>> hello, welcome to the journal on dw-tv. i am meggin leigh with the news. >> thank you for joining us. i am steve chaid. >> here's what we have for the show. unrest in the arab world continues as governments in iran, yemen, and libya tried to crack down on the protest movements. thousands gather on cairo's tahrir square to mark mubarak's fall a week ago today. germany's defense minister denies he cheated to get his doctorate. it has been another day of spreading unrest and violence of

people throughout the middle east. we will give you a country-by- country update now, starting in bahrain, where security forces and begin opened fire on protesters in the capital manama. a senior hospital official says he admitted over 60 wounded, four in critical condition. the violence occurred as crowds gathered for the funerals of demonstrators who were killed on thursday. witnesses said the shootings were carried out by the military, which was taking up positions on pearl square. international pressure is mounting, and bahrain's royal family has promised a national dialogue with all parties. in yemen, security forces in protest government loyalists clashed with crowds demanding the resignation of the president. at least five protesters there were killed and dozens wounded in hot spots across the country. medics said four people died from bonn want the blood gunshot wound on the southern city of aden. there were other casualties

around the country when a man dressed hand grenade into the crowd. in libya, clashes between security forces and demonstrators demanding the resignation of the leader there, muammar qaddafi. a video uploaded to you do probably shows protesters in a port city on thursday knocking down a statue of khaddafi's green book, which outlines the leader's political views. unrest throughout the country, despite the regime's tough line. unofficial reports put the death toll there at 24. all of these protests are taking place as hundreds of thousands of people crowded into cairo's tahrir square to celebrate the ouster of hosni mubarak exactly a week ago. egyptians also want to keep up the pressure on the new military rulers for a swift transition to democracy. the military has promised to reform the constitution and stage free elections to return the country to civilian rule within six months. >> it is a day of joyous

celebration. hundreds of thousands flocked to tahrir square to join in. at noon, participants joined in friday prayers, led by an influential egyptian theologian. he told the assembled that the jobs revolution was ongoing and that the country must undergo a renewal. he also warned his countrymen not to become divided and spoke to the power of a unified egyptian people. >> not long ago here on tahrir square, are christian brothers protected their muslim brothers as they prayed. i would like to invite them to join the muslims in bowling down and giving thanks to god. >> the demonstrators also commemorated the 365 people killed during the protests. news spread of the military rulers new facebook page, a

clear nod to the growing clout of egypt's young generation. >> coming up in "in depth," we will be joined by a middle east analyst to discuss the needs to happen now to move egypt towards democracy. turning now to germany, the country's defense minister, karl-theodor zu guttenberg, remains under pressure to resign after accusations that he plagiarized part of his doctoral thesis. he has apologized for what he called errors and said he never intended to plagiarize the work of others. it is not the first time germany's most popular politician has faced controversy, but these accusations could cost him his job. >> the german defense ministers long-awaited statement was surprisingly low-key. >> the dissertation i wrote is not a worker plagiarism. i emphatically deny the accusation. it was written in laborious detail over time of around seven years, alongside my duties as a

member parliament and a young father. it undoubtably contains errors. no one is more unhappy about that than me. >> karl-theodor zu guttenberg read his statements to a group of hand-picked journalists. >> he makes his own decisions. it is not for me to interpret that furthered to comment on it from here. >> in the meantime, he has apologized to journalists for his handling of his statement. but more and more questions are being raised about his dissertation. researchers have now found some 80 problematic text passages. the opposition greens say that the explanation is not enough. >> we will not let him get away with remaining silent. we will be addressing this issue in the coming weeks in

parliament. and if necessary, we will schedule a parliamentary debate. >> the ongoing public debate about his dissertation has the potential of becoming a serious crisis for angela merkel's start cabinet minister. >> our correspondent has been following the story, and he told us how this scandal differs from the other controversies faced by karl-theodor zu guttenberg. >> this controversy is far more serious for the defense minister than anything else he has faced before, because it impacts his integrity, and that has the potential to undermine his credibility as a defense minister. in the past, and the defense minister has faced difficulties with situations with his handling of things that happened in the field before the deaths of military personnel in the field, for example. but in this case, we're talking about plagiarism allegations for

which the minister himself is directly responsible. in the past, karl-theodor zu guttenberg has always been able to blame someone else. he has been able to reprimand someone else. in this case, there will be no one else to reprimand of the allegations are substantiated. the university will ultimately decide whether the defense minister acted honorably when he wrote his dissertation thesis. however, at this point, the minister's reputation and his career hang in the balance. >> that was terry martin from earlier. two german soldiers have been killed and seven seriously injured in a shooting incident in afghanistan. these are photographs of the attack, which occurred in baghlan province in the north of the country. a spokesman for the nato security force says a lone gunman was wearing an afghan army uniform and fired on german troops as they were carrying out maintenance on a military

vehicle. ok, let's turn our attention to paris, were a big meeting is underway. >> i do not want to sound too cynical, but straightening out the problems of the global economy over a lavish dinner at the palace. leaders are meeting in paris, focusing on global economic imbalances in the problem of rising food prices. as host and current holder of the g-20 leadership, french president nicolas sarkozy is expected to warn finance ministers and central bankers over dinner in paris who are attending the summit that they cannot afford to fail in their search for agreement on measures to resolve global imbalances. >> french president nicolas sarkozy will be guiding an ambitious agenda for the paris the g-20 finance ministers' meeting. over the next two days, the finance ministers of the world's developed and emerging economies will try to tackle financial market speculation and reform the international monetary system. in his opening address, sarkozy

said that national interests first would finish the g-20 as an institution. >> either we all move forward together or no one does. and if we cannot reach agreement, then we will stagnate. >> food prices are another major issue. the food index rose dramatically last year as the cost of bread, oil, and other basics shot up, causing serious problems for poor countries. wheat alone has doubled in price inside one year. president sarkozy has called for four -- for firm action, but living on the issue could be tapped as the g-20 is divided on how to approach the problem. >> data from friday in germany showed that producer prices rose on an average of about 6% in january, compared to the same month last year. soaring energy costs were the main driver behind the increase to the cost of fuel oil rose by more than 30%, and natural gas

was up by 45%. producer prices are tracked closely because they are a leading indicator of inflation trends. on to the markets and european shares which were weaker on friday, but the dax managed to finish with gains. conrad paul sent us this wrap up the day's trading action from frankfurt. >> the german stock market did not manage to decide on a direction all day. what made investors and secure was between other reasons, the unrest in countries of the mediterranean and the middle east and a credit defaults swaps for government bonds from bahrain and saudi arabia were on the rise again. also the prices for silver and gold continued to increase. on the stock markets, car shares declined, because in china, the government again took measures against an overheating of the economy and against inflation. which means that german car makers must prepare for less in

new orders from china. >> that was from a frankfurt, where we can stay for a closer look at the market numbers. germany's blue-chip dax finished 0.3% higher going into the weekend, 7426. the euro stoxx 50 index of leading eurozone blue chips added a couple points, finishing at 3058. on wall street, the dow jones average up by 0.4%, 12,369. currency markets, the year of trading at a value of $1.3686. the reuters news agency said it has received confirmation from two auto industry insiders that german carmaker volkswagen and a russian group has agreed on a joint venture to produce 300,000 cars per year in russia. while both firms have yet to confirm the deal, volkswagen did an ounce late last year that was in advanced talks with the russians. the joint venture will reportedly make a range of

volkswagen brands, including the jetta and other models. industry analysts predict rapid growth in the russian markets and expected to overtake germany as the largest producer of passenger cars and light commercial vehicles in europe by the year 2018. the government of ivory coast said it has seized a number of foreign banks after the shutdown operations are in the country. reuters news agency says that local branches of soc gen and bnp will be reopened as nationalized banks. it is the latest move in the standoff with the international community. the incumbent leader refuses to step down, although the u.n.- backed election commission says it lost last november's presidential paul. the ivory coast is now facing financial collapse. four banks shut down operations in compliance with international sanctions designed to force the

leader of power. that is your business update. back to meggin leigh. >> thank you. the german islam conference is an important annual forum between the german state and muslims living here in the country. the next meeting is due this spring, but already topics of discussion are gathering pace. around 40 used, including high school and university students, are giving their input. the current uprising across the arab world along with the integration debate here in germany are likely to shake the proceedings. >> and young people play a key role in promoting integration in germany. is a political science student from berlin. he believes popular uprisings in the arab world could alter how germans view the region. >> democracy is one of the best export to germany and europe have to offer. but it has to be imputed to the political culture, a culture where arab muslims view themselves as citizens, not as

subjects, as they were for years >> and we have the director of the young islamic conference. the german-iranian is convince the upheavals will permanently alter germany's image of muslims. >> now when we look at the arab world, we suddenly connected with the struggle for liberty, with a revolution, with enlightened users of technology with internet activists. and with peaceful masses standing up for freedom and their rights. >> and many participants in the conference believe this could be crucial for the acceptance of muslims in germany. >> to the movies now. today's high lead at the berlin film festival was a european premiere of the action thriller "un noem." liam niessen plays an american scientist cannot remember his real identity after a car accident in berlin. he tries to keep together his memory, but appears imposters have taken his place to the film

is pulling out of competition. the festival wraps up on saturday. that film was shot entirely here in berlin with some amazing car chases. i asked our berlin film correspondent to tell us more about the film. >> it stars liam nieesen, but the real star is the city of berlin. it is great to see the city in such a huge hollywood action movie. instead of paris, new yorker are london. i saw the movie this morning at the press screening with other journalists, and they loved it. they love seeing their city portrayed this way in being on such a big screen, such a big movie. they loved it every single time one of their landmarks such trash train is moving. they just cheered uproariously. it is a bit of a silly film and a little derivative, but it is great fun. at the get is a great way to end the festival. >> all of the competition films have been shown. how would you rate them? >> well, i do not think it was

really a great year. i only saw a couple of films that i thought were worth watching, to be honest. one film stands out, the iranian film. i think it is definitely the front runner for the golden bear. it is a personal story about a family breakup set against the backdrop of political repression in iran. both being an excellent film and given the situation in the middle east at the moment, i think the jury will definitely choose this film. if it does not win the golden bear, i will be very much surprised. the other prizes, silver bears and so forth, it is a crapshoot really. i have no idea. >> it is a crapshoot for the silver? >> yes, i cannot really say. one silver bear i really hope goes to vanessa redgrave. she gave an astounding performance in the shakespeare adaptation. that is my hope, but one never knows. >> we will be watching out on saturday night. as always, thank you for that

update from the red carpet. stay tuned for "in depth" coming up next. ♪ >> people with ideas and that halting climate change doing their bit all over the world. >> i save 40% on fuel costs. >> sunlight is free, and we should use it. >> this is clean, renewable energy. >> global ideas, global 3000, on dw-tv.

>> critical, vibrant, in a cage, it just like us. dw-tv, quality first. >> an estimated two million people swept into central cairo on friday as part of a nationwide victory march to celebrate the ousting of president hosni mubarak one week ago. and the end of his 30-year rule in egypt. the rally was also aimed at reminding the country's new military rulers of the power on the street. the army has promised to move to a civilian government as soon as possible, but it faces major challenges in the weeks and months ahead. >> the protesters in cairo put their lives on the line for a free and democratic egypt. that toppled president, but what does the future hold for the country now? ♪

>> the ruling military council has set up a committee to draw up a new constitution. for most of the last 44 years, egypt has been governed by emergency law. it has often been used to curtail the civilian and political rights of the population. give a succession of army- backed president's unlimited control. a new constitution should lead to more separation of powers, more transparency, and more political accountability. >> free, fair, and credible elections were among the demands of the protesters on tahrir square. elections were held in mubarak's egypt, too, but the winners were always known beforehand.

mubarak and his state party, the ndp. now there's a real chance of an open democratic process. but the new egypt will define and politicians and parties quickly. elections can be held as soon as in six months. that is not long for the protest movement to organize itself into a political force. that could benefit those who are already organized, like the muslim brotherhood, which was banned under the mubarak regime. rapid elections could also benefit the successor party to the ndp. ♪ >> the country will also have to decide how to deal with the old regime. demonstrators have hung effigies of the president, that mubarak's actual whereabouts remain unknown. there are rumors that he is

seriously ill. the president is gone, but his power apparatus remains. many of those now organizing be transferred to democracy are the same man who backed mubarak for years. well they transfer their allegiance to the forces of democracy and maintain their positions of influence on egyptian society? >> for more, we're joined nine about -- now by our middle east analyst. egyptians have been celebrating the success of their revolution. what does the future hold for the hundreds of thousands of people who are gathered on tahrir square? >> that is an open question, because the politics in egypt have to be redefined. they have to be reinvented. there are structures for the time being that died at the country into a better future. but the egyptians are very much overwhelmed by this democratic experience, and they're willing to shake their future. new parties will have to come into being. it will take a lot of time until this work is really successfully done.

in the past, parties in egypt are nothing more than simply more or less gathering behind one single person, who is then considered to be the pasha, and this is not a democratically elected person doesn't visibly gave benefit and money to is followers. the hopes of political thinking and political institutions has to change. it can be done, but it has a long way to go. >> to say there is a long way to go, but the military has set out quite an ambitious timetable. they want to have a new constitution in place very soon. how realistic is that? >> it is realistic, but of course, many mistakes will be made along the way. it is not possible to really reinvent egyptian politics within half a year's time. it will take more than that, but i am optimistic that the egyptians will be able to shoulder this experience. because when you look at the pictures, two million people celebrating on cairo's tahrir square, and that means the egyptians are really hungry for

democracy. >> thank you. please stay with us. we will come back to you in a few minutes' time. perhaps it is a sign of how much trust the egyptians place in the military that the protesters have largely accepted the army's assumption of power. during the uprising, the military played a key role, refusing to use force to end the demonstrations. at the same time, of course, the military also played a key role in supporting the mubarak regime over the last 30 years. so the country's generals, officers, and rank-and-file soldiers face a delicate balancing act. >> as egypt's democracy movement celebrated its victory march, it was an army band that supplied the music. it is an image that aptly illustrates the relationship between the egyptian people and the military. the public largely trusts the army, which sided with protesters during the uprising. the military has deep social roots. it is the country's biggest

employer and is largely made up of conscripts, meaning most egyptian families have contributed to its ranks. >> i was in the army, too. these soldiers are my brothers, my family. they are a part of us. >> the army has always done a great job. we're proud of them. >> the generals were members of the elite, which benefited from the bark's rule. but many in the middle and lower ranks opposed the regime. many egyptians believed that is what the military did not crack down on the mass protests. >> the army has played an important role. it has done good work. i do not think it will take power. all its statements say it will transfer power to a civilian government and to the egyptian people. >> so far, the army's actions have been reassuring. we hope we will quickly hand

over power to civilian government. >> so far, it appears the hopes may be fulfilled. >> let's go back now to middle east analyst with us. the uprising was sparked by basic issues such as unemployment and rising food prices. are these problems that can be resolved? >> well, the military cannot really address these problems. egypt is a very poor country. half of the 80 million egyptians live beyond the poverty line, less than two dollars a day. almost half of the population consists of illiterates. there is quite some work to do, especially in the context of institution-building and in the context of education. it will take years, and this is a challenge for the europeans and americans as well. the need to invest, because we have very strong interests in this experiment to wind successfully. if not, egypt is a state that

might fall apart or in the buying chaos. this cannot be in our interest. there's a lot of work to do for all sides, but it can be done. >> in concrete terms, what can germany or the european union duty of the democratic process move forward in egypt? >> they could help to draw up a new constitution, to give good education to lawyers, to judges, to policemen, to military men. remember that the traditional attitude in egypt is simply be contradict me, i just slap you on the face. this attitude has to change. i think that the old system has understood very well that it needs to reinvent itself. but it will take a lot of time, and it is our duty, in my view, that we help egyptians to prepare for this change. it is really institution- building and education-building and financing good schools, universities, so people are willing to learn. >> once again, thank you for joining us.

that has been our look at the challenges facing egypt. thanks for joining us. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- ♪ ♪

>> hinojosa: she is a tireless advocate of dialogue between iran and the u.s. but on a 2007 trip to tehran, she was accused of treason, arrested, and placed in solitary confinement for 105 days. director of the middle east program at the woodrow wilson center, haleh esfandiari. i'm maria hinojosa. this is one on one. dr. haleh esfandiari, welcome to our program. >> thank you for having me. >> hinojosa: so, in the fall of 2007... no, in the spring of 2007, suddenly i go to my computer and i start seeing these emails that say, "there is

an iranian-american academic who is being held in a tehran prison. do everything that you can to try to get her out." and of course i started sending that to many people, and i received it from women's groups, from journalist groups, from human rights groups. i don't remember any of those emails saying that haleh esfandiari was a grandmother who was detained. how did you survive? you were 105 days in solitary confinement. >> it was very tough, maria, but i am a very disciplined person. and being 67 years old and a student of iran, having studied carefully, a lifetime, iran, i knew how to handle my interrogators, and i knew how to make it possible for myself to

survive under those very difficult and dire conditions, both physical and mental. >> hinojosa: when you say that you knew, what do you mean? i mean, you had never been in prison, you had never been interrogated before. how did you know how to survive these people who were terrorizing you? >> i was interrogated for four months before i was detained. outside prison, i used to spend with the same people eight to nine hours a day, day after day after day, going over the same questions and answers. and i knew their mentality. but once they took me in, i mean, i decided i either had to survive, or if i succumbed to despair, then they would have achieved what they wanted, meaning a forced confession from me.

>> hinojosa: you say that you never broke down when you were being interrogated, and i just think, "oh, my god, if i'm being interrogated nine hours a day, same question after same question, there would come a point where i would just say, 'i've done with you! be quiet! i don't want to hear...'" you know, just lose it. and yet you didn't. >> no, i didn't, because i knew that they wanted me to lose my temper. they wanted me to become angry. and then they would achieve what they had wanted. and i decided not to. and i would cry, but not in front of my interrogators, not the women guards. i would go to my cell at night, and when i would lie down on the floor on a few blankets, i would put my head under the chador, which was acting as my cover,

and my sheet, you know, and i would cry there. or i would go and cry under the shower. but i never cried in front of my interrogators. i never cried in front of women's guards. >> hinojosa: you know, you are... when people read your book my prison, my home, which is a story of your detention and the history of us-iranian relations, you are now a role model of a woman of strength. you... and i love this story. you survived... part of what you did to survive was that you would do pilates in solitary confinement in a women's prison in iran. >> yes. >> you were walking back and forth in your cell for hours. how did you develop that level of discipline, to just say, you know, "i will do my exercises, you know, for an hour here, for an hour there"? where did that kind of strength

come from? >> i didn't have a watch, first of all. you know, they took my watch. so when i was not interrogated, i had to kill the time. and i was suffering from macular degeneration, so i couldn't read more than maybe two hours a day, especially since i was writing all the time during the interrogation. i had to write the answers. >> hinojosa: by hand. >> by hand. >> hinojosa: with a pen. >> or a pencil, whatever was available. so i decided that if i don't do anything, if i go and sit in a corner of my cell, i would start thinking about my family. and i knew thinking about my family would break me down. so i decided that i have to do something to keep my body at least in good shape, quote-unquote, you know? and since i'm a fanatic about

exercising, i like pilates, i like walking, i decided to do pilates in my cell, and i decided to walk up and down the cell and count. so by doing pilates and counting all the time, it stopped me from thinking about that. >> hinojosa: did the women guards who were guarding you think you were a little crazy? here's this, you know, grandmother... >> 67-year-old woman. >> hinojosa: who's doing pilates and exercising in her cell. did they think you were... or did they look at you and say, "maybe i need to learn something from haleh"? >> well, it was interesting. some of them would come to me and say, "could you teach us some of the movement to tighten the muscles of our stomach," or, "could you teach us how to get our triceps in shape," you know? and i would laugh, and i would

teach them, you know. they would stand by the door, because they were not allowed to come into the cell when we were... when the inmates were in the cell. so they would stand by the door, and i would go on the floor and show them some situps, you know? but sure, they had never come across someone as strange as me. because they would come to me and say, "why don't you sit still?" because as long as i was moving they had to come and check regularly on me. but if i was sitting in a corner they could go out and have their cup of tea. >> hinojosa: so in the end... you know, again, from this... on this side, while you were being detained, we knew that you were an iranian-american academic, the head of the woodrow wilson center middle east program. but why do you believe, ultimately, that you were arrested, you know, interrogated? why were you the target? >> i was the target of the iranian intelligence ministry

and the office of the president, president ahmadinejad. and they believed that the united states was going to overthrow the regime, but because it was bogged down in iraq and in afghanistan-- don't forget, it was during the previous administration in 2007-- so they would resort to what they would call "soft means." and the instrument for bringing about such regime change through a velvet revolution, though soft means, were american foundations, american think tanks, and american universities. they didn't know how these institutions in the united states work. >> hinojosa: so let me... so basically, the iranian intelligence ministry and president's office believed that the woodrow wilson center, and you specifically, were holding conferences around iranian

issues, not with the intention of having academic dialogue, but with the ultimate intention of rthering american government policy to destabilize iran. >> perfectly-- you put it perfectly. their idea, or their understanding, was that we are inviting-- with the wilson center or other foundations, other think tanks, whatever-- were inviting iranian academics basically to recruit them, you know. >> hinojosa: so you're like a spy. i mean, you were, like, operating on behalf of the government. >> operating on behalf of the american government. and, you know, i would argue back. for eight months i had back-and-forth argument with these people, and trying to explain how these institutions in the united states work, that universities are not affiliated to the u.s. government, that

think tanks are independent, and foundations not only support, let's say, a program on iran, but they support programs on poverty, you know, alleviating poverty and many other things, for example. but didn't make headway at all, because they were convinced that this was all a front and that i was the perfect, you know, target for the u.s. government to be recruited and to be sent to iran to invite people-- which was ridiculous, you know. >> hinojosa: but at the same time, you know, the u.s. government-- not only the bush administration but other governments in the past-- have not been completely honest in terms of their relationships with other governments. >> sure, sure. >> hinojosa: i mean, there are stories of u.s. involvement in otherthrows... >> sure, sure. >> hinojosa: ...whether they were soft overthrows or direct

overthrows. >> sure, sure. >> hinojosa: so, you know, if you put yourself in the mind of the iranian government, they could in fact say, "yeah, the united states, they've done this before." >> yeah, but look. i mean, iran sees itself as the mightiest power in the persian gulf region. i remember one day through my interrogation, when again they brought up this whole notion of velvet revolution. i said, "look, iran is not a banana republic to be overthrown by 20 academics who come and take part in conferences. you consider yourself the mightiest power in the persian gulf. how do these two notions reconcile with each other?" and they said, "banana republic? what is a banana republic?" then i had to go into this, you know, the long lecture of what a banana republic is, because in persian it sounded very funny. >> hinojosa: you would allow

yourself to push back against your interrogators sometimes. not often. what gave you that kind of like... that strength at that moment, to say, "i am going to push back; i am going to point out the silliness in their own thought"? >> there was so much one can take, you know. i'm a very rational person. and for days and days and days you hear... you sit there and hear a lot of nonsense. at some stage you can't take it anymore, and therefore that's when i would push back, really, and i would say, "okay, i think you are wrong. i think you don't understand how these things function in the real world." >> hinojosa: would you say it kind of like that, in that kind of a tone? >> sure, sure. >> hinojosa: of a stern mother almost? >> sure, and i would always tell them, "look, i can easily be your grandmother. i don't know how old your mothers are or your grandmothers are," you know. i never, you know... i was blindfolded taken to

interrogation, and i had two interrogators. when the second one, who was the boss, was there, i had to sit and face the wall. >> hinojosa: it's so crazy. now, in the end, after 105 days, you are released. they give you a gift, a parting gift of poetry, a beautiful book of poetry. but why, in the end, do you think you were released? did it have to do with those emails that those of us here in this country were sending? what was the ultimate decision as to why? >> i think the international pressure had a lot to do with my release. it really did. i mean, i didn't know-- i was in prison, completely cut off from the rest of the world. >> hinojosa: and did you think that people in the united states cared, knew? >> absolutely not. all i knew is that my husband would do everything he can to get me out.

but i didn't know that they had... really there was a whole world working on my behalf, all the way from japan to brazil, you know? i mean, it was amazing. i found out once i was released. but i think there was a big discussion going on internally in the intelligence ministry among the people who arrested me and who were opposed to my arrest. in the beginning, when they arrested me, the more radical element of the intelligence ministry prevailed. in the end, when they released me, it was because the office of the leader intervened and the more moderate elements in the intelligence ministry finally got their way and said, "okay, this is becoming too embarrassing for us. let her go." because i was released in september and president

ahmadinejad comes every year towards the end of september to attend the united nations... >> hinojosa: the united states, right, of course. >> ...meeting in the u.s. and i think they decided that he would probably face a barrage of questions about arresting a 67-year-old grandmother and... >> hinojosa: i think he might have, yes. i think he might have found a lot of people protesting and probably a lot of women. your cause for women academics, for women journalists, for women activists, for feminists, your cause became so important. and i think that there are many people who don't know about the nature of the iranian women's movement. it is a very strong and historical movement of women in iran. and you were a part of that as well. >> yes. >> hinojosa: talk a little bit about that history of women's engagement. because, you know, so many people now in this country just see the veiled iranian woman,

who seems submissive, who seems powerless. in fact, it's quite different. >> actually, even today... let me start with today and go back. even today, iranian women are not submissive. absolutely not. you know, for the last 30 years, it has been the women who have formed the only group who stood up to the regime because the idea of this regime was to send women back to their homes. you know, they had served their purpose, they had come out, they had protested in favor of overthrowing the monarchy, the establishment of an islamic republic. thank you very much, go home. but women were not going to go home, and they started fighting at every step of the way, every new law that was passed in restricting women's rights in iran. just to give you an example, the age of marrying was lowered

after the revolution from 18... for girls, from 18 to nine. >> hinojosa: to nine? >> to nine, which is puberty in islam. there was such an outcry. there was so much protest, so much activity that finally, after 20 years, ten years ago they increased it to 13. but this does not mean that every iranian girl is married off by the age of 13; on the contrary, the mean age of marriage in iran for girls is now over 20. but still, it was the women who pushed and pushed and pushed. and women from all strata of the society. i mean, i can't believe that the conservative woman wants to marry off her daughter at the age of 13. or, for example, the right to seek a divorce. or polygamy. you know, or political participation of women. all these things were taken away from women, you know. and it was the women who were

pushing back from... from this. and in 2006, a group of women and men started a campaign in iran to collect a million signatures to do away with all discrimination against women. the leader of the campaign now is sitting in jail. when i was in jail, they would constantly arrest members of the em anog them ton, gr thas been an ongoingbualesacg tohe eiri

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o renew eir rmit. but then they had on their hands 30 million journalists >> hinojosa: on the ground. >> .on the ground because everybody, to use their cell phone... >> hinojosa: and we were all getting inform information from them at this end. >> hinojosa: so, finally, haleh, you have not gone back to iran since you were detained there. y u nn gback. are you optimistic? should we be optimistic about the future of iran?

>> look, i'm an optimist by nature, and i believe this repressive phase that is going on in iran today-- and it's one of the worst periods of... in the history of the iranian revolution-- the sheer number of arrests, torture, killing, and what we have seen in the streets and what is happening in the but i think the green movement has a future. and it is an indigenous r abroad. and itveflnc by them. so... and i don't think that the government will succeed in killing the movement completely. i think there is an urge among the almost 70 percent who are under the age of 30. you cannot restrain them; you cannot restrict their movement.

they have demands and they will come out to get them. >> hinojosa: and we are so thankful that you came out alive from this experience. it's just been an honor. >> thank you. hoja:ha y, . haleh esfandiari, thank you so much. >> thank you very much. >> hinojosa: continue the conversation at bhrgneon captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org