>> you are watching "the journal." our top stories. libyan rebels offer a ceasefire as gaddafi's forces increase their attacks. >> a nuclear standoff. the german utility goes to court to challenge a government order to shut down its oldest nuclear plant. >> westerwelle is in the hot seat after his party's massive defeat in state elections. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--

>> libyan rebels are increasingly on the defensive as they attempt to reinforce positions. their leadership set out conditions for a ceasefire saying they will stop fighting if the gaddafi forces moved back from rebel-held areas. on friday night, the libyan government rejected the terms. on the ground, the fighting continues. >> it resembles a ghost town. on the streets, the aftermath of the trading. the rebels had captured the city. it seems fairly devoid of life. the roads are into. the shops are closed. many residents have fled. >> we were working in the city. now it is no hope or food. it is demolished. we cannot stay. >> the cities changed hands

almost daily. fierce fighting continues. the rebels say misrata is hardly recognizable after days of massive artillery bombardment. civilians continue to fall victim to the fighting. in meetings with u.n. representatives, rebel leaders have proposed a cease-fire but only under certain conditions. they command that gaddafi must leave the country and lift the siege on rebel-held cities. >> gaddafi's troops are not upholding the decisions made by the u.n. security council. they continued to target and kill civilians. they're not willing to allow the libyan people their right to express their opinions freely. >> the air strikes have weakened gaddafi. but with the bulk of his military still in tact and superior firepower, he remains defiant. allemande -- outmanned, rebels

are pleading with the west for additional forces. >> we announced our correspondent to give us an update on misrata. >> ross -- misrata has been under siege for weeks. over the last few days, the foreign media has been allowed to enter. they have seen a gestation, human suffering. the rebels are trying to keep hold of the city. >> what about the situation where you are in tripoli? we have had reports of sustained gunfire near gaddafi's compound. >> in the early hours of this morning -- now the scene is very normal. people are out shopping.

it feels completely relaxed. we do not know what the cause was for the gunfire. many people are out for the moment. it may be political triggers that set off the damn car. >> all signs seem to be that the rebels are losing ground. are we approaching a stalemate? >> it does look like that. they will need to have more key defections or something significant happen. the rebels have been unable to defeat gaddafi's forces begun to done. the gaddafi forces have been unable to get in because of the international action. >> deborah haynes, thank you.

protesters threw stones at police who responded with tear gas and gunfire. they're blaming the deaths on armed groups who they say fired on protesters and security forces. amateur video is said to show rights across syria. there are signs the government has acknowledge the pro-reform demonstrations. it says the situation is calm. anti-government protests continued in yemen. thousands turned out in the capital for another demonstration to call for the immediate resignation of president saleh. he is refusing to step down. at a rival. as government demonstration, his supporters said he would sacrifice his blood for the people. we will have more on the unrest in the arab world later on in this half hour. the u.n., u.s., and france have

demanded that the longtime ivory coast leader relinquish power. fierce fighting continues near his headquarters. fierce fighting was reported around the television station. military leaders have called on his forces to surrender. 50,000 have reportedly defected. he vows to fight until the end. the u.n. has condemned what it calls a cowardly attack on u.n. compound in northern afghanistan. at least seven u.n. workers have been confirmed dead after an angry mob stormed the compound. five rioters were reported killed along with dozens injured. they took to the streets to protest the burning of a koran by u.s. pastor. others say it was instituted as a cover for the attack. an intensive operation has been

launched to recover the bodies of those killed in the earthquake and tsunami in japan. a total of 24,000 military personnel will be using aircraft and naval vessels. the search comes as the government is reporting radiation from the nuclear plant has been found in ground water. >> it is another attempt to regain control of the fukushima plant. the ships delivered fresh water to be sprayed on the reactors with giant pumps. the situation remains serious. officials now admit that the skeleton crew of emergency workers have only limited access to measurement devices to determine how much radiation they have been exposed to. the plant operator is coming under heavy criticism for its handling of the disaster. it now confirms that the computer monitoring radiation levels is not working properly. that further adds to the confusion. the company confirms a measured

reactivity in ground water believe -- beneath the plant at 10,000 times more than normal. those figures are called into question. the japanese prime minister will be making his first visit to the area in an effort to boost spirits. but we cannot say whether the situation at fukushima has stabilized. we will be victorious in this battle. we are doing our very best. >> the thousands evacuated from the security zone are now wondering if they will ever be allowed to return home. experts believe could be decades before the area is safe. >> rwe is not happy about the government shutting down their plant. >> japan is casting a long shower over nuclear power. shares rose on friday following news it has launched a legal challenge against a government order to shut down one of the

lucrative but aging nuclear power plants it operates. in reaction to the nuclear crisis in japan, the german government has imposed a three- month closure on the seven oldest atomic plants in the country. it has also indicated they may never be reopened. rwe argues that since the plant comply with all safety requirements, there are no legal grounds for decommissioning fund. legal scholars agree. >> rwe says keeping the reactor offline is costing it 700,000 euros a day. the utility argues the disaster in japan has not made plants in germany any less safe than before. they say they do comply with german safety standards. legal experts take a similar position. >> you cannot require a higher safety standards at power plants if there is no change to the law.

you would have to change the laws. >> the environment ministry has said it will block any attempt by rwe to restart the plant. of the four nuclear power plants in germany, only rwe is challenging the order. the company's largest utility has said it will not follow suit. -- the country's largest utility and said it will not follow suit. others are not expected to do so either. >> the company that runs the new york stock exchange has received another takeover offer. in february, the bid was placed for nyse. nasdaq and ice teamed up to place a rival bid. they're offering a 19% premium. >> if the bid by the two companies winds, authorities will not have to face the contentious issue of having a foreign company owning the

venerable new york stock exchange, the icon of wall street. other issues will arise. together, they would have a dominant position on the u.s. market. the new bid is worth a total of $11.3 billion. that includes a sizable chunk of cash. it is expected to lead to $74 billion in annual savings. it sent stocks soaring on friday trading. the bid is almost 20% higher than the february offer. deal was meant to be completed by the end of the year. the planning is said to be far advanced. the german dream of becoming no. 1 in the world may be forced to. >> a trans-atlantic takeover battle could be in the offing. here is the reaction from the frankfurt stock exchange. >> the nasdaq is going to

compete for the new york stock exchange against the deutsche. it cannot afford to lose again in a merger takeover battle. when you look at the numbers, experts say the deutsche it cannot afford to pay more than nasdaq. it would not be lucrative anymore. financially, it can afford to spend because it burns good money with it's unique business model. many in frankfurt would be glad if it were not dependent upon an american partner. >> we can stay in frankfurt for a closer look at friday's closing numbers. the eurostoxx index also rallied in the week at to thousand 962.

the dow traded higher this friday in response to better than expected employment data. it racked up at the top of the hour finishing higher. the hero is trading at $1.42. the ratings agency fitch has slashed its ratings on portugal's government debt by three notches to the verge of junk status. it was announced that fresh elections would only take place in portugal on june 5. by law, the current caretaker government lacks the authority to accept the bailout. fitch has lowered the rating to triple b- one day after it says it missed its goal. it had to revise numbers further

weakening its fiscal profile. >> the german foreign minister guido westerwelle is in china in an effort to improve relations between the countries. the free democratic party is looking increasingly precarious. westerwelle is under pressure after the disastrous showing in regional elections last weekend. >> the foreign minister was in china discussing human rights and nuclear policy. in the german capital, the calls are growing louder for him to resign as leader of the free democrat party. the parliamentary party leader is among the most vocal critics. other members of the party executive predict there is likely to be an open battle for power at the upcoming conference in may. >> there are concrete steps within the party for a candidate to challenge westerwelle if he does not offer

to step down. >> there has been no public statement to that effect from the two most likely candidates. the current health minister has come under criticism for his abrupt change on nuclear energy. >> it is always best not to change tack. people are not going to think they are suddenly against nuclear power. they get confused and we lose credibility. >> he is likely to face unpleasant questions about, the next meeting of the party executive on monday. >> westerwelle's itinerary in beijing included a major exhibition of artworks. he said the enlightenment was anything but non-political. the artworks reflect human

rights ideas. the displays feature paintings and sculptures as well as fashion items and a scientific instruments. up to 5000 visitors are expected each day at the newly refurbished chinese museum. a week of heavy rains and flooding in thailand have caused deaths. emergency crews say access to villages is difficult because of the damage to roads and bridges. military helicopters have been brought in to deliver supplies. forecasters say the worst of the rainfall appears to be over now. he was the most famous and beloved president of the berlin zoo. experts have determined what caused the sudden death of knut the polar bear. he was the first polar bear born at the zoo in over three decades. he drowned after falling into a pool in his enclosure. tests revealed there was swelling in his brain, likely

due to infection. that caused him to collapse. you are watching the "journal." we will be right back. ♪ >> how will we live in the future? how will we communicate? how will we treat diseases? leading scientists are looking for answers to the pressing issues of the future. innovation is shaping tomorrow. it is our series on "tomorrow today" on dw-tv and the internet. >> can a dream become an unforgettable experience? and hospitality reached new heights? can we celebrate a winter fairy

tale together? we can make it happen. let's bring the winter olympics to germany. that is what munich 2018 can do. >> welcome back. have bullets stopped the pressing for freedom in the arab world? old regime's desperately attempt to hold on to power through brute force. in the bill, a civil war is unfolding. -- in libya, a civil war is unfolding. many are asking why nato is in libya if it is unprepared to be elsewhere in the region. in the arab world, people and governments are wondering what they can expect from the west and where the arab revolution is headed.

>> the wave of protests have spread throughout the middle east. it has put many our product leaders under pressure. -- many autocratic leaders under pressure. these leaders have all responded in the same way. eventually, violent suppression of the demonstrations. arab leaders appear to be playing for time. how much time do they have? in bahrain, the ruling family initially managed to suppress the demonstrations held by the majority shiite population with the help of powerful neighbors in the region. saudi arabia sent troops to the

tiny island and provided propaganda for its own to prevent a similar uprising in saudi arabia. in yemen, the president stays appeared to be numbered. he has offered to resign under his own conditions. the protests have attracted widespread support in yemen, including shiites, the military, and many young people. yemen is the poorest country in the arab world. it risks descending into chaos and civil war. that could play into the hands of al qaeda. the country is awash with weapons. al qaeda sees yemen as its spiritual home and is seen to be dangerous there. in syria, protests have been limited to a small number of countries in the south of -- to a small number of cities in the south of the country. the president has moved to contain them. his regime has relied on

suppression and spine to keep the population in check and to maintain the illusion of him as a popular people's president. assad has appointed a new cabinet and made a televised address. that created more anchor when he refused to lift the emergency laws of the country. >> the syrian government has established a committee to look into reforms. it says it will investigate reforms. announced in middle east expert -- i announced in middle east expert if that would be enough for now. -- i asked a middle east expert if that would be enough for now. >> he has not announced reform, but rather forming commissions that will discuss reforms. he is trying to gain time. he made it clear to the syrians that he has decided to fight for

his own survival. my estimate is that he will suppress every resistance in the country. >> after tunisia and egypt, there was the impression of a domino effect. that changed. where is the arab revolution heading? >> we do not know yet. the revolutions have been relatively easy in egypt and tunisia, partly because these regimes lacked any legitimacy. the problem here is that he has a certain popularity in the country. so many people are afraid of what might come after him. this has been the case in syria for decades. people are afraid of civil war. his foreign-policy is relatively

aggressive towards israel by sending hezbollah and hamas against the israelis has been popular in the country. i think his regime might be more stable than those of his colleagues in egypt and tunisia. the problem in yemen and syria is that if the regime still, a civil war might be the outcome. >> -- if these regimes fail, a civil war might be the outcome. it all depends on egypt. egyptian foreign policy will be more anti-is really in the future. i think the border to gaza will be opened in the future. the embargo will be in did -- stopped in the near future. egypt will be focused on domestic issues. i do not think the country will be a danger to israelis in the

foreseeable future. >> thank you. the people in gaza are yearning for freedom. earlier this month, the arab revolution was echoed in the palestinian territories in the form of rallies calling for an end to the division between hamas and fatah. even organizing that in the gaza strip proved especially challenging. >> these are tough times in gaza. he helped to organize a large demonstration calling for palestinian unity two weeks ago. it is a tricky issue. fatah and hamas are both jealously clinging to power. >> it all started on facebook. we realized you cannot bring people together through the virtual world. we took to the streets and drummed up support from different youth groups.

>> he and fellow students say the young people are fed up with the situation. they do not just face harassment from security forces, they feel hemmed in by the blockade and because hamas restricts young people. >> maybe if we go in the streets and start talking to other people about how we have a right to claim, we can make a difference if we go together. it did not work the way we wanted it to, but it was inspired by the arab movement. >> thousands took to the streets of gaza city in march. at the same time, there was another protest march. young activists are not prepared to give in to harassment. they were separated and beaten

by plainclothes security agents. she says she was one of those beaten. she does not want to give in to intimidation. she sees a future in gaza even if prospects are bleak. >> i do not have a job or future. i cannot get out of the country carri. i do not have anybody to turn to as an authority. you do not know exactly who is in authority. >> there is a feeling of dejection. a lot of young people feel this way. >> our situation is difficult. it is the israeli occupation and political division. there are so many problems. if you think about the future, there is no future to plan for. we feel discouraged and disappointed. >> the streets of gaza have been calm since the major demonstrations. many cents the tension in the air. the successful revolutions in egypt and tunisia have become a

symbol that sticks in people's minds. >> you are watching dw-tv. please stay with us. > ♪

>> hinojosa: latino political power is on the rise, but will latinos decide the presidential election? the country's leading authority on latino electoral politics, antonio gonzalez. i'm maria hinojosa. this one on one. >> hinojosa: antonio gonzalez, president of the southwest voter registration project, big mover and shaker in terms of latino politics across the country. yeah, you're smiling. >> thank you. >> hinojosa: it's true! will this year be the year, in

the presidential election, when there is no doubt that the latino vote, in fact, can carry, change, sway an election? >> well, this will be the biggest year ever for latino politics, this presidential cycle, but it won't be the first year when we've had big influence and have made a difference at a number of levels across the country. we project that we'll have about 12 million latino voters registered, and about ten million of them will cast votes. and they'll be a weighty impact. you know how presidential elections work. you go with the... what's called the swing states, and those will be states that have lots of latinos this time. it hasn't always been true. but this time you see, you know, the one that you always hear about, florida, but also what are called the desert mountain states: new mexico, colorado, arizona, nevada. >> hinojosa: and a lot of these states-- one of the things that's changed now is that a lot of these states are moving their primaries up. >> right. >> hinojosa: so that can you say, when you say in terms of the biggest impact of latino voters this time around, is it

because of the fact that, with having these primaries moved up with large latino populations, that the latino vote will actually help to define who's going to be the nominee? >> certainly on the democratic side, and it helps shed light on issues that matter to latinos. usually we're shut out of the primaries because they're just not states where we play a lot historically. this will be different. you have florida early primary, nevada. it's what's called "tsunami tuesday," where a majority of all of the primary votes in america will be cast. that's february 5th, and that's you have california, illinois, arizona, colorado, new mexico. so it's going to be sort of fun. >> hinojosa: you've been doing this for a long time. >> i know. >> hinojosa: a long time, antonio. when you speak, in terms of the political influence that you wield, with predominantly southwest voters, but certainly on a national scale, i mean, has something changed where, when

you, you know, put out a policy paper or release information in terms of polling future voters, that you say "aha, i know it's different now; they're really listening," or are you still... >> well, it's been incremental. before 1996, we really were operating regionally. and we had influence and throw- weight, if you will, in places like texas and new mexico and florida, so on. after '96, i think a couple things happened. our vote grew even faster. we've been growing fast for 30 years now, but we grew even faster in the mid '90s and going forward. and a lot of the partisan analysts looked at the changing demographics in america. they said, "okay, our core vote is declining because of changing demographics, and where are the new votes coming from?" and their latino vote jumped out, and that trend has only deepened since the '96 election.

>> hinojosa: but there's a lot of kind of shooting in people's foot here or shooting in people's feet here, because when i met with the number two strategist for the bush reelection campaign in 2003, matthew dowd, he said, "look, not a day, not an hour, not a minute goes by when the republican party is not thinking about how to get the latino vote." they did well for this last... in 2004. >> comparatively, yeah. >> hinojosa: comparatively, they did well. but i have heard stories of latinos out, you know, indianapolis, one woman said to me, "if i know of a latino who votes republican, they will not be allowed in my store." so where do the republicans stand now, because of the whole immigration issue? >> well, the republicans are divided. the matthew dowd school said, "our white vote is getting older, and they're declining because of demographics, and we have to get either more out of the blacks or more out of the latinos." and so they crafted the latino strategy, but they also have a black strategy. and... but that means if you're

going to pick from those electorates, they have issues, and you have to address their issues. and for latinos, immigration is a... immigration reform, legalizing the undocumented, is a big issue. on the other hand, the matthew dowd camp doesn't represent the majority within republican voters or the republican leadership. and so there's a fight. there's a polarization. and at this point nationally, the anti-bushes, the anti-dowds who say, "don't orient to latinos, orient to the 'anti- immigrant' voter," is our path to success, sort of like what happened in california in the early 1990s when... >> hinojosa: prop. 187. >> prop. 187. pete wilson was behind in the polls-- incumbent governor pete wilson, republican, who was a moderate. and he said, "i'm going to lose to kathleen brown," jerry brown's sister, who was the democratic nominee. >> hinojosa: so he goes after... >> he says, "i got to go to the right, and i got to go anti- immigrant and support prop. 187," and he wins.

>> hinojosa: okay, but you also know-- and this i find fascinating-- that you have a lot of democrats out there that are more "anti-immigrant" than some republicans, on a local basis. so it's not as if the democratic party is necessarily producing the wave to say, "here we go, and this is... you know, we represent." >> well, there is a polarization in society that covers democrats, republicans, and independents. the country is trying to figure out how do we resolve this immigration dilemma? so it cuts, you know, both ways in both parties. but it's more predominant in the republican party, you know, because of the makeup of that party. and on the democratic side, it's there, like it was there in california in the early 1990s. i remember barbara boxer called for sending troops to the border, as did dianne feinstein in the early 1990s. >> hinojosa: right. >> and they switched. >> hinojosa: as did governor bill richardson. >> and then they switched. they switched because they said, "okay, who butters my bread within the democratic party?"

and in fact, latino voters are heavily concentrated there. and then in california, over the next several years, latinos added a million new voters and punished their enemies and rewarded their friends, and the state became a blue state. it wasn't always a blue state. it was a purple state. this phenomena we're seeing unfold in america now, it's like the california example writ large, where in '08 and in 2010 and probably through 2012, we're going to have these battles over the nature of america. are we going to stay true to our core values? are we going to stay true to the constitution? are we going to be an inclusive or an exclusive country? >> hinojosa: but i always wonder, for new latino voters, whether or not, you know, those big issues are really what motivates them. i mean, i'm thinking about the fact that, for example, when prop. 187 was happening in california, my mother and my sister in chicago decided to become citizens because of that. will the kind of anti-immigrant movement, the immigrant-rights

protests and such, will you really see a bump of new voters, you know, who are registered, who are saying, "we are..." i mean, really, are you expecting that this time around? >> a huge bump. >> hinojosa: huge bump? >> we're going to see a huge bump, not only for this election, but for this one and . >> hinojosa: so you don't believe that latino voters are feeling disempowered, apathetic, fearful of going to the polls in certain places? >> they're feeling passionate. hot issues, hot elections create passion among voters. and all the polls and the focus groups that we see show that latinos want to get involved in the system, not just about immigration reform. the war is a big issue. quality of education is a big issue. healthcare access is a big issue. so there's a lot of issues that motivate us. and you know, a generation ago, people would say, "well, i'm not going to vote because it doesn't make a difference or my vote doesn't count." today latino voters-- potential latino voters say, "i want my vote to count; i want to get

involved; i want to make a difference," because they realize that we're at a critical mass number where, you know, getting in means candidates that we like can win. it means issues that we care about can be successful. it means that we can defend ourselves. becoming a citizen and voting is a way of self-defense for your family's future. >> hinojosa: do you believe that when you had those immigrant protests, that that essentially was part of the message here? i mean, so many of them were carrying those signs. you saw them in l.a.-- you know, "today i march; tomorrow i vote." is it really about political empowerment and understanding, that you got to go to the polls, you've got to pull that lever, you know, in order to make a difference? >> i think that you can't go to a house... a latino household in america and have the question answered that voting doesn't matter. i think that people, if they can

vote, they want to vote. if they can't vote, they want their kids, friends, or relatives to vote for them. it's a very common phenomenon. "i can't vote, but my son or daughter can." "mi hijo si puede votar, and he's going to vote for me," right? that's a common phenomenon, which shows you that it's not just the immigrants becoming citizens that's going to comprise the big bump. it's going to be their kids, their grandkids. there's a sense in the community that it's time to make a difference, it's time to be counted, it's time to jump in. that's why we think we'll see the biggest increase in latino voting in recorded... since they started counting. >> hinojosa: okay, antonio, but you and i have talked a lot, and probably in every interview that i've done with you, it's always like, "okay, this time around, latinos really understand." i got to tell you, i was taking a cab in new york, dominican cab driver who immediately just started talking about how he wants to vote for hillary. he's not a citizen yet, wants to get his citizenship papers. and i thought, you know, this guy's a great spokesperson for hillary.

i said, "you know, you should go down to the hillary office and volunteer your efforts." and i thought, "i could just imagine if he walks in to the hillary campaign office, this black dominican with an accent, and says, 'i want to help,' that they would probably say, 'well, stand in line.'" you know, do they really get it? >> well, i mean, to your point, campaigns will take... when people come in to volunteer for campaigns, they put them to good work-- not only hillary's campaign, but any campaign will put them to work. campaigns love that. but deeper, delving deeper into the point, the job of campaigns is to win. so to the extent that latinos self-organize and self-motivate, we get a two-fer. we're helping whatever candidate we support be successful, on the one hand, and on the other hand, you know, success isn't just electing a presidential candidate. it's getting organized in your community to make a difference on public security or to fix

your schools or to pass a bond to, you know, build a hospital or to elect a candidate of your choice in a city council or a school board or congress. so a lot of times, we've had this conversation, and i'm always precise about this. there's never one election where it's the election. it's a continuum. we've broken every record that we ever established in successive presidential elections. every presidential election is better. we've never gone backwards since 1970... since 1980. we went backward in 1976, actually, from '72. so for me, it's a continuum. we're going to break all the records in 2008, compared to 2004 and before. we're going to break those records in 2012. >> hinojosa: okay, but somebody who is probably banking on all of these breaking records and latinos participating, governor bill richardson, the first latino to run for office, very smart guy, great résumé. >> good guy, good guy. >> hinojosa: he has more experience than probably any of the candidates out there.

there's no big latino swelling of support for governor bill richardson. how do you explain that? >> well, bill richardson is doing well in latino-heavy states, compared to the money that he has to get his message out. >> hinojosa: so is it because people aren't necessarily polling, so that part of what happens here is that we don't really know enough about the latino voter because we don't have people... >> well, no. if you look at the polls about bill richardson, they say... and when you look at the questions, "do you know he's a latino?" when they find out he's a latino, then his numbers go way up. for those that know him, his numbers are pretty good. he's running... he's the second tier... he's the top of the second tier, below the first three that are in the first tier. >> hinojosa: so is your sense that bill richardson is doing this because he really wants to be vice-president? >> well, if you ask him that, he'll bite your head off. >> hinojosa: i know that, but i'm asking you that. that's why i'm not asking him. >> i think... >> hinojosa: i mean, is it a historical moment? is it something that he wanted

to prove to himself, to kind of prove a latino candidate can make it? >> i think bill richardson says, "look, the democratic front- runner has never won in modern times when there's not a democratic incumbent; so if i'm in the game..." he knows he's qualified. he's raising a lot of money if you compare him to previous presidential... democratic primary candidates. he's raising as much money as gore raised in 2000. >> hinojosa: wow. >> so he says, "look, i've got a ticket in this sweepstakes. i'm going to play hard." he's doing well. he's a qualified guy. he's projecting well. he's become a, you know, big antiwar spokesman within the democratic debates. and he's waiting for his opening, right? and he knows that the front- runner... i mean, howard dean was the front-runner in 2004, right? >> hinojosa: so anything can happen. >> so typically, the front- runner never wins when there's not a presidential incumbent in a democratic primary. and this is what everybody's jockeying around.

but his money... he's got a lot less money. he started from a smaller base. new mexico is pretty small. and... but he's not... you know, he's not... this is not his last chance. >> hinojosa: he's still young enough. >> he looks at other races. you know, minorities have to break through. somebody's got to do it. jackson did it in the '80s for african-americans, and you know, barack obama is now, you know, leading or, you know, second and equal in funds. so you have to start somewhere, and that's how he sees it. >> hinojosa: you are bringing up the issue of african-americans and latinos. >> uh-huh. >> hinojosa: the city that i was raised in, a coalition between african-americans and latinos brought harold washington, the first african-american mayor, to the city of chicago. what are you seeing in terms of african-american/latino relations on a political front? because there are many who said, "look, when the protests were happening, you didn't have a lot of african-americans stepping up and saying, 'and this is the face of the new civil rights movement.'" there were many who were saying,

"how dare they say that this is the new face of the civil rights movement?" how crucial is the coalition of african-americans and latinos to the political process? and is it really make-believe that there will be a coalition there? >> i think a latino/african- american alliance is a strategic priority. when you look at the demographics in america, the existing elite governing coalition is sun-setting. by the time my kids are my age, this will be a majority-minority country-- a country with a new ethnic majority, comprised of... >> hinojosa: right, but the african-american... >> ...comprised of black, brown, and... >> hinojosa: okay, but african- americans will say, "we've been around a lot longer than you, and we've paid a lot more dues than you." and as you've said, power is power. >> well, that means... that speaks to my point that it's a strategic priority, and this is already happening, where leadership is beginning to sit down and have that conversation,

"okay, for the next two, three, four generations, what's going to happen in america?" we're achieving power. we're breaking through. we're running for president. we're having governors. we're having senators. we're controlling state legislatures. there's going to be a new governing coalition at the state and federal level. what's it going to be comprised of? and there's going to be a lot of negotiating and politicking and horse trading and so on, and there should be, because this has to be worked out, and the process is starting now. it's going to take some time, but i think it's overdue, and we're very excited about it. and you know, it'll be good for america. >> hinojosa: and we will see whether or not it actually comes to fruition. >> it will happen. >> hinojosa: you and i were talking before we got on set about the rise of a very strong, perhaps national political character who's latino, mayor of los angeles, antonio villaraigosa, first latino mayor of that city in decades upon decades upon decades. antonio villaraigosa ends up

having an affair with a television reporter who's involved in politics. and you know, as a reporter, i saw what a fall. you know, we have henry cisneros, who was high and falls because of an affair, and now you have another huge, rising star in democrat politics. and you said, "you know, to look for one person, that's the wrong kind of... that's the wrong question to be looking at." and i'm fascinating by it. i mean, so we shouldn't be looking for strong latino leaders? >> well, there's this paradigm in american politics: you look for the big, charismatic leader. i really think it's a paradigm for the old america, where the country was in a sort of a black/white dichotomy. you had, you know, jfk, you know, martin luther king. you looked for the big, strong leader, and i don't think that paradigm necessarily corresponds to the way latinos are politically structured or the way we see ourselves. >> hinojosa: because we're too diverse?

>> no, we're horizontal. we're not vertical. even when you look at latino politics, lots of organizations, lots of leadership... >> hinojosa: but they're always looking for a leader, a voice. i mean, cesar chavez was that. >> in the old paradigm, and i think that's just... that's old, and we're in a new generation now. >> hinojosa: so it's young leaders coming up? >> no, it's just many leaders, many leaders. and you know, when you have 50 million people, you don't have one leader, right? you have an array of leadership. and just to the villaraigosa point, he was up, then he went down, and i think he's on his way back up. you haven't heard the last from mayor villaraigosa. he is on the mend in los angeles. whatever happened in his personal life happened, and he's going to do great things for the city of los angeles and beyond. >> hinojosa: okay, one of the other interesting points that's not quite clear is the new, independent latino voter, somebody who is a new voter who does not register with the republican or the democratic party. my husband is one of them,

relatively new citizen, completely engaged in national politics in this country, fascinating to watch, was at first quite disengaged, more interested in the dominican republic, now watches all the political shows. but he registered as a green, an independent, small party. how much is this an issue? >> well, it's not a new issue. you know, latinos have been intensively registering outside the democratic and republican parties for a good 15 years now. it's a phenomenon we've seen with, really, the decline of the two-party system in terms of people identifying with them and registering. previously, the trend has been after one or two elections, you make a decision and join a party. we'll see if that trend holds up. we'll just see. there are big issues right now. this is where immigration may be the decisive factor. the party that delivers immigration reform may reap the benefit, you know, going forward, of that new voter, but

maybe not, maybe not. again, with 50 million people and, as many would say, an ossified two-party system, maybe you do see something new developing. >> hinojosa: yeah, but the point is is that will the two parties right now actually carry anything in terms of immigration reform? and actually, i want to ask you about hillary clinton. she has a latina from chicago running her campaign. but it's not as if you could look at the hillary campaign and say, "she represents the latino interest on the question of immigration." >> uh-huh. well... >> hinojosa: and she's got a latina running her campaign. so do the politicians even want to go there? >> i think it's a double-edged sword for a lot of these politicians, and they haven't figured out how to do it yet. and as we get close to the tsunami tuesday primaries, we have lots of latinos voting, their minds are going to get crystallized around the issue.

and it's going to be the reverse. you know, the republicans, you run against immigrants, you get votes. the democrats, it's going to be you run for immigrants, you're going to get votes in the democratic party. they haven't realized it yet, but that's the way it's going to unfold. >> hinojosa: but doesn't that make it incredibly frustrating for you, that after all of the work that you've done, that they still haven't realized that they've got to go after that vote? >> no, not at all. i mean, from my point of view, you got to come through here. so you got to come through here to get to there. and so here we are, right at the pressure point, at the pass. and they've got to come through and clarify their perspective towards immigration reform and latino politics, and they have no choice. >> hinojosa: but how do you explain, then, if they've got to come through here, through you, through latino voters... >> not through me, but through... >> hinojosa: ...not through you, through latino voters-- that the republicans have said no to taking part in the univision debate, that they have not wanted to be present at the national council of la raza, at the naleo events, that essentially... i mean, is the

republican party going to say, "okay, we're just not going to go there at all"? >> no, i don't think so. i think they made a cold-blooded calculation, a partisan calculation. "in our vote, we have more anti- immigrants than pro-immigrants in our primary; therefore, it doesn't benefit us to go to univision's debate." and there's a price they're paying, right? now, what their tactic is going to be after the primaries is to tack back to the center and come up with a more reasonable perspective towards issues that latinos care about for the general election, just like the democrats are going to tilt pro- latino, pro-immigrant-- you know, toward their constituencies-- pro-labor, pro- women, pro-black, and then try to tack back to the center in the general election. that's hard to do. whoever does it well wins. and then it's up to us, the organized constituencies, to hold them to their commitments in legislation after the presidential election decides who the next president is going to be. and i do believe we're going to get immigration reform in... i

don't think we'll get it in one fell swoop. i think we get it in 2009. then we have another tough election in 2010, and then we get the rest of it in 2011. >> hinojosa: okay, years and years and years down the line. >> yeah, yeah. you know, if it's easy, it would have been done already. >> hinojosa: okay. so, antonio, do you think that there has... that this is the electoral season where you have seen the most divided america on the issue of latinos and immigrants? and how does that... kind of here to wrap up, how does that divided america... >> you know, i don't know. i don't know. there have been some divisive elections where latinos were involved. remember the 1932 and '36 elections where... >> hinojosa: i don't remember those. >> well, half of all latinos in america were deported in those years, the great repatriations. >> hinojosa: right, an untold story that we haven't heard enough about. >> the 1848 election was held amidst the invasion of mexico, where half of mexico's territory was taken. it's when abraham lincoln was the only member of congress to vote against the invasion of mexico and lost his

congressional seat as a result of it. that's when he formed the third party, the "radical republicans," and we ended up in a civil war and ending slavery. so all these things... i mean, so this country and latin america and latinos have had a bittersweet relationship for a long time. the 1898 and 1900 elections were held amidst, you know, the spanish-american war, in which puerto rico was annexed from spain, right? so there's big issues. and you know, we're in a period now of polarization. we're happy to, you know, debate these issues and negotiate them up, because we think we have the way forward for america, which is inclusion, not exclusion. >> hinojosa: okay, so 30 seconds, your prediction about the headline right after the new president is elected, relating to the latino vote-- 30 seconds, what's the headline? >> "record-breaking latino vote made the difference in southwestern states and florida." >> hinojosa: okay. well, we'll look for that headline. antonio gonzalez, thanks for joining us.

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