from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original. for over two decades, the

issue one, pawlenty's matter. he's got high hopes! ! ♪ >> let's grow the economy by 5%, instead of the anemic 2% currently in vision. >> the announced republican presidential candidate, tim how pawlenty has high hopes for the u.s. economy. he wants it to grow by 5%, $700 billion growth per year.

this week, governor pawlenty unveiled his economic plan to get that 5% growth. one, cut corporate taxes. from 35% to 15%, permitting more capital for investment and for hiring. two, create two tax brackets, 10% bracket for family incomes up to $100,000, 25% for all other incomes. three, eliminate three existing taxes -- on capital gains, on dividends, and on inheon inheritances. thus yielding more spending money. four, balance federal budgets, with a constitutional amendment requiring that budgets carry no deficit. question, how can tim pawlenty combine cutting taxes and balancing the budget? i ask you, pat. >> do you it, john, with 5% growth a year, which throws off

$700 billion in new gtb every year. the under employed go back to work, they start paying taxes and get off the unemployment rolls, and it's called the magic of reaganomics. it's morning in america again. he's got some good ideas, the reduce the flat rates and then broaden the base, get rid of deductions, exemptions, all those things. i think that's a good idea. this looks like a little bit utopian. but he's got a good strategy and that is he's gone all out to win the iowa caulk busses straw poll in august. and if he does, he explodes and thinks he can become the rival to mitt romney, who is running strong in new hampshire, when they get to south carolina. he's got a good strategy, i think. and he's got the bold idea and he's being tougher, more aggressive, and i think he's doing a pretty good job. >> consumer spending, that's what he wants. >> consumer spend something 70% of the american economy. >> rate.

and he wants to generate more. >> well, i don't think that's what we need. but quite frankly, if you've got 5% growth in the economy after a while, the budget begins to go into balance. >> oh, yes, and we have only briefly had 5% growth in the economy, and they came in spurts after pretty deep downturns. and they didn't last very long some his plan counts on 10 years. it's total fantasy, and he's presenting himself as a truth teller, and what he is giving us are lies dressed as truths. his tax cuts double what president bush put out there, completely unsustainable. you can't pay for them. then he would put a clamp on government spending, and he has a google test. if there's a service that you can find on the internet, then the governfbi, you get rid of the pentagon, you can just -- do it all over the internet. it's a gimmick, i think. he is in good position because

there's nothing objectionable about him, and there aren't -- he doesn't have the floors some other candidates have. but this is a plan that shouldn't be ridiculed and will be ridiculed. >> do you think the story is pawlenty, or what pawlenty is throwing into bass relief, namely, obama. where is the obama plan for getting us out of this recession? is that what is coming into play? >> that's part of it. the other part of it is i think congressional republicans are so politically overinvested in austerity and makes a lot of tense to have a presidential candidate who will be over- invested in growth. and the 5% he said this over and over again, is an aspirational goal. if you don't believe we can hang 5's and 6's coming out of this recession, you're including decline. if you get a republican president with this republican congress, you will see austerity like you won't

believe. vicious budget cuts some this is a approach that makes sense politically. >> welcome, michelle. >> thank you. i like the plan. i think that if the message were being delivered by someone that had the personality of barack obama, the entire nation would be cheering. it's the messenger is a little boring, but when you talk about growth, again i agree with rich. it's a target. it's a goal. any person who is setting up a business has a mission, and they look for it and say where do we want to be in the future? how do we get there? the problem is he's not yet talked about the spending cuts that will have to come along with doing that. cutting -- his budget cuts would be even more drastic than paw lion's, 18% of our gross domestic product rather than 20%. >> reaganomics which you brought up, do you remember what at was david gergen's voodoo economics.

but you're right, john -- >> you peach the speech righter. >> yes. he has a basic point. what he is talking about growth, jobs. he's breaking out of this terrible box obama is in, where obama has run out of options what to do, and there's no program to get the economy moving, which you've got to do! so he's selling a huge national vacuum. >> sock. the pawlenty plan this week drew the support of a major american leader, chairman of general electric jack welch. >> everything i see tim pawlenty say in the last month appeals to me. if you hear what he says in his vision for america, and plan he put out in the last 48 hours, every time i see him on an interview, your show or someone else's, the guy makes sense! >> question, is jack welch's jockeying for a cabinet position pawlenty presidency? [laughter] >> can't ask with a straight face. >> i think not.

and when president reagan was in the white house, marginal taxes were at 70%. it's lowest point since 1950 today. there's a plan that eliminates the capital gains tax, it eliminates the estate tax. it's a huge handout to the upper income of the corporate interests. of course they're going to be cheering. but if doesn't produce the 5% growth, then what? i don't think he'll get to the white house to prove his plan, but i think it should be exposed for what it is. it's -- >> giving away cancan i did. >> can we talk about the percentage of federal spend that pawlenty wants this government to bear, which is 15% versus obama's 18%? >> obama has 25% and 18. i don't think you can get down to 18, given the entitlement program. >> why? >> if you aim for 18, maybe you end up at 20 some it's the right goal. and he is taking on entitlement is and bloc grant, medicaid,

raise the retirement age on social security, means test social security, and he won't go where ryan has gone on medicare but will be aggressive on medicare as well some he's doing the right thing. when he's tries to being it interesting and inflammatory on the stump, it rings false. when he is bold and creative, that's where his sweet spot is. >> this is just pandering to the same politics that brought george w bush to the white house. >> hold on. let me -- >> someone has to give us something positive. the nation is in this perpetual sense of purgatory. what is going to happen? of the democrats, the obama administration, there's not enough people out there saying, here's what we're going to do. here's how -- the road forward. what we talk about instead is a bump in the road. and i'm a supporter of president obama. >> okay. >> when it comes to economic policy -- >> newt gingrich -- hold on. newt gingrich three weeks ago.

>> i'm running for president, as this country needs very dramatic change. program of very dramatic change. >> question, this week newt got his drama but not what he had in mind. what happened? >> well, unfortunately, there was no more inevitable headline in the 2012 primaries than gingrich campaign implodes. though we are surprised how quickly we got that headline. there was a dispute over strategy, basically would newt run a serious campaign or not? and when you go to the greek isles on a vacation with your wife, after the story breaks about the tiffany expense account, you're not running a serious campaign. so at the serious political professional got out of there. >> it's -- aspirational campaign. gradly could have resolve the accounts of tiffany's and go on to the greek isles. he wanted to run a campaign where he shows up and does social media and has a lot of hired guns, professionals

working for him. he want to run a real campaign some if they exposed him for the charade he is. >> he wanted to do tv. he didn't want to do ground. and that didn't go over well with his campaign squad. does tim pawlenty now have the momentum? is the force with pawlenty, yes or no? >> he's got the big mo in iowa, which he has to win, and he could win it. >> eleanor? >> he doesn't have big mo! he may be the last man standing -- >> got some little mo, though! >> are you laughing at your own candidate? >> punitive front-runner. >> that's about as far as you can go. >> he has some mo. i think -- not big but some. >> he's in a better position issue two, afghanistan exodus? >> these additional american and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing

over responsibility to afghan forces and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of afghanistan in july of 2011. >> this was the president's statement at west point in december, 2009, a year and a half ago. and the transfer of power in afghanistan has begun. defense secretary robert gates, a veteran of 28 missions to afghanistan, elaborated on the commander in chief's decision. >> we're making substantial military progress on the ground. i also reiterated my belief that these gains could be threatened if we do not proceed with the transition to afghan security lead in a deliberate, organized, and coordinated manner. >> the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee echoed the digs to withdraw troops. at his full committee hearing this week. >> our current commitment in troops and in dollars is neither proportional to our interests nor sustainable. >> john kerry is a democrat,

and even republicans on the committee are open to the withdrawal of troops. >> if they don't want what we're tryithem, is not going to work. >> question, is afghanistan a vital strategic interest to the united states? >> i absolutely feel that afghanistan -- entire region is a vital security interest to our country. i think many americans as much as we want our troops out there and we don't want to lose any more american bloods, a lot of people have to sit back and ask themselves, are we going to be safe as a nation if we pull out of afghanistan? the other thing i want to raise, john, and i think it's something people tend to leave out of the equation is what kind of country is afghanistan going to be for women when we pull out of that country? you cannot have a democracy or civilized nation when half of the people that live in >> what about that, pat, is afghanistan a matter of vital national interest? >> afghanistan was vital intere

states, john. but we've been there 10 years, we've put in a hundred thousand troops, got 16, 1600 dead, cost almost half a billion dollars. if the united states now pulls out and this thing collapses, and it's seated to the taliban, the americans will be perceived as a superpower that lost a war to which and committed itself and will cease to the u.s. war in afghanistan, now nine years and 300 days old, is the longest war in american history. it's longer than the american civil war, world wa in afghanistan, $444 billion. eleanor. >> well, we're not pulling out precipitously. what they're talking about is beginning a withdrawal, and there are a hundred thousand u.s. troops there to surge -- the president ordered is 30,000 troops, and you have the hawks on capitol hill led by john

mccain saying we can always pull out 3,000. you have democrats wanting to pull out the whole 30,000 surge, which would still leave 70,000 troops in afghanistan, and knowing president obama, who likes to split the difference, they'll probably begin with a withdrawal of 10,000. but you cannot keep justifying this continued presence beyond 10 years. you'll have to wind it down. there are talks going on with the taliban, and i don't see a happy ending. i don't know if there's winning and losing. but i don't think this president will totally walk away from the u.s. >> rich? >> there's no reason to pull out troops this july. you want -- we've made gains in the south, taking away safe havens they've had for years where we've never been. you want to hold that ground. and i object -- i think this washington debate is disconnected to what is happening in afghanistan. i think since the surge, we're pointing in the right direction on key things. the goal is clear, afghan government that is stable

enough to patrol and police itself in the south and the end point is clear, we're out at the ends of 2014. >> what happens then, report in the washington post which basically said if we pull out, the bottom will drop out of this thing. it was produced by the united states senate. >> the -- >> the economy would drop. they say the economy is dependent on u.s.a. i don't know that -- >> but what happens with -- [everyone talking at once] >> the relationship with pakistan, the area is so critical to our safety. >> it's a disaster. >> i do. >> the afghanistan -- is not a theater in which our national security interest is at stake. we should pull out and pull out right away. slowly. pull out. issue three, underwear bomb two. >> i'm deeply sorry i lied. but at the end of the day, i lied because i was embarrassed. i lied because i was ashamed of what i had done and didn't want

to get caught. to be clear, the picture was of me and i sent it. >> new york, democratic congressman anthony weiner this week admitted to sending an underwear anatomy photo of himself to a woman via --

>> question, a recent poll shows that 56% of voters and congressman weiner's district -- where is it? >> queens and brooklyn. >> do not think he should resign! so will weiner survive? i ask you, rich. >> i think he about. there are three things that could make him go, his conscience, his wife, and his party. his conscience is not a problem. his wife is sticking by him. his party wants him to go. but there's a question of what mechanism they have to make him go, and i think he's just learning that governor sanford lesson that if you just stay there, it doesn't matter how much people impound on you and joke about you, you can stay. >> right. his wife really is the i think

the only aggrieved party here. and i gather that she is following what i would call the hillary strategy. their marriage is in parts a political partnership, and she wants hip to stay in congress and she's sticking by him. that's a huge plus in his corner to stick it out. and the voters in brooklyn and queens may get the decision in their hands, and that's more than a year from now. >> i think this -- i agree, i think he'll stay. he's committed no crime. he has lied publicly. but i don't think he has violated the ethics rules of the house. he's engaged in consensual sex. some people are moving to a -- but he has damaged somebody else. humiliated the democratic party, knocked them off their gain and people are mocking them and attacking democrats, saying weiner is one of yours. why don't you demand -- >> hold on! here's what the house ethics rule number one is, a member

officer employee of the house of representatives shall conduct himself at all times in a mannerly reflect credibly on the house of representatives. >> if we go back and name all bad men we've seen engage in incompetent pro rights and in congress over the last few years, not one of them could meet that standard. and what has happened is a crying shame, that the country has become numb to it. governor stanford made, he could stay. >> ever goff where? >> south carolina. >> argentina. >> we have become numb to it. it's an absolute embarrass basement. and not only did they embarrass the democratic party, he's humiliated his wife and the child she will bear. >> we're on the grounds for expulsion. >> i'm not criminalizing it, but i'm saying -- our elected members of congress just as the

president, every single person that -- [everyone talking at once] moral obligation -- >> the standard should be higher than the law. >> exactly. >> representative body, unfortunately -- americans and they have a lot of human foibles, and i think that -- >> lying through your teeth! [everyone talking at once] >> it's not just lying! taking pictures of your body and -- >> it's a disgrace! >> do you think that is going to stir a sex-ting craze? issue four, job angst! >> i'm not concerned about a double dip recession. i am concerned about the fact that the recovery that we're on is not producing jobs as quickly as i want it to. >> the job market should be a

major concern for president obama. and ostensibly, it is. the unemployment rate is 9.1%, no president since 1944, 70 years ago, has been reelected to a second term when the national unemployment rate has been above 7.2%. and these job numbers, this weekends, in almost mid-june are still worrisome. item, individuals unemployed, 14 million. item, 7 months or longer under employed, 6.2 million people. item, average time unemployed, 9 months. job since 1948. as for the overall future, ben bernanke, the chairman of the federal reserve board, says the economic trajectory remains positive, but uneven and slow. overall, the economic recovery

appears to be continuing at a moderate pace albeit a rate that is uneven across sectors and frustratingly slow from the perspective of millions of unemployed and underemployed workers. >> the american people are less enthusiastic. their overall view of the economy is much grimmer. 79% say the economy is in bad shape. nearly 50% of americans believe we will face another great depression within the next 12 months. question, what was the good news about the economy this week, rich? >> it escapes me. maybe the stock market held up but that's really not what people are worried about. if you look at the job market -- >> beige book says no double dip recession? >> that's -- >> you know what the base book is? >> i don't. >> it's parts of arsenal of the federal reserve board. all of the individual -- eight or so entities that cool the

federal reserve call in and give their own environment. that's called the beige book. it says no double dip recession but a resumption of slightly higher growth for the rest of the year,. >> let me say this, may figures were horrible. jobs created went down to 55,000 rather than 215,000 expected. manufacturing went down, consumer sentiment went down. two million homes are vacant. you've got one-fourth of all home underwater. john, it may be a bump in the road, i think wa all hope it is, but if it's not, the president will have a horrendous time death and reelected. >> allege now? >> i think yes. start approaching it. >> what were you going to say? >> if you stay 2%, you don't not good news, that's not enough to get the job market going. a third of the people run

employed have been unemployed for more nan a year. the longer it something, the harded to get a job. >> i would like the president to get out there with a little more urgency in his discussions about what he would like to see happen, even if he can't get things through congress he has to let the american people know he's working for them and if the other side is obstructing -- point them out. i think -- >> or just extend it. >> yes. we need -- >> nor definite spending. >> that's right. all of this talk about cutting back -- exactly the wrong thing to do. >> michelle? >> what i want to add is as we talk about the unemployment rate, one of things this president really needs to look at also and there's no magic program, there's no magic panacea for how we get the economy become on track and, but the unemployment rate for african-americans is over 16%. and what he has to worry about is, do african-americans give up and show up in 2012 to try

to reelect him? >> levels of unemployment. >> there's another problem. harper's magazine he is research shows american men to quit work prematurely who can't find replacement jobs up to 78% higher rick of early death. if it remains elevat will the commander in chief pull out troops from afghanistan and if show, how many? >> 8 to 12,000 in july. >> 10 to 15,000 in july. >> in july? not more than 5. >> i'm with rich, 5,000 in july. july. >> i'll say 10,000.

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