y. and i'll take it even further than that. i would add that i think that in this exploration of our emotions and our money, there's also spiritual lessons to be learned. i have learned many, many spiritual lessons in the world of money. now, there has never been a better time for us to consider all of this than right now. the truth is, we are beginning to witness a massive transfer of wealth. it's the largest intergenerational shift of money that we've ever seen in the united states. experts estimate that, from as little as $41 trillion -- that's with a "t," trillion dollars -- to as much as as $136 trillion will change hands over the next decades. it's actually already begun. maybe some of you are already participating in this. but it began in, roughly, 1998, and we expect that it will continue out to approximately

the year 2052. now, there are several sources for this. first of all, think about our population. we have an aging, elderly population. and who were these people? this was a generation of savers, was it not? and as these people pass, their money will pass to their heirs, but also to the government in the form of taxes, and also to charitable organizations they wish to fund. so, that's one source. the second source is the baby-boomers, here we come. and i'm part of this generation. the baby-boomers are now getting to the point of retirement, the oldest of the baby-boomers. well, when many people retire -- it's not te for everyone -- but when many people retire, they start to draw their money out of corporate retirement plans. so the money moves from a corporation right into your lap. and that's another movement of money. and then the third source is actually the baby-boomers once again. as we age and we become the elderly part of the population, then we will disperse our money to our heirs,

to the government, to charitable organizations, et cetera. now, in our business, we call this "money in motion," and one thing we know about money in motion is thait causes turmoil, it causes anxiety. but it also causes tremendous opportunity. the truth is that more and more of us than ever before are going to have these opportunities to make money decisions and to explore our emotional relationship to money. more of us than ever before are going to be coming face to face with our own fears and our own dreams. but this is a great opportunity. this is an opportunity now for us to cultivate better relationships to money. if you're not happy with the relationship you see -- and i hope that you'll all be thinking about your own relationship to money as we talk today -- then this will present opportunities to change your relationship to money. let me tell you, if i may, how i discovered some of the stories and the emotion behind the money.

it all happened, actually, on one day. some time ago, when three separate client situations presented themselves in such an odd juxtaposition that i couldn't help but notice the emotion behind these stories. the first was a gentleman that i'd worked with for quite some time, a very, very successful businessman. and he had been negotiating the sale of his business. so he called me up at home and he said, "it's done, i've got it. "i'm holding in my hand a check for several million dollars. would you meet me in your office?" yes, i would meet him in the office. ran right out the back door. so, we met in his office, and you can imagine how festive it was. this was a wonderful moment for him. he was proud, he was happy, it was the culmination of a lifetime of hard work in building a business, all the ups and downs. and here was the reward that people dream of, and, in fact, it was larger than most.

so, he was very, very happy. and i was very happy for him. we quickly got to work implementing the strategy that he had decided upon and we'd discussed at great length. but then as he was about to leave, he asked me if i would call a friend of his. now, this was a friend who worked for a company that was being bought out by another company, a very common situation in corporate america. the new owners of this company were about to terminate the retirement plan, and they had decided that everyone would receive his or her share of the money in the retirement plan. my client mentioned to me in passing that his friend was a little nervous. he said she had a few questions, but she was a little nervous. so i said i would call her that afternoon. well, ladies and gentlemen, "little nervous" didn't begin to describe what this poor woman was experiencing. in all my years of dealing with people and their money, i had never seen anyone so petrified

about making some decisions on some. but think about the situation she was in, a very common situation in today's work world. her company was changing hands. nobody knew exactly what job they would have when the dust settled. they didn't know if they would even have jobs when the dust settled. and they were being asked to make these decisions right away on this money. this money had come to represent for her all this uncertainty, all this change. somehow all of her anxiety about her job situation got focused on this money. it represented all change, and this was a person who hated change. she was absolutely terrified. so i spoke with her a bit and i was able to answer several of her questions, and she seemed to be more peaceful about things. so i headed home that day, and as i was driving, i did think about the fact that here were two very different situations. both of them very emotional.

both of them important turning points in the business lives of these people. and both of these individuals were dealing with the largest sum of money they had ever had to make decisions on in their life. and both of them were in the midst of a lot of emotion. one was very happy, and the other was very frightened. as i thought about that, however, my assistant called me and said, "you need to call this client right away." she was talking about another client, and this was a person whom i didn't know quite as well. i had only worked wi jeanne for a short time. she and her husband had just retired. they were fairly young for retirement, and they were very excited about all they were going to do. they had lots of plans -- that very morning, jeanne's husband was killed in an automobile accident. now, i'll bet you wouldn't think that a person calls their financial advisor on the day of their husband's death. but many people do, you'd be surprised. many people call us

on the day that there's been a death. of course i pulled off the road and i called her right away. well, she was overwhelmed with grief and sorrow and confusion. we talked at length, she talked about him and herself. and then she got to the money. it turned out that her husband had a sum of money that a friend was recommending that she make some changes on. now, the friend was trying to help. but he was a financial advisor, and so he was recommending that she make some decisions on this money. i'd like to give this gentleman the benefit of the doubt. i know he wanted to reach out and to help her and that was a way he could reach out and help her, but this poor woman didn't know what shoes to put on, let alone how to make a decision on the money. she was such a gentle and a quiet person that i was stunned when she yelled into the telephone, "susan! i don't want to think about this stuff. you handle it!" and she slammed the phone down. so there were my three different major situations, lives.

each one of them very, very emotional, and each one with an enormous financial ramification. and that was the day that i began to understand that our money and our emotions are inextrly linked, and they always will be, and i believe that they should be. so, what's your relationship to your money. i hope you're starting to think about stories that you've experienced and seen in your own family. well, throughout this show, we'll be talking about how you can begin to understand what kind of a money type you have, what's your personal style with money. and we'll also be talking about why i believe it's so important that you know. over the years, i've identified approximately seven different money types, if you will, types of relationships. most people are some kind of a combination, and sometimes we're one type over one pool of money and another type over another pool of money, but let me describe

just two of them to you here if i could. the first one is what i call "the wolf never leaves my door" type. this is a person who always experiences a sort of low-level fear about money. they fear everything about money. they fear losing it, they fear running out of it, they fear being taken advantage of. they fear making a mistake with it. and interestingly, they often also fear someone else getting more than their share of money. these people believe so much more in poverty than they do in wealth. for them, there's always poverty. even if they're wealthy, and some of them are wealthy. but their belief in scarcity is so much stronger than their belief in abundance that the wolf will never leave the door. for them there can never be enough, so money is kind of a constant focus for them.

let me tell you, if i may, a story of kind of an extreme example of this. this was a man i worked with. he was a very good gentleman, very wealthyentleman. he was always very kind and courteous when he dealt with me, but i noticed that he was awfully negative. he did seem to focus on things that he... he had no control over, and he complained a lot about things like that. and one day he was on the phone with me, and he was telling me about his daughter. his daughter was going through a pretty rough patch. she had divorced. she had four children that she had to take care of. she really was having trouble making ends meet, and she couldn't find an adequate job. so my client described to me how he was helping her out with a little bit of money each month. and he had taken his grandkids to get them school clothes and he'd bought them some school supplies, et cetera, so that was all great. but as i listened to him, i could hear that there was fear in his voice. i could hear that it bothered him to do this.

not that he didn't want to help them. of course he wanted to help them, he loved them. but it bothered him to have this extra expense. and it really bothered him that he didn't know how long this extra expense would last. so i had a very disjointed feeling as i talked to him that day. i'd listen to him, i heard his words, i understand what he was saying, but i was looking at a computer screen on which i could see an account value -- an account where there was literally millions of dollars. how could it be that this man -- who's very wealthy and had more than enough money for his lifetime and probably his children and grandchildren as well -- could honestly fear that this small expense would jeopardize him? and i repeat, it wasn't that he didn't want to help them. he did want to help them, but he feared this added expense. and the wolf never left his door.

the unfortunate part of that story is that he was so concerned about this that he was, i think, a bit stingy with his daughter. and so, unfortunately, she is now having the expience of poverty that he fears more than anything else. unfortunately, his fear is probably now deeply embedded in her heart. another generation. so that's one type, "the wolf never leaves my door." here's another type, very different. and i think we all know some of these people. this is what i like to call the money martyr. we all know people who like to be victims. if you are a person who sees yourself as a victim, there's nothing quite like money to sabotage you. you can sabotage yourself in creative and unusual ways using your money. and the money martyr is a person who will always find a way to undermine himself or herself using money.

if i may tell you another story. was a young man that i worked with at one point many years ago. he had been embroiled in a court battle over an inheritance from his father. when i met him, this was drawing to a close. and he was going to be receiving some money. as he described this court battle to me, it became clear that this battle had absolutely enlivened him. this was his reason for being, this battle that he went through. and he fought and fought for this money. finally, now, he came to see me because he was about to receive it. in fact, he had prevailed. and the courts had awarded him quite a bit of money, and he wanted now to plan a strategy for investing this money that he was planning to live off of. well, that's all well and good, but the problem was that at that time, we were in very, very strong markets. they had been returning tremendous numbers.

we had had investments that had been returning 20%, 23%. it was a golden time. [ chuckles ] and he watched all those advertisements, and he imagined himself, on this sum of money, living off a very high return. when i began to project forward what i thought we could possibly earn on the money, he just laughed at my caution, because, of course, i was using a moderate number. he laughed at my caution and said, "no, i think we need to use 25% annual return." doesn't that sound wonderful? 25% annual return on this money. why, of course, i resisted this high number, and he just laughed at me and insisted that we use 25%. he insisted, i resisted. the amazing thing to me was that he still wanted to work with me. because at every turn, i was telling him what he did not want to hear. and yet he kept asking for my advice. i kept giving it to him, he kept ignoring it. now, i wish i could tell you the end of this story.

i'm afraid i have to disappoint you, because the truth is i could not accept this young man as a client. i knew that this young man was on his way to sabotaging himself. there was no way we would be able to continue to earn 25% a year. it just wasn't going to happen. he, however, had imagined 25% return and how he was going to live on that, and he liked what he saw. of course he did, of course he did. so i could not accept him as a client. i can only hope that some other advisor connected better with him and was able to make him be a little bit more moderate in his expectations. because in the years that followed, we did not receive 25% returns in any of the markets. if he was not able to be more reasonable and get a handle on his emotion, then i fear he sabotaged himself. he was a money martyr if ever there was one. now, there are several other types, too, and i'd like to describe them to you just very briefly.

one is what i call the "money is king" type. this is the person for whom money trumps everything. this is the person who judges everything through the prism of money. and then there's the "i'll pick up the bill if you'll just..." type -- we've all met this person. this is the person who uses his or her money to manipulate people and to dominate people. then there's the little lamb type. this is the person who remains childlike in relationship to money. it doesn't have to be a bad thing. they just don't want to think about it. they just don't want to think about it. they couldn't possibly understand it. they have no interest in it. they don't want to look at it. they may or may not be irrational. i see some people kind of smiling at each other, and even pointing to each other. they may or may not be irrational, but they just don't want to think about it. not all the types are bad. there are some people who have amazing peace when it comes to money. and this is what i call the "all is well" type.

these are people who are peaceful in their relationship to money, they're trusting in their relationship to money, and they're trustworthy in relationship to money. they make excellent financial decision makers. and then there's the best type of all, the one that i aspire to. this is called the "spread the joy" type. these are people who understand that money is only a tool. it's no more, no less. for them, there will always be peace and abundance no matter how much money they have. they will spread the joy, and that's the best of all. so, why should you care about any of this? i hope you're thinking now about, "okay, which one am i?" i hope you're thinking about that. why should we care? we should care, i think, because there is great potential in understanding these types. i believe that we can be much better financial decision makers if we confront and understand and embrace, if you will, our emotional relationships to money.

it's not that your decisions will be that much easier. they may not be, they may be very difficult decisions. but the process of making the decision will be better. and i would also submit that this is very important in the times that we live in. sometimes when you make financial decisions, things are going to be turbulent. now, the turbulence may come from within. it may be because you're in some difficult situation and you don't know what to do. but the turbulence can also come from the outside. the markets can be incredibly turbulent, as we all know. the economy can be turbulent, and the global economy can be turbulent. the better you understand the emotions you're bringing to your money, the better you're able to analyze and make decisions. i also think that it can make us, not just better financial decision makers, but also better people. because think about money in your life. is there really any aspect of your life where there's not a financial side?

every aspect of our life has a financial side. and it may be very small and it may be peripheral, but it's always there. and, of course, sometimes it's center stage. sometimes it's the most important consideration. well, if money is this thing that runs through every aspect of our lives, then of course our emotions are going to be important. i think that if you can understand the emotions that you bring to money and to your attitudes about money, that you will understand other things in your life. because whatever emotion you're bringing to money, it's probably a cornerstone. if you're a fearful person when it comes to your money, well, you may be a fearful person elsewhere. if you're a generous person when it comes to your money, you may be a generous person elsewhere as well. so i think there is the potential for personal growth in understanding these relationships. in addition to that, i would take it one step further. i believe that there are spiritual depths to be plumbed

in the world of money. i think there are spiritual lessons to be learned in the world of money. i've certainly learned many. and i've certainly witnessed some incredibly inspiring acts with people and their money. i talk about a number of these on different occasions but for here i'd like to just focus on two. two aspects of money that i think give us some spiritual depth. the first of these is that money is really a mirror. it's a mirror to your inner life. if you examine your attitudes and your behavior around money, it will shed a light on your interior being. it will shed a light on your value system. it will shed a light on your greatest strengths and, unfortunately, also your weaknesses. it simply reveals your inner self. the truth is that all of our internal dramas

play out on the stage of money. for good or for ill. money is really, i believe, a mirror into your soul. and that may sound a little scary. you may think, i'm not so sure i want to have a look at my soul. but there's also, i think, another side to this. and that is the second of the lessons. and that is that money, it may be a mirror into your soul, but it's also a bridge from your soul. money is a mechanism, a tool, for self-expression. and it is a tool for the expression of some of your highest values, your most inspiring beliefs, your greatest strengths, and, unfortunately, it can also express your weaknesses, but money can be the tool you use to work on those weaknesses. it's simply a bridge. a bridge from your soul to your outward material life. it's the very tool you can use to express yourself, your very best self, out in the world. in order for this to happen, however,

in order for it to serve this role in your life, you have to see it as a tool -- no more, no less. and we'll talk about that a little bit more. i hope that you're thinking now about what money type you are, and about your relationship to money. in the next segment, i'll talk with you a bit about your relationship to your money and the ways in which that relationship may be enhancing your life or actually wreaking havoc in your life. so please stay with us. thank you. and oftentimes, we try to separate those concepts." well, perhaps we are broadening your horizons once again on this public television station. and that is what we try to do all of the time. we've given you a lot of important information about finance, but this is a brand-new insight into the way that you think about finance. your fears and the way we can overcome them,

and your personality in relation to your money. hi, i'm larry rifkin, joined by lee newton. susan mccarthy herself will join us in just a moment, so please stand by. and we have wonderful thank-you gifts to encourage you to go deeper into the content that you're seeing on this program. now, susan, thank you so much for being with us. oh, it's my pleasure. i'm happy to be here. and the idea of the emotion of money -- how did you arrive at this? because most people talk about, you know, the basic information -- they talk about all the numbers related to money, but not the emotion. not the emotion so much, and yet, in all these years that i have worked with people and their money, i've observed how tightly linked money and emotion really are, for everyone. and yet, a lot of people try to divorce that. and as you remind us, we have different money types, and those money types tell us a lot about ourselves. they tell us a lot about ourselves. the money type is how you relate to your money, your attitude towards your money, your behavior around your money. and they tell us a lot about ourselves,

but also, they help us to be better financial decision-makers, if we can understand these types. and you know, i know you've got a lot of financial information at your fingertips. some of it is irrelevant the month it comes out, the day it comes out -- a lot of cycles of news and information. but this is a grounding, this is foundational, and this is what you come to public television for -- something that offers an entire new insight as you frame all of your important financial decisions. and let's look at it this way -- a lot of people are in the midst of a lot of changes in their life. and let's say i was going to take a risk about my job, and say i really need a new job, but i don't have another one but i've got to get out of the situation i'm in. but knowing your financial type and your level of comfort with risk would be very important before making a decision like that. gosh, i would think it'd be very important because if you're in that kind of a situation, then you really want to take a look and make sure that you can make this change financially. and then as you observe your attitude towards your money

when you're in a situation of risk, kind of a tumultuous situation, you're going to understand yourself a lot better, and maybe some other aspects of the decision. okay, well, there is so much more information to come with susan and, of course, talking about the fact that, a lot of the times that we're making very important financial decisions are in the midst of emotional crisis. so we'll be talking about all of that and sharing with you the opportunity to get so much more information as you become a member of this public television station, the place where you've always found reliable and thoughtful and insightful information about finance and so many other affairs of life. so, please, go to your telephone right now. lee. that's right -- go the phone right now. become a member here at this public television station, because we are constantly bringing you new voices, like susan mccarthy, the newest voices that are bringing you information on self-improvement, on finance, even new voices in music. so often, public television is the place to turn,

and so why not support that with a membership right now? call the number on your screen. we have wonderful ways to thank you when you become a member around this program, "the emotion of money." for a $125 pledge, we have a great combo package. you will get susan's book, "the value of money," which is a wonderful tome that looks at, of course, all the issues that she talks about in this program, but goes much deeper, into divorce, retirement, the loss of a loved one, supporting an elderly parent. all these issues are in the book. and you will receive the dvd of the program that you're watching. and this actually contains additional material that you won't see in the broadcast today. so this is a great item for you to choose for a $125 pledge. now, if you'd like just the book alone, "the value of money," make a $90 pledge; and just the dvd, make that $60 pledge right now. of course, you can join us at any level that you're comfortable. put a dollar amount on the value

of public television in your life right now. do it today. and now, we're going to go back to a little more conversation with larry rifkin and susan mccarthy. you're investing your time now in public television -- we thank you for that. but how about making certain that we have the resources to consistently bring you this quality programming as you're seeing with "the emotion of money." and i've got to ask you, susan, i mean, as you watched public television over the years, you've seen many different programs that have spoken to an issue related to finance. what do you feel this program offers that perhaps others have not? well, i think that this angle on money, the emotional angle on money, is very, very valuable. i think it's more important now than ever before, because we're all in this situation of this massive transfer of wealth in the united states. and i think it is a very personal area that you might want to take a look at, because these are enduring issues when it comes to your money. absolutely, and most times,

when you talk to a financial advisor, they will ask you, are you more conservative in your feelings, or more aggressive? but that's about the only thing i've ever been asked -- i have not been asked to really sit down and think about the way i really look at money. because it is, as you say, the currency that runs through our entire life and expresses a lot about ourselves. oh, it really does. i like to ask people, for example, what's your greatest fear about this money situation? or what's been your most exciting experience with money, what's been your worst experience with money? these are very telling. speaking of types, how much should we know about any spouse or anyone we're involved with, oftentimes, related to money? how much should we know about them? oh, gosh, well, we know that money is a principal problem. inside marriages where there are problems, money can often be the cause. so i think it should be something that couples think about before they marry. because chances are you're going to have a different attitude towards your money than your spouse does.

oh, absolutely. well, please, i have no different attitude about the value of public television in your life. if you are watching now, that is because we are extending the value of the program, having susan here with us. we'll be going back to the content of the program in just a moment, but it is so important that we hear from you. and we have wonderful ways to thank you. and we'll start off with the book itself, which is called "the value of money," but this is where a lot of these ideas have been extracted. and it uncovers the hidden wisdom of money. you can overcome your financial fears, discover your unique money type, and susan gets into all of those very important life changes that go on, where money is always a part of the equation, you can never separate one from the other. whether it's a marriage, a separation, a divorce. whether it's going to college, whether it's the loss of a spouse -- all of this will be contained in the book. we also have available to you the dvd, with extra material, and we can put them in combination for you. so please go to your telephone right now, become a member of this public television station,

and learn about your emotional iq as it relates to money, only on public television. thank you. and we talk a lot about membership here in public television, but sometimes we forget that not everyone knows exactly what we're talking about. and i just want to tell you that when you become a member, when you call the number on your screen, you join the station, you are supporting great programs like this one, "the emotion of money." you're helping to pay for them and you're a partner here at this station. it is such an important thing to do. if public television and this channel is a station that you turn to, that you rely on, that your children rely on, and that you love to watch and learn from, then support it right now. that's how we do it, without commercials. so we're asking you to do your part right now, especially around "the emotion of money," featuring susan mccarthy. you can join us at any level that you choose -- it could be $40, $50, $60 -- but if you can join us at the $125 level, we have a special combination thank-you gift to send you.

you will get susan's book, "the value of money," as well as the dvd of the program that you're watching, "the emotion of money." these items are wonderful. the dvd has additional material that you won't even see in the broadcast today. with the audience,l questiso it's a great thing to see, and probably a question that you have will be answered. and you'll get her book, "the value of money," that goes much more in-depth to the issues that she talks about in the program. if you like just the book alone, make a $90 pledge and we will send that to you. and for a $60 pledge, you can receive the dvd alone. but by all means, if you have been moved by this program, you've learned something about yourself, perhaps it has explained something about your marriage, about your relationship to siblings, your parents, you have learned your personality money type, go to the phone right now, make a pledge for it and do it today, because this station is here for you, bringing you wonderful programs,

but we can only do it with your financial support. so it's so important that you get involved right now. thanks so much. this is another one of those valuable self-assessment programs to let you know where you are in this game of life that we're all in the midst of and whether, in fact, we all have it together. and i've got to tell you that money is one of the most difficult things for so many of us to manage. and that's why i think this program is so important, because it says look at yourself in a different manner. before you make specific individual decisions about money, go back, step back, and take an analysis of who you really are in relation to your money. and i think that, if you do that, then, i think you will find some of those financial decisions a lot easier to make. they're not necessarily that complicated. and as you remind us, a lot of those decisions are made against the backdrop of so much confusion and tumult in our lives. well, it's true -- the times when we think about money the most

tend to be the times when we're in some sort of emotionally charged situation, like a retirement, like a divorce, like the death of someone in the family. so those are times when our emotions and our money are going to be the most tangled. and susan's going to be talking a lot more about that in the next segment, coming up. but while you have the opportunity, go to your telephone right now. we have the book, "the value of money." we've also got the dvd, with extra material -- people just like you asking susan questions about their emotional relationship to money. and then we can combine the two and give you a package you will continue to refer to. we're going back to the program, hopefully with you as a member -- thank you. thank you. thank you so much. thank you. well, in the first segment, we talked a bit about our emotional relationships to money and the great promise for peace and abundance that there is in examining that relationship and identifying your money type.

so, what i would like to do in this segment is to talk to you a bit about, how do you begin to sort out what your particular style is? it may seem a little bit vague to you, but actually it's very simple, because the normal flow of money in our lives provides a flow of money, first of all, and then it provides a set of money decisions, a flow of money decisions. and then with them, all of the emotions that come along. all the emotions that come with our money situations. when is it that you think hardest about money? if you think of a time when you really had to think about your money, when was it? were you in the midst of some kind of a change, a live event, a transition in your life? most often, that's when people come to my door, is when they're trying to understand the financial ramifications of some kind of change in their life. think about it for a second.

marriage has some big financial ramifications, does it not? divorce -- gigantic financial ramifications and very, very emotional. taking over the care of an elderly family member, an awesome responsibility. we don't often think about the financial side of the responsibility, but there is a big financial side. sending your kids off to college. pretty financial and very emotional. these are the major life events, the major transitions in our life. well, there are times when emotions run very, very high. and at the same time, sometimes, some of these situations, the financial decisions that we're making have very significant ramifications. the truth is that you may be making some of the largest, most important financial decisions of your life in the midst of some of the most powerful emotions that you feel in your life. now, some of these decisions can have very, very long-term effects, and so it's very important

to consider the emotional side. we all encounter some of these events at some point in our life, and most of us encounter most of these life events. i believe these are extraordinarily special times, when you're in one of those life transitions. it's an opportunity to observe yourself in relationship to your money, if you're willing to do it. because sometimes it's not too easy. but it's an opportunity to observe your emotions. it's also an opportunity to observe your motivations, which isn't always the easiest thing to do. and even better than that, i think it's a great opportunity to observe your knee-jerk reactions. now, think for a second -- if you were to discover right now that you had a windfall coming. maybe you won the lottery or you're about to inherit a bunch of money. what's your first instinct? in your gut, what's your first instinct? is it to get the coffee can and shovel that money in and put it in the back yard? is it to hide it from everyone

so that no one knows you have it? or is it to go out and buy the most expensive car you can find? that knee-jerk reaction is going to tell you a lot about yourself. these life transitions, these special moments, are also opportunities to cultivate a different attitude, if you don't like what you see when you observe yourself in relationship to your money. they're opportunities to experiment with your money, not necessarily in how you're going to spend it, but in how you think about it, how you behave around it. these are golden opportunities. let's take a prime example. let's take one of these life transitions and talk about some of the emotions and the decisions that have to be made. let's talk about retirement. i like to talk about retirement because, here come the baby-boomers, here we come. and, you know, we like to think that we change society no matter what we do, so we probably think we'll change retirement as well. retirement is a very important transition for people,

and it's highly emotional. we all fantasize about retirement. i'll bet some of you have fantasized about what you'll do in retirement, going to golf every day, going to see the world. going to build a shop behind your house and start a new business -- whatever it is. we all dream about what we will do in retirement. but my experience is -- and i've worked with many people as they make this transition into retirement -- the closer we get to it, the more frightened we become. and i think that it's actually a somewhat unexpected fear. we don't really see it coming, because we fantasize so much and look forward to it so much. and yet think about what happens when you retire. first of all, it's a major change in your routine. whereas your whole day might have been structured around work, now there is no structure. you get to do anything you want in the course of a day. it's also a complete change in how you use your time. and it's a big change in your social situation. people say all the time, "gee, i wish i weren't leaving

because i'm going to miss my friends." most of us have some kind of social network at our workplace. and so we begin to get nervous about what's going to happen. lots of questions start coming up. the first question is usually a money question. "do i have enough money?" but the second question is often, "what exactly am i going to do with myself when i have all the time to myself?" a very interesting question that comes up over and over is between spouses. what's it going to be like with both of you in the house? if you've been a homemaker and you've been running the house and your husband's been out working, and all of the sudden, he says, "gosh, honey, isn't this great? i'll be home with you"... [ laughter ] many a homemaker has gotten a part-time job right at that point. and then there's that financial question again -- am i going to have enough money? that comes up over and over again, of course. now, some of these questions can only be answered

in your own heart and within your own family and talking with the people you love. but the financial questions are not hard to answer at all. a good advisor can walk you through all of these financial questions -- do i have enough? how long is my money going to last? how much am i going to need to live on? et cetera. those are actually rather simple questions to answer. an advisor can help you with that. the other questions sometimes are a little bit more difficult. so here's the crux of the matter when you're thinking about a transition like retirement and your money. the crux of the matter really is that your entire relationship to money is about to change. you might have had a job where you received a monthly check, a bimonthly check, a weekly check, whatever it was. well, now you have to replicate that. you may be able to do that with a pension, social security, whatever it is, but it may not be like that, and that often becomes a big issue for people, is they want the security of a regular paycheck.

many people have their money in a 401(k) or a 403(b) and choose at retirement -- not everyone, but many people choose to take it out and roll it over into an ira. this now becomes your responsibility, this ira. you have to make all the decisions on it, you have to direct it, and you live or die by the decisions that you make. in fact, the decisions are very important that you make. they may not be hard, but they're very important. of course, it's emotional. how could it be anything but emotional when you're in the midst of this major, major change in your work life? and sometimes we can be blinded by our emotions, and the ramifications of that can be very significant. so i'd like to tell you another story, if i could, about a very, very successful woman whose name was sylvia. and i worked with sylvia for many years. she was a brilliant businessperson, very successful. she worked for a company that was a publicly traded company. you know, they had stock on the new york stock exchange.

big company. and she rose and rose through the ranks of this company. she was a very, very decisive person. she knew exactly how much she had to retire on, and we were going to begin to design a strategy for the investment of her money. we had a great conversation about retirement. she was very excited, she was very happy about retiring. so she pulled out a spreadsheet that showed all of her assets. well, i recognized immediately a very common problem, especially for people who work for publicly traded companies, in that sylvia had a great deal of her money tied up in the stock of her own company. this is a very common problem, especially for executives. it wasn't that the stock was not a good stock. it was a very good stock. the problem was that she had too many eggs in one basket. she simply had too much of her money in one thing, and that tilted her portfolio to the very aggressive. so i, of course, being the responsible advisor that i am, i recommended that we consider selling a portion of this stock.

sylvia was appalled. the idea of selling this stock was out of the question. she had given her entire life to this company, he working life, she'd been there 40 years. she'd been very, very successful. that company had been very good to her. in large measure, her wealth came as a result of her work with this company. the idea of selling that stock was a form of betrayal. she would not hear of it. the only thing that i could do was to recommend that we diversify as much as we could with the other money that she had, in an effort to broaden her portfolio a bit. now, i bet you know where i'm going with this story. things went fine for a while. it was an excellent stock. the market held well, the stock held well. but then the company lost a key executive. he took some people with him. the company started to lose its way, briefly. the stock began to go down.

and then we went into a bear market when all stock values went down. there was nothing out there to hold that stock value up. and it dropped like a rock. it went down by 50%, as did the largest portion of her portfolio. it wasn't the end of the world. she did have other money, she had enough money to live on, but she could have been so much more secure had her almost blind attachment to this company and loyalty and emotion about this company not translated to her money. had she been able to evaluate her situation a little bit more rationally. sylvia was a money martyr. all the decisions that we make at junctures like this can be very, very important. and it's likely that they're going to be made in the midst of some of the biggest changes in your life, some of the biggest emotion in your life. and a lot of that emotion could be fear, could be excitement,

could be everything combined. so how exactly do you approach something like retirement and sort all of this out? well, i think that you do it in stages and steps. and hopefully, if you're talking about retirement, you're getting after this well before the retirement is actually upon you. we like to see people start pretty early on this. but the first step is that you acknowledge the emotions that you have, really think about them. retirement oftentimes makes people fearful, anxious, excited, but sometimes also pretty angry. people have all kinds of emotions around retirement. some of those emotions will need to be accommodated when it comes to your money, some of them won't. but some of those emotions will need to be accommodated as youesign a portfolio. the second step is to isolate the emotions that do pertain to your money. let me give you an example. let's say, for example, you're about to retire,

and you realize, as you think about it, that the highest priority you have, the greatest fear that you have, is that you want to conserve what you have, you don't want to lose any money. you don't really care if you make more. you just really don't want to lose what you already have. that's a fear that can be very easily accommodated in an investment strategy. what if, on the other hand, though, you don't need the money that you have and so you say, "i'd just like to let it grow. i'd like to leave some for my children." we can accommodate that in an investment strategy as well. so... the next step then is to think about the emotions in relationship to the money. then you get to the fun part -- the next step is just to think about what it is that you really want to do in retirement. i'm not speaking here of the things you're already doing, but some different things that you would like to do. new activities, new routines. new ventures -- whether it's travel or a business or a wonderful vacation

or a home project or whatever it is. think about the things that you really would like to do and then think about your money again, how much is it going to cost? what kind of money do you have to put to these projects? put a pencil to paper and put a money amount to it. then the next step is to take a look, really get down to the nitty-gritty and take a look at your sources of income. and here we ask people -- i generally recommend to people to look at your sources of income and ignore for a moment any kind of investment portfolio. in other words, if you take money out of a 401(k) or a 403(b) or any kind of retirement plan, you roll it over into an ira, that's money that's available to be invested and to produce income for you. but as you're thinking about your sources of income, i like to encourage people to leave that money aside and just look at other sources of income. pension, social security, rental property, part-time work, whatever it is -- your other sources of income.

so you already know how much you need to live on, of course. that's an easy one because you've been living on it. you know how much extra money you will need for these extra activities. you know what you owe. i believe i forgot to mention that. you definitely need to know how much you owe, and now you see if there's any kind of a shortfall. if there is, then that investment portfolio needs to step up and produce it, and it's also very easy to see whether or not it's big enough to produce what you need. and therein you have the answer to your question, "can i afford to retire?" it's very simple to determine at that point if you can afford to retire. this is one major transition, is retirement, but there are several other transitions as well, and they all are similar in that we can evaluate both our emotions and the financial side. think about a death in the family, for example. in the midst of grief or sorrow, anger, maybe relief, whatever you're feeling when there's been a death, you may be called upon to completely revamp

your financial situation. especially if it's been your spouse who's passed away. on the other hand, you may be looking at an inheritance, a windfall, with a completely different set of emotions. take, for example, the situation of marriage. joy, hope, promise -- all kinds of wonderful emotions. but the very real task of combining what could be two radically different money types into one household. and we know that money is one of the majoin marriages.conflict what if you're taking over the care of an elderly family member? this is an awesome responsibility. most of us think about this in terms of our concerns for our parent, for example, some fear, there's always sorrow. and there's usually some confusion, because it's hard to know what's best. but at the same time, part of the responsibility when you're dealing with an elderly family member is to take over the management of their money.

and this is a tremendous responsibility. i believe that of all of the situations that we encounter, this is one of the most serious, because the beneficiary of our actions is never as vulnerable as in that situation when we're taking over for the elderly. and it may be your mother and your father. there's always a lot of emotion involved in handling things for your mother or your father with all the history that you have. in all of these situations, your money will be speaking for you. in every one of these situations, your money is out there in the world, speaking for you about who you are, what your character is, what your values are, and in these situations that are these transitions, it will speak more loudly than at any other time. so now i have a question for you. if the only way that people could judge who you are, what your character is, what you stood for here in this life

was by what you did with your money, what would they think about you? what kind of legacy are you leaving here on this earth? i'll be right back. a very provocative lequestion.th that at the end of your life, if the only thing left written about you was your legacy in the way you handled money, what would it say about you? now, we'll leave most of that answer to the next part of the program, but that is a very, very interesting way of looking at the way you handle money. well, i think that it is, larry. and the truth is that your money is always talking for you, whether you want it to or not, whether you're aware of it or not. and so what is your money saying about you? it's really worth taking a look at. well, you make a very profound statement when you support this public television station. lee newton is with me. i'm larry rifkin. and we are here to encourage you, along with susan mccarthy, to go to your telephone

and make your pledge of support. because this is a unique window into the world of money and the way that you look at it and the way that you can value it during those very, very critical moments in your life. so please go to your telephone right now. we have wonderful ways of extending the value of this program so that you can get greater insights into the way that you handle money. and, of course, we have the dvd of the program, which is available to you at the level of $60 or more as your gift to this public television station. and that dvd has additional material beyond what you're going to see in this broadcast. at the level of $90, we have "the value of money." you can uncover the hidden wisdom of money. great chapters on how you can look at money during those critical times in your life cycle and the way that you can relate to it in a very, very important way so that, again, you can make the right decisions about your money. if you'd like to combine the dvd and the book --

maybe for you, maybe for a friend -- somebody who has a difficult time managing money, then go to your telephone with the level of $125 in your mind and make your pledge to this station. now, susan, the beatles said, "can't buy me love, money can't buy me love." and that's true, but it certainly is a part of our life during, as you point out, very important periods -- whether it's your marriage, your divorce, all of those important milestones in our life. those are the times when we tend to think the hardest about our money, is when we're in the midst of some kind of a life event, some kind of a change. and oftentimes, those are highly emotionally charged. so money and emotion go hand-in-hand. money can't buy you love, larry, but you can use your money to express it. okay, that's a very important point, and you get into that a lot as we go forward, about the legacy that we all leave. now, when we think about leaving money as a rational decision only and trying to divorce it from all of our emotions, that's kind of foolish, isn't it? well, i don't know that i'd say that it's foolish, but i'd say it's awfully hard. because the truth is, your emotions are

always going to be tangled up with your money, so why not take a look at what your emotions are and accommodate them if they need to be accommodated? absolutely, and that is why this program is so important, and all of the thank-you gifts associated with it, because it helps you to analyze your money type and the way that you do look at money. so please go to your telephone right now and make your pledge of support. lee. and we certainly urge you to go to the phone right now, dial the number on your screen, and become a member, because your support, your pledge, makes programs like this happen. and susan has such fascinating insights into our relationship to money -- and, of course, anyone can benefit from it, but i think that her message has particular interest to the baby boomers, because the baby boomers, right now, are caught between caring for elderly parents and sometimes also looking after financially needy adult children and also contemplating retirement. so if you relate to her message, perhaps you're a baby boomer or you know one -- and who doesn't?

go to the phone right now, because she certainly has such great information for you, and there are great ways that you can get involved. now, you can become a member, you can join us at any level that you choose -- it could be $40, $50, $60, make up a level of your own -- but for a $125 pledge, we have a great way to say thank you to you. you will get the dvd of the program that you're watching and the book, her new book, "the value of money." and the dvd of the program that you're watching actually has more additional footage that you won't see. if you'd like just the book alone, make a $90 pledge. if you'd like just that dvd, to go back and see it again, make a $60 pledge, but by all means, grab your credit card, come over to the phone, and tell us that this is the kind of programming that you want to see on this station. we can't do it without your support. and now, let's go back to larry and susan. we're talking a lot about legacies. is your legacy one of enjoying a lifetime of rich programming about financial matters and all matters

about yourself on this public television station, but only giving spotty support? well, you can change that by making a determination that you are going to put your money where you find value on television. and if it is public television and this program with susan mccarthy, then do your part right now. as lee said, we have wonderful thank-you gifts associated with it that you're going to want to refer to. i know, in the book, as well as in the program, you talk a lot about retirement, and that is a point of incredible change in one's life, not only financially, but the way we think about ourselves, but they go hand-in-hand. oh, they do -- retirement is a huge transition for everyone, and the truth is, as far as your money goes, it's a time when your entire relationship to your money changes. most people look forward to retirement and they get excited, but it's also true that they get pretty nervous. and, of course, accommodating all these different changes -- for example, as you point out, talking to a spouse or talking to someone else who may be disabled, and you are going to

take over their money -- it may be a parent. that is a very tumultuous time, and one of the hardest decisions and things one can do. that's one of the transitions that i talk about in the book, and i think it's a very serious one, where we take over for our elderly parents or some elderly member of the family. it's an awesome responsibility on every level, but on the financial level as well. these are very important issues, these are issues that are little-addressed in our society, in our culture, and yet, susan has really taken the time to think about these issues, to categorize the various types of people and the way that we associate with money. and it is something that we are dealing with every day of our lives, whether we recognize it or not. and we have very little formal education about it. that is why the education that you're getting about it on public television is so unique and so important to support. now, we have the dvd of the program, with extra material, available to you at the level of $60 or more. and you may want to roll back through this a couple of times to really gain these insights.

then we have the book, "the value of money," at the level of $90, and that includes uncovering the hidden wisdom of money. because there is so much about your legacy, so much about what you are going to leave behind to the next generation, as it relates to the way that you handle your money, and there'll be a lot more about that in the next segment. but you can discover your unique money type, make better choices, and achieve greater wealth, some very specific information in the book as well. so we can give you the book, we can give you the tape, and make you a member of this public television station in combination at the level of $125 or more. so please do your part. we'll be going back to susan in just a moment on this station, but most importantly, get to the telephone right now. new concepts, important ones for you to support. thank you. and larry brings up a very important point, which is that personal finance so often is not something that we ever learn in school. it's not something that we take classes on.

hopefully, things are changing now, but for most of us, this is not something we learned about. we didn't know what our personality money type was, and that is why susan mccarthy, her insights here on this station are so important, because this is truly a station for lifelong learning. so for the things that perhaps you missed in school, you can continue to learn right here with us, and we want to be your classroom to help you improve your life, improve your relationships, improve your finance. we can do that with your help. but, of course, we are a nonprofit station. we do everything through the community and through members just like you, so we're asking you to be a member right now. now, you can join us