>> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health care consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the mattson mchail foundation in support of public television. and also by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and also by the alice clayburg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you. >> i'm evan smith. he's a standup median and former writer for king of the hill who now has the best giggin faibs business and news as a writer for the daily show with jon stewart. he's wie wyatt ein that cenac as overheard.

>> wyatt cenac, welcome. >> thank you for having me. >> very nice to have you here. so it's been now almost two years since you've been a correspondent on the daily show. >> it will be three years in may. >> well, actually almost.it's actually coming on three years. >> yeah. >> right. so do you think of yourself now as a standup comedian who happens to be doing this or do you think of yourself more as a stewart guy as &->> i think i think of myself as a, as a comedian. >> yeah. >> i think most people who see me on the street tend to say, oh, you're that guy from jon daily or you're that guy from colbert. [audience laughter]3 >> that's actually, that's what i hear more often than not is like oh man i love you on colbert show. >> yeah. >> and it's like no that's actually a totally different show. >> right.

>> our offices are a few blocks away from each other. >> yeah. you're the, i'm sure jon stewart loves that. >> right. >> exactly. it's like the office with ee helms. >> yeah. >> it's not, not a great thing. so, so, you're not just an on air correspondent in quotes but you also are a writer for the show. >> yes. >> how much of your time is divided between writing on -he one hand and being on air or producing pieces for air on the other hand? >> well, my day is pretty much writer first. >> yeah. >> so i come in around 9:00-9:30. >> yeah. meeting. the morning and then during that meeting it's all the writers, all of our segment producers and john. and over thh ourse of that meeting, which lasted about an hour maybe we figure out sooething where it's like oh you know, it might be funny to have wyatt in this particular thing. and then i sort of shift gears and i become a correspondent for the day. >> right. >> but if not then i'm working on an assignment writing something that may be for another

correspondent, may be the headline, which is sort of the first part of the show. you know, so, so it varies. or i might get shiited off into the field department, which is a totally other department of producers where those are when we go out and sort of try to get people to ay stupid things. >> right. >> that, that's, that department. >> normally successfully. [ laughter ] a high degree of success. >> you'd be surprised how much people like to say stupid things. >> no, i'm.ú [audience laughter] .it, it's the greatest thing in the world actually. >> it's, it. >> and the field stuff is as opposed to the green scceen stuff where you appearrin dubai or in washington but you're just basically off camera. >> right. >> the field stuff is what happens is, a producer, a field producer and myself will go travel somewhere and, and sometimes to multiple cities and have multiple interviews. so usually whenever we do a field piece we usually try to do it, go out one eek and then the following week

have it cut and ready for air. >> andd and then air. the -- you actually answeredú two questions for me in your first answer, which is. >> oh great then we're done. >> we're done yeah. see. [audience laughter] &-letting you off that easy. you write for other correspondents. >> yes. >> you don't just write for yourself. >> mm-hmm. >> well, that's great. >> it's a very collaborative atmosphere. >> right. >> and that's, that's one of the great things about the show is that it's, it's collaborative because there's really no time to, i guess, get muddled in sort of the caste system ann the hierarchy. >> yeah. >> our enemy is the clock so we have to have a show that day. we can't -- you know, by 5:00 say like oh we spent all this time fighting with each best. >> don't have anything. >> yeah, we don't havee3 anything. sorry audience. >> yeah. >> so, so in that way it really, it, it really is a very collaborative atmosphere where everyooe from the production assistants all the way up to jon, if someeody has an idea throw it out there.

>> right. >> and there are lots of ideas that i, you know, the production assistants, even interns will sort of send out aa idea or, and it's like that's a great idea, let's do it. >> let's do it. >> and, and so that'' what's really nice about it is that to have that kind of diversity of ideas oming into a show everyday. >> and the benefit, too, is that everybody on that show is funny. i mean the other correspondents arr all great and so if they're writing for you just as you're writing for them you benefit from the work of all those people. >> exactly, exactly. >> right. and then the second thing you answered is that jon stewart is actually part of the process. he's not just on the receiving end of your work, he's an active participant in it. >> oh yeah,,no, he. >> yeah. >> .he is, it, it begins and ends with him. i mean we start our day like i said around 9:00-9:30. >> yeah. >> and then jon is in the morning meeting. and really that morning meeting, we're kind of talking about, you know, what ideas might make for n interesting show. and it really goes through the filter of jon.

we'll lookkat, you know, seven, eight different things. ú& yeah. >> and then whatever he's feeling, if he's like, you know, what i want to do? &-know, the wisconsinyou teachers. go down that path.kay we'll and then we'll all start, the segment producers, the writers, jon, we'll all start kind of throwing out jokes and ideas and he'll catch on something he likes. assign a couple people to go off and write a draft of it. but then around lunchtime, he reads that draft. he gives notes. he starts rewriting that. we do a rehearsal around 4:00.ú after the rehearsal at 4:00 will rewrite the show again if, you know, i've seen him goo3 from a rehearsal and do a ground up rewrite of the show, pretty much by himself and just be in a room with like, you know, the head writer and the executive producer and i've been in that room and watched him just kind of like, you know,

walking around sort of thinking about like i want to change this and just totally. >> and, and he does this himself. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i mean it, it's. >> that's great. >> .even, even then it's collaborative but it still is that thing of he's the one who has to say it so he wants to say it. >> right. >> .the way that he finds funniest and the way that he finds most comfortable for him. >> yeah. >> .you have to respect that respect.e's, he's gained that >> he's earned it over all these years. >> yeah. >> and also he has a very distinct voice. i really believe that if you listen to the writing on that show as it comes out of his mouth and your mouths, it's a very particular cadence and a very particular way of doing this. you couldn't mistake it for another program. no, no. and ttat's even, even just his own voice is so different from like my voice or john oliver's voice. >> right. >> .or, or jason jones' voice and when we were making the conveesion to hd we had to do camera tests. and so they had asked me ifú

i would come in and do the camera test. and so they just loaded up one of the previous week's episodes and i'm reading through everything and it's such a weird thing to read thingss3 that areewritten for him because it doesn't make sense coming out of my mouth. >> and anybody else's mouth, right. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> especially all the things about being jewish. those. >> right. [audieece laughter] .now you know i was going to say i'm sure you pulled off that ssuff extremely. >> yeah, yeah. >> .extremely successfully. so that's actually great to know. ss he's,, 'm just going to assume the answer to this question, he's a good guy. >> he is. >> you want him, you want to believe on our end of ii, you lookkat him and you go i really hhpe he's a good guy. >> no, he's a great guy. >> yeah. >> and he's, he's a really great boss. and i've, i've had the fortunate luck to work for some very amazing people. him and mike judge and people that i, before i got those jobs had a lot of respect for. >> right. >> and said oh if there's somebody i would love to work for and learn from it's a person like mike judge,

it's a person like jon stewart. and even walking away from king of the hill and, you know, whenever i walk away from the daily show, the respect i had for those people. >> yeah. >> .going in i still have that same respect going out. >> isn't that great? i think back to the old sid caesar program and how the writers would talk about how sid caesar was such a jerk to them backstage. and it's really nice to know that what we see on camera is actually the same guy who yyu work with. i think that's, i thiik that's pretty wonderful. do you enjoy tteewriting or the.i think of it as performing on camera more?ú which one do you prefer more at this point? >> i like both. i mean i think that's, thaa's why i'm glad that i'm able to do bothh >> yeah. >> i, i. >> there aren't many shows where you can do both. saturday night live is one. >> right. yeah. >> ann this program really. there aren't a lot more. >> there, there aren't a ton. >> yeah. >> and i think part oo the reason i got inno writing3 was because i'd always wanted to perform. >> yeah. >> and it, i realized there weren't a lot of people writing things in my voice.

so i realized i had to do it for myself. >> yeah. >> and even with writing i'm very selfish. when you, when you realize that you can write for yourself it's like i don't want to write for that other person. like. >> right. >> .i wanttto say all these funny things. >> yeah. >> and so, so you become very selfish about it. so in, in that way that's, that's, yoo know, what got me into standup a long time ago. and, and ort of what's kept me in it is that it's nice to write for other people on the show. >> yeah. >> .and then to have this other outlet where i can take whateverrcrazy ideas i have in my head and sort of ú&en perform them and, and do that for an audience is equally as, as enjoyable..3 >> right, now this is not just any show, right? this is obviously a political program.ú now you have non-political guests on occasionally in the last third of the show but it's a political show. how political were you and how important was it that you be aware of the world program?ú >> i was more, i

ú&mmentary than i was political commentary. >> right. >> .before i got to, before i got the show.ú and then it, it's interesting because once you start working there you find yourself entrenched in it very quickly. >> yeah. and, and there is sort of a, there, there is sort of like likeemindset to it bbcause you'll hear people talking about likk, you know, whether it's politicians or even just newscasters where they're like, oh, here'ss3 that thing that kiran chetry said and it's like wait who, wwo is kiran chetry. and you're like what, the, the.and so now it's like okay now i know kiran chetry's an anchor on cnn. and it's like why do i have that information? >> right. [audience laughter] >> there's no reason. >> because you must know it to keep up, right? >> i, i must know it. >> yeah. >> but obody else knows like, oh, kiran chetry, yeah. she does like from 2:00 to 4:00 on cnn. two to 4:00 news, that's megan kelly. it's this weird thing that i now have this information i don't want in my head. [ laughter ] just think of it as a party

trick, right. somebody walks up to you at a party and says, "megyn kelly." and you go, "i got that one." >> yeah. >> that'' exactly it. okay, let me ask you about what i think is the most famous thing that you've done, although everything you've done on the air in my opinion has been really great. the michael steele stuff for at least aaperiod of time was your big thing, right? >> it was, it was a tting. >> it was a thing. >> it was, it was a thing. >> was that youu idea? no.3 thht had started prior to us getting the puppet. jon had been making the joke about michael steele that he looked like thh muppet who keeps sending his soup back at grover's restaurrnt. and so it had staated at that and we would show that clip. >> right. >> and tten i think what happened was myself and another writer, elliott kalan, one day foond out that fao schwartz,,their offices -- their store isn't too far from our offices. they have sooething called a make your own muppet workshop. [audience laughter] and for like $100 you can go and you can mmke your own muppet.

and so elliott and i both wanted to go check it out. and i had wanted to go but i didn't want to go by myself because i thought there was something creepy abouu an adult man hanging out in the toy store. [[udience laughter] i don't -now any children. so it just seemed strange. >> but you, but you would actually if you weet. >> yeah. >> right. >> part of theeproblem, right..3 >> .ittjust seemed very strange. soothen elliott also wanting to go. >> yeah. >> and so the two of us were talking and we were like okay, well, we'll goo3 together, because then it doesn't seem as weird. [audience laughter] like you nevee hear of like, you know, pedophiles hanging out in groups. [audience laughter] like just a gang of pedophiles. so it was llke okay, well, we'll, you know, we'll, we'll go together. and so i think i brought mine back to the office and ú&think from there the wheels started spinning that, oh, maybe we could make a muppet that looks like this muppet from, from and i think once that happened, it then became, oh, and then let's just have

wyatt do it because he's gott he's already got a muppet. so. [audience laughter] .i think the idea was, the idea was that i was practiiing. [audience laughter] >> yes, just tell people that, right? >> yeah. >> this whole tting was planned. it was not creepy. >> no. &- but so then from hat, it, it became okay we're going to do this thing. and i think the first thing we did was the, the rnc had, it had come out that they had blown all this money at likk a strip club and so i, i think that was the first time that we were going to use this, use this muppet was to sort of do a reenactment of that. and after that they were like okay, well, you know, we wann to have the, we want to have them talk, and so they, they had asked me to do something. and at first i, i was, i was trying to do an impression of michael steele. and i really, i'm, i'm horribbe at impressions. that's not my forte. i, i'm, i'm, i'm not very good at it.

and so i just figured oh i can't really do michael steele. but everything i saw of him he kept sort of talking -bout how he wanted to bring like a hip-hop flavor to the rnc. and he kept using like slang that seemed like it was from [audience laughter] and so i figured okay who would this guy, if,,if this guy is 10 years behind.like then i was like oh let me exaggerate it and like maybe the personnhe would think would be a cool person would be like bootsy collins. [ laughter ] and so that'' what started i ú&ink the first time me saying like 'bibble' every time he said somethingg was like i think i started going like 'hey, bibble, bibble'. and it was really juss a bootsy collins impression. i'm better at bootsy collins than i am at michael steele. and so it, it started as that and then just kind of evolved into this hing where i think, you know, the first time i did it then i think everrbody became happy

with bibbles and, and so then it -- it just sort of came back and came back. >> and if anything i really have a lot of respect for the people who really do muppet stuff. like because itts not, it's not easyy like because they park you behind the desk and they're3 like alright,,do this thing. but you're usually like upú like this and you're looking down at a monitor here and3 your eck is craned and your arm's up. and, and the puppet, it's not like they make it easy to do that. like your thumbs get really tired. and but it was -- it was -- it was fun and i'm glad that people eejoyed it. >> and you got to, to do it in front of him. >> i did, yes. >> in the end he came on the program and he essentially debated himself or talked to himself in, in puppet form. >> he talked to himsell and iiwwll give, i will give michael steele a lot of credit. one, he is a person who is very self-aware and willing to sort of laugh at himself,

which issrare and i thhnk ú&en rarer among politicians and people in that, in thaa world. but when we talkeddto him about it, i, i went backstage anddi, and i was talking with him. and he was also just a very interesting guy. like you, you really got the sense that he was really hampered by the rnc. and, and sort of by the, the watchdogs f the, you know, the rnc and, and the republican party because when you hear him talk and you hear whht he wanted to try to do, you're kind of like, oh, that makes senne. like i don't agree with maybe everything that you, that you feel politically. but i don't agree with >> anybody. hat way. >> but talking to him, like we haa this amazing conversation just in the green room. and what's interesting is i

think a lot of times with politicians and off camera, yoo'll have these veey interestinn conversations with them. and they, they seem rational. >> and they seem normal, right? >> and they seem normall >> right. >> they seem, they're generally engaging and they seem thoughtful and they, they're reasonaale. and then they get a ccmera on them and they just go crazy. >> yeah. and it's something that's so stranne because you, off camera it's like okay you seem like a normal person. like why are you playing this character? like, like i'm playing a puppet bbt you're doing it, too. and, and not just michael steele, across the board. >> right. >> it''.and, and that's what's so, that's what's so interesting. and also kind of, kind of sad about it is even when we conventions or we go, you

know, andd and interact with politicianss the person they are off camera is one more interesting and more, you know. >> mm-hmm. -> .seems slightty more in touch with their constituency. but also there's this aspect that they feel like they're playing a game. and they know when they've sort of dropped the curtain and it's like lright you and i caa talk. these suckers out here. >> right. >> and it's like you shouldn't have our job ifú >> yeah.k they're suckers. >> and you're playing this game and playing this sort of weird wrestling, you know. >> riggt. >> .wwe style wrestling match. it's like no, don't waste everybody's time like that. like if we wanted to watch wrestling. >> we'd watch wrestling. >> .we'd watch wrestling. >> how, how often did we hear 10 or 12 years ago, you know, that if you only got to knoo al gore, the real al gore, he's really funny. -e's not boring. and then the guy who shows up to un is this, you know,

ciggr store indian, right. >> yeah, yeah. >> it's a, it's an >> it's an unfortunate thing. and i think. >> yeahh >> .-t's, you know, some of it i guess is maybe our expectations as aa3 constituency that we expect ttese peoole to be perfect. and we expect them to, you sector of their base as one opposed to saying you know what? i cannt be that selfish as a voter and realize that, you know, there are other be addressed as well. and i, you know, some of that goes on me. and that i, i also have to recognize that this person's not perfect. >> yeah. >> this person's going to ú&ke mistakes. this person's allowed to make mistakes. if iim allowed to make mistakes they're allowed to make mistakes. >> so, so, so are they. >> and. we have a few minutes.

i want to ask about king of the hill. >> alright. >> a program that, i don't -hink was fully appreciated ú& people out in the world. i, i, i, i and it's very, very funny. you know you look at the old programs. show. how did youuget connected &-you mentioned mike judge before. >> yeah. >> .the creator offthe program. how'd you get connected with that show? >> it's, it's interesting. i went to the university of north carolina aad while i was there, two writers from king of the hill came and these guys, john altschuler ann dave krinskyy and so they were carolina graddatee. and i had sent them a letter before they had shown up and asked if i could have lunch with them, and so they agreed. and we -- we had lunch. as well that they'd reaa and i had sent them a short film that i'd made. >> yeah. >> so they, they were like well, when you move to los3 angeles stay in touch with3 -s, and that really pllnted a lot of the seeds. i, i was in la for about three or four years. and then over time i, i had sort of been writinngand, and eventually i guess there was an opening at king of the hill. and so they had encouraged me to submit a writing

>> so they really meant it. they didn't just say keep in touch and they thought forget about this guy. they actually, they accually meant it. >> they, they meant it and they. >> yeah. >> .they were so great. jon and dave were so, so great in my career. because even once moved out to la they were resources for me. and if i wrote scripts they would read them and they'd give me notes. >> wow. >> and, and so they, so i mean i'm, i'm very grateful to a lot of peoppe. and it's weerd because i think you hear people talk aaout how like, oh, hollywood. there are a loo of fake people in hollywood. and, and there are. >> there are tons of fake people. yeah. >> tons of jerks. bbt i've beee very fortunaae that throughout my career i've had a lot of grrat people who have been very -elpful to me from, i was an intern at saturday night live. and colin quinn, while i was in college, was someone who helped me and, and read sketches and read thingss3 that i wrote. >> he, he did fake news, right? >> yeah. >> he did weekend update. so you go back to fake news there. >> yeah. and he, especially

coming out of college, was -y -- you know, a huge influence on me.3 >> one because personally he did so much for me and i got because of olin. and then to move out o la and to have john altschuler and dave krinssy beesuch a great resource for me and then getting on king of he hill and getting to work with mike and spend some time with mike. and animation was always something that as a hild i was inttrested in. i, when i was, when i was probably like 12 or so i was in, i took a college community course in animation myself. &-friend growing up, this kid brian vaughan, his mother put us in a, in a community college animation course. >> yeah. >> and so i was always very innerested in it. little stop motion films with their video camera. and ss to work with mike and -et to, get to see that3

process, you know, outside of, you know, someone's basement. >> yeah. >> .with a, with a stop motion camera, it was, it was amazing to see that. and, and just to, just to kind of to be a part of that, just even for the three seasoos that i was there.3 i, i was so appreciative. and also just being frrm texas, i think when i first started, there was an episode they were working on my first day, which was this episode called new cowboy on thh block. and greg daniels, too, i can't, an'ttforget greg because ggeggwas actually the one who brought me in that day. >> yeah. >> .to that episode they wweee they were rewriting it. and when i had met with greg for the shoo, prior to getting hired, one of the things we talked about was when i lived in dallas i lived across the street from this guy named oug onnelly who was a special teams player for the cowboys for one season. that's all, and you know was cut after that. but he was the goddof the

dallas cowboy. >> right. and so this episode new cowboy on the block, hank and the guys, there's a guy, a dallas cowboys player who moves in. >> yeah. >> .acrrss from them. and so when they were doing the rewriteeof this greg brought me in and it was this very crazy thing. like greg daniels of the simpsons aad you know and now king of the hill and like he's asking me to sort of sst in on this. this is my first day and, andd you know, i, i really am appreciatiie to all those people and jon ow as well, too. that like i've been very fortunate that while there >> wwll, it, it's, it's great. it's an amazing story how you got to this point and ii's very impressive and i'' excited, we're aal excited to see what happens next. -o we're out of time, wyatt. >> oh. >> but that was great. i thank you ery much. &-me., thank you for having >> great to see you, wyatt

&-thank you very much. >> thank you. >> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government ffairs consultancy and its global health care consultinn business unit, hilllo health. foundation in support of public television. and also by mfi foundation, improvinn the quality of life within our community. and also by the alice clayburg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you. n > ññññññññgwgogo/é,énnnnínnníí