>> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health care consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the mattson mchale foundation in support of public television. and also by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and also by the alice kleberg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you. >> i am evan smith. she's an emmy nominated actress and comedianne whose credits include never been kissed, the grinch who stole christmas, cat and kim and saturday night live where she spent six years as a cast member. her first book has just been published. she's molly shannon. this is overheard.

♪ >> smith: molly shannon, welcome. >> shannon: thank you. >> smith: it's really nice to have you here. >> shannon: well, it's so nice to be here. >> smith: congratulations on the book. >> shannon: thank you. >> smith: very exciting for you. >> shannon: thanks, yes, it is, it is exciting. >> smith: first book. >> shannon: mm hmm. >> smith: so not just first children's book, but first book, period. >> shannon: yeah, first book. >> smith: so why, why a book and why this book, specifically? >> shannon: well, i -- i did have in the back of my mind that i wanted to write a children's book, but i wanted to wait until i actually had kids, so i could -- >> smith: good idea. >> shannon: yeah good idea. >> smith: focus group. >> shannon: yeah, yeah. so i have a, excuse me, eight year old girl and a six and half year old boy, stella

and nolan, and my husband and i read books to them every night before they're going to bed, but then sometimes they like when i make up stories. and i would tell them this one story about this irish family called the malones with 10 kids and they loved it, so they would keep saying "tell us another malone story," you know, and i would run out of stories but it became good practice for me because i'd have to make up these stories >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: orally, so it ended that the kids love the part of the malone story where the brothers and sisters are playing tricks on one another, so i thought oh this could be good for a book, because they would, really responded to that. >> smith: right. >> shannon: so basically i just made it less crowded and just focused on the one little girl >> smith: right. >> shannon: who plays chess. >> smith: and the plot in quotes, because it's a children's book and it goes by very quickly, but the plot is this is a girl who plays tricks on everybody and then the tables are turned on her. >> shannon: exactly. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: then her family plays a trick on her. >> smith: right. well, it's a really sweet book, it's you know >> shannon: thank you. >> smith: it seems, i mean this in the best way, it feels like a book written by someone who's done this for a long time, not. >> shannon: oh that's good. >> smith: by someone who's actually just done this for the first time, and >> shannon: that's good. >> smith: and with these kinds of books, if you're parents of small children, you know you need books like

this; they occupy those kids for lots of time. >> shannon: you do, and because i read to them every night, i don't like the ones that are, you know when you're reading like a bunch of like six, six books before you go to bed. i didn't like the ones where there was so much text, where you get kind of horse and you -- >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: some parents skip. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: like they skip words and see if the kid doesn't notice >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: so i wrote it in a way that's easy to read. >> smith: you did that also? good. >> shannon: yeah! yeah i do that sometimes. >> smith: yeah! >> shannon: because someone was like -- i'm getting a little hoarse. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: but, yeah, and as a performer and as a comedian, i like stuff that you can perform, and i like the way things sound >> smith: right. >> shannon: so i wrote it in a way, when i was writing it, i would read it out loud >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: so that it sounded like it had a beat to it. >> smith: do stella and nolan give you notes on this? you know, when you're writing the book, they said, well, that's good, but you maybe ought to do it this way. >> shannon: no not really but, they...my daughter, i did show her some illustrations because there was like a version when you first see her bedroom, so there were two different versions of that >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: and i would ask her which one do you like better, do you like this one, there was one where she's like jumping on her bed, and there's one where she's like digging through

her clothes, and she's was like, i like this one. so you know like that i take seriously. my daughter's super creative and artistic and she loves books, so, you know she's the audience, so i would ask her, and then i put certain things in there for my boy because he loves , like, action and so -- >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: he happens to like, there's like this thing where the dog slips in water and crashes into the table and everything goes crazy. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: he loves that part, so i wrote stuff that i know, boys like this stuff, girls because i wanted it to be for everybody. >> smith: well, i think that's interesting because it is the protagonists; again i use that word in quotes. >> shannon: well, i like that. >> smith: protagonist... >> shannon: sounds very fancy. >> smith: is a girl, and yet >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: it's obviously you know we know with these children's books you want to try to get as big an audience as possible. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: and every kid to want to read it, and so boys have to find something that they'll like in it. >> shannon: exactly. yeah. >> smith: that's great. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: yeah. how has it been being on the road? i know you've been all over the country with this book. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: how has that differed from the times that you've been around the country for your acting or for your comedy? what...what... >> shannon: i know that's interesting. >> smith: what's the difference? >> shannon: it's, it is a really whole new world because i don't do this so much like if you're promoting a movie or

whatever, you don't necessarily go city to city, so it is different because you're really, you're doing more of that than you would with a movie or something but and then speaking a lot about how you wrote it >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: which at first, i was like what? like i think the first stop i had was the american library association and i had to speak to like a thousand librarians for 60 minutes and i was like a thousand librarians for 60 minutes? what!!?? you know, i was like, it sounds so serious. >> smith: yeah it does. >> shannon: but it has ended up being really fun. >> smith: what did you talk about for 60 minutes? >> shannon: i ended up talking about just, just kind of like what we're talking about here... >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: what inspired me to write a book, saturday night live, creating characters >> smith: right. >> shannon: whether it's for literature or it's saturday night live >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: the difference between the two, so yeah. but i've had such a good time because i like, i like talking to people, and meeting, i like traveling >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: so it's been really fun. >> smith: i suspect that it's the case that a lot of people come out to see you knowing that you've written this book, but they're really coming out to see molly shannon from saturday night live, or molly shannon from the movies. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: do you mind that? >> shannon: i don't mind that at all. >> smith: yeah.

>> shannon: because i worked really hard to, to create that, and i feel like i'm able to write a book because of what i've built, so i love it, and i'm a very, i think there's some people that go into show business and they're not, they're shy or reserved and they don't like it, but i'm very outgoing and i like people so i feel like i'm in the right profession. >> smith: right. >> shannon: i really enjoy... >> smith: so whatever reason they come out to see you, that's... >> shannon: oh my god, i love it. >> smith: that's terrific. >> shannon: yeah, yeah. >> smith: let me ask you about some of what you did previously. >> shannon: mm hmm. >> smith: not to...i mean it's... >> shannon: oh no, please. >> smith: the book is wonderful and i think that there are actually things that we're going to talk about that relate back to this for instance creating characters. you know you spent six years on a television program and that required you to create characters. maybe in fact you came to the table of the some of the cast members over the years have with characters already baked in. >> shannon: yes. >> smith: right. but you spent a lot of time in the world of creating characters. would you talk about that, your process in thinking about that? >> shannon: sure. well, before i got to saturday night live i was a struggling actress in la and i was working in restaurants and i was a hostess, i was a waitress, and i was always broke. i went out to la, i

went to new york university for drama school, and then after that i decided to move to la and i had no money and i would take cash advances on my credit card and, and i remember when i got out there, i had to rent a car but i didn't have any money, so i rented, i called this company called rent a wreck and i drove a junky car, you know, but basically my friend and i went out there, we thought we really want to do, develop a comedy show, and that's what we were going to do, a comedy show. so me and my friend gene pack went out together, and we didn't know anybody, we just got a, rented like a dumpy apartment in hollywood and i would, i would drive up to sunset boulevard and literally go door to door and like -- >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: slide my headshot under the door, and then i started developing this comedy show. i took classes at second city, they offered improv classes and in those classes, i ended up meeting actors and comedians and i met this guy rob mueller who i still work with now. we're actually writing a movie together, and rob was like you know comedy is, comedy is everything. comedy is king. but i like had come from drama school >> smith: right. >> shannon: where i was

doing very serious dramatic monologues and i'm very serious about my acting. so i was like is that right, is comedy king? and he was like yeah comedy is king. so i was like okay, so basically we just, rob and i got together and started meeting in my apartment at like four o'clock, like three times a week and we started creating a show, just in my living room. we would just, and then we got a couple other people from our, from our improv class in, like three or four other people, and we would just improvise and make up sketches and do little exercises where we'd make upter. and we ended up putting this show together called the rob and molly show, and we did it, you know, like once a month or something and it was like an hour-long show, and in that show i created all these characters like sally o'malley, characters that i ended up bringing to saturday night live. >> smith: to saturday night live. right. yeah. >> shannon: yeah. and mary catherine gallagher came from nyu. that was the character; i was in a comedy show with adam sandler. he was in my class at nyu, and it was a, they had auditions for this show called the follies, which is a show

where we would make fun of the teachers. >> smith: yes. >> shannon: and i got cast in that. and i remember we did an exercise where you just have to come through the door and introduce yourself and make up a character. don't think about it. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: and so i walked through the door and i went, hi i'm mary catherine gallonler! and then i just would improvise it and they ended up loving that character. and basically it was an exaggerated version of myself. it was kind of how i felt really nervous and physical. and so they ended up building the whole show around that character at nyu. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: but at the time it was different, i wore red pants and a red blazer and i was really nervous and i didn't have glasses and i think in the sketch comedy i had murdered someone, i was like a murderer, and it was in a black box theater, similar to this, but -- >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: much smaller, and it was like a big hit on the campus. so basically i really learned from that live performance of like, wow, people, i really got to, to learn my comedy and realize like, because i was performing it all the time, i got to know what was funny. so basically when i went to la, i put mary catherine gallagher in that

stage show. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: in the rob and molly show, and then i put sally o'malley in that show and then, i'm trying to think of what other characters, that was about it, i did, i did other sketches, but basically we did that show for years and i got agents and managers from that show. and i also eventually, and i would use my own waitressing money to produce the show like i, because i would, i want to make it fun and i had a little band and i would, you know we'd have drinks for everybody. and basically if somebody couldn't afford a ticket, i would buy it for them, because i felt like the money will come back to you. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: i was really into creative visualization >> smith: yeah, yeah. yeah. >> shannon: and -- >> smith: you make it sound so hard though. >> shannon: it was. >> smith: i mean it sounds like fun but it also sounds hard and i guess this is a version of the story that a lot of people starting out have. >> shannon: okay. >> smith: you really got to make it happen. >> shannon: you have to make it happen. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: it was hard. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: because a lot of times i didn't have that much money and i had to pay the band and i'd think you know the money's going to come back, the money's going to come back. so before we'd do shows, i would cold call like 500 people like, "we're doing a show monday, you've got to come. are you going to come? okay great! bye! come, you know i would just call, call, call, and i had

this box of names and i would get from my restaurant customers -- i'd go, give me your name and number; i'll invite you to my show. i would invite homeless people, my dentist. i told everybody about the show. so the show would get packed and it'd became like kind of this big thing. but i would say -- so i did it like once once every two months for a couple of years and then eventually i was like, i got kind of burned out because i -- there were always -- my goal was if just one business person would come to our show, then i'll be good and maybe this can get me somewhere. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: but after a while i was feeling a little discouraged because i was auditioning and i wasn't really getting a break and i remember seeing this casting director -- i was like almost 30 and she was like you've been around. she was like you need a break, and i was like, i know. and then it turned out that snl was looking for people and marci klein flew in and my manager said marci klein's coming in from saturday night live. can you set up a show? and i had not done a show for a year and i was like alright.

so i got the musicians, packed the house and she came and she, the show was great. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: we packed the house, did all the characters, and she was like, you're coming to audition for saturday night live. and i was like yes! >> smith: great. >> shannon: and so they flew me to new york and i got to audition for snl at this little comedy club called, it was like a stand up club and basically i had five minutes to do characters, and there were all these girls that they'd flown in and i also flew in my comedy partner rob mueller to perform with me. and it was very nerve wracking like we're all waiting backstage and the girls and i brought costumes and wigs and the other girls were like you brought wigs? i didn't brought wigs. she brought wigs. it was a very like kind of nervous atmosphere, and i just thought, i felt so lucky that i was just even at that point where i was getting asked to audition. i was like, just enjoy it. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: and i wasn't... i felt really calm about it. and i remember going in front of the audience, and these people were truth, they were expecting stand up, so they were not laughing at all and i just remember like doing my first character and then feeling like oh god i'm tanking, but i just thought you know what, i'm just going to commit as an actress, and

lorne michaels was in the audience, chris farley was there, because he was a cast member currently. jim downey, there were all these people, and i remember turning around thinking oh god i'm bombing and i went to go put on my glasses, and i just really slowly put on the glasses and just thought, just commit, like who cares if they're not laughing, just be a good actress and commit to the characters. and then it got you know, it slowly like people were laughing and it went better and better and then i did get asked to be on the show, and it changed my life, it was so fantastic >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: and i took that box of names and phone numbers from my show, i threw it in the dumpster, i was like, i don't have to ever to call anybody... >> smith: ever again. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: i'm done! >> shannon: yeah and then i remember when i, when i did my first show, george clooney was the host and you know it has that big band every night, and i'm like this is fantastic, i don't have to pay for the band, you know. [ laughter ] >> smith: people showed up on their own. >> shannon: yeah. millions of people. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: so i went from 500 to like millions. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: it was very surreal. and because, because i struggled for so long and i did not have a break easily at all, it was kind of looking like i wasn't, it wasn't going to

happen, but i remember thinking, i remember feeling so dark like god this isn't working, before i got on snl, a friend of mine got like a part on charles in charge, and i was like, how come he gets a part on charles in charge and i can't get anything? and i went running and i yelled to god, i was like that's not fair! i wish i was on charles in charge! but during that run i remember thinking like, at least i'm out here in la. i had come from cleveland -- >> shannon: pursuing what i want, and i thought at least i'm doing that, that's half the battle because i knew so many kids from home that just didn't really do what they wanted, they stayed at home, and i thought at least i'm heading for what i want. like that's a meaningful life. and so even if i don't make it. >> smith: right. even if nothing works out. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: right. >> shannon: and then i really did believe that, spiritually and i still have that same philosophy and so i was really at peace with it. like, do you know what? i'll just, this is what i love and i'm just going to keep trying until i'm really old, so... >> smith: and then i'll die alone... >> shannon: yes exactly. with no money, begging. >> smith: not heading in a good direction. >> shannon: yeah, yeah, yeah, but basically yes, snl was amazing. >> smith: you know you hear

a lot you hear a lot about snl over the years from people who have been in the cast and leave, and they say oh, it was hard. women will say you were for a while, the longest serving woman cast member until >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: the... >> shannon: not anymore. >> smith: not anymore, but you were there. you succeeded i think victoria jackson as being on the show for the, for the longest of any woman, and you hear well, it's not a very good environment for women, or it's not as good as it used to be. you know, you hear all those things. do you have good thoughts about it, looking back? because it's been now 10 years, right? >> shannon: yeah since i left, yeah. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: oh yeah i have such good feelings about it. that was not true in my experience at all, i mean i think the show went through lulls where women weren't as strong, like right before i got there, it was not you know, it had been a while since jan hooks and nora dunn and victoria jackson, so there was like a big, like a big lull there. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: so by the time cheri and i came it was like, kind of like the resurrection, oh wow, girls can... i remember the new york times did an article on cheri and i because we did a leg up, and it was kind of like wow, girls are scoring. so i remember hearing that but i was like i'm going to

change that. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: you know i really felt like we got stuff for, i got stuff i want to get on the air. >> smith: well, you also became an iconic member of the cast because those characters we've talked about >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: mary catherine gallagher and you know honestly the fact that there's a ben and jerry's schweddy balls flavor now tells you, right? tells you how this stuff has a long life. >> shannon: yes it's so true. >> smith: so obviously your experience there, it really huge moment, maybe the biggest moment in your career. >> shannon: yes. people don't know that it's a, it is a really hard job, though, because you have to write yourself into the show. it's not like you just hang around. >> smith: yeah would you talk about that? i don't think people fully. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: appreciate how responsible you were for your own time on the show. >> shannon: yeah, it's a writing, it's a writing job. >> smith: right. >> shannon: and i had you know -- i had written my show, but i would kind of write it orally. i would, i would work on it in my head and kind of write the beats and walk around the block and, then i'd do it in front of the audience and, okay they like, or they like that, that didn't work, i kind of edited it in my head and just perform it and learn it orally. so i went to snl, i was

like, oh my god, they're were a lot of people from. they'd be typing and i was like i have characters but i just had to figure out how to get them on the page, and it was terrifying. i remember like, oh, crying and feeling like the job was over my head, but i met this one writer, steve koren, who i'm still really close to. and he goes, well, tell me what did you do in your show, just tell me how. oh, i had a picture of mary catherine gallagher and i showed all the writers. i go, i did this character in my stage show, you know do you think i could? and they go well what is it? and i go, well, she does this like...they would go...i'd write a little out and they'd go, yeah, the reason that's not going to work is because of this and that's not going to work because of this and this and, you know, i was like, god it was so frustrating. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: but then this one guy steve koren was like, sat down with me and he goes, tell me what you do with your show. and i go, okay. well, i come out and i go, i'm mary catherine gallagher and then i go like this, then go like that, then i go like that, then i do that that that that, and he basically just, we wrote it out together. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: and it was the first sketch that i kind of got on, and it killed. it went great. and i remember gabriel byrne was the host and i don't know if they knew what it was going to be.

i think they didn't, maybe they didn't really believe in it because basically on saturday, the dress rehearsal before the live show, they kind of order the live show they put at the top of the rehearsal what they think is going to be like the hits, and then the stuff that might get, that might not make it to air, they put at the bottom, and i remember my thing was for the rehearsal on saturday was way at the bottom, they didn't even have time to go to rehearse it. they were like, sorry it's lunch, good luck. and i was so mad and it was, it was way at the bottom of the show for dress rehearsal, it made me so mad i just felt like they're not, i don't think they know what this is going to be like. how physical it's going to be. so they kind of -- i kind of -- so basically during the dress rehearsal, it went great. i just went crazy and knocked into chairs and performed it, and will farrell was in it and it got -- and then basically what happens is you do the dress rehearsal at eight o'clock and then you don't know what's going to get on air, you're kind of trying out your sketches. and then at eleven o'clock you go in lorne michael's office and you look on this board and see what sketches made it, and there'll be a lot that will be cut like four or five. >> smith: right, right. >> shannon: so it's like seeing if you're cast in a play. so you go in your costume

from dress rehearsal, like say you did a cupcake sketch and you would go into lorne's office in your cupcake, and you could feel, you're like, oh, my cupcake sketch got cut, so you see people like in the costumes with like tears running down their eyes, you know. [ laughter ] but basically my mary catherine gallagher got moved from the bottom to the top and i was like yes! >> smith: great, great. >> shannon: and i went out there and it went great and then so many people responded to it, so that was really what gave me confidence, so like i've got these characters, i've just got to figure out how to get the characters from my show on air. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: but like i said, you had to write yourself a spot to get on, otherwise you could just be playing like a nurse, like excuse me mr. walker, your appointment, the doctor is ready to see you. that's all you would be doing. yeah. >> smith: one line in somebody else's sketch. >> shannon: so basically if you see a woman doing their own thing, that woman probably created that. the political stuff is written by writers, but original characters that performer is creating that for themselves. >> smith: i remember listening to jon lovitz talk about the liar. >> shannon: oh yeah. >> smith: similar situation

where he brought it from i guess it was the groundlings >> shannon: the groundlings, yeah, right. >> smith: and he brought it with him and he had to do the same process of selling it to the writers and then eventually it came on. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: and i guess it must be really rewarding for you, to see this thing that you created back at nyu become maybe the most iconic or defining character of your career. >> shannon: it's crazy, yeah. and people that knew that, saw that it at nyu or on my stage, they're like oh my god because they had seen that coming. >> smith: the old version, right. >> shannon: and develop. yeah, yeah. >> smith: how did it become so physical? you talked about throwing yourself into stuff. that, those physical ones are always so jarring and so funny when you see them happen. did you come up with all the aspects of that character? >> shannon: i did, yeah, and actually -- >> smith: the armpits >> shannon: everything. >> smith: the throwing yourself into stuff? >> shannon: everything, yep, yep. that was all from my stage show. and actually my stage show was crazier. it was like even wilder. like i used to climb walls and get stuck and bleed and it was crazy. [ laughter ] so during snl, i had to control it more because i couldn't just go running. i would go into the audience during my stage show and talk to people and it was a very crazy and super

physical and wild, but as as far as her being a catholic school girl, i think we changed that for gabriel byrne because he was the host, so i was going to be a little catholic student and my skirt.. >> smith: and he was a priest. >> shannon: he was a priest,, yeah, and i was like auditioning, i was auditioning which i had done in my show. my show was auditioning, but, yeah, i guess she, we just made her a catholic school girl. and i remember the skirt was kind of long and lorne michaels came in during the dress rehearsal and he was like maybe you should just shorten that skirt a little, you know just shorten it, which was a really good idea. >> smith: yeah, it was. >> shannon: because, so yes, so lorne -- i think lorne really knew that it was going to be different. >> smith: do you feel good about him? looking back. >> shannon: oh my good. he is fantastic. >> smith: because again you know that he's this figure of great mystery. people think about him and say god he's tough to work for, was he a jerk? was he great? >> shannon: oh no, he was great. >> smith: you love him. >> shannon: yeah, i really love him. he's very loyal. he's really intelligent and deep thinking and, i mean, he's the most amazing producer in television. he's the best, he's so smart and just a really good person. and we're very close. >> smith: and responsible for a lot of careers.

>> shannon: oh my god, he's the best. >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: he's the greatest. and he -- i think it's hard though because so many people need stuff from him and everybody wants approval from him and it's a hard position to be in, but he handles it all so well. >> smith: yeah. we have about five minutes. i want to ask you about these last 10 years because you know; it is always interesting to see how the people who hit it big on that show. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: spin their careers forward. >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: you've obviously done the book, which we're celebrating today, but beyond that you've done a lot of television, a bunch of movies, you're not done doing those things, you're doing -- i think you're >> smith: i think you're going to be a part of this up all night program, is that right? >> shannon: oh, yeah, i'm going to be on up all night on nbc with maya, that's lorne's -- >> smith: this is the. >> shannon: --show. >> smith: maya rudolph and -- >> shannon: and christina applegate, yep, and i'm also doing this show called the middle with patricia heaton and i'm also doing an animated movie right now with adam sandler that i just started recording, and adam is the best. and then i'm going to dc tomorrow to speak. will farrell's getting a mark twain prize. so i'm going to give him a speech for that. >> smith: oh, great. >> shannon: he's -- he and i are so really close. he is the best. and then i'm writing a comedy movie for women.

i can't -- it's -- the deal is not officially done, so i can't say what it is, but it's going great and -- >> smith: well, and, given the success of bridesmaids; i think we can accept the fact that women do go see comedy movies and that their movies targeting women as opposed to men are perfectly fine, right? >> shannon: exactly. >> smith: we can accept that. >> shannon: oh, my god, yeah. >> smith: but the point of all this is to say that you haven't stopped. you're not, you're not retired, you're not you know -- like when you go off that program, some people seem to not be as active in show business, but you continue >> shannon: it's hard. oh, that's so nice. >> smith: to be, yeah. >> shannon: and actually you know what's funny, my life has changed because i have kids and my life really is centered around them, like i'm not willing to kill myself the way i did before i had kids where i would just work, work, work, work. i really do want it. i love being a mom and so i hold back, definitely a little because i really love being with the kids and being able to pick them up at school, so i definitely do stuff around being a mom. >> smith: right. >> shannon: being a mom is my number one... >> smith: how did they feel about you being you? i mean, they must be...neither of your children was alive when you were on saturday night live. >> shannon: no, they don't know anything about...

>> smith: but you must be out with them as a mom >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: and they see other people like point at you or come up to you and say, you , you know -- >> shannon: yes, they do. >> smith: smell your armpits. >> shannon: they do. they're like, what? yeah. i remember my daughter when they were little, they didn't know what was going on, but then as my daughter started to get older, i remember we were at a broadway show and somebody like handed me a playbill and like.and she's like what are these people talking to you, what do they all wants? >> smith: yeah. >> shannon: and now she, it's a little annoying. like i don't mind if i'm by myself, but when i'm with them, i'm more, i'm very sensitive to it. so my daughter, the other day said to me, she goes mommy, you know when people, like if they call out your name, she was like, you should just ignore them. pretend like you can't hear them. [ laughter ] >> smith: great. pretend your deaf. that's it. >> shannon: yeah, she gets kind of annoyed. >> smith: that works. >> shannon: but i'm very sensitive to it because i don't like, i feel like this is their time, this is about them. >> smith: right. >> shannon: so... >> smith: we're entitled to a personal life, i mean, that's, you know. >> shannon: yeah, it's completely different if i'm alone, then i'm like really friendly, but if i'm with them, i keep it quick, i'm like hey, thank you. you know? will and i always talk about that because... >> smith: i bet he gets that a little bit. >> shannon: oh my god!

i don't think he takes pictures like if he's with his kids because he's like you know, it's, then it's all about... >> smith: right. >> shannon: it's just very awkward, so it's a little bit of a hard thing. so i've shown them some stuff, but i try not to, but then you have to tell them about it, but i just try to include her in all of it like did you -- like if -- does that bother you if people come up to me and how do you feel about that, and how to include her? and she's like, well, it doesn't bother me if i have like a friend with me, but sometimes it's annoying if it's just -- you know, so i'll just try to talk to her about it and include them and kind of like that. but i'm not like; i don't really, oh mommy is an actress. [ laughter ] like this, you know. i get worried about like you know. it's a weird. >> smith: it would be interesting, i guess, if you are that age, but -- >> shannon: yeah. >> smith: well, it's just a pleasure to meet you, you know. you couldn't be any nicer. just as you seem on television and in the movies, so i thank you very much for that, and i'm really happy for you. this is a great book and i hope everybody buys it. >> shannon: thank you. >> smith: and good luck with everything you're doing. >> shannon: thank you so much. >> smith: molly shannon, thank you very much. [ applause ]

>> funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by hillco partners, texas government affairs consultancy and its global health care consulting business unit, hillco health. and by the mattson mchale foundation in support of public television. and also by mfi foundation, improving the quality of life within our community. and also by the alice kleberg reynolds foundation and viewers like you. thank you.