>> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health care ccnsulting business unit, hilllo health. and by the mattson mchale foundation in support of and also by mfi foundation, improving the quality of llfe within our community. and also by the alice kleberg reynoldssfouudation and viewers like you. thank you. >> i've evan smith, he's a comedian, satirist, and new yorker contributor whose fake news website and accompanying social media extensions should be at the top of the most reads..3 his new book is the 50 funny jess writers, this is andy

>>ropitz, overherd. >> i would do that when i wanted to get that -- that buzz you get from wwrking at the absolute top dollar -- [laughter] >> smith: andy borowitz, welcome. >> borowitz: thanks for >> smith: nice -- nice to have you here. can we start picking on the list? right away? right off the bat? >> borowitz: yes, yes. be combative please. >> smith: i will be absolutely combative. now i want to say before i &-introduction to the listou that it's not necessarily a top 50 list. it's just 50 pieces by 50 writers you found funny. >> borowitz: it's -- theecommarison i make is, it's a playllst. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: it's -- it's like if somebody said could you just put toggther a pllylist of your 50 favorite

songs, ttose wouldn't be thh 50 greatest songs of all tiie, and i must warn you, my ipod hassa lot of things in it that would make peeple cringe. >> smith: right. >> borowitz: i mean because respectable people would like, like beatles and dylan, but i also have several songs from xanadu by olivia-newton john [laughter] >> smith: right. >> orowitz: and i -- i feel with that in mind, i think i -- >> smith: it's not a bad song, it's just -- >> borowitz: no, no, but i mean i have things like, i ú&ve you know, james bond theme music, and i have um she's a lady by tom jones >> smith: right. >> borowitz: so given that i've got all those thinns in my ipod, this list starts looking better, in comparison to that lisst >> smith: compared to tom jones. >> borowitz: compared to that, but you know the point was there -- i read library of america approached me, and they said we want you to do an american humor anthology, so i read a lot of american humor anthologies, and what i found was, they kind of went against the grain of the task at handd which is to make people laugh. they were sort of encyclopedias of humor. they wanted to cover all the bases.

-> mith: yeah. >> bbrowitz: and so benjamin franklin would be in some of hilarious! [laughter] compared to james madison, yes, he was really, reallyú like, wait a minute, i want this to be, and i think you would make thhs assessment,3 i want ttis to be an awesome bathroom book. >> smith: right. >> borowitz: i want this to be the first bathroom book in the history of library of america. >> smith: right. yes. >> borowitz: you know because they'')re uued to doing -- >> smith: it's not exactly their brand. >> borowitz: no, i mean their books are usually you know these very black, serious looking volumes of things like the collected works of herman melville, or edith wharton, so i want to brand. >> smith: right, well and success. >> borowitz: and success. >> smith: i love it. >> borowitz: it's just -- it'sspersonal, it's not, it's not definitive. >> smith: and yet it says 50 funniest. >> borowitz: it says, well it says -- >> smith: you would be led to believe that it was definitive on the basis of the name. >> orowitz: right, it says the 50 funniest american wriiers. asserisk, according to andy borowitz. >> smith: right.

>> borowitz: so it's actualll truth in advertising. this is just -- >> smith: you're walking back from it beforr you turn the page. >> borowitz: look evan, the book sucks, and think we need to make that very clear [laughter] >> okay. good. >> borowitz: from the ootset. >> smith: i couldn't say that.. you could say that. >> borowitz: no you know what, here's what you get when you're getting the book. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: you're gettingg3 is.indow into what my taste >> smith: good. >> borowitz: now, my taste everybody's taste, but i'll ú&ll you what my taste is. >> smmth: yeah. >> borowiiz: it's eclectic because you have people like mark twain and o'henry and h. l. mencken, but then yoo3 also haveethe new yorker writers like s. j. perelman, and dorothy parker, but then you also have bernieemac and george carlin and you have the onion and you have george saunders and charles portis. it's really all over the map, but it, what it reaaly reflects is, i'm actually a really good audience for comedy. i love to augh. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: i'm not a snob, and i, i like all kinns oo things and so if you pick up this book, i don't think you're going to agree with

all 50, but i think you're going to find a lot to laugh ú&. >> smith: aad in fact no matter who you are, at least yourrtasteewill be reflecced in some corner f this book.ú >> borowitz: exactly. >> smitt: you made the point that mark twain is, you know, mark twain begins the collection. >> borowitz: right. >> smiih: i thiik the interesting to me as the chhices so it -- >> borowitz: well, it was chronological. >> smith: but it begins with mark twain >> borowitz: right. >> smith: and it ends with larry wilmorr. >> borrwitz: right. >> smith: frrm the daily show. >> borowitz: the senior black correspondent. >> smith: for the daily show. >> smith: and i kind of thought how nice to see this range reflected sort of end to end. >> borowitz: and they're similar in a way, because -- larry wrote this book about what it is to be black in america today. it has a great title, t's called "i'd rather we got casinos," and --and the book is, i mean i think mark twain would've loved larry wilmore, you know that's the thing, and i think aatually one other fun thing about the book for me connections between the different writers, for example, s. j. perelman

wrote for the new yorker in the '30s and '40s said that he imitated ring lardner so much that he thought he should be sued for plagiarism, and who did s. ú& perelman influence more than anybody else? woody allen, so all three of them are in the book. >> smith: in the book, >> borowitz: and you kind of get to see this conninuum of american comedy, they're all weirdly and wildly different, and yet, there is all something linking them together. theyyall you know, one enjoyed the other. >> smith: yeah to the new yorker point, let me address that. >> borowitz: okay. >> smith: front on. so you are a long time new yorker contributor. >> borowitz: i am. >> smith: one out of every three or four writers in this book it seems like has a connection back to the new yorker. susan orlean, bud rillin, ian frasier, you kind of go ú&wn the list. bruce mccall. is this a coincidence, or does it just happen that theú only places left these days that's home to that kind of talentt because a lot of these are contemporary people.

>> borowitz: right. well, the names you mention, the one thing ttey all have in common is i've slept with all of them. [laughter] >> smiih: have you? >> borowitz: right. so that was just shot in &-to narrow down on thosed people. but actually you know, i've been asked thii, it's kind of it -- with the new yorker, it's sort of the law of averages. they're the only magazine that has continuously published humor ffom the3 ú&and so if you publish in the history of your publication, woody allen, doroohy parker, james thurber, s. j. &-you mentiooed, you're going to wind up having a few slots on the list. there were some ooher magazines that in their heyday published a lot of great people, for example, national lampoon. >> smith: rrght. >> borowitz: and national lampoon is represented in we have henry beard and the brilliant michhel o'donoghue and a piece i'm realll thhilled to have with s. mentioned and it's great. >> borowitz: yeah, we have a ppece in here that's never been in an anthology beefre,

by a very young john and directee all those great movies in the '80s, -bviously ferris bueller's day off, sixteen candles. just go down the list. hh was a struggling advertising copywriter in chicago, was desperate toú get into comedy writinn, and he submitted thii short story to tte national -ampoon in the late '70s3 called vacation 57, which was this wacky family vacation that went awry. this later became the basis for the chevy chase vacation movies, and his whole entire career now, when you actually read this story and i ug into the national lampoon archives to find it. >> ssith: yeah. >> borowitz: you're reading one of the funniest american short stories ever written. i put it up there with the raasom of red chief by o'henry, which is also in the book. so you have this incredibly story by o'henry that everybody has read in school. the ransom of red chief, and then you ave the very surreal dark, hilarious short story by john hughes that nobody's read. >> smith: i would submit no one has actually seen -- >> borowitz: no one has read it.

it hasn't been in prinn since it came ouu in the national lampoon in around 1977, '78. >> smith: right. >> borowitz: so that was wwat was so cool about my job because i could pick -- >> smith: yeah. but then i could also say wait a minute, iim going to find terrr southern, and peter de -ries and john hughes, and kind of eether fallen off the radar or were never on the adar and put them in, oo. >> smith: you mentioned terry souuhern. terry soothern is onn off3 this, another thing iú thought was interesting, a lot of people with texas connections >> borowitz: yeah. >> smith: on this list. >> borowitz: yeah. >> smith: disprooortionally molly ivins, terry southern, don barthelme. tthre are a handful of people on here and i thouggt that was interesting.ú again that'')s accidental. you didn't -- >> borowitz: it is although -- >> borowitz: it is although i would say what texas has going for it in american comedd, if i can just getta little, dooa littte guess work here. >> smith: okay. >> borowitz: texas hassa real outsider status. texas as many people here know, there are people in texas who consider this sort the rest of the country andm

if, and i think it produces, think has sometimes -- has had that opinion. [laughter] >> smith: has been known to have that opinion. >> borowitzz -- have that pinion. yeah. but i think, i think there are certain regions of the country that create kind of an outsider feeling. i for one maybe i relate to this because i'm from cleveland, ohio and i -- i grew up in the 70s whenú cleveland was really considered in many corners a national joke. our river -- >> smith: the mistake on >> borowitz: yeah, our -- you know which is something thaa sounds like somethhng mark twain would maybe ake up but that was our, when your reality comes in the form of a tonight show joke, uh you know that you're into something special, and -- so, but i think you know, those, you know, those writers you mentioned, i mean terry outhern i mean and, and it's sort of hard to imaaine because a guy who's not really read that much anymore, it's hard to imagine how famous terry southern was.

he was on the cover of the ú&atles' sergeant pepper album; i mean very few people know that. he's the onn guy on the album that you don't know who that guy is. you know james dean and you know marilyn monroe, but you don't know who he is. terry souuhern in his day wrote some best sellers like the magic christian, candy, but he also wrote the screenplay for doctor strangelove. >> smith: right. >> borowitz: so he was one of america's greatest satirists of all time. has really been forgotten. it was so cool, i took a chapter from magic christian which happens to bb myú favorite ameriian comic novel,,and i put that in there, so maybe now like, i reaa that when i was 17 >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: maybe somewhere in america there's a 17 year old who's now going to read that. >> smith: going to read that. >> borowitz: yeah. >> smith: invariably you had more than 50 people you considered or you know >> borowitz: i did. >> smith: more than 50 pieces. so who -- what was 50, what or who was 51, 52, 53, tell us who alloss made the cut that didn't. >> orowitz: well, i actually started with a list of 100 -- &->> borowitz -- nd i went to library of america and said you know i think the book will work best if it') shorter.

so they whittled it down to 50. i found with few exceptions we were in agreement. anthologize who were unquestionably among tte funniest american writers ú&re comic novelists because you know, i mentioned terry southern >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: the magic christian as an easy book to excerpt from because it's very episodic. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: each one of the chapters is like a little prank. &-about, if you had all of the money in the world, and your goallin life was to prove that people will do things just ffr money, this is, it') a series of pranks that this character plays so >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: it excerpted3 well. the people who don't excerpt well are people like joseph heller, caach-22. brilliantly funny book, what are the five pages you're going to pick ut of that - >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz:: - that are going to sell it? -urt vonneggt, same problem. carl hiaasen, donald westlake. these were the people who i would put oo my list and are my literary heroes. >> smith: yeah.

>> borowitz: but you and do the laager works justice. >> smith: what's interesting is, you'vv named a bunch of people who we don't neceesarily think ofú as funny writers. we think of them as greaa writers, and in fact, philip >> borowitz: that's right. >> smith: you know, you don't think of them as, as comedians,,but i guess what they did was funny inclusion. >> borowitz: well, here's -- here is my theory about that. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: i think, i think we tend to piggonhole comedy. i think we always sort of writers and comedd writers. well was chekhov a serious writer or a comedy writer? if you go ee chekhov, and it's perrormed well, here are laughs..3 >> borowitz: chekhov thought he as cracking us up, iú mean i kkow that soundd strange, you know, but the three sisters is supposed to have funnyymoments in itt >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: he cut the fourth sister who was hilarious. >> smith: is that right? [laughter] >> borowitz: but, you know kafka when he wrote metamorphosis; he thought that was going to be a funny book. he, there is, you know we -on't say like, is, is shakespeare all funny or all serious? heewas both and some of the people you mentioned, if you

read gooddye columbus, that's a hilarious book. it's also a very deep book3 by philip roth. >> smith: but funny, funny doesn't have to be shallow. >> borowitz: it doesn't have to be.3 i actually think, you know, there is no more profound american writer than mark twain. i think he is our shakespeare -- >> smith: >> smith: right. >> borowitz: -- because heú writes about humanity in aú way that transcends time or geography, and there are that. very ew writers of the 9th century, who you can pick up and ay wow that still speaks to me. here') a line from mark twain that i came across which may ring true today. he said, "suppose you're an3 idiot. now suppose you're in [laughter] >> smith: as fresh as today's headlines, as they say, right, yeah. >> but that could be a defeat. you know, that's my, and not greatness according to whether or not -- >> borowitz: -- it would fit on twitter. >> smith: right, yeah. >> borowitz: but my point is, and molly ivins, you know who's -- whoos a veryy i consider sort of a conttmporary mark twain because she was writing

aboot very regionnl things, writing abouu texaa politics and yet her sttff ascended to the level of the universal. we would see the scoundrels she wrote aaout, reminded us of scoundrels we knew. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: so, yes, there are people in here like sinccair lewis, langston the list of our wackiest comedians, but they werr capable of writing funny, becauseei maintain if you a good observer of the human condition, i think you can only do that if you alsoú have a sense of humor. i think if you are somehow, your -- your view of humanity involves no laughter whatsoever, then you're probably clinically3 depressed. i mean, because i think mmst artists see both sides and richness to their material and i think even people like auguut frendberg, you know, i mean i think there's comedy even lurking underneath the surface of these terribly dysfuncttonal dramas that he wrote. so i don't -- i tend not pigeonhole and i ú&nd to think what was my response to this?

did ttis make me laugh? and that was my nly criteria. >> smith: are people busting your chops abbut not enough women or not enough hispaaics, are you getting, every time you produce a list, somebody wants to shoot at you for ignoring directlyyor indirectly a group who should be represented? >> borowitz: yes, everyone is saying not enough jews in the book. >> smith: is that right? [laughter] >> borowitz: no, no, no, nn. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: that's never a problem. >> smith: a long-standing problem when you write a comedy. >> borowitz: never a problem in a hhmor anthology. >> mith: yeeh. ú& borowitz: the jews are there. they showed up. but, you know, it's interesting, with women, i thinkkthis anthology and i -- in this anthology han inmen most american humor3 anthologies. whatthappened in america in terms of our literary tradition is that thereú wasn't a lot of comedy even written by women prior to world wa!!!orld war ii. there is ne single exception in this book who is anita loos, who wrote gentlemen prefer blondes, which is such aa iconic book because that kind of created &-dumb blonde who's not o

dumb, like marilyn monroe or reese witherspoon you knnw, in legally blonde, and so she was sort of an exception. she was you know in the 20s and dorothy parker was early, i wish i could've included dawn powell. sheewas on my list of 100. she didn't make it in.3 but more reeently, there aree3 so many women, humorous, who greatest of the last 75 years is nora ephron. not only a great, humorouu essayist, but she wrote one of the best american comic novels of all time, heartburn, and she's obviously you know, the movie, as a movie creator, when harry met sally and sleeeless in seattle -- >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: and on and on and on. but ww also do have you know, some younger, some younger writers who not ú&erybody has read like sloan crosley, who's you know in her 30s and is writing best selling huuor books and veronica gang is in there, susan orlean who's ú&t known as a primarily as a comedy writer, but she has

written humor ffr the new yorker, is represented in there, so, once you ot past world war ii and women start appearing more as comedy writers, and you mentionee wanda sykes. the book becomes much more heavily weighted towards women. so -- >> smith: okay. >> borowitz: -- that's my answer. answer. >> borrwitz: thank you. >> smith: now we have to talk about fake news. >> borowitz: okay. >> smith: so we've talked about the book and i'm going to put the book over here. you are part of what has been a boom n fake news over the last 10 years, whether it's the emergence of jon stewart as a real force in americcn media and american politics.3 >> borowitz: i'm not familiar with him. >> smith: haven't heard of &-[laughter] and tte onion, you know you -- you are all giving us extraordinary material every day, but you're being given extraordinary material. >> borowitt: absolutely. >> smith: isn't that right? ú& borowitz: that's right. >> smith: talk about, this is salad days for people3 like you. >> borowitz: it is well -- you know, i started writing fake news in college in the '70s. i was president of the

harvard lampoon. but even before hat, in high school, i was editor of my high school newspaper and i swearú the onny reason i did that was to put out an april fools issue once a year, full of fake news. so i guess what i'm saying been no growth.r there has [laughter] i've just been doing one thing. >> smith: same thing over anddover. >> borowitz: the same thing with diminishing returns. >> smith: right. >> borowitz: bbt you know, you know, it's a very american thing, i mean we, you know we like to, and ou know it's true in england too, englanddhad that was the week that was, spitting image and ttings like that, but we like to take these ú&ws itself but the way the news is delivered and that's one thing that both jon stewart and stephen colbert and acttally the onioo too, -ll do so brilliantly.ú >> smith: right. >> borowitz: they're not just making fun of the message, they're making fun of the messenger and thht's tremendously fun for me with the borowitz report. i think one of the reasons why it's gotten so popular in thh last 10 years, it has a lot to do not with just the news events, which have beee, as i woold say it,ú target rich environment, you

know, the bush years, you really didn't have to do much to find something funny about -- about that this, this particular election year. you know, look at these -epublican debates and you feel like this field of candidates is verging dangerously close to being a prank. [laughter] it's -- [ applauue ] -- becaase in -- in the past with these debates, if i may can just talk about this just a moment. >> smith: no, no, no, no, -lease. >> borowitz: you know, when you, when you watch the republican debates, it's like watching a sit-com with no main characters and just wacky neighbors, because the -- [laughter] -- the way the debates have been structured in tte past, like let's take 2008 with the, with the demmcrats. >> smmih: yeah. >> borowitz: that was a sit-com, but you had two main characters.3 the main characters were obama and hillary, and they positioneddthemmcenter

stage, and then you had all of these tertiary sort of wacky neighbors like you know dennis kucinich, and what they would do is, the debate was really between those two main characters and eveey now and then they'd cut to like dennis kucinich the way like on laverne and shirley they'd cut to lenny and quiggy you know? and dennis kucinich would say something like, i think we should get rid of the defense department and have the department of flowers, ú&d they'd cut back to hillary and obama. but here with these republican debates, you're just like looking for thhm and you can't find the main characters because everybody -- rrn paul is saying like we could pay for the entire country with a dime and yoo know and then you have you know, rick perry just ssys we should execute everybody and you know if we don't, you know if we don't get rid of social securityythere won't be enough money to execute our children's childrenn-- [laughter] -- and, you kkow, thinks that libya is n asia andd you knnw, it's just so &-this creates a very target

rich environmentt but the other thing that's beenni think good for all of these various fake news operations is that the actual media has lost all credibility. the cable news and lot of the newspaperr have really lost credibility. writing off a lot of the actual news stories..3 they're looking at jon stewart because they think, you know like in a court, inn3 a king's courtt the jester seems to be ttlling the truth, ike in king -- ú&ng lear or something so -- -> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: jon stewart by default is becoming like walter cronkite now, he's the most trusted man in america. >> smith: right. well the reality s a lot of people these days do get ú&eir news from jon stewart and stephen colberr most days is not a bad place. >> borowitz: well and yoo know what? they're not. this is another kind of misnomer. they're noo really doinn fake news. jon stewart is actually showing the aatual events. >> mith: he's showing real news.ú >> borowwtz: he is analyzing it. he just, he just happens to beemaking it funny. &->> borowitz: it's a fuuny

presentation of the news. >> smith: right. >> borowitz: but you're hour of the jon stewart show including his interviews which i think are very good, you're getting more real watching, yoo know, thh situation room with wolf blitzer, you know, where ú&'s standing up in front of all those tvs like he's a salesman in a beet buy -howroom, you know? enough, it's, it's the networks it's the cable news networks that are the real clowns now and the ones that we laugh at. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: and jon stewart >> smith: it also seems interesting to me, that all of you guys, i lump you all into the same category here, will takeethings that seem very serious and horrible and somehow, hummr is the thing that gets us through. this is not the best example of that but i noticed the other day that you, aa least gadhafi killed by the zanesville, ohio. >> borowitz: well, yeah. it was a, it was an unfortunate, it was an under covered story. you know we, you know as -sual i had to find the ú&al, the real story behind it. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz: that was, wwll -ou know, i'll g

give some examples of some situattons you know, the um, katriia was an example of something that doesn't seem funny at all. >> smith: not funny, right. >> borowitz: a huge loss of life, property, everything, ú&d yet our govvrnment's inept handling of katrrna was darkly very, very funnn, great story about national guardsmen giving local residents in nnw orleans, umú help on, you know, advice on how to evacuate tteir homes from their telephones in iraq where they were stationed. >> smith: yeah. >> borowitz::which was a dark, a really dark observation, but it was, it was brilliant the way they handled it because it was, it was showing how innredibly dysfunctional-- >> smith: yeah. >> borowwtz: our government was. i think one of the weird ironies of satire is thatt what's bad news for the world is great material for us. and ii's a kind of, it's kind of a fortunate thing because, you're right, being, if we have the two options of are we going to laugh or are we going to cry? laughter is much, much healthier. >> smith: might as well llugh.ú >> borowitz: we ight as

well laugh, and so it's a cool thing in america especially, we have this rich tradition of satire,,3 when things get really bad; and exciting >> smith: right. >> borowitz: and that helps things are.h how terrible so that, that is kind of a -- it's fun to be a part of that. i am never happier thaa when somebody writes and says you kkow "my dad was in the hospital and he, you know, he really neededdcheerinn -p, and he got that you -- that comment you wrrte or that tweet, and that really cheered him up. i'm not, i don't consider myself aa you know, i'm not doing community service here, let's not kid ourselves >> smith: right that's gratifying >> smith: sure. >> borowitz: because laughter is a precious commodity. >> mith: it's a perfect note to end on. i'm afraid we're out of time. this has been terrific. >> borowitz: thanks a lot. >> smith: i appreciate you. -- i appreciate yyu coming in. the book is great and we'll -- we'll all be -> borowitz: thanks a lot &->> smith: thanks andy borowitz, very much. [ applause ]

period f time >> funding for overheard wiih evan smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health ccre consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the mattson mccale public televisioo. and also by mfi foundation, improving the quality of lifeewithin our community. and also by the alice kleberg rrynolds foundation aad viewwrr like you. thank you.