says in a footnote, it could be remedied. it could be remedied by altering the orbit of the earth and correcting it. >> yes. >> aligning it. >> yes, by using mars commet. not something we can do with today's technology but we can -- >> let's hear it. maybe this is where you want your next grant from nasa. [laughter] this could be done, that is aligning the orbits so that it spins differently and therefore i guess has a -- talking about a linear direction to it? >> actually, the proposal is -- >> let me read it. this could be done by altering the orbit of a large commet so that on its rare passages through the inner solar system, it passes repeatedly close to both the earth and jupiter

and to do this, would require perturbing the commet's orbit using large rockets. it would of course be crucial to prevent this commet from crashing into the earth during these maneuvers. meanwhile, astronomical catastrophes like the one that decide the dinosaurs 65 million years ago can be a burden in the futureure by changing the orbits of astroids and comets. these tasks would require improvements in our astronomical and rocketry capabilities that should be possible relatively soon. that's a product not oy of you but of fred a ce can ski, a l mon. aysel

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and the o mars rotation actllyolates silently and if mars hade like t wouldn't happen. so this is played a tremendous role. also the tides have very usef living organisms. >> so we have the gaxynd the galaxy is of what? pyramid like ac pyramid? food pyramid that is put out by the department of agriculture, how much of what do have where in the pyramid? stt at the t. >> well, we are made of the rarest stuff in the entire >> first o get all those conditions together in order to have a habitable place, correct? all of these major elements and there a of those that you describe.

then you have to have the properties of life there. we talked about that. in the previ >> what is the pyramid? >> we call this the cosmic scwhnirsyramids and it is made of. so at the top of the pyramid, you can think ever this as being a pyramid on the back er i a glowing little triangle at the top. >>.the med toicye and then the 13 steps the pyramid representing the original 13 colonies on the bottom. >> what's at the very peek? >> at t pk, is the eye and this glow around it. supposed to represent the eye of pvinc what we are doing is we are borrowing that symbol and saying if you imagine the top part in relation to the tt pts representing the volume of the two parts, representing the relative amount of the different stf, the upper part

represents the hvy elements in the universe, the carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, iron, everything except high jen and helium. all of tse heaviel elements, every atom in your body that is made of carbon and so forth, w manufactured dp inside a star. and that was blown out, typically in the end stages of the star's life. and later on, it became incorporatedded into our solar system, theth and -- >> and our bodies. >> it's the rarest stuff in the universe. about 100 of a percent of the universesad o heavy elements. that's that pyramid at the top. now the big part of the pymi,hich is about a 1/2% that is actually the visible stuff in the universe, t srs >> that's about 25%?

>> no the visible stuff, half a percent. everything we can see. - enou lk out at night -- >> i thought your dark matter was 25% and then your dark energy was what 50%? >> about0% >> 70? >> yes. so the dark matter about 25% and the dark at oms, the at om we can't see about 4 1/2%, tt is most of the universe as far ats matnd en the dark energy, the stuff making i if you add those elements up, elements, if you add those parts of the pyramid up, you have 70% that's invisible,. >> dark energy. >> then you have dark matter which is about5% then you are up to 95% and then you have about%

>> 4 1/2% of invisible atoms. >> invisible atoms? so the universe i invisible to the human eye? >> except for half a percent. half of 1% of all we see. >> that doesn't mean it's not demonstrably there because it's gravitational? but there is nothing you can see under a microscope? at this point. >>ight. >> you think there will be? >> i am very hopeful in the next few years we'll figure out what the dark matter is. >>ou needomething from nasa to pursue that? >> we would like to have it from nasa and various other federal agencies in the united states and also other science organizations around the world. for example, next year, the europeans are going to launch a large collidener genev a there is also a lot of u.s. scientists involved. >> is that trest recall? >> it's located deep underground on the border between switzerland and

france t goes all the time between -- it's the world largest at somsmasher and we are hoping with much higher energy we'll have there thanny ever had before we may be able to start making particles of dark matter. >> is that a mile in sflength? much bigger. 27 kilometers around. >> 27 kilometers is about 5 miles? >> no, about 15 miles. >> 15 miles. >> around. it's quite large. >> going to travel at high speeds? >> nearly the speed of light. we'll have two beams going in opposite directions pro tons hitting pro tons and they will collide with 10 times more energy than we ever had. >> are american scientists involved? >> there is about 1,000 american scientists who are heavily involved. but there are many more europeans involved. it's a mainly european project. the united states was building a similar machine in texas but stopped that in

the early nintss. >> the what are you trying to find out? >> many things we want to find out. what i'm especially interested in is what the dark matter made of? what's the main stuff in the universe? we think there is a good thans this machine will low us to produce the stuff in the laboratory. there are also many experiments going on trying to detect the dark matter deep underground for example where it's shielded from cosmic rays. you think it's possible that if the dark matter is invisible, that there is anything corresponding to a human being, which might be out there, and also invisible? >> no the thing about -- >> as we understand rationalitiet and brain and the sell lawyer constructs and molecular constructs the body, there ising in -- cellular -- >> we are made of star dust. you have to understand that dark matter is simple. even dark energy may be simple. they represent 95% of the

universe but they don't have nearly the complexity that atoms can have. and we are made of the most complicated atoms. which are as joel said, star dust in a sense that they were cooked in the middle of stars and then burst out when the stars died. so all of the really interesting complexity in the universe is happening in this very, very small amount of atoms. that's one of the reasons why we are extremely special that we are made of the rarest material in the universe. >> is there any dispute about any of this? -- is jarred diamond onboard? is guld on the matter of intelligence, human intelligence is not replicable, he says, as far as he can see and he continues to say that, right? >> of course steve gouled is no longer with us.

he -- >> he passed on? >> yes. he said if you replay the tape of evolution, we wouldn't be created the next time around. that we were just an accident. that's what steve gouled says. >> lauren ice league is he still with us? >> no. >> he's passed on too? >> yes. >> every creature alive is the prodetect of a unique history, the nowhere in all space or in 1,000 worlds will there be men to share our lonliness. >> that's very uplifting hu? i think it helps us appreciate that we are unique. it's very unlikely as we said so beautifully, that there is going to be is there any center to the universe that is identifiable? >> no. >> there is no center? but your book says from the center of the universe, what does that mean? >> we are central in ways

that derive from the principals of physics. it's not a geographical center. in the middle ages people thought the earth was the center of the universe and then people thought there was no place in the universe that was different. it was just an infinite open space. we know that's not the picture of the universe now. and we have found ways that we humans are central, at the center of all possible size no, sir universe. we are made of the rarest material in the universe. star dust. we are at the center of time in several different ways. we are actually integrated into this universe in very special ways. we are not just thrown together. >> we are almost out of time. i have questions for you. do you think we are also recapittative in our entity, in our being? >> do you mean are we -- >> we capit lating the whole history of the universe?

>> we actually still include much of the history of the universe because we are made of atoms were made in snars. >> do you agree with that? >> and we are made of particles that came out of the big bang they are in us. that's what we are. her creature just like us. >> congratulations on the book. we are out of time. but i really enjoyed the show and i'm sure our lisners have and it's a very expansive book meaning that it is -- it gives the reader a sense of unique buoyancy and also the -- there is so much intrigue there too. thank you very much for being here joel and nancy. >> thank you. if. for such a small if i live to a hundred.

if social security isn't enough. if my heart gets broken. if she says yes. we believe if should never hold you back. if should be managed with a plan that builds on what you already have. together we can create a personal safety net, a launching pad, for all those brilliant ifs in the middle of life. you can call on our expertise and get guarantees for the if in life. after all, we're metlife.