>> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health care consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the mattson mchail foundation in support of public television. and also by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and also by the alice clayburg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you. >> i'm evan smith. he's an activist, academic and author who is one of the true icons of the american civil rights movement. a ten-term veteran of the georgia legislature, he helped found the student nonviolent coordinating committee and served as president of the southern poverty law center, and chaired the board of the naccp for more than a decade. he's julian bond. this is overheard.

♪ >> julian bond, welcome. >> thank you. >> an honor to have you here. >> my pleasure. >> let me ask you about the arc of your involvement in the civil rights movemeet, which i assume you believe continues today. >> indeed so it does. >> you go back to the late 50's when you were a student in college when you helped to found the student non-violent coordinating committee. i date your association with the movement back that far. >> that's right. >> would you agree? >> yes. >> so what have we learned over these years? how far have we come and how far have we not come in your estimation over the broad sweep there? >> it's difficult to measure these distances, how far

we've come, how far we've not. i mean, you can't put numbers to them, or time or space, but think, when i became involved in the movement, i could not sit in the front of a bus in atlanta. i could not eat at a downtown restaurant in atlanta. i couldn't sit downstairs at a movie theater, i couldn't work at most white collar jobs. >> yeah. >> life was extremely restricted for me, and now, for my children and their children, life is open for them. they can go as far as their minds and their energies take them, and that's an enormous change in just a few years. and the fact that we've come this far and that we now have a president who most people, including myself, never thought could be elected, is a great step forward for the country. you like him or hate him. he's there. >> yep. >> and the very fact that he's there is a great mark in our favor, but that doesn't mean that all the work is done and we can sit at home and just fan ourselves and take it easy. there's much more to be done and we need to do it.

we need tooget to it. >> equality is measured notú just in tangible ways, but in intangible ways. >> indeed so. >> yeah. and so in some of the intangible ways, do you believe that therr's a lot of progress that's been made but still a lot to be done? >> yes. exactly so. and i think about housing segregation. it seems to me that's the big, big issue that people in the civil rightss3 movement, including myself and my organization, haven't paid as much attention to. >> yep. >> if you go into any place, i don't care if you're in austin or albuquerque; black people live over here, hispanic people live over here, white people live over here, asians, whomever live over here. >> yeah. >> and as long as that's true, we're not a perfect &->> but what if those groups are self-selecting? >> if they're self-selecting, that's okay. >> yeah. >> and some of them are. >> but in many communities, it is a forced deal. >> yeah. >> and it is a deal that real estate people have connived to make happen. >> right. >> and they need to be punished because it's against the law. >> right. what other areas beside housing discrimination would you say we still have a significant amount of work to do? >> well, i think the level of education our children receive is radically different. >> mm-hmm. >> these children over here.-3 and again, it's tied up to

segregated schools.. >> yeah. >> .segregated housing. these children over here, these children over there, these children over here, don't get the same education, they don't get the same teachers, don't get the same instruction, and they don't get the same grades, and they don't get the same opportunity to have a decent life that all other children do, and we need to do something about that. >> how do we do something about that? let's stay specifically in the area of public education, what to do. people are going to school in their little sections of their cities or communities. >> yeah. >> is, is that something that you would cut up and re-shuffle? >> well, yes i would and i don't mind moving children from ooer here to over here -- >> yep. >> -- if the children over here are in a bad school and can get to a better school over here. >> right. >> you know, no child left behind; hat law says that if you're in an awful school here and there's a good school over here, you can go over here. >> yep. >> but to.in most cities, the good school is already filled. >> right. as a practical matter, it's not possible to do it. >> parents. parents know that that's the good school and they're going to send their kids there. >> right. >> what we need to do is change the law so you can cross the county line -- >> yep. >> -- or cross the school district line and go to a school over here in the suburbs wherr the good schools really are in most cities -- >> yeah.

>> -- and if we did that change, it'd make an enormous difference. >> wouldn't the solution, mr. bond, be to make the bad schools good schools? >> oh, of course. the kids from the badping schools to better schools, shouldn't we be investing the same amount of money in the bad schools to make them better schools that we. >> we should and we could and we've tried it and we haven't put enough energy into it, and so while i'm &-i want these kids to..en, >> in, in the interim let's... >> .in the interim, let's get those kids where the good schools are. >> .give them a lot of opportunities. there is not, as a matter of law, segregation, but the reality is blacks and whites don't have the same opportunities. >> exactly. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> talk a little bit aboutt33 that, let's say from a job standpoint, from a social standpoint, where are there still emblems of the old way? >> well, i think if you just drive down the street and you see a crew working, and llok who's doing the j.work. if it's dirtt work, they're black people and brown people. if it's clean work, they're white people. and we all see this, but i don't think we recognize it. we, we, think about it as being a problem, but it's a tremendous problem because it involves money, and money involves whether or not

you're going to send your kids to school here or there, whatever, so it's a tremendous problem. so it's really a great problem that we haven't done enough about. we've done something about it. >> yeah. >> and we've taaen steps forward. i'm not saying nothing good has ever happened. >> yeah. >> we're a better country than we used to be, but we have more to do and we need3 to get at it. >> what is the root cause of that fact that you just articulated, that if you drive down the street, you see black and brown faces doing dirty work and, and white faces doing clean work? what is the root cause.? i want to understand why we get to a situation like that. >> it is because too many of us, and i mean us the larger sense, too many of us believe that race signifies something bad. that if you're of a certain color or a certain ethnicity, that there's something about you that makes it impossible for you to do this job or that job or the other, and so you assume, "don't give these people those jobs. keep these jobs away from these people. they won't be able tt do them well." >> yeah. >> and the segregation results. >> yeah. so if you unspool it though, can't you tie it back to education, that if we don't provide an equality of opportunity and education, then when it comes time for the folks who go through schools of different sorts, the opportunities are

themselves not equal either? >> exactly, but if spool it even further.. >> yeah. >> .it goes back to housing, it's where you live. >> yeah. >> where you live either by choice or whether you live by chance. >> yeah. >> and if you live over there, you're not going to go to the best schools. >> mm-hmm. and maybe that is itself a legacy of what came before. >> indeed it is. it is. >> so that if you go back through history, we still haven't broken fully the legacy of segregation in this country x, x number of years later. >> no, not at all. yeah. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> does the black community. let's stay specifically what the black face is as opposed to the brown face is in this case, bear any responsibility for the situation that it finds itself in of the story that you described? you know i hear occasionally bill cosby and other prominent black leaders, very well-meaning and are obviously wanting the best things for the black community, who will step forward and say the problem is not simply that others are creating situations that we can't thrive in. we create situations for ourselves. >> i think that's true.. >> yeah. >> .but whetter true or not, if these group of people behave badly.. >> yeah.

>> .and as a result of their behaving badly they don't get the opportunity that they might get.. >> mm-hmm. >> .if they behave better, let's not just focus on them alone. >> yep. >> and i think mr. cosby, whom i love and admire, he's a wonderful guy.. >> yeah. >> .does that too often. >> he too often says that this is on the black community. >> right. and, and i agrre with him, that therr are many ills in our community that we could correct ourselves, but. let me not get in a fight with bill cosby please. i'll lose. [laughter] >> you will. >> yes, i will lose. but anyway, i think he's right, and something needs to be done about this and we need to take it on ourselves to do it. >> right. >> but there's the larger world that also bears some reeponsibility for this and they have to, to pay a price too..3 >> do you think america is a racist country? >> gee, i hate to say that. i think that there are too many racist attitudes in america. >> mm-hmm. >> let me put it that way. i don't want to blame the whole population or say every person who was born here is, you know, some kind of evil person or not, so i don't want to say that.

>> right. but you think that racism is alive in this country. >> oh, surely. i know it is. >> to the same degree that it was 24 years ago? >> no, no, no. no, noo very different. >> yeah. >> this is a much different, much better country now -- >> right. >> -- than it was when i was a kid. >> articulate the difference please. >> well, again, it's where i can live, where i can work. i can, i an, do things. i can be. i can be thhngs. i teach at the universitt of virginia. go to the university of virginia. >> why let's just contemplate that. >> yes. >> let's contemplate that. >> yeah. think about that. >> yeah. >> i go to this school ú&unded by this slave owner, thomas jefferson, and now i teach there. >> yeah. >> and, you know, i'm surr he would not have liked that. >> right. well, he's dead. don't care. [ laughter ] so that's just one.. >> it's a measure of progress. >> that's one measure of progress, and, and it's a wonderful and i'm happy to be the beneficiary of it. and there are other examples you can point to all around the world, so we've made great, great progress, but we ought not believe that everything is fine and everything is over now. it's not. >> you mentioned the president. let's. >> mm-hm. >> let's come to the president as a very real and specific case in which racist attitudes may be a play. >> mm-hm.

>> we have just endured a series of weeks in which the president's citizenship was at issue. although the facts f his birthplace were never an issue, there were those who believed and fomented the belief that -- >> yes. why do they believe that? >> well, this is what i want to ask you. you know, there are a lot of people in this country, including prominently bob schieffer among the people who deliver us the news each day and each week, who have said point blank this has been racism. again, this is an evidence of racism and if barack obama had not been african american, no one would be his birthplace. >> i think that's absolutely true. i don't think everybody who questions the veracity of his birthplace is a racist. >> yeah. >> i think many of them are. i think donald trump is not just a racist, he's a fool. he knows better than this. he, he -- [laughter and applause] >> you don take mr. trump at his word that he has a good relationship with the blacks? >> no because mr. trump has been successfully sued by the government of the united states.. >> yeah. >> .for discriminating in providing housing, rental housing, to black people. >> right. >> he's been found guilty of that. >> yeah. >> and that's a sign of somebody who's a what? >> well, i'll say being a fool is nt illegal.

that may be. >> no, not at all, not at all. [ laughter ] >> although wouldn't it be better if it were? >> yeah. >> right. so you believe that donald trump is a racist and you believe that there has been racist -- >> no. i believe that donald trump engages in racist behavior. i don't know if he's a racist or not -- >> you would not say he's a racist. >> .because i think he's too smart -- >> what's the difference? >> well, he's too smart to do this thing because he's a racist because he doesn't like black people, but i think he said, how can i promote myself in running for president or how can i make people believe i'm3 running for president.. >> right. >> .and attract attention? i, oh, i'll do this. i'll question obama's citizenship" -- >> right. >> -- but he cannot believe that. i think he's not the smartest tool in the box, but he's not dumb either. >> yeah. >> he can't believe that obama -- >> he knows what he's doing. >> he knows, yeah. >> but others, not mr. trump, who don't have the same motivation that mr. trump might have -- >> they're racist. they're racist. >> they are racist. >> they're racist. yeah. >> sooyou believe that there is racism at work in this country directed specifically at this president. >> oh, absolutely. absolutely. >> right. >> just look at the pictures or the posters, at the, at the signs that come over the tea party rallies. and again, i'm not saying the tea party are racist wb either, but i think some

tea party people are racist and i think it's undeniable. >> right. >> these signs of obama with a bone in his nose. >> a bbne through his nose. right. yeah. >> i mean, come on. >> right. but of course, what -- >> you didn't have those with george bush. you didn't see -- >> well, no, but what you did see. but mr. bond, what you did see with george bush was photographs with george bush doctored to have a mustache like adolf hitler's. you know, there, there, there was some on the left of the same, of the same issues. >> i think that's, that's a different magnitude we're talking about. it's ugly and hateful. >> well, let's talk about that. >> it's ugly and hateful -- >> yeah. >> -- but it's not the same thing. >> right. why is accusing the. i'' . this is hardly where i expected this to go, but let's go there. why is accusing the former president of, of a nazi-like behavior different than accusing the current president in ways that demonstrate racism of the accusers? >> because you're saying that george bush behaved in a certain way and did certain ways in ways that remind you, nottme, of adolf hitler. >> right. >> and when you see a picture of.. >> well, them. yeah. right. >> .them, of adolf hitler, which is a terrible comparison i think. i've, i've met george bush. he's not adolf hitler, but when you see obama with a bone in his nose and dressed in a loincloth, yyu're

saying, this guy is a primitive. >> right. >> he's an animal. he's not a developed person. he's not a civilized person, and that, i think, is worse. >> and they'd be never saying the same thing if he were an anglo president. has, has he been a good president for the black community mr. bond? >> yes, but he's not een a everything black people want. and there are many black people that say, gee, i wish he'd done more. but he's a president whom i think about 94% of black people would eagerly vote for again. >> you do believe that. >> oh yeah, and i will too.3 >> yeah. tell me about what he has community wished he had done. >> well, maybe it's what he did do that i wish he hadn't done. >> well, either way. >> when he called.. [laughter] .when he said that the policeman in boston, who in ú&mbridge -- >> this is skip, skip gates. >> this is skip gates. yeah. when he said that was stupid and then apologized for it, that was a big mistake. it was stupid. how can you take a man who gives you proof that he lives where he says he lives, shows you his driver's license and it's where he lives, and then arrest him? that's stupid.

>> but, but the president, in any case, ever attempting to accommodate and compromise and bring people together -- >> yes. right. is a big mistake. >> you don't like. anything else from a policy standpoint that you want to cite that he's done that perhaps the black community wished he hadn't? >> public, public option. i don't know if the black people.community wanted it, but i -- >> probably a lot of people wanted it actually. right. yeah. >> i wanted the public option. >> right. >> and i think he and the democrats and. not he alone, but he and the democrats took this off the table too soon and without telling the rest of us.. >> right. >> .that they had taken it off the table, and later we had found out they're not even talking about this. >> right. so the place that they began was actually to the right of where they said they were going to begin. >> yes. >> you know the, the line often has been that bill clinton was america's first black president. was, was bill clinton a better president for the black community than barack obama has been? >> no. no. no. but he was, in a line of presidents, he was one who had a familiarity and an ease with black people that other presidents did not show. this picture of, of sammy3 davis, jr. embracing richard nixon. >> yes. >> and nixon looking like, oh, this is just awful. >> he'd rather be any place else in the world. that's right.

[ laughter ] >> it just showed you something about richard nixon. >> right. >> and then you come forward, fast forward to bill clinton, and clinton has an ease, and i think it's being a southerner. >> yeah. >> being a southerner, he had an ease with black people. having grown up in arkansas and having lived around black people and havingú black people come into his uncle's store.. >> right. >> .and having a friendly relationship with them. i think he was a different person.. >> yeah. >> .than the other white presidents we've had. it doesn't mean he's lacker than barack obama. >> right. but being, being a southerner were, were, a preconditioned coofort wwthú that and serving effectively as president, haley barbour might be running for president. >> but you know, i think haley barbour probably is more comfortable with black people than many northerners are. >> really? >> yes i do. >> the accusations of racism against him notwithstanding. >> oh yes. >> yeah. >> because i think that some of those are strong, are proper accusations. >> yeah. >> that he does say racist things or ignorant things anyway. >> yeah. >> and luckily as you said, it's not the same thing. you know, it's possible to be ignorant and not be a racist, and he has, you know, on occasion, he's been both. >> yeah. okay. can we talk about how you

got to be this person; how you got to be at this place in your life after all these years? you started out the son of the president of a black college. >> right. >> you grew up in probably better circumstances than many of your contemporaries. >> indeed. -eah. >> .at that time. can you talk about thaa and how you got from there to morehouse and how you decided to get into the civil rights movement, if not as a vocation, then an avocation? >> well, first, my father was president of fort valley state college for negros in fort valley, georgia. and moved to pennsylvania where he became president of lincoln university, which was a black college. >> right. >> but of course, pennsylvania, it couldn't have been black by law. >> right. >> it was black by custom and experience. >> indeed. >> and had white. >> no white enrollees. >> it had a couple. >> it did. okay. >> and white teachers. >> yeah. >> and then we moved back to atlanta and i entered morehouse college n atlanta to go to college, and i was sitting one day in a cafeteria near the school and a student came up toome with a newspaper and held it up and it said, greensboro students sit in for third day.

it told how greensboro black students at north carolina a&t for the third day in a row had sat in. it was a phrase we didn't know; sat in.. >> yeah. >> .woolworth's lunch counter, and he said to me, he said, what do you think about that? i said, i think it's great. he said, don't you think it ought to happen here in atlanta where we are? i said, sure, it's going to happen here. he said, why don't we make it happen here? and before i could say we, he said, you take this side of the café. i'll take this side. [laughter] >> literally. >> yes. >> at that moment. >> yes. and we'll call a meeting and we'll do it. and he was a football player at my college. he was a big guy. lonnie king was his name. >> yeah. >> and you did what he said. [laughter] i did what he said and we called a meeting and our numbers grew and grew and grew and grew. >> yeah. >> and in about two weeks we had our first sit-ins in atlanta. >> had it occurred to you before that point to be politi. you know, "political" in your orientation? >> no. no. i had no thought of myself doing this. i had, i had been inspired by the nine kids who integrated central high school in little rock. >> right. >> and i had asked myself could i do what they did.. >> mm-hmm. >> .if ever the chance came my way. >> yeah. >> well, the chance didn't

come my way and i didn't make the chance for myself until i was challenged to do this by lonnie king, and i took the challenge. >> yeah. you, so you were a college student and then a young adult at the time of dr. king and at the time of malcolm x. >> mm-hmm. dr. king taught me. >> he did? >> yes. >> so talk about dr. king. you're one of the only people i could be sitting across from who knew dr. king. >> i'm one of.i'm one of eight people in the world..3 >> yeah. yeah. >> .who was actually taught by dr. king. you hear people all the time say, "dr. king was my teacher." >> yeah. not true. >> they're lying. they're lying. i was one of dr. king's students. >> okay. -> eight people, students at morehouse and spellman college.. >> yeah. >> .took a class that he co-taught in philosophy.. >> yeah. >> .and i was one of the eight students. >> a.and? >> and i remember one day after class was over, we were walking away and he said. i said to him, doc. his friends called him doc. i said, doc, how are you doing? he said, julian, i'm not doing well. he said, unemployment is high, racism isseverywhere, segregation is immobile. he said, i feel awful. i have a nightmare. i said, no doc, say i have a dream and well. >> is this a true story? [ laughter ] >> no. i made that up.

[laughter] but you know -- >> i will say this. you, you threw me for a second. >> i've told it so any a speech and the guy introduced me, read my bio, and he said, and now, the man who taught dr. king. >> i know. this is the problem. this is the problem with bios. >> what are you going to say? >> right. i know. it's a huge problem. >> what are you going to say? >> but you were in fact a student of his. >> i was a studdnt of his. >> and you did know him. >> i did know him. yeah. >> nd what was it about him as you knew him that made him the person that history will -- >> well, i'll tell you one thing about him. >> i want to understand it. >> he co-taught this class.. >> yeah. >> .with the man who had taught him philosophy. >> right. >> so a survey course in philosophy. >> okay. >> plato, aristotle and so forth. and we had a textbook, which was really a reader, chapters from each of these people. the other guy, who knew more philosophy, i think, than martin luther king did3 because this was his business. >> yeah. >> this is what he did for a living. he knew it like nobody's business and he would read from the textbook. king would recite from the textbook. and i had a textbook, so i'm watching and he's saying, plato says, and he, ssssssssssss --

>> yeah. >> exactly the same thing. >> yeah. >> i mean, he had this tremendous command of wordss3 and treeendous command of ideas that the ordinary person did noo have, and he was able to take you with him as he trans. as he spoke, as hh transformed just something ordinary into something magical. >> yeah. >> he had an ability that i wish i had. >> right. >> i'd pay a million dollars for it if i could, but he was just a marvel of a person. >> do we appreciate the, the fullness of his accomplishments today? you know, i, i look at martin luther king's birthday.. >> mm-hmm. >> .as a day when we should be remembering him and we should be thinking about civil rights.. >> yeah. >> .and instead for most people, it's half off mattresses. >> right. exactly. >> you know. we've turned celebration of his life and work into just another bit of trivia. >> yes. you know, and in the years before she died, his widow mrs. king, coretta king said, this should be a day on, not a day off. this should be a day when we do the things we think he would do were he alive today, and it's a good idea to spend this day doing things he would want us to do. >> yeah. you, yoo served served, as i

mentioned in the introduction, for 12 years as the chair of the board of the naacp. you continue to serve as chair. chair emeritus. you serve on the board. talk about the role of that organization in american life today. what, what should it be doing, what is it doing, and what should it beedoing that it's not doing? >> if it had not been for the naacp. and i think you can say this more about the naacp than you can say it about any other organization in our history. had it not been for the naacp, we woold not have had the civil rights advances that we've had. >> the president of the texas naacp is sitting right here in the front row, gary bledsoe, a distinguished lawyer..3 it is a people's organization. all of its leadership is elected. nobody in the naacp is appointed. >> yep. >> people are elected by other members. it's a democratic, that's small "d". >> small "d". >> small "d" democratic -rganization. there are chapters in every big city in the country and in most small cities and in every state in the union, and it's just a people's organization that for 102 years has knocked on doors and broken down doors.. >> right. >> .and opened the doors for

people to go forward and improve themselves. >> what was your agenda as chair all those years? what did you want to achieve as chair of the board and what did you achieve? >> i wanted just to have a good leadership, and i was happy enough before i left. during my tenure at the naacp we had three ceos, and they were great people, but i left it in the hands of a remarkable young man named ben jealous who is our youngest ceo ever. he's a rhodes scholar. he had spent his entire professional life, 36, 37 years.. >> yep. >> .doing the things we do, working for organizations that do what we do, and so he didn't have any on-the-spot training. he knew us when he came and he's just done a wonderful job since he's been there. that's my proudest accomplishment, bringing him there. >> finding leadership for the organization. >> finding him and bringing him to the naacp and convincing the board to hire him. >> but again, you continue to serve on thh board although no longer as chair. >> mm-hmm. >> i want to ask you what you think, going forward, the two or three big challenges for the african american community are that the naacp can take a leading role in promoting. >> as i've said earlier, housing segregation -- >> still housing segregation. right.

>> it's a big, big problem that we have ot done enough about and we need to do more about it. >> so housing is one. >> housing is one. we need to register voters.. >> yeah. >> .and typically, people in this kind of business wait until three months before election day. >> right. >> i don't want to wait. i want to do it now. >> wait and get it to an urgent deadline. >> yes. i want it to be done right now. >> right. >> because the most important election is coming up and if the right people don't get elected and theú right people don't get defeated.. >> right. >> .our country will be in terrible shape. we're a nonpartisan organization. we don't support candidates, no mattee what people say -- >> although you were thinking of specific people who you'd like to see defeated though. [laugh] >> no matter what the republicans say, we've never endorsed a candidate for public office and we're not going to start right now. >> so when you're just talking about bad candidates in a generic sense. >> yes. right. >> even if those bad candidates in the minds of people who support what you support may be primarily talking about republicans. you're not saying that. i'm saying that. >> i'm not saying that. you're saying that. >> no. i'm saying it. okay. is the issue of voter turnout in the black community the same as it is which is to say that turnout is low and therefore a lot of the change that the community may want in theory doesn't actually happen

because unless you turn out to vote, you don't get to ellct the kinds of people who may carry your eed. >> look what happened just recently. in 2008, you had tremendous turnout in black neighborhoods because inspired by barack obama. >> right. >> the chance to elect the first black president was a powerful motivating force. >> right. >> two years later, that same turnout didn't happen, and you see what happened. >> yeah. yep. >> you see what happed. >> right. nonpartisan organization. >> nonpartisannorganization witnessed the election of idiots. [laughter] >> it. it. be. being an idiot or, or being a fool.. >> yes. >> . in the case of mr. trump, that is something that knows no party. >> indeed so. >> right. >> indeed so. >> so as we finish up here, then looking ahead to 2012, you have reason to hope or reason to believe that the black community will turn back out. >> i have reason to hope and believe because for one thing, organizations like the naacp and we're not the only one, are going to be knocking on doors and ringing doorbells and doing all the stuff we need to do, so i think it'll get done. >> yeah. and as you said earlier -- >> i had heard that since president obama found bin laden and saw him killed, that the republicans are

calling off the election. >> oh, is that right? [laughter] >> yeah. so, so there won't be any election in 2012. >> not sure what papers you're reading. [laughter] >> just continue, we'll just continue on with president obama. >> you said earlier, although he hasn't done everything that you'd like him to do, or perhaps the black community as one, you are unambivalent about suuporting him. >> no president has ever done everything i want him to do. >> right. but what, but what is it finally about him that makes you think he is the right guy for it? >> i'm 72 years old. >> right. >> i have never seen a president as smart as this man, and i've seen them all. >> yeah. >> i've likedd-- >> you've known them all. >> i've known some of them anyway. >> yeah. >> and i've like some of them and some of them have been wonderful people. >> yeah. >> but i've never seen one smartness goes a long way, and he's got the smarts. >> for, for a long time, smartness was frowned upon in higher office. >> i know. >> it's kind of nice to have smartness back as a cool thing. isn't it? >> it is. yeah it is. it's great. >> good. well, it's great to have a chance to meet with you. >> thank you. >> it's been an honor to meet you. &-thank you.re. >> i thank you, julian bond. thank you very much. >> thank you. you're very welcome. [ applause ]

>> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health care consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the mattson mchail foundation in support of public television. and also by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and also by the alice clayburg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you.