from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original! for over two decades, the sharpest

issue one, afghanistan end game? >> it is a great honor to welcome my friend and partner, prime minister david cameron, the leadership of the united states and the united kingdom is more important than ever. our alliance is a foundation, not only for the security and prosperity of our two nations, but for international peace and security as well. >> the relationship between britain and the america is the strongest it's ever been, and i believe that's because we're working together osely as at any point in our hit re.

>> joint press conference, this question was put to prime minister cameron by one of rupe regarding afghanistan. >> why do you think it is that people feel that you talk a good game, but they don't buy it? why do you think the british american people look at a situation that they think is frankly a mess, they see terrible sacrifice, they see two men who are unable to impose their wills, and they just are çnot persuade i by yo argument? compare where we are today with where we've been two, three years ago, the situation is considerably improved. the level of insurgents attacks are right down. the level of security is right up. and it's basketball very hard work. the sacrifices have been very great. but i think what we're trying to do by the end of 2014 is achievable and do what aboutable. >> what they're trying to do by the end of 2014 is bring combat

troops home. mr. cameron believes by then afghanistan will be able to police itself. >> with the afghan government capable of taking care of their own security in a way that doesn't require large numbers of foreign troops and that country isn't a threat in the way it was in the past in terms of base for terrorism. >> but a series of horrors have increased nato-afghan tensions, and upped political pressure on the two leaders to end the war. item, army kill team that took body parts item, the photos of s. marines urinating on the bodies of dead taliban snipers, photos that went viral on the internet. item, the accidental burj of of e koran at a u.s. base that brought afghans to the street. six u.s. soldiers were shot and killed as a result. item, this past sunday the massacre by a u.s. sergeant of

16 afghan civilians, nine children, three women, four men. afghan president karzai calls the slaying "impossible to forgive." question, are the british still committed to the timetable set in the 2010 lisbon agreement to keep troops in afghanistan until the end of 2014? >> job, the british are committed to keep troops there, as long as we keep our troops there. we are coming out together. my guess is we're going to be coming out a bit earlier because of what you the shooting of american officers in the ministries. you've got the mass customer and all of thatches the support for the war in the united states is collapsed or is collapsing, it also is in afghanistan. the hostility is growing. i think everybody realizes the -- you can't sustain a war that the country doesn't want. the problem is, i think, what will come is this will collapse

after we leave, but it will be in obama's next term or romney or santorum's first term, and the real disaster i think comes in in that once the islamic extremists take over kabul, they'll begin to move i think to take over pakistan and aid resistance there. when pakistan falls, if it's got nuclear weapons, you've really got problems. >> that's a lot of if's, and they're all pretty gloomy. but i don't think you necessarily have to spin it forward into that entirely negative outlook. >> quite a -- >> right, exactly. now we've got the taliban taking over pakistan and using nuclear weapons, and pat has that done in 35 seconds. pretty good! i think cameron sure sounded committed to the mission, and i think these two leaders went out of their way to reinforce each other's leadership. they feel the weight of history going back to fdr and churchill and reagan even bush and blare. but what the british have gone

true some tough moments with afghanistan as well. they had the single biggest loss of life six -- british soldiers died just 10 days or so ago. and the british public, that reawake end their hatred of this war. so cameron is dealing with the same pressures that obama is. karzai will be in chicago when nato meets there in may. they'll probably be some reevaluation of the mission, but the essential question is, do we really need a thunder thousand troops there for another couple years when there are no al-qaeda lethe country, and notion we're going to somehow conquer the taliban who live in afghanistan, that's not going to happen. and so there are some serious rethinking. but right now they're stick to the timetable of withdrawal. >> put that in writing and send it to barack? >> i think he's gotten the message. >> okay. afghanistan, let's look at this polling. brits, 73%. say the afghanistan war is

unwinnable. americans, 60% say it's not worth the cost. welcome, susan. what are your thoughts? >> i agree with what eleanor and pat were saying. afghanistan is a mess, but i think if you look had that polling number, that is going to govern the speed in which we pull the troops out. think the public opinion will drive this especially with it being an election year. i wouldn't be surprised if we're out of there sooner, not just because of polling numbers but because you look at the package you just showed, horrible events, unfortunately probably not the last tragedy we'll see in afghanistan. and that too will really push the -- both governments to get troops out faster. >> how soon do you think it could be? not before the elections. >> it can't. >> 20,000 coming out by september, and they're talking about another 20,000 next year and end to combat operations in 2013. >> and you're not going to hear the republicans complaining that's too fair. >> question is they're right

between up and opinions between obama and -- and the prime minister of the uk. >> if there are -- if there is any daylight you'll never see if in public. they're both -- they get along well, trying to reinforce each over's position in what is almost a totally indefensible and untenable position, and -- the worst is karzai has said american troops cannot go out and fight in the countryside and have to pull back, which means what is our mission there? >> how about if a strike against iran? >> who stands the stronger against that? >> i don't think the british at this stage of the game are standing strongly for a strike. >> my note here is that cameron- obama -- cameron takes the position there's no justification israel to strike iran. he says the u.k. will not support israeli action. do you think obama is taking that position too? >> i don't want to -- since i don't know what obama is saying

privately as compared to publicly -- >> you mean more than you're saying? >> of course. that's -- we all speak on these issues. who knows. i think what obama has said is that it is unseptember able that iran has nuclear weapons and the question is, what will we do about it and when will he do it? that's not clear. and the question -- the israelis say it's unacceptable for the i iranians to i have a nuclear capability, which is a ving the nuclear weapons. so they have a different assessment of the risks. but the israelis it's a risk, for the united states it's a political risk. >> on, the united states, obama does not want the israelis to launch a preemptive strig would you draw us into war. but he's not going to say something like that and told -- netanyahu that we don't want it done, and the real question is, is obama committed to take the united states to war in the

event these negotiations really don't go anywhere? but iran still does not have a bomb. they have what mort calls capability which they have now. they've got a -- they can refine the uranium, they can do it over a period of time, but they just don't have the absolute ability to build a bomb. >> in that press conference in the roads garden this week, the president said the window for diplomacy for stalling this problem is shrinking, and he was speaking to the iranians as much as anyone else. and david cameron said everything is on the table. he repeated that line, which i thought was quite a strong statement because -- british are very opposed to israel. >> you want to pit out obama is really sending a bad example because he is mixing his metaphors. he says the window is shrinking, shrinking is a term of laundering. >> you can't -- >> because i think the iranians will get it, whatever metaphor

he used. >> you can't launch a war against iran without -- look at the build-up we had to go to war against iraq, which is a country one-third as strong, one-third as large as iran to go to war he has to bring shipments and planes and troops and everything! >> we're shrinking the military right now. >> exactly. >> the end date that obama has posed by çthe end of 2014, that's too late for the brits. the brits will start moving earlier. would you agree? >> are you saying moving troops out of afghanistan? >> yes, sure. >> look at the number you just showed. >> they had [overlapping speakers] pgh >> we have -- >> at 73% of the brits the war cannot be won. >> no,. >> and so do -- i don't know what the specific poll numbers are in the united states. but i'm sure over 60% in the united states oppose this war. >> exit question, what is the state of angelo-american relationship? still oh, so special? very special, pat? >> it is special, john. but the inequality between us

has never been greater. when it was churchill and fdr, there was a measure of equality, even factor in reagan but even now there are almost a minor partner. >> that's an interesting point. very interesting point! what do you think of practice point? >> inequality in what sense? they're not a great -- [overlapping speakers] pgh >> holds on! >> they've even -- when -- when thatcher was forced to fight over the falklands, i don't think the brettish empire was going then. and i think -- i think it's important, david cameron is from the conservative party. but he's not like the conservatives we have in this country. and i think he and the president really got along on a number of issues around the world, and i think -- they really do reinforce each other. very positive relationship, and in a world as full of hot spots as this one, we need europe! and cameron -- >> do you realize that -- process of losing scotland, and there are those who think he is

responsible for scotland's declaration of independence. >> scotland probably doesn't upset that many british. >> what is left of the british isle? >> england, that's it! god save the king! >> special relationship but it is becoming less special bus for the same reasons pat just mentioned, they're becoming less. and if something happens with israel you'll see the two sides not getting along very well. >> one of the few relationships where there's a real chemistry between the prime minister of england and the president of the united states. obama lacks that kind of relationship with most of the world leaders, so this really helps him in that regard. >> you think as real as it's been portrayed? no yes, i think there is a real relationship visit to england. >> they're both intellectuals. they do approach these issues and probably talk them through

the government of sudan, led by the same three men who orchestrated the atrocities in darfur, have turned their bombs on the people. these are not military targets. these are innocent men, women and children. that is a fact. >> actor and activist george clooney appeared before the senate foreign relations committee this week to urge the united states, deal with china to end the bloody conflict in the sudan. over 19-year period, two million sudanese have been slain, with 500,000 fatalities last year alone. mr. clooney recently returned from sudan, where he saw the raw violence firsthand and took a video he made of the trip, which he showed to the senators when requested at the hearing. he told the senators one remedy

that might do much to end the violence would be to involve china. the people's republic has a huge appetite for oil, and oil is plentiful in both sudan and south sudan, two new countries formed by one former country and both now officially recognized by the united nations as of last year. china's demand and world demand, including that of the united states, would produce vast returns, that would go far to relax tensions between the two nations, previously mortal enemies of each other. >> we can take this moment and engage with china i think for the first time. it seems to me we could use this opportunity this window of opportunity before it gets too long, too lasending a high level envoy. >> question, what is the current status with oil in the sudan and china, and what do you think of the treatment of mr. mr. clooney being

arrested? south sue can is not producing the oil, north sudan is not pumping the oil out so it's stopped. >> pipeline trouble? a mock -- >> no, they're note getting along and they've just called it quits on the oil production. >> they can't get it out unless they're in unison? >> that's correct. and. >> okay. >> it's important because china uses although oil 6% comes from that region so they're taking it from the rest of the oil market. >> if they can put it on the market they would both become booming economies. >> improved economies and the government -- [overlapping speakers] >> why did clooney do that? >> he wants to elevate the issues, just the way the culture works in this country right now, people are paying attention to it. he was arrested on friday in front of the embassy of sudan and the twitter-verse exploded. that's important because it elevates in the public eye whatç

is happening in sudan and the public is weir of all these world crises. >> what about elevating africa. >> hillary did a good job in the morning, right? but are we paying enough attention to -- particularly in view of the chinese almost appropriation of that continent? >> clooney's point is that china's not boeing able to get its oil from that area has driven up gas prices. so he is saying we have a vest interest and now is the time to engage with:and bring peace in in region. i don't know that necessarily engaging with china -- maybe we ought to build a refinery there! [overlapping speakers] >> humanitarian crisis, that's what he wants to bring. >> clooney was arrested in washington on -- massachusetts avenue, near the sudanese embassy, over there. and a lot of dignitaries were with him. important people. do you think that takes really some of the bloom off the rose

of his having given the senate refer the matter to the senate? can it cheapen that effort or did it exalt that effort? >> there is a sense of people see what publicity voelk, but i do agree he's calling attention to one of most horrible situations in the world. >> right. >> the difference to between sudan and south sudan is arab versus african, christian in the south, muslim in the morning. it's tribal and you go across the 16th parallel, africa is in flames, nigeria has horrible problems for christians are being driven south ward. what we can do about it i don't know. >> should we care? >> yes, we should care! >> humanitarian point of view? >> if you can -- >> military? >> if you can help the people or do it diplomatically, i think you should, and i think clooney is doing a grad thing to say go the chinese. the chinese are totally -- >> remind that you we have a 15% poverty rate in the united

states? >> but look -- >> and we don't need to -- >> but your diplomats can work with the chinese to alleviate this, maybe. >> you think that chinese have -- [overlapping speakers] taken note of what is going? >> chinese don't give a hoot about anything except oil and resources no clooney is a serious involved, involved with darfur before this. that was a genocide. that upset a lot of people we didn't to enough or anything about it. and i think he's speaking to different populations when he goes on the hill he is talk to policymakers and when he gets arrested he is talking to the general public and wants to dru attention. and the twitter'verse pays attention. >> he set forth -- proposal he set forth in his testimony, before the senate, was to get china involved, get china buying the oil. if they -- choose to buy the oil, that wound will be healed between two countries because the money will pay off in the level of living. you understand? >> but china is prepared to buy

the oil. the question is can they get the two countries to work together to pump the oil and pipeline the oil? that's the problem. so it's a different issue. china will buy the oil from any country that will sell it to them. that's never an issue for china. >> the question is can you get -- [overlapping speakers] >> get them to reconcile? when they see the dollar signs flapping they plight want to do no china's money can buy oil from all around the world. >> is this proposal unrealistic or without merit? >> it's a proposal to i think it will have any real fech? no, i do not. >> exit question, clooney sat next to michelle obama the dinner. how likely has he made a first lady to a convert to his cause of having president obama dispatch a special envoy, highly probable or improbable? >> i think it basically is a god idea. i don't know what the downside it. >> i don't either but i don't know we need a special envoy. can't we just raise it in the diplomatic charges? >> i think that's a great

question and highly possible because he does have some announce on him and they're very swayed by hollywood. >> he is influenced by what his wife says. >> you do? >> i do. >> what he makes up his own monied? >> i don't know. i'm no there to see it. >> i think he makes up his own mind and he's also influenced by his wife so i'm not taking sides. >> look -- >> good idea to have the united states somehow or other try to resolve this issue. we have a lot of issues on our plate. it will be a very difficult issue to resolve. the chinese will not be helpful. >> i thinkwoman and obama can cut a deal with china. >> to do what -- >> to develop the sudan and everything becomes better in china and the pressure is off in that situation. everybody is happy forever after. >> china is doing what it can by buying

issue three, santorum's south. [audio not understandable] >> the conservative whom rick santorum is referring to is, of course, himself. alabama and mississippi just held primaries and santorum, of course, won both. the breakout -- alabama, santorum, 35%, mississippi -- santorum romney yet, despite santorum's strong showing in the south, romney won the delegate race. that's because hawaii and american samoa also have primaries and romney won both. in hawaii, romney won 9 delegates. santorum, 4, paul, 1. gingrich zero. in samoa, romney won all 6

delegates. tuesday's delegates total, romney 41, santorum 35, gingrich 24, paul 1. santorum is now framing the race as head to head. he versus romney. and santorum wants gingrich and paul off the track, in the remaining 26 primaries and caucuses. so their votes will go to him. now the pot is being split four ways. if it were a two-way race, santorum versus romney, santorum says he would beat romney. but newt gingrich says emphatically he is not quitting the primary track. >> the fact is in both states the conservative candidate has nearly 70% of the vote. >> so gingrich is staying in the race all the way to the republican national convention, august 27th to 30, five minutes from now, in tampa, florida, where the delegates and the super-delegates will select the candidate and where romney's ive spear -- are effect to

carriers who make the convention. question, the prongs seems to be if one of two conservatives in the race was out, the other would reap the dividend in the form of a united conservative vote. is that presumption warranted? if gingrich were to leave the race, all of that vote would go to as he presents the case santorum? >> no. it wouldn't all go. but probably most of it would. and it would really help santorum. but the question is, will santorum ever have enough support to win 1144 delegates, before mitt romney wins it? i say no. >> you focused your column on the examiner almost exclusively on santorum, within the past three columns you've written. what did you right from? >> probably in birmingham. >> no, i think -- yeah, birmingham, right. what did you think of santorum? what do you think of him? do you think he's ready for the presidency? you think that he has a kind of

presidential mien? >> he's gone from a candidate attracting two and three people to small diners in iowa and now he's the main alternative to the front-runner, mitt romney. so he has come a long way. but again the question is, can he win? does he have the money, the organization to really outdo mitt romney. >> philip, no he doesn't. but he is making romney look terrible. >> do u think the public is ready to vote for the united states president, rick santorum? i mean, assuming that he gets -- you do not? why? >> because some of his ideas are so shall we say conservative that the country will simply not support it. there's only one candidate in the republican party who has a chance to win the election, and that's mit mi. core of the party might support him but not the middle of the country and any republican needs the middle of the country to win. >> is there something missing from santorum in terms of his being, sitthin oval office? [overlapping speakers]

>> we never know that until somebody gets into the office. [overlapping speakers] ç >> is there a stature gap? i agree -- >> you mean -- [overlapping speakers] >> do we see as president now? but i do agree that he has listen, done an awful lot, come a long way and approaching that. but i do agree with mort, i think right now it's tougher for santorum to win. >> but the fact that romney didn't win mississippi and alabama couldn't defeat the right wing newt will drop out after illinois next tuesday, yes or no. >> no no. >> no! >> no, he stays in. >> the answer is no. happy st. patrick's day! hi, i'm rick steves, with more of the best of europe.

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