from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original. for over two decades, the sharpest

issue one, rich man, poor man. >> the rich have been getting richer. the poor have been getting poorer. that's the way it's within for the past 30 years. >> former florida democratic congressman alan grayson is angry. there's too much money at the top of our culture. not enough at the bottom. the gap between the rich and the poor is deeper and wider than ever before. grayson is right! so says the authoritative non- partisan cbo, congressional budget office, released last week in their report. over the past 30 years, the wealthiest 1% of americans had incomes that rose by, get this, 275%. the average salary for that top 1% of the wealthiest americans for one year of work was $352,000. where isas the middle, 60% of americans, aka the middle-

class, saw children come increase by just 40%. the average salary for a middle- class american rose to just under $50,000 a year. why this enormous income gap? one major reason is that u.s. workers without a college education cannot compete with the chinese, the indian, or other workers around the world that better educated and cheaper. question, is it a fallacy that the rich just get richer? pat buchanan? >> no, john. what happened to the american economy is dramatic historic transfer from manufacturing and production power to a financial capital where people buy and sell and trade paper. second thing happened is this, we dropped the u.s. economy, we had the highest wages in the world, and strict regulations into a global economy with countries with the lowest wages you can imagine, and no

regulation, so production and manufacturing in all those jobs left the united states and went to china, asia, other countries around the world. that's why the middle-class, blue collar workers have had have arrested in coming for 30 years, because we've done that to the american people, john. and take the first decade of the 20th century. we lost 6 million manufacturing jobs, one in every three we had. and 55,000 factories. that's what happened to the american middle-class. they were sold out by both parties in particular the republican free traders. >> eleanor? >> well, pat is right, the income disparity is a result of policy, deliberate policies, that go back to the reagan era, and it's a trend line that was dramatically accelerated after the bush tax cuts. the opposition wall street crowds in new york and other cities around the country get credit for putting this issue on the top of the political

agenda. i don't think we would be talking about this if we didn't have people camped out in new york. >> susan? >> there's some fallacy in that argument. i think the tax foundation put out interesting statistics this past week that show that the income distribution is shrunk because people earning the most were hurt the most in the past recession that started in 2007. so the numbers gone down a little bit over the past five years. and that's not pointed out in the study too. so there's that issue to think about. and there is also the fact that there's more wealth at the top of the spectrum now, but since clinton came the tax rate, people paying taxes at the lower end, has gone down. >> here's some more learned thinking on this and polling. the top 1%, those making $380,000 and up, in 2008 suffered the largest income shocks in percentage terms of any u.s. income group. >> up or down?

>> shockingly down. in good times, their incomes rise more than average, in bad times their incomes fall far more dramatically by a factor of three times the average. >> know why. >> is that re departmentive -- >> no, whether wealth comes from investments. look what's happened to investment over. >> what do investments involve? >> risk. >> so it could go either way. >> take care of yourself, pal. that's a complete reversal of the way we -- days of teddy roosevelt, we have believed that certain amount of fairness about both tax policy and the benefits of economy. >> john, 40% of the wealth and income came from finance. this is just -- it's casino! you're trading paper, bond, stock, hedge funds. you're not making things and selling things. we used to produce 96% of

everything we consumed. >> do you think the top percent are bankers and wall street financiers? >> they call themselves job creators, but i don't see the jobs. they've had a wonderful decade and we've had negative job creation for the first 10 years of this decade, and they've made money doing what pat says, they've shuffled papers around as they come up with creative new ways of secure advertising things and getting insurance on it. it's a huge scam and they got away with it because there was no regulation. >> i took the head of nit who told me our guys used to go into engineering, they're all gone to wall street now. that's where the money -- >> the top 1% we're talking about are hollywood celebrities, athletes, university and college presidents, get a load of that, doctors, ceos, and 65 moguls and bankers and the financiers. what do you think of that? no talk show hosts!

>> well, one should have been in there at least, john. >> how did they miss you, pat? >> "occupy wall street" gets credit but what is their solution in redistribute the wealth. >> "occupy wall street" has changed the conversation and that's valuable. just like the tea party kempt for the conversation. >> we're going to get to that. here's the good news. one, stock market's up all over the world on thursday. the markets soared. the dow close up up 339 points in the u.s. two, usgdp growth up july, august and september, 2.5% growth. nearly double the growth rate for the previous three months, 1.3%. three, greece debt deal. the deal will cut the amount of debt that the debt ridden greece will be obliged to pay back. 50%. not bad, huh, pat? are these the first indicators of a u.s. economic rebound? >> i don't think it's time to break out the champagne just yet. but i think the president must

be feeling a little bit more confident that his policies that he put in place are beginning to work. but a lot of this has to do with europe and the fact that they apparently have come to a plan forward. the irony is they have to go to the cheese to get the money to put into this default fund so they can bail out the western economy. and i think it's a real signal that the center of gravity in the globe is moving from washington, d.c. to china. >> the key question is the bonds, it's not a good deal for the folks who got the greek bonds. they lost 50% the other day. if that happens, john, in portugal but especially in italy, we'll be right back in the pot. >> compensation for the credit default slots. >> that's right. let's see the devil in the details of this plan. everyone thinks it's not good enough, but it's something to get us straightened out in europe. what will happen in italy and other big countries? but it's clearly sent a signal

to the market. things rebound this week. >> what will be the ows impact on the presidential race 12 months from now in in other words, is "occupy wall street" likely to be transitory or enduring? pat, exit question. >> it will be very damaging to the president, if they gets too close to t because it will end very, very badly with these folks in the winter and they're not going to be getting publicity and they'll be acting up and badly like the worst of the demonstrators in the 60s. >> you mean overnight camping, stuff like that. >> they're going to start fighting with the cops. >> there was one fight with the cops in oakland, and iraq war veteran was hit in the head and is in critical condition. i don't know who you blame for that. but i know how i view it. >> the person who threw it. >> staying power? >> i think she have staying power. and secondly the suffrages who stood in front of the white house thought they would go home when it got cold. they heated bricks on.

they have staying power. >> there's not ma many of them. we were talk earlier, there's hundreds of thousands of people who marched and protest the war in iraq in 2004. we're talking couple hundred people camped out here and there, washington, d.c. so staying power is -- i guess in the media, we'll probably keep reading about them. but i think also once winter comes along, you'll see some of these people head home. and it might get smaller. >> the issue will be there, and don't measure their success by their numbers on the street. measure it by the way the conversation is changing. we're talking about wealth gap right now. so talking about what where we will cut now, stop spending now? all we talked about for the last several years. all of a sudden now we're seeing the conversation shift and early polling shows the "occupy wall street" group among those following the news as more popular than a tea party. that goes up and down as well. but part of the tea party's problem is they're victims of their own success right now. so all these movements go

through certain cycles. >> the answer is this transitory, unless they spawn a third-party candidate, and this >> i expect all of you to march with me and press >> president delivered an address at the dinner of the congressional black caucus, the cbc, an organization of 43 black members of congress. president obama's speech gauged a lot of attention, largely because of what mr. obama had intended to be a rallying cry. >> pick up your bedroom slippers, put on your marching shoes, shake it off! stop complaining! stop grumbling! stop crying! we are -- >> critics accuse the president of using language that deepens any stereotype of black americans as passive, complaining, and or lazy.

tv host smiley blasted mr. obama for the perceived slur. he argues mr. obama would never use with lateen, jewish or gay americans. >> would he ever say to our hispanic brothers and sisters on immigration in their concerns, stop gruesome ling? stop crying, stop complaining? did he say to gays and lesbians, top gruesome ling, stop crying no how does he get away with saying this to black folk when he would never form his lips to say that to any other constituency? >> clarence, how do you want to address this? >> well, i think first of all, for those who were in the room at the black caucus, there was a lot of love in the room. while you're going have people saying he shouldn't have said that, blah, blah, blah, still, he had the crowd with him. number two, everybody knows smiley and cornell west have

been -- criticism of barack obama since before his re- elections for not being close enough to the liberal progressive agenda they follow. i've known cornell 15, 20 years. i respect all of them. but they have disagreements. >> what do you think of the new york times poll according to september new york times poll, 10% of african-americans say obama has not met their expectations? if this 10% sent is out in 2012, it could cut badly into obama's african-american support. >> i think 10% is too low. i think they were being nice to the pollster. there's a lot of defibrillates kentucky among black folks. >> there they stay home on voting day? >> no. put that out of your mind. you may not get that 96% turnout you got before, but it's going to be a very high turnout. >> how critical is the black vote in his election? critical. talking about close space, very important. so -- >> you know the african-

american. >> let him finish. >> the will be and hispanic vote are both very important, but -- >> what do you hear on the street? >> i hear on the street discontent, like in chicago, people saying, why isn't he more of a chicago style politician? why isn't he tougher? that's why you've been hearing tougher language coming from him lately. but i think people are more pleased now than they were a couple months ago, and that's a cross -- not just black folks. >> karl rove wrote a column months ago, why obama is going to lose, he zeroed in on north carolina and the percentage of black voted he got there. and a slightly diminished turnout -- very maul -- that's the point! i think clarence is right, african-americans want this president to succeed as do most americans in that he has that as an advantage. >> the difference of wanting to succeed and getting out and

voting so the enthusiasm three years ago may not be there this time around and that could cost him. >> barack obama won the black vote 24 to 1. mccain got the same share as david duke got running for governor of louisiana. african-american voters gave barack obama 25 or 26% of all his votes. the question is, are they going to come out and as they did and be 13% of the electorate, or will it drop off a little bit and percentage go to 90%, which that case would be -- >> okay, hold on! >> make any kind of difference. >> running against him makes a big he does not have my vote. >> latino political activist armando navarro voted for president obama in 2008. but he will not vote for him in 2012. miss his frustration has trainingled down to the latino population at large.

why? item, immigration. the president promised to make immigration reform, that is a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, a priority in his first year. mr. obama has completed nearly three years in office and no path. item, unemployment. the overall u.s. unemployment rate is 9.1%. the u.s. latino unemployment rate is 11.3%. item, poverty. the overall poverty rate is 15%. the latino poverty rate is 25%. item, youth poverty. there are more latinos under 18 living in poverty than any otherth nick group. 6.1million, less than 50% of latinos back the president. that's nearly a 20-point drop from the figure in 2008, e pres question, the democrats control both the house of

representatives and the senate from 2009 to early 2011 this year. why didn't president obama deliver on immigration reform both to keep his promise and to keep his latin american constituency? susan? >> very simple technical reason, is they couldn't get the number of votes to clear a filibuster, which is 60 votes. had he had that support, a little -- might have been able to push it, though moderate democrats who night not have supported it either. so the real problem was he didn't have enough democrats, and then even rats aren't so key. >> he disagrees. >> i agree. amnesty is a killer. it almost killed john mccain in 2007. >> what kind of amnesty? >> when you talk about a path to fit zenship, taking the 11 to 20 million illegals and putting they will on a path to citizenship, in other words they're not going to be sent back, they'll be legalized, that is amnesty to every conservative, and -- >> how is that objection

cleared by the path itself and the requirements of the path? >> look, because what you're doing is basically -- you're here now, you're -- >> how long does it take on the path? >> people don't want it because you're making -- >> they could be the children of illegals. >> if they're born here, they're automatic citizens and they want anchor babies stopped too. >> they were born there and came here as children. >> they're illegals! [everyone talking at once] >> and you're going to leave it that way for the rest of their lives? how many of those you think there are in the united states? >> 11 to 20 million. >> any disappointment -- >> what do you think of that? you want them all to be illegal. >> they're still illegal! [everyone talking at once] >> so what, so what! >> excuse me! >> any disappointment that hispanics might have in president obama is more than overcome by attitudes, like pat buchanan just expressed. they boo when the subject of immigration reform comes up.

they're trying to outdo each other as to who can be tougher. >> why doesn't obama talk about it if it's search a good issue? >> because -- i did a column. they're mostly disappointed and even angry about the high deportation rate, which has gone up, something that homeland security backgrounds about. he is deported more in his term than -- [everyone talking at once] >> he's changed that policy now. he's only going to target violent offenders and get those out of country and leave everybody else. [everyone talking at once] >> why isn't anybody talking about what the technically illegal r what they contribute to science, what they contribute to said in. >> because were you would lose you're election, john! >> what they're concerning the highest levels of our society and how we need them with us the white population, the white population is shrinking! [everyone talking at once] >> he's worried about it!

>> i agree with you, john. >> i think we should welcome these things! [everyone talking at once] >> i agree, but for both sides, the system is currently broken. and if not being fixed bus of gridlock. >> john -- [everyone talking at once] >> sorry to interrupt. exit question. president obama proposed this week to ease refinancing for homeowners whose mortgages are underwater. will this gain back his hispanic support? >> no, and the immigration should be cut bus we have 25 million underemployment and you're bringing in work >> we're not bringing them in, we're raising the ones who are here illegally who have grown up to be illegals. >> sends them home and tell them to get in line! >> come on pat, that would ruin the economy! >> they're at the top of their profession, some of them! >> immigrants, whether legal or illegal, have not ruined the economy. the state of alabama is a wonderful little pilot project here. they have a tough anti- immigration stop anyone

suspected of being -- kids dropping out of school, leaving the fields. the business is collapse engine alabama. that's what happens with pat's idea. >> not help anyone, so i don't see how hispanics would like -- not help them. >> >> underwriting mortgages? hispanic vote? >> new legislation. >> well, i'm in favor of it. issue three, mormonism, religion or cult? >> the concept that we select people based on the church or the synagogue they go to stay a very dangerous and enormous departure for the principles of our constitution. >> mitt romney says that his mormonism should not bar him from winning the white house. governor romney, a devout mormon, has been a target of texas pastor robert jeffers. he says that mr. romney's mormon faith is not a religion,

it's a cult. >> in my estimates, mormonism is a cult, and it would give credence to a cult to have a mormon candidate. >> so if republicans want to nominate mitt romney, a several identified mormon, as their official g.o.p. candidate to run for u.s. president, that would credentialize a cult, says jeffers. but mormons point out their religion is a faith, not a cult. item, jesus. "mormonism is indistinguishable from christianity." so says the church them believe jesus christ is the messiah. the second person of the holy trinity, of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. item, mormon population, nearly 6 million americans practice mormonism in the united states, and 17 million worldwide, including the united states.

item, tax-exempt status. mormonism is exempt from taxes on expenditures, exactly as are other religions like catholicism, judaism, hinduism. that tax-exempt status is a further guarantee that mar mannism is a religion and tax- free in its expenditures. not what a cult gets, by way of being tax-free. item, no polygamy! one man and one woman, not one man and many women, as used to define marriage in mormonism. the mormon church outlawed, in fapolygamy in 1904. question, will mitt romney's mormonism diminish his chance to become u.s. president? >> i think some christians may have a problem with it. but frankly, between the book of mormon being a huge success on broadway, a mormon church ad campaign about i'm am i mormon with posters on the side of buses, the big love series on hb, it's cool these days to be

a mormon, and i think it's taken some of these entertainment shows have taken some of the mystery out of mormonism, so i think broadly speaking in the general election, it would be no problem for mitt romney. >> is the plan broadway -- more mormonism in defense of mormonism? >> it's a comedy! musical comedy. >> is it re departmentive of mormonism? >> i think it invites humor. they make fun of some are decisions. >> mormons making fun -- >> you could do it for every religion. and there's some leaps of faith in every religion. >> what do you make fun of in catholicism? you make fun of the mope. >> the problem with mormonism, it's a cult, one thing, with a problem in the south, although he should win because obama in the south. but here's what will happen, john. the media will do specials and other things, on mormonism and

beliefs in mormonism that are extraordinarily controversial, and i think they will highlighted those and people don't know anything about it, and i think they can use those to damage romney. >> we haven't had a jewish president. we haven't had a hindu president. what about an athiest? >> i don't think -- >> could be elected. >> wait a minute. i thought that religion was a private matter, and the separation of church and state is -- >> anyone running -- >> why does did make a difference if an athiest is an athiest? as far as the presidency is concerned. >> people want to believe their president believes in god. >> but it's people won't vote for him. be disqualified, he just wouldn't be voted for. >> he might have already had one. we don't necessarily know. it people's beliefs are private. >> why are both of you equating agent imwith a lack of spiritual value? what they deny is the existence

of a god. they don't deny nor do they not practice spiritual values, extending beyond their being a god. >> i'm surprised nobody has mentioned tom wolf's get about how a cult is any religion that doesn't have political clout. because that's what we're seeing here. the mormons are in utah nobody calls this. a cult. and it's like -- there's a debate like how many angels could dance on head of a pin? when it comes down as that minister who you quoted said, people asked him are you going to -- vote for obama over romney? he said oh, no romney wins. >> i thought i moved us well beyond mormon. i'm talking about an agentiest, someone with spiritual values that -- >> he wouldn't be elected! the people would vote against him. >> because they think an athiest does not have the values. those are not

the super committee will fail, and the slicer will be put into effect, yes or no? >> you got it! >> no. >> no, it won't fail it. will come to agreement. >> come to agreement it, will be two states agreement. >> last two -- panelists are correct. it will come to an agreement. bye-bye! trick or treat!